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Rey?

Luke?


Kylo?


What do you think?

MaRey Sue, obviously. And it won't be a close fight.

I'm going with Luke. We have been told for a long time about how powerful Luke could become and I think we will see that.

With the unfortunate passing of Carrie I think Luke will survive the trilogy and get a good ending.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
MaRey Sue, obviously. And it won't be a close fight.

I think Luke will, either him or the combined efforts of Rey and Kylo.

Details of the Snoke fight have already been confirmed:

http://i.imgur.com/29mZYnc.png

Kylo Ren if they are trying to "re-boot" the original trilogy.

Kylo Ren imo. I think he'll kill him tbh.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Details of the Snoke fight have already been confirmed:

http://i.imgur.com/29mZYnc.png

Snoke is the most powerful user of what? Meth?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Snoke is the most powerful user of what? Meth?

Rofl.


Nah, Kylo won't be it. It's gonna be either Luke or Rey, but probably Rey.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
MaRey Sue, obviously. And it won't be a close fight.

What do we have to say about this now?

People put way too much stock in their own fanfiction or rumors on the internet.

Snoke got Halo 4'd.

Originally posted by playa1258
I'm going with Luke. We have been told for a long time about how powerful Luke could become and I think we will see that.

With the unfortunate passing of Carrie I think Luke will survive the trilogy and get a good ending. Originally posted by playa1258
I'm going with Luke. We have been told for a long time about how powerful Luke could become and I think we will see that.

With the unfortunate passing of Carrie I think Luke will survive the trilogy and get a good ending. Snoke was far too powerful to be confronted directly and you were both dead wrong,

Wrinkly frail Snoke, they called him Sheevites' bane,

writers made him strong but forgot to give him brain.

Originally posted by Trocity
Wrinkly frail Snoke, they called him Sheevites' bane,

writers made him strong but forgot to give him brain.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-V7AmzVo9Z2w/Wr-I2UmEPFI/AAAAAAAAAW4/mS4lGAcplBQJZuKPpq0ezz-Xbw15FZpvgCJoC/w424-h318-n/001

whatever quan, snoke got bisected rather easily, your fake bravado wont change the fact that snoke was a weak joke

Originally posted by relentless1
whatever quan, snoke got bisected rather easily, your fake bravado wont change the fact that snoke was a weak joke He was killed because he let his guard down. The director confirmed it. He was too powerful to assault directly thus backing all my claims. He decimated Rey despite d. Thor claiming otherwise. Playa was dead wrong too. Luke

Snoke was the most powerful as I claimed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke was far too powerful to be confronted directly and you were both dead wrong,


He was too cowardly to confront Kylo on his own.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He was too cowardly to confront Kylo on his own.

https://i.redd.it/j2sks0zslh701.gif

Directly putting him down. No one added in humiliating Kylo Ren.

^ Yeah where Kylo is starting off on his knees and without his Saber ignited.

He knew a Skywalker could take him. He needed those guards for his protection.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Yeah where Kylo is starting off on his knees and without his Saber ignited.

He knew a Skywalker could take him. He needed those guards for his protection. No, he knew he was using him. Manipulating him to achieve his goals just like with hux. Nowhere is that alluded to. You can pretend he is not a lot more powerful than Rey RENs equal but we both know better.

Kylo was man enough to attack Snoke on his own.

Snoke was too chicken to challenge Kylo on his own. And we all know why.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Kylo was man enough to attack Snoke on his own.

Snoke was too chicken to challenge Kylo on his own. And we all know why. Kylo stood up and sat right the **** down. Snoke under his own power put him on his ass. Kylo only later challenged him when his guard was down. You claimed Rey would beat him. Man were you wrong.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Kylo was man enough to attack Snoke on his own.

Snoke was too chicken to challenge Kylo on his own. And we all know why.
You're making a fool of yourself.

Snoke dominated both Kylo and Rey literally with a flick of his wrist.

Originally posted by Unbowed
You're making a fool of yourself.

Snoke dominated both Kylo and Rey literally with a flick of his wrist.

I wonder when the first trailer for episode 9 will drop? Early next year?

"Star Wars, Episode 9! snoke not included."

Probably summer / fall of 2019.

You're probably right actually. I was thinking TLJ had one in like April or May, but that was just a teaser I think.

doesnt matter quan, harp on and on about how powerful Snoke is but the fact remains he got killed and rather easily too I might add... youre blustering here is useless in the face of cold hard fact

What's so great about Snoke. Character wise he is literally just Emperor Palpatine except uglier. If Palpatine was brought back to life and took Snokes place since the beginning nothing would be different.

Originally posted by The Merchant
If Palpatine was brought back to life and took Snokes place since the beginning nothing would be different.


Except Palpatine would not have gotten sliced by Kylo.

True, in the canon book "BBeware of the dark side" it was said if it weren't for Palpatine essentially going into a mindless bloodlust when Vader picked him up and threw him into the reactor, he would have been able to save himself from falling into the reactor rather than just blast force lightning mindlessly.

Yes the rule of two played out with the stronger apprentice killing the weaker master.

Only very strange people are hyping Snoke after TLJ.

Originally posted by relentless1
doesnt matter quan, harp on and on about how powerful Snoke is but the fact remains he got killed and rather easily too I might add... youre blustering here is useless in the face of cold hard fact He was cheapshotted. He was too powerful to be attacked directly. Dying pitifully is Vader hurling a screaming Sidious to his death imo.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes the rule of two played out with the stronger apprentice killing the weaker master. They are not Sith.

Originally posted by The Merchant
What's so great about Snoke. Character wise he is literally just Emperor Palpatine except uglier. If Palpatine was brought back to life and took Snokes place since the beginning nothing would be different. Snoke is a lot different than Sidious. Voice, intentions, look, presence, and the fact he mocked his underlings in the films. Sidious catered to Vader in the films even let him talk Sidious into trying to convert Luke.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They are not Sith.



I already said this

Originally posted by quanchi112
They are not Sith.




Never said they were.

But the Rule of Two took its natural course regardless.

It is kinda different, with Sidious it's at least plausible given the way it's setup. With Snoke....it's kinda lazy, it doesn't help that he says something along the lines of "Kylo cannot betray me! I know his every thought!" Then he doesn't see this and dies. I mean, does Snoke lack peripheral vision too?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Never said they were.

But the Rule of Two took its natural course regardless. That is a rule of the Sith. Undeniable.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
I already said this I tend to skim over your posts.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
It is kinda different, with Sidious it's at least plausible given the way it's setup. With Snoke....it's kinda lazy, it doesn't help that he says something along the lines of "Kylo cannot betray me! I know his every thought!" Then he doesn't see this and dies. I mean, does Snoke lack peripheral vision too?


Because he wasnt that powerful in comparison to Kylo.

Thats why Kylo was able to pull it off. And why he would never face Kylo without his guards.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because he wasnt that powerful in comparison to Kylo.

Thats why Kylo was able to pull it off. And why he would never face Kylo without his guards.

So then Kylo is top dog and not Snoke, so we got that established then. Which means if Kylo is afraid of not being able to be Vader....hm? Still though a little peripheral vision doesn't hurt anyone.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
It is kinda different, with Sidious it's at least plausible given the way it's setup. With Snoke....it's kinda lazy, it doesn't help that he says something along the lines of "Kylo cannot betray me! I know his every thought!" Then he doesn't see this and dies. I mean, does Snoke lack peripheral vision too?

In the TLJ novelization, while Snoke was mind-probing Rey, she explicitly noted that Snoke's psionic abilities/TP were vastly more powerful than Kylo's... Then a few minutes later, Snoke is duped by Kylo's inferior psionic abilities? Wtf.

At least when Palpatine was betrayed by Vader, all of his focus was diverted to torturing/killing Luke and not centered around Vader at all. Snoke was literally reading Kylo's f*cking mind, and STILL couldn't see through the fog of his betrayal. Stupid AF.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
So then Kylo is top dog and not Snoke, so we got that established then. Which means if Kylo is afraid of not being able to be Vader....hm? Still though a little peripheral vision doesn't hurt anyone.


Not necessarily saying Kylo > Snoke. Just that the difference clearly wasnt large enough to keep him as his apprentice. The threat level was just too high, and we know with darksiders they will take advantage of that ASAP.

Would be like Palpatine having Windu as an Apprentice. Just wouldnt work.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not necessarily saying Kylo > Snoke. Just that the difference clearly wasnt large enough to keep him as his apprentice. The threat level was just too high, and we know with darksiders they will take advantage of that ASAP.

Would be like Palpatine having Windu as an Apprentice. Just wouldnt work.

Well according to what Galan said, the gap was big enough.

I'm not sure how you can really call Snoke "distracted", though..? In the film he is clearly bringing all of his focus to Kylo's thoughts/feelings through the force. The novelization corroborates this:


So the only logical way for Kylo to completely dupe Snoke like that would be if his psionic abilities with the force were superior to Snoke's... But that very clearly was not the case. Imo, this is just PIS of the highest order, and really cannot be explained with any sort of logic. /shrug

This quote is from the director himself. The situation allowed for the deception to take place since his true enemy was technically near both light sabers so it would be interpreted as true. Snoke was distracted and Kylo attacked quickly in that moment.

So he was distracted by focusing on, and reading, Kylo's mind through the force? Makes no sense, quan.

Originally posted by Galan007
So he was distracted by focusing on, and reading, Kylo's mind through the force? Makes no sense, quan. This is the director explaining the scene and what is occurring. He was also talking to Rey and letting his guard down feeling himself in the moment. We also do not know what will take place in episode 9.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This quote is from the director himself.

He clearly stated its not even his place to say now that its part of the wider canon.

He says we get to interpret it based on the larger canon.

He made that clear before saying anything.


So where Galan is giving facts from the canon (the correct thing to do as per Rian Johnson), you are taking one guys opinion, who did not even fee it was his place to give said opinion.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He clearly stated its not even his place to say now that its part of the wider canon.

He says we get to interpret it based on the larger canon.

He made that clear before saying anything.


So where Galan is giving facts from the canon (the correct thing to do as per Rian Johnson), you are taking one guys opinion, who did not even fee it was his place to give said opinion. You are free to believe Snoke is 3 feet tall for all I care. Rian explained the thought process of the scene which is corroborated by what I interpreted. Kylo waits till an opportunity presents itself and while Snoke lets his guard down aka distracted he strikes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is the director explaining the scene and what is occurring. He was also talking to Rey and letting his guard down feeling himself in the moment. We also do not know what will take place in episode 9. The director also showed us what Snoke was doing on screen. He was sensing Kylo's thoughts(or what he believed were Kylo's thoughts) through the force the entire time. The canon novel corroborates this fact.

So again, the only logical way for Kylo to dupe Snoke's TP like that, is if Kylo's psi abilities were superior -- which they weren't. This is one of the reasons why the scene makes no logical sense.

If Snoke was "distracted", he was distracted by Kylo's own thoughts... Which is equally as stupid for the same reasons.

Originally posted by Galan007
The director also showed us what Snoke was doing on screen. He was sensing Kylo's thoughts(or what he believed were Kylo's thoughts) through the force the entire time. The canon novel corroborates this fact.

So again, the only logical way for Kylo to dupe Snoke's TP like that, is if Kylo's psi abilities were superior -- which they weren't. This is one of the reasons why the scene makes no logical sense.

If Snoke was "distracted", he was distracted by Kylo's own thoughts... Which is equally as stupid for the same reasons. His true enemy was true since there was a light saber next to both himself and Rey. So what he thought was true but Snoke assumes it meant Rey and not himself while dropping his guard. He was bragging about Reys death and rubbing it in her face.

As mentioned, Kylo hiding who his real "true enemy" was, hiding which lightsaber was really turning, hiding who he was really going to strike down, etc. implies that he was capable of hiding his actual thoughts from Snoke... Which subsequently implies that his psi abilities were superior.

But as explicitly mentioned in the canon novel: Snoke-level psi was vastly beyond Kylo-level psi. IOW, Kylo shouldn't have logically been able to hide shit from Snoke.

The scene is nonsensical, quan.

Originally posted by Galan007
As mentioned, Kylo hiding who his real "true enemy" was, hiding which lightsaber was really turning, hiding who he was really going to strike down, etc. implies that he was capable of hiding his actual thoughts from Snoke... Which subsequently implies that his psi abilities were superior.

But as explicitly mentioned in the canon novel: Snoke-level psi was vastly beyond Kylo-level psi. IOW, Kylo shouldn't have logically been able to hide shit from Snoke.

The scene is nonsensical, quan. He turns both lightsabers at the same time making it line up. He was distracted since he was not paying attention to the room just Kylos mind. No, it is not since both lightsabers turning and being so close could fool you if you were not paying attention to the room and just his mind.

That's what I'm saying, though: it *shouldn't* have fooled Snoke.

Snoke possesses vastly superior TP, and was actively probing Kylo's mind when this happened. Kylo randomly being able to hide the fact that he was about to murder him makes no sense when you consider the huge disparity between their psi abilities.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's what I'm saying, though: it *shouldn't* have fooled Snoke.

Snoke possesses vastly superior TP, and was actively probing Kylo's mind when this happened. Kylo randomly being able to hide the fact that he was about to murder him makes no sense when you consider the huge disparity between their psi abilities. If he did not close his eyes he would have been aware of the lightsaber to his side moving but he was arrogant. He just learned the location of Luke so he felt hope was about to be destroyed as soon as he flew to Lukes island. He was feeling himself. We see this all the time in fiction, Maul lording over Kenobi in TPM, Sidious having yoda at his mercy and standing around for yoda to forcepush him backwards while standing around feeling himself in the moment.

In your mind it does not but in Rians it does.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's what I'm saying, though: it *shouldn't* have fooled Snoke.

Snoke possesses vastly superior TP, and was actively probing Kylo's mind when this happened. Kylo randomly being able to hide the fact that he was about to murder him makes no sense when you consider the huge disparity between their psi abilities.

I mean, quite a few things don't make sense in the movie sooo...par the course.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was feeling himself. This was never shown, stated, or implied anywhere. He was sensing Kylo.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I mean, quite a few things don't make sense in the movie sooo...par the course.

It is yet another horribly inconsistent plot-point from that film.

Originally posted by Galan007
This was never shown, stated, or implied anywhere. He was sensing Kylo. Saying he cannot be betrayed, defeated, etc. was feeling himself. He was arrogant just as Sidious was against yoda and Maul was against Kenobi. Happens quite often in Star Wars and all of fiction.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Saying he cannot be betrayed, defeated, etc. was feeling himself. He was arrogant just as Sidious was against yoda and Maul was against Kenobi. Happens quite often in Star Wars and all of fiction.

He also said

"I see his mind, I see every intent."

If he can see everything that Kylo intends to do, this would include the lightsaber next to him being turned and what Kylo was wanting to do.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
He also said

"I see his mind, I see every intent."

If he can see everything that Kylo intends to do, this would include the lightsaber next to him being turned and what Kylo was wanting to do. He was arrogant in the scene I agree. If he paid attention to the room and watched the saber to his side move he would have been ready to fend him off. In that scene he reveled in his arrogance. He saw his mind not the room. Both sabers move at once so this was the perfect opportunity to pull this off. You can hate that scene all you want but he is arrogant and not paying attention to the room aka distracted.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Saying he cannot be betrayed, defeated, etc. was feeling himself. . You're moving goalposts.

I'm obviously talking about when Snoke said: "I see his mind. I see his every intent. Yeeesss! I see him turning the lightsaber to strike true. And now, foolish child, he ignites it and KILLS his true enemy!"


He was probing Kylo's mind there...Reading his thoughts...Sensing his emotions. Etc. Point being: a force-user of Snoke's caliber shouldn't have needed to physically see the lightsaber rotating to know it was happening.

But despite actively reading his mind, Snoke was still unable to sense the fact that Kylo was going to murder him... And it's not like Kylo was some master at concealing his emotions:
https://i.imgur.com/ecHxmTC.gif

https://i.imgur.com/WUB2kId.gif

So yeah...


I mean, I could probably use that showing as a means to lowball Snoke if I were so inclined. However, I am firmly of the opinion that his psi abilities >>>> Kylo's(because that's what canon explicitly states.) So I just chalk it up to PIS-related inconsistency.

Ok, ok where to begin. Yes, Kylo has had many moments of impulse control issues but this was not one of them. We see he composes himself before killing Solo as well. Later in the film he loses it and becomes completely incensed. The same thing happens here he is composed, very driven and emotionless in this scene. Later in the film he completely reverts back to incensed I will kill Luke Skywalker to death.


His emotions were true but sensing who his true enemy was making Snoke unaware that was him. Kylo probably kept who was his true enemy hidden from his own thoughts to purposely mislead him. So as he shuts his eyes he assumes Rey as the saber moves in her direction as well as towards him but since they are closed he is distracted to the room around him.


Snoke is greater than Kylo clearly in his abilities/powers but that does not mean a lesser foe cannot deceive him in the right situation. Snoke was too arrogant in the scene like past Star Wars villains. If he opened his eyes he would have realized she is not the true enemy it was him. That is why the words true enemy are a deception to make him believe it was Rey. He could still see his mind and his intent but was not alert to what was around him due to his arrogance and the use of his other senses.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His emotions were true but sensing who his true enemy was making Snoke unaware that was him. Kylo probably kept who was his true enemy hidden from his own thoughts to purposely mislead him. That isn't the case, though.

As Snoke was actively reading his mind, Kylo was actively positioning the lightsaber to kill him. This tells us that Kylo had clear murderous intent in mind *while* Snoke was probing his thoughts.

I agree that Snoke was arrogant, but he was still reading Kylo's mind literally up until the moment he was killed... Yet was somehow completely unable to sense his impending doom, despite having FAR more powerful TP than his apprentice. If we're not doing the most logical thing we can do in this situation, and just writing that showing off as inconsistent PIS, then it ends up making Snoke look quite a bit worse, imo. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
That isn't the case, though.

As Snoke was actively reading his mind, Kylo was actively positioning the lightsaber to kill him. This tells us that Kylo had clear murderous intent in mind *while* Snoke was probing his thoughts.

I agree that Snoke was arrogant, but he was still reading Kylo's mind literally up until the moment he was killed... Yet was somehow completely unable to sense his impending doom, despite having FAR more powerful TP than his apprentice. If we're not doing the most logical thing we can do in this situation, and just writing that showing off as inconsistent PIS, then it ends up making Snoke look quite a bit worse, imo. /shrug He did have murderius intent but believed his true enemy was Rey. In his arrogance he dropped his guard closed his eyes and reveled in his glory. I never use pis ever. Think what you want my views match rian Johnsons because thats how I interpreted the scene.

Like I said, the notion that Snoke can be legitimately duped like that, despite actively reading Kylo's mind as he was carrying out the plan to murder him, doesn't make Snoke look good. At all.

But you're welcome to believe that the scene can be contorted into making sense. Doesn't matter to me either way.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are free to believe Snoke is 3 feet tall for all I care. Rian explained the thought process of the scene which is corroborated by what I interpreted. Kylo waits till an opportunity presents itself and while Snoke lets his guard down aka distracted he strikes.


Rian himself states his opinion doesnt count.

This is what you do not get. The canon made it clear Kylo hid his true intentions from Snoke. So his TP was powerful enough to fool Snoke.


Originally posted by Galan007

I mean, I could probably use that showing as a means to lowball Snoke if I were so inclined. However, I am firmly of the opinion that his psi abilities >>>> Kylo's(because that's what canon explicitly states.)


Does a canon source explicitly state that somewhere, or is that only what Rey thought?

Originally posted by Galan007
Like I said, the notion that Snoke can be legitimately duped like that, despite actively reading Kylo's mind as he was carrying out the plan to murder him, doesn't make Snoke look good. At all.

But you're welcome to believe that the scene can be contorted into making sense. Doesn't matter to me either way. Anyone can be duped when they let their guard down as the Circumstances allowed it.

Johnson is the guy who directed it.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Rian himself states his opinion doesnt count.

This is what you do not get. The canon made it clear Kylo hid his true intentions from Snoke. So his TP was powerful enough to fool Snoke.





Does a canon source explicitly state that somewhere, or is that only what Rey thought? He is being polite but the director saying how he set the scene matters. Snoke is clearly more powerful than Ren. Circumstances allowed for it. He was arrogant but power wise he is on another level despite your prediction of Rey beating him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sidious catered to Vader in the films even let him talk Sidious into trying to convert Luke.

quan is so blinded by his hatred he doesn't even understand what Palpatine was doing in the films, lmao.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Does a canon source explicitly state that somewhere, or is that only what Rey thought? I mean, Rey has felt the TP of both Kylo and Snoke, and noted that Snoke's was FAR more powerful.

I see no reason to believe the narrative was intended to mislead us..?

Originally posted by Trocity
quan is so blinded by his hatred he doesn't even understand what Palpatine was doing in the films, lmao. Sure he manipulated him initially but letting your subordinate change your mind which resulted in your death. It is like a test you go with your first instinct.

I've no clue why some of you care about Snoke this much. Not only is he a shitty Palpatine knock-off; he is also nearly irrelevant to the plot of the films.

Originally posted by ares834
I've no clue why some of you care about Snoke this much. Not only is he a shitty Palpatine knock-off; he is also nearly irrelevant to the plot of the films. Do not ever talk in this manner about the greatest Star Wars character to ever live again.

Originally posted by ares834
I've no clue why some of you care about Snoke this much. Not only is he a shitty Palpatine knock-off; he is also nearly irrelevant to the plot of the films.

People look at the fact that Snoke is the evil Supreme Leader with strong force powers and shout "Palpatine knock-off" without giving it a second thought.

He serves the plot differently, he's not as intelligent, and though his fall due to his hubris is intentionally similar to Palpatine's, he's a very different kind of villain, mostly because this is a very different kind of story.

Except he is. He is yet another decrepit sorcerer who does little more than sit on a throne and spout dark side platitudes. Hell, his dialogue in the Throne room scene was pretty much straight up cribbed from RotJ.

Originally posted by Galan007
I mean, Rey has felt the TP of both Kylo and Snoke, and noted that Snoke's was FAR more powerful.

I see no reason to believe the narrative was intended to mislead us..?


I mean we have to remember its from her point of view and she is still essentially a noob. Anakins line of AOTC Kenobi being as powerful as AOTC Windu comes to mind.

Clearly we know she was able to resist mind probing from Kylo but not from Snoke. So perhaps Kylo needed more mastery of mind probing but had better defences.

But I would not expect a noob like Rey to get the difference between different levels of mastery and raw power.


Originally posted by ares834
I've no clue why some of you care about Snoke this much. Not only is he a shitty Palpatine knock-off; he is also nearly irrelevant to the plot of the films.


Lol true

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I mean we have to remember its from her point of view and she is still essentially a noob. Anakins line of AOTC Kenobi being as powerful as AOTC Windu comes to mind.

Clearly we know she was able to resist mind probing from Kylo but not from Snoke. So perhaps Kylo needed more mastery of mind probing but had better defences.

But I would not expect a noob like Rey to get the difference between different levels of mastery and raw power. Rey *could* sense the difference between their TP, though. She literally described the vast difference in power she sensed from each of them in the novelization.

Moreover, Rey could not only resist Kylo's TP, she could actually reverse it and begin probing his mind instead(and this was before she had any understanding about the force whatsoever.) Conversely, Snoke easily ripped every shred of knowledge he wanted from Rey's mind, and she was utterly powerless to resist.

So yeah, I'd say the novelization's description is perfectly accurate. I'm certainly no fan of Snoke, but I'll still give credit where credit is due.

Originally posted by ares834
Except he is. He is yet another decrepit sorcerer who does little more than sit on a throne and spout dark side platitudes. Hell, his dialogue in the Throne room scene was pretty much straight up cribbed from RotJ. Except he is not. He is not Sith, looks different, has a different mindset, degrades his underlings far more cruelly than Sidious ever did in the films. His voice is by far and away the greatest Star Wars voice ever.

Originally posted by Galan007


Moreover, Rey could not only resist Kylo's TP, she could actually reverse it and begin probing his mind instead(and this was before she had any understanding about the force whatsoever.)


He may have been caught off guard with that tough.

I mean theres 2 possibilities. Either the difference in power between Kylo and Snoke is not as much as Rey thinks. Or Kylo killing Snoke is a massive inconsistency.

However its clearly not an inconsistency that can simply be overlooked given what a big event that was.

D. Thor is so lost by his Snoke hatred he makes such horrendous leaps of faith when the obvious is right in front of him. Snoke is vastly more powerful than Rey and Kylo. The movie makes that pretty clear.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He may have been caught off guard with that tough.

Kylo tried, and legitimately failed, to read Rey's mind. She then infiltrated his mind instead. Snoke, on the other hand, easily peered inside Rey's mind and ripped all the information out of it that he wanted -- and she couldn't do a damn thing to resist him. This is when she noted how much more powerful Snoke's TP was than Kylo's.

Him being dead disagrees

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Him being dead disagrees Due to him being distracted. I quoted the director, kiddo.

Canon > Director

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Canon > Director Director wrote and directed the canon film.

Again...feats????

He said himself its not his place to say.

What hes shown onscreen and whats written in the novel is whats important.

Besides by distracted Rian may have just meant distracted reading Kylos mind hence not seeing with his own eyes the Sabers turn right next to him. Ergo his mind reading of Kylo still failed him.

Yeah, Snoke's death was retarded and embarrassing. Sidious' death was not great either, but there are definitely circumstances surrounding it that make it more "epic" and you can forgive Sheev more for it. Snoke narrates his own death without even realizing he's being killed, that was about as humiliating as it gets.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Again...feats???? Domination of Rey.

Windu >>>>> Kylo. So mute point.

I agree that snoke is nowhere as powerful as Sidious, but if he really were that weak Luke could have beaten him anytime, assuming that Luke got much more powerful after RotJ

^ Snoke was pretty cowardly though hiding behind his armies. He outright said he was gonna blow Skywalker up from the Sky after finding his location.

He would not even face Kylo without his guards.

Plus Luke gave up on the Jedi way and blah blah nonsense character plot.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Windu >>>>> Kylo. So mute point. In terms of skill I do not believe power. Luke was fearful of these two. Force made them heavyweights. It is moot point not mute. Laughs.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Snoke was pretty cowardly though hiding behind his armies. He outright said he was gonna blow Skywalker up from the Sky after finding his location.

He would not even face Kylo without his guards.

Plus Luke gave up on the Jedi way and blah blah nonsense character plot. What overlord does not keep himself protected? Sidious did so but you will criticize. Yes, why would he go challenge him. Sidious enacts order 66 but I guess who cares use the double standards.


His guards are always near him. He did not use them when he humiliated Kylo. Snoke is a lot more powerful than Kylo.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
I agree that snoke is nowhere as powerful as Sidious, but if he really were that weak Luke could have beaten him anytime, assuming that Luke got much more powerful after RotJ After Kylo's betrayal, Luke cut himself off from the force and the rest of the galaxy. He was broken.

So even if we assume Luke was more powerful than Snoke(and I like to think he was, given how hellbent Snoke was on preventing his return), Luke would have probably never tried to kill Snoke directly... He simply had no f*cks left to give by that point. All he wanted to do is die alone in exile.

Originally posted by quanchi112
In terms of skill I do not believe power. Luke was fearful of these two. Force made them heavyweights. It is moot point not mute. Laughs.

So now kylo is near windu in power?

Originally posted by quanchi112
What overlord does not keep himself protected? Sidious did so but you will criticize. Yes, why would he go challenge him. Sidious enacts order 66 but I guess who cares use the double standards.


His guards are always near him. He did not use them when he humiliated Kylo. Snoke is a lot more powerful than Kylo.

Sidious did face many Jedi on his own as did Vader. In the EU sidious was killing three or five Jedi at once in seconds

Originally posted by quanchi112
In terms of skill I do not believe power. Luke was fearful of these two. Force made them heavyweights. It is moot point not mute. Laughs.


Your double standards are hilarious.


Remember when Windu was > Sidious due to skill.

And now apparently a Force Noob like Rey > Windu due to raw power.


Of course a masterful Knight level Anakin is no match for Windu because... reasons.

Reasons....

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
So now kylo is near windu in power? More power less skill.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Sidious did face many Jedi on his own as did Vader. In the EU sidious was killing three or five Jedi at once in seconds Canon only.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Your double standards are hilarious.


Remember when Windu was > Sidious due to skill.

And now apparently a Force Noob like Rey > Windu due to raw power.


Of course a masterful Knight level Anakin is no match for Windu because... reasons. Windu beat him due to skill. Sidious is more powerful. Rey is more powerful but I favor Windu in a duel.

Windu is on a higher level. Ask George Lucas it was painfully clear.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Windu beat him due to skill. Sidious is more powerful. Rey is more powerful but I favor Windu in a duel.

Windu is on a higher level. Ask George Lucas it was painfully clear.


Nice avoidance of your double standards.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nice avoidance of your double standards. I never said power in and of itself is the end all be all but I believe Snokes showings showed such an overwhelming power advantage against two equally powered force badasses even the great Luke Skywalker used trepidation.

You are wrong:


Originally posted by Galan007
"Snoke's force abilities are strong, but his body is broken, his stride staggered, and his muscles weak. He relies instead on the combat prowess of his crimson protectors.":
https://postimg.cc/c6mTWvs5

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You are wrong:





That proves my point he wins due to force abilities. We see him humiliate both Ren and Rey on screen. Fun film facts.

Lmao I told you from day 1 he NEEDS those Guards for protection. You denied what was clearly shown in the films.

Who knows if he would take Kylo without them.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lmao I told you from day 1 he NEEDS those Guards for protection. You denied what was clearly shown in the films.

Who knows if he would take Kylo without them. In the films he humiliated both under his own power and casually. Snoke>>>Ren or Rey.

Nah he clearly used his position and his guards to confront Kylo.

Canon confirms it. I told you from day 1. But you were too arrogant to admit it. You still are Im guessing despite Canon confirming it.

Well Ken never even had the chance to fight back due to the guards. The guards which are canonically there for Snokes protection because he literally can not fight

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah he clearly used his position and his guards to confront Kylo.

Canon confirms it. I told you from day 1. But you were too arrogant to admit it. You still are Im guessing despite Canon confirming it. No, he used his powers right after Kylo became aggressive. Kylo made the move and was humiliated.


You claimed Rey would beat her easily. You claimed Luke was more powerful. You were all over the map and still refuse to be objective about Snokes massive power advantage.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well Ken never even had the chance to fight back due to the guards. The guards which are canonically there for Snokes protection because he literally can not fight He had the chance to fight back he chose to wait because he is nowhere near as powerful as Snoke. He was closer to Snoke than to the guards and the guards did not show long range capabilities.

Snores dead bro, Kyoto killed him...get the **** over it.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Snores dead bro, Kyoto killed him...get the **** over it. Snoke is more powerful than Kylo and can only attack when his guard is down. Context.

He is still dead, wasn't strong enough to see it coming.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
He is still dead, wasn't strong enough to see it coming. He let his guard down that is why.

He went down easy. Fact.

Was a nobody in the end.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
He went down easy. Fact.

Was a nobody in the end. False. He went down with his guard down. He led the First Order and anyone with a brain would not believe such absurdity. You may not like him but he led the First Order which dominated the galaxy. Facts.

If he was that smart he would have not let his guard down in the first place.

Originally posted by victreebelvictr
If he was that smart he would have not let his guard down in the first place. He was arrogant and the same pitiful rational applies to Sidious with Vader.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was arrogant and the same pitiful rational applies to Sidious with Vader.

Not really, both scenes are entirely different.

Sidious was distracted with torturing Luke and given Vader limped over to stand next to him, he had zero reason to think Vader would betray him and he wasn't reading his thoughts either.

Snoke meanwhile had said as such that Kylo wouldn't betray him, while sitting on his throne and actively reading every thought and saying that nothing was hidden from him as he read his mind.

Now had Snoke not had done this and said that he was, the scene might be more believable. But it's not, not with the way it was set up.

How can one read one's mind in its entirety and yet still get shocked at the actions said person does? It makes zero sense.