Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

The thread I just posted a few hours ago was actually a troll thread, it was purposely poorly put together, just to see if anybody would take the bait, the results were not disappointing. This is the actual argument I have. It's much more well put together and written in my opinion, as well as the opinions of those who read it where I posted it the first time. I'm sharing this one as evidence that I can actually make a good argument and that I'm not actually a complete idiot, as some of you probably think.

I'll start by looking at their accolades, specifically those that state them as being the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Both of them have these accolades, and both of them have several of these accolades at that. The difference is that Viiate's are newer. A quote by Leland Chee would suggest that all newer content overwrites older sources and another one from him states that any source can be challenged if there is a notable contradiction in either another source, whether it be accolades or feats.

Now I'll look at their actual power. Sidious is stated as being an "event horizon" and a "black hole" in the Force, where-as Vitiate is stated as being a "god-like avatar of the Dark SIde" Vitiate is also powerful enough that he is actually a Sith entity, meaning he doesn't need to have a physical form to retain most of his power. Darth Marr was actually afraid of how powerful Vitiate could become without a corporeal vessel. In "Rise of the Emperor", Vitiate was able consume the population of Ziost with no rituals, just a full powered drain. While it's true that Sidious was able to hide himself from right under the nose of the Jedi, which is incredibly impressive, it's also known that several other, far less powerful Sith, were able to do so as well; such as Darth Zannah and (more impressively) Baral Ovair, who hid his presence as a Sith agent for decades. Vitiate himself hid from the Jedi for over a millenium, and the Jedi never got more than inkling of a though that something was wrong. Suggesting Vitiate's power to conceal himself is much greater than Sidious' own.

We can also look at their examples of planetary drain. Sidious was able to drain the population of Byss slowly to retain his power, but it required that he focused on doing so for all that time, implying that it wasn't easy for him to do. Vitiate's example of planetary drain, draining Ziost, was immediate, and not only killed and absorbed all sentient beings on the planet, it also left Ziost a barren wasteland. Another comparison of their actual power is this, Sidious is the greatest example of Banite scaling done right. He has more power behind him than any of the previous Banite Sith Lords, and considerably so at that. Hence his accolades of being an event horizon and a black hole and what have you. Vitiate, however, contains, at BASE (considering him post Nathema ritual as base) has the combined power of 8000 Sith Lords from Nathema, keep in mind that these were Sith alive during the golden age of the Sith, meaning they would have been powerful. He was so powerful that his mere presence on Dromund Kaas turned it into a stormy and dark planet, and he turned the planet into a Nexus of Dark Side energy by simply being there and performing other rituals. Let's also not forget that Luke Skywalker compared Sidious to Exar Kun, suggesting that even Exar Kun (who is canonically inferior to Vitiate) may be on par with at least ROTS Sidious.

So now, we know that lesser Sith have been capable of doing things that Sidious has done, on the exact same scale. And we know that Vitiate was able to do these things on a larger scale. We also know that Vitiate is an entity, which is a level of power that Sidious has never reached, or at least is never directly stated as having reached.

Now we look at their most impressive feats. Let's go right to the one everybody is going to bring up, Force Storms. Many Sidious advocates will use this argument to say that Sidious is more powerful than any other Sith Lord; I disagree. We know from Dark Empire that Sidious' Dark Side Acolytes, when they use their strength together, are capable of summoning these storms, and they're significantly weaker than Sidious is. We also know that Jedi Master Thon is credited with the ability to use these storms as well. This puts things into perspective, because now we know that Sidious isn't the only person that can use Force Storms, which makes Sidious' feat considerably less impressive now. Sidious is also stated as being believed to have learned all Dark Side powers in existence, with the ability to formulate new ones at will, this is also highly contestable. As the quote never actually direct says that "Sidious learned all power, the end" it says that he is BELIEVED to have done so, meaning that Sidious' mastery of every ability is really nothing more than a rumor and conjecture. Just as well, his supposed ability to create new powers on a whim is ludicrous s well, as Sidious never once demonstrates a power of his own creation like that. On the flip side of that, Vitiate is directly stated a having delved into the deepest and darkest aspects of the Force in his pursuit for immortality and power, mastering every ability he came across.

Vitiate, as a boy, was able to mentally dominate Lord Dramath and kill him at the age of 10, and at the age of 13 Vitiate had become powerful enough to gain the notice of Marka Ragnos, the most powerful Dark Lord to live up until that point in time. Sidious was certainly powerful as a child, but to easily dominate and kill a fully trained Sith Lord at age 10 is something we never seen from young Palpatine. We should also consider that Sidious, as the Emperor, was nearly killed on Korriban by the spirits of long dead Sith; Vitiate was the most powerful ancient Sith. If Sidious was incapable of dealing with the weakened spirits of unnamed Sith Lords, then why should he be able to defeat Vitiate, who is factually far more powerful than any of those ancient Sith? Let's also not forget that Vitiate easily defeated not one, but two of his Dark Councils that plotted against him. Destroying them, supposedly with ease.

Now let's look at them as spirits. This is honestly where Vitiate trumps Sidious without question. Vitiate is stated as being an entity, which as I said earlier, means he doesn't need to have a physical body to retain a large portion of his power. This is made quite evident by his draining of Ziost as a spirit, as well as his many feats in KOTFE and KOTET as a spirit, including ragdolling the Outlander, and incinerating Skytroopers with a wave of Dark Side energy, or using his weakened power to easily dispatch his son Arcann. The point being, Vitiate/Valkorion is still IMMENSELY powerful as a spirit. Sidious, on the other hand, is useless as a spirit. He can't do anything combative as a spirit aside from essence transfer. So if the two encountered each other as spirits, Vitiate/Valkorion would dominate him.

No we get to examine their lightning. Sidious has some of the most impressive lightning in the mythos, capable of turning stormtroopers to ash, assist in the overpowering of Vader's lightning resistant suit, and even overpower Yoda, one of the most powerful Jedi in the mythos. Sidious can even bend his lightning, curving it towards his intended target, which is a feat no other Sith Lord has achieved. Sidious control of lightning is unmatched, but what of its actual power? I'm of the mind that Sidious' lightning may not actually be the most powerful display of lightning we've ever seen from a Sith Lord, despite accolades to the contrary.

So let's look at his lightning, and then we'll examine Vitiate/Valkorion's. Sidious was able to turn Stormtroopers into ash with casual ease, but this is honestly made slightly less impressive by the fact that the Starkiller clone was also capable of such a thing, and Starkiller not only completely destroyed the Stormtroopers, but there was nothing left of them in the end, not even ashes. Which begs the question, is even Starkiller's lightning actually more powerful than Sidious? Based on the evidence, it's hard to be sure, but a case can certainly be made. Sidious' lightning was also not enough to kill Vader on its own, despite him using his full strength just before Vader killed him. It was the wave of Dark Side energy released from Sidious' death that actually ended up being what killed Vader, not the lightning. And on top of that, Sidious in Dark Empire fired lightning at Luke Skywalker, and Luke was able to get up from it almost immediately, as if nothing really happened. One could argue that Sidious was holding back in DE with Luke. But what reason would he have for that aside from he was trying to turn Luke to the Dark Side? Would Sidious not try to demonstrate the full power of the Dark Side to relay his message? Anyway, now we see that Sidious has never actually easily destroyed a Jedi of notable strength with lightning. The only time it could be argued that Sidious used his full power against a Jedi in the form of lightning and won, was his fight with Yoda ( I don't include Windu because he was injured and distracted when he died, basically he died by cheap-shot) and even then, Yoda wasn't killed, and only his clothes actually appeared to be burned, which means the lightning may have left minor burns at most. Compare this to Vitiate, who (vastly before his prime) had lightning that was "infinitely more powerful" than that of Darth Nyriss. Darth Nyriss' lightning was powerful enough to turn two guards into charred husks, and was (after charging it for a short time) capable of turning both Meetra Surik (the era's second most powerful Jedi) and Lord Scourge, into ash.

Now, Vitiate's PRE-PRIME lightning is FAR more powerful than that, by Revan's admission, and keep in mind that Revan was the one who killed Nyriss with her own lightning. So by all rights, Vitiate's lightning should have been capable of turning ashes into ashes. Fast-forward a little bit, about 300 years later, and we see a strike team of some of the Jedi Order's most powerful members, including the Hero of Tython and Master Told Braga, easily defeated by a storm of Force lightning, keep in mind that he does this extremely easily, and also be aware that this is Vitiate using a Voice; meaning this is not Vitiate using his full power, as he isn't in his original body. Going back to Vitiate's fight with Revan, Vitiate's lightning was powerful enough to overwhelm Revan completely, leaving Revan motionless on the floor with 2nd and 3rd degree burns. So Vitiate was powerful enough to not only get some of his lightning through Revan's defenses, but also managed to stop Revan in his tracks right then and there. Keep in mind that Revan is, by far, the most powerful Jedi that has ever lived up until point, and is likely the second or third most powerful Jedi that will EVER live. We should also look at Sidious' and Vitiate/Valkorion's defeat of Vader level Sith Lords. Sidious' lightning was incapable of killing Vader on its own, instead (as I mentioned before) the Dark Side energy released by Sidious' death is what really did the most damage to Vader, as we've seen Vader tank powerful lightning before.

Switch on over to Darth Marr, a nigh Malgus level combatant, who via power-scaling is comparable to Vader. Marr himself wears protective armor, probably not as resistant to lightning as Vader's is, but still enough to easily protect him from most damage barring a direct hit from a lightsaber. Valkorion was able to EASILY destroy Darth Marr, casually one-shotting Marr, a nigh Vader tier Sith Lord. Also keep in mind that Valkorion almost immediate did the same thing to prince Arcann, Arcann being a Vader+ level Force user and combatant.

We should briefly examine sorcery. The only real point to make here is that Vitiate was the greatest sorcerer alive in an era of great sorcerers. And while Sidious has knowledge and mastery of sorcery, he isn't as open in its use as Vitiate is. Meaning Vitiate is likely more apt to use it in a fight than Sidious is.

So based on this, we can see that while Sidious has more control over lightning, Vitiate/Valkorion's is more outright destructive and deadly than Sidious' is.

I know this seems like I'm trying to lowball Sidious, but I'm really not trying to do that at all. While I really don't like Sidious, he's still easily one of the most powerful characters in the mythos. This thread was at the behest of Raul Macedo, who suggested I make a thread like this for Vitiate vs Sidious and Revan vs Sidious. I know there are probably things I'm missing, but ultimately I think I got the point across and I think I still used enough good examples for Sidious' power compared to Vitiate's for most people to get this thread. I'm also kind of tired, so if this thread seems to be of low-ish quality, or if I didn't seem to try very hard, I did the best with the level of energy I currently have.

Here's how the fight might play out.

A fight between Vitiate and Sidious would really be mostly a Force duel, with minimal use of lightsabers. Sidious would attempt to taunt Vitiate as Vitiate attempted to dominate Sidious' will, and when nether of their strategies worked, they would begin the actual fight. Lightning would be their first answer, throwing all they had at each other, and while Sidious' lightning would be more accurate and focused, Vitiate's would be more overwhelmingly powerful, eventually forcing Sidious back on his other powers. Sidious would attempt using TK, which Vitiate would bat aside easily, and as somebody pointed out in the Revan vs Sidious analysis, Sidious would likely not fall back on sorcery to help him, where-as Vitiate will. It's at this point where Sidious would activate his lightsaber in attempt to deflect Vitiate's lightning, this would work for a time but would quickly fail Sidious, forcing the Sith Lord to revert back to using his Force powers. It's at this point that Sidious would fir a well placed shot of lightning that would take Vitiate to his knees. Both Sith would then begin mustering up their power for one last attack, both knowing that they would fall if they didn't do their absolute best in this instant. Both Sith launch their lightning, Sidious' comes in a thin streak (as it usually does) and Vitiate's comes in a massive torrent (as it usually does) in a meeting of accuracy vs firepower. In the end of it, either Vitiate or Sidious lays dead. If Sidious is the dead one, then great, Vitiate just won. But if Sidious is the victor, he isn't for very long. Vitiate's spirit returns to the field and attacks the now severely wounded and weakened Sidious, either killing him or taking Sidious' body as his new vessel.

Please note that this is a scenario that COULD happen, not one that WOULD happen. It's also very possible for Sidious to win. But I see Vitiate winning at least 5/10 times.

Nobody will read this is you don't use paragraphs kek.

Most of that was cancer, regardless.

Originally posted by MythLord
Most of that was cancer, regardless. Damn, you must read fast.

Originally posted by darthbane77
It's much more well put together and written

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/3204777/lmao-o.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nobody will read this is you don't use paragraphs kek. I fixed it.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Damn, you must read fast.

Quite. To be fair, I skipped some of the parts that made my head start to hurt.

Originally posted by MythLord
Quite. To be fair, I skipped some of the parts that made my head start to hurt. lol

To be fair, I'm not actually trying to convince anybody that I'm correct. the Sole purpose is to show that, no matter how cancerous you might think the argument is, that I CAN form a cohesive argument. That I'm not actually a terrible debater and I generally do know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by darthbane77


A fight between Vitiate and Sidious would really be mostly a Force duel, with minimal use of lightsabers. Sidious would attempt to taunt Vitiate as Vitiate attempted to dominate Sidious' will, and when nether of their strategies worked, they would begin the actual fight. Lightning would be their first answer, throwing all they had at each other, and while Sidious' lightning would be more accurate and focused, Vitiate's would be more overwhelmingly powerful, eventually forcing Sidious back on his other powers. Sidious would attempt using TK, which Vitiate would bat aside easily, and as somebody pointed out in the Revan vs Sidious analysis, Sidious would likely not fall back on sorcery to help him, where-as Vitiate will. It's at this point where Sidious would activate his lightsaber in attempt to deflect Vitiate's lightning, this would work for a time but would quickly fail Sidious, forcing the Sith Lord to revert back to using his Force powers. It's at this point that Sidious would fir a well placed shot of lightning that would take Vitiate to his knees. Both Sith would then begin mustering up their power for one last attack, both knowing that they would fall if they didn't do their absolute best in this instant. Both Sith launch their lightning, Sidious' comes in a thin streak (as it usually does) and Vitiate's comes in a massive torrent (as it usually does) in a meeting of accuracy vs firepower. In the end of it, either Vitiate or Sidious lays dead. If Sidious is the dead one, then great, Vitiate just won. But if Sidious is the victor, he isn't for very long. Vitiate's spirit returns to the field and attacks the now severely wounded and weakened Sidious, either killing him or taking Sidious' body as his new vessel.


http://replygif.net/i/747.gif

Originally posted by darthbane77
To be fair, I'm not actually trying to convince anybody that I'm correct. the Sole purpose is to show that, no matter how cancerous you might think the argument is, that I CAN form a cohesive argument. That I'm not actually a terrible debater and I generally do know what I'm talking about.

Oh! Impressive~

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Oh! Impressive~ Not sure if that's sarcasm.......

Trump could use that for his wall.

@darthbane77

What were you expecting? A meaningful feedback from Sheevites?

I shall be the first to appreciate your effort.

Nice effort.
I disagree with nearly everything, tho.

This post is so 2013 smh.

at least you tried; not too many make actual arguments on here anymore.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@darthbane77

What were you expecting? A meaningful feedback from Sheevites?

I shall be the first to appreciate your effort. Nah, I knew the Sheevites would bite back pretty hard.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Nice effort.
I disagree with nearly everything, tho.

Everyone here has their effort appreciated -- it's their arguments that should be bashed because of how dumb they are.

Originally posted by Kurk
at least you tried; not too many make actual arguments on here anymore. Yeah, I've noticed. Figured I'd try breaking the monotony.

This guy is clueless.

Originally posted by darthbane77
To be fair, I'm not actually trying to convince anybody that I'm correct. the Sole purpose is to show that, no matter how cancerous you might think the argument is, that I CAN form a cohesive argument. That I'm not actually a terrible debater and I generally do know what I'm talking about.
So you're trying to convince people you can debate... and you do this by first making a topic that you know is gonna make everyone think you're stupid?

Originally posted by Azronger
This guy is clueless.

Not bad all things considered.

Try to ignore all the hate that's gonna come you way, is the advice I'd give.

Originally posted by darthbane77
BTW, now interested at a debate?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So you're trying to convince people you can debate... and you do this by first making a topic that you know is gonna make everyone think you're stupid?
And why is that? Is it stupid to assume that Vitiate had the strength to contend with Palpatine (and even beat him) or was more proficient than Palpatine in the use of several Sith powers?

S_W_LeGenD is the only person who thinks this argument is good, that should tell you all you need to know OP.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And why is that? Is it stupid to assume that Vitiate had the strength to contend with Palpatine (and even beat him) or was more proficient than Palpatine in the use of several Sith powers?
That's not the point.
The point is that DB77 created this thread to show that he can debate, after making another thread full of ridiculous, baseless claims.

Oh, a good argument shall take that (metaphoric) rend and (philosophical/circumstantial) unbalance into consideration and treat them as quantifiable demonstrations of strength of Darth Plagueis and Palpatine. The rest is child's play in comparison and largely irrelevant. Million dollar question is do mere mortals like Mace Windu, Luke Skywalker, Yoda, Vitiate, Mother Talzin, Revan and Darth Vader stand a chance against these two ?

Yes, I am the one who sees an argument in the opening post of this thread from darthbane77 (good or bad is not my point) and also get the difference between trolling and an argument. And my judgement tells a lot about the quality of the argument in question here (and my IQ level) because critics offered such fantastic counterarguments in response that I couldn't even anticipate in my wildest dreams.

Do this forum a favor, Beni ..... QUIT and go back to high school (a better one this time).

Like I said, the point was never to convince anybody. The point was to make a cohesive argument for something I knew none of you would agree with, so that I could prove that even though the argument might be considered cancerous, that it's still an argument that would make sense. To me, a good sign of a good debater is the ability to be able to argue for something that you know is false. To be able to argue for both sides well is the ultimate sign of a good debater.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Not bad all things considered.

Try to ignore all the hate that's gonna come you way, is the advice I'd give. Oh I will. It's not like I have a reputation of any worth to worry about here anyway.

Originally posted by Azronger
This guy is clueless. I mean, not really. You're the one that worships Sheev's wrinkly dick skins, so I knew you weren't going to appreciate this thread in any capacity.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
That's not the point.
The point is that DB77 created this thread to show that he can debate, after making another thread full of ridiculous, baseless claims.
I am focused on what he stated on this thread. I haven't checked the other yet.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I mean, not really. You're the one that worships Sheev's wrinkly dick skins, so I knew you weren't going to appreciate this thread in any capacity.

You're just proving my point even more with every post you make. You are clueless. Sheev doesn't have a dick, in case you didn't know:

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104794/5613494-scan+38a.jpg

And the reason I don't appreciate it because you make hilarious logical stunts and have tons of misinformation - about both characters - in your argument. I can appreciate a pro-Vitiate argument - any argument for that matter - if done properly, and yours was a miserable failure.

Originally posted by Azronger
You're just proving my point even more with every post you make. You are clueless. Sheev doesn't have a dick, in case you didn't know:

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104794/5613494-scan+38a.jpg

And the reason I don't appreciate it because you make hilarious logical stunts and have tons of misinformation - about both characters - in your argument. I can appreciate a pro-Vitiate argument - any argument for that matter - if done properly, and yours was a miserable failure. I don't see how, considering everything I have in here is something I've observed in SWTOR or have read in a novel. Everything in here has a source for it, most of which can be found in Vitiate's RT. Never once have I seen you display any kind of respect towards any anti-Sidious argument, even ones I feel are better than any that I've ever made. So no, you're lying through your teeth and it's plain to see. Nothing in this thread is illogical, and everything is supported.

D77, would you mind if I write a rebuttal?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
D77, would you mind if I write a rebuttal? Knock yourself out.

Originally posted by darthbane77
To me, a good sign of a good debater is the ability to be able to argue for something that you know is false.

No, that's a lawyer.

Originally posted by MythLord
No, that's a lawyer. What is a lawyer if not a debater that gets paid?

Nah, as DB77 said, that is the mark of a good debater.


Taking less than and making it more than it really is, with superior rhetoric and articulating skills is the greatest judge of debating skill.

You lost me {and the argument} quite literally in the second paragraph. Vitiate's quotes don't contradict the Emperor's.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You lost me {and the argument} quite literally in the second paragraph. Vitiate's quotes don't contradict the Emperor's. I would disagree, both have quotes establishing themselves as the most powerful Sith Lord. And when I made this originally, I was unaware that the TOR Encyclopedia was an in-universe source. Regardless, the quotes still hold as evidence that Vitiate is comparable to Sidious when backed up by Vitiate's feats. Feats which, quite honestly, are easily in the same league as any of Sidious'.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Nah, as DB77 said, that is the mark of a good debater.


Taking less than and making it more than it really is, with superior rhetoric and articulating skills is the greatest judge of debating skill.

Originally posted by darthbane77
What is a lawyer if not a debater that gets paid?

A really convincing liar, honestly. Are you a liar? Have you no shame?

Originally posted by MythLord
A really convincing liar, honestly. Are you a liar? Have you no shame? I don't think I'm a liar, most of the time.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I don't see how, considering everything I have in here is something I've observed in SWTOR or have read in a novel.

Not true. I could go through every example but honestly I can't be bothered..



No, there is no quote in existence proving Vitiate made DK a nexus or created lightning storms in the sky with his mere presence, nor is there a quote saying he has the power of the 8000 Sith he sacrificed on Nathema.



This very sentence is illogical, lmao. You're assuming that because I haven't openly expressed my feelings to toward something, I don't have those feelings.

And you should probably start acknowledging the fact that the world doesn't revolve around you. Just because you haven't seen me do something, doesn't mean I haven't. And if basically everybody here is saying your post is cancer, then you should probably realize that it isn't that well made, instead of acting like "nothing in this thread is illogical," and pretending it's a fact. Again, the world doesn't revolve around you.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I would disagree,

Sure.
But you'd be wrong, which is what's important here.

Originally posted by darthbane77
both have quotes establishing themselves as the most powerful Sith Lord.

Major spoilers follow, tread lightly:

Thousands of years separate Vitiate from Sidious. So just as 1880s Britain was the most powerful nation on Earth and yet now 2017 America is, these ideas are not mutually exclusive due to the passage of time.

Originally posted by darthbane77
And when I made this originally, I was unaware that the TOR Encyclopedia was an in-universe source.

Your struggles with in-universe chronology are noted.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Regardless, the quotes still hold as evidence that Vitiate is comparable to Sidious when backed up by Vitiate's feats. Feats which, quite honestly, are easily in the same league as any of Sidious'.

You're free to argue feats all you like. You'd lose that one, too, of course - but the problem is now you're moving the goalpost.

Originally posted by Azronger
Not true. I could go through every example but honestly I can't be bothered..



No, there is no quote in existence proving Vitiate made DK a nexus or created lightning storms in the sky with his mere presence, nor is there a quote saying he has the power of the 8000 Sith he sacrificed on Nathema.



This very sentence is illogical, lmao. You're assuming that because I haven't openly expressed my feelings to toward something, I don't have those feelings.

And you should probably start acknowledging the fact that the world doesn't revolve around you. Just because you haven't seen me do something, doesn't mean I haven't. And if basically everybody here is saying your post is cancer, then you should probably realize that it isn't that well made, instead of acting like "nothing in this thread is illogical," and pretending it's a fact. Again, the world doesn't revolve around you. I never claimed that the world revolves around me, nor do I act like it. The reason everybody here thinks my thread is cancer isn't because it is, but because the TOR era is generally looked down upon on this forum, underrated and obviously not looked on favorably. Anyone with a brain can see that. But the only real reason this thread isn't much liked, is because of bias on the rest of your parts.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sure.
But you'd be wrong, which is what's important here.



Major spoilers follow, tread lightly:

Thousands of years separate Vitiate from Sidious. So just as 1880s Britain was the most powerful nation on Earth and yet now 2017 America is, these ideas are not mutually exclusive due to the passage of time.



Your struggles with in-universe chronology are noted.



You're free to argue feats all you like. You'd lose that one, too, of course - but the problem is now you're moving the goalpost. I don't see how I would lose anything if I was actually attempting to convince anybody. I'm not actually making a real attempt at convincing anybody at the moment.

It shows.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I don't see how I would lose anything if I was actually attempting to convince anybody. I'm not actually making a real attempt at convincing anybody at the moment.

But you are trying to convince people - you said in your OP you wanted to prove you're not an idiot. That goal's success or failure hinges on your ability to craft a good argument. Your argument isn't good; it stumbles and falls face flat in its very first paragraph.

Now I'm not saying you're an idiot, I'm just saying (on this topic) you're wrong and you'll never be right.

In any event, the hate doesn't bother me. I didn't have a positive reputation here in the first place, so I had nothing to ruin. Much like Tonde's Skotia>Vader thread. Hell, he's the one that told me I should share this, lol. I didn't expect this thread to be well received, nor did I expect anybody to agree either, I didn't expect to break anybody's notions or biases. I just wanted to irritate you people, which I've obviously succeeded in doing.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I don't see how I would lose anything if I was actually attempting to convince anybody. I'm not actually making a real attempt at convincing anybody at the moment.
Wait...
Are you arguing that you would beat Tempest in a debate?

BTW, good to see you back, God.

Then:



Now:



Of course you did.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/11a8FLrVeoLnna/giphy-downsized.gif

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Then:



Now:



Of course you did.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/11a8FLrVeoLnna/giphy-downsized.gif It's a mix of both. I wanted to prove that I could form a cohesive argument, which I believe I did, regardless of whether it was agreed with. As the replies went down hill, I decided to have some fun with it. So both are true.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Wait...
Are you arguing that you would beat Tempest in a debate?

BTW, good to see you back, God. Not claiming I could beat him specifically, more like claiming that I could beat some people here and give others a good debate.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Not claiming I could beat him specifically, more like claiming that I could beat some people here and give others a good debate.
And? Just about everyone can beat other guys here in debates.

I wouldn't go that far.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
And? Just about everyone can beat other guys here in debates. I know, but most of you guys seem to see each other as peers. Based on what I've seen, I'm generally looked down on.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I know, but most of you guys seem to see each other as peers. Based on what I've seen, I'm generally looked down on.
The "you" seems to include me, which isn't the case.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
The "you" seems to include me, which isn't the case. Then maybe we're in the same boat, I dunno.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Then maybe we're in the same boat, I dunno.
lol
Still - wanna debate something?

In any case, I doubt your insecure ranting/complaining here's particularly raising anyone's opinion of you. It's obvious people who have been a part of a community for years are generally going to be more respected than the new guys, try not to lose your head over it.

Oh, and yes, you're also in dire need of an hero Urs.

Yoda stomps valk+revan while taking meds for his arthiritis

Originally posted by Ursumeles
lol
Still - wanna debate something? What did you have in mind?

Originally posted by MythLord
No, that's a lawyer.

lol

Originally posted by NewGuy01

Oh, and yes, you're also in dire need of an hero Urs.

Not sure how to tell you this but this was probably even worse than the other one.

I guess that's how.

EDIT: Also, Vitiate taking over Palpatine's body? Hilarious.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Not sure how to tell you this but this was probably even worse than the other one.

I guess that's how.

EDIT: Also, Vitiate taking over Palpatine's body? Hilarious. I don't see how this one was worse.

Originally posted by darthbane77
What did you have in mind?
Malgus vs Dooku?
Arcann vs Vader/Anakin?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Malgus vs Dooku?
Arcann vs Vader/Anakin? Which side would you wanna take? My opinions on Arcann vs Vader might be the same as yours.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Which side would you wanna take? My opinions on Arcann vs Vader might be the same as yours.
The PT/OT one.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
The PT/OT one. Ah, then I don't think we're of the same mind then. I would probably be up for doing either debate.

You have Arcann above Vader? Interesting.
Anyway, rest per PM?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
You have Arcann above Vader? Interesting.
Anyway, rest per PM? Yeah, I have Arcann>Vader, it's a recent placement though. We can do the rest in PM yeah, I might not reply again tonight though. I have homework I still need to do and classes starting at 7am, it's already 3am here.

@darthbane77

Among all the Sheevites I had the opportunity to interact with in this forum, SunRazer is a standout. If you are looking forward to having a meaningful conversation with a Sheevite on this topic, he is the guy to approach.

The_Tempest is also good but moody. No harm in having a conversation with him, if he is willing.

I wouldn't consider DarthAnt66 a Sheevite but he is DAMN GOOD and he is willing to address your argument. My advice is to consider it.

The rest have descended to trolling lately; don't expect much from them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@darthbane77

Among all the Sheevites I had the opportunity to interact with in this forum, SunRazer is a standout. If you are looking forward to having a meaningful conversation with a Sheevite on this topic, he is the guy to approach.

The_Tempest is also good but moody. No harm in having a conversation with him, if he is willing.

I wouldn't consider DarthAnt66 a Sheevite but he is DAMN GOOD and he is willing to address your argument. My advice is to consider it.

The rest have descended to trolling lately; don't expect much from them. I'd agree that those three are probably the most reasonable of the bunch yeah.

Herrr, they disagree wit meh! Those trollz!

Also, @DB77 your backpedalling is incredible.

How am I backpedaling? I haven't even said anything to you recently.

Not to me, ya numpty. Generally. You started this entire thread off by saying: "Oh, I wanna prove I can form a coherent and good case". You didn't, and now that people say that you're like "well, I just wanted to annoy you!".
Then when getting called out on that backpedaling, you say it was your plan for it to be a mix of both, despite the two things being completely contradictory.

I explained myself actually. I realized early in the comments that people were gonna lay the hate on anyway, so I decided to stoke the fire and try to argue. Which I did, and seeing as how you're noticeably irritated, I succeeded.

And I explained why that explanation is bunk, tbh.

If your argument was actually a good one, there'd be no hate. A perfect example of this would be someone like ILS or Azronger. I disagree with the both of them -- particularly Az -- on quite a few topics. But their arguments are coherent, convincing and extremely well articulated(for the most part).
I give credit where credit is due.

The only credit you can recieve from this is effort, but the actual argument itself makes no sense. And right now, you say your goals are to both irritate, but also prove you're a good debater. The two things are quite contradictory to a lot of people since they don't get annoyed by a well-crafted case.

Originally posted by MythLord
If your argument was actually a good one, there'd be no hate. A perfect example of this would be someone like ILS or Azronger. I disagree with the both of them -- particularly Az -- on quite a few topics. But their arguments are coherent, convincing and extremely well articulated(for the most part).
I give credit where credit is due.



Awesome sig, btw.

Danke.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I explained myself actually. I realized early in the comments that people were gonna lay the hate on anyway, so I decided to stoke the fire and try to argue. Which I did, and seeing as how you're noticeably irritated, I succeeded. Reported.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Not bad all things considered.

Try to ignore all the hate that's gonna come you way, is the advice I'd give.

Originally posted by MythLord
And I explained why that explanation is bunk, tbh.

If your argument was actually a good one, there'd be no hate. A perfect example of this would be someone like ILS or Azronger. I disagree with the both of them -- particularly Az -- on quite a few topics. But their arguments are coherent, convincing and extremely well articulated(for the most part).
I give credit where credit is due.

The only credit you can recieve from this is effort, but the actual argument itself makes no sense. And right now, you say your goals are to both irritate, but also prove you're a good debater. The two things are quite contradictory to a lot of people since they don't get annoyed by a well-crafted case. You can believe what you want, that doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do this forum a favor, Beni ..... QUIT and go back to high school (a better one this time).

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Do this forum a favor, Beni ..... QUIT and go back to high school (a better one this time).
Lol.
They won't take him.

They think he's the school shooter.