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Captain America no body armor no shield vs Wolverine no claws no adamantium bones. Just a fight, a brawl, fisticuffs, hand to hand fight, knock down drag out.

Cap wins, with ease.

Why do you think so?

Originally posted by cdtm
Cap wins, with ease.

Ha, no.

Even when his heart wasn't in it, he still gave Cap a fight.

Skills are a wash, so it's basically SSS vs. HF... and HF takes it.

No claws.

He gave Cap a fight by mutilating his legs. Taking away his knives is like taking away Himura Kenshin's sword against Saito.

Yeah, he's not helpless, but he'll be seriously gimped.

Without his claws, he's beaten Shang-Chi, Daredevil and Iron Fist...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Without his claws, he's beaten Shang-Chi, Daredevil and Iron Fist... wasn't that first one back when he didn't have the adamantine skeleton and therefore wasn't weighed down as much? Daredevil has also worked Logan over on occasion. That was a sparring match though.

He doesn't have the adamantium skeleton in this thread, so it's a perfect example.

Yep. No adamantium in this thread, so 105 lbs less. And a better healing factor.

snikts got em

wolvie can still berserk without claws

Cap has pretty high damage soak too though..
As seen wtih Gambit.

Cap couldn't take a punch from Flashenom in his base agent form.

BC Wolvie fought the Hulk.

Cap.

Has Cap ever worn Body Armor?

Chainmail. Resisted Ulik's teeth.

I didn't know they were that intimate with each other.

Kevlar, Nomex, light weight titanium

Wolverine is a female teen. Cap destroys.

Cap loses basically every time. No equipment hurts him way more than Wolverine.

Two expert martial artists fight hand-to-hand, but one has a healing factor. Do the math.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Cap loses basically every time. No equipment hurts Cap way more than Wolverine.

Two expert martial artists fight hand-to-hand, but one has a healing factor. Do the math.

That's what I was saying, yup

Originally posted by StyleTime
Cap loses basically every time. Two expert martial artists fight. One has a healing factor. Do the math.

Logan's HF has it's limits, though. And Cap hits harder, and "should" hit more often.

He's considered the pinnacle of h2h combat, after all, above even the likes of Shang Chi and Iron Fist (I don't buy that, but it's how he's portrayed.)

Cap in pure h2h against anyone at the street/meta level usually = auto win for Cap.

its*

Cap hits harder? Prove it.

Pinnacle of h2h combat that has been bested before (by Moondragon, for example) and downgraded to 6/7 in handbooks?

Wolverine was shown to be above Chi and Fist, too.

Auto win against a guy who heals from Hulk-lv punches even when missing his adamantium? Cap's missing his armor&shield here, while Logan retains the hf and super durable skeleton.

When has Wolverine defeated IF?

In their sparring in New Avengers.

You don't want to count that, then we cannnot count Steve/Chi sparring either, then. And that one made both of them look like equals, actually, instead of what cdtm is suggesting.

No adamantium at all including skeleton. Wolverine was suppose to have Spider-Man level agility I read but also created to fight Hulk? Cap has a healing factor just not Wolverine level hf. Wolverine also has 100+ years of combat experience.

Cap's "hf" is not even near as battlefield-efficient as Wolverine's. He needs time to recover, time and rest. Like the Punisher or Spider-Man or even Cage.

Wolverine's skeleton is super-durable even w/o adamantium.

Yeah, his agility was great enough for him to imitate Beast...

Still Cap.

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar133437_37.gif

Final Justice son.

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/user_sigs/3/7/customsig_133437_mm.gif

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
In their sparring in New Avengers.

You don't want to count that, then we cannnot count Steve/Chi sparring either, then. And that one made both of them look like equals, actually, instead of what cdtm is suggesting.

Sparring matches don't count.

Originally posted by Zack M
Sparring matches don't count.

Cool. Then like I said, we can't really say Cap is superior to Chi since he never actually fought him.

You're lost here.

So, Logan has 1 victory over Shang. Cap has 0. Logan has 1 stalemate vs Fist and so does Cap (although IF wasn't at his best when he dueled Cap).

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
its*

Cap hits harder? Prove it.



Spidey called Cap's punch like an atom bomb when he caught one. High praise, considering Spidey's rogues of double digit multi tonners and up.

US Agent is, what, a 15 tonner himself? And still got taken by 1 tonner Cap.

Cap's punches have been enough to take Rhino, Mr. Hyde, Wrecking Crew. On average, he's always slugged above the street tier, being a "peak of human perfection" super soldier and all. Hell, even the rigged by fan vote Marvel vs DC made it crystal clear Batman's blows were like little jabs compared to Cap's haymakers..

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cool. Then like I said, we can't really say Cap is superior to Chi since he never actually fought him.

You're lost here.

So, Logan has 1 victory over Shang. Cap has 0. Logan has 1 stalemate vs Fist and so does Cap (although IF wasn't at his best when he dueled Cap).

Well, they did spar (Secret Avengers) and didn't Cap look superior?

I know, I know.

Originally posted by cdtm
Spidey called Cap's punch like an atom bomb when he caught one. High praise, considering Spidey's rogues of double digit multi tonners and up.

US Agent is, what, a 15 tonner himself? And still got taken by 1 tonner Cap.

Cap's punches have been enough to take Rhino and Mr. Hyde. On average, he's always slugged above the street tier, being a "peak of human perfection" super soldier and all. Hell, even the rigged by fan vote Marvel vs DC made it crystal clear Batman's blows were like little jabs compared to Cap's haymakers..

And Wolverine's pimp slap sent Spidey flying and hitting a wall

Agent is Class 10. Always has been.

Logan's punches have taken out Roughouse a few times.

Really (cap/bat)? Because it seemed like they were equals, if anything.

Originally posted by Zack M
Well, they did spar (Secret Avengers) and didn't Cap look superior?

I know, I know.

No, he didn't.

We have Shang-Chi knocking him on his ass and letting him get up. And then Cap doing the same thing. 1:1.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No, he didn't.

We have Shang-Chi knocking him on his ass and letting him get up. And then Cap doing the same thing. 1:1.

Shang was the one on his butt.

My bad, I saw what you meant. Yeah, 1:1

Originally posted by Zack M
Shang was the one on his butt.

In round 2.

In round 1, Cap was on his butt. You'd know that if you read Marvel.

Originally posted by Zack M
My bad, I saw what you meant. Yeah, 1:1

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
In round 2.

In round 1, Cap was on his butt. You'd know that if you read Marvel.

Just posted before you.

Anyway, I guess that makes Bronze Tiger's feat pretty impressive, since he got Batman in a lock.

Originally posted by cdtm
Cap in pure h2h against anyone at the street/meta level usually = auto win for Cap.
A strong healing factor is the auto-win in street h2h tbh. It's the whole "we're trading blows but I can heal from missile strikes" factor. It makes the skill argument moot. Even if Wolverine was a notch below, his opponent would have to land 10 punches for every one he lands. It's just not happening with same tier stats.

Originally posted by StyleTime
A strong healing factor is the auto-win in street h2h tbh. It's the whole "we're trading blows but I can heal from missile strikes" factor. It makes the skill argument moot. Even if Wolverine was a notch below, his opponent would have to land 10 punches for every one he lands. It's just not happening.

Well, like certain Wolverine fans claimed (Maybe Galan? I forget..) it's all about overloading the hf with mounting damage.

Otherwise, Logan could never be beaten in h2h. Obviously, he has, so it must be equally possible for him to take a Hulk shot but still lose to Mr. X (And his very base level gang.)

And Captain America is known for his relentlessness.

Mr. X, due to hax, can actually land all of his hits without Wolverine hitting him back.

Steve can't.

Mr. X also had a small army dealing damage to Wolverine in multiple skirmishes throughout the day.

Originally posted by cdtm
Well, like certain Wolverine fans claimed (Maybe Galan? I forget..) it's all about overloading the hf with mounting damage.

Galan hated Wolverine from the start. How is he a Wolverine fan, cd? Stop doing this shit. We're all veterans here, making up stuff will NOT work.

Originally posted by cdtm
Otherwise, Logan could never be beaten in h2h. Obviously, he has, so it must be equally possible for him to take a Hulk shot but still lose to Mr. X (And his very base level gang.)

Mr X? Like that time when Logan fought his army, after 25 beers and countless smokes?

Imagine me or you on the weekend, trying to fight a group of some stereotype geek guys. Wolverine did the equivalent in dozens, ending up with a master martial artist w/ tp as the boss.

But yes, the cumulative damage is the one way to take him out... too bad, Cap can't quite replicate the Mister X scenario.

And if you want to be nitpicking so hard, let's nitpick the shit out of your Rhino (plot device) or Hyde (weakened) examples, too.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
But yes, the cumulative damage is the one way to take him out... too bad, Cap can't quite replicate the Mister X scenario.

And if you want to be nitpicking so hard, let's nitpick the shit out of your Rhino (plot device) or Hyde (weakened) examples, too.

IMO Shang should beat Cap, so not going down that road. You know how Cap is like Marvel's walking Bat kick.

The crew was weakened?

Originally posted by cdtm
IMO Shang should beat Cap, so not going down that road.

Okay.

Originally posted by cdtm
You know how Cap is like Marvel's walking Bat kick.

Cap's kick is good, but Wolverkick is not too bad, either. Having worked on Steve three times, at least.

Originally posted by cdtm
The crew was weakened?

IF was weakened when he faced Cap. Tired and coud barely muster 1 if hit.

As for Crew, we can start with the power-sharing shit, meaning Wrecker lending his power to others, but that's another story. And inconsistent one.

Hasn't wolvie beaten cap before?

Originally posted by Genii96
Hasn't wolvie beaten cap before?

They both have wins over each other.

Logan's most solid win is probably when Cap tried using the Muramasa sword on him, which nullifies his healing factor. Cap squeezed his wrists just as he was popping his claws, keeping him from using them.

But not before Logan somehow mutilated his legs without Cap noticing. Made him form a blood clot and faint, a good strategy (Never would have worked with Iron Fist though, since he can chi heal. )

Well two highly skilled fighters
One is physically superior and can heal rapidly

No contest really

Originally posted by cdtm
They both have wins over each other.

Nope, Cap doesn't have a legit win.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Nope, Cap doesn't have a legit win.

The Daniel Way beatdown wasn't legit? Only seen scans, I'll admit.

Well, if that's true it only makes Deadpools legit win over Logan even better. (Seriously, the time he pumped Logan up with enough poison to fell a dinosaur was totally legit.)

It's like he has a personal "anti-icon" field or something.

Originally posted by cdtm
The Daniel Way beatdown wasn't legit? Only seen scans, I'll admit.

Well, if that's true it only makes Deadpools legit win over Logan even better. (Seriously, the time he pumped Logan up with enough poison to fell a dinosaur was totally legit.)

It's like he has a personal "anti-icon" field or something.

Wasn't, because Wolverine admits himself his heart wasn't in it. Serving f*cking Zemo really wasn't his thing. That's exactly why he spared Bucky and didn't tell Zemo about him.

seems in this scenario the HF would be tough to overcome. not sure cap is actually capable of burning it out in this type of fight..... hard not to see logan winning almost every time. /shrug

and galan is a classic logan hater. everyone knows that's why he switched to being a cosmic guy.

Originally posted by leonidas
seems in this scenario the HF would be tough to overcome. not sure cap is actually capable of burning it out in this type of fight..... hard not to see logan winning almost every time. /shrug

and galan is a classic logan hater. everyone knows that's why he switched to being a cosmic guy.

Huh, didn't know that about him.

Probably wasn't even him, though. The guy who mentioned "overload the hf" was usually arguing FOR the midget.

A lot of Wolverine fans have come and gone since..

pfft, you kidding? mention logan around galan and he loses his sh!t. classic hater that guy.

Cdtm doesn't really know us. False kmcer.

We must think of some good punishment for him. Sharing the same cell with brucie in Sin's dungeon, perhaps?

his innocence is endearing.

my vote for snkits still stands but it would be a good fight. I could see cap snapping logans neck to incapacitate him. it will take a minute before he heals that back.

but lets not forget logan is a frigging ninja/samurai as well. I think that logan may simply just be a better martial artist.