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Which character not counting villains this is a hero thread.

Sentry, or if you want to use strict heroes, Hulk....but even then, he's nit exactly considered a hero as such.

1. Hulk
2. Superman
3. Silver Surfer
4. Batman

I can't think of many hero's that have team showings minus Hulk and Superman.

Oh yeah, and Lobo.

Was keeping both the Suicide Squad AND the JLA, who were blood lusted, busy.

Spiderman is another. Sinister Six, New Sinister Six etc....

Flash has the Rogues.

Also, cap

Black Adam

Thanos, because sometimes he's a hero.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Spiderman is another. Sinister Six, New Sinister Six etc....




I disagree. Don't think Parker should make the list

I just couldn't think of a hero whose rogues regularly form groups.

Thanos, Prime, Black Adam and the two Prometheus

Thanos isnt a hero.

Superman and Hulk have good track records, with Hulk maybe having an edge.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I just couldn't think of a hero whose rogues regularly form groups.

Meh no worries. For what it's worth i wouldn't call supers or hulk team wreckers either.

Why

Originally posted by carver9
Why
i would have gone with 'haha'.

Originally posted by carver9
Why

Because there are always extenuating circumstances...someone on either side is always holding back. Place classic Hulk against a decent Avengers squad (not a bunch of streets and low metas) and hed lose. Same goes for Clark. He can't beat a non jobbing JLA.

When heroes wreck teams someone is always mind controlled, not themselves, not trying to hurt their friends, holding back etc...ive never seen a fight where everyone on both sides is going all out.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because there are always extenuating circumstances...When heroes wreck teams someone is always mind controlled, not themselves, not trying to hurt their friends, holding back etc...
By that generality, no hero is a team wrecker.

Add 'agree to disagree' to 'haha'.

Originally posted by golem370
Which character not counting villains this is a hero thread.

Do heroes going bad (or suffering effects of a darker side- for want of a better definition) count.

If so

Obsidian soloed the JLA until his dad fully cut loose.

Brainwave Jnr soloed a number of JLAers also and soled extreme Justice plus went to town on Alan Scot and Kyle Raynor.

Hellcat went up against a Defenders team (thought that was amped by a hell lord and IIRC possessed)

Robin faced a Brother Blood enraged Titans (that wasn't holding back but he did after all all their weaknesses). that was of course pre COIE Wolfman and Perez era.

There's the wildcat vs the injustice society (but lets be honest that was comlete and utter PIS)

when Stealth went all hormonal IIRC she cut a swaith through Legion (but then again we are talking the enhanced human level alien who occupied Lobo for 7 pages when he was out for Vril's blood and her HF/regen is pretty damn good)

Many a time in Mighty Crusaders Black Bood was the only one standing after his team mates fell, though he never really team wrecked just occupied the enemy villain team with his walking arsenal until his team mates got back into the fight.

Aside from those already mentioned that's the only heroes I can think of that have taken on actual teams

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because there are always extenuating circumstances...someone on either side is always holding back. Place classic Hulk against a decent Avengers squad (not a bunch of streets and low metas) and hed lose. Same goes for Clark. He can't beat a non jobbing JLA.

When heroes wreck teams someone is always mind controlled, not themselves, not trying to hurt their friends, holding back etc...ive never seen a fight where everyone on both sides is going all out.

I have seen Cap tell the Avengers to stop holding back against the Hulk and Hulk still faired well against one of the most powerful Avengers line up to date. He also fought Alpha flight, Xforce (who doesn't believe in holding back), Xmen...he has fought every team on the planet. The holding back argument shouldn't weigh when a character has done this so often with the team being in near fear of facing him.

Originally posted by carver9
I have seen Cap tell the Avengers to stop holding back against the Hulk and Hulk still faired well against one of the most powerful Avengers line up to date. He also fought Alpha flight, Xforce (who doesn't believe in holding back), Xmen...he has fought every team on the planet. The holding back argument shouldn't weigh when a character has done this so often with the team being in near fear of facing him.

I have a hard time believing that line of thinking. Im gonna use Superman because I know how you feel about Hulk

Diana
Martian Manhunter
Flash (any)
GL (Any good one)

These four alone fighting at their best could ATLEAST stalemate supermen. Imo in a forum environment that there is noway for a character whod have a hard time facing these guys solo. Same goes for Hulk, his only saving grace is the avengers squads he's faced ar normally filled with fodder. U wont see him soloing Photon, Classic Thor, Classic Strange, Sentry whoever at the same time. Hed beat a giant man, wasp, cap, ms marvel and jobbing thor roster all day though

Originally posted by carver9
1. Hulk
2. Superman
3. Silver Surfer
4. Batman

I can't think of many hero's that have team showings minus Hulk and Superman.
Thor

Oh,oh.....Namor.

Originally posted by golem370
Which character not counting villains this is a hero thread.

Obviously, Superman.

Lobo. (No more a villain then Guy Gardner really..)

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I have a hard time believing that line of thinking. Im gonna use Superman because I know how you feel about Hulk

Diana
Martian Manhunter
Flash (any)
GL (Any good one)

These four alone fighting at their best could AT LEAST stalemate supermen. Imo in a forum environment that there is noway for a character whod have a hard time facing these guys solo. Same goes for Hulk, his only saving grace is the avengers squads he's faced ar normally filled with fodder. U wont see him soloing Photon, Classic Thor, Classic Strange, Sentry whoever at the same time. Hed beat a giant man, wasp, cap, ms marvel and jobbing thor roster all day though

Conversely, few teams are stacked with all power characters like you're suggesting. Presumably, the Original Poster (OP) of this thread wants us to go by actual showings, and most published "hero versus team" comic book fights do involve the hero versus 1 or 2 big guns, a lot of fodder, people holding back, and/or "The Rule of Ninja" being followed.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Conversely, few teams are stacked with all power characters like you're suggesting. Presumably, the Original Poster (OP) of this thread wants us to go by actual showings, and most published "hero versus team" comic book fights do involve the hero versus 1 or 2 big guns, a lot of fodder, people holding back, and/or "The Rule of Ninja" being followed.

Power Girl holds her own against a team that took down Captain Marvel because of that ninja rule.

Always got wrecked 1 vs 1 against pretty much any big gun.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Conversely, few teams are stacked with all power characters like you're suggesting. Presumably, the Original Poster (OP) of this thread wants us to go by actual showings, and most published "hero versus team" comic book fights do involve the hero versus 1 or 2 big guns, a lot of fodder, people holding back, and/or "The Rule of Ninja" being followed.

The JLA is generally stacked though. Which is my point. There's always a GL, a Flash, two spoerman analogues not named superman, a high level mage or magic tank, a warrior woman, a robot/cyborg and the brain whos generally street level. Its kind of a myth that certain heroes are team wreckers when in reality and taking the fights scenes in addition to context together youd get a better picture.

Spiderman is a prime example of a character who shouldn't beat teams but has a history of doing so

Wolverine.

Spider-man.

Originally posted by cdtm
Power Girl holds her own against a team that took down Captain Marvel because of that ninja rule.

Always got wrecked 1 vs 1 against pretty much any big gun.

Power Girl has an unfair advantage given her ability to.. uh how should I say? DISTRACT her opponents!

Originally posted by cdtm
Power Girl holds her own against a team that took down Captain Marvel because of that ninja rule.

Always got wrecked 1 vs 1 against pretty much any big gun.

Actually the storyline specifically noted that they were handicapped by the mind control, although for a character like her who usually doesn't get much, it was a pretty nice feat.

Spiderman, Black panther, Batman off the top of my head and in that order for the most part.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because there are always extenuating circumstances...someone on either side is always holding back. Place classic Hulk against a decent Avengers squad (not a bunch of streets and low metas) and hed lose. Same goes for Clark. He can't beat a non jobbing JLA.

When heroes wreck teams someone is always mind controlled, not themselves, not trying to hurt their friends, holding back etc...ive never seen a fight where everyone on both sides is going all out. True. If the big guns decide to wreak superman they would. But as you stated, they hold back not wanting to kill or hurt their friend. That's why people THINK some characters are team wreckers when they do good against their team who are not going for the stomp.

Originally posted by JBL
True. If the big guns decide to wreak superman they would. But as you stated, they hold back not wanting to kill or hurt their friend. That's why people THINK some characters are team wreckers when they do good against their team who are not going for the stomp.

Exactly. The character would have to be atleast trans and to beat a non jobbing JLA/Avengers team and both sides would have to not hold back. Those examples exist in Marvel/DC. The closest example was conquest vs invincible and friends...if everyone went all out every fight would look like that

Which is why this scene tickled me:

https://598d5fcf392acad97538-395e64798090ee0a3a571e8c148d44f2.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/13807187_the-power-of-friendship-and-killer-frost_td2d57ab0.jpg

Why? Because the Suicide Squad AND the JLA, were not holding back, because that is what Eclipso does to you:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0X06zg1plqw/WH9z-XT4CKI/AAAAAAABmyk/49miN2UdIEYmSBE_sjIyTzcEba5p9mxewCLcB/s1600/12_05.jpg
Good showing for Lobo.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which is why this scene tickled me:

https://598d5fcf392acad97538-395e64798090ee0a3a571e8c148d44f2.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/13807187_the-power-of-friendship-and-killer-frost_td2d57ab0.jpg

Why? Because the Suicide Squad AND the JLA, were not holding back, because that is what Eclipso does to you:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0X06zg1plqw/WH9z-XT4CKI/AAAAAAABmyk/49miN2UdIEYmSBE_sjIyTzcEba5p9mxewCLcB/s1600/12_05.jpg
Good showing for Lobo.

What book is that? The art is terrible

Justice League vs Suicide Squad. Had the reappearance of Maxwell Lord, plus pre-52 Lobo.

Plus a badass rendition of Waller.

Bbw waller or slim waller?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Bbw waller or slim waller?

BBW, just the way I like her.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-HuXbuEBHMBI/WH-VncZHKhI/AAAAAAABnBU/HBJcZ_UkKmwPtYYnSIwn1fdSYcSHG1dSACLcB/s1600/22_22.jpg

Could be a bit thicker though. I'm not a fan of anorexic Waller.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Actually the storyline specifically noted that they were handicapped by the mind control, although for a character like her who usually doesn't get much, it was a pretty nice feat.

This is about as backhanded as compliments get, and I'm not sure whether the fact Delta probably genuinely DOES consider it a TRUE compliment makes it better or worse.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I have a hard time believing that line of thinking. Im gonna use Superman because I know how you feel about Hulk

Diana
Martian Manhunter
Flash (any)
GL (Any good one)

These four alone fighting at their best could ATLEAST stalemate supermen. Imo in a forum environment that there is noway for a character whod have a hard time facing these guys solo. Same goes for Hulk, his only saving grace is the avengers squads he's faced ar normally filled with fodder. U wont see him soloing Photon, Classic Thor, Classic Strange, Sentry whoever at the same time. Hed beat a giant man, wasp, cap, ms marvel and jobbing thor roster all day though

He fought a team that consisted of...

Ironman
Hercules
Namor
Wonderman
She Hulk
Doc Samson
Photon

And the list goes on and on. Huge team and he was winning until he started to get weaker due to him dying.

Originally posted by carver9
He fought a team that consisted of...

Ironman
Hercules
Namor
Wonderman
She Hulk
Doc Samson
Photon

And the list goes on and on. Huge team and he was winning until he started to get weaker due to him dying.

Did you just google that?

You dont think


"Ironman
Hercules
Namor
Wonderman
She Hulk
Doc Samson
Photon " at their best can't beat Hulk (savage im assuming) in a forum battle?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh,oh.....Namor.
Yeah, that used to be his thing.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Did you just google that?

You dont think


"Ironman
Hercules
Namor
Wonderman
She Hulk
Doc Samson
Photon " at their best can't beat Hulk (savage im assuming) in a forum battle?

Naah, I didn't Google it. You probably need to Google it since it's obvious you haven't read the comic. Anyways, they went all out against a dying Hulk and was still losing. So that should answer your question.

Originally posted by carver9
He fought a team that consisted of...

Ironman
Hercules
Namor
Wonderman
She Hulk
Doc Samson
Photon

And the list goes on and on. Huge team and he was winning until he started to get weaker due to him dying.


Ironman - Low Herald
Hercules - Low Herald
Namor - High Meta
Wonderman - High Meta
She Hulk - High Meta
Doc Samson - not listed
Photon - not listed.

Oh my. That DEF compares to:

Diana - Mid Herald
MM - Mid Herald
Flash - Mid Herald
GL - High Herald

Stacking fodder doesn't create an amalgam that stacks stats on top of each other, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I didn't Google it. You probably need to Google it since it's obvious you haven't read the comic. Anyways, they went all out against a dying Hulk and was still losing. So that should answer your question.
Good answer.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I didn't Google it. You probably need to Google it since it's obvious you haven't read the comic. Anyways, they went all out against a dying Hulk and was still losing. So that should answer your question.

Hmmm...which Hulk are you talking about. I only remember one time where that particular group encountered Hulk i also dont remember Jen being there. Was this mindless? Savage? Educate me

Hulk always wreckin teams in comics. They often put kid gloves on though because he usually fights teams when he's in dumb as rocks causing collateral damage mode.

Like kid who doesn't know any better.

Originally posted by carver9
The holding back argument shouldn't weigh when a character has done this so often with the team being in near fear of facing him.

Except....if you're going to be taking character statements...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111176815/4426317-2096222078-33553.jpg

Post WWH, too.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except....if you're going to be taking character statements...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111176815/4426317-2096222078-33553.jpg

Post WWH, too.

Pretty much. I recently read a comic where Thor stated he couldvd killed Creel ages ago but always held back, then proceeded to bfr him. Not sure y this concept is so difficult to grasp

Hulk for years never killed someone and had Banner in his head also possible holds backs a lot or use too.

Originally posted by golem370
Hulk for years never killed someone and had Banner in his head also possible holds backs a lot or use too.

Yea but the times he fought those Avengers squad Banner wasn't present. So that's him not holding back

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ironman - Low Herald
Hercules - Low Herald
Namor - High Meta
Wonderman - High Meta
She Hulk - High Meta
Doc Samson - not listed
Photon - not listed.

Oh my. That DEF compares to:

Diana - Mid Herald
MM - Mid Herald
Flash - Mid Herald
GL - High Herald

Stacking fodder doesn't create an amalgam that stacks stats on top of each other, lol.

thing about that line-up hulk fought was they were holding back the majority of the time--and hulk didn't really beat....anyone in the line-up. i can't recall if he actually ko'd...anyone in there tbh. maybe samson? and only a couple really pressed the fight, hercules being the major aggressor. namor was a feeb in that arc too so that showing for hulk is very much overrated. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
thing about that line-up hulk fought was they were holding back the majority of the time--and hulk didn't really beat....anyone in the line-up. i can't recall if he actually ko'd...anyone in there tbh. maybe samson? and only a couple really pressed the fight, hercules being the major aggressor. namor was a feeb in that arc too so that showing for hulk is very much overrated. /shrug

U have an issue number Leo? I really cant remember hulk fighting this particular squad

yeah, IH 320 or so. i think i have the e-books somewhere so maybe i can throw some scans up....

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Pretty much. I recently read a comic where Thor stated he couldvd killed Creel ages ago but always held back, then proceeded to bfr him. Not sure y this concept is so difficult to grasp

Well, part of the reason for stuff like THAT is that many such statements are retcons. At the time they were written, it was clear the original authors were having their guy use every resource at disposal.
For the few at the time that DID suggest they were holding back, it was often just barely.
Sometimes it was hyperbole.
Sometimes it was because the hero thought they could do more than they actually could and it was the villain who was choosing to hold back that prevented them from recognizing that fact.
It's also worth mentioning that portrayals of some characters are impressive enough at even 70% power when depicted by certain creative teams, that a reader won't feel like anything is being held back from them.


Then there's a final class.
World War Hulk versus X-Men is a good illustration in this regard.
WWH was a pretty high level engagement by the standards of yesteryear, or even today. The 2 sides are going quite hard there. Plenty of people being hurt or even crippled, bones broken, arms torn, people being booted out of state or beaten senseless. You could ALMOST believe the surprised thoughts of Magneto, seeing the X-men here, of a decade or 2 earlier. Mags in those early classic 1990s comics was actually surprised Wolverine was the one fighting him hardest and most arduously. Mags actually expected such fight-to-the-death mentality from SCott back then, not Logan.

A mystery, and rightly so. The X-Men are generally decent human beings. A fight has to push to the point where NO consideration for their opponent's well being can be afforded. X-Men versus Kuurth was one of the first examples I saw where the X-Men were TRULY ruthless. Under the direction of Scott, it's the only fight I've seen where strategy is employed without ANY concern for whether the X-Men's target survives or not. Scott in that arc made me look at that Magneto comment again. Cannot now recall where any comic where he was depicted as more coldly strategic, and I've been a reader for many years now.

It takes a clearly illustrated example like the Kuurth engagement for people to understand what not holding back actually looks like, though. Until you show people something like that, they'll never get it.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Because there are always extenuating circumstances...someone on either side is always holding back. Place classic Hulk against a decent Avengers squad (not a bunch of streets and low metas) and hed lose. Same goes for Clark. He can't beat a non jobbing JLA.

When heroes wreck teams someone is always mind controlled, not themselves, not trying to hurt their friends, holding back etc...ive never seen a fight where everyone on both sides is going all out. http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/gifs/iuo_zpsf92de141.gif

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, IH 320 or so. i think i have the e-books somewhere so maybe i can throw some scans up....

Oh Byrne Hulk? Around the time Bruce/Betty got married. Got it. Thx

Who asks for evidence AFTER making an opinion dependent on that evidence?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Oh Byrne Hulk? Around the time Bruce/Betty got married. Got it. Thx

byrne started it but the relevant issues were by milgrom, some of the worst "professional" art i've ever seen.....

i do have the books and can maybe post some scans at some point. for most of the battle the heroes were holding back but a couple seemed to maybe be going all out. hulk did have a prolonged battle with samson, and at one point had simon on the ropes, but other then messing up tony's armor a coupe times, hulk really didn't do much. he didn't keep getting stronger though--he'd hit a limit, though the limit was high enough for him to engage a few cl100 guys at the same time. not sure that hulk would have beaten wwh tbh. would have made for an interesting fight.

Carver I believe has some scans too plus just seach Hulk vs Avengers.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Who asks for evidence AFTER making an opinion dependent on that evidence?

Cheerleading for the wrong team luv. If someone makes a reference why not back it up?

Originally posted by leonidas
byrne started it but the relevant issues were by milgrom, some of the worst "professional" art i've ever seen.....

i do have the books and can maybe post some scans at some point. for most of the battle the heroes were holding back but a couple seemed to maybe be going all out. hulk did have a prolonged battle with samson, and at one point had simon on the ropes, but other then messing up tony's armor a coupe times, hulk really didn't do much. he didn't keep getting stronger though--he'd hit a limit, though the limit was high enough for him to engage a few cl100 guys at the same time. not sure that hulk would have beaten wwh tbh. would have made for an interesting fight.

I remember the byrne issues before he left the book. I just dont remember the milgrom ones. I also didnt remember photon being there or jen fighting. The whole set up was that Hulk was no longer holding back. Byrne even used the deer death at the beginning of the arc to showcase hulk was out to kill. Any other hulk wouldve just approached the deer, looked sad as it bolted and then leaped away. This hulk was a killer. Someone also said Hulk was growing weaker in that arc.. He wasnt. Correct me if im wrong but when Samson separated them Banner was the one that was on his death bed...hulk was fine.n

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Cheerleading for the wrong team luv. If someone makes a reference why not back it up? lol? I can back it all up but the issue here and now is you asking others to back up a claim you have which is inexplicable cause of lack of evidence...now you're asking me to back up my claims?

Avengers #1 is a start

There are more then one fight, 1 where he is fighting Iron Man, Herc, Namor, Wonder Man then Samson comes in.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hulk+versus+the+Avengers&client=tablet-android-sprint-us&prmd=vin&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcobnO1e3RAhVH0oMKHcenDpkQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=600#imgrc=rWAh0txgQNMRAM%3A

There are about 10+

Originally posted by psycho gundam
lol? I can back it all up but the issue here and now is you asking others to back up a claim you have which is inexplicable cause of lack of evidence...now you're asking me to back up my claims?

Avengers #1 is a start

Backup? What are you blathering about? I initially made a statement that teams always hold back when dealing with heroes that r friends. Rarely if ever do they go all out. Someone is always pulling punches/holding back/mind controlled etc. Carver made the claim Hulk beat a non holding back team. I simply asked for the issue number because i recall no such incident. To wit he provided none..i had a feeling he was talking about mindless hulk incident but wasnt sure.


Instead of sidelining...coming in on the ass end of a thread with your pom poms ablazing trying to capn-sav-a-hoe maybe you should scroll back a few pages and see wtf im talking about in the first place. Cease and desist the operation bro shield pg. Its unbecoming a senior member.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
This is about as backhanded as compliments get, and I'm not sure whether the fact Delta probably genuinely DOES consider it a TRUE compliment makes it better or worse.

Power Girl is a C-Lister, and treated as such. For example, even though she's got stuff to put her physically above Wonder Woman, she's not going to win without extenuating circumstances.

Not sure what you're going on about anyways. Unless I killed your buzz over that performance with the fact it was specifically noted that those under control were less formidable due to the mind control. Something you ignored so you could push the showing in the thread you saw it in.

Incredible Hulk #322. This is after fighting almost all the Avengers, FF and heroes for hire while steadily weakening.

Your homework is done for you

Galvatron! GALVATRON!

UK Simon Furman version.

He's the king of taking down teams. In the dictionary, his picture is next to "team beater". He terrorized both factions, traumatized Ultra Magnus, gave the Dinobots their worst beating ever, and even defeated combiner team Sea Cons individually AND as Piranacon underwater.

He pretty much single handedly won the Autobot and Decepticon war, going by Galvatron's memories of when he was Megatron, a feat he was well on his way to completing if not for a massive time storm ripping him to shreds.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Incredible Hulk #322. This is after fighting almost all the Avengers, FF and heroes for hire while steadily weakening.

Your homework is done for you

Did i not state that i did not remember Milgroms work and only recalled Byrnes? But sure thx for doing whatever it is you think you've done

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Did i not state that i did not remember Milgroms work and only recalled Byrnes? But sure thx for doing whatever it is you think you've done There was more to it, but I guess your account was hacked, then

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I remember the byrne issues before he left the book. I just dont remember the milgrom ones. I also didnt remember photon being there or jen fighting. The whole set up was that Hulk was no longer holding back. Byrne even used the deer death at the beginning of the arc to showcase hulk was out to kill. Any other hulk wouldve just approached the deer, looked sad as it bolted and then leaped away. This hulk was a killer. Someone also said Hulk was growing weaker in that arc.. He wasnt. Correct me if im wrong but when Samson separated them Banner was the one that was on his death bed...hulk was fine.n

Originally posted by psycho gundam
There was more to it, but I guess your account was hacked, then

More to what? U havent proven anything other than you ability to click the quote button. You conjecture is amusing but pointless

Just say "thank you" and be on your way

Originally posted by Delta1938


Not sure what you're going on about anyways. Unless I killed your buzz over that performance with the fact it was specifically noted that those under control were less formidable due to the mind control. Something you ignored so you could push the showing in the thread you saw it in.



I don't like the character very much; there's no buzz to kill.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Power Girl is a C-Lister, and treated as such. For example, even though she's got stuff to put her physically above Wonder Woman, she's not going to win without extenuating circumstances.


Got a bit of a problem with this, though.
You seem to be saying stars get more props, and SHOULD get more props, simply because they're stars. Whether that's your thinking or not, that's definitely the way a lot of fans think and what you seem to be an advocate of.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I don't like the character very much; there's no buzz to kill.



Got a bit of a problem with this, though.
You seem to be saying stars get more props, and SHOULD get more props, simply because they're stars. Whether that's your thinking or not, that's definitely the way a lot of fans think and what you seem to be an advocate of.

You don't care for the character much, but still pushed the showing as if it were context free even after being shown the context(including the whole brain cap shorting thing that you ignored). mhmm Guess it's just your hate for Superman.

I said stars get more props, yes. SHOULD get more props? Nope. That's at best you misinterpreting what I said. Pointing-out why that's a very good showing for a C-Lister is advocating anything?

Originally posted by Delta1938

You don't care for the character much, but still pushed the showing as if it were context free even after being shown the context(including the whole brain cap shorting thing that you ignored). mhmm Guess it's just your hate for Superman.


Actually, I like Power Girl a lot LESS than Superman. I think it's a shame she exists, truthfully.


Originally posted by Delta1938

I said stars get more props, yes. SHOULD get more props? Nope. That's at best you misinterpreting what I said. Pointing-out why that's a very good showing for a C-Lister is advocating anything?


Most of the time when I hear people put forth that argument, they are indeed advocating the status quo that stars should get props because they are stars, whether or not they actually deserve them. Nevertheless, you say you're not part of that crowd, so, on that point, I apologize.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Cheerleading for the wrong team luv. If someone makes a reference why not back it up?


I remember the byrne issues before he left the book. I just dont remember the milgrom ones. I also didnt remember photon being there or jen fighting. The whole set up was that Hulk was no longer holding back. Byrne even used the deer death at the beginning of the arc to showcase hulk was out to kill. Any other hulk wouldve just approached the deer, looked sad as it bolted and then leaped away. This hulk was a killer. Someone also said Hulk was growing weaker in that arc.. He wasnt. Correct me if im wrong but when Samson separated them Banner was the one that was on his death bed...hulk was fine.n

http://imgur.com/sX6xU5B

http://imgur.com/cIefuFS

you're right, he was initially fine but as time went by he was actually getting weaker until finally he basically burned out. he was still hugely strong at one point and holding off the heroes was fairly impressive, but like i said, they weren't going for the kill until really the very end of the fight when hulk was burning out so impressive, but not as impressive as it is sometimes made out to be imo. especially considering how long samson alone was able to battle him and stay conscious, /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
http://imgur.com/sX6xU5B

http://imgur.com/cIefuFS

you're right, he was initially fine but as time went by he was actually getting weaker until finally he basically burned out. he was still hugely strong at one point and holding off the heroes was fairly impressive, but like i said, they weren't going for the kill until really the very end of the fight when hulk was burning out so impressive, but not as impressive as it is sometimes made out to be imo. especially considering how long samson alone was able to battle him and stay conscious, /shrug

I read it again. Looked it over. Thing is when Byrne was writing the book hulk was fine. There initial separation didn't affect him negatively so when he went apeshit in the desert he was at optimal levels when facing the avengers. However after the wedding and rick getting shot etc...milgrom took over and wrote in the changes weakness/dying as a result of being seperated from banner. Then they remerged and he was more intelligent.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Actually, I like Power Girl a lot LESS than Superman. I think it's a shame she exists, truthfully.




Most of the time when I hear people put forth that argument, they are indeed advocating the status quo that stars should get props because they are stars, whether or not they actually deserve them. Nevertheless, you say you're not part of that crowd, so, on that point, I apologize.

You "think it's a shame she exists, truthfully" but ignored the context when given to you. mhmm

Apology accepted.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Actually, I like Power Girl a lot LESS than Superman. I think it's a shame she exists, truthfully.

Damn, that's cold.