Best man for the job III

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except That's not how war ends. Surfer has tried to end wars before and it never worked. Surfer can destroy weapons but as soon as he will leave, the war will begin again.

Superman on the other hand has stopped wars by simply showing up in the battlefield.

Reread his first series, he's ended conflicts/wars before. And it's not as if DC Earth is free of war because of Supes. People are dicks, eventually they always start fighting again. The goal set forth by the OP was just to end the conflict and repair the damage, Surfer can easily accomplish both those things

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only way is BFR. Surfer isn't transmuting or reprogramming Ultron. Energy drain might work though.

I'm curious as to why you think he couldn't transmute Ultron.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, no. Surfer isn't remotely fast enough to do that. This is a job for a speedster and Surfer isn't one.

Sure he is. I know you won't agree no matter what though, so it'd be silly to bother trying to convince you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer needed cable to do that. Anyway General will overpower him if he goes for close quarters and as he is so prone to do it, it's almost guaranteed to happen.

He was doing it solo pretty effectively in one of his battles with Terrax. It wasn't covered in the actual issue the fight took place in though, it was instead mentioned in a flashback that came out later. I can't remember what issue it was, I just remember the story was told from the perspective of a guy(possibly a reporter, though I'm not 100% on that detail) who lost his wife during the battle(I believe it was established that she was the only person who died as a result of the fight).

Originally posted by abhilegend
And how often does he even BFRs someone? Only one I could think of is Durok add nd that was fifty years ago.

He's also done it to one of Galactus's robots that was about to kill the FF, Terrax, and that giant gestalt monster that was absorbing all the organic matter it came into contact with on Earth. So that's at least 4 times minimum that he's done it, and there are probably other times that I'm just not remembering off the top of my head.

krisblaze

Supes' inability to end wars was pretty distinct in for tomorrow ermm

deathslash

Originally posted by krisblaze
Supes' inability to end wars was pretty distinct in for tomorrow ermm yeah, I think it would take a strong sort of person that makes it blatantly obvious that he'd kill both sides if the fighting continues. I think Thor would be best suited for that job.

"Id"

For Jesus Cable

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Conflict resolution and repair of Aleppo, Syria (prior to ceasefire)

In Cable and Deadpool, and Soldier X. Nate dismantled the weapons from opposing sides, and forced them to cease their transgression.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
- Ultron-13 (pure Adamantium casing) in Times square

His T.O. virus is lethal towards tech base foes.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
- Santa claus gets shot in the face on Christmas eve an hour before he sets out and someone has to get the toys to all the kids worldwide by Christmas morning

Soothing the pain of every dying person. Stopped the White blood count deterioration of every Aids victim in Africa.

Delivering Toys, is cake walk for someone that global scale TK, and TP to work with.
Originally posted by psycho gundam

- General Eiling in Hong kong

Body Side by one.
Originally posted by psycho gundam

- Mount Everest. Destroy it.

He held afloat a city, and previously blew up a mountain.

riv6672

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah, trolling as usual.
I can laugh with you or at you. You usually make it the latter. Thanks.

TethAdamTheRock

Flash Jay Garrick

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
Reread his first series, he's ended conflicts/wars before. And it's not as if DC Earth is free of war because of Supes. People are dicks, eventually they always start fighting again. The goal set forth by the OP was just to end the conflict and repair the damage, Surfer can easily accomplish both those things

No, he didn't. He tried to end wars by making himself an enemy and got almost killed in the end in FF 72.

It is to end the war. Not the conflict.

Because he can't transmute adamantium.

laughing out loud

He is not a speedster. Never has been no matter how much you whine.

Let's see how many speed feats you can show us which shows otherwise.

I can't recall that. Issue number?
In all those scenarios, he carried them personally. Guess what? Both Ultron and Elling would overpower him if he does that here.

abhilegend

Originally posted by krisblaze
Supes' inability to end wars was pretty distinct in for tomorrow ermm Originally posted by deathslash
yeah, I think it would take a strong sort of person that makes it blatantly obvious that he'd kill both sides if the fighting continues. I think Thor would be best suited for that job.
He stopped a war in Rucka's run by simply appearing on battlefield.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he didn't. He tried to end wars by making himself an enemy and got almost killed in the end in FF 72.

It is to end the war. Not the conflict.

I'm not talking about him trying to make himself the enemy, I'm talking about him destroying all the weapons on the battlefield and taking out the army leaders and such. The time you're talking about wasn't he trying to end ALL war on the planet by making himself the enemy of everyone?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he can't transmute adamantium.

What makes you think that? If Magneto can liquefy adamantium, I don't see why Surfer can't transmute it. Does Ultron have some kind of massive resistance feats against transmutation I'm unaware of?

Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

He is not a speedster. Never has been no matter how much you whine.

Let's see how many speed feats you can show us which shows otherwise.

As I already said, trying to convince you would be silly. Your lowballing and denial of Surfer's speed feats are legendary.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I can't recall that. Issue number?

I specifically said that I can't remember the issue number and gave you all the details from the issue I could remember. If you choose to disbelieve me that's up to you. With any luck though, someone like Roldz will come along and provide the issue number or scans.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In all those scenarios, he carried them personally. Guess what? Both Ultron and Elling would overpower him if he does that here.

Actually against Galactus's robot he just teleported the thing away. Anyway, I was simply addressing your point that he'd only ever BFRd Durok by listing other instances of him doing it.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not talking about him trying to make himself the enemy, I'm talking about him destroying all the weapons on the battlefield and taking out the army leaders and such. The time you're talking about wasn't he trying to end ALL war on the planet by making himself the enemy of everyone?

And that doesn't stops war. He tried it again in In The Name and it didn't worked there too.

If force is all it takes to win a war, America wouldn't have lost Vietnam War.

That's Magneto whose control over metal is unparalleled in comics. And you can rearrange adamantium molecules, Ultron moves by constantly rearranging it. You can't transmute it though.

Is there a feat of Surfer transmuting something as tough as Adamantium? Next thing you will say he can transmute Cap's shield as well? Surfer isn't molecule man.

Hahaha, oh the denial here. How about this, show me Surfer ever doing a complex scene with his vaunted superspeed.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/4795177-1122062501-38977.jpg

Heck, even catching a bullet with his speed would suffice.

I hardly trust you with anything regarding Surfer. I will check again and see if anything like that occurs in any comic.
Issue number for robot scene? And in all those instances he physically carried the characters away.

Both Ultron and Eiling would beat the shit out of him if he used that tactic against them.

TheLordofMurder

Originally posted by zopzop
Surfer for all of them, no contest. Hell, he can even go back in time to make sure Santa was never shot in the face or stop the Syrian conflict before it got out of hand.

thumb up

Mini Cosmic Containment Unit for the win...

smile

abhilegend

We are talking about Surfer the character. Not your imagination version of Surfer.

riv6672

HaHa irony.

Genii96

Surfer in all

As for Santa Claus bit
He searched the planet for namor in the time strange made a sentence. So yea

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
And that doesn't stops war. He tried it again in In The Name and it didn't worked there too.

If force is all it takes to win a war, America wouldn't have lost Vietnam War.

Force IS all it takes to stop war. America lost Vietnam because they pulled out. Psycho's not asking for the characters to permanently eliminate conflict from the area.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's Magneto whose control over metal is unparalleled in comics. And you can rearrange adamantium molecules, Ultron moves by constantly rearranging it. You can't transmute it though.

Is there a feat of Surfer transmuting something as tough as Adamantium? Next thing you will say he can transmute Cap's shield as well? Surfer isn't molecule man.

Do you have something to suggest that adamantium is "so tough" that it can't be transmuted? After all, I'm reasonably sure it's been noted that Surfer's transmutation can rearrange atoms...

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, oh the denial here. How about this, show me Surfer ever doing a complex scene with his vaunted superspeed.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111142536/4795177-1122062501-38977.jpg

Heck, even catching a bullet with his speed would suffice.

You've already been shown such things in the past. Grabbing Nova(the herald) and escaping before the building exploded, grabbing Nova(Richard) by the throat and throwing him without being seen, fighting his double at high speeds, blitzing alien ships while evading fire, etc.

And forget bullets, Surfer's blocked energy blast after they're fired...

Originally posted by abhilegend
I hardly trust you with anything regarding Surfer. I will check again and see if anything like that occurs in any comic.

Go right ahead. You might try cross referencing appearances of Surfer and Terrax since they both appear in the issue.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Issue number for robot scene? And in all those instances he physically carried the characters away.

Both Ultron and Eiling would beat the shit out of him if he used that tactic against them.

It was in FF #76, feel free to investigate if you want. This one I actually have scans for though...

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/misc/fantasticfour076-19.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/misc/fantasticfour076-20.jpg

And again, the other examples were brought up because you seemed to being implying that Surfer BFRing opponents was a one time occurrence that won't repeat itself... it's not. BFR is a perfectly valid tactic for him to use in a forum fight.

darthgoober

Just to note, I'm now unsure of whether or not that was Galactus's android. It may have actually been one of Psychoman's. Doesn't matter overall, I just wanted to clarify cause I don't like providing specific details that turn out not to be true.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
Force IS all it takes to stop war. America lost Vietnam because they pulled out. Psycho's not asking for the characters to permanently eliminate conflict from the area.

No, it doesn't. History is littered with examples like that.

Yes, it has never been transmuted before IIRC except Molecule Man and Surfer has never come close to such a feat.

Why don't you provide a feat that suggest Surfer can actually do it other than asking me to prove a negative?

So nothing but flight speed? Good to know.

Because it's his board which he has a mental command and which lets him fly at those speeds.

How about this, Surfer races classic Quicksilver on foot. Who wins?

Who hasn't? Even street level heroes do that with impunity. Has Surfer ever even catched a bullet which is the simplest speed feat? Heck, even Thor has done that and he is slow as slug.

Well, of course.

So one instance nearly fifty years ago?

thumb up

Not if he doesn't uses it regularly. He might do it personally but in that case he gets his shit kicked in.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it doesn't. History is littered with examples like that.

You're being ridiculous, it's also littered with instances of force being all that's required(just look at Japan during WW2). Again, Pycho's not asking for the character to create permanent peace in the area, just standard conflict resolution. These factions came to a cease fire on their own WITHOUT someone eliminating all weapons on both sides, offering to repair all the collateral damage done, and healing the survivors.

And while I'm thinking about it, never in our history has a situation arisen where someone like Surfer got involved so you bringing up that Earth's wars have never been solved by force is a little... off, to say the least. We're talking about an actual, real life conflict here on Earth after all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, it has never been transmuted before IIRC except Molecule Man and Surfer has never come close to such a feat.

Why don't you provide a feat that suggest Surfer can actually do it other than asking me to prove a negative?

I'm not asking for you to prove a negative, I'm asking you to back your claim that while Adamantium's molecules can be moved around the substance can't be transmuted. To make a claim like that, you need to have something to base it on. There are a number of characters/items/substances in comics that have never been transmuted before, that doesn't automatically confer immunity to the tactic. Those things need something to suggest that they're the exception to the rule.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So nothing but flight speed? Good to know.

Because it's his board which he has a mental command and which lets him fly at those speeds.

How about this, Surfer races classic Quicksilver on foot. Who wins?

It's not only flight speed, it takes arm/mental speed to successfully grab stuff at those speeds and to aim/attack at targets at those speeds.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who hasn't? Even street level heroes do that with impunity. Has Surfer ever even catched a bullet which is the simplest speed feat? Heck, even Thor has done that and he is slow as slug.

You're engineering a specific example as the only possible proof... doesn't work that way. Surfer doesn't need to catch bullets. Come to think of it though, he has absorbed them in flight. And no, street level heroes don't do it the way Surfer does. Look at his confrontation with the Eternals when we see Ikariss eyeblast halfway to Surfer while his arms are at his side, and then Surfer raises his hand and blocks it for an example.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So one instance nearly fifty years ago?

thumb up

The point is that he's done it. I was addressing your claim that he's ONLY ever done it by dragging his opponent away, that's untrue. Mathematically, one is infinitely more than zero. He's also covered Millinius in rock and sent him to the core of a planet without dragging him now that I'm thinking about it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not if he doesn't uses it regularly. He might do it personally but in that case he gets his shit kicked in.

He doesn't have to do it regularly for it to be "in character" for him to do it when the situation warrants it in a forum fight silly. Comic fights seldom meet the conditions of a forum fight.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
You're being ridiculous, it's also littered with instances of force being all that's required(just look at Japan during WW2). Again, Pycho's not asking for the character to create permanent peace in the area, just standard conflict resolution. These factions came to a cease fire on their own WITHOUT someone eliminating all weapons on both sides, offering to repair all the collateral damage done, and healing the survivors.

That's rubbish. If that was all it takes to finish a war, no wars will be fought today.

Guess what, it has never been enough.

Maybe, maybe not. All we can go are from comics and Surfer has never been able to stop a war.

You need to prove that it can be transmuted in the first place by someone like Surfer.

Asking to prove "Prove Surfer can't transmute Adamantium" is proving a negative.

Using Magneto as a stand in for Surfer? Pitiful.

So you have nothing. Good to know.

Not in comics. That's why Lobo and Green Lanterns can fly at FTL speeds. Surfer is just a slower GL after all.

Surfer needs to do anything resembling superspeed to have speed. Flying fast isn't superspeed.

laughing out loud

Pitiful.

Batman has blocked heat vision from behind and has actually dodged Dr Light's lightspeed blasts.

Blocking lasers is literally the shittiest thing you can bring up for superspeed.

Heh, one out of what thousands? You'll have better luck showing Hulk can fly because he once did.

After he was defeated. Before that? Fisticuffs as usual.

Here Thor isn't going to save him.

But he actually needs to do it more than once for being feasible. If he does carry characters away a dozen times and teleported them away one time, in character he is going to carry them away.

You don't make the rules here.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's rubbish. If that was all it takes to finish a war, no wars will be fought today.

Guess what, it has never been enough.

When has it ever been possible for someone to do all that Surfer can do? Never. So you can't really say it's NEVER been enough.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Maybe, maybe not. All we can go are from comics and Surfer has never been able to stop a war.

Marvel Earth and real world Earth are radically different. The question posed is in regards to this thread involves OUR Earth so you can't use Marvel Earth as a basis when Marvel Earth has an actual established history of super beings that our Earth lacks. It's a totally theoretical question with nothing to base it on except logic and common sense.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You need to prove that it can be transmuted in the first place by someone like Surfer.

Asking to prove "Prove Surfer can't transmute Adamantium" is proving a negative.

Using Magneto as a stand in for Surfer? Pitiful.

So you have nothing. Good to know.

Surfer can transmute matter and energy, adamantium is matter. If you're claiming that Adamantium is an exception to the rule you need something to suggest it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not in comics. That's why Lobo and Green Lanterns can fly at FTL speeds. Surfer is just a slower GL after all.

If Lobo and GL can enter into combat range, grab someone by the throat, and throw them with such speed that they're totally unseen then they're speedsters too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer needs to do anything resembling superspeed to have speed. Flying fast isn't superspeed.

Grabbing someone and throwing them at superspeed is superspeed. Grabbing ANYTHING stationary while moving at lightspeed is super speed. Fighting at superspeed is superspeed. You're being silly here. See, this is why I said it was silly to try to convince you, all you do is plug your ears and ignore reason.

Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

Pitiful.

I didn't say it was a big thing, just pointing out that he's reacted to bullets too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Batman has blocked heat vision from behind and has actually dodged Dr Light's lightspeed blasts.

Blocking lasers is literally the shittiest thing you can bring up for superspeed.

Batman is Batman. Guys like him and Cap do stuff that goes above and beyond common sense and the suspension of disbelieve all the time. He's also snuck up on Superman and grabbed the Flash, that doesn't mean someone else sneaking up on Supes or grabbing Flash is any less of a feat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Heh, one out of what thousands? You'll have better luck showing Hulk can fly because he once did.

After he was defeated. Before that? Fisticuffs as usual.

Here Thor isn't going to save him.

Again one is infinitely more than zero, which is what you claimed. And two definitely is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But he actually needs to do it more than once for being feasible. If he does carry characters away a dozen times and teleported them away one time, in character he is going to carry them away.

You don't make the rules here.

I'm not trying to make the rules, you're trying to twist the rules compartmentalize feats to hurt any character who's not your boy. It's in character for Surfer to BFR, however he chooses to do it, period.

zopzop

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
thumb up

Mini Cosmic Containment Unit for the win...

smile

Originally posted by abhilegend
We are talking about Surfer the character. Not your imagination version of Surfer.
What did we say that you disagree with Abhi? On panel he's done the following : raised the dead, healed injured beings, transmuted matter on a planetary scale, search the entire planet in the time it took Strange to finish a sentence, destroyed planets, created life and then evolved it several million years, traveled forward AND backward through time, displayed planetary level TP, etc...

He's easily the best man for the job going by ON PANEL evidence.

psycho gundam

For the record: I didn't make any of the scenarios swing towards any particular character.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
When has it ever been possible for someone to do all that Surfer can do? Never. So you can't really say it's NEVER been enough.

But he has never done it. So no, it isn't your imagination running wild here in Surfer's body.

No, its not. And marvel earth hadn't been that littered with super powered humans in 60s.

Keep throwing red herrings though.

Except he can't. Not all matter and adamantium is the likely the toughest metal of them all.

Funny thing, Lobo has actually blitzed someone and GLs have actually punched someone at FTL speeds. Like here Alan punches Hal while travelling from Earth to Oa.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/23684107_P00030.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/23684109_P00031.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/23684113_P00035.jpg

Or Lobo blitzing superspeed style.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30922490_Guy_Gardner-08-19.jpg

Neither are speedsters.

Hahaha, you are still stuck at those little arguments? They are merely flight speed showings for Surfer.

Why don't you show Surfer without his board actually doing something on his own? All you are showing are either flight speed or a burst of reflexes. Where is Surfer maintaining a superspeed scene?

There is a very large difference between Superman and Surfer in terms of speed. Deal with it. Or not, its not my concern.

But don't come here trying to post your shitty logic again and again.

You are being an idiot here. Not that you don't do that everytime.

Haha, he hasn't.

He is as much of a speedster that Surfer is. Aka not really. And what a shitty cop out.

Its still not in his character as you claimed. Five is of course more than one or two.

No, it isn't. Try again.

abhilegend

Originally posted by zopzop
What did we say that you disagree with Abhi? On panel he's done the following : raised the dead,

Never did.

Standard herald level showings.

The first is strictly a travel speed showing. Second is a standard herald level showing.

He didn't create life.

And?

No, he really isn't. And he isn't some mini CCU either.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
But he has never done it. So no, it isn't your imagination running wild here in Surfer's body.

Of course the scenario is totally theoretical. It's set on OUR Earth.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, its not. And marvel earth hadn't been that littered with super powered humans in 60s.

Keep throwing red herrings though.

There weren't nearly as many as there are now, but there were still plenty. There was the FF of course, the X-Men, the Avengers, Spider-Man, all the golden age heroes, and all the villains that went with all those heroes. Plus guys like Galactus touching down on Earth.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except he can't. Not all matter and adamantium is the likely the toughest metal of them all.

Again, based on what other than you personally wanting to restrict his abilities? Do you have something to suggest that Adamantium is resistant to being manipulated on the atomic level or not?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Funny thing, Lobo has actually blitzed someone and GLs have actually punched someone at FTL speeds. Like here Alan punches Hal while travelling from Earth to Oa.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/23684107_P00030.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/23684109_P00031.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/23684113_P00035.jpg

Or Lobo blitzing superspeed style.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/30922490_Guy_Gardner-08-19.jpg

Neither are speedsters.

Lobo has superspeed. It's not showcased often but it doesn't have to be to be recognized as a power. And your scene with Alan is just him flying at someone with his fist held strait out, that's a far cry from him grabbing someone and throwing them without them even being able to see him.

And before you start again with outright denial of Surfer having super speed, take a close look at Pr's ruling here...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15288569& amp;highlight=surfer+super+speed+forumid%3A77+user
id%3A41296#post15288569

...most notably the part where he says "super speed is part of Surfer's powerset. Get over it."

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, you are still stuck at those little arguments? They are merely flight speed showings for Surfer.

Why don't you show Surfer without his board actually doing something on his own? All you are showing are either flight speed or a burst of reflexes. Where is Surfer maintaining a superspeed scene?

There is a very large difference between Superman and Surfer in terms of speed. Deal with it. Or not, its not my concern.

But don't come here trying to post your shitty logic again and again.

It's not all flight speed abhi, again moving your arms at super speed IS super speed. But go ahead and keep on plugging your ears, it's not as if you're the first guy to ignore on panel evidence and logic and you won't be the last(though you may be the loudest).

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are being an idiot here. Not that you don't do that everytime.

Yeah, actually interpreting on panel evidence with logic and common sense is totally idiotic... oh wait, no it's not.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, he hasn't.

Sure he has, he absorbed them.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He is as much of a speedster that Surfer is. Aka not really. And what a shitty cop out.

He's Batman, that's pretty much all the explanation DC ever gives. Surfer doesn't have the Bat aura protecting him or aiding him in his feats, he just has powers.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its still not in his character as you claimed. Five is of course more than one or two.

Sure it is. He's BFR'd multiple opponents when it suited him, ergo it's in character for him to do so.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it isn't. Try again.

Of course it is. Have we already reached the point in the debate when you cease even pretending to try to provide a rational argument and just rely on "Nuh uh"?

zopzop

Originally posted by abhilegend
Never did.

https://s27.postimg.org/5sdisniun/silver_surfer_heals_thor_724x1024.jpg
He did the same to another god, Balder.

Ok, show me any other herald mentioned in the OP doing this. I want to know where Wonder Woman transmuted matter on a planetary scale. How about Superman? Show me them healing other beings.

Show me Wonder Woman or other heralds in this thread destroying planets or scanning the planet before someone finishes a sentence.

https://s30.postimg.org/kb8mjcu31/silver_surfer_creates_life_1024x774.jpg https://s30.postimg.org/kcikcrvwt/silver_surfer_creates_and_destroys_life_1024x785.jpg

What do you mean "and"? How is the ability to travel forward and backward through time not going to be handy here?

Yes, he really is.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
Of course the scenario is totally theoretical. It's set on OUR Earth.

No, it's based on the actual events from a comic.

None of them except FF actually mattered in his attempts to stop war.

He wasn't able to transmute Johnny's flame when it was magically altered. There is a clear limitations on his power. And even pretty powerful magic has been unable to transmute Logan's bones.

His transmutation isn't as powerful as you think.

Do you have anything to suggest Surfer can actually transmute it? You made the claim that he can do it of course.

Of course it needs to. That right there is more than anything Surfer has ever done.

Heck, Hercules has blitzed hulk

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111171014/4509373-3722965943-hercu.jpg

Hercules is a speester too, eh?

Everyone in comics has superspeed if we use your criteria.

Hahaha, what? Alan is punching Hal in the face.

And no, surprising someone isn't superspeed.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15288569& amp;highlight=surfer+super+speed+forumid%3A77+user
id%3A41296#post15288569

...most notably the part where he says "super speed is part of Surfer's powerset. Get over it."

He is at slightly enhanced human level speed as noted in several marvel bios as well. Technically that's superspeed too.

Far below the likes of Spider-Man though who can blitz him at will.

thumb up

But Alan doing it is him just flying with his arm out, eh?

laughing out loud

He is not moving his arm with the same speed as his board. Just like a jet pilot isn't moving his arm at Mach speed.

If only you could do that.

That's not reacting to bullets. Are you really that desperate?

Not even a single bullet feat? Damn.

laughing out loud

What about the likes of Robins and Deathstroke or random Street leveler heroes doing that?

Everyone is protected, eh? Poor Surfer.

Or when he gets his shit kicked in. Durok, Millenius etc.

And almost always physically.
I've already provided several instances where he carried the characters away. Your response" Well, he teleported that robot once. So he will do it everytime. "

What else can you do to someone this dense?

abhilegend

Originally posted by zopzop

https://s27.postimg.org/5sdisniun/silver_surfer_heals_thor_724x1024.jpg
He did the same to another god, Balder.

He didn't raised dead. He healed them.

Don't be foolish.

Superman and Wonder Woman don't have those powers, so can't use them that way.

It's like asking showing Surfer able to tow away earth and declaring him weaksauce.

Green Lanterns have transmuted entire planets. Warlock has done so. Even Black Hand has done so.

Ditto for healing others.

Destroying planets? Green Lanterns have done it, Superman has done it.

Superman has scanned entire Phantom Zone which is limitless in before a statement.

That's not creating life. Here is something better as not able to control his own power.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Kyle and Kilowog create ecosystem of Thanagar and move the planet away from the sun and stabilize its orbit.

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27026088_Rann_Thanagar_09-10.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27026090_Rann_Thanagar_11-12.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27026093_Untitled-Scanned-07.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27026097_Untitled-Scanned-08.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27026101_Untitled-Scanned-20.jpg

No. How is it going to affect anyone?
Only if you think he is the sum of every showing ever. Characters like Captain Atom have actually created universes and destroyed them.

Surfer isn't even the most powerful Herald of Galactus and both Thor and Superman are more powerful in Herald category.

Lulz @ him being a mini cosmic Cube.

Genii96

The mini CCU for the win

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it's based on the actual events from a comic.

I'm reasonably sure psycho is talking about the real world conflict here on our Earth, not something that happened in a comic. Though I suppose we can ask him for clarification if you like.

Originally posted by abhilegend
None of them except FF actually mattered in his attempts to stop war.
You're trying to shift the topic. You acted as if there weren't a lot of superhumans running around in the 60s, I pointed out that there actually were.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't able to transmute Johnny's flame when it was magically altered. There is a clear limitations on his power. And even pretty powerful magic has been unable to transmute Logan's bones.

His transmutation isn't as powerful as you think.

Keyword "magically". He couldn't transmute something that had already basically been magically transmuted. Magic's a powerful thing, that's why you'll never see me saying he could transmute something like Thor's hammer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Do you have anything to suggest Surfer can actually transmute it? You made the claim that he can do it of course.
Yes, he can transmute matter on an atomic level and adamantium is simply matter composed of atoms.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course it needs to. That right there is more than anything Surfer has ever done.

Heck, Hercules has blitzed hulk

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111171014/4509373-3722965943-hercu.jpg

Hercules is a speester too, eh?

Everyone in comics has superspeed if we use your criteria.

Not everyone, but lots of characters have some level of superspeed, yes.

And no, characters powers remain part of their powerset even if they don't showcase them frequently.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, what? Alan is punching Hal in the face.

And no, surprising someone isn't superspeed.

No he's bullrushing him with his arm outstretched. That's in no way equal to Surfer grabbing a character with superspeed by the throat and throwing them so fast that he's totally unseen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He is at slightly enhanced human level speed as noted in several marvel bios as well. Technically that's superspeed too.

Far below the likes of Spider-Man though who can blitz him at will.

thumb up

If he'd meant that, he wouldn't have simply said that Surfer has superspeed. But if you really think that's what he meant, go ahead and ask him for clarification. I'd do it myself, but whenever I ask him to correct you he tells me I should just ignore your nonsense. A direct request from you might net some results though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But Alan doing it is him just flying with his arm out, eh?

laughing out loud

He is not moving his arm with the same speed as his board. Just like a jet pilot isn't moving his arm at Mach speed.

If the jet pilot grabs someone by the throat and throws them and is mistaken for an energy blast, he's moving his arm really, really fast even if it's not as fast as the jet itself is moving.

Originally posted by abhilegend
If only you could do that.

It's what I have been doing. You're just in denial.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not reacting to bullets. Are you really that desperate?

Not even a single bullet feat? Damn.

If you choose to absorb a bullet that's shot at you, it's absolutely reacting to the bullet. Not that I'm trying to make the feat out to be a big deal, you seem to think I'm trying to push the bullet feat. I simply made an offhand comment about it as an after thought to me saying that Surfer doesn't need to catch bullets.

Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

What about the likes of Robins and Deathstroke or random Street leveler heroes doing that?

Everyone is protected, eh? Poor Surfer.

Hey show me Robin casually blocking stuff like Surfer has and you'll have a point. Much less of a point with Deathstroke though, that guy's speed has given Flash and Superman issues too so either he's a true "speedster" even by your definition or he's got his own aura going for him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or when he gets his shit kicked in. Durok, Millenius etc.

And almost always physically.

Who cares if he does it after he gets beat on for a while. I'm not saying he'll do it right out of the gate necessarily, just that he can do it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I've already provided several instances where he carried the characters away. Your response" Well, he teleported that robot once. So he will do it everytime. "

He's not allowed to carry them away in a forum fight abhi, that would be self bfr which isn't allowed. But since he's inclined to bfr and has the ability to bfr WITHOUT carrying them away then he'll do so. That's one of the reasons I pointed out earlier that comic fights don't meet the conditions of forum fights.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What else can you do to someone this dense?

Present an actual case that's based on something other than lowballing and otherwise ignoring forum rules.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm reasonably sure psycho is talking about the real world conflict here on our Earth, not something that happened in a comic. Though I suppose we can ask him for clarification if you like.

I'm reasonably sure that Surfer is a fictional character and thus we can only use his success in those fictional settings to determine how he fares here.

That wasn't my intention. Just to point out none but a handful of them mattered in Surfer attempting to end wars.

Magically altered flame doesn't becomes magical as well. Mjolnir doesn't hits you with magic unless it's energized with lightning.

Surfer has well defined limits. It's not like he can transmute anything willy nilly.

That's as idiotic reasoning as anything I've ever seen.

What's the toughest thing Surfer has ever transmuted? Answer that and you'll know why he can't transmute adamantium.

Can he transmute Cap's shield though? Must be easy for him, right?

Yeah, Surfer is below Hercules and Lobo in speed. Glad we agree.

Not if they aren't even supposed to have that power. Nobody thinks Hercules has superspeed because he blitzed Hulk that one time.

He punched Hal. He didn't tackle Hal. What a load of rubbish.

Yeah, it's far superior. Alan hit him with the same speed at which he traveled from Earth to Oa.

That's a speed Surfer can only dream about. And Surfer surprised Nova, that's why he couldn't see him.

Later he had no issues tracking him or even hitting him.

Your desperation is laughable.

Why would I do that? I don't need a mod ruling to know Surfer has shit superspeed.

He might be slightly faster than an average peak human though.

Not if its by surprise. If someone slaps you from behind while moving in a 40 mph vehicle, he doesn't gets superspeed of 40 mph.

And seriously, is that the only showing you have? Your whole argument is Surfer surprising Nova?

Hahaha, the sheer denial here is palpable.

But its not a reaction speed. Surfer's durability means that the bullets will lose all momentum upon contact and he can absorb them easily.

You don't have a single bullet catching feat? Pitiful.

Ask and you shall receive.

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad166/themanwonder/Agility-Speed/supermanbatman55-batvision.jpg

That's infinitely more impressive than Surfer.
And this one is with a broken leg.

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad166/themanwonder/Agility-Speed/batman637-amazovision1.jpg
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad166/themanwonder/Agility-Speed/batman637-amazovision2.jpg

Cue massive hand waving about how Nightwing bullrushed HV.

Not if he gets punched or blasted to sleep and loses.

That's not self BFR if both opponents leave the battlefield.

Are you really this dense?
Present a case based on something. Not from your own imagination.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm reasonably sure that Surfer is a fictional character and thus we can only use his success in those fictional settings to determine how he fares here.

No that's not how it works. By the same token if a thread was created asking if Dr. Doom(or some other character) could permanently take over OUR Earth, we wouldn't automatically say that he couldn't because he never managed to permanently take over Marvel Earth. This is a purely theoretical scenario set on THIS Earth.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That wasn't my intention. Just to point out none but a handful of them mattered in Surfer attempting to end wars.

Yes but their simple existence changed the way people thought. People on our planet don't have any of those types of experiences.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Magically altered flame doesn't becomes magical as well. Mjolnir doesn't hits you with magic unless it's energized with lightning.

Surfer has well defined limits. It's not like he can transmute anything willy nilly.

I'm not saying he can transmute anything willy nilly, I'm saying he can transmute anything lacking an on panel or at least logical resistance to it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's as idiotic reasoning as anything I've ever seen.

What's the toughest thing Surfer has ever transmuted? Answer that and you'll know why he can't transmute adamantium.

Can he transmute Cap's shield though? Must be easy for him, right?

No it's logic and forum standards at work. We don't assume characters powers fail unless proven otherwise, we assume they succeed unless there's an on panel or logical reason that they don't.

I'm honestly unsure about Cap's shield, it gets treated a bit weird. There's been times when it was even shown to be immune to Magneto's powers back in the day, plus that time where Molecule Man noted how it's make up was even more bizarre than Surfer's board or Thor's hammer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, Surfer is below Hercules and Lobo in speed. Glad we agree.

Absolutely not, neither of them have feats as impressive as Surfer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not if they aren't even supposed to have that power. Nobody thinks Hercules has superspeed because he blitzed Hulk that one time.

Herc DOES have some level of superspeed. And Surfer has even more.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He punched Hal. He didn't tackle Hal. What a load of rubbish.

I didn't say he did tackle Hal, I said he flew at him with his fist outstretched, that's a bulrush. You could build a human sized shaped statue in Alan's pose and launch him at someone at such speed that it would be invisible to the naked eye. On the other hand, you'd have to build a a complex robot type with impressive speed to manually grab the guy and throw him away without being seen.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Yeah ,it's far superior. Alan hit him with the same speed at which he traveled from Earth to Oa.

That's a speed Surfer can only dream about. And Surfer surprised Nova, that's why he couldn't see him.

Later he had no issues tracking him or even hitting him.

Your desperation is laughable.

Alan was a dart, Surfer took a complex action. He went at Nova head on and took the action without even being seen. That's impressive speed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would I do that? I don't need a mod ruling to know Surfer has shit superspeed.

He might be slightly faster than an average peak human though.

The Mod ruling has already been made I'm saying you should seek clarification of the ruling... I mean unless you're afraid of the answer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not if its by surprise. If someone slaps you from behind while moving in a 40 mph vehicle, he doesn't gets superspeed of 40 mph.

And seriously, is that the only showing you have? Your whole argument is Surfer surprising Nova?

Surfer didn't attack from behind, he attacked from in front. If you're traveling fast enough to be invisible from the front, grab someone, and throw them without being seen... that shows superhuman arm speed. It's superhuman speed against a regular person, let alone someone who has superhuman speed/reflexes themselves. For that matter, if the car's moving so fast that it's invisible to the naked eye and you can slap someone as you pass even from behind... that's super speed too cause humans don't have that kind of reactions. A human couldn't do that if the car was moving 300 miles an hour, let alone the speed Surfer was traveling

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, the sheer denial here is palpable.

I know, with every post I've thought you've exhibited as much of it as is humanly possible but you just keep showing more and more.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But its not a reaction speed. Surfer's durability means that the bullets will lose all momentum upon contact and he can absorb them easily.

You don't have a single bullet catching feat? Pitiful.

If that were the case they'd reflect off or(far less likely) fall to the ground. If he's absorbing them while they're still in contact with him before they reflect off or fall... that's super speed/reflexes too. And again, I'm not actually making that much of the feat because it was one of those things that took place in a single panel and is therefore ambiguous, you seem to be really fixating on something that I just threw in there as an afterthought.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ask and you shall receive.

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad166/themanwonder/Agility-Speed/supermanbatman55-batvision.jpg

That's infinitely more impressive than Surfer.
And this one is with a broken leg.

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad166/themanwonder/Agility-Speed/batman637-amazovision1.jpg
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad166/themanwonder/Agility-Speed/batman637-amazovision2.jpg

Cue massive hand waving about how Nightwing bullrushed HV.

That's not the same thing at all. In my example Surfer was standing stationary with his arms at his side while we see Ikaris's eyeblast in the air and then Surfer raised his hand to casually block them. Keeping ahead of targeting IS common among street level guys, actually reacting when the laser is 100% on target and in motion isn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not if he gets punched or blasted to sleep and loses.

Surfer's got the speed and durability to keep that from happening before he decides to use a BFR.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not self BFR if both opponents leave the battlefield.
Are you really this dense?

If he's choosing to voluntarily leave the battlefield it IS self bfr. Mod's made that kind of thing clear when they said that Supes wasn't allowed to drag his opponent to the sun so he could sundip.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Present a case based on something. Not from your own imagination.

I have been. My case is based on on panel showings and logic.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
No that's not how it works. By the same token if a thread was created asking if Dr. Doom(or some other character) could permanently take over OUR Earth, we wouldn't automatically say that he couldn't because he never managed to permanently take over Marvel Earth. This is a purely theoretical scenario set on THIS Earth.

Because you say so? Doom has taken over the marvel earth and subjugating other persons is far easier than letting them decide if they want to end war. Surfer can kill everyone to stop the war. Easily done.

People will adapt. That's what they do here too.

So now you think he can't transmute everything? What happened with "Atoms"

And yes, Adamantium is quite tough I hear.

And yes, we do. That's what is called law of averages. Hercules isn't going to blitz someone in a thread.

But its made of atoms and hence Surfer can easily transmute it right? How about Infinity Gauntlet? Made of atoms only, eh?

They both have actually blitzed characters which Surfer has never done.

Haha, no. Even Marvel doesn't think Surfer has superhuman reflexes.

http://s6d4.turboimagehost.com/t/29005374_SilverSurfer_Speed_difference.jpg

Enhanced human reflexes and Warp level speed.

No, it is not. He punched him in the mouth after reaching there. He didn't fly from Earth with his arm stretched. What an idiocy.

No, it is certainly not that way. When Surfer can actually do that without element of surprise, do let me know.

Alan actually punched Hal in the mouth. Surfer took Nova by surprise.

Alan actually showed combat speed. Surfer only showed flight speed.

No ruling is done on what level of speed he is at. Even enhanced human level speed is superhuman.

What, you afraid to argue on actual comics?

Its by surprise. Elektra and Wolverine have both done so.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/4060350-7936719477-Elekt.jpg

She actually took his gun so fast he didn't notice.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/99065/3551367-5622805782-wolve.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/99065/3551368-1147074731-fastt.jpg

Now those are actual complex speed feats. As Nova wasn't prepared, he is basically human level reflexes level.

That's why he is slightly enhanced human level. As I was saying from start.

Oh the irony here.

What an idiocy. He isn't shown reacting to bullets, just absorbing the bullets.

http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/31077702_FantasticFour157-11.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/31077703_FantasticFour157-12.jpg

And once again, he is shown stopping bullets with a force field and unable to react to bullets.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/31077772_02-17-11_01_14.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/31077777_02-17-11_01_15.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/31077807_02-17-11_01_16.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/31077850_02-17-11_01_17.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/31077880_02-17-11_01_23.jpg http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/31077909_02-17-11_01_24.jpg

Yes, its more impressive as Batman is actually using superspeed to traget Nightwing. And HV is stated to move at lightspeed and there is no mention of Ikaris' eyebeam speed.

Surfer merely blocked the energy attack which is Batman level speed.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/batvsheatvision2.jpg

Of course it is. Even Katana did it recently.

https://i1.wp.com/thefanboyseo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Suicide-Squad-2016-003-009.jpg

Deathstroke did it too recently.

No, he doesn't.

Not if both the opponents leave the battlefield. And its in his character, even if it is a loss for him.

Superman doesn't drags characters to sun in character.

crylaugh

Surtur

The man with the word "man" in his name.

Yes, Wonder Woman has the word "man" too, but she's female and is too busy making breakfast.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because you say so? Doom has taken over the marvel earth and subjugating other persons is far easier than letting them decide if they want to end war. Surfer can kill everyone to stop the war. Easily done.

No because that's the forum standard. This a theoretical thread involving a real conflict on OUR Earth. Thus, we go by how people on OUR Earth will react.

Originally posted by abhilegend

People will adapt. That's what they do here too.

I'm sure they will... eventually. But they're not going to continue fighting WHILE they adapt to the sudden presence and interference of a godlike being. Where or not they resume fighting later is irrelevant to the thread because psycho wasn't ask for permanent peace.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So now you think he can't transmute everything? What happened with "Atoms"

And yes, Adamantium is quite tough I hear.

I never said that he could transmute everything. I said an on panel or at least logical reason why something would have a resistance. Just being extremely dense isn't a logical resistance when we're talking about transmutation on an atomic level.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And yes, we do. That's what is called law of averages. Hercules isn't going to blitz someone in a thread.

No we don't. Powers are assumed to work unless there's a justifiable reason that they wouldn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But its made of atoms and hence Surfer can easily transmute it right? How about Infinity Gauntlet? Made of atoms only, eh?

As I said, I could see Cap's shield going either way depending on who's writing it because it's sometimes seen as an especially unique item. If Surfer ever transmutes it by rewriting it's atomic structure I certainly wouldn't push it as some huge feat for Surfer, and if he failed I wouldn't be trying to call BS either. When the premier matter manipulator in comics specifically notes just how crazy it's make up is and then screws up putting it back together(as revealed in a later arc) it's totally justifiable to say that Surfer might not being able to transmute the thing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
They both have actually blitzed characters which Surfer has never done.

Sure he has, you're just threatened by Surfer so you lowball him whenever you can.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, no. Even Marvel doesn't think Surfer has superhuman reflexes.

Enhanced human reflexes and Warp level speed.

Bios... really? Celey is going to be thrilled lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it is not. He punched him in the mouth after reaching there. He didn't fly from Earth with his arm stretched. What an idiocy.

You have any proof of that cause all I see is Alan flying into him with his fist outstretched.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it is certainly not that way. When Surfer can actually do that without element of surprise, do let me know.

It's absolutely that way, you're just like to lowball Surfer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Alan actually punched Hal in the mouth. Surfer took Nova by surprise.

Alan actually showed combat speed. Surfer only showed flight speed.

Keep telling yourself that abhi. Alan's feat could be accomplished with a statue and a giant slingshot.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No ruling is done on what level of speed he is at. Even enhanced human level speed is superhuman.

What, you afraid to argue on actual comics?

And you definitely don't want clarification on what he meant... right?

I'm arguing based on comics, you've just fallen back into your pattern of lowballing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its by surprise. Elektra and Wolverine have both done so.

She actually took his gun so fast he didn't notice.

Now those are actual complex speed feats. As Nova wasn't prepared, he is basically human level reflexes level.

That feat clearly shows that Electra has some level of super speed, nothing more. Totally acceptable because Electra has other superhuman abilities as well. And why was she able to do it? Because she's FASTER than the Punisher. By the same token, Surfer's FASTER than Nova who himself has actual "speedster" type super speed.

Your Wolverine example falls short though. He obviously didn't move so fast that he was invisible because they knew he just did something. They just didn't know what because there was no immediate effect.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why he is slightly enhanced human level. As I was saying from start.

It would only require slightly enhanced speed to do it at 300 mph, it would take far more to do it at the speeds Surfer travels at.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What an idiocy. He isn't shown reacting to bullets, just absorbing the bullets.

You're using an example where his powers are quite obviously on the fritz in the very scans you post?! Could you be anymore desperate to lowball Surfer?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, its more impressive as Batman is actually using superspeed to traget Nightwing. And HV is stated to move at lightspeed and there is no mention of Ikaris' eyebeam speed.

Surfer merely blocked the energy attack which is Batman level speed.

OMG, Batman's not doing the same thing at all. He's being attacked by a continuous, visible stream of heat vision and he holds up a mirror to intercept when it reaches him. That's not the same as reacting as Surfer did at the outset of the blast. By the same token, if you see a stream of automatic gunfire is about to reach you it's entirely possible to hold up a shield to block it. That doesn't mean that you'd be able to raise a shield to intercept even a single bullet after it's been fired.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course it is. Even Katana did it recently.

Deathstroke did it too recently.

We don't see the eyeblast on actually on course to hit Katanna and then see Katanna raise her sword to block it there. That IS one of those ambiguous feats that street level guys get. That's more like the time Surfer blocked Firelord's eyeblast from close range, which I don't make out to be a big deal because of the ambiguous nature of it. In the instance with Ikaris however, it's plain as day that the blast is in the air on it's way toward Surfer while he stands there with his hands at his sides, and then Surfer raises his hand to block it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he doesn't.

Sure he does. If he can take shots from the likes of Hulk, Thor, and Millinius he's not getting one shotted by the General.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not if both the opponents leave the battlefield. And its in his character, even if it is a loss for him.

Superman doesn't drags characters to sun in character.

Yes it's still self BFR, as I said the mods already declared that kind of thing long ago when certain people would talk about Supes dragging his opponents to the sun the way he did against DS and WW. I don't fault you for not knowing about it because it was before you were a member, but it's the way it is.

And really... you're saying that Surfer's going to intentionally forfeit the match? That's ridiculous even by your standards.

Originally posted by abhilegend
crylaugh
Laugh if you want, but it's obvious to everyone but you. And actually it's probably obvious to you too, it's just not in your nature to ever concede anything in Surfer's favor.

*Edit- I had to delete the link from your scans because they put my response over the 10,000 character limit.

darthgoober

Wow KMC is having some serious issues right now, for some reason I can't even quote your post, the box is totally blank when I try. I'll still do my best to respond properly for now, hopefully the thing will be working again tomorrow.

No NOT based on how he does on Marvel Earth because there are extreme differences between Marvel Earth and OUR Earth.

Read the opening post again abhi, he's asking for CONFLICT RESOLUTION not a permanent state of peace. Even a temporary cease fire qualifies as resolving the current conflict. Do we really need to get psycho to clarify this point?

No it's not. Again you're making a claim about the limits of his power based off of literally NOTHING.

There are just no words... Hey if you personally believe that all powers are assumed to fail until proven otherwise then that's on you.

No it's not just the same with adamantium because adamantium doesn't have those showings and nothing in those showings suggest such a carry over.

Him being on his board doesn't take away from his arm speed.

Alan leaves the planet with his hands down, that doesn't mean he didn't stretch out his hand before the panel he appeared on with Hal. I'm not saying he made the whole trip in that pose lol

I have proven it. There's a difference between proving your point and getting a concession from someone who simply refuses to admit defeat. Face it, at best I'm Odin and you're Thanos.

You obviously DO need a Mod to clarify a ruling that's so obvious to EVERYBODY else.

lol... Oh just keep telling yourself that abhi, Nova only had human level reflexes when Surfer threw him... that's rich(no pun intended).

He had a forcefield up because he was in combat. That doesn't mean he was worried about being able to dodge the bullets specifically lol

You're kidding right? You can actually see the HV cutting a path along the ground as it heads towards Bats while he's reaching for the mirror.

In the scan you posted he spends multiple panels continuously blasting her sword. So either he's just that dumb OR he thought he'd be able to blast through it/overpower it.

Wolverine's not doing the exact same thing. He's blocking them in the same panel we see them headed towards him. Same thing with Cap

I'd like to see this instance of Thor one shotting Surfer, because I'm totally unaware of it. If you're talking about B&T then Surfer had already taken shots in the fight before Thor KO'd him. Hell he was in close quarters combat for an unspecified amount of time off panel RIGHT before Thor KO'd him.

They said nothing about it being out of character, they said it'd be self bfr.

Because characters are trying to WIN forum fights, that's the whole point. No character just decides to forfeit a thread.

Again, I have proven it. You've just reached the point where you plug you ears.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wow KMC is having some serious issues right now, for some reason I can't even quote your post, the box is totally blank when I try. I'll still do my best to respond properly for now, hopefully the thing will be working again tomorrow.

Excuses, excuses.

But Surfer doesn't exist here and only through his success rate in Marvel earth, it can be decided. So nope.

Conflict resolution means exactly that. Not temporary truce by force.

And you're using no limit fallacy. It's not my onus to prove he can't transmute Adamantium.

Except you haven't proven anything remotely that Surfer can transmute Adamantium. Just because he can manipulate atoms doesn't means he can transmute anything.

So get on to it.

It has its own beastly showings.

https://m.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2xvj89/respect_ultron/

Go there if you want.

Of course it does. How fast was his arm moving?

So you can't prove it but somehow I have to accept he just outstretched his arm and clothesline Hal?

Sorry pal, contact a mod and have him make a ruling.

You've proven nothing at all. Repeating yourself with zero proofs isn't proving anything.

You're simply getting curbstomped like Blood and Thunder Silver Surfer.

Of course not. I don't need a ruling at all to know Surfer has enhanced human reflexes.

Concession accepted. When you have something of worth, let Pr know.

He will make a ruling for you!!!!

No, but he knew he can't catch the bullets from hurting others.

A Speedster would just pluck the bullets out of the air.

He is stopping for a quick burst of HV. Can you read at all?

Or she blocked it as it happened. She is just that good.

http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp176/Strafe_Prower/BlockingbeamsofLight.jpg

She is specifically redirecting several beams of light and they are fired in the same panel!

I want to know what will be the excuse now!

So, we are counting panels now, eh? How much time passed between one panel to another?

Surfer merely raised his hand. Logan swung his whole arm and batted the blast away. Unless you think Cap had his shield raised the whole time that is.

It is far more impressive than Surfer's feat.

There was a substantial gap between the first fight where Thor just slapped Surfer aside. Then Surfer stopped holding back and got KTFO in one hit.

Later in Warlock 23, Thor again KTFO him in two-three attacks.

Link please.

If characters are as idiotic as Surfer, why not?
Haha, sure. Tell me again how fast Surfer is. I'm going to enjoy wrecking you again.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
Excuses, excuses.

laughing

Originally posted by abhilegend
But Surfer doesn't exist here and only through his success rate in Marvel earth, it can be decided. So nope.

Conflict resolution means exactly that. Not temporary truce by force.

No we use logic, common sense, and knowledge of people on OUR Earth to decide it. It's a totally theoretical question because it's set HERE, not Marvel Earth.

So we do need to ask psycho to clarify? Ok I'll PM him and ask.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And you're using no limit fallacy. It's not my onus to prove he can't transmute Adamantium.

Except you haven't proven anything remotely that Surfer can transmute Adamantium. Just because he can manipulate atoms doesn't means he can transmute anything.

So get on to it.

I've never said it's an ability without limits. I specifically pointed out that I'd never say he could transmute Thor's hammer and that Cap's shield could go either way. There just needs to be SOMETHING to suggest that an item/substance would have such a resistance.

And yes, if you're claiming a character's established power won't work you need some kind of proof to base it on.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It has its own beastly showings.

https://m.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2xvj89/respect_ultron/

Go there if you want.

He never resisted transmutation there.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course it does. How fast was his arm moving?

Too fast for a speedster like Nova to see even though it was right in front of him wink

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you can't prove it but somehow I have to accept he just outstretched his arm and clothesline Hal?

Sorry pal, contact a mod and have him make a ruling.

That's just it abhi, it's ambiguous and therefor not a definitive showing of combat speed. And mods don't rule on specific panels that are open to interpretation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You've proven nothing at all. Repeating yourself with zero proofs isn't proving anything.

You're simply getting curbstomped like Blood and Thunder Silver Surfer.

Sure I have, just ask the onlookers.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Of course not. I don't need a ruling at all to know Surfer has enhanced human reflexes.

So if I were to look around I'd be totally unable to find any quotes from you saying Surfer doesn't have super speed?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Concession accepted. When you have something of worth, let Pr know.

He will make a ruling for you!!!!

Pr just tells me I should ignore you lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, but he knew he can't catch the bullets from hurting others.

A Speedster would just pluck the bullets out of the air.

Wasn't there a scene where Supes was unable to catch some bullets being fired at some soldiers?

Originally posted by abhilegend
He is stopping for a quick burst of HV. Can you read at all?

Again, you can clearly see the HV cutting a path along the ground in the panel where Batman is stopped and reaching for the mirror.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or she blocked it as it happened. She is just that good.

http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp176/Strafe_Prower/BlockingbeamsofLight.jpg

She is specifically redirecting several beams of light and they are fired in the same panel!

I want to know what will be the excuse now!

It's the same as the scene with Logan. Impossible to determine because it's all taking place in the same panel. Again, that IS the kind of feat that street level guys get all the time. The feat with Surfer/Ikaris ISN'T. That's why you don't seem to be able to find any scans of street level guys doing it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So, we are counting panels now, eh? How much time passed between one panel to another?

Surfer merely raised his hand. Logan swung his whole arm and batted the blast away. Unless you think Cap had his shield raised the whole time that is.

It is far more impressive than Surfer's feat.

The multiple panels are what remove ambiguity from Surfer's feat because we specifically see the blast headed towards him while his arms are down in one and then him block it before it hits in the next. With Wolverine and Cap we don't have that kind of knowledge.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There was a substantial gap between the first fight where Thor just slapped Surfer aside. Then Surfer stopped holding back and got KTFO in one hit.

Later in Warlock 23, Thor again KTFO him in two-three attacks.

No there wasn't a "substantial gap". It was all one fight, ergo Surfer wasn't "one shotted".

Originally posted by abhilegend
Link please.

It was years ago, I didn't save the link lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
If characters are as idiotic as Surfer, why not?

Because that's not how things work in a forum fight. Characters in forum fights are trying to WIN. They don't try to reason with their opponents or just throw the fight. They fight to win.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, sure. Tell me again how fast Surfer is. I'm going to enjoy wrecking you again.

Only in your eyes abhi, only in your eyes laughing

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
laughing

I know right.

Still measured by his success in Marvel earth. Surfer doesn't exists in real life.

Yeah, run away to someone again. That's your whole schtick.

So what's the limit?

Yeah, Adamantium is just slightly less dense than Cap shield. That's in itself is enough.

I don't need to. You don't ask why Spider-Man can't break Adamantium.

You need to prove he can transmute it. Not the other way around.

Yeah right. One Adamantium ultron casually shrugged off attacks from Surfer and dozens of heavy hitters with Kang.

Surprise attack. Even Alan has moved so fast that Wally himself couldn't see him when he caught him by surprise.

And Nova is at the bottom level of speedsters. He can't even maneuver at Mach speeds lol.

No, it is not. You are always welcome to run to Pr though.

Who cares about others?

Sure, go ahead.

So run away like the sissy you are.

thumb up

There is quite a bit of context in that scene. I don't think you will understand though.

And you want me to post Superman catching bullets, eh?

So you're unable to read. Got it.

Katana did actually better than Surfer. First you ask that Logan is in a different panel when the blast is fired bug when I post Katana deflecting several light beams it's invalid because it's in the same panel?

Stay on the same logic will you? This is just hilarious.

Yes, we do. That's why Logan is swinging his arm to bat the blast away.

It's far Superior to Surfer merely raising his hand.

No, it wasn't. Bill occupied Thor in the middle while Surfer was knocked out.

So no proof. Good to know.

In character. And it's in character for Surfer to physically BFR opponents.

That's quite enough for me.

Surtur

Superman has indeed done the whole "pluck bullets out of the air" thing. Catching bullets is childs play for him.

psycho gundam

About the peace in Syria one: it's ending the conflict AND bringing about some form of resolution that keeps the region stable for as long as possible, kinda like hos the American civil war hasn't had any real cause for a part 2

You can go extreme with it cause there is a difference between cheating on a test and getting a B and then there is making it so that you never have to come in to school again but you never get anything lower than an A- ever again

darthgoober

Originally posted by psycho gundam
About the peace in Syria one: it's ending the conflict AND bringing about some form of resolution that keeps the region stable for as long as possible, kinda like hos the American civil war hasn't had any real cause for a part 2

You can go extreme with it cause there is a difference between cheating on a test and getting a B and then there is making it so that you never have to come in to school again but you never get anything lower than an A- ever again
But not actually peace permanantly right? Like even though Germany's involvement in WW2 happened, the end of World War 1 was conflict resolution. Do that actually have to guarantee that the guys are NEVER going to war again? How would ANY character be able to guarantee that kind of thing?

Surtur

Originally posted by darthgoober
But not actually peace permanantly right? Like even though Germany's involvement in WW2 happened, the end of World War 1 was conflict resolution.

One of the things that primed Germany for the nazi's and for WW2 was the way we handled the resolution of WW1.

So when peace is made we need to look at how it was made to determine how long it potentially will last.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by darthgoober
But not actually peace permanantly right? Like even though Germany's involvement in WW2 happened, the end of World War 1 was conflict resolution. Do that actually have to guarantee that the guys are NEVER going to war again? How would ANY character be able to guarantee that kind of thing? Germany was in economic turmoil after the first world war and that's where H****r galvanized the pain and sorrow with the whole workers party thing x scapegoating + the treaty of Versailles issue ^ outside forces helped fund the rejuvenation (see: USA) = WWII wasn't far off in the future.

Anyway...Every hero can end a conflict in an unstable state but who can keep the peace longer? That's the question really cause a ceasefire is cool and all but that's just an opportunity to reload half the time

darthgoober

Originally posted by Surtur
One of the things that primed Germany for the nazi's and for WW2 was the way we handled the resolution of WW1.

So when peace is made we need to look at how it was made to determine how long it potentially will last.
Yeah but we're still talking about 2 different conflicts. If the requirement is PERMENANT peace... well that's impossible to determine because time's still marching on. There has never been a war that can be said to have ended FOREVER in the history of the world because the Earth hasn't ended yet.

I mean it's psycho's thread so obviously he can set the standard wherever he want, I'm just pointing out that what he's asking for goes well beyone simple "conflict resolution" as put forth in the opening post.

darthgoober

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Germany was in economic turmoil after the first world war and that's where H****r galvanized the pain and sorrow with the whole workers party thing x scapegoating + the treaty of Versailles issue ^ outside forces helped fund the rejuvenation (see: USA) = WWII wasn't far off in the future.

Anyway...Every hero can end a conflict in an unstable state but who can keep the peace longer? That's the question really cause a ceasefire is cool and all but that's just an opportunity to reload half the time

Awesome, thanks for the clarification. So it's not achieving a benchmark of "permanant peace", just who can end the fighting, repair all the damage done, and keep the people happy and away from each others throats the longest, right?

Also, are we assuming the character's reputation as fictional characters are carrying over into the resolution? Like if Supes touches down on the battlefield are the army's going to recognize him as "Superman, the guy from the comicbooks"?

DarkSaint85

All the characters fly the Earth into the Sun, permanent peace sorted.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by darthgoober
Awesome, thanks for the clarification. So it's not achieving a benchmark of "permanant peace", just who can end the fighting, repair all the damage done, and keep the people happy and away from each others throats the longest, right?

Also, are we assuming the character's reputation as fictional characters are carrying over into the resolution? Like if Supes touches down on the battlefield are the army's going to recognize him as "Superman, the guy from the comicbooks"? Reputation doesn't matter. All of them will just be people in costumes that descend from the sky which may be enough to earn respect alone

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
Still measured by his success in Marvel earth. Surfer doesn't exists in real life.

Yes but the question that's been put forth is in regards to him existing in real life. Ergo, we fall back on the theoretical.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, run away to someone again. That's your whole schtick.

Seeking clarification so we don't have to waste time on pointless tangents isn't running away. And you should be glad I did because now we have a better understanding of what psycho was looking for. Turns out that it's somewhere in the middle between what each of us was saying. But Surfer's still the better man for the job lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
So what's the limit?

The limit's never been spelled out in black and white so that question is impossible to answer. But you'll never see me saying that he can definitely transmute something that's shown a resistance to transmutation.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, Adamantium is just slightly less dense than Cap shield. That's in itself is enough.

There's more going on with Cap's shield than density, as specifically commented on by Molecule Man.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't need to. You don't ask why Spider-Man can't break Adamantium.

You need to prove he can transmute it. Not the other way around.

We've seen Spider-Man try and fail to break things less durable than adamantium. We haven't seen Surfer fail to transmute things just because they were "too durable/dense" to do so.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah right. One Adamantium ultron casually shrugged off attacks from Surfer and dozens of heavy hitters with Kang.

You mean the version of Ultron that wasn't made of Adamantium but a Adamantium/Vibranium alloy that's equated to Cap's shield? Something tells me that "Ultron and Surfer from an alternate future" isn't the versions psycho has lined up here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surprise attack. Even Alan has moved so fast that Wally himself couldn't see him when he caught him by surprise.

And Nova is at the bottom level of speedsters. He can't even maneuver at Mach speeds lol.
He actually took a complex action against Wally from in front and was invisible to him?

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it is not. You are always welcome to run to Pr though.

Of course it is. And going to PR would be pointless because he's not going to make a ruling on the interpretation of a single panel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who cares about others?

The whole point of a debate is to sway the people watching. You're lack of concern for accomplishing that simple goal is why you lose virtually every debate.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure, go ahead.

And what kind of concession do I get if I find such a quote from you?

Originally posted by abhilegend
So run away like the sissy you are.

thumb up

Wow you seem to take all of this REALLY personally lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
There is quite a bit of context in that scene. I don't think you will understand though.

And you want me to post Superman catching bullets, eh?

I don't question Supes's ability to catch bullets, my point is that a showing like that doesn't take away from a characters established speed silly.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you're unable to read. Got it.

I read every word. And no where did it say that it was anything other than a stream of HV. And since we clearly see the HV cutting a path towards Batman I think my interpretation is spot on.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Katana did actually better than Surfer. First you ask that Logan is in a different panel when the blast is fired bug when I post Katana deflecting several light beams it's invalid because it's in the same panel?

Stay on the same logic will you? This is just hilarious.

I'm using the same logic. In the scan with Logan we don't see Logan's position when the blast is fired and in route. In the scan with Katana there's obviously and ambiguous time elapse happening within the panel. In Surfer's confrontation with Ikaris we see Surfer standing with his arms at his sides as the blast is fired and heads towards him, then in the next panel he raises his hand before it hits him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, we do. That's why Logan is swinging his arm to bat the blast away.

It's far Superior to Surfer merely raising his hand.

No we don't, it's ambiguous. Maybe they're reacting to seeing him press the button on his visor or some such thing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it wasn't. Bill occupied Thor in the middle while Surfer was knocked out.

Here's the whole thing, point to where Surfer is one shotted because I'm just not seeing it...

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS1.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS2.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS3.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS4.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS5.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS6.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS7.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS9.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS10.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS11.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS12.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS13.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS14.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS15.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS16.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS17.jpg
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Thor%20Feats/?action=view&current=SilverS18.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
So no proof. Good to know.

I'm not saying that you should just take my word for it, feel free to ask.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In character. And it's in character for Surfer to physically BFR opponents.

Characters don't violate the rules. Surely you can understand such a thing?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's quite enough for me.

Good thing lol

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but the question that's been put forth is in regards to him existing in real life. Ergo, we fall back on the theoretical.

And here you go again. You are just making new feats for Surfer because you don't have any such feat from him.

Haha no, only thick minds like you do that. Me, I already know what something means.

So, no limit fallacy it is.

Like what?

So no limit fallacy. Good thing to know that you have nothing else.

And Adamantium is only slightly less durable than that alloy.

Kang was recruiting characters from the past, not future.

Yes. Wally couldn't even blink.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31161060_Green_Lantern_-_Flash_-_Faster_Friends_02-42.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31161061_Green_Lantern_-_Flash_-_Faster_Friends_02-43.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31161062_Green_Lantern_-_Flash_-_Faster_Friends_02-44.jpg

Nov could at least know something hit him.

So you have nothing and I'm supposed to take you on your word? Sorry chump.

Then how it is that I win everytime against you?

Nothing of course. I'm not the kind of poster I was years ago like you. I'm always learning new things.

Not even close chump. But keep guessing.

But surfer has never caught bullets. SO of course it raises questions on his ability to actually catch one.

Superman is an established speedster.

Better luck next time chump.

Its not. Its a burst of HV which Batman deflects. Not a continuous beam of HV which slowly comes towrads him.

But we do see him swing so it means he was in a different position.

No, it is not. Its all happening in quick bursts of speed.

Which is slow as **** compared to Katana deflecting several light beams from different positions. And Surfer's arm is already outstretched in the first panel and even Super Skrull is able to see the blast coming and chat with Surfer.

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/31161074_SSANN01_15a.jpg

That's a slow as **** block if anything. Compare that to this thing of beauty.

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/31161091_BlockingbeamsofLight.jpg

There is not even comparison between two.

No, they are not. And how is Cap deflecting the ricocheting blast seeing Scott's face?

Right here.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/31161087_SS_v3_086_15a.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/31161088_SS_v3_086_15b.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/31161089_SS_v3_086_16a.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/31161090_SS_v3_086_16b.jpg

He wasn't even holding back.

Strangely I looked into the rules thread and there was no such rule.

Yep, I'm going to wreck you again.

Maybe this time you don't cry and leave the forum again.

"Id"

Can we just have a battlezone between Ahbi Superman vs Goobers Surfer?

psycho gundam

I made that back in the day. It's in the battlezone forum

abhilegend

Originally posted by "Id"
Can we just have a battlezone between Ahbi Superman vs Goobers Surfer?
I already asked him. Goober ran away.

laughing out loud

quanchi112

Originally posted by "Id"
Can we just have a battlezone between Ahbi Superman vs Goobers Surfer? Abhi lost his shit in one post.

"Id"

Originally posted by psycho gundam
I made that back in the day. It's in the battlezone forum

Link me.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
And here you go again. You are just making new feats for Surfer because you don't have any such feat from him.

I'm not making up any feats for Surfer, I'm talking about him doing stuff that he's done in the past. Destroying armies weapons, done. Repairing buildings, done. Healing people, done.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha no, only thick minds like you do that. Me, I already know what something means.

Obviously you don't because you were wrong about the requirements for the scenario.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So, no limit fallacy it is.

Nope. Again, you'd never see me saying that he could transmute something like Thor's hammer. And that's even though he has that feat where he arguably transmuted Thor's hammer back to it's original form when it was disguised.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like what?

It's never specified exactly what all is going on with it, just that it's even crazier than Thor's hammer or Surfer's board.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So no limit fallacy. Good thing to know that you have nothing else.

I'm not saying there's no limits on what he can transmute lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
And Adamantium is only slightly less durable than that alloy.

Kang was recruiting characters from the past, not future.

Is it an alternate timeline/universe or not?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Wally couldn't even blink.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31161060_Green_Lantern_-_Flash_-_Faster_Friends_02-42.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31161061_Green_Lantern_-_Flash_-_Faster_Friends_02-43.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/31161062_Green_Lantern_-_Flash_-_Faster_Friends_02-44.jpg

Nov could at least know something hit him.

Well that's nothing more than Wally being written incorrectly across the board because everyone and their dog knows for a fact that Wally>>>>>>>>>>Jay.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you have nothing and I'm supposed to take you on your word? Sorry chump.

I'm not saying that you have to agree with my interpretation, just that it's obviously ambiguous.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Then how it is that I win everytime against you?

It just seems that way to you because you only listen to the voices in your head lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nothing of course. I'm not the kind of poster I was years ago like you. I'm always learning new things.

Wow what happened to your confidence in my being unable to find an instance of you saying that Surfer doesn't have superspeed lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not even close chump. But keep guessing.

Personal attacks like "idiot", "sissy", and "chump" are a pretty clear indication that you ARE taking our little discussions a bit too personally lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
But surfer has never caught bullets. SO of course it raises questions on his ability to actually catch one.

Superman is an established speedster.

Better luck next time chump.

So is Surfer, you just won't accept it lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not. Its a burst of HV which Batman deflects. Not a continuous beam of HV which slowly comes towrads him.

Again abhi, there's a clear depiction of the HV cutting a path along the ground towards Batman when Batman is stopped and reaching for the mirror. And I'm not saying that it's moving SLOWLY, just that it's continuous and visible.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Right here.

http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/31161087_SS_v3_086_15a.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/31161088_SS_v3_086_15b.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/31161089_SS_v3_086_16a.jpg http://s6d6.turboimg.net/t1/31161090_SS_v3_086_16b.jpg

He wasn't even holding back.

You see how Surfer's already on the ground when his board comes back? That's because and Thor had already been fighting while his board made the trip to drop off BRB WHILE he was holding back. And he'd already taken multiple hits from Thor at the outset of the fight. Ergo, not a "one shot".

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ask to whom?

Ask a mod.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Strangely I looked into the rules thread and there was no such rule.

You honestly need to see it written that characters don't voluntarily forfeit forum fights?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yep, I'm going to wreck you again.

Maybe this time you don't cry and leave the forum again.

laughing out loud

Weren't you the one who was ready to leave the forum because Pr compared you to carver? As I recall, he actually had to sooth that burn a bit and explain that it wasn't a matter of him not liking you the way you were claiming. You're hardly in a position to criticize someone deciding to walk away WITHOUT causing a public scene over a disagreement with a Mod.

darthgoober

Originally posted by "Id"
Link me.
The whole thread was deleted. I made my opening post, abhi threw a fit and refused to respond until I made a different opening post, then he started got even madder when the judges told him that I didn't have to make a different post... it was just a big mess. Me and some others saved the screenshots of the whole thing though, I'll PM them to you later when I have time to go through my stuff if you want.

ghostman

Originally posted by darthgoober
The whole thread was deleted. I made my opening post, abhi threw a fit and refused to respond until I made a different opening post, then he started got even madder when the judges told him that I didn't have to make a different post... it was just a big mess. Me and some others saved the screenshots of the whole thing though, I'll PM them to you later when I have time to go through my stuff if you want.

me too. please

darthgoober

It occurs to me that rather than my and abhi's actual battlezone, he may have been talking about his "Surfer vs Supes Tournament Style" thread. That still exists in the BZ forum, here's the link...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=540389&pagenumber=1

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not making up any feats for Surfer, I'm talking about him doing stuff that he's done in the past. Destroying armies weapons, done. Repairing buildings, done. Healing people, done

Never stopped a war fully. Also done.

thumb up

According to whom?

He just displaced it from its other dimensional place.

Adamantium is in the same category of toughness as Mjolnir if you don't know.

So nothing. Good to know. He just said that it has the weirdest molecules he had seen.

That's it.
But Adamantium is within limits without any proof, eh?

It's called having your cake and eat it too.

It's never specified if the characters are from future as you claimed.

Surprise is a *****.

But hey, now when I present a feat which shits all over yours and you have no counter, it just doesn't matters. Because excuses.

laughing out loud

Obviously its not. It doesn't matter if you think it's ambiguous.

That's Randy Orton. I'm just saying what's on page.

You can still go ahead and do it. Did I say otherwise?

Obviously wrong as always. If I ever get personal, you'll know. Trust me you'll know.

Because there is nothing to accept. I've read pretty much every Surfer issue ever and he is never shown as a Speedster.

No, it is not. Get glasses.

Yes.

His board just sent her to Sif who was nearby who teleported with Norn stones.

There is no indication that he took any attacks off panel. The only attack which landed KTFO him.

Why?

That dragging them away somehow means they lose even though both characters leave the battlefield.

Quote the ruling.

And? I didn't, did I?

Really? Because I seem to think otherwise.

And guess whose opinion actually matters to me?

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
It occurs to me that rather than my and abhi's actual battlezone, he may have been talking about his "Surfer vs Supes Tournament Style" thread. That still exists in the BZ forum, here's the link...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=540389&pagenumber=1
Here is my counter argument for all your arguments.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh and superman erases surfer from existence in a fraction of a nanosecond.

Fire away all red sun, kryptonite and energy drain tactics.

thumb up

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
Never stopped a war fully. Also done.

thumb up

Pretty sure he did. I have no problem admitting that I'm less than a 100% certain that there was some kind of actual war(probably civil) going on when Surfer killed this dictator, but I believe there was...

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/mental/FM_1980_011_17.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/mental/FM_1980_011_18.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
According to whom?

According to psycho. It's not about achieving "permanent peace", it's about who can keep them from fighting the longest. Surfer's the clear choice since Supes doesn't have his rep to draw on in this fight and Surfer's able to disarm the armies, repair all the collateral damage, heal people, and that kind of thing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He just displaced it from its other dimensional place.

Adamantium is in the same category of toughness as Mjolnir if you don't know.

I don't shy away from saying that Surfer could transmute the hammer because of how tough it is, but because it's magic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So nothing. Good to know. He just said that it has the weirdest molecules he had seen.

That's it.

And then failed to reassemble it properly. And again, I'm not actually stating that he'd be unable to transmute Cap's shield, just that there's enough to suggest that he may not be able to.

Originally posted by abhilegend
But Adamantium is within limits without any proof, eh?

It's called having your cake and eat it too.

There's no logical reason that it WOULDN'T be within the limits since it's never been stated that toughness is any issue in regards to what he can transmute.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It's never specified if the characters are from future as you claimed.

Hey I got no problem admitting that I'm shaky on the details of the Age of Ultron arc, I just knew it was an alternate universe.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surprise is a *****.

But hey, now when I present a feat which shits all over yours and you have no counter, it just doesn't matters. Because excuses.

laughing out loud

Pointing out that Wally obviously wasn't being handled right isn't just an excuse, it's totally accurate. Especially when you take into consideration that Kyle was able to spring into action at the exact same time.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Obviously its not. It doesn't matter if you think it's ambiguous.

Yes it is, we don't actually see the swing there we only see him with his fist held strait out. What's so hard to understand about that? And according to you, one only wins a debate if he manages to convince his opponent so the simple fact that I believe it's ambiguous means that you've yet to win the exchange on this(or any other) tangent lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's Randy Orton. I'm just saying what's on page.

Sure abhi, sure lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
You can still go ahead and do it. Did I say otherwise?

What would be the point of such a search without some kind of concession from you in regards to it?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Obviously wrong as always. If I ever get personal, you'll know. Trust me you'll know.

Yeah, and I DO know. Such things are personal attacks.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because there is nothing to accept. I've read pretty much every Surfer issue ever and he is never shown as a Speedster.

Sure he is, that's why Pr ruled that he has super speed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it is not. Get glasses.

Yes it is. You can see the line that's being cut on the ground.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes.

His board just sent her to Sif who was nearby who teleported with Norn stones.

There is no indication that he took any attacks off panel. The only attack which landed KTFO him.

The fact that he's on the ground is proof that there was action going on off panel because he wasn't on the ground when the board left. PLUS the attacks he took at the outset of the fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why?

So you know I'm not lying about it of course.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That dragging them away somehow means they lose even though both characters leave the battlefield.

Quote the ruling.

As I said, the ruling was made years ago I don't have it on hand or know where to find it off the top of my head.

And anyway, now you're trying to shift the topic because you've been saying that it's in character for him to forfeit the fight so that's what he'll do.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And? I didn't, did I?

Because Pr talked you down lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? Because I seem to think otherwise.

And guess whose opinion actually matters to me?

Evidently more people's opinion matter to you than you let on or you wouldn't have gotten all huffy about Pr's comment in the first place wink

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah yes, the thread where you essentially asked judges to ignore anything I post because I'm just a liar and you're patron saint of debaters.

And left the forum again because Bada banned you.

laughing out loud

Hey I never said that I'm a saint, I just pointed out your gameplan. And it wouldn't have bothered you if my prediction wasn't spot on. After all, your's is the only opinion you care about right lol

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, no. Even Marvel doesn't think Surfer has superhuman reflexes.

http://s6d4.turboimagehost.com/t/29005374_SilverSurfer_Speed_difference.jpg

crylaugh

Ahh the legendary foot in mouth technique... A staple in Abhi Lowball's debating style. You truly are the gift that keeps on giving.

superdur

Originally posted by abhilegend
When have I ever used bios? The bios are always unreliable.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Never used a bio to prove something out of the comic.

Facee

You know its utter desperation when someone breaks out a handbook. erm

If both parties agree I could set up a match SS vs. Supes for the KMC HH number one ranked position. Think id is still champ in that weight class.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
Pretty sure he did. I have no problem admitting that I'm less than a 100% certain that there was some kind of actual war(probably civil) going on when Surfer killed this dictator, but I believe there was...

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/mental/FM_1980_011_17.jpg
http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/comicsage/Silver%20Surfer/mental/FM_1980_011_18.jpg

Here there is no dictator to kill.

Short term solution only. Superman can change the lives of people with his scientific expertise and end the war for good.

The only reason war exists is because people are not educated and have proper resources.

So nothing but no limit fallacy?

He was unable to transmute Obliterator weapons when they were provided by another elder.

How's that for limitation?

And Doom failed to reassemble it properly. Not Owen.

Toughness is always the only reason to resist transmutation in comics.

Heck, Surfer was koed transmuting a simple wall of matter from Molecule Man.

And couldn't transform the Andes mountain after it was devastated by Beyonder.

There are limits to what he can do. Adamantium is beyond that limit.

That's not Age of Ultron.

laughing out loud

Oh the excuses. Guess what, none of what you say matters.

Quick, to the modmobile!

No, it's not. Keep trying.

I've already won. This is just you trying to drag this by saying as many excuses as you can.

This is amusing.

Good.

Who cares? Go for it if it matters to you.

No, they are not. You may think so if you like. Makes no difference to me.

Slightly above human as I already proved. Far below the likes of Spider-Man.

No, it's not. The HV is coming into bursts.

Or Thor just tackled him as shown.

That was before he stopped holding back and thus from another fight.

There was gap in between as you know.

Who cares? Post Your own proofs.

So you have nothing but your word?

Not good enough.

That's not forfeiting the match as you're unable to post the ruling. It's just BFR at this point.

Not really.

Heh, how little you know chump. Keep trying though.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I never said that I'm a saint, I just pointed out your gameplan. And it wouldn't have bothered you if my prediction wasn't spot on. After all, your's is the only opinion you care about right lol
No, you chickened out because you knew that you couldn't beat me on your own.

And ran away. Like always.

quanchi112

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Ahh the legendary foot in mouth technique... A staple in Abhi Lowball's debating style. You truly are the gift that keeps on giving.

superdur He makes me cringe. No one takes him seriously and he even mocks himself according to his own posts. It's just amusing to humiliate him.

abhilegend

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Ahh the legendary foot in mouth technique... A staple in Abhi Lowball's debating style. You truly are the gift that keeps on giving.

superdur
laughing out loud

As always you're just a fool. Where did I used that bio to prove anything?

I just posted that marvel doesn't believe Surfer has superspeed. Unless you think marvel hasn't published that bio.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Facee
You know its utter desperation when someone breaks out a handbook. erm

.
Oh do shut up wannabe cheerleader.

celeyhyga17

Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

As always you're just a fool. Where did I used that bio to prove anything?

I just posted that marvel doesn't believe Surfer has superspeed. Unless you think marvel hasn't published that bio.
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Loki-Facepalm-Gif-In-The-Avengers.gif

https://sfdcinsea.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/batman-facepalm.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/9d7b6c49d42cc804535ec7104d98244c/tumblr_inline_n36nljazWD1qzjix8.gif

http://k45.kn3.net/taringa/7/7/8/6/0/8/9/moodcool/E1F.gif

quanchi112

Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

As always you're just a fool. Where did I used that bio to prove anything?

I just posted that marvel doesn't believe Surfer has superspeed. Unless you think marvel hasn't published that bio. You just said bios don't prove anything and then just posted a bio as your proof. You contradict yourself and aren't even aware enough to realize how utterly stupid you are.

quanchi112

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh do shut up wannabe cheerleader. Just take the abuse.

abhilegend

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Loki-Facepalm-Gif-In-The-Avengers.gif

https://sfdcinsea.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/batman-facepalm.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/9d7b6c49d42cc804535ec7104d98244c/tumblr_inline_n36nljazWD1qzjix8.gif

http://k45.kn3.net/taringa/7/7/8/6/0/8/9/moodcool/E1F.gif
crylaugh

Did you actually think I was using the bio as a proof?

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here there is no dictator to kill.

I didn't say there was a dictator to kill. I was pointed out that I'm pretty sure he ended a war there cause you said that dispite his efforts he NEVER managed to stop a war.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Short term solution only. Superman can change the lives of people with his scientific expertise and end the war for good.

The only reason war exists is because people are not educated and have proper resources.

So now you accept the theoretical nature of the question posed? Good for you. I doubt that Supes's scientific expertise would do the job for long on THIS Earth though. At least not relative to the type of help Surfer can provide with the power cosmic. That's not to say that Supes wouldn't be able to accomplish a lot of good, just that I think overall Surfer's going to be able to do a lot more.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So nothing but no limit fallacy?

He was unable to transmute Obliterator weapons when they were provided by another elder.

How's that for limitation?

And Doom failed to reassemble it properly. Not Owen.

Not a no limits fallacy. There are plenty of reasons to assume that he can't transmute certain things, it's just that durability isn't one of them because the effect happens on an atomic level.

Being specifically prepped against transmutation from Surfer's power cosmic is a valid explanation of it's resistance. Adamantium doesn't fall into this classification.

Really? I could have sworn it was because of Molecule Man's screw up rather than Doom's, but it's been ages since I read that arc so it's entirely possible you're right about that detail. Still, Molecule Man or Doom with the Beyonder's powers... either way it's at least something to suggest that the stuff of Cap's shield is particularly difficult to work with.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Toughness is always the only reason to resist transmutation in comics.

Heck, Surfer was koed transmuting a simple wall of matter from Molecule Man.

And couldn't transform the Andes mountain after it was devastated by Beyonder.

There are limits to what he can do. Adamantium is beyond that limit.

Again, based on what precedent? When has it ever been stated that toughness is the deciding factor in regards to transmutation on an atomic level?

Molecule Man's more powerful and a better matter manipulator, it makes sense that an attack he was pushing would overtax Surfer.

From what I remember it took the combined efforts of Molecule Man AND Surfer to pull that off in the end so apparently that feat require a LOT of power.

Again, what do you have to suggest that adamantium is beyond that limit?

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not Age of Ultron.

Very possible, still alternate universe and something other than adamantium though. And it's not like Surfer tried and failed to transmute it, he just fired off an energy blast with the rest of the heroes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

Oh the excuses. Guess what, none of what you say matters.

Quick, to the modmobile!

Hey if you want to point to view and instance of 2 humans having the same equal/superior reactions to someone who can react to a surprise attack from a bullet upon feeling it touch his skin as being legit... well then that's on you lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it's not. Keep trying.

Of course it is. But hey, go ahead and deny that all we actually see is his fist held strait out.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I've already won. This is just you trying to drag this by saying as many excuses as you can.

This is amusing.

Again, only in your own mind lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who cares? Go for it if it matters to you.

I'm sure you have so there's really no point. Hell I don't need to convince myself that you've claimed he doesn't have superspeed lol.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, they are not. You may think so if you like. MaIkes no difference to me.

Of course they are lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
Slightly above human as I already proved. Far below the likes of Spider-Man.

You've proven no such thing. And your fear of getting clarification shows that you KNOW you're wrong lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it's not. The HV is coming into bursts.

Yet again, the line being cut is clearly depicted on panel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Or Thor just tackled him as shown.

That was before he stopped holding back and thus from another fight.

There was gap in between as you know.

We don't see Thor tackle him, we see them struggling from a standing position, the scene cuts away while the board flies off, and then we see Surfer on the ground with Thor over him. Who knows what the hell happened in that space of time

It's not from another fight, it's from a different round of the same fight lol.

Not enough to constitute a whole new fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who cares? Post Your own proofs.

So scared to seek clarification on this one too lol

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you have nothing but your word?

Not good enough.

That's why I said to ask a mod if you don't believe me.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not forfeiting the match as you're unable to post the ruling. It's just BFR at this point.

Sure it is. The fight takes place in an arena, if they voluntarily leave the battlefield, it's self BFR.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really.

Heh, how little you know chump. Keep trying though.

Yes really. I can post a link if you like.

darthgoober

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, you chickened out because you knew that you couldn't beat me on your own.

And ran away. Like always.
Hey I was the one trying to get you to debate the topic, you were the one refusing to do so until I made a different opening post lol

quanchi112

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I was the one trying to get you to debate the topic, you were the one refusing to do so until I made a different opening post lol He lost his shit after one post.

abhilegend

Originally posted by darthgoober
I didn't say there was a dictator to kill. I was pointed out that I'm pretty sure he ended a war there cause you said that dispite his efforts he NEVER managed to stop a war.

And the war didn't ended.

And why not? This isn't theoretical BS you are spewing.

What you think is irrelevant. Kindly explain how Superman's scientific expertise isn't going to matter here?

Superman just builds a miracle machine and poof, all problems are gone.

Of course it is no limit fallacy.

So yes, no limit fallacy. If there is no magic or its not Cap's shield, Surfer can transmute everything, eh?

laughing out loud

What would be the limit of Surfer's transmutation then? What is the least toughest thing he can't transmute?

And how did it resist his transmutation? Its made by atoms after all.

Of course it is. Surfer can't transmute something far less tough than adamantium. Using your own logic of Spider-Man, he can't transmute adamantium.

It was Doom. And it only happened because Doom was inexperienced. King Thor and Tony Stark have both repaired Cap's shield after it wad damaged or shattered.

Doesn't mean they are matter manipulators on Molecule Man's level.

Since always? How else an inanimate object resist transmutation?

A simple wall of matter?

http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/31387200_Avengers_216-16.jpg

It wasn't like Owen was personally pitting his power. He just raised a wall of matter.

Remaking Andes? Molecule Man was weakened and holding the earth together.

Surfer was unable to do that alone. Such a mighty transmutator.

Simple, adamantium is tougher than that wall of matter which exhausted Surfer.

If Ultron was just that pansy, Surfer could have just transmuted it? Pity, it didn't come to the writer's mind how omnipotent Surfer actually is.

Still not able to find any single response but your BS how the feat doesn't matter. Yup, you are beaten already.

Of course it is not. He is moving his fist to punch Hal. If his fist was just held straight, Hal would be dragged with it, not moved aside with the punch.

And in comics.

Speak English.

And he has slightly above human level speed. As already proven.

Of course they are not.

But go ahead posting "lol" in every sentence. It only proves you are desperate for last word.

Of course I've done it. Post some more lols though. That will prove me wrong.

No, it is not.

Yes, Thor tackled Surfer and was about to hit him with Mjolnir.

Not really, Surfer was already beaten in first fight. That was second fight.

Of course it does. Just like Surfer fought Thor again in Warlock 23 just a few moments later and it was a new fight.

Haha, oh the idiocy. Should I call Bada to clarify this?

Why would I? You claimed this, now prove it. I'm not going to do your job for you.

Not if both participants leave the field simultaneously.

Yeah, go ahead. I want a good laugh out of this.