Rick McCallum Quote

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SunRazer
I'm sure most of you guys already know this, but Producer Rick McCallum says that Sidious is even more powerful than the Jedi, which, of course, includes Yoda:



I'm also curious to see how much faith you place in McCallum's (as the producer) words, since you guys generally seem to believe Lucas and Gillard. I assume that there'll be a similar standard of credence or disbelief for this quote.

UCanShootMyNova
I mean, he's fine till he says something contradictory to events like Gillard.

SunRazer
What does Gillard say that's contradictory to events?

UCanShootMyNova
Pretty much everything. All his rankings contradict with the performances the characters give.

quanchi112
Sunrazer you think Palpatine is a gut instinct retard when the chips are down.

SunRazer
Not seeing it. You'll have to be more specific.

SunRazer
Sorry, the link in the OP is wrong. It's here:

https://youtu.be/GjdycGgeaIY?t=281

relentless1
Of course Sidious is more powerful, thats been established in Legends and Canon

SunRazer
My point is that this means Sidious was always intended by the creators to be more powerful.

quanchi112
They were equals in terms of power in the film. Quit being ridiculous, sunrazer.

SunRazer
Well, the facts are on my side.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, the facts are on my side. No, they aren't. Yoda took Palpatine's best and it ended in a stalemate. Did you forget how Palpatine looked when Yoda went all in during the fl exchange.

SunRazer
Looks don't matter. Quotes from executives and the Star Wars website & guides do.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
Looks don't matter. Quotes from executives and the Star Wars website & guides do. Facts matter not the opinions of others. You are all over the map all the time depending on who says what and when. Evidence and facts matter not the opinions.

SunRazer
So your opinion doesn't count, but the facts established by sources do. Glad to see we're on the same page.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
So your opinion doesn't count, but the facts established by sources do. Glad to see we're on the same page. My opinion is supported by the facts your opinion is supported by an opinion. See the difference ?

SunRazer
It's not an opinion. It's a fact. The way it's worded makes it clear that it's part of Sidious' entire conceptualization as a character, something that the creators would've universally agreed upon.

With that:

quanchi112
Nothing in these quotes definitively proves your assertions. I'm sure you don't believe if Talzin won she'd be considered more powerful than Yoda but you've never really been known for your consistency. The battle did prove too much for Yoda but he was never outclassed in terms of power. Quit trying to muck this all up with your silly little quotes. Palpatine was the most powerful guy in the galaxy due to his authority just as Donald Trump is the most powerful. See how this can be interpreted, quote groupie.

SunRazer
I didn't say he was outclassed. I said he was outmatched. And that's a fact.

Also, "quote groupie", lmfao.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
I didn't say he was outclassed. I said he was outmatched. And that's a fact.

Also, "quote groupie", lmfao. Not by means of power by means of Yoda's poor positioning. They are equals in terms of power.

SunRazer
I'm wasting my time. Your concession for this and all past, present and future debates are accepted.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm wasting my time. Your concession for this and all past, present and future debates are accepted. You keep missing the point and are now accepting make believe concessions as a cowardly way to parachute out of this thread. Tell me now and be honest if I challenged you to an actual judged debate in which you couldn't run from me. Would you man up and accept or attempt to flee like Palpatine when Yoda force pushed him.

SunRazer
I'm not missing any point. I already posted the quote which reflects conceptualization of Palpatine by the creators. It's not just "an opinion". And it's supported by other quotes, at least as far as Canon goes. I believe Yoda's equality quotes are all from Legends, which is conflicted on the issue.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm not missing any point. I already posted the quote which reflects conceptualization of Palpatine by the creators. It's not just "an opinion". And it's supported by other quotes, at least as far as Canon goes. I believe Yoda's equality quotes are all from Legends, which is conflicted on the issue. Hakf the quotes just reflected that Yoda lost which he did. You conflate words for other meanings to suit your agenda. If you think you're hiding your agenda well you're not. We see the power display between the two. Yoda clearly matches him and the force from the released after effect knocks them both backwards but Yoda was in a worse position hence he lost. He's an idiot.

SunRazer
Don't talk about agendas.

Anyways, the first few quotes are indisputable. There's no twisting required. Most of the others say that Palpatine overwhelmed him, not that Yoda was equal but lost due to positioning.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
Don't talk about agendas.

Anyways, the first few quotes are indisputable. There's no twisting required. Most of the others say that Palpatine overwhelmed him, not that Yoda was equal but lost due to positioning. Ok let's do this quote by quote then. You use one quote at a time so we can specifically debate them. Acting like your interpretation is the only one is simply absurd.

SunRazer
The first three. Go.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
The first three. Go. One at a time.



He does have to be more powerful than the Jedi through the dark side. This isn't to be taken literally though. This doesn't compare him to any specific Jedi let alone Yoda. When debating specificity matters.

Should I proceed with the next quote or would you like the chance to rebut my masterful/logical response.

SunRazer
It doesn't need to compare him to anyone specifically. It's saying he's more powerful than any Jedi. Your first sentence doesn't really make sense.

Try the next quote.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
It doesn't need to compare him to anyone specifically. It's saying he's more powerful than any Jedi. Your first sentence doesn't really make sense.

Try the next quote. You are taking it too literally when it doesn't compare him to any specific Jedi just a vague and hyperbolic statement. Ok.

SunRazer
There's no hyperbole at all. "He has to be even more powerful than the Jedi" is not hyperbole, lmfao.

quanchi112
The end came with astonishing suddenness. The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength.


I agree he reached the limits of his strength but the backlash hit them both. Palpatine winced back as well when Yoda exerted himself. If Palpatine was truly more powerful Yoda wouldn't be able to redirect the force and been completely overwhelmed.

SunRazer
That's exactly what happens in the novel. Palpatine is never blown back to begin with. Yoda just gets blasted off the pod.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's exactly what happens in the novel. Palpatine is never blown back to begin with. Yoda just gets blasted off the pod. Yes, Palpatine is he was further on the pod while Yoda was closer to the edge hence the positioning. Do you think you're the only one who saw the duel ? Why do you continue to misrepresent it ?

Darth Thor
Again we really need to stop clinging to generalised quotes from executives and producers, and at least go by specifics.

Like Lucas's quote "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" was very specific in terms of which Jedi have a chance against him. Saying "Sidious has got to be more powerful then the Jedi is far too generalised. Saying Maul would lose to Vader is very specific. Saying Maul is "classically" trained is a bit more of a general description regarding Maul's level of training.

Then of course we know Lucas was Mr.Canon at the time. No other single Exec or Producer's words can be treated as Gospel like that. Unless they say this is what they discussed with Lucas in the past or with the Story Group in the present (assuming we believe them).


Now the Datbank is an actual canonical source. However the fight in the film itself ("primary source" for those kids who've studied history) in no way showed Palpatine was clearly Yoda's superior in combat, or in the Force. But did show Palpatine managing to come out on top Regardless.

Azronger
Nova, why are you wasting your time on Quan?

SunRazer
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, Palpatine is he was further on the pod while Yoda was closer to the edge hence the positioning. Do you think you're the only one who saw the duel ? Why do you continue to misrepresent it ?

I said the novel doesn't depict it the same way as the film, lmfao.

You've officially conceded.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Again we really need to stop clinging to generalised quotes from executives and producers, and at least go by specifics.

Like Lucas's quote "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" was very specific in terms of which Jedi have a chance against him. Saying "Sidious has got to be more powerful then the Jedi is far too generalised. Saying Maul would lose to Vader is very specific. Saying Maul is "classically" trained is a bit more of a general description regarding Maul's level of training.

Then of course we know Lucas was Mr.Canon at the time. No other single Exec or Producer's words can be treated as Gospel like that. Unless they say this is what they discussed with Lucas in the past or with the Story Group in the present (assuming we believe them).

Now the Datbank is an actual canonical source. However the fight in the film itself ("primary source" for those kids who've studied history) in no way showed Palpatine was clearly Yoda's superior in combat, or in the Force. But did show Palpatine managing to come out on top Regardless.

Well, Gillard also ranks Palpatine over Yoda, but that aside, it's clear that McCallum is saying that Sidious is more powerful than any of the Jedi. There's no other interpretation, lol, unless you think he means that Palpatine is more powerful than the entire Jedi Order combined. laughing out loud

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer
it's clear that McCallum is saying that Sidious is more powerful than any of the Jedi


Even if he said that I still wouldn't take it literally unless he specifically mentioned lines of he most powerful Jedi by name.

I just wouldn't look too much into general statements like that. Feats count first and foremost, then the data banks, and then exec/producer statements, but preferably very specific and clear ones in their case. Like the type Gillard makes with specific rankings for each character.

That's how I see it anyway.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Even if he said that I still wouldn't take it literally unless he specifically mentioned lines of he most powerful Jedi by name.

I just wouldn't look too much into general statements like that. Feats count first and foremost, then the data banks, and then exec/producer statements, but preferably very specific and clear ones in their case. Like the type Gillard makes with specific rankings for each character.

That's how I see it anyway.

You can't dismiss something on the basis of it not being specific. Other than that, the context of the quote would mean that McCallum is definitely placing Sidious above Mace Windu (and the rest of the B-team) with respect to power, which, when coupled with Gillard's tiering system, makes it blatantly obvious that Sidious > Mace anyway.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by SunRazer
You can't dismiss something on the basis of it not being specific.


Well because their words are not necessarily canon. Of course it's good to get an idea of creator intentions. But end of the day, they're just talking and they're only human. So unlike the Databank or other canon sources, It's not something they're writing down and then later editing to perfection.


Originally posted by SunRazer
Other than that, the context of the quote would mean that McCallum is definitely placing Sidious above Mace Windu (and the rest of the B-team) with respect to power, which, when coupled with Gillard's tiering system, makes it blatantly obvious that Sidious > Mace anyway.


Yes that seems to be what Rick was implying. Gillard definitely implied that.

SunRazer
It's something regardless, lol. It's still worth noting and using.

Anyways, both Gillard and McCallum agree on this, so it's quite obviously something agreed upon by the entire board - as part of the entire concept of Palpatine's character. This isn't just something McCallum made up on the spot.

relentless1
Even McDiarmid says that he was told but the stunt guys and producers that Sidious was "twice...no 500 times as fast as anyone else" on the same featurette where mcallum makes his statement

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
I said the novel doesn't depict it the same way as the film, lmfao.

You've officially conceded.



Well, Gillard also ranks Palpatine over Yoda, but that aside, it's clear that McCallum is saying that Sidious is more powerful than any of the Jedi. There's no other interpretation, lol, unless you think he means that Palpatine is more powerful than the entire Jedi Order combined. laughing out loud Film is all that matters. We see it live. We have all the data we need. Yoda matched up. If Sidious was more powerful he wouldn't have made the oh **** face when Yoda engaged his fl. It isn't specific it's just a generalized comment. You really aren't a serious debater if you'd hang your hat on generalized and vague statements. smile


Now I'll say it and actually mean it, concession accepted.

juggernaut74
While I'm not agreeing that film is all that matters, but the film did clearly show Yoda as being as powerful if not more powerful than Sidious. Yoda just ran out of time.

Trocity
Nova destroyed quan worse than Palpatine did Maul.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Trocity
Nova destroyed quan worse than Palpatine did Maul. No, his quite was vague and didn't address anything. The fact is Yoda took Palpatine's best and showed he's his equal in terms of power. The fact you think he owned me shows me how off you are as well. wink

Maul is still alive, kiddo.

SunRazer
There's no generalized and vague statements. My quotes are direct as they can possibly be - the fact that you continue to try and dismiss them as "generalized and vague" proves only that you have the intellectual capacity of a neanderthal.

As I said, your responses entail an instant concession for this and all past, present and future debates. And I've accepted that. Move on. Nobody wants to see your white feather.

relentless1
Originally posted by juggernaut74
While I'm not agreeing that film is all that matters, but the film did clearly show Yoda as being as powerful if not more powerful than Sidious. Yoda just ran out of time.

Yoda certainly seemed better in swordsmanship but then again the terrain favoured Yoda as Sidious couldn't maneuver properly in the small Chancellor podium space.

They seem about even in Force abilities with the edge going to Sidious; he was throwing those pods around like Sunday baseball and Yoda did fly farther than Sidious when the were blasted apart at the end of the fight.

I'd say put em on even ground and the fight goes in Sidious' favour a lot more decisively.

SunRazer
Originally posted by relentless1
Yoda certainly seemed better in swordsmanship but then again the terrain favoured Yoda as Sidious couldn't maneuver properly in the small Chancellor podium space.

They seem about even in Force abilities with the edge going to Sidious; he was throwing those pods around like Sunday baseball and Yoda did fly farther than Sidious when the were blasted apart at the end of the fight.

I'd say put em on even ground and the fight goes in Sidious' favour a lot more decisively.

thumb up

Gillard practically confirms that Sidious is better than Yoda as a swordsman, and that's supported by the new SW website quote which claims that Palpatine could best even the greatest Jedi warrior in lightsaber combat. Lucas also seems to suggest that Yoda can't actually beat Sidious in dueling, just compete with him. And just as a bonus, Filoni puts Sidious above all characters in TCW, including Yoda.

S_W_LeGenD
Disney should remake Episode III.

Beniboybling
Lol naw.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
Yoda certainly seemed better in swordsmanship but then again the terrain favoured Yoda as Sidious couldn't maneuver properly in the small Chancellor podium space.




Sidious CHOSE to move the fight to that podium. They were fighting on even ground before then so that's not an excuse.


Originally posted by relentless1


They seem about even in Force abilities with the edge going to Sidious; he was throwing those pods around like Sunday baseball and Yoda did fly farther than Sidious when the were blasted apart at the end of the fight.


Because Palpatine didn't have his Saber anymore so was unleashing the full might of his Force powers on Yoda who was just trying to get to Palpatine and slice him up with his Saber.

Also Palpatine had gravity on his side when throwing those pods. Yoda stopped to catch one and throw it against gravity, and Palpatine seemingly couldn't stop that one.



Originally posted by relentless1


I'd say put em on even ground and the fight goes in Sidious' favour a lot more decisively.


Clearly not because the fight DID begin on even ground, which Yoda was comfortable continuing there, but Palpatine was not.

The film portrayed them as relative equals. There's just no getting around that.


Originally posted by SunRazer
thumb up

Gillard practically confirms that Sidious is better than Yoda as a swordsman, and that's supported by the new SW website quote which claims that Palpatine could best even the greatest Jedi warrior in lightsaber combat. Lucas also seems to suggest that Yoda can't actually beat Sidious in dueling, just compete with him. And just as a bonus, Filoni puts Sidious above all characters in TCW, including Yoda.


The script (by Lucas) has Yoda winning the Saber duel, and it doesn't contradict the film one bit. Whereas all these statements claiming Palpatine was pushing Yoda's shit in do contradict the film.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Disney should remake Episode III.



Nah the only thing they Should and Will eventually remake is the KOTOR era stuff.

quanchi112
Originally posted by SunRazer
There's no generalized and vague statements. My quotes are direct as they can possibly be - the fact that you continue to try and dismiss them as "generalized and vague" proves only that you have the intellectual capacity of a neanderthal.

As I said, your responses entail an instant concession for this and all past, present and future debates. And I've accepted that. Move on. Nobody wants to see your white feather. You're biased and live for quotes I get it. You also want to ignore what words mean like specific and vague. You also want to ignore the film on panel comparison between the two in terms of power.

You aren't bright and on another occasion have said Sidious was stupid in the moment. You want other quotes to be the end all be all which is really the most lemming thing I'd ever hear anyone say on the internet. You're done here just walk away with whatever pride you have left at this point. Film and specificity over a generalized quote. Evidence matters.

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