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Batman:

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/35D3ugftYZydOeUboE_p4qOhGZ0=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4161072/Screen_Shot_2015-10-14_at_12.49.45_PM__2_.0.png

vs.

Shang Chi:

http://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Shang-Chi-Marvel-Comics-Master-Kung-Fu-f.jpg


Who wins?

you open this? ok then shang chi wins.

Shang Chi.

Batman

If chi manipulation is banned then probably Bats. But if Shang's still allowed to throw his amped punches and such he's got a decent chance of winning.

Originally posted by darthgoober
If chi manipulation is banned then probably Bats. But if Shang's still allowed to throw his amped punches and such he's got a decent chance of winning. this. It's also good to see goober is post semi regularly again.

Yeah, pretty much. Batman is just as good in HTH as Shang, but if Shang pulls out the Chi tricks, he wins. if it's a dojo style fight, Batman would pull a small majority.

Shang/Bronze Tiger
Shang/Richard Dragon would be good fights, too.

Originally posted by Zack M
Batman is just as good in HTH as Shang
No he isnt.
The fact that Shang is so good a MA that he can PERFORM chi manipulation proves that.

Originally posted by riv6672
No he isnt.
The fact that Shang is so good a MA that he can PERFORM chi manipulation proves that.

I'm talking technical skill. Batman has the edge, IMO. He stalemated Karate Kid who is superior to Chi.

Originally posted by Zack M
I'm talking technical skill.
So was i.

Originally posted by Zack M
Batman has the edge, IMO.
His edge is his suit and his gear.

Originally posted by Zack M
He stalemated Karate Kid who is superior to Chi.
ABC logic, mind control, suit and gear...

But hey, it is what it is. We dont often agree so i'm not looking to change your mind.

That I will have to disagree upon. Still going with Batman.

Originally posted by Zack M
That I will have to disagree upon. Still going with Batman.
Like i said...

Batman

Chi amping is part of shang chis skill level. taking away his amping is the same as saying character X can fight, but without this and that technique because its too powerful and nor fair. well its part of his fighting skills.

^^^Whoa.

Shang Chi.

Originally posted by riv6672
No he isnt.
The fact that Shang is so good a MA that he can PERFORM chi manipulation proves that.

See I gotta disagree with you there. I see chi manipution as it's own particular skill outright. Like you can be really skilled at punching, really skilled kicking, really skilled at grappling, really skilled at chi manipulation, etc. After all, chi manipulation is something that they start trying to teach you when you're a white belt and LOTS of high level MAs in comics have mentioned doing it in at least an off hand way. Shang deciding to focus on that particular aspect more doesn't inherantly make him more skilled that Bats in anything OTHER than chi manipulation. That's why when BP was talking about the two he said that Ironfist's chi was mighty, but Shang was the Master of kung fu in a clear implication that Shang was more skilled.

^^^Interesting!

That was Hudlin, wasn't it?

I don't know, Goober, considering what Danny did to T'challa under Priest, sounds like sour grapes to me. (Cage certainly wasn't taking it at face value. )

Originally posted by darthgoober
See I gotta disagree with you there. I see chi manipution as it's own particular skill outright. Like you can be really skilled at punching, really skilled kicking, really skilled at grappling, really skilled at chi manipulation, etc. After all, chi manipulation is something that they start trying to teach you when you're a white belt and LOTS of high level MAs in comics have mentioned doing it in at least an off hand way. Shang deciding to focus on that particular aspect more doesn't inherantly make him more skilled that Bats in anything OTHER than chi manipulation. That's why when BP was talking about the two he said that Ironfist's chi was mighty, but Shang was the Master of kung fu in a clear implication that Shang was more skilled.

Yeah, chi is its own thing. Plus, it's not like batman can't dodge chi strikes.

Originally posted by cdtm
That was Hudlin, wasn't it?

I don't know, Goober, considering what Danny did to T'challa under Priest, sounds like sour grapes to me. (Cage certainly wasn't taking it at face value. )
Oh I'm not saying that Panther's ranking of the two is definitive, just that there's been on panel distiction between skill level and chi level.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh I'm not saying that Panther's ranking of the two is definitive, just that there's been on panel distiction between skill level and chi level.
Yeah, i dont see it as any more definitive than Superman's during the Bats/KK scuffle thats been mentioned.

Val was actually impressed with Batman's skills, while they stalemated. If Batman can stalemate someone on Val's level, Chi would be no problem.

That was clear cut PIS. Unless Batman regularly karate chops apart tanks and catch's bullets and deflects lasers with his cavity fillings.

^^^Pretty much.

Originally posted by cdtm
That was clear cut PIS. Unless Batman regularly karate chops apart tanks and catch's bullets and deflects lasers with his cavity fillings.

He's done some of that. But the fight was a hth fight, which he did stalemate.

In other words, Karate Kid jobbed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
In other words, Karate Kid jobbed.

Val had more hits, but was surprised of his skills. Batman is just that good.

Like I said, KK jobbed.

Nah.

Originally posted by Zack M
Val had more hits, but was surprised of his skills. Batman is just that good. please don't try to wank batman's skill to this obscene level. One guy can literally through kryptonians into different galaxies, injure daxamites, and break substances that are the equivalent of primary adamantium with his bare hands. Kk having any problems with batman is an undeniable example of PIS (either that or valid isn't nearly as good as he's touted as being).

Originally posted by deathslash
please don't try to wank batman's skill to this obscene level. One guy can literally through kryptonians into different galaxies, injure daxamites, and break substances that are the equivalent of primary adamantium with his bare hands. Kk having any problems with batman is an undeniable example of PIS (either that or valid isn't nearly as good as he's touted as being).

Different Val's, bud.

Originally posted by Zack M
Different Val's, bud. and the version of val that batman fought was capable of doing what again?

Originally posted by deathslash
and the version of val that batman fought was capable of doing what again?

Upstaged Ultraboy, Colossal Boy, killed an alien with a ki blow (Think Shang's feat), same alien who was harming several legionaires, etc...

Chi amping as far as shang chi or iron fist, is achieved thru skills and martial art training. at first glance one will say its just a typical projectile. but thats not the case. its not like a mutant or someone with super powers that simply has them. chi amping is being able to direct energies within your body and manipulate them via martial art training. for example, shang chi can amp his hits and make them stronger. would you argue thats a different category? its basically a technique, a fighting technique that allows him to amp his strikes and even durability. or like karate kid. karate kid via his skills and training, achieved levels of striking power durability and speed that can match super humans. so would you say well flash also has super human speed or superman has super human strength so its a different category? for them yes. for him its his skills that pushed him to such level. so for shang chi to use chi amping and make his hits harder, make him more durable or even use projectiles its part of fighting skills and not some outside force.

this statement will probably lead many of you, including me, asking ourselves - what are fighting skills. what is a fighting technique. as someone who trained and to this day trying to find the time to train here and there, i can tell you that fighting skills is not so much about the moves you learn. its not about the punch or the kick or the cool counter. its more about the stats you develop. a punch is a punch, a kick is a kick. but when you train your body to become stronger, faster better, thats part of the training and those are part of fighting skills. to me, thats the case with martial art characters amping their body thru inner energies. thats basically a level of training that enhance their abilities.

as far as batman, his typical and majority of abilities are limited to getting beat by the likes of bane, slade, bronze tiger atc atc. those are his limits. he can maybe win some, definitely lose some, but those are his levels. 1 fight vs karate kid doesnt change his entire history and overall abilities.

Originally posted by Dareangel
Chi amping as far as shang chi or iron fist, is achieved thru skills and martial art training. at first glance one will say its just a typical projectile. but thats not the case. its not like a mutant or someone with super powers that simply has them. chi amping is being able to direct energies within your body and manipulate them via martial art training. for example, shang chi can amp his hits and make them stronger. would you argue thats a different category? its basically a technique, a fighting technique that allows him to amp his strikes and even durability. or like karate kid. karate kid via his skills and training, achieved levels of striking power durability and speed that can match super humans. so would you say well flash also has super human speed or superman has super human strength so its a different category? for them yes. for him its his skills that pushed him to such level. so for shang chi to use chi amping and make his hits harder, make him more durable or even use projectiles its part of fighting skills and not some outside force.

as far as batman, his typical and majority of abilities are limited to getting beat by the likes of bane, slade, bronze tiger atc atc. those are his limits. he can maybe win some, definitely lose some, but those are his levels. 1 fight vs karate kid doesnt change his entire history and overall abilities.

He's fought 2 separate Karate Kid's. He's also defeated Bane, BT, etc... He may have looked inferior the first rounds, but Batman always adapts in the end. He even teased Val that he wouldn't have beaten him a second time.,

Not the dreaded tease!

Originally posted by Zack M
He's fought 2 separate Karate Kid's. He's also defeated Bane, BT, etc... He may have looked inferior the first rounds, but Batman always adapts in the end. He even teased Val that he wouldn't have beaten him a second time.,

as pointed out he may win some or lose some, but those guys are his limits. i also dont recall batman beating bronze tiger. as far as batman stating that, its just a statement. aside of that the whole event is beyond his average abilities when it comes down to fighting. and even then he lost as i recall. batman is a good top tier fighter, but when it comes to fighting skills and abilities alone, shang chi is 1 level above him IMO. lets also take into account the fact batman is using protective body suit that is suppose to lighten up the impact of the strikes he recieve. also enhance his own striking power to a little degree. shang chi is fighting shirtless WITH SLIPPERS OR SNEAKERS and he still kicks major ass Lol. when batman steps up into a fight he all suited up with tons of gadgets and shit ready up for war. then we got shang chi looking like he is walking to the beach wooping some ass punching out dragons and doombots. this says it all man. Mr shang is on a different level. not by much, but a different level.

Originally posted by Dareangel
....when it comes to fighting skills and abilities alone, shang chi is 1 level above him IMO. lets also take into account the fact batman is using protective body suit that is suppose to lighten up the impact of the strikes he recieve. also enhance his own striking power to a little degree. shang chi is fighting shirtless WITH SLIPPERS OR SNEAKERS and he still kicks major ass Lol. when batman steps up into a fight he all suited up with tons of gadgets and shit ready up for war. then we got shang chi looking like he is walking to the beach wooping some ass punching out dragons and doombots. this says it all man. Mr shang is on a different level. not by much, but a different level.
^^^I've been saying the same thing regarding MA practitioners (and Batman and his suit/gear) for years.
Maybe you'll get through to folks here.
I doubt it though.

Originally posted by Dareangel
as pointed out he may win some or lose some, but those guys are his limits.

lol you mean elite top tier fighters like Bane and Bronze Tiger are not limits for Shang Chi when for most of his history the Cat has stalemated him and Razor Fist has given him problems. Not too long ago Batman beat Bane who was own his most potent Venom ever with mostly just skill. So no Batman "limits" are definitely not less than Shang's. Like I said before you can't even low-ball correctly.

Just curious (i've already made my pick here) how much skill was that mostly skill and how much was gear/gadgets, insofar as taking damage and dealing it out?

Originally posted by Supermutant
lol you mean elite top tier fighters like Bane and Bronze Tiger are not limits for Shang Chi when for most of his history the Cat has stalemated him and Razor Fist has given him problems. Not too long ago Batman beat Bane who was own his most potent Venom ever with mostly just skill. So no Batman "limits" are definitely not less than Shang's. Like I said before you can't even low-ball correctly.

razor fist is getting wooped by him all the time. Cat stalemated him so? most of his fights you see shang chi simply dominates. he is able to destroy doombots, punch out dragons, hell he even beat the hell out of gorgon. if it wasnt for his healing factor gorgon would be screwed. watch his fight vs wolverine and elektra gorgon took their punishment like its nothing. but when shang amped himself, he was wrecking gorgon until he finally healed. thats the shang chi average. batman on average is getting hard pressed vs deathstroke, bronze tiger, bane and people at that level. the reason i brought that up was to show that batman matching karate kid is not his average. now since you are bringitng that up, are you claiming it is actually his avergae?
also as i pointed out already, batman has a suit and overall gear that helps him. this is only about skills. take that into account as well.

Cat was made to be the anti-shang. And it's not like he's a pushover, either. Pushover's don't beat Deaepool or stalemate/beat Iron Fist..

And get destroyed by Taskmaster.

Pure hand to hand . Shang

Thats wusup

Originally posted by abhilegend
And get destroyed by Taskmaster. don't bring that up like it's a low showing. Taskmaster has the h2h skills of some of Marvel's absolute best.

thats wusup

Originally posted by Dareangel
as pointed out he may win some or lose some, but those guys are his limits. i also dont recall batman beating bronze tiger. as far as batman stating that, its just a statement. aside of that the whole event is beyond his average abilities when it comes down to fighting. and even then he lost as i recall. batman is a good top tier fighter, but when it comes to fighting skills and abilities alone, shang chi is 1 level above him IMO. lets also take into account the fact batman is using protective body suit that is suppose to lighten up the impact of the strikes he recieve. also enhance his own striking power to a little degree. shang chi is fighting shirtless WITH SLIPPERS OR SNEAKERS and he still kicks major ass Lol. when batman steps up into a fight he all suited up with tons of gadgets and shit ready up for war. then we got shang chi looking like he is walking to the beach wooping some ass punching out dragons and doombots. this says it all man. Mr shang is on a different level. not by much, but a different level.

Nobody said it didn't take skill to develop Chi attacks or whatnot. We're saying that if he couldn't rely upon that and it's just a dojo style fight, Batman would come out on top. We saw what happened when he fought Cap in a ring without Chi. It was 50/50. Batman has mastered every fighting style on earth, Shang isn't anything special.

Originally posted by Zack M
I'm talking technical skill. Batman has the edge, IMO. He stalemated Karate Kid who is superior to Chi.

The Karate Kid thing seems like a classic case of PIS.

Originally posted by riv6672
No he isnt.
The fact that Shang is so good a MA that he can PERFORM chi manipulation proves that.

I thought Batman willingly chose not to learn stuff like chi manipulation and magic, etc.?

Originally posted by Surtur
The Karate Kid thing seems like a classic case of PIS.



I thought Batman willingly chose not to learn stuff like chi manipulation and magic, etc.?

You can call it that, but it still counts as his feats. He also one-shotted Bane, too.

Originally posted by Zack M
You can call it that, but it still counts as his feats. He also one-shotted Bane, too.

Does Spider-Man beating down Firelord still count as well, then?

Who one shotted Bane, Karate Kid? That just makes Batman stalemating him make even less sense.

Originally posted by Surtur
Does Spider-Man beating down Firelord still count as well, then?

Who one shotted Bane, Karate Kid? That just makes Batman stalemating him make even less sense.

Batman did. Batman has a lot of PIS feats, but they still count.

Oh, and Solomon Grundy, too.

Originally posted by Zack M
Batman did. Batman has a lot of PIS feats, but they still count.

One shotting Bane is a far cry from stalemating a guy who, while sick and dying, beats the shit out of a villain even Supergirl had trouble against.

You can say the feat counts, but it isn't necessarily an accurate representation of Batman's overall abilities.

Since if we're saying he can stalemate Karate Kid he should literally be able to one shot Shang Chi then.

EDIT: Just saw the Grundy thing too. If those feats count how does Batman not beat the shit out of Shang Chi? How does he not do so even if Shang Chi can use chi?

Originally posted by Surtur
One shotting Bane is a far cry from stalemating a guy who, while sick and dying, beats the shit out of a villain even Supergirl had trouble against.

You can say the feat counts, but it isn't necessarily an accurate representation of Batman's overall abilities.

Since if we're saying he can stalemate Karate Kid he should literally be able to one shot Shang Chi then.

EDIT: Just saw the Grundy thing too. If those feats count how does Batman not beat the shit out of Shang Chi? How does he not do so even if Shang Chi can use chi?

I don't recall supergirl having trouble with that villain. However, when Val went in for a kick, supergirl casually blocked it.

And the Val I'm talking about is on Shang's level, not above it.

Originally posted by deathslash
don't bring that up like it's a low showing. Taskmaster has the h2h skills of some of Marvel's absolute best.
And gets his ass handed nearly everytime.

Originally posted by Zack M
Nobody said it didn't take skill to develop Chi attacks or whatnot. We're saying that if he couldn't rely upon that and it's just a dojo style fight, Batman would come out on top. We saw what happened when he fought Cap in a ring without Chi. It was 50/50. Batman has mastered every fighting style on earth, Shang isn't anything special.
The above seems impressive until you realize its mostly just your opinion.
-Its your opinion Batman'd win a dojo fight IF shang couldnt rely on something thats part of his MA mastery.
-Its your opinion Batman's mastered every fighting style on earth when in reality he's been shown to have taken parts of many styles and created a hybrid system that he incorporates along with his suit and gear to make him truly formidable.
-its your opinion Shang is nothing special.

Its my opinion you seek to lowball Shang like this because you dont know how to build one character up and still give the other due credit.

-shrug-
Its your debate style, though.

Shang Chi is a pure MA who's mastered his style to the point of Chi manip.
Batman has not mastered any one style to anywhere near that point.
This would be a good Dojo fight, that Shang would win.
In my opinion.

There's really not much more to say. Was a fun thread.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And gets his ass handed nearly everytime.

Yeah, Tasky is very unimpressive. Hell, even Srank thinks this, too.

Characters like Prometheus and Cassandra would hand him his butt.

Originally posted by riv6672


Shang Chi is a pure MA who's mastered his style to the point of Chi manip.
Batman has not mastered any one style to anywhere near that point.



you just reminded me of something bruce lee said. he said "i fear not the man who practiced 10,000 kicks, i fear the man who practiced 1 kick 10,000 times". i find it very true. its not the number of styles you know. its how well you are doing with the tools you got. in a fight, you dont need 10,000 different types of a punch or a kick its pointless. you need 1 good punch that you know how and when to throw.

Originally posted by Dareangel
you just reminded me of something bruce lee said. he said "i fear not the man who practiced 10,000 kicks, i fear the man who practiced 1 kick 10,000 times". i find it very true. its not the number of styles you know. its how well you are doing with the tools you got. in a fight, you dont need 10,000 different types of a punch or a kick its pointless. you need 1 good punch that you know how and when to throw.

Bruce has learned from the best, though. And that gives him the skills to go toe to toe with pure MA's.

Originally posted by Zack M
Bruce has learned from the best, though. And that gives him the skills to go toe to toe with pure MA's.

bruce is among the best fighters no doubt, but i just feel that shang chi is more skilled based on fights and feats. of course not at the levels that he can school bruce. of course not. but still.

Originally posted by Dareangel
bruce is among the best fighters no doubt, but i just feel that shang chi is more skilled based on fights and feats. of course not at the levels that he can school bruce. of course not. but still.

In terms of chi based attacks, I agree. However, in terms of hth skills, dojo fighting, they are about equal, with Bruce being the more cunning, IMO. Bruce has taken on and stalemated fighters who are peers (Or exceed) to Shang, so I don't see them being far off from each other.

Honestly Nightwing would be too much for Shang let alone Batman.

Originally posted by riv6672
Shang Chi is a pure MA who's mastered his style to the point of Chi manip.
Batman has not mastered any one style to anywhere near that point.



This logic is broke as shit.

Originally posted by RadZoa
Honestly Nightwing would be too much for Shang let alone Batman.

Honestly, NO.

Originally posted by Dareangel
you just reminded me of something bruce lee said. he said "i fear not the man who practiced 10,000 kicks, i fear the man who practiced 1 kick 10,000 times". i find it very true. its not the number of styles you know. its how well you are doing with the tools you got. in a fight, you dont need 10,000 different types of a punch or a kick its pointless. you need 1 good punch that you know how and when to throw.

Didn't you just describe... the Batkick???

"i fear not the man who practiced 10,000 kicks, i fear the man who practiced the batkick 10,000 times"

Batman HAS mastered every style on DC Earth, though.

who in dc (pre or post dcnu/rebirth) has shown the type of chi control that some of the marvel guys has (ie blasting chi, creating chi constructs, etc....)? is there anyone?

Originally posted by Zack M
I don't recall supergirl having trouble with that villain. However, when Val went in for a kick, supergirl casually blocked it.

He defeated it and she didn't, correct? The kick she blocked, was that also from a sick and dying Val?



But he is far above Shangs level. Unless you're treating Val from the Batman encounter as a completely separate character. But then if you are..we'd need feats from that specific story to tell us why beating that version of Val is impressive.

Otherwise if we take the Batman feat and say it counts..then he should literally one shot Shang Chi. That would be true even if you let Shang manipulate chi, and hell it'd be true if you let him manipulate chi and doubled his power levels.

Originally posted by Surtur
He defeated it and she didn't, correct? The kick she blocked, was that also from a sick and dying Val?



But he is far above Shangs level. Unless you're treating Val from the Batman encounter as a completely separate character. But then if you are..we'd need feats from that specific story to tell us why beating that version of Val is impressive.

Otherwise if we take the Batman feat and say it counts..then he should literally one shot Shang Chi. That would be true even if you let Shang manipulate chi, and hell it'd be true if you let him manipulate chi and doubled his power levels.

I don't remember her losing, but I could be wrong. Got scans?

And 3Boot Val isn't that far off from Shang. Unless you have specific feats

He's right, Equuis leveled her, while Val chopped off his arm.

Originally posted by cdtm
He's right, Equuis leveled her, while Val chopped off his arm.

He didn't ko her, but he did slice her up. Either way, we're talking two different Vals here.

Originally posted by riv6672

-Its your opinion Batman's mastered every fighting style on earth when in reality he's been shown to have taken parts of many styles and created a hybrid system that he incorporates along with his suit and gear to make him truly formidable.
This part isn't opinion. It's been written as part of his character that he is a master of all. It's written in comics and handbooks many times over.

Has spent years perfecting every known fighting discipline. (The Ultimate Guide to the Justice League of America)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544037

Is said to be quite possibly the greatest martial artist alive and a master of every fighting style on earth (DC Comics Encyclopedia vol 2)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544041

Is a master of all fighting arts (Detective Comics #411)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544045

Trained to perfection in every violent art.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084797

Perfected every fighting Discipline.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084801

Mastered virtually all forms of combat.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084803

Originally posted by Juntai
This part isn't opinion. It's been written as part of his character that he is a master of all. It's written in comics and handbooks many times over.

Has spent years perfecting every known fighting discipline. (The Ultimate Guide to the Justice League of America)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544037

Is said to be quite possibly the greatest martial artist alive and a master of every fighting style on earth (DC Comics Encyclopedia vol 2)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544041

Is a master of all fighting arts (Detective Comics #411)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544045

Trained to perfection in every violent art.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084797

Perfected every fighting Discipline.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084801

Mastered virtually all forms of combat.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084803



Nice seeing you posting again.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman HAS mastered every style on DC Earth, though.

Indeed.

But Val mastered alien forms. Another reason why you can't really compare them, or Val to Shang for that matter.

Shang "should" win on stats, if nothing else. If you think he can't decapitate a stone statue who's head is bigger then his body or do his best Wonder Woman impersonation by deflecting bullets off his wrist band without amping, I'm not sure what there is to debate. We're talking about a character that simply hasn't been written about.. (Same goes for Elektra with her sai deflections.

And what about Cassandra Cain? She sure doesn't chi channel. So does she get a pass, while chi channelers are assumed to do EVERYTHING on amp?)

Originally posted by cdtm
Indeed.

But Val mastered alien forms. Another reason why you can't really compare them, or Val to Shang for that matter.

Shang "should" win on stats, if nothing else. If you think he can't decapitate a stone statue who's head is bigger then his body or do his best Wonder Woman impersonation by deflecting bullets off his wrist band, I'm not sure what there is to debate. We're talking about a character that simply hasn't been written about.. Different types of feats, Shang has some pretty impressive movement and knocking things over and whatnot skills.

Batman has went toe to toe with two versions of Karate Kid, clobbered Solomon Grundy. Single handedly wrecked the Teen Titans in a few panels, while wounded he took down 4 Talons at the same time, kung fued down and choked Lobo into submission, beat Aquaman in a hand to hand fight etc.

He doesn't have outward showings of chi, but his performances are better.

He's the ****ing Batman.

Originally posted by Juntai
Different types of feats, Shang has some pretty impressive movement and knocking things over and whatnot skills.

Batman has went toe to toe with two versions of Karate Kid, clobbered Solomon Grundy. Single handedly wrecked the Teen Titans in a few panels, while wounded he took down 4 Talons at the same time, kung fued down and choked Lobo into submission, beat Aquaman in a hand to hand fight etc.

He doesn't have outward showings of chi, but his performances are better.

He's the ****ing Batman.

Yes, he is.

I was going to bump a thread to see what you, being a street expert, think of it, but can't find the thing. Probably been locked.

Anyways, it's Cap vs Logan h2h, no shield or armor, no claws, no adamantium, but shorty keeps his hf.

Most said Logan because of his hf.

Originally posted by Juntai
This part isn't opinion. It's been written as part of his character that he is a master of all. It's written in comics and handbooks many times over.

Has spent years perfecting every known fighting discipline. (The Ultimate Guide to the Justice League of America)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544037

Is said to be quite possibly the greatest martial artist alive and a master of every fighting style on earth (DC Comics Encyclopedia vol 2)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544041

Is a master of all fighting arts (Detective Comics #411)
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-2544045

Trained to perfection in every violent art.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084797

Perfected every fighting Discipline.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084801

Mastered virtually all forms of combat.
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3084803

Good job. Seriously, Batman has travelled throughout the world, learning from the best MA's on the planet. He's a pure MA. Not the best, but certainly in Shang's league.

Originally posted by Dareangel
Honestly, NO. Yeah it's kinda true, Bruce is too much for Wang Chi. His standard hits are harder than Shang's chi amped hits and he has the feats to back it up.