Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Zoom
Wally
Barry

All of the Flashes are using their abilities to the best of their abilities

vs

Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman, Dr. Strange (classic), Doomsday (Gog Wars), The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Quasar, Qztr, Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Swamp Thing, Talisman, Thor, Zoom II (Hunter Solomon)

The entire High Herald tier. Who is winning this?

Zoom 2 soloes them.

Good thread.

The Speedsters win.

Dang, didn't see Zoom II. Exclude him please.

The Flash team.

#Flashfact

Originally posted by carver9
Zoom
Wally
Barry

All of the Flashes are using their abilities to the best of their abilities

vs

Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman, Dr. Strange (classic), Doomsday (Gog Wars), The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Quasar, Qztr, Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Swamp Thing, Talisman, Thor, Zoom II (Hunter Solomon)

The entire High Herald tier. Who is winning this? no hulk?

Flashes throw everybody in the speed force. Superman breaks out and doomsday. Wally runs DD like 7 Universes into the future or to the last universe or the true end of time. And they beat superman to death. But in a none bloodlust them rapes the shit of the Flashes

Originally posted by carver9
Dang, didn't see Zoom II. Exclude him please.

You didn't see something you wrote?

So you don't have a short term memory. This explains a lot..

Originally posted by Galan007
The Speedsters win.

Agreed, but it's odd seeing a near 100% unanimous agreement.

Pitting Barry or Wally again, say, Superman alone usually gets an argument.

Originally posted by cdtm
You didn't see something you wrote?

So you don't have a short term memory. This explains a lot.. As funny as that would be, he just copied the tiers list.

Flashes win

Originally posted by Cogito
As funny as that would be, he just copied the tiers list.

Flashes win

Exactly.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom 2 soloes them.

Good thread.

Can someone explain what makes Zoom so dangerous?

Speed... Or what is perceived as speed, at least.

But its not like Flash type people are unbeatable

Originally posted by golem370
But its not like Flash type people are unbeatable they are beatable with perp

But are they only beat by prep or have they been beaten in random?

Originally posted by golem370
But its not like Flash type people are unbeatable

They are far from unbeatable. A good number of characters can defeat a Primary Flash and/or Zoom. It is just that without prep, or PIS/CIS, many characters below a certain tier cannot defeat a full-out non-CIS/PIS Flash/Zoom. They do so much in a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a microsecond that their opponent wouldn't even know what happened.

Now, I think this thread was a bit disingenuous (why - who the poster is, and the highly noticeable fact that his favorite character is missing - a certain large green beast that he insinuated, to much laughter, on another thread was faster than time).

However, ignoring such silliness (never understood why any poster would love a comic book character so much that they'd be willing to be seen as stupid over it) there are some characters that are difficult (not impossible) to defeat without prep, exotic power sets or simply being too powerful.

I am however not that comfortable with depictions of the Flash in forums. He really has a bad power set for debate, since you either have a 'he wins in a picosecond' or you have a PIS where Captain Boomerang beats him in the comics. Most characters have averages, but Flashes either have a situation where they are absorbing all the kinetic energy of the earth, or where the Weather Wizard is making them sweat.

That is not good for debating. Most other characters, be it Superman or the Hulk, have clearly established averages. Sure, in a Superman vs Hulk thread you'll see our fave Hulk fanboy showing all the Hulk positive extremes (to pump up the Hulk) and all of Superman's negative extremes (to bring down Superman), and our fave Superman fanboy will then step in and post the inverse ...and stupidity ensues. But MOST posters understand the averages of those characters.

But Flashes are difficult. There really is no average ...you have an extreme feat and an underfeat. It would be like having a character who is in one comic issue behaving like Classic Thor, casting super power blasts and even spells that could make classic Dr Strange applaud, and then the next issue behaving like the most he could do is be like young Static Shock ...the cartoon show version.

Writing a Flash must be a hard job for writers, although I realized recently that what DC is trying to do is to explain the inconsistencies away by claiming that Flash has a 'working relationship' with his rogues. That while Flash knows they are criminals, and they know Flash can take them to jail, that both parties treat each other with 'respect' and use kid gloves on each other. This is why the Flash Rogues have been written recently as 'never killing,' and also why when the evil Flash (Johnny Quick I believe) from Earth Three captured Captain Cold and was mocking him asking why Flash had never stopped him, Cold replied that they had an 'understanding' ...before he used his cold gun to freeze Johnny Quick's leg solid, and then broke it in two! My words may be a bit off (I last read it a while back), but DC seems to insinuate that there's some sort of working understanding that may explain the huge inconsistencies with the Flash.

But he's a bad debate character though because you either end up with a boring fight that lasts less than nothing (think what a character who could evacuate that North Korean city of half a million in 0.0001 of a millionth of a second could do in a forum fight) OR a fight is created that is so stacked against the Flash (to make it 'fair') that you have PIS in a forum fight that is not supposed to have PIS (it's like me making a Daredevil fight, and then saying that DD doesn't have his hearing - on top of his blindness - and can only punch with his left hand. After some point the stipulations become silly).

But in a fight you have to take at least two things in to count one the character's personality and two if somebody puts characters from one company against one from another then they're both handicapped by basic knowledge of who they are fighting.

Originally posted by golem370
But in a fight you have to take at least two things in to count one the character's personality and two if somebody puts characters from one company against one from another then they're both handicapped by basic knowledge of who they are fighting.

That's the point I am making Golem. That for the Flash his 'averages' are really non-existent. He is either thinking in picoseconds, can think of millions of scenarios in aninstant like Midnighter on crack, short circuiting the MM's ability to phase, absorbing global kinetic energy, etc. Or he is fighting Captain Boomerang and a talking gorilla and having a hard time.

On your first point - he is all over the place. On your second - even if you had basic knowledge (say the Flash has the speed to evacuate a city of 500,000 in 0.0001 of a microsecond while a nuclear bomb explodes, in what is the fastest speed feat outside Gladiator, Silver Surfer and PC Superman), what good with that knowledge do you? If you had prep yes. Without prep ...all the knowledge will do is make you understand that the moment the fight starts it ends.

Flash is a bad debate character. Either three things happen - the fight starts and immediately ends with a Flash win, or you match the Flash with a character that is above his tier that will defeat the Flash (in many cases defeat the Flash easily) or third you put so many stipulations that the fight becomes unfair. But in a proper forum fight, he's a bad character for debate.

What tier would you put Flash on average?

Originally posted by Cogito
As funny as that would be, he just copied the tiers list.


To be fair, Carter is that bad.

Eh, there is no way speedsters win this.

Originally posted by golem370
What tier would you put Flash on average?

I'd put him in the exact same tier he is in. He does not deserve to be in a higher tier.

I too will support Team High Herald to win this.

Originally posted by cdtm
Agreed, but it's odd seeing a near 100% unanimous agreement.

Pitting Barry or Wally again, say, Superman alone usually gets an argument.

Yeah, but Eobard is here.

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240279-existenceremoval.jpg

Imagine if Pa and Ma Kent...never were. No Lois, Jimmy, Perry, etc.

Or he just bashes Baby Supes with a lump of K-nite?

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240283-zoomtimestop3.jpg
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240284-zoomtimestop4.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but Eobard is here.

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240279-existenceremoval.jpg

Imagine if Pa and Ma Kent...never were. No Lois, Jimmy, Perry, etc.

Or he just bashes Baby Supes with a lump of K-nite?

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240283-zoomtimestop3.jpg
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240284-zoomtimestop4.jpg

Time Trapper tried something along those lines, and failed. Multiple times(er no pun intended).

Originally posted by cdtm
Agreed, but it's odd seeing a near 100% unanimous agreement.

Pitting Barry or Wally again, say, Superman alone usually gets an argument.
Selective arguing. It happens a lot here.

If anyone wants to know where I copied the High Herald group from, please look here.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577922.html

Quick copy and paste which is the reason you do not see Hulk in it. If it makes you feel better, you can take the time and add him.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Time Trapper tried something along those lines, and failed. Multiple times(er no pun intended).

But we also saw how a Flash affected him.. Flashpoint. And that was just Barry being an idiot, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But we also saw how a Flash affected him.. Flashpoint. And that was just Barry being an idiot, lol.

I dunno what's going on with REBIRTH, if it's changed anything. Wasn't it shown in CONVERGENCE that the universes hadn't changed?

Originally posted by Delta1938
I dunno what's going on with REBIRTH, if it's changed anything. Wasn't it shown in CONVERGENCE that the universes hadn't changed?

I meant, the Flashpoint Superman was this:

https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2011/07/gs3.jpg

And that was because Superman's history had been altered. The Kents never found him, etc. And this was a direct result of Barry haphazardly messing around with time.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111245625/4983315-flash-season-1-finale-flashpoint-paradox.jpg

Whereas Thawne is MUCH more surgical and precise.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I meant, the Flashpoint Superman was this:

https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2011/07/gs3.jpg

And that was because Superman's history had been altered. The Kents never found him, etc. And this was a direct result of Barry haphazardly messing around with time.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111245625/4983315-flash-season-1-finale-flashpoint-paradox.jpg

Whereas Thawne is MUCH more surgical and precise.

But wouldn't CONVERGENCE put a wrench in that? After all, among other things, Pre-FLASHPOINT Superman fought his FLASHPOINT counterpart during that.

Time Trapper would also be a lot more precise, and powerful. He had tried several times stuff like that, and it always failed. I'll have to find the scans, I'll get them when I can.

Originally posted by Delta1938
But wouldn't CONVERGENCE put a wrench in that? After all, among other things, Pre-FLASHPOINT Superman fought his FLASHPOINT counterpart during that.

Time Trapper would also be a lot more precise, and powerful. He had tried several times stuff like that, and it always failed. I'll have to find the scans, I'll get them when I can.

Pre could fight Post (and Flashpoint), I guess because of time travel shenanigans.

It doesn't mean that Flashpoint never happened, or more importantly, that Superman's history cannot be altered.

Whilst Time Trapper may have failed, my point is that a Flash (one of the ones in this fight actually) managed to alter his timeline. And he now has help from someone who can do it much more precisely. Carver has made a thread where only one side has PIS/CIS/Whatever off, and has given that team FULL expertise and power.

The only unknown here, tbh, is Qztr.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pre could fight Post (and Flashpoint), I guess because of time travel shenanigans.

It doesn't mean that Flashpoint never happened, or more importantly, that Superman's history cannot be altered.

Whilst Time Trapper may have failed, my point is that a Flash (one of the ones in this fight actually) managed to alter his timeline. And he now has help from someone who can do it much more precisely. Carver has made a thread where only one side has PIS/CIS/Whatever off, and has given that team FULL expertise and power.

The only unknown here, tbh, is Qztr.

From what I remember, CONVERGENCE made it so they were parallel universes, that both existed. Which would mean that it wasn't actually altered, FLASHPOINT was just a different universe. REBIRTH could be contradicting this, though. If it hasn't, and I'm remembering right on CONVERGENCE, you're arguing they'll do something Time Trapper couldn't pull off. Which he couldn't pull off before FLASHPOINT, making your argument PIS.

So forgetting Reverse Flash or time travel (And isn't that a self bfr?)

Could they beat this team conventionally?

So would you take 30% of the herald tier out as well, starting with the most powerful?

And its not self BFR. That only occurs if he cannot return to the battlefield under his own power within a reasonable amount of time....which, as its Zoom, is laughable.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So would you take 30% of the herald tier out as well, starting with the most powerful?

And its not self BFR. That only occurs if he cannot return to the battlefield under his own power within a reasonable amount of time....which, as its Zoom, is laughable.

I hate to be "that guy" (Rules stickler), but since I'm being called out:




Full disclosure, I wasn't even sure KMC had this rule when I brought it up, but it's usually standard most places.

So there.

Yah. So he can make it back!

I put him the same category as Nughtcrawler, who BMAFs into another dimension and comes back.

For the Marvel heralds how would the flashes know when and where to effect them?

Originally posted by golem370
For the Marvel heralds how would the flashes know when and where to effect them?

He studies them. He's a time manipulator - he has alll the time in the world. Here, he studies Barry Allen's entire life history, before deciding exactly when and where to strike:
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240281-zoomtimestop1.jpg

Neutral setting means everything is present in a weird mishmash universe (my reading of it).


And even if they are from different universes, he can do it:
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240169-flashpoint8.jpg
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240172-flashpoint9.jpg
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240173-flashpoint91.jpg

Well yeah... And there's also stuff like this:

http://i.imgur.com/LWotVMJ.jpg


In short: each of the Flashes can calculate infinite scenarios, nigh-instantly.

in spite of all the times those types of scans are shown, people STILL don't get how powerful these flashes are. they are ridiculous when just their high end (and even just regular end) stuff is examined.

Originally posted by leonidas
in spite of all the times those types of scans are shown, people STILL don't get how powerful these flashes are. they are ridiculous when just their high end (and even just regular end) stuff is examined.

Quoted for truth. Outside PIS/CIS, there are not many characters in their tier that can defeat a primary Flash and/or Zoom. There are many characters that can defeat a primary Flash/Zoom, just not in their tier.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yah. So he can make it back!

I put him the same category as Nughtcrawler, who BMAFs into another dimension and comes back.

I should have bolded the specific part.

But top line, if they leave on purpose, they forfeit. If they're forced off the field, THEN they get to come back.

:


There we go.

So Zoom's time traveling becomes an instant forfeit, as that would be leaving the battlefield on purpose.

So Nightcrawler forfeits every match he's in?

But look at the last part of the quote. Obviously, if they leave and CANNOT RETURN UNDER THEIR OWN POWER.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He studies them. He's a time manipulator - he has alll the time in the world. Here, he studies Barry Allen's entire life history, before deciding exactly when and where to strike:
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240281-zoomtimestop1.jpg

Neutral setting means everything is present in a weird mishmash universe (my reading of it).


And even if they are from different universes, he can do it:
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240169-flashpoint8.jpg
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240172-flashpoint9.jpg
http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240173-flashpoint91.jpg

Those are scan are DC characters but the Marvel heralds are from a different reality so in less Zoom can reality jump those herald should be immune to Zoom time attacks.

The realities' are shared, dude. Otherwise you might as well argue there's no speed force in marvel, so etc etc etc.

Realites are shared who said that it usually in DC or in Marvel or Neutral battle fields.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So Nightcrawler forfeits every match he's in?

But look at the last part of the quote. Obviously, if they leave and CANNOT RETURN UNDER THEIR OWN POWER.

Sure, but in context with the first part, we can assume it means "involuntary".

And Nightcrawler is a good point.

Anyways, the mods can make a ruling if they want. I'm just throwing it out there like I did my query about it earlier.

Originally posted by golem370
Realites are shared who said that it usually in DC or in Marvel or Neutral battle fields.

Yah, neutral. So everything all mushed together.i assuming that since we're now nitpicking rules, that the HH tied Ave no answer to the Flashes at full capacity?

Neutral I thought not using either side we need the op to make a decision on it.

Then.....does the Speed force (which only exists in DC) exist in this neutral universe?

Power Cosmic? Only Marvel has it. Does this neutral universe have it too?

Zoom's MO is messing with timelines. Phucking people up with his timeline based powers. Take that away, just to give one side a chance....apeaks volumes.

Edit: OPsaid Team Flash are using their abilities to the fullest.

Originally posted by Badabing
Concerning the Battlefield
All characters, regardless of where the fight takes place, or what universe/medium they are native to, will have full access to their abilities at optimum efficiency as they are depicted in their native universes. It will be assumed that each character fights as they are normally presented regardless of battle locale. This means that, for example, Flash will in fact have SpeedForce abilities if the battle took place in Marvel Manhattan. Battles will always take place on an assumed equal playing field.

Link to the forum rules: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html


Golem, you have been a member here for nearly 12 years, and have made the second most amount of threads on this entire site:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/memberlist.php?what=topstarters&perpage=25

How can you possibly not know one of the most basic forum rules? ermm

Well I want clarity on how Zoom could effect people whos timeline is in a different reality and since there is no info on battle ground I am even more confused.

Originally posted by Galan007
Golem, you have been a member here for nearly 12 years, and have made the second most amount of threads on this entire site:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/memberlist.php?what=topstarters&perpage=25

How can you possibly not know one of the most basic forum rules? ermm

Basically I just didn't know.

No worries. Hopefully that's ironed-out now.

Originally posted by Galan007
Golem, you have been a member here for nearly 12 years, and have made the second most amount of threads on this entire site:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/memberlist.php?what=topstarters&perpage=25

How can you possibly not know one of the most basic forum rules? ermm Goddamn, I didn't realize Zack has that many threads.

^ ikr?

He has been a member for ~8 years, and has created ~9,900 threads. That works out to a minimum of 3 new threads every single day. ermmnone

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So Nightcrawler forfeits every match he's in?

But look at the last part of the quote. Obviously, if they leave and CANNOT RETURN UNDER THEIR OWN POWER.
Yeah but ignoring the spirit of the rule. Nightcrawler isn't actually hanging out in that other dimention, crossing it is just part of his power. Technically yes it would ualify as a rule violation, but it's so fundamental a part of his teleportation on a basic level that a "no teleportation" stipulation makes more sense if a threads intent is to bar it. By the same token, characters who shunt their molecules to another dimention in order to phase would also technically qualify, but not really by forum standards. What you're talking about though is Zoom consciously leaving the established field of combat and spending time there relative to his perceptions in order to gain an advantage which would be a clear intentional violation of the rule. That's why you'll never see me pitching for Surfer to time travel to prevent an opponents birth(barrin some extreme thread stipulations) even though he's done it too. Thanos isn't allowed to take off and retrieve a cosmic cube or the IG even if he teleports back to the same instant he left, Supes isn't allowed to take off to sun dip, time travelers like Zoom and Kang can't take a vacation away from the battle to acquire prep time that's not stipulated or set up traps and such for opponents.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but ignoring the spirit of the rule. Nightcrawler isn't actually hanging out in that other dimention, crossing it is just part of his power. Technically yes it would ualify as a rule violation, but it's so fundamental a part of his teleportation on a basic level that a "no teleportation" stipulation makes more sense if a threads intent is to bar it. By the same token, characters who shunt their molecules to another dimention in order to phase would also technically qualify, but not really by forum standards. What you're talking about though is Zoom consciously leaving the established field of combat and spending time there relative to his perceptions in order to gain an advantage which would be a clear intentional violation of the rule. That's why you'll never see me pitching for Surfer to time travel to prevent an opponents birth(barrin some extreme thread stipulations) even though he's done it too. Thanos isn't allowed to take off and retrieve a cosmic cube or the IG even if he teleports back to the same instant he left, Supes isn't allowed to take off to sun dip, time travelers like Zoom and Kang can't take a vacation away from the battle to acquire prep time that's not stipulated or set up traps and such for opponents.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but ignoring the spirit of the rule. Nightcrawler isn't actually hanging out in that other dimention, crossing it is just part of his power. Technically yes it would ualify as a rule violation, but it's so fundamental a part of his teleportation on a basic level that a "no teleportation" stipulation makes more sense if a threads intent is to bar it. By the same token, characters who shunt their molecules to another dimention in order to phase would also technically qualify, but not really by forum standards. What you're talking about though is Zoom consciously leaving the established field of combat and spending time there relative to his perceptions in order to gain an advantage which would be a clear intentional violation of the rule. That's why you'll never see me pitching for Surfer to time travel to prevent an opponents birth(barrin some extreme thread stipulations) even though he's done it too. Thanos isn't allowed to take off and retrieve a cosmic cube or the IG even if he teleports back to the same instant he left, Supes isn't allowed to take off to sun dip, time travelers like Zoom and Kang can't take a vacation away from the battle to acquire prep time that's not stipulated or set up traps and such for opponents.

You make a good argument.

But, you were also upvoted by Carver. Therefore, you must be wrong.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but ignoring the spirit of the rule. Nightcrawler isn't actually hanging out in that other dimention, crossing it is just part of his power. Technically yes it would ualify as a rule violation, but it's so fundamental a part of his teleportation on a basic level that a "no teleportation" stipulation makes more sense if a threads intent is to bar it. By the same token, characters who shunt their molecules to another dimention in order to phase would also technically qualify, but not really by forum standards. What you're talking about though is Zoom consciously leaving the established field of combat and spending time there relative to his perceptions in order to gain an advantage which would be a clear intentional violation of the rule. That's why you'll never see me pitching for Surfer to time travel to prevent an opponents birth(barrin some extreme thread stipulations) even though he's done it too. Thanos isn't allowed to take off and retrieve a cosmic cube or the IG even if he teleports back to the same instant he left, Supes isn't allowed to take off to sun dip, time travelers like Zoom and Kang can't take a vacation away from the battle to acquire prep time that's not stipulated or set up traps and such for opponents.

Then that ignores the spirit of this thread, where the Flashes are meant to be at max capacity, using all of their abilities to the fullest.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but Eobard is here.

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240279-existenceremoval.jpg

Imagine if Pa and Ma Kent...never were. No Lois, Jimmy, Perry, etc.

Or he just bashes Baby Supes with a lump of K-nite?

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240283-zoomtimestop3.jpg
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107619/2240284-zoomtimestop4.jpg

these scans look dope what arc or issues are they from?

Flash: Rebirth- Reverse-Flash.

ty man

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then that ignores the spirit of this thread, where the Flashes are meant to be at max capacity, using all of their abilities to the fullest.
I wouldn't really say it ignores the spirit of the thread to assume that forum rules are still in place beyond the Flash's out of character level of determination to win. I mean just because one standard is noted as being an exception to the norm doesn't mean that all bets are off in regards to the rest of the typical forum rules. I can understand how some thread starters might mean that kind of thing and simply didn't think to nullify every other rule, but since Carver is the thread starter and gave my post a thumbs up it genuinely doesn't seem to be the case here. If I personally made a thread where Surfer used his abilities to the fullest I certainly wouldn't mean that he's allowed to leave the battlefield to prevent their birth, only that he's doing whatever he can against his opponents in direct confrontation.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I wouldn't really say it ignores the spirit of the thread to assume that forum rules are still in place beyond the Flash's out of character level of determination to win. I mean just because one standard is noted as being an exception to the norm doesn't mean that all bets are off in regards to the rest of the typical forum rules. I can understand how some thread starters might mean that kind of thing and simply didn't think to nullify every other rule, but since Carver is the thread starter and gave my post a thumbs up it genuinely doesn't seem to be the case here. If I personally made a thread where Surfer used his abilities to the fullest I certainly wouldn't mean that he's allowed to leave the battlefield to prevent their birth, only that he's doing whatever he can against his opponents in direct confrontation.

Nightcrawler isn't the only example.

As you noted, phase shifters are the same. They are deliberately leaving the field of battle and spending time there, relative to their perceptions, to gain an advantage.

Zoom uses it as a tactic fairly often.

http://pm1.narvii.com/5833/3176654b7642e1807f4951d25e507c3ba26e6e22_hq.jpg

To handicap him in this way, with an appeal to the rules is....after all, as you said, it's carver's thread.

But the fact that rather then argue against it, you simply hand wave it away (whilst allowing others like the phasers and the teleporters) speaks volumes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nightcrawler isn't the only example.

As you noted, phase shifters are the same. They are deliberately leaving the field of battle and spending time there, relative to their perceptions, to gain an advantage.

Zoom uses it as a tactic fairly often.

http://pm1.narvii.com/5833/3176654b7642e1807f4951d25e507c3ba26e6e22_hq.jpg

To handicap him in this way, with an appeal to the rules is....after all, as you said, it's carver's thread.

But the fact that rather then argue against it, you simply hand wave it away (whilst allowing others like the phasers and the teleporters) speaks volumes.
I'm not denying that it's something he does, just that a tactic like that doesn't really conform to forum standards. By the same token, we don't assume that Thanos, Reed Richards, Lex Luthor, Dr. Doom, or Batman has some basic level of prep for things even though prepping for opponents is such an integral part of each of those characters. With Nightcrawler and phasers, we assume that they're still allowed to use their powers because it's ridiculous to make thread starters stipulate that they're allowed to use their powers in every thread they're featured in just because the explanation of how their powers work inherently violates forum rules. It's not that Zoom's powers inherently violate forum rules, it's just that the specific tactic you're suggesting does. Even when a character can fly and even if they have a tendency to fly away from confrontation, they're still not allowed to fly off of the established battlefield.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm not denying that it's something he does, just that a tactic like that doesn't really conform to forum standards. By the same token, we don't assume that Thanos, Reed Richards, Lex Luthor, Dr. Doom, or Batman has some basic level of prep for things even though prepping for opponents is such an integral part of each of those characters. With Nightcrawler and phasers, we assume that they're still allowed to use their powers because it's ridiculous to make thread starters stipulate that they're allowed to use their powers in every thread they're featured in just because the explanation of how their powers work inherently violates forum rules. It's not that Zoom's powers inherently violate forum rules, it's just that the specific tactic you're suggesting does. Even when a character can fly and even if they have a tendency to fly away from confrontation, they're still not allowed to fly off of the established battlefield.

Then I guess the OP should have clarified sooner what was or wasn't allowed - the use of the sentence 'All of the Flashes are using their abilities to the best of their abilities' means that...well, they've been given carte blanche, beyond forum rules (as seen with other threads where forum rules are lifted by OP stips).

If OP then wants to subsequently come in and thumb a post up on page 4...that's neither here nor there.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then I guess the OP should have clarified sooner what was or wasn't allowed - the use of the sentence 'All of the Flashes are using their abilities to the best of their abilities' means that...well, they've been given carte blanche, beyond forum rules (as seen with other threads where forum rules are lifted by OP stips).

If OP then wants to subsequently come in and thumb a post up on page 4...that's neither here nor there.
A stipulation that the rules in regards to things remaining "in character" are null for the thread has no bearing on the other rules. By the same token, a telepath using his abilities to the utmost extrapolations of his abilities still isn't able to summon and compel people who aren't involved in the fight because the ruling against outside help is separate from the rules about things being "in character".

Originally posted by darthgoober
A stipulation that the rules in regards to things remaining "in character" are null for the thread has no bearing on the other rules. By the same token, a telepath using his abilities to the utmost extrapolations of the abilities still isn't able to summon and compel people who aren't involved in the fight because the ruling against outside help is seperate from the rulings in regards to "in character".

Where does it say 'in character'?

OP said 'they are using their abilities to the best of their abilities'.

Telepaths are a red herring. The battlefield has named battlers, and bringing in XYZ is completely different.

If you want to apply the rules as laid out, that's fine. There is plenty of scope to argue the rules as they are written, with plenty of loopholes. Teleporters and phasers are automatically disqualified (after all, Nightcrawler still has his agility and stealth powers, plus sword fighting skills to use). The instant he uses his main go -to tactic, he loses.

Same with the phasers. They ALL have other tactics, and skills they can use. Even Kitty - she's a trained ninja with computer hacking skills -assuming she shunts her atoms. I never know with them.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where does it say 'in character'?

OP said 'they are using their abilities to the best of their abilities'.

Telepaths are a red herring. The battlefield has named battlers, and bringing in XYZ is completely different.

If you want to apply the rules as laid out, that's fine. There is plenty of scope to argue the rules as they are written, with plenty of loopholes. Teleporters and phasers are automatically disqualified (after all, Nightcrawler still has his agility and stealth powers, plus sword fighting skills to use). The instant he uses his main go -to tactic, he loses.

Same with the phasers. They ALL have other tactics, and skills they can use. Even Kitty - she's a trained ninja with computer hacking skills -assuming she shunts her atoms. I never know with them.
The OP doesn't say the words "in character" but that's the obvious extrapolation of of the stipulation.

And just as there are named characters doing battle, the default arena has set parameters that the characters aren't allowed to leave. Now if you want to go around trying to push the idea that Nightcrawler and Kitty Pride aren't allowed to use their powers then that's up to you, but we all know that's never going to go over because the Mod's aren't about to require that it be stipulated that characters are allowed to use their primary powers.

If you really doubt what I'm saying, just ask Pr if time travelers like Zoom, Kang, or Surfer are allowed to take off to Oregon 1975 to prevent the birth of a hero in an arena match... I'm all but positive that he'll say such a thing would violate the rules regarding self BFR even if the characters are allowed to use their abilities to the fullest.

Time shit doesn't work on Superman.

We saw that when he fought the evil 5D imp.