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Let's go through the roster.

Anakin Skywalker vs Dooku:

Attack One: "The first overhand chop of Skywalker's blade slid off Dooku's instinctive guard."

Attack Two: "The second bent Dooku's wrist."

Attack Three: "The third flash of blue forced Dooku's scarlet blade so far to the inside that his own lightsaber scorched his shoulder, and Dooku was forced to give ground."

Continued: "Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength - not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing."

---

Continued: "Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker- Skywalker was getting stronger. Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade. He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again. He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious. That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker, and Dooku decided that under these rather extreme circumstances, it was at least arguably permissible for a gentleman to cheat."

Other Opponents vs Dooku:

Mace Windu vs Dooku: http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3782452-blz13.jpg

Grievous vs Dooku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_Po12VyZw

Yoda vs Dooku: "Yoda's green blade caught the blow, holding the red lightsaber at bay, locking the two in a contest of strength, physical and of the Force."

---

As demonstrated, Anakin Skywalker is physically stronger than Mace Windu, Grievous, or Yoda.

More importantly, Anakin Skywalker's strength is greater than that of Darth Vader's (#suckitup).

Note that Grievous alone likely has greater physical strength than Darth Vader, and yet is nothing to Anakin Skywalker.

This fact is further confirmed by the Revenge of the Sith novel, which states he is the "strongest Jedi."

Anakin is a beast, yeah.
Not many(if any) characters have better feats strenght feats than he does.

Also, for those who strictly go by the movies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYT3ctPuVRw&t=1m31s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlRJLcy8NsA&t=3m37s

It's evident that Skywalker's strength is greater than Yoda's here, too.

Note that Yoda *does* use his strength in combat, as shown here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DI8kkR9G0Q&t=2m22s

Going only by the RotS novelization, that's really fair comparison.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Note that Grievous alone likely has greater physical strength than Darth Vader, and yet is nothing to Anakin Skywalker.I guffawed.

Yeah, GGs strenght is Sub-Kenobi, lol.

How is this suggesting that Skywalker is stronger just because Dooku eventually couldn't block his strikes directly? That suggests more so that Dooku was able to from the beginning, but he was worn down to where he couldn't to conserve energy.

I agree, except for the Yoda part. Anakin isn't syronger than Yoda. Yoda held back against Dooku. Yoda would've died against Palpatine if what he showed against Dooku was his maximum.

Originally posted by Azronger
I agree, except for the Yoda part. Anakin isn't syronger than Yoda. Yoda held back against Dooku. Yoda would've died against Palpatine if what he showed against Dooku was his maximum.

Lol

GG isn't stronger than Vader when Kenobi is bending his arm. mmm

Anakin >> Yoda > Kenobi > GG > Vader, duh.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Anakin >> Yoda > Sidious > Kenobi > GG > Vader, duh.

You missed one.


Also trash thread is trash.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Kenobi > GG > Vader,
I hope you're joking

Originally posted by Nephthys
You missed one.

Which one?

Sidious.

You should probably also include Sidious >>> Savage >> Dooku as well, just to form the full map.

Anakin indeed has beastly strength. But he ain't liftin' a grown man with one hand, by his throat.

I'd say strength goes

Sidious = Yoda > Savage = Vader (not sure who has more raw strength out of Vader and Savage but equal seems about right) > Anakin > Kenobi/Maul > Grievous > Ventress > Dooku

Originally posted by ILS
I'd say strength goes

Grievous > Ventress > Dooku

Wat

Originally posted by ILS
I'd say strength goes

Savage = Vader > Anakin


LMAO WUT

Originally posted by ILS
Savage = Vader > Anakin > Kenobi > Grievous > Ventress > Dooku

I shall pray for you...

Anakin did push back a magnaguard's arm mid punch too.

Again though, it said that Dooku no-longer tried to block Anakin's strikes head-on; not that he couldn't. It was an attempt to save energy. How do we know this wouldn't be the case if Dooku fought Windu or Yoda for a longer period of time? Maybe he was contending with their strength at the beginning while he could spend his reserves lavishly. Don't see how this means Anakin>Sidious/Yoda>Grievous in strength.

-

Originally posted by Kurk
Again though, it said that Dooku no-longer tried to block Anakin's strikes head-on; not that he couldn't. It was an attempt to save energy. How do we know this wouldn't be the case if Dooku fought Windu or Yoda for a longer period of time? Maybe he was contending with their strength at the beginning while he could spend his reserves lavishly. Don't see how this means Anakin>Sidious/Yoda>Grievous in strength.

No, you're reading it the wrong way.

The cause had nothing to do about saving energy.

Anakin's strikes were powerful enough that Dooku could not defend against them - all he could do is slant them to the side and retreat. It states he "no longer tried" because Dooku tried earlier. However, he was completely unsuccessful. Thus, as Anakin continued his attack, it got to a point where Dooku didn't have the strength to even attempt to directly block Anakin's blows (like he did against Yoda) or strike back (like he also did against Yoda). The fact that Dooku had to "respond his reserves lavishly" to avoid being outright killed (note the text doesn't state he uses it to defend himself as expected in a combat situation - he uses it to avoid absolute death) by Anakin's strength explicitly demonstrates a distinction between his other fights, where the text, comic, and visual representations do not remotely convey such. Hell, a distinction can be found by sheer virtue of the fact that Anakin's third blow was already bending Dooku's lightsaber back far enough to injure him. This was never the case for his confrontations against Yoda, Mace Windu, Grievous, etc.

Originally posted by Petrus
Anakin indeed has beastly strength. But he ain't liftin' a grown man with one hand, by his throat.
Or crushing a stormtroopers head with his bare hands

Originally posted by Rebel95
Or crushing a stormtroopers head with his bare hands

Grievous has shown the ability to do both of those things - and he's nothing to Anakin.

What are some of Anakin's strength feats other than his overpowering of Dooku? Just wondering

Almost breaking Kenobi's bones, ripping apart crab droids, etc.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
LMAO WUT Originally posted by MythLord
I shall pray for you... Originally posted by Azronger
Wat Enthralling arguments, gentlemen.

I'll address what I presume is causing the confusion:

Vader = Savage. Simply put, Savage hurling Dooku with the sheer weight of a strike, proving too physically powerful for Anakin and Obi-Wan combined to hold down, and his ragdolling of Ventress suggests to me in a contest of sheer strength he's about equal with Vader. They're about the same size, where Vader is more powerful, Savage's magic-enhanced muscle probably outdoes Vader's cybernetics, and in terms of feats Savage leaves me more impressed. I give Vader the benefit of the doubt because of the Vader-force that surrounds him.

Vader > Anakin. Thought this'd be a no-brainer. Vader is more powerful than Anakin with amped physicality from his cybernetics. Not factoring in Legends, for the record.

Kenobi > Grievous > Ventress > Dooku

I personally think Maul/Kenobi's augmentation affords them greater potential strength than Grievous's cybernetics, though in canon it's harder to say I suppose. Though, depending on the flow of the fight Grievous could be too strong for either.

Grievous is just... better than Ventress? She overcame him on Dathomir but think of the multitude of times Grievous has physically battered Obi-Wan.

Ventress being stronger than Dooku is because of how I interpreted their performances against Savage. People like to bring up Dooku throwing Kenobi and Ventress around without even approaching the possibility that, and take a deep breath before you hear this, that he used their momentum to throw them. Now exhale. Makes a little more sense now. Dooku is old as shit, and just isn't that strong.

Originally posted by ILS
Vader > Anakin. Thought this'd be a no-brainer. Vader is more powerful than Anakin with amped physicality from his cybernetics. Not factoring in Legends, for the record.

Anakin's stronger than Vader in strength in Legends and Canon.

Also, why are you listing Canon rankings, lol?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Anakin's stronger than Vader in strength in Legends and Canon.

Also, why are you listing Canon rankings, lol? thatsnicehoney.meme

Because we were discussing canon characters.

This thread is about Legends.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
This thread is about Legends. In that case I see your point regarding Anakin and Vader if by "Legends" you mean ignoring canon in favour of Legends. I don't really see the merit in doing that, but by all means, we're all allowed to pretend.

I'm not sure you realized this yet, but the entire board besides you still debates Legends and Canon characters as separate entities.

Which is fine and all, but when current, authoritative material is saying Vader > Anakin, and is only contradicted by older, non-canon material, I get the impression that it's probably a good idea to give one the higher merit. If Legends and Canon were actually separate entities, fair enough, but the fact is Canon is the official universe, what happened, and "Legends" is a collection of stories which stem from the main universe and aren't valid until stated otherwise.

Do whatever the hell you like, ignore what you want for the sake of discussion, but LotS is what I give precedent to even if I was factoring in Legends.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'm not sure you realized this yet, but the entire board besides you still debates Legends and Canon characters as separate entities.

Say whaa? Then why do I keep seeing Canon getting mixed in with Legends in all these VS threads n what not?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, you're reading it the wrong way.

The cause had nothing to do about saving energy.

Anakin's strikes were powerful enough that Dooku could not defend against them - all he could do is slant them to the side and retreat. It states he "no longer tried" because Dooku tried earlier. However, he was completely unsuccessful. Thus, as Anakin continued his attack, it got to a point where Dooku didn't have the strength to even attempt to directly block Anakin's blows (like he did against Yoda) or strike back (like he also did against Yoda). The fact that Dooku had to "respond his reserves lavishly" to avoid being outright killed (note the text doesn't state he uses it to defend himself as expected in a combat situation - he uses it to avoid absolute death) by Anakin's strength explicitly demonstrates a distinction between his other fights, where the text, comic, and visual representations do not remotely convey such. Hell, a distinction can be found by sheer virtue of the fact that Anakin's third blow was already bending Dooku's lightsaber back far enough to injure him. This was never the case for his confrontations against Yoda, Mace Windu, Grievous, etc. And in the movie we still see that he can't contend with his outright strength when he does block near the end and gets thrown back.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Let's go through the roster.

Anakin Skywalker vs Dooku:

Attack One: "The first overhand chop of Skywalker's blade slid off Dooku's instinctive guard."

Attack Two: "The second bent Dooku's wrist."

Attack Three: "The third flash of blue forced Dooku's scarlet blade so far to the inside that his own lightsaber scorched his shoulder, and Dooku was forced to give ground."

Continued: "Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength - not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing."

---

Continued: "Skywalker was all over him. The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker- Skywalker was getting stronger. Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade. He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again. He no longer even tried to strike back. Force exhaustion began to close down his perceptions, drawing his consciousness back down to his physical form, trapping him within his own skull until he could barely even feel the contours of the room around him; he dimly sensed stairs at his back, stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious. That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker, and Dooku decided that under these rather extreme circumstances, it was at least arguably permissible for a gentleman to cheat."

Other Opponents vs Dooku:

Mace Windu vs Dooku: http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3782452-blz13.jpg

Grievous vs Dooku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_Po12VyZw

Yoda vs Dooku: "Yoda's green blade caught the blow, holding the red lightsaber at bay, locking the two in a contest of strength, physical and of the Force."

---

As demonstrated, Anakin Skywalker is physically stronger than Mace Windu, Grievous, or Yoda.

More importantly, Anakin Skywalker's strength is greater than that of Darth Vader's (#suckitup).

Note that Grievous alone likely has greater physical strength than Darth Vader, and yet is nothing to Anakin Skywalker.

This fact is further confirmed by the Revenge of the Sith novel, which states he is the "strongest Jedi." So, Obi-Wan > Mace, Yoda, and Grievous?

ILS:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5451709-5000852263-giphy.gif

And if it's purely Canon, then:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5493512-5735808313-giphy.gif
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5495287-6089958853-giphy.gif
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5495285-2112468869-giphy.gif

Azronger:
https://media.giphy.com/media/TeQdVb13M6t9K/giphy.gif

Anyway it's safe to say that the OP quote is more of an indication of Anakin's massive growth in power and strength as opposed to Dooku being weak.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Almost breaking Kenobi's bones, ripping apart crab droids, etc.
Was that during their Mustafar duel?

Originally posted by Kurk
Azronger:
https://media.giphy.com/media/TeQdVb13M6t9K/giphy.gif

Lol. Is this the only thing you have as a rebuttal?

Originally posted by Azronger
Lol. Is this the only thing you have as a rebuttal?


It's a pretty solid response proving that Anakin was getting stronger through the duel.

Also when Dooku blocks both Kenobi and Skywalker he had leverage and positioning on his side.

@Azronger I am speaking purely in terms of Canon. What are your gifs supposed to prove? Everyone and their mother pushes each other back in a blade lock (the best example being Ahsoka pushing back Grievous).

Originally posted by ILS
@Azronger I am speaking purely in terms of Canon. What are your gifs supposed to prove? Everyone and their mother pushes each other back in a blade lock (the best example being Ahsoka pushing back Grievous).
It's pretty clear that Anakin was overpowering Dooku at the end of the fight

Originally posted by ILS
but the fact is Canon is the official universe, what happened, and "Legends" is a collection of stories which stem from the main universe and aren't valid until stated otherwise.

Force and Destiny is a Legends source. It's content involving how Legends works applies specifically about legends within the Legends community itself, not the overall Star Wars multiverse.

Originally posted by Kurk
And in the movie we still see that he can't contend with his outright strength when he does block near the end and gets thrown back.
So, you agree?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So, you agree?
Yeah why not. I wasn't paying close enough attention when I skimmed through.

Originally posted by Kurk
Yeah why not. I wasn't paying close enough attention when I skimmed through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A&t=3m54s

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A&t=3m54s
https://youtu.be/d1uJWqX0Guw?t=1m1s

Originally posted by Rebel95
Was that during their Mustafar duel?

Yes.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Was that during their Mustafar duel? But that completely ignores the fact that later on in the fight, Kenobi and Anakin were evenly matched in a contest of strength.

When? ^

Originally posted by Rebel95
It's pretty clear that Anakin was overpowering Dooku at the end of the fight Indeed. Dookie bladelocking him thus doesn't prove much.

That GIF was when Anakin was enraged, lol.

Dooku holding the edge over Anakin in their earlier saberlock and matching Yoda in a saberlock in AotC whilst diverting strength to collapse the pillar is pretty damn good. He also overpowers Ventress in a saberlock in TCW repeatedly.

In fairness, Dooku does use opportunity/leverage etc. in most of his strength feats. Not the ones I mentioned above, though.

There's also their fight on Naboo where Anakin seemed physically stronger, even though Dooku was fighting defensively.

Yep. One can conclude that both of them grew stronger, though. Still, I'm not too sure how to it's possible that Dooku's growth is in excess of Anakin's, which is the only conclusion that can be drawn from comparing S4 to RotS. But I guess that's just TCW.

Nah, Dooku is just outmatched by Anakin in a 1v1.

Which puts Anakin above Vader, who's only beaten scrubs and driven back Ahsoka on a potential DS nexus.

I didn't say otherwise, anyway.

As of Season 4? Sure thing darling. Ahsoka would probably be his match at that point.

Regardless that's completely besides the point, not sure what compelled you to bring it up.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
There's also their fight on Naboo where Anakin seemed physically stronger, even though Dooku was fighting defensively. and then there is the other fight with magnaguards where Dooku disarms him and matches his bladelocks without much trouble.

Originally posted by Kurk
and then there is the other fight with magnaguards where Dooku disarms him and matches his bladelocks without much trouble.


With Magnaguards is the key point there.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's a pretty solid response proving that Anakin was getting stronger through the duel.

That didn't need proving. And is irrelevant anyway, since we are talking about standard RotS Anakin, not Zonakin. That countered nothing I posted.



http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5495287-6089958853-giphy.gif

In regards to Kenobi, yes, but he blocks Anakin's downward vertical strike head on, one-handed, with no visible issue. And again:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5493512-5735808313-giphy.gif

Originally posted by ILS
@Azronger I am speaking purely in terms of Canon. What are your gifs supposed to prove? Everyone and their mother pushes each other back in a blade lock (the best example being Ahsoka pushing back Grievous).

Um, Dooku blocked his attacks head on. What do you mean it doesn't prove anything? If Ahsoka pushed Grievous back in a blade lock, then good for her.

Originally posted by Azronger
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/5495287-6089958853-giphy.gifHe off-balances Kenobi then slides his blade upward, catching the tip of Anakin's weapon before it can complete its arc. Leverage and positioning, yeah.

On the other hand, Anakin smashes away Dooku's guard just moment later.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
With Magnaguards is the key point there. not really, unless you want me to believe that 4 magnaguards was enough to weaken Anakin to where Dooku can outmuscle him.

There is also the Oba Diah fight when Anakin power attacks Dooku and he easily blocks it and then pushes Anakin back.

Originally posted by Kurk
not really, unless you want me to believe that 4 magnaguards was enough to weaken Anakin to where Dooku can outmuscle him.


We saw them fight one on one later that same season. Dooku was being driven back the whole fight.

Originally posted by Kurk
There is also the Oba Diah fight when Anakin power attacks Dooku and he easily blocks it and then pushes Anakin back.


Dooku was outmanoeuvring them both in that fight.

But Anakin seems to hold back when fighting with Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
We saw them fight one on one later that same season. Dooku was being driven back the whole fight. Right, there was no need for him to be on the offensive though; he was simply trying to escape with Palpatine.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dooku was outmanoeuvring them both in that fight.

But Anakin seems to hold back when fighting with Obi-Wan.
regardless of what happened later that scene happened.

Originally posted by Kurk
Right, there was no need for him to be on the offensive though; he was simply trying to escape with Palpatine.


Well he wasn't actually trying to escape with Palpatine. He was just pretending that's his goal. The real purpose was for him to fight Ani.

Yes he was fighting defensively. But he still ended up being booted onto the stairs with only his Lightning and TK saving him from being throttled.


Originally posted by Kurk


regardless of what happened later that scene happened.

You can't just cling to one instance like that. Anakin seems to have the physical strength edge much more often than not.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well he wasn't actually trying to escape with Palpatine. He was just pretending that's his goal. The real purpose was for him to fight Ani.

Yes he was fighting defensively. But he still ended up being booted onto the stairs with only his Lightning and TK saving him from being throttled.




You can't just cling to one instance like that. Anakin seems to have the physical strength edge much more often than not.
He's an old ass man what'd you expect?

Lol so what you arguing about?

Anakin got mad and overpowered Dooku. Stop overanalyzing everything lol

https://media.giphy.com/media/lA6dFpqEVl600/giphy.gif

And he does it again a few seconds after this but it's a little hard to see in a gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/fS5KEiARyRK1O/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/JtszDH1zMSusg/giphy.gif

^ He's just outfighting him in those scans. Aside from the first one nothing hints at Dooku using greater strength.

Except to disarm someone with literally slicing their limbs off, you need to force their lightsabers out of their hands. Something impossible without strength.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ He's just outfighting him in those scans. Aside from the first one nothing hints at Dooku using greater strength.
First one he pushes back one-handed against Anakin's two-hand power attack

Second one he pushes back against his blade before slicing at him

Third one he disarms him pretty clearly with one big sweeping motion. Don't tell me that none of those maneuvers can be done without strength.

Canon Dooku ~ Canon Anakin in strength

Also found this

https://media.giphy.com/media/14yBPeXe3i1rR6/giphy.gif

He catches the inside of anakin's arm and pushes him back forcing him onto his knees. Greater strength confirmed

No shit Dooku is superior to early TCW Anakin, lmfao.

Even so, losing to a weak assed Sith like Dooku who can't even take a ragtag pirate gang is embarressing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No shit Dooku is superior to early TCW Anakin, lmfao. season 4 is early TCW?

It's in that same season that Anakin fights Dooku both times on Naboo

The Oba Diah fights happens season 6 and we see the whoopin Dooku gives him there, so you're logic still doesn't make any sense.

My logic is that Anakin vs Dooku's early fights are irrelevant when RotS Anakin is so much greater.

It's like debating Revan vs Vader, but then citing Revan's abilities on the first level of the game.

Originally posted by cdtm
Even so, losing to a weak assed Sith like Dooku who can't even take a ragtag pirate gang is embarressing. Those same ragtag pirates put Maul on his ass . Dooku was smart not to engage unarmed while completely surrounded. Filoni recognizes that sheer numbers was Dooku's own method to defeat the jedi in AotC
https://youtu.be/4o1fd-M3aBo?t=18s

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
My logic is that Anakin vs Dooku's early fights are irrelevant when RotS Anakin is so much greater.

It's like debating Revan vs Vader, but then citing Revan's abilities on the first level of the game. Except that I wan't trying prove that Dooku is stronger than Anakin in RotS...

This was directed towards Darth Thor

He's able to contend with it for some time; it's not an utter stomp

It's an utter stomp. In just three strikes, Anakin can push Dooku's blade so far inward it literally slices Dooku, lmfao.

It's the biggest strength disparity I ever seen in a fight.

Umm, even in TCW, the Naboo fight with the Magnaguards has Anakin clearly being the stronger of the two.

Dooku disarming Anakin using a lightwhip is not evidence against that lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's an utter stomp. In just three strikes, Anakin can push Dooku's blade so far inward it literally slices Dooku, lmfao.

It's the biggest strength disparity I ever seen in a fight. Then why did Dooku last as long as he did? He contended with it; as it say, slanting the strikes away for example. It's not like when Savage made contact with his saber and Dookku flew 20 feet across the room. Originally posted by SunRazer
Umm, even in TCW, the Naboo fight with the Magnaguards has Anakin clearly being the stronger of the two.

Dooku disarming Anakin using a lightwhip is not evidence against that lol.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif

Dooku makes contact with the inside of his arm and pushes it away. Nothing to do with weapon disparity. Watch it at .25 speed.

The Naboo fight with the multiple magnaguards is not indicative of anything in Anakin's favor other than his endurance. Dooku meets all of his black-locks without trouble and disarms him with his upperbody strength.

As for the second fight, yes Anakin overwhelms him at certain times, but Dooku was purposefully retreating with the chancellor the entire time as required by the plot.

Umm, sorry, but the grip of a weapon matters. Anakin's stance and grip of the lightship affects it.

You can't be serious. In the Naboo fight, you clearly see Anakin pushing Dooku's blade back in the bladelock, and him also breaking the bladelock by pushing Dooku's blade down.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Umm, sorry, but the grip of a weapon matters. Anakin's stance and grip of the lightship affects it.

You can't be serious. In the Naboo fight, you clearly see Anakin pushing Dooku's blade back in the bladelock, and him also breaking the bladelock by pushing Dooku's blade down.
except that doesn't matter like I said because he struck his arm; not to mention Anakin went down on his knees because of it.


Same can be said for Dooku

I looked at it. True, but that was by surprise. Doesn't count.

Dooku never once overpowers Anakin in bladelocks in the Naboo fight by virtue of strength.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I looked at it. True, but that was by surprise. Doesn't count.

Dooku never once overpowers Anakin in bladelocks in the Naboo fight by virtue of strength. Well of course not silly goose. Makashi is not about generating kinetic attacks like djem so is. Being able to match Anakin's locks shows sufficient strength by itself.

Umm, no, it's a bladelock. You use strength regardless of your form.

Dooku never once matched Anakin in locks anyway. He has his locks broken and his saber pushed back.

https://media.giphy.com/media/lA6dFpqEVl600/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/y1iH0dZzxHFOE/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/fS5KEiARyRK1O/giphy.gif

Wrong again

Prepare for sunrazer's excuses and double standards to align with his own self bias. Nicely done, my apprentice.

One of those gifs isn't even strength related... And the other two are pre-RotS where Anakin was overwhelming Tyranus pretty convincingly with strength.

Originally posted by Kurk


Wrong again

Please tell me which of your GIFs was related to the Naboo fight with the Magnaguards.

Or did you suffer a bout of amnesia when you made your post?

Originally posted by SunRazer


Dooku never once matched Anakin in locks anyway. He has his locks broken and his saber pushed back.

Yep. And if you payed attention to the context of the discussion, you'd realize I was talking about the Naboo fight, which we were discussing the entire time.

Originally posted by MythLord
One of those gifs isn't even strength related... And the other two are pre-RotS where Anakin was overwhelming Tyranus pretty convincingly with strength. I'm only discussing TCW Dooku lol. They're all strength related. He's pushing away Anakin's blade; but according to SunRazer Dooku never has.

Those gifs are pretty clear-cut and convincing imo.

Actually they are all circumstantial, but hey ho.

Originally posted by Kurk
https://media.giphy.com/media/lA6dFpqEVl600/giphy.gifDooku's footwork is a lot stronger here, Anakin's legs are more bunched up whereas the Count is poised to spring back.
Not really overpowering Anakin here, he's running his blade along the length of Skywalker's, regardless Dooku's arms are contracted, Anakin's are fully extended. #Leverage.
More of a disarming flourish that brute force application here, but even so forgivable considering Anakin was clearly off-balanced by the presence of the magnaguards.Originally posted by Kurk
Also found this

https://media.giphy.com/media/14yBPeXe3i1rR6/giphy.gif

He catches the inside of anakin's arm and pushes him back forcing him onto his knees. Greater strength confirmed Nah the fact that Anakin's is using a lightwhip here is important, he's not applying his strength to block a physical strike. Or in other words he was caught off-guard. I also imagine he would be much less in his element using a foreign weapon.

Like I said, circumstantial examples, and in general, there are usually two many factors at play in regards to these one-off clashes to make reasonable conclusions, and when Dooku is notorious for using footwork, leverage etc. to gain an upper hand, its a pointless exercise.

On the other hand fatiguing and overpowering Dooku over a consistent period of fighting its a much greater indicator of superior stamina and combative strength in a holistic sense:

https://j.gifs.com/y8MvPw.gif



And the fact Dooku was on the defensive is not really an excuse.

^

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Dooku's footwork is a lot stronger here, Anakin's legs are more bunched up whereas the Count is poised to spring back.
Not really overpowering Anakin here, he's running his blade along the length of Skywalker's, regardless Dooku's arms are contracted, Anakin's are fully extended. #Leverage.
More of a disarming flourish that brute force application here, but even so forgivable considering Anakin was clearly off-balanced by the presence of the magnaguards.Nah the fact that Anakin's is using a lightwhip here is important, he's not applying his strength to block a physical strike. Or in other words he was caught off-guard. I also imagine he would be much less in his element using a foreign weapon.

Like I said, circumstantial examples, and in general, there are usually two many factors at play in regards to these one-off clashes to make reasonable conclusions, and when Dooku is notorious for using footwork, leverage etc. to gain an upper hand, its a pointless exercise.

On the other hand fatiguing and overpowering Dooku over a consistent period of fighting its a much greater indicator of superior stamina and combative strength in a holistic sense:

https://j.gifs.com/y8MvPw.gif



And the fact Dooku was on the defensive is not really an excuse.
You ignored the other naboo gif when Anakin attacks him from behind

Oba Diah 1.) What you said is going to be dependent on individual forms. Lack of mobility is a weakness of Djem So while footwork is core to Makashi. Had Dooku been using both hands I might have agreed, but Anakin is using a double grip overhead power-attack against a one-handed Dooku who doesn't have a problem maintaining the block and pushing back one-handed.

Oba Diah 2.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but lightsabers don't behave like traditional metal swords; you can't really run your blade against another since the friction is so great. So either Dooku overcame an incredibly large amount of friction force, or he pushed Anakin's arms back. You tell me.

Naboo 1.) This wasn't a flick of the wrist disarment, He had to force Anakin's arms around 3/4 of the way.

Zygerria : Nice beating around the bush. If you watch that scene on youtube at .25 speed, you will see that Anakin tries to throw some sort of hooking punch and Dooku catches the inside of his arm and pushes him back.
https://is01.ezphotoshare.com/2016/11/22/Kq5fyG.png

Naboo 2.) This helps as Anakin power-attacked him 3 times on the floor yet his guard remained in place even at a gravitational disadvantage. If Anakin was at the level he was at RotS, Dooku's arm would have collapsed. Being on the defense in not an excuse, but a reason to explain why the fight happened as it did. His goal was to leave with the Chancellor; it only makes sense considering that's what the past 2 episodes were about.

I mean, in the gif Beni posted Anakin is 2-hand power attacking from above and Dooku is still managing to block him with one hand. Someone going ham on you two handed and you're blocking them with one, personally I think thats as clear as it gets for proving that you're as strong or stronger than someone.

By that logic, ever two handed fighting style would be clearly superior to every one handed one, but when we're dealing with lighter swords and unarmored opponents, the opposite is closer to being true.

I don't think it's arguable that a 2 handed grip gives you more power in your swings. Dooku's blocking that with 1 hand, and in a shit position so theres no "leverage" excuse here.

He couldn't block it for for a sustained period though. Hence him being driven back and booted to the floor.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I mean, in the gif Beni posted Anakin is 2-hand power attacking from above and Dooku is still managing to block him with one hand. Someone going ham on you two handed and you're blocking them with one, personally I think thats as clear as it gets for proving that you're as strong or stronger than someone.

That would be the case if it weren't for Dooku lavishly expending his Force reserves to actually do that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That would be the case if it weren't for Dooku lavishly expending his Force reserves to actually do that. Originally posted by Darth Thor
He couldn't block it for for a sustained period though. Hence him being driven back and booted to the floor. He wasn't attacking at all though except for that one bland grunt yell swing. He was blocking everything just fine before that.

We see what Dooku's capable of when he really wants to go on the offensive as seen on Oba Diah (and the Oba Diah fight takes place season 6 vs Naboo season 4 when Anakin is supposedly stronger) .

Originally posted by SunRazer
That would be the case if it weren't for Dooku lavishly expending his Force reserves to actually do that.
RotS != TCW

It's obvious that he was in that scenario as well.

Originally posted by Kurk
You ignored the other naboo gif when Anakin attacks him from behindNot sure what you're referring to.

Quite, Dooku's form is of advantage in this situation. Leverage and footwork are his bread and butter. Regardless we can pick over the details ad nauseum but the fact remains Dooku has struggled with Anakin's strength when these factors are absent, for example:

https://i.imgflip.com/1etsng.gif https://i.imgflip.com/1etsof.gif

In both of those instances Dooku is being overpowered with no strings attached.

I wouldn't know, not sure why that would be the case. Regardless, the presence of leverage is the key point here.

Which is why I said more of, but he is employing an element of finesse here. But again, Anakin was off-balanced.

Beating around the bush? Lol. And no he's not trying to hook him with a punch, something that should be obvious given 1. he's flailing a whip 2. Dooku's face is nowhere close. Regardless, it doesn't make the slightest difference, he wasn't aiming to meet Dooku's attack.

Anakin is still stronger, and you'll have to elaborate, because leaving with the Chancellor doesn't require one get kicked to the ground, in fact I'd rather think when trying to escape you might attempt to avoid that.

But sure, let's consider the context. This duel was a rehersal, orchestrated by Palpatine or rather Darth Sidious for the sole purpose of seeing if Anakin was strong enough to defeat Dooku and take his place, and evidently he was satisfied with the results:

http://i.imgur.com/x3lwn12.png

From the viewer's perspective it being a foreshadowing of Anakin overpowering him in RotS. Go figure.

Originally posted by Kurk

We see what Dooku's capable of when he really wants to go on the offensive as seen on Oba Diah (and the Oba Diah fight takes place season 6 vs Naboo season 4 when Anakin is supposedly stronger) .


Or that was a high end performance for Dooku. In any case, what major hit did he land on Anakin on Oba Diah?

He's probably to that kick to the knees that made Anakin stagger back, lol.

And the roundhouse kick to the back of his head which sent him tumbling near the end of the fight

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not sure what you're referring to.

This:
https://media.giphy.com/media/y1iH0dZzxHFOE/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Quite, Dooku's form is of advantage in this situation. Leverage and footwork are his bread and butter. Regardless we can pick over the details ad nauseum but the fact remains Dooku has struggled with Anakin's strength when these factors are absent, for example:

https://i.imgflip.com/1etsng.gif https://i.imgflip.com/1etsof.gif

In both of those instances Dooku is being overpowered with no strings attached.
Maybe the first one, but putting out the lights to spring the magnaguard trap means what? Remember Dooku's goal was to capture Anakin wanted to kill.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I wouldn't know, not sure why that would be the case. Regardless, the presence of leverage is the key point here.

Which is why I said more of, but he is employing an element of finesse here. But again, Anakin was off-balanced.

There is no proof of him being off-balanced. It was clear he didn't perceive the droids to be a major threat since he kept flinging them around and bum-rushing Dooku.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Beating around the bush? Lol. And no he's not trying to hook him with a punch, something that should be obvious given 1. he's flailing a whip 2. Dooku's face is nowhere close. Regardless, it doesn't make the slightest difference, he wasn't aiming to meet Dooku's attack.
Because a smart person would try to attack someone with the butt or base of a whip, right... The whip was being held vertically with his knuckles aimed which isn't the position you hold when you're striking someone. His arm was obviously close enough for Dooku to reach his forearm so quit the nonsense about it not being a punch or melee hit.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Anakin is still stronger, and you'll have to elaborate, because leaving with the Chancellor doesn't require one get kicked to the ground, in fact I'd rather think when trying to escape you might attempt to avoid that.

But sure, let's consider the context. This duel was a rehersal, orchestrated by Palpatine or rather Darth Sidious for the sole purpose of seeing if Anakin was strong enough to defeat Dooku and take his place, and evidently he was satisfied with the results:

http://i.imgur.com/x3lwn12.png

From the viewer's perspective it being a foreshadowing of Anakin overpowering him in RotS. Go figure.

For all we know Sidious is smiling seeing how aggressive Anakin is and how he draws from dark-energy. Strangling someone in battle isn't a very jedi-like thing to do. You're going to get knocked down in fight if all you do is retreat and try to block since your attacker doesn't have to worry about your own offense; simple as that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
That would be the case if it weren't for Dooku lavishly expending his Force reserves to actually do that.

You just made that up though, so that is the case, lol.

Nah. S4 has Anakin being clearly stronger than Dooku in bladelocks. It's obvious that Dooku needs to draw on his reserves to a much greater extent than Anakin if he wants to block a two-handed blow from Anakin who also has significant momentum on his side, with just one hand behind him.

Oh my mistake, I hadn't realised that you'd decided it was obvious. I guess it really isn't the case then. Sorry.

Thats total bs, as Kurk has shown Dooku can block Anakin behind his back with one hand and still push him back and forced him back on Obah Dai again with 1 hand and in RotS he blocked him and Obi-Wan at once with 1 hand and pushed Anakin back so hard that he almost fell over, again with 1 hand. You don't get to decide something just because you want to, in spite of the majority of examples going against you.

Even if Dooku was drawing more heavily on his power than Anakin, the fact that he was doing it with 1 hand is still undeniable.

Of course it's undeniable that he performed the showing - I can see it with my own eyes. Suggesting that it means Dooku is stronger than Anakin is indeed incorrect since we've seen Anakin overpower Dooku twice in saberlocks in S4. This can only be explained by Dooku drawing more strongly on his reserves than Anakin in this case.

Majority of examples? Don't be silly. The one on Oba Diah was Dooku kicking Anakin's legs to unbalance him, and in most of your examples, Dooku was taking advantage of leverage to overcome Anakin. He isn't better in straight-up strength, as Shadow Warrior clearly proves.

On the other hand, Anakin overpowering Dooku in saberlocks makes him stronger than Yoda, who wasn't able to do that in over ten seconds of bladelocking with the Count in AotC. And Yoda is most definitely stronger than the Count.

Of course, Dooku wasn't outright overpowered by Yoda in terms of strength, because he drew more on his reserves than Yoda did, which is why he's exhausted by the end of the fight and Yoda isn't.

I got cut off and had to end my edit there. I'd assumed you'd know what I meant. It's undeniable that the factor is a strong indicator of a comparison between them. If, and that is an if because all we're basing it on is your speculation, he was drawing heavily on the force, thats balanced by him only using a single hand to do it. And I only recall one time when Anakin had a slight upper hand in a saber lock, which can be explained as him being particularly angry at the time or drawing heavily on the Force. Meanwhile, Dooku performed all the feats I mentioned and had the upper hand in the saberlock in RotS. In terms of standard showings, Dooku has the upper hand more than Anakin does.


No it isn't:

https://media.giphy.com/media/lA6dFpqEVl600/giphy.gif

Dooku's in a lower position to Anakin and still manages to push him far back. And that leverage excuse is so bogus. It's just your amateur interpretations based on eyeballing it.

Lmao @ Anakin being stronger than Yoda. What a crock of absolute shit. Maybe Anakin was just drawing heavily on the Force while Yoda and Dooku weren't, lmao. Again, Dooku had the upper hand in RotS, the time when both were at their peak.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I got cut off and had to end my edit there. I'd assumed you'd know what I meant. It's undeniable that the factor is a strong indicator of a comparison between them. If, and that is an if because all we're basing it on is your speculation, he was drawing heavily on the force, thats balanced by him only using a single hand to do it. And I only recall one time when Anakin had a slight upper hand in a saber lock, which can be explained as him being particularly angry at the time. Meanwhile, Dooku performed all the feats I mentioned and had the upper hand in the saberlock in RotS. In terms of standard showings, Dooku has the upper hand more than Anakin does.

The fact that he does it with only one hand is the reason I said he would've compensated for it by drawing on his reserves more. Even two-handed, Dooku was overpowered in saberlocks twice in Shadow Warrior, and those represent situations where Dooku can't use things like leverage to his advantage.



Then that's just another example of Dooku drawing more on his reserves. The leverage thing isn't bogus, it's an integral part of his fighting style.

It's directly stated in RotS that Dooku's Makashi doesn't have the ability to meet Anakin's Djem So head-on without him extensively drawing on his reserves. Anakin's clearly stronger.



Other than being supported by sources?



Yes, because you don't draw on your reserves heavily during bladelocks at all, lmfao.



At his peak, Anakin trounced Dooku, lmao.

Anyways, Dooku only ever held the upper hand whilst he was making Anakin break down emotionally with his Dun Moch.

Originally posted by Kurk
This:
https://media.giphy.com/media/y1iH0dZzxHFOE/giphy.gifYeah Dooku had the high ground. Afterwards though Anakin drives him back, forcing Dooku to use TK to throw him off.

In both Dooku is clearly being overpowered given in both his blade his being forced down. The rest of your comment is incoherent blather.

If they weren't a threat Anakin would not have been tagged by one of them. Fact is fighting five opponents at once is going to drive one to distraction.

facepalm

He's not trying to hit Dooku with the base of the whip, Dooku's face is nowhere near. He's flailing it from another strike, which yes he does by swinging it vertically. Hence why the trajectory of the whip is as such:

http://i.imgur.com/UqLIpAW.png

i.e. headed for the Count.

I'm sure it is, but when we consider the purposes of the fight it's clear he's pleased by Anakin's superiority as well.



You mean like Kenobi did on Mustafar? What a nonsense claim.

Originally posted by SunRazer
On the other hand, Anakin overpowering Dooku in saberlocks makes him stronger than Yoda, who wasn't able to do that in over ten seconds of bladelocking with the Count in AotC. And Yoda is most definitely stronger than the Count. Hah, or not, this assumes that Yoda was trying to overpower Dooku which given he engages him in dialogue doesn't appear to be the case. The junior novel also indicates this.

Regardless I've never put too much stock in the duration of blade locks anyway, not when they are so often used as mere plot devices for conversation. For example Anakin & Dooku's bladelock in RotS lasts even longer than Yoda's. So I guess he got weaker??

However if S4 Anakin was stronger than Yoda, how is it Ventress blocked this:

https://i.imgflip.com/1euugx.gif

And was able to do this?

https://i.imgflip.com/1euui2.gif

Originally posted by Kurk
Remember Dooku's goal was to capture Anakin wanted to kill.





When did you decide to make this up? Anakin going for the kill? He didn't seek Dooku out, and was simply fighting for his own life.


Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah Dooku had the high ground. Afterwards though Anakin drives him back, forcing Dooku to use TK to throw him off.




Yes only Dooku's Force powers gave him the advantage over Skywalker in S4.


Originally posted by Beniboybling


However if S4 Anakin was stronger than Yoda, how is it Ventress blocked this:

https://i.imgflip.com/1euugx.gif

And was able to do this?

https://i.imgflip.com/1euui2.gif


Well to be fair those were both S2 and S3. And the S3 one was against a rage enhanced Ventress, with Skywalker probably holding back on his rage with Kenobi being there.

Thor

Anakin was clearly trying his hardest to kill Dooku. If he was fighting for his life he would have dispatched the droids first instead of ignoring them and bum rushing Dooku who was walking away in the opposite direction with his saber deactivated.

1.) It was clearly a kick to the abdomen not the knees lol (in other words the center of his mass)

https://media.giphy.com/media/H0wPNJYqPOLqo/giphy.gif

2.) Kick which sent Anakin tumbling

https://media.giphy.com/media/5hy4s8LD7TEAg/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well to be fair those were both S2 and S3. And the S3 one was against a rage enhanced Ventress, with Skywalker probably holding back on his rage with Kenobi being there. They're both from the same duel in S3 hon, the gap between that and Season 4 bring minuscule.

And rage enchanced? OK, as I recall she was actually injured. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
They're both from the same duel in S3 hon,


Ah I see

Originally posted by Beniboybling
the gap between that and Season 4 bring minuscule.


Not sure about that. Think there was definitely a difference Pre-Mortis and Post-Mortis given his fights.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

And rage enchanced? OK, as I recall she was actually injured. mmm


Well she did manage to force choke them both (although Kenobi also seemed injured in the crash).

In any case it was clear the Jedi were holding back.


Originally posted by Kurk
Thor

Anakin was clearly trying his hardest to kill Dooku. If he was fighting for his life he would have dispatched the droids first instead of ignoring them and bum rushing Dooku who was walking away in the opposite direction with his saber deactivated.


It wouldn't have made a difference. If he concentrated on the droids Dooku made that have taken him out from behind.

He was outnumbered and fighting for his life. He had no idea Dooku was going to take him prisoner.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not sure about that. Think there was definitely a difference Pre-Mortis and Post-Mortis given his fights.Nah.

That was for a few seconds.

Nah.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nah.



Well let's see, his fights against Dooku post Mortis vs his fights against Savage, Ventress and urmm Hondo pre-Mortis. He was supppsed to be getting BG more powerful every season, but we have confirmation of a vast improvement from S5 to ROTS.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nah.

That was for a few seconds.



Was choking both of them though, simultaneously. And it was only stopped when the ship got hit. That's like some serious power up.




Originally posted by Beniboybling


Nah.

They like disarmed her and told her to surrender at least twice. Of course they were holding back.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well let's see, his fights against Dooku post Mortis vs his fights against Savage, Ventress and urmm Hondo pre-Mortis. He was supppsed to be getting BG more powerful every season, but we have confirmation of a vast improvement from S5 to ROTS.Hondo was before the timeskip. Not really seeing the what his performances against Ventress or Savage are supposed to show. On the other hand nowhere is it stated that Mortis made him stronger and you'll have to provide a source on these supposed season power ups.

For that brief moment yes, not the entire fight.

From killing her, that doesn't mean they were going easy.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Hondo was before the timeskip. Not really seeing the what his performances against Ventress or Savage are supposed to show. On the other hand nowhere is it stated that Mortis made him stronger and you'll have to provide a source on these supposed season power ups.



Noted about the time skip, so we at least agree S4 Anakin is >> S1 and S2 Ani.

Because Dooku > Savage and Ventress combined.

His greatest Force feat was on Mortis so I'm using that as a cut off point. But excluding Mortis, S4 Anakin just generally looks way better than S3 going by the fights I've mentioned. He's also got that Force feat collapsing that underwater structure in S4. And S5 Ani Force choked Ventress.




Originally posted by Beniboybling


For that brief moment yes, not the entire fight.



Huge feat though. And they were looking right at her. Wasn't like when Savage did it to Dooku and Ventress because they were concentrating on each other at the time.



Originally posted by Beniboybling


From killing her, that doesn't mean they were going easy.


Shows their level of restraint when they disarmed her not once but twice, yet didn't give her even a slight slash on the arm or something to stop her.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because Dooku > Savage and Ventress combined.Through his mastery over the Force, yeah.

He doesn't really.

Neither of which prove anything.

Gotcha, it's still not relevant.

A slight slash on the arm? With a lightsaber? Lmao. But yes they are Jedi, well spotted.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Hah, or not, this assumes that Yoda was trying to overpower Dooku which given he engages him in dialogue doesn't appear to be the case. The junior novel also indicates this.

The junior novel says that Yoda intended to stop Dooku. Overpowering him in a bladelock to disarm him is a perfectly good way of doing that.

And the script has Yoda trying to decapitate Dooku.



Yeah, because Dooku was taunting Anakin and making him emotionally unbalanced. The script outright says that Anakin regains his composure afterwards and drives Dooku back - hence it's clear that Anakin had lost his composure during the saberlock. And there's an equivalent scene in the novel.



That was an enraged Ventress and it wasn't S4 Anakin. It's the same reason as why Maul was able to strain Sidious. You'll note Ventress was still being driven back in the first one.

And even if that wasn't the case, my point doesn't change - she would've simply been drawing on her reserves more and thus would've exhausted herself faster.

Sunrazer and his hypocrisy continues.

no matter how super powerful anakin is, he still remains an absolute pile of shit as a character except TCW btw

Originally posted by JKBart
no matter how super powerful anakin is, he still remains an absolute pile of shit as a character except TCW btw

Originally posted by SunRazer
The junior novel says that Yoda intended to stop Dooku. Overpowering him in a bladelock to disarm him is a perfectly good way of doing that.The junior novel says that Yoda wasn't trying to overpower Dooku, instead he renders his weapon "immovable."

And in that same script Yoda stomps, so?

Fair enough.

S3 and S4 exist within the same timeframe and "she was enraged" is a flimsy excuse. There is only one point in the fight in which her "rage" appears to translate into a significant leap in ability, for the rest of the engagement she is instead injured and yes, desperate, but the latter is not sufficient to allow her to deal with strength in excess of the most powerful Jedi and Sith in mythos lmao.

So Ventress can strain Sidious too now?

Not the point, point is that level of strength should have floored her.

That doesn't account for her performances at all, nothing short of a Mortis amp is going to make her able to deal with anything close to that level of power, period. And frankly? Dooku should have been stomped by it as well.

Anyway if we are looking for performances from Season 4 how about his fight against Kenobi in the very same arc he overpowers Dooku? Namely the one where Cad Bane ensnares him with a rope:

https://i.imgflip.com/1ewjma.gif

And Kenobi chokes him into submission:

https://i.imgflip.com/1ewjpj.gif

mmm

^ Not sure what Cad Bane throwing a rope at him from behind is supposed to prove.

And Kenobi just outfought him, getting him into a choke. In grappling it's not just the stronger opponent who can choke out the weaker one.

That he can't break free from some rope.

And I never said Kenobi was stronger than Anakin. That doesn't mean he can choke out Darth Sidious.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Through his mastery over the Force, yeah.


Not sure what difference that makes. In an all out S3 Pre-Mortis Anakin still struggled to subdue Ventress on one occasion and Savage on another with help. Whereas S4 Anakin is a near equal to Dooku.


Originally posted by Beniboybling

Neither of which prove anything.


S3 Anakin was getting Force pushed and Choked by Ventress whereas S5 Anakin was Force choking Ventress, doesn't prove anything?

The underwater feat was Ani's biggest TK feat during TCW outside of Mortis as far as I remember.




Originally posted by Beniboybling


A slight slash on the arm? With a lightsaber? Lmao.


I seem to recall Dooku slightly slashing Kenobi's arm and leg in AOTC without it doing any permanent damage to Kenobi. And yes that was with a lmao lightsaber

We also know that both Obi-Wan and an Anakin when not holding back will chop limbs off as seen in ROTS.

So yeah there was massive Jedi restraint there.

Ventress on the other hand looked like she was going all out for the kill.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That doesn't mean he can choke out Darth Sidious.


I'm not arguing he's stronger than Yoda or Palpatine. Just that since S4 (or post Mortis), Anakin was portrayed as much more powerful than in the earlier seasons, being a near equal to Dooku and with much fewer low showings.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not sure what difference that makes. In an all out S3 Pre-Mortis Anakin still struggled to subdue Ventress on one occasion and Savage on another with help. Whereas S4 Anakin is a near equal to Dooku.A big one given that same mastery gave him an advantage against Anakin many times.

Physically/combatively speaking though, Savage knocks Dooku on his ass and Ventress manages to hold his own against him in a blade lock. Beyond that, he kicks Ventress about and evades their attacks, much like he does against Anakin & Kenobi in S6. So I'm not seeing where this big disparity is.

No because the circumstances surrounding Ventress' feat aside, that's the wrong season.

So? What proof is there he couldn't have accomplished it in S3?

Him being a master of refinement in a way Anakin and Kenobi are not, yeah. Anakin for one is more inclined to hack off a limb.

No there wasn't, because Dooku was far more of a threat than Ventress and Anakin was pissed/out for revenge and likewise Kenobi was in a life or death situation and faced with the threat of the Sith takeover of the galaxy. The stakes were not remotely as extreme here.

Regardless this is besides the point, the point is that a lack of intent to kill or seriously injure does not mean they holding much back in a holistic sense. Both restraint and compassion are key aspects of a way a Jedi fights, and they should not need to compromise these tenets to fight effectively.