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This isn't who could beat him, but who could move fast enough / strike hard enough in a similar situation to his fight vs Grievous.

Clone Wars:

Yoda, Sidious.

Possibly Mace.

On a good day possibly Anakin.

Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Mace and late TCW/RotS Anakin in canon.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Mace and late TCW/RotS Anakin in canon.

Dooku may tire out before he can work around Kenobi's guard.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Dooku may tire out before he can work around Kenobi's guard.

Nah. Dooku is capable to work around Kenobi, yeah.

Dooku, Yoda, Mace, Sidious

Dooku (bc makashi is about breaking defenses by definition), knightfall/zonakin, superamped mace, yoda/sheev, plagueis maybe, grandmaster luke, etc

Dooku could probably manage it, but not by powering through like Grievous.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Clone Wars:

Yoda, Sidious.

Possibly Mace.

On a good day possibly Anakin.
Why would mace do better vs kenobi's defenses than anakin?

luke/yoda/sidious obviously, Anakin as of rots Caedus, possibly Plagueis. What has mace done to suggest he can break kenobi's guard purely by virtue of strength or speed?

Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Anakin, Luke, Plagueis, Tenebrous, Venamis

Luke, Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Anakin, Grievous, Windu, Jacen, Krayt, Taalon.

Maul.

Kek.

Kas'im, Bane.

Arcann, Outlander, Bane should be able to.

Tenebrous

Vos, kek.

maybe peak Maul; like when how he was performing against Sheev.

I'd throw a peak Malgus into the mix, too.

Naaaahhh.
Possibly Cade tho.

Yeah.

By Deceived, Malgus had some insane strength/speed showings and his physical capabilities only increased by a pretty good margin by the end of the book and should have only gotten better as time passed.

Insane speed showings?

Neither Cade nor Malgus could be cabdidates imo.

By extinsion, yes.

Leneer exhibited top-notch speed when she "moved faster than any machine" and perceiving time within a nanosecond. Malgus seemed perfectly within her range speed, tbh.

Peak Malgus, Dooku, Yoda, Sidious, Anakin, Maul, Mace, Kun, maybe peak Ulic, Luke, 'Lander, Plagueis, Tenebrous, prime Revan.

You should kys for that list Petrus.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
You should kys for that list Petrus.

Kek, def no. There's certainly no outrageous pick on my list.

Revan.

Originally posted by Petrus
Kek, def no. There's certainly no outrageous pick on my list.

Originally posted by Petrus
prime Revan.

Not outrageous at all, considering prime Revan is a top 10 Sith all-time.

And Kenobi is a Top 10 Jedi

Originally posted by Ursumeles
And Kenobi is a Top 10 Jedi

And Revan >> Kenobi, overall. You might disagree that he can break his defenses, but if you actually think it's an outrageous thought, well... Kys.

Originally posted by Petrus
Kek, def no. There's certainly no outrageous pick on my list.

Nah, only half of it is f-ucking cancer.

Originally posted by Petrus
And Revan >> Kenobi, overall. You might disagree that he can break his defenses, but if you actually think it's an outrageous thought, well... Kys.
So the Top 10 Sith point is moot
Also, Revan >> Kenobi overall, but Kenobi > Revan in 'sabers.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
So the Top 10 Sith point is moot
Also, Revan >> Kenobi overall, but Kenobi > Revan in 'sabers.

The point was that the thought of a top 10 Sith of all time having the possibility of breaking through Kenobi's defenses shouldn't be outrageous, even if you don't agree.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Nah, only half of it is f-ucking cancer.

Please, enlighten me with the ones you'd remove, little ****.

Originally posted by Petrus
, little ****. Stop insulting

Petrus, this is a safe space.

That's just how zoltan and I talk to each other.

He said "kys".
You called him "little ****".
What's worse?

Originally posted by Petrus
Please, enlighten me with the ones you'd remove, little ****.

Malgus, Dooku, Maul, Kun, Ulic, Shitlander, Revan, (standard Mace).

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Malgus,

Disagreed, but fair enough.




What?



Wouldn't you agree that Maul and Kenobi are roughly on the same level, saberwise...?



Seriously?



Disagreed, but fair enough.



Fair enough, tho it's not good enough to say kys.



Prime Revan shits on Kenobi all-out. Based on his sheer superiority in the Force and his power, he'd be able to break through Kenobi's defenses.





Why?

As I see the OP asks who can brute force their way past Kenobi's defense. Those that I listed are not better enough for that, or straight up not better at all than Kenobi so they can't do that.

Kys @guys that mentioned Malgus but not Vader.

I'm not sure if Vader could tbh. Obi-Wan may just be too big of a psychological hurdle for him.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
As I see the OP asks who can brute force their way past Kenobi's defense. Those that I listed are not better enough for that, or straight up not better at all than Kenobi so they can't do that.

In this interpretation of the thread I can more easily see why you'd think some characters in my list would lose.

However, Dooku, Kun and Mace are undoubtedly above him in the sabers department, and Maul is roughly his equal. So, at least those 4 would be able to do what the OP asks.

Originally posted by Petrus
Kun undoubtedly above him in the sabers department
Eh...

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Eh...

He is. Not by much, tho.

Originally posted by Petrus
In this interpretation of the thread I can more easily see why you'd think some characters in my list would lose.

However, Dooku, Kun and Mace are undoubtedly above him in the sabers department, and Maul is roughly his equal. So, at least those 4 would be able to do what the OP asks.

Maul and Dooku already failed at that lmao.

Based on what is Kun "undoubtely" above Kenobi?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Maul and Dooku already failed at that lmao.

Wut?

Kenobi never manages to defeat Dooku, whereas Dooku has defeat him more than once, lmao.

And Maul is roughly on par with Kenobi. So how exactly did they fail?

Dooku failed to break RotS Kenobi's defense, fact. Maul failed to break even TCW Kenobi's defense without Dun Moch, fact. Get your head out of your ass phag.

Dooku fought Kenobi for a total of 10 seconds in RotS, before he easily defeated him while knocking Anakin on his ass.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Dooku failed to break RotS Kenobi's defense, fact.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4334680-dooku+kicks+anakin+and+chokes+kenobi.gif

Literally breaks RotS Kenobi's defense and proceeds to TK him.



http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111245625/5537310-maul+kicks+kenobi+three+times.gif

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4817778-maul+beats+kenobi+2.gif




And Maul obviously never faced RotS Kenobi, but based on his Rebels showings, he'd still be capable of doing it.

You do realize every gif you posted was Kenobi attacking, right? Gillard has already stated that Kenobi's own aggression is his weakness.

This thread is on Kenobi's defensive capabilities.

Originally posted by Petrus
Dooku, Kun and Mace are undoubtedly above him in the sabers department
rofl

Originally posted by Petrus
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4334680-dooku+kicks+anakin+and+chokes+kenobi.gif

Literally breaks RotS Kenobi's defense and proceeds to TK him.



http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111245625/5537310-maul+kicks+kenobi+three+times.gif

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4817778-maul+beats+kenobi+2.gif




And Maul obviously never faced RotS Kenobi, but based on his Rebels showings, he'd still be capable of doing it.

Are you illiterate? This thread is about breaking Kenobi's defense LIKE GRIEVOUS aka WITH A LIGHTSABER. NOT WITH THE FORCE AND NOT WITH KICKS. AND NOT WITH DUN MOCH.

Read it thoroughly this time phag.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do realize every gif you posted was Kenobi attacking, right? Gillard has already stated that Kenobi's own aggression is his weakness.

This thread is on Kenobi's defensive capabilities.

Well, he was attacking, but Dooku broke off his attack with his lightsaber, not the Force. I assume that anyone who's good enough to win a lightsaber duel against him is good enough to break his defenses.

Are you asking which duelist beats Kenobi if he's entirely on the defensive and never/almost never attempts to attack? That's not even plausible or realistic in a SW duel. At least not if the opponent isn't stupid or GG, seeing GG's unorthodox fighting style.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
rofl

You think Kenobi would defeat those guys in a duel? Lmao.

I'd maybe give you Kun, but Mace and Dooku? Nah.

Given mace and Dooku are on par, what makes y'all think the former can break through Kenobi ?

WTF is malgus being mentioned here. Malgus has nothing putting him above kenobi speed wise(or putting him on par for that matter) and strength wise even a physically stronger anh vader couldn't break the guard of a physically out of shape ben kenobi.

What has mace done suggesting he's anywhere close to srong enough or fast enough to break kenobi's guard purely through strength or speed? Heck, whether he's stronger at all is debatable in itself.

Also maul? Given that he and his brother simulatneously couldn't do it, that maul couldn't do it individually despite kenobi being physically wrecked beforehand, why would maul suddenly be able to overwhelm via strength or speed a superior rots kenobi.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Why would mace do better vs kenobi's defenses than anakin?

Not saying he can although I guess I implied it.

I remember there being a quote that Vaapad could break the defenses of a Soresu master although it was vague.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
WTF is malgus being mentioned here. Malgus has nothing putting him above kenobi speed wise(or putting him on par for that matter) and strength wise even a physically stronger anh vader couldn't break the guard of a physically out of shape ben kenobi.

What has mace done suggesting he's anywhere close to srong enough or fast enough to break kenobi's guard purely through strength or speed? Heck, whether he's stronger at all is debatable in itself.

Also maul? Given that he and his brother simulatneously couldn't do it, that maul couldn't do it individually despite kenobi being physically wrecked beforehand, why would maul suddenly be able to overwhelm via strength or speed a superior rots kenobi.

To be fair ANH Vader was being extremely cautious.

The Malgus mention reminds me of when Antoine's collaboration with Jensaaurai was ruined by the Malgus bias.

Idk.

Maul and Savage were arguably hindered by the narrow hallway and Kenobi had a second blade. But yeah I don't see SOD Maul powering through ROTS Kenobi in sabers.

Originally posted by Petrus
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4334680-dooku+kicks+anakin+and+chokes+kenobi.gif

Literally breaks RotS Kenobi's defense and proceeds to TK him.



http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111245625/5537310-maul+kicks+kenobi+three+times.gif

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/4817778-maul+beats+kenobi+2.gif




And Maul obviously never faced RotS Kenobi, but based on his Rebels showings, he'd still be capable of doing it.

First off none of what you've shown is remotely close to what grevious did.

Second off, way to take things out of context. Maul landing multiple kicks on kenobi was an isolated moment in a fight kenobi was winning despite having been kod twice and tortured extensively beforehand. Despite kenobi being an absolute wreck, when enraged, right before that second gif you posted, kenobi was able to steadily drive maul back with his speed/strength what the op is discussing.
You can say maul was rusty here(not that should have anything to do with his ability to move faster than kenobi can react or hit stronger than kenobi can withstand.), but on florrum he was on the losing end of their saber bout in spite of his brother's help and kenobi using a secondary form.

While suggesting either could do what grevious did to each other did is asinine, the case for kenobi being able to do it looking at how he fared as a duelist vs maul in tcw is much better

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
First off none of what you've shown is remotely close to what grevious did.

Second off, way to take things out of context. Maul landing multiple kicks on kenobi was an isolated moment in a fight kenobi was winning

"We're outmatched"
- Kenobi to Ventress

Originally posted by Kurk
"We're outmatched"
- Kenobi to Ventress

https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=2m8s

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
https://youtu.be/DlJiphrbLyg?t=2m8s
Which yet again, isn't even close to grevious moving too fast for kenobi to react
Second off, yes kenobi was outmatched, after in addition to getting physically wrecked and mentally thrown off beforehand, maul using dun moch on a kenobi who already had no buisness fighting. Prior to that he was losing

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Which yet again, isn't even close to grevious moving too fast for kenobi to react
Second off, yes kenobi was outmatched, after in addition to getting physically wrecked and mentally thrown off beforehand, maul using dun moch on a kenobi who already had no buisness fighting. Prior to that he was losing

Maul has footed the upper hand on Grievous though.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Maul has footed the upper hand on Grievous though.
Not really. Their first fight was inconclusive with grevious landing a kick on maul. The second fight was interrupted, an interruption maul took advantage off to bfr grevious with a force blast while he was distracted. There was never an indication of a clear superior. IMO they're equals in a fight with grevious being more skilled and physically superior, but maul having use of the force. Regardless if we're using kenobi as the point of comparison, grevious's performances(purely in a dueling sense, not counting force use) vs tcw kenobi have been significantly better than maul's(maul on the losing end, grievous on the winning end) and while grevious has fought kenobi with the unfavorable context of a style disadvantage(if we go by legends), maul has fought kenobi in generally favorable circumstances. Furhermore grevious has beaten season 7 kenobi, someone who would be superior, if marginally as a duelist to season4/5 grevious. More relevant to the discussion here, physically grevious outclasses maul which yet again can be backedup by comparing their performances to kenobi and is faster.
Off course in an overall fight, maul's use fo the force copensate for this but as per whats being discussed here, maul cannot hope to replicate grevious's overloading of rots kenobi's defenses

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Not really. Their first fight was inconclusive with grevious landing a kick on maul. The second fight was interrupted, an interruption maul took advantage off to bfr grevious with a force blast while he was distracted. There was never an indication of a clear superior. IMO they're equals in a fight with grevious being more skilled and physically superior, but maul having use of the force. Regardless if we're using kenobi as the point of comparison, grevious's performances(purely in a dueling sense, not counting force use) vs tcw kenobi have been significantly better than maul's(maul on the losing end, grievous on the winning end) and while grevious has fought kenobi with the unfavorable context of a style disadvantage(if we go by legends), maul has fought kenobi in generally favorable circumstances. Furhermore grevious has beaten season 7 kenobi, someone who would be superior, if marginally as a duelist to season4/5 grevious. More relevant to the discussion here, physically grevious outclasses maul which yet again can be backedup by comparing their performances to kenobi and is faster.
Off course in an overall fight, maul's use fo the force copensate for this but as per whats being discussed here, maul cannot hope to replicate grevious's overloading of rots kenobi's defenses

While Maul obviously isn't overloading ROTS Kenobi's defenses I still don't understand Kenobi's style advantage. Grievous is trained in all lightsaber Forms. Plus Soresu doesn't have an advantage to any Form. It's advantage depends on the other combatant and the user of the Form.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
While Maul obviously isn't overloading ROTS Kenobi's defenses I still don't understand Kenobi's style advantage. Grievous is trained in all lightsaber Forms. Plus Soresu doesn't have an advantage to any Form. It's advantage depends on the other combatant and the user of the Form. The advantage iirc is because soresu's simplicity gives nothing for grevious's computers to adapt to, regardless per windu, kenobi's use of soresu s a better matchup for grveious than his own use of vapaad despite windu being more skilled and per mace made him the best matchup for grevious even though there were three superior duelists in the order at the time, each of whom mastered different forms

Regardless its not really needed to argue for grevious vs maul dueling wise as grevious as a duelist stalemated/beat tcw kenobi each time by virue of the blade, neither of which maul has replicated despite having context favoring him in both duels(though there was context against him in the first of their bouts) and fighting inferior versions of kenobi

Caedus

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
WTF is malgus being mentioned here. Malgus has nothing putting him above kenobi speed wise(or putting him on par for that matter)
Really?

Satele Shan is officially stated to be unbelievably fast but Darth Malgus had no trouble keeping-up with her moves.

Look at this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/4433903-6694146671-43846.gif

You see that Lightsaber in slow motion? This is the level of speed Satele Shan could achieve on average. Not surprisingly, she blitzed any foe in her path with the exception of Darth Malgus. Watch the entire video and you will see how fast those Sith Warriors could swing a Lightsaber.

Ayn Leener has one of the greatest speed feats in the mythos but Darth Malgus was able to keep-up with her moves during the duel. Check the "speed" section in this blog: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/aryn-leener-respect-thread/102062/

You seem ill-informed about TOR related stuff.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
and strength wise even a physically stronger anh vader couldn't break the guard of a physically out of shape ben kenobi.
Darth Vader was psychological hindered (even Palpatine noticed this).

Darth Malgus would not have such psychological hindrances. His technique is also noted to be flawless.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

His technique is also noted to be flawless.

Such bold claims are to be taken with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Such bold claims are to be taken with a grain of salt.
so was felucia marek's
edit: quoted wrong user

Leneer perceiving time within nanoseconds and reaction faster than any machine could, is just as good, if not flat out better, than anything Kenobi has in the speed department.

Quite, leaving Dooku baffled by his speed is not miles ahead of that at all.

Wasn't that scene pretty much from Jace's POV? Because the whole thing was in slow motion even before Satele arrived, it could just be there to be all cool looking. That scene has got to be one of the dumbest things ever though, who drags a guy in the middle of a battle to give him an elaborate death?? Like just kill him already, there's no need to drag it out.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Quite, leaving Dooku baffled by his speed is not miles ahead of that at all.
dooku did move faster than him later on though(which was a factor in ragdolling him)

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Wasn't that scene pretty much from Jace's POV? Because the whole thing was in slow motion even before Satele arrived, it could just be there to be all cool looking. That scene has got to be one of the dumbest things ever though, who drags a guy in the middle of a battle to give him an elaborate death?? Like just kill him already, there's no need to drag it out.

It's obviously not from Jace's POV since it's from behind him. Nevertheless, that's just cinematic editing for dramatic effect. By the time Satele is moving, it goes back to normal speed.

Not to mention that later on, there's more slow-mo scenes and Satele is also moving in slow motion in those scenes. She's not exempt from that at all. It's just editing for dramatic effect.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It's obviously not from Jace's POV since it's from behind him. Nevertheless, that's just cinematic editing for dramatic effect. By the time Satele is moving, it goes back to normal speed.

Not to mention that later on, there's more slow-mo scenes and Satele is also moving in slow motion in those scenes. She's not exempt from that at all. It's just editing for dramatic effect.

Eh fair enough then, I figured.

Still tho...that unnecessary death setup! I could almost forgive it, if they didn't show him being dragged.

It's like what...they had to get the perfect spot for his execution?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh fair enough then, I figured.

Still tho...that unnecessary death setup! I could almost forgive it, if they didn't show him being dragged.

It's like what...they had to get the perfect spot for his execution?
there's a reason the sith keep losing

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Quite, leaving Dooku baffled by his speed is not miles ahead of that at all.

no?

Anyone Maul level and above can break his defense.

The op's asking who can break or overload kenobi's defenses by virtue of strength or speed aka, like grevious did.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
no? Yes? No one cares about those shitty feats when magnaguards have near light speed reflexes and Ezra Bridger can move faster than thought.

Also, there's sources stating that Form III Soresu masters(Obi being the master) are trained to block lightspeed-fast projectiles.

Everyone and their grandmom's were perceiving time in nanoseconds in the RotS novel.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes? No one cares about those shitty feats when magnaguards have near light speed reflexes and Ezra Bridger can move faster than thought.

The speed of thought is probably not even faster than sound depending on your scale - it's nowhere near nanosecond reaction time, lmao. Near relativistic reflexes isn't as good as seeing nanoseconds as other basically see seconds either.

Plus, depending on how literal we take the reacting faster any machine could - we're looking at a feat that supersedes even nanoseconds, and can only be surpassed through scaling.

Originally posted by MythLord
Also, there's sources stating that Form III Soresu masters(Obi being the master) are trained to block lightspeed-fast projectiles.

Everyone and their grandmom's were perceiving time in nanoseconds in the RotS novel. Tbfh, I'm not impressed by his hyberbolic gumpf in the slightest. Malgus managed to keep up with her just fine.

Light-speed anything in SW is such obvious bs that it isn't even worth the time to consider it.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
The speed of thought is probably not even faster than sound depending on your scale - it's nowhere near nanosecond reaction time, lmao. Near relativistic reflexes isn't as good as seeing nanoseconds as other basically see seconds either.

Plus, depending on how literal we take the reacting faster any machine could - we're looking at a feat that supersedes even nanoseconds, and can only be surpassed through scaling. Uhuh, the point is that authors throw out all kinds of ultra-fast quantifiers for even the lowliest of fodder. Fisto was able to obliterate said magnaguards without them so much as them connecting with his blade, Ezra Bridger hadn't even undergone training when he pulled off that feat. And given the authors are just pulling this shit out of their asses it ceases to have any real value.

Speed feats relative to an actual opponent are far more credible, in which respect Leneer doesn't compare.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Light-speed anything in SW is such obvious bs that it isn't even worth the time to consider it.
exceot if it can be used to boost tor characters

Originally posted by MythLord
Also, there's sources stating that Form III Soresu masters(Obi being the master) are trained to block lightspeed-fast projectiles.

Everyone and their grandmom's were perceiving time in nanoseconds in the RotS novel.

This one?




Of course, there's also something to be said for that, as the Jedi Path states similar.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Light-speed anything in SW is such obvious bs that it isn't even worth the time to consider it.

So...hyperspace is BS then?

Although I could say, if you're talking smaller scale, there is one showing that could be considered fair as being lightspeed.

I mean, it's not totally impossible that MagnaGuards are sporting near relativistic reflexes, though given Stover's flare for over-the-top hyperbolic , and at times, melodramatic writing, I wouldn't directly take it at face value.

Even then, it's a good feat for Fisto's and puts him in the range of Obi-Wan's and and Maul's of the world in that department. Much Like Leneer's feat does for her.



Babe, babe, baaaabe.

Stop being so dense about this.

As I said before, the speed of thought isn't that fast at all , and is waaaay below the speed feats shown by the Obi-Wan/Maul's class.



If it was just some throw away "she moved faster than a nanosecond" such and such statement, this viewpoint will have more merit, but it wasn't. She actively does things that a person within the nanoseconds range would be doing,

- Actively viewing the world as if it was in slow-motion, to where a simple sentence seemed like a "life time"

- Reacting faster than the computers on board the freighter she was aboard.

- Seeing sub-lights ships, approaching light speed and about to head into hyperspace, as if they stopped and stretched.

Even if the term nanoseconds wasn't used in this particular instance, I would still argue it's a legit nanosecond feat - the confirmation is just icing on the cake.

The feat is legit, arguing it's not because of a few others instances in the mythos is, how does Az love it put it, an argument from incredulity.




Says the person who wanks Plagueis' subjective, and ignorantly vaunted, "lightning" fast showings, lmao. Stop being a hypocrite. In those case, I don't need to. The speed Leneer showed when interacting with the real world is proof enough.

So you don't take army busting for Mace Windu seriously, but you take nanosecond reaction timing for Aryn Leneer seriously? lmao

If that's all you can come up with, you might as well leave the arguing to Beni.

I'm not really a part of this debate, honey, nor do I intend to be. I'm just noting your double standards.

Then don't chime it with retarded comments. There is nothing really double-standard about anything I said.

So it wasn't actually a combat feat? Why did you even bring it up.

I mean, she was meanuvering around and performing different task requiring physical movement.

It was to show the level of speed she could obtain, tbh.

Didn't look like she was doing much, and I assumed you were referring to what she could pull off in a combat situation.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
I mean, it's not totally impossible that MagnaGuards are sporting near relativistic reflexes, though given Stover's flare for over-the-top hyperbolic , and at times, melodramatic writing, I wouldn't directly take it at face value.

Even then, it's a good feat for Fisto's and puts him in the range of Obi-Wan's and and Maul's of the world in that department. Much Like Leneer's feat does for her.Many authors are, we can either take them all at face value, or none, either way in we reach similar conclusions, a vague notion that these guys are super special quick.

Taken literally though, if Magnaguards can react at near-light speeds then Fisto can do far better, perceiving and reacting to lightspeeds and/or machine like speeds shouldn't be a challenge for him any more than it was for Aryn. Whereas someone like Dooku should have far better reactions, an yet the velocity of Kenobi's movements left him temporarily baffled. When you consider that Leneer could only achieve that level of perception in a trance like state, she's left behind in the dust tbh.

We're not talking about Maul and Kenobi, we're talking about shitty fighters like Leneer, who can what, react faster than a machine? Yeah actually moving faster than thought isn't really far off.

Fair, shame she seemingly couldn't maintain it for long, and never achieved anything similar in combat.

Sorry what? Never ignorantly vaunted anything dear. In fact I am consistently right and correct. In this case I didn't criticise you for using the feat, simply giving it far more weight that it deserves. Especially when she's done nothing remotely Kenobi level in actual combat.

man, you're misreading what I'm saying and seeing ghost, lmao.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
how does Az love it put it

>_<



That's... not what an argument from incredulity is. An argument from incredulity is when a person refuses to accept/deny something simply because they find it hard to believe.

What we're dealing with here is the fallacy of division, meaning that a person argues that because something is true of the whole, it must be true for parts of the whole as well. For example:

'Speed feats with flowery and fancy descriptions are usually hyperbole.'

'Aryn Leneer reacting in nanoseconds is a speed feat that is described fancily.'

'Therefore, Aryn Leneer reacting in nanoseconds is hyperbole and invalid!'

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
man, you're misreading what I'm saying and seeing ghost, lmao. i am seeing ghost, you, as you are deaded from all the debating L's you've taken. :woah:

Originally posted by Beniboybling
i am seeing ghost, you, as you are deaded from all the debating L's you've taken. :woah:

this is so laem, smh.

@AZ: thanks for the info.