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Superman
Captain Marvel
Flash
Wonder Woman
Super Girl
Quicksilver

you know damn well what you're doing.

this can only end one way

Originally posted by ghostman
you know damn well what you're doing.

this can only end one way

Yup.

I'll just go with Pre-flashpoint versions.


Captain Marvel: 85
Flash: Barry(135) Wally(130)
Wonder Woman: 95
Super Girl: 90
Quicksilver: 20

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yup.
^^^Enabler.

Captain Marvel: 99
Flash: Barry/Wally (off the scale, no scale goes high enough)
Wonder Woman: 95
Super Girl: 90
Quicksilver: 25

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Enabler.

Captain Marvel: 99
Flash: Barry/Wally (off the scale, no scale goes high enough)
Wonder Woman: 95
Super Girl: 90
Quicksilver: 25

Hey, it wasn't even specified if it was combat or travel speed.

To what do you refer, the comment or the list?

I'd put Powergirl/Wonder Woman and Supergirl in the same bracket, Diana being slightly better via skill but still being around that physical area.

And this is how Superman operates around Powergirl
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111307312/5649441-4155991506-55093.jpg

Not to mention there's been instances where Flash was moving and the whole world was frozen I believe characters like Wonder Woman were frozen and Superman sped up his senses to talk to Flash.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'd put Powergirl/Wonder Woman and Supergirl in the same bracket, Diana being slightly better via skill but still being around that physical area.

And this is how Superman operates around Powergirl
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111307312/5649441-4155991506-55093.jpg

Not to mention there's been instances where Flash was moving and the whole world was frozen I believe characters like Wonder Woman were frozen and Superman sped up his senses to talk to Flash.
I agree on the bracket; anywhere from 90-95 for them.

Originally posted by riv6672
To what do you refer, the comment or the list?

The former.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'd put Powergirl/Wonder Woman and Supergirl in the same bracket, Diana being slightly better via skill but still being around that physical area.

And this is how Superman operates around Powergirl
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111307312/5649441-4155991506-55093.jpg

Not to mention there's been instances where Flash was moving and the whole world was frozen I believe characters like Wonder Woman were frozen and Superman sped up his senses to talk to Flash. Was powergirl just fighting because flash could have been there punching someone in the face and superman could have did the same speed feat. Powergirl was not even trying to speed. Also when flash fought Zoom at light speed, Superman was a frozen statue too.

Originally posted by JBL
Was powergirl just fighting because flash could have been there punching someone in the face and superman could have did the same speed feat. Powergirl was not even trying to speed. Also when flash fought Zoom at light speed, Superman was a frozen statue too.

A better question would be, does Powergirl have speed feats to put her on par with Superman's speed feats. If you want the easy answer no she doesnt.

Neither does anyone else on the list minus Flash who exceeds Superman in speed. I think Billy is the closest given he scales off Superman due to lack of appearances.

Flash was speed amped when he fought Zoom by the way. He got speed from Bart and Jay. Regardless Flash is faster than Superman. I'm just saying Supes has the type of speed where the whole world is at a standstill and he could have conversations and discussions. Noone here but Flash has that type of processing and interaction speed.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Superman
Captain Marvel
Flash
Wonder Woman
Super Girl
Quicksilver

Superman 100
Captain Marvel 60
Flash 110+
Wonder Woman 70
Super Girl 70
Quicksilver 50

Originally posted by JBL
Was powergirl just fighting because flash could have been there punching someone in the face and superman could have did the same speed feat. Powergirl was not even trying to speed. Also when flash fought Zoom at light speed, Superman was a frozen statue too.
Flash went lightspeed instantly after absorbing speed from Jay and Bart. Zoom was still a blur to him.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705871_zoomback10.jpg

Then he used Jesse Quick's speed formula which makes time stop for Flash. That's when Superman was frozen compared to him. He was beyond lightspeed at that point.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705886_ROUNDtwoZom3.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705887_ROUNDtwoZom4.jpg

Flash has only once used it and it made him so fast that time was stopped around him and he couldn't even slow himself down.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705900_usespedfom.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705901_usespedfom2.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705902_nearlight.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705903_nearlight2.jpg

But why am I telling this to a troll like you anyway, you will ignore it again of course.

Slightly off topic but Max Mercury could interact with Wally even at that level of speed on his own speed.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705905_mexwa.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705906_mexwa2.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705907_mexwa3.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705908_mexwa4.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705909_mexwa5.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705910_mexwa6.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705911_mexwa7.jpg

Impressive as hell.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The former.
The comment was tongue in cheek.

Superman 100
Captain Marvel 95
Flash 105
Wonder Woman 95
Super Girl 95
Quicksilver 50

Originally posted by riv6672
The comment was tongue in cheek.

As was mine.

So...both our tongues were in the same place.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Superman 100
Captain Marvel 95
Flash 105
Wonder Woman 95
Super Girl 95
Quicksilver 50

In my opinion (and since we are discussing comics, it is all subjective opinion), comparing high-level speed (or high level anything) in comics will always be problematic due to the mix of subjectivity and relativity. Subjectivity of the writer and reader, and the difficulty of relatively comparing high level speed. This, it quickly becomes a pure fan selection poll.

Take for example Quicksilver. Super fast, and last night saw he could move at high supersonic speed. At say Mach 7, a human sized object would be so fast that he would be less than a humming blur from a distance, and closer the flash of a shadow.

However, in WW3 we saw Black Adam moving at Mach 500! Assuming Captain Marvel and Adam are analogous (yes, I know different gods and all that, but they are considered analogous) that shows a tremendous speed difference. So large that one could not compare QS with any primary Shazam-imbued character (e.g. CM and BA). Maybe not even the secondary Shazam-imbued characters like Mary Marvel. The speed difference is too great.

And then we get to Kryptonians, where even Superboy Kon (who is not even a pure K) was shown transversing the globe in like a joke.

And finally the Speedforce-imbued characters that can do speed feats that, in aggregate, don't have much competition. Maybe some of the crazier things the Silver Surfer has done, but in any case not much competition.

It would be difficult to rank a primary Flash against a primary Shazam type, even though a primary Shazam is ridiculously fast. That's just as an example. Imagine now against QS?

if you were standing 300 feet apart from all of them, and told them to run toward you, they would all appear to arrive at exactly the same time. To see a slight difference would probably require for you to be tens of kilometers away, and even then the difference would be between QS and the others (where four of them would seemingly materialize, and QS would come a short while later). From there it gets difficult.

I'd say that a true ranking would never have QS at 20-50 of a Flash type ...maybe he'd be at around 5, maybe less.

What might be even more controversial is what I think the gap is between a fully trying Superman and a Shazam character. It is a big gap.

Or what I think is the gap between a primary Flash going all out and a Kryptonian (also larger than many would be comfortable with).

In both cases, I would say the gap is greater than that between Quick Silver and Captain America in speed.

And then we get back to subjectivity. Just an opinion

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'd put Powergirl/Wonder Woman and Supergirl in the same bracket, Diana being slightly better via skill but still being around that physical area.

And this is how Superman operates around Powergirl
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111307312/5649441-4155991506-55093.jpg

Not to mention there's been instances where Flash was moving and the whole world was frozen I believe characters like Wonder Woman were frozen and Superman sped up his senses to talk to Flash.

Never happened.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Superman
Captain Marvel
Flash
Wonder Woman
Super Girl
Quicksilver

superman 100
cm 80
ww 80 (travel speed)
supergirl 78
quicksilver 5
flash is potentially infinitely faster

We all agree that Flash owns all.

Oh definitely.

Originally posted by carver9
Never happened.

I won't argue against it, just a scan that was shown to me. So I've yet to read it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Flash went lightspeed instantly after absorbing speed from Jay and Bart. Zoom was still a blur to him.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705871_zoomback10.jpg

Then he used Jesse Quick's speed formula which makes time stop for Flash. That's when Superman was frozen compared to him. He was beyond lightspeed at that point.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705886_ROUNDtwoZom3.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705887_ROUNDtwoZom4.jpg

Flash has only once used it and it made him so fast that time was stopped around him and he couldn't even slow himself down.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705900_usespedfom.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705901_usespedfom2.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705902_nearlight.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/32705903_nearlight2.jpg

But why am I telling this to a troll like you anyway, you will ignore it again of course. Give up dude. If supermans speed is a 100, then flash is 2000000000.

At least.

Nope. Supes just had a good race with wally, who is faster than ever.

And matched wally and barry's speed in final crisis when they went
faster than they had ever gone before.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Nope. Supes just had a good race with wally, who is faster than ever.

And matched wally and barry's speed in final crisis when they went
faster than they had ever gone before. Flash would destroy superman in a speed feat war.

Yeah? But he wont in a direct comparison war, as shown in the above examples.

Originally posted by ghostman
you know damn well what you're doing.

this can only end one way

sqcLjcSloXs

Originally posted by JBL
Give up dude. If supermans speed is a 100, then flash is 2000000000.

Originally posted by JBL
Flash would destroy superman in a speed feat war.

Amd thats all there is to it.

Originally posted by JBL
Give up dude. If supermans speed is a 100, then flash is 2000000000.
So you concede you were wrong ,eh?

Originally posted by riv6672
So...both our tongues were in the same place.

Well, that's not disturbing at all.

==

Anyway, as far as the thread goes, I'm not even gonna try to put a number on the Flash. He's faster than anyone here. Superman is probably the closest herald to him in general though, I would imagine.

And that's fine. Its when posters start not so subtly inferring that he's faster than Barry or Wally that i go 'nah'.

My bad. I meant implying.
Though i suppose infer still works, as they look at certain scenes and somehow infer that Superman's just as fast or faster.

Originally posted by riv6672
And that's fine. Its when posters start not so subtly inferring that he's faster than Barry or Wally that i go 'nah'.

Superman should never be faster than the Flash unless there's a plot reason, imo. It makes no sense.

Originally posted by riv6672
And that's fine. Its when posters start not so subtly inferring that he's faster than Barry or Wally that i go 'nah'.

Fully agree. Superman is faster than almost anyone, but the Flash ....no. And to Superman fanboys - that shouldn't take away anything from Superman! He is still ridiculously fast, with the feats to back it. He is also the only non-speedforce/non-time manipulation used that can be considered to be a peer of a primary Flash, but being a peer doesn't mean you are exactly equal. It simply means you can be considered together. Like comparing a Bugatti Veyron to a Ferrari Italia. They may park in the same parking lot, but they're not the same.

Flash has beaten instantaneous teleportation - to which someone will say he was amped. Ok, he was. Flash has handled Zoom - to which the same people will say he was amped. Yes, he was.

However, there are other feats by a non-amped Flash that are crazy ludicrous.

For example when he was dying and the JLA was trying to catch up to him, and the only one who came close was Superman. When Superman almost caught him (and Supes was saying that he could and mentioned the races they had done in the past), Flash simply said 'those were for charity Clark' ....and blitzed away like it was nothing!

Or an even better feat.

When a nuclear weapon detonated in a North Korean city (when Martian Manhunter became the burning Martian), and the Flash evacuated a city of FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND people, taking them in groups of one or two to a point thirty five miles away (meaning, at a minimum of he was taking them in twos, 500,000 trips since he had to go back and forth ...not to mention search for them), in an interval of 0.00001 MICROseconds (a microsecond is a millionth of a second, and he did that in 0.00001 of a millionth of a second).

Someone calculated that it meant Flash was moving at between 9 to 13 trillion times the speed of light (depending on whether he was mostly carrying people in ones or twos).

That's the reason the Flash wins the speed argument against Superman - it is not just the top end speed (I'm sure there are some travel fears for Kal that are insane), but RATHER because of his ability to use that speed.

For you see, the speed force is the perfect Deux ex machina. It means he can travel at crazy speeds without turning the atmosphere to plasma, and it means he can pick people at those speeds (and because the SF covers them too when he touches them) be able to transport them. If Superman even caught someone at multiple of Mach speed, his superhard body would immediately kill them. Flash can do it at multiples the speed of light.

It's his ability to make use of the SF that makes a primary Flash the king of speed when compared to the likes of Superman and the Silver Surfer., even though those two also have some pretty crazy high end feats.

Because of the SF, at the end of the day it is not even a competition.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Fully agree. Superman is faster than almost anyone, but the Flash ....no. And to Superman fanboys - that shouldn't take away anything from Superman! He is still ridiculously fast, with the feats to back it. He is also the only non-speedforce/non-time manipulation used that can be considered to be a peer of a primary Flash, but being a peer doesn't mean you are exactly equal. It simply means you can be considered together. Like comparing a Bugatti Veyron to a Ferrari Italia. They may park in the same parking lot, but they're not the same.

Flash has beaten instantaneous teleportation - to which someone will say he was amped. Ok, he was. Flash has handled Zoom - to which the same people will say he was amped. Yes, he was.

However, there are other feats by a non-amped Flash that are crazy ludicrous.

For example when he was dying and the JLA was trying to catch up to him, and the only one who came close was Superman. When Superman almost caught him (and Supes was saying that he could and mentioned the races they had done in the past), Flash simply said 'those were for charity Clark' ....and blitzed away like it was nothing!


Barry was being powered by Professor Zoom's "Negative Speed Force" in that instance. So, another "he was amped." vin

Originally posted by Delta1938
Barry was being powered by Professor Zoom's "Negative Speed Force" in that instance. So, another "he was amped." vin

Ok.

And the last one for the city?

Originally posted by spetznaz
Fully agree. Superman is faster than almost anyone, but the Flash ....no. And to Superman fanboys - that shouldn't take away anything from Superman!
Thank you.
And very true.