Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

As much as I loved the episode, I found Kenobi besting Maul so quickly... shocking.

Was it referencing the old Western gunfights, Maul's arrogance completely consuming him, or had Kenobi truly evolved to a combatant well beyond Vader and instead opted not to defeat him in ANH?

Ben has grown more powerful and adapted his fighting style to suit his age (we see Kenobi shift from one of his prequel stances to a far simpler one) whereas Maul has degraded and still tries to fight like he did in TPM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHqdESArkqU

It seems that Maul was employing the same three strikes he did before banging Jinn's head with his staff.

Maul's stuck in the old ways whereas Kenobi has moved on.

Makes sense, tbh.

Yeah, I'd argue that Kenobi was more focused here than even when he dismantled Grievous. And Soresu is a style that focuses on exploiting openings in close quarters combat. Maul bull rushed him angry and arrogant, left himself open, and was cut him down.

Comparatively, Vader fought a far more cautiously and controlled, and gave Kenobi no openings to exploit.

Maul thought he was fighting a padawan.

Maul was having a heart attack mid-fight; ask Erkan.

He's just grown more skilled and powerful in his exile. Maul was also pretty unstable, clouded by hatred for Kenobi. I find it interesting that Maul didn't learn from his past failings to kill Kenobi though.

Originally posted by MythLord
Maul was having a heart attack mid-fight; ask Erkan.

Ur evil, Wolff. Even I, as a Maul basher, am upset with the outcome. Imagine one of his most staunch supporters - it's a delusion of 18 years, it's longer than many marriages. You can break people with far less.

Nah, Kenobi isn't beyond Vader. They are just both far more skilled and powerful than we realized. This applies to Dooku as well.

I'm not even surprised you'd say something like that.

Quanchi is currently crying in a corner thinking of an excuse for why Maul lost lmao

Originally posted by Azronger
Nah, Kenobi isn't beyond Vader. They are just both far more skilled and powerful than we realized. This applies to Dooku as well. ANH Kenobi > Dooku yeah.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Ur evil, Wolff. Even I, as a Maul basher, am upset with the outcome. Imagine one of his most staunch supporters - it's a delusion of 18 years, it's longer than many marriages. You can break people with far less. lmao

http://i.imgur.com/8rTbjwH.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
ANH Kenobi > Dooku yeah.

No.

I don't think the fight can be accurately used to powerscale for Ben or Maul for several reasons. The biggest thing is the fact that Maul used the same old tricks *exactly*; moves that Kenobi has already seen and is familiar with. Kenobi is a more transformative and progressive fighter than Maul is, and that transformation is seen pretty evidently when Ben shifts from his PT opening stance to a simpler one, as Ares has mentioned. Maul thought he was facing an old, crippled hermit and nothing more, so I don't think he really expected anything impressive skill-wise from Kenobi.

The fight is more symbolic of Maul's stagnation and how he clings to the past, while Kenobi has moved on, both mentally and in a dueling-sense. Ben and Maul's face-off is more exclusive to them and their past and growth (or lack thereof) as characters. Using it to start saying "ya lol maul is fodder even ___ can beat him" or "ben can stomp malgus now" is really just ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more, honestly.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
ben can stomp malgus now

Originally posted by |King Joker|
lol maul is fodder Originally posted by |King Joker|
ben can stomp malgus now
Agree with both.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
"ya lol maul is fodder even Githany can beat him"

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I don't think the fight can be accurately used to powerscale for Ben or Maul for several reasons. The biggest thing is the fact that Maul used the same old tricks *exactly*; moves that Kenobi has already seen and is familiar with. Kenobi is a more transformative and progressive fighter than Maul is, and that transformation is seen pretty evidently when Ben shifts from his PT opening stance to a simpler one, as Ares has mentioned. Maul thought he was facing an old, crippled hermit and nothing more, so I don't think he really expected anything impressive skill-wise from Kenobi.

The fight is more symbolic of Maul's stagnation and how he clings to the past, while Kenobi has moved on, both mentally and in a dueling-sense. Ben and Maul's face-off is more exclusive to them and their past and growth (or lack thereof) as characters. Using it to start saying "ya lol maul is fodder even ___ can beat him" or "ben can stomp malgus now" is really just ridiculous.

Originally posted by Beniboybling


Heretical! Malgus > Dooku according to Sidious.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I don't think the fight can be accurately used to powerscale for Ben or Maul for several reasons. The biggest thing is the fact that Maul used the same old tricks *exactly*; moves that Kenobi has already seen and is familiar with. Kenobi is a more transformative and progressive fighter than Maul is, and that transformation is seen pretty evidently when Ben shifts from his PT opening stance to a simpler one, as Ares has mentioned. Maul thought he was facing an old, crippled hermit and nothing more, so I don't think he really expected anything impressive skill-wise from Kenobi.

The fight is more symbolic of Maul's stagnation and how he clings to the past, while Kenobi has moved on, both mentally and in a dueling-sense. Ben and Maul's face-off is more exclusive to them and their past and growth (or lack thereof) as characters. Using it to start saying "ya lol maul is fodder even ___ can beat him" or "ben can stomp malgus now" is really just ridiculous.

Sorry, but you're wrong.



-Darth Maul: The Story of an Apprentice

Rebels is his prime; Kenobi, Dooku, and Vader are Maul blitzers now.

Pretty sure there's a quote saying blogs are bullshit. Either way, what you brought forth doesn't rebut my point at all. Kenobi knew what was coming to him and capitalized.

Yeah Maul's not in his prime, lmfao.

They confirmed the blogs aren't Canon, btw.

Gained New Abilities =/= prime

I mean it's clear he has a wider variety of force abilities, such as his knowledge of nightsister magic and the temple at malachor, and more specifically his telepathic prowess seems to have greatly expanded, but that doesn't preclude his overall physical and combative prowess declining.

Yeah, one of the most skilled fighters in history, a level 8 which is a "cheat" level, far beyond normal duelists, and then became an even better duelist after his hermitage. Somehow I'm just not convinced he'd **** up that bad.

Also, I think it's just said the story group doesn't review the content of the blogs, not that they're outright non-canon.

Even if they were Canon I wouldn't give a shit.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Gained New Abilities =/= prime

I mean it's clear he has a wider variety of force abilities, such as his knowledge of nightsister magic and the temple at malachor, and more specifically his telepathic prowess seems to have greatly expanded, but that doesn't preclude his overall physical and combative prowess declining.

Apparently you missed the portion where it said he still builds on his Master's teachings after all these years, meaning he's improved his dueling.

Az who wins Kenobi or Vitiate

Originally posted by Azronger
Yeah, one of the most skilled fighters in history, a level 8 which is a "cheat" level, far beyond normal duelists, and then became an even better duelist after his hermitage. Somehow I'm just not convinced he'd **** up that bad.

Also, I think it's just said the story group doesn't review the content of the blogs, not that they're outright non-canon.

Kenobi is a 10+ then.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Even if they were Canon I wouldn't give a shit.

I think you're just salty that Kenobi, Dooku and Vader would all blitz Revan

Originally posted by Azronger
I think you're just salty that Kenobi, Dooku and Vader would all blitz Revan
Would say your joking but you probably aren't rofl

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Az who wins Kenobi or Vitiate

Vitiate has demonstrated a wider variety and more poweful uses of Force powers, but Kenobi would probably cream him in a combat scenario with his vastly superior skill, tactics and speed.

Originally posted by Azronger
I think you're just salty that Kenobi, Dooku and Vader would all blitz Revan
I think you're just salty that nobody takes you seriously

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I think you're just salty that nobody takes you seriously
In the old days I was always concerned ppl would believe what he says, but at this point I don't have to worry about that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
In the old days I was always concerned ppl would believe what he says, but at this point I don't have to worry about that.

So you concede I was a threat to your agenda?

That was well established, lmfao.

Now your honestly not, so carry on.

Az is okay, though. He's just under the effect of a temporary ecstasy. Once Malgus returns in SWTOR I'll probably be flooding the forums as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That was well established, lmfao.

Now your honestly not, so carry on.

Yes, I will continue on with making arguments using perfectly valid quotes that you can't refute without resorting to logical fallacies

Care to prove me wrong?

toasted

Originally posted by Azronger
No. Yiz. Dooku had never blitzed an 8+ duelist and never will.

Someone please compile a gif of Kenobi besting Maul and Kanan besting Maul http://www.narutoforums.com/styles/nf/smilies/user222437_pic71490_1370609620_thumb.png

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yiz. Dooku had never blitzed an 8+ duelist and never will.

Dooku was on par with RotS Kenobi, who's > ANH Kenobi, who blitzed Maul. So Dooku is now a Maul blitzer

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
toasted

Is that a concession?

Originally posted by Azronger
Dooku was on par with RotS Kenobi, who's > ANH Kenobi, who blitzed Maul. So Dooku is now a Maul blitzer RotS Kenobi has never blitzed 8+ duelist either so no. ANH Kenobi >

Originally posted by Beniboybling
RotS Kenobi has never blitzed 8+ duelist so no.

ANH Kenobi is but a mere shadow of RotS Kenobi, though

Originally posted by Beniboybling
RotS Kenobi has never blitzed 8+ duelist either so no. ANH Kenobi >

He just did c*nt.

Kenobi would blitz CW Sidious with ease because Rebels Maul > SoD Maul > TPM Maul > TPM Sidious. Right Azzie?

Originally posted by Azronger
ANH Kenobi is but a mere shadow of RotS Kenobi, though

This motherf*cker gets it.

RotS Kenobi could blitz 10 CW Sidious's.

Originally posted by Azronger
ANH Kenobi is but a mere shadow of RotS Kenobi, though Not in Canon clearly.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
This motherf*cker gets it.

RotS Kenobi could blitz 10 CW Sidious's. https://68.media.tumblr.com/2f05fa3ecbc9cf061fb506c79f030d8c/tumblr_o2kbj0Hi4T1un7uhro2_r2_250.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
https://68.media.tumblr.com/2f05fa3ecbc9cf061fb506c79f030d8c/tumblr_o2kbj0Hi4T1un7uhro2_r2_250.gif

LMFAO. Sidious just had a hearth attack by looking at uber Kenobi.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
He just did c*nt.

Kenobi would blitz CW Sidious with ease because Rebels Maul > SoD Maul > TPM Maul > TPM Sidious. Right Azzie?

The forum was a much more pleasant place when you were gone.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not in Canon clearly.

Unless it's outright stated to not be the case, I'm sticking with it.

Originally posted by Azronger
The forum was a much more pleasant place when you were gone. lol

Coz Disney canon...

In universe reason: Kenobi likely focused himself the second he heard Luke brought into this and wrecked maul like the leg less punk he was

Originally posted by Azronger
Unless it's outright stated to not be the case, I'm sticking with it. U r in denial then, got it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
U r in denial then, got it.

Nah. Ur the one that doesn't think Sidious could take infinite Vaders.

#GitRekt

u know who Kenobi can rek tho, galen.

It tru. :'(

I'm just excited for how this bumps vader...
(vader>revan)

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
I'm just excited for how this bumps vader...
(vader>revan)
It definitely helps explain why Kenobi was able to fight evenly with Vader in ANH. I kind of expected this to happen since the new canon seems to have Vader as a top tier force user.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I don't think the fight can be accurately used to powerscale for Ben or Maul for several reasons. The biggest thing is the fact that Maul used the same old tricks *exactly*; moves that Kenobi has already seen and is familiar with. Kenobi is a more transformative and progressive fighter than Maul is, and that transformation is seen pretty evidently when Ben shifts from his PT opening stance to a simpler one, as Ares has mentioned. Maul thought he was facing an old, crippled hermit and nothing more, so I don't think he really expected anything impressive skill-wise from Kenobi.

The fight is more symbolic of Maul's stagnation and how he clings to the past, while Kenobi has moved on, both mentally and in a dueling-sense. Ben and Maul's face-off is more exclusive to them and their past and growth (or lack thereof) as characters. Using it to start saying "ya lol maul is fodder even ___ can beat him" or "ben can stomp malgus now" is really just ridiculous.

Pathetic.

Ben's a level 6, Vader's a 4.

Wow just watched this half-assed shit from Filoni. I think I mentally an heroed.

https://media.tenor.co/images/b9ebfbf0e8060ab57071dea8e537b05c/tenor.gif

Originally posted by Kurk
Wow just watched this half-assed shit from Filoni. I think I mentally an heroed.

https://media.tenor.co/images/b9ebfbf0e8060ab57071dea8e537b05c/tenor.gif


http://puu.sh/dCT8F/0a055ee74d.png

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Pathetic. You know I'm right.

Honestly the rebels recon made me appreciate the episode so much more. And the duel was incredibly symblic if short.
Props to feloni and disney

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I don't think the fight can be accurately used to powerscale for Ben or Maul for several reasons. The biggest thing is the fact that Maul used the same old tricks *exactly*; moves that Kenobi has already seen and is familiar with. Kenobi is a more transformative and progressive fighter than Maul is, and that transformation is seen pretty evidently when Ben shifts from his PT opening stance to a simpler one, as Ares has mentioned. Maul thought he was facing an old, crippled hermit and nothing more, so I don't think he really expected anything impressive skill-wise from Kenobi.

The fight is more symbolic of Maul's stagnation and how he clings to the past, while Kenobi has moved on, both mentally and in a dueling-sense. Ben and Maul's face-off is more exclusive to them and their past and growth (or lack thereof) as characters. Using it to start saying "ya lol maul is fodder even ___ can beat him" or "ben can stomp malgus now" is really just ridiculous.
This.

Originally posted by Azronger
Vitiate has demonstrated a wider variety and more poweful uses of Force powers, but Kenobi would probably cream him in a combat scenario with his vastly superior skill, tactics and speed.
You need to see a doctor. I fear for your sanity.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Quanchi is currently crying in a corner thinking of an excuse for why Maul lost lmao When have I ever ignored continuity ?? You people and your ignorance is very troubling. If you ask nicely I can explain everything for the mongoloids. Gather round but be polite and ask NICELY.

damn, maul got destroyed lol so much for all his defenders eh

Originally posted by relentless1
damn, maul got destroyed lol so much for all his defenders eh


It was just bad promotion and storytelling tbh. I mean seriously who enjoyed that fight except for Maul haters?

Kenobi wankers

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Kenobi wankers


At least you got exactly what you wanted dude


But hey even for Kenobi's no.1 fan, this would have meant a thousand times more if not for that Kanan vs Maul crapfest.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was just bad promotion and storytelling tbh. I mean seriously who enjoyed that fight except for Maul haters?

Depends on how you view it, it's explained by Filoni that they know each other in and out and that fights between two really good swordsmen isn't always long and stuff. I don't like it but it seems reasonable.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Depends on how you view it, it's explained by Filoni that they know each other in and out and that fights between two really good swordsmen isn't always long and stuff. I don't like it but it seems reasonable.


Dude I'm fed up of getting commentary to save Maul some tiny bit of grace.

If Filoni wanted to tell us anything good about Maul, he should have shown it instead of commenting on it. Especially for his final outing.

Also Filoni's commentary:

"I think on one hand people would be excited to see another prolonged Lightsaber fight, but I just never really saw the competition that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth. Yes it's exciting as an audience member but it's not really a believable thing. The storytelling has to evolve.."


And this from Producer Carrie Beck:

"I think it's important for us that, even in the timeline we're not at A New Hope yet, what we know of Obi-Wan in that movie and work backwards in some way, to make sure that the character's progression charts appropriately"

^ all just says to me they wanted to show how Obi-Wan's grown so much that he's now beyond Maul an even match for Vader by ANH.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dude I'm fed up of getting commentary to save Maul some tiny bit of grace.

If Filoni wanted to tell us anything good about Maul, he should have shown it instead of commenting on it. Especially for his final outing.

Also Filoni's commentary:

"I think on one hand people would be excited to see another prolonged Lightsaber fight, but I just never really saw the competition that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth. Yes it's exciting as an audience member but it's not really a believable thing. The storytelling has to evolve.."


And this from Producer Carrie Beck:

"I think it's important for us that, even in the timeline we're not at A New Hope yet, what we know of Obi-Wan in that movie and work backwards in some way, to make sure that the character's progression charts appropriately"

^ all just says to me they wanted to show how Obi-Wan's grown so much that he's now beyond Maul an even match for Vader by ANH.

Sure I agree with you, I'm just saying it's logical from their point of view. Maul had nothing to fight for anymore, he lost everything but instead of growing with it he's stuck in the past while Obi-Wan accepted his fate as a guardian to Luke which gave him purpose. In the end it's basically a motivated character versus someone who has nothing, doesn't matter how good you are there's always going to be one winner.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Sure I agree with you, I'm just saying it's logical from their point of view. Maul had nothing to fight for anymore, he lost everything but instead of growing with it he's stuck in the past while Obi-Wan accepted his fate as a guardian to Luke which gave him purpose. In the end it's basically a motivated character versus someone who has nothing, doesn't matter how good you are there's always going to be one winner.



The logic of Obi-Wan's higher purpose making him grow far above Maul's petty purpose makes sense.

However the logic of repeatedly humiliating Maul, and finally finishing him off in a 2 second fight, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Except that the people who brought Maul back into Rebels never particularly liked him.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
The logic of Obi-Wan's higher purpose making him grow far above Maul's petty purpose makes sense.

However the logic of repeatedly humiliating Maul, and finally finishing him off in a 2 second fight, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Except that the people who brought Maul back into Rebels never particularly liked him.

Yeah they were probably obliged to kill Maul in a decent medium and since GL stopped Filoni from doing it in TCW they had to do it in Rebels

Originally posted by relentless1
damn, maul got destroyed lol so much for all his defenders eh You aren't grasping the situation are you ?? Not surprised.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was just bad promotion and storytelling tbh. I mean seriously who enjoyed that fight except for Maul haters? I did. u mad?

Am I the only one who noticed similarity between this duel and that of Revan against the Imperial Guard?

Ben gives the impression of being calm, wise and having great precognition ability much like Revan, outsmarting an incredibly skilled opponent with superior clarity and judgement in like 2 - 3 moves.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I did. u mad?


Gay

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was just bad promotion and storytelling tbh. I mean seriously who enjoyed that fight except for Maul haters?

maybe so but its canon now. I feel no hate or love for Maul I am just amused by all the warring over this guy that I've witnessed on here.

its great story telling that goes beyond cool and flashy fight sequences

Maul being dumb.

And nostalgia-pandering.

Maul was stuck in the past and Kenobi was being selfless in the moment over the threat on Luke. A perfect moment to represent the difference of ideals and values between a Sith and a Jedi.

The scene definitely represents the evolution of both Kenobi and Maul as swordsmen. The scene does make sense, and there is a lot of background information that explains that.

Now, Maul before his injuries inflicted by Kenobi had a far different mindset than he did during the clone wars and rebels. During the duel of fates he was a calculating fighter. He controlled the fight, letting Qui-Gon lead him to the generator room. He allowed his adversary to do so, in order to weaken Jinn since he wouldn't be able to use Ataru properly in such a confined space. This combined with Ataru's weak defence allowed Maul to then go on the offensive once Jinn tired and dissect his defences.
After he lost his legs to Kenobi, Maul changed as a fighter. Sure he still remained a Juyo specialist, but instead of attempting to strategise during fights, he instead approached fights with blind fury.

Kenobi was an Ataru specialist but began studying Soresu after the duel of fates to make up for Ataru's main weakness, defence. He later mastered Soresu to its highest degree, which became his primary form. Windu called him the reigning master of Soresu.

Masters of Soresu have never had their lightsaber defences broken, but it is theorised that only Juyo could penetrate the defences of a Soresu master. Then again, Kenobi during the time of this duel did not practice much.

For the duel itself, I will describe what happens. Obi-Wan brandishes his lightsaber and puts himself in a Soresu stance. Maul then changes his stance twice. On the next change, Kenobi does something curious. He changes his stance to that of Ataru, the exact stance Jinn used against Maul, and the form Jinn and Kenobi himself used against Maul during duel of the fates.

Maul then attacks, instead of a defensive strike, Kenobi actually swings his saber to meet Maul's swing. An Ataru response instead of a Soresu response. After the second strike, which Kenobi aptly defends, Maul attempts the move he used on Jinn: moving his hilt up in order to stun, following with a killing blow. Kenobi however cuts the hilt of Maul's saber before he can finish the move.

My theory is that Kenobi adopted an Ataru stance in order to trick Maul into thinking he could pull off the same trick on Kenobi as he did Jinn. The fact that Maul did not think about what he was doing but instead relied on blind rage only made this worse for him.


That's my two cents on the fight.

^^^

Good observation there.

Actually nothing wrong with that fight. Maul as a duelist is a solid 7 or so, while Kenobi evolved to a 9 or 10. Just a superior opponent and not the youngling Maul faced before. He simply underestimated a superior foe.

Gillard stated Maul was a 8 in TPM, so you agree he declined?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Actually nothing wrong with that fight. Maul as a duelist is a solid 7 or so, while Kenobi evolved to a 9 or 10. Just a superior opponent and not the youngling Maul faced before. He simply underestimated a superior foe. Complete hogwash. Your Star Wars ignorance is only matched by your comic book ignorance.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
It was just bad promotion and storytelling tbh. I mean seriously who enjoyed that fight except for Maul haters?
While I love me some Kenobi, I'm far from a Maul hater, he's just sort of a one-dimensional character to me.

As for the fight, I enjoyed it, reminded me of an old Samurai duel, which weren't a long drawn out display of acrobatics, but a quick clash with the superior opponent left standing, so historians say.

Originally posted by Robtard


As for the fight, I enjoyed it, reminded me of an old Samurai duel, which weren't a long drawn out display of acrobatics, but a quick clash with the superior opponent left standing, so historians say.


Yeah but there wasn't really any fight to enjoy. It was too short. The enjoyable bits were the exchange of words between them, but there was nothing to the fight itself Imho, except "hey look how much better Obi-Wan is than Maul.."

Given the promotion and build up to it, I was very disappointed. If you look at their fights in TCW, Obi-Wan looked like the better combatant, but it was still always a great back and forth fight. So this being their final and ultimate confrontation was a big let down to me personally. Give me TCW over Rebels any day.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but there wasn't really any fight to enjoy. It was too short. The enjoyable bits were the exchange of words between them, but there was nothing to the fight itself Imho, except "hey look how much better Obi-Wan is than Maul.."

Given the promotion and build up to it, I was very disappointed. If you look at their fights in TCW, Obi-Wan looked like the better combatant, but it was still always a great back and forth fight. So this being their final and ultimate confrontation was a big let down to me personally. Give me TCW over Rebels any day.

Obi-Wan simply improved, while Maul didn't. Maul stayed a 7 or 8 but Obi-Wan might be now on Yoda/Sidious level. Who knows.

Maul was an 8 in TPM as per Gillard.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Obi-Wan simply improved, while Maul didn't.


That's fine, but they can still have a fight. Look at Yoda vs Dooku.



Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
but Obi-Wan might be now on Yoda/Sidious level. Who knows.


More like Dooku/Mace level I'd say.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Obi-Wan simply improved, while Maul didn't. Maul stayed a 7 or 8 but Obi-Wan might be now on Yoda/Sidious level. Who knows. Maul was lost while Kenobi knew exactly who he was in the moment. That's all. It's saying psyches don't matter. Watch Rocky three. He gets crushed by Lang but when his psyche is off. When he gets his mojo back he wins. Maul was also well past his physical apex. Try actually understanding what is occurring before you utter more nonsense.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but there wasn't really any fight to enjoy. It was too short. The enjoyable bits were the exchange of words between them, but there was nothing to the fight itself Imho, except "hey look how much better Obi-Wan is than Maul.."

Given the promotion and build up to it, I was very disappointed. If you look at their fights in TCW, Obi-Wan looked like the better combatant, but it was still always a great back and forth fight. So this being their final and ultimate confrontation was a big let down to me personally. Give me TCW over Rebels any day. Another fanboy response who wanted more of the same, we have seen long saber duels between the two more than any other two duelists of star wars off the top of my head. I love the difference and the explanation. Duration of a fight does not denote skill. They fought it mentally and master swordsman duels aren't long. The tension was palpable and this was different. Maul was broken whereas Kenobi knew exactly who he was and fought for something bigger than himself. Both past their primes I accept what was shown and enjoy the difference. It worked. It's about the story, emotion, and tension not just fanboy drawn out duels.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah but there wasn't really any fight to enjoy. It was too short. The enjoyable bits were the exchange of words between them, but there was nothing to the fight itself Imho, except "hey look how much better Obi-Wan is than Maul.."

Given the promotion and build up to it, I was very disappointed. If you look at their fights in TCW, Obi-Wan looked like the better combatant, but it was still always a great back and forth fight. So this being their final and ultimate confrontation was a big let down to me personally. Give me TCW over Rebels any day.

To me, the unexpected quickness and samurai-esque clash was welcome. Just a matter of taste.

There I agree, TCW is the superior cartoon of the two.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That's fine, but they can still have a fight. Look at Yoda vs Dooku.

More like Dooku/Mace level I'd say.

Dooku might be skillwise on almost the same level as Yoda and Sidious, yet lacks (though very powerful) their depth in the force.

Kenobi was above Maul, more so than Yoda was above Dooku. Sans this Yoda took it easy on Dooku, as he was his apprentice once.

Maul is good, as fine as some of the best Jedi Knights, but he is not on the level of Masters like Dooku, Yoda, Sidious and obviously Kenobi. This was portrayed by the duel quite good.

I wonder how Kenobi vs Darth Vader would have went if Kenobi wouldn't give Vader the killing blow.

Omg, who would've expected Quanchi to be in denial over Ben's utter ownage of Maul? Probably nobody.


Anyway, Quan. Sure, your psychological state matters when fighting any opponent, especially if said opponent is the reason of your unstable state of mind. You had ROTS Vader vs. ROTS Kenobi, when both were broken while fighting. You have ROTJ Vader vs. ROTJ Luke. They were also mentally broken whilst fighting, for obvious reasons. Yet, those two fights are considered epic, as all combatants go blow-for-blow .

Ben Kenobi beat Maul down in literally three strikes, bro. I don't give a shit how 'lost' he was, that was outright pathetic.

At this point, I'm seriously simply amused at your max level denial regarding Maul's position in the mythos, tbh.

Maul died an heroic death, I won't tolerate this disrespect. uhuh

Yeah, seeking out Kenobi was definitely equal to an heroing.

Originally posted by Petrus
Omg, who would've expected Quanchi to be in denial over Ben's utter ownage of Maul? Probably nobody.


Anyway, Quan. Sure, your psychological state matters when fighting any opponent, especially if said opponent is the reason of your unstable state of mind. You had ROTS Vader vs. ROTS Kenobi, when both were broken while fighting. You have ROTJ Vader vs. ROTJ Luke. They were also mentally broken whilst fighting, for obvious reasons. Yet, those two fights are considered epic, as all combatants go blow-for-blow .

Ben Kenobi beat Maul down in literally three strikes, bro. I don't give a shit how 'lost' he was, that was outright pathetic.

At this point, I'm seriously simply amused at your max level denial regarding Maul's position in the mythos, tbh. The creators disagree and have already laid out the reasons. You're in denial and are young and probably just want more of the same a long drawn out battle with sabers. That's been done to death with these two. Duration of combat doesn't necessarily denote greater skill especially in light of the fact the creators have laid out the reasons for this duel.

Difference is Maul is well past his prime. Kenobi knew who he was in the moment and Maul was broken and a lost person at the time of the duel.

When did any creator state both were broken and lost. Anakin became Vader and was at his physical apex. Kenobi was heartbroken his former pupil turned on the very order they both were a part of but knew what he needed to do. When the time came Kenobi cleaved body parts off the idiotic Vader.

You don't have the maturity to grasp the factors that go into a master duel and just want to see a lot of strikes and defenses. Thankfully no one as immature as yourself will ever create a Star Wars fight because you're too limited in your education regarding the multiple avenues of how to achieve maximum tension.

You cannot deny the creators who wrote the fight. I get it that you're ignorant but you only hurt your own credibility and no one else's.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yeah, seeking out Kenobi was definitely equal to an heroing. Immaturity and a lack of comprehension are at play here on your behalf. To be expected.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The creators disagree and have already laid out the reasons. You're in denial and are young and probably just want more of the same a long drawn out battle with sabers. That's been done to death with these two. Duration of combat doesn't necessarily denote greater skill especially in light of the fact the creators have laid out the reasons for this duel.

Difference is Maul is well past his prime. Kenobi knew who he was in the moment and Maul was broken and a lost person at the time of the duel.

When did any creator state both were broken and lost. Anakin became Vader and was at his physical apex. Kenobi was heartbroken his former pupil turned on the very order they both were a part of but knew what he needed to do. When the time came Kenobi cleaved body parts off the idiotic Vader.

You don't have the maturity to grasp the factors that go into a master duel and just want to see a lot of strikes and defenses. Thankfully no one as immature as yourself will ever create a Star Wars fight because you're too limited in your education regarding the multiple avenues of how to achieve maximum tension.

You cannot deny the creators who wrote the fight. I get it that you're ignorant but you only hurt your own credibility and no one else's.


It's truly unbelievable how you literally cherry-pick and use arguments out of sheer convenience to use in favour of Maul.

It's one excuse after another with you.

And the creators don't disagree at all. They stated one character evolved/progressed while the other stayed behind/in the past. That's stating Ben Kenobi >> Maul, which they made clear in the series.

Originally posted by Petrus
It's truly unbelievable how you literally cherry-pick and use arguments out of sheer convenience to use in favour of Maul.

It's one excuse after another with you.

And the creators don't disagree at all. They stated one character evolved/progressed while the other stayed behind/in the past. That's stating Ben Kenobi >> Maul, which they made clear in the series. I am citing the very reasoning from the guys who created the scene. You're just saying there moves omg I mean come on. Quit ignoring their clearly detailed and explained reasoning.

It highlights the difference between the Sith and the Jedi. Kenobi moved forward Maul did not. That's what makes Maul great. He doesn't let anything go which is the hallmark of greatness. Jordan was the same way. Great athletes have a permanent chip on their shoulder. You can pretend this isn't the case but it's clearly supported. Kenobi is someone who is healthier mentally but he knew who he was. Maul was lost and searching for purpose so he channeled his hatred onto Kenobi.

Kenobi in that moment at Maul's weakest moment won. Maul is far past his prime and in no way wasn't this a duel between master swordsman. The creators were clear and went about it in a different avenue which I enjoy since they've had long duels before.

I am simply going with the evidence and being logical you're being immature and focusing on the number of strikes while ignoring their mental states.

Lmao. We both know that if the tables were turned, you'd be shitting on Kenobi and Vader at this very moment, saying how pathetic they are and how far above them Maul is.

Originally posted by Petrus
Lmao. We both know that if the tables were turned, you'd be shitting on Kenobi and Vader at this very moment, saying how pathetic they are and how far above them Maul is. No, since both were past their primes. Hell, the entire era of the ot only saw one Jedi in his prime, Luke. Vader, Sidious, and Kenobi were all past their best. They were wiser but we're all past their best.

Maul went on as a true Sith. Both characters perfectly embodied their opposing philosophies. I have a chip on my shoulder as Maul does. Love it.

Yes. Convenient arguments, Quan.

You're like Lois from Malcolm in the Middle, never giving up even after the war is lost.

Maul wasn't a Sith by Rebels. And a Sith doesn't speak of himself and his enemy as one on his deathbed.

Originally posted by Petrus
Yes. Convenient arguments, Quan.

You're like Lois from Malcolm in the Middle, never giving up even after the war is lost. My argument is supported by the creators, logic, and common sense. Yours isn't. My arguments are always supported by these whereas most carry on with agendas. I am above such petty things.

Quan aside, why is it implausible that Maul simply got out-****ing-skilled. There has never been a point in the mythos where Maul was on a higher level then Obi-Wan.

Not once

How about in TPM when Maul was an 8 and Kenobi was a 6 bordering on 7?

Or in TCW S4 Finale when Kenobi remarked that he was outmatched?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How about in TPM when Maul was an 8 and Kenobi was a 6 bordering on 7?

Or in TCW S4 Finale when Kenobi remarked that he was outmatched?

TPM Obi-Wan is a 7, not a 6.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Quan aside, why is it implausible that Maul simply got out-****ing-skilled. There has never been a point in the mythos where Maul was on a higher level then Obi-Wan.

Not once The creator flat out says otherwise, "So Obi-Wan is going to strike down Maul because Maul is such a broken and lost person,"

That's the creator telling you exactly why it occurred the manner in which it did. Fact.

In their first fight, second, and third fight. He was always better than he was.

Apart from TPM, Maul and Kenobi were always roughly on the same level. But it's clear that Kenobi has progressed immensely after ROTS and that his OT self is far superior to his PT incarnation.

Originally posted by Petrus
Apart from TPM, Maul and Kenobi were always roughly on the same level. But it's clear that Kenobi has progressed immensely after ROTS and that his OT self is far superior to his PT incarnation. No, it isn't but this is clear the reason why

So Obi-Wan is going to strike down Maul because Maul is such a broken and lost person,

I am always right, Petrus. How does it feel ?

Your arguments suck, Quanchi. As almost always. It feels pretty good, tbh. Quite hilarious, your denial.

You're interpreting the author's statements in a very convenient way for Maul, yet I remember you bashing me and other people for taking Filoni's comments at face-value prior to this. You're such a hypocrite, lol.

Originally posted by Petrus
Your arguments suck, Quanchi. As almost always. It feels pretty good, tbh. Quite hilarious, your denial.

You're interpreting the author's statements in a very convenient way for Maul, yet I remember you bashing me and other people for taking Filoni's comments at face-value prior to this. You're such a hypocrite, lol. I just quoted the reason the creator of the fight gave for why it went down that way. Your denial of Filoni's own words over his own work is hilarious. Over his own work it's fine. But over a theoretical fight that isn't canon it's just his opinion.

Huh? You were saying Filoni's opinions and whatever he said regarding Rebels is shit and not valid. Now you're taking his words at face-value. Hypocrite.

And no. You're conveniently interpreting what's been said of this duel to aid Maul's case that he wasn't destroyed by Kenobi. Which he was.


You proclaming that you're not biased towards Maul is probably one of the most blatant lies I've seen on these boards, kek.

Originally posted by Petrus
Huh? You were saying Filoni's opinions and whatever he said regarding Rebels is shit and not valid. Now you're taking his words at face-value. Hypocrite.

And no. You're conveniently interpreting what's been said of this duel to aid Maul's case that he wasn't destroyed by Kenobi. Which he was.


You proclaming that you're not biased towards Maul is probably one of the most blatant lies I've seen on these boards, kek. You are not grasping what I'm saying. His opinion only matters over canon work he's involved with. Every fight on his shows his opinion matters since he created the fights and was involved there. But if you ask him who wins over Yoda and Sidious that's only his opinion since the two characters never met up in a real world duel on either show to this point. Do you get it now ?

Comic book debaters have established the difference years ago but you're probably some dumb kid who sees it as all the same.

I am going by the creator of a canon fight. If he muses on Vader vs. Windu it also doesn't matter since he's never created a fight that is canon between the two therefore it's just his opinion on how it would go down.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are not grasping what I'm saying. His opinion only matters over canon work he's involved with. Every fight on his shows his opinion matters since he created the fights and was involved there. But if you ask him who wins over Yoda and Sidious that's only his opinion since the two characters never met up in a real world duel on either show to this point. Do you get it now ?

Are you kidding me right now?

The argument we were having where you bashed me and others like Beni for taking it seriously, he was actually talking about Ahsoka's power, a character whom he was developing at that time, in a series he produces and directs.

Your cherry-picking is getting ridiculous.

By being the executive producer and director of Rebels, he has direct control over how characters fight and how their power is displayed. Sure, there are obvious do's and don't's, but what you're doing right now is incredibly hypocritical.

Originally posted by Petrus
Are you kidding me right now?

The argument we were having where you bashed me and others like Beni for taking it seriously, he was actually talking about Ahsoka's power, a character whom he was developing at that time, in a series he produces and directs.

Your cherry-picking is getting ridiculous.

By being the executive producer and director of Rebels, he has direct control over how characters fight and how their power is displayed. Sure, there are obvious do's and don't's, but what you're doing right now is incredibly hypocritical. When have I ever denied his opinion of canon events he oversaw ??

His musings on characters outside the facts are just his opinion. If he says Tano crushes Sidious and it never sees the light of day it's just his opinion. This isn't rocket science. Paul Jenkins the creator of the marvel comic book Sentry said he'd crush Thor in under five seconds. That never saw print so it is just his opinion. The fact never happened under his pen to become canon.

I deny nothing and accept the facts. Always. Give me a specific example. Your generalizations and incoherence are not legitimate points.

Originally posted by Petrus
Apart from TPM, Maul and Kenobi were always roughly on the same level. But it's clear that Kenobi has progressed immensely after ROTS and that his OT self is far superior to his PT incarnation.


Yes. This exactly.

One great thing about reviving Maul was we got to gauge Kenobi's abilities and progress between films much better.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


Or in TCW S4 Finale when Kenobi remarked that he was outmatched?
Yes kenobi was "outmatched" after taking a physical wrecking after maul unbalnced taking advantage of kenobi's being physically wrecked and maentally off guard due to having ambushed(with his brother) and tortured kenobi extensively with kenobi being kod twice prior. Lets just ignore when the fight beforehand where kenobi took maul out twice, retrived his saber from him, and
after instantly recovering from a flurry of maul's kicks was abe to intially drive maul back when maul angered him.

you could call that a wash because maul was rusty, but to actually use that fight to argue maul is more skilled than kenobi is asinine. And there's also what happened next episode, where kenobi simultaneously outdueled(and yes feloni not only calls it a kenobi victory but also says the duo couldn't beat kenobi's skill) oppress+maul despite having to use a secondary form due to facing multiple opponents.(and as feloni himself has confirmed, as well as kenobi replicating thi smultiple times throughout the mythos and stating his own ability to do this), kenobi's "focus amp" wasn't circumstantial.

Arguing taht tcw maul=tcw kenobi as a duelist is like trying to say that tcw kenobi=tcw maul as a force user. Except worse, because while
maul's showings had circumstances favoring them, and kenobi has had a degree of success tking bothj maul and oppress without circumstances, kenobi's succes as aduelist had circumstances hindering him,

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes. This exactly.

One great thing about reviving Maul was we got to gauge Kenobi's abilities and progress between films much better.

And it also explains why he was seemingly on par with ANH Vader.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yes. This exactly.

One great thing about reviving Maul was we got to gauge Kenobi's abilities and progress between films much better.

^ This

Feloni has already confirmed that maul and kenobi as of their fight in rebels had progressed as duelists from tcw, so argung that maul is pre prime or inferior(let alone "heads and shoulders" inferior is just bs. This is in addition to witwer's comments regarding maul combatively in season 2.

Maul losing due to his inferior emotional state doesn't change that.

Its also stupid to act as if this indicates that kenobi is out of maul's league or to use the showing to crap on maul because feloni has made abundantly clear the shortness of the fight was for storytelling purposes, not combative purposes.

So is kenobi>maul yes, but to use this fight and argue that kenobi could stomp maul in the context of a normal sw battle is just dumb. Just as its dumb to try to argue that maul isn't as of his ;prime here when feloni makes clear that maul is superior to his tcw self which was part of why kenobi and maul's fight were so short.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Feloni has already confirmed that maul and kenobi as of their fight in rebels had progressed as duelists from tcw, so argung that maul is pre prime or inferior(let alone "heads and shoulders" inferior is just bs. This is in addition to witwer's comments regarding maul combatively in season 2.

Maul losing due to his inferior emotional state doesn't change that.

Its also stupid to act as if this indicates that kenobi is out of maul's league or to use the showing to crap on maul because feloni has made abundantly clear the shortness of the fight was for storytelling purposes, not combative purposes.

So is kenobi>maul yes, but to use this fight and argue that kenobi could stomp maul in the context of a normal sw battle is just dumb. Just as its dumb to try to argue that maul isn't as of his ;prime here when feloni makes clear that maul is superior to his tcw self which was part of why kenobi and maul's fight were so short. That doesn't mean they were in their primes. Their primes were the pt era. They got wiser and learned more in their old age. They weren't more crapanle duelists in their waning years.

Maul lost due to his emotional state. Filoni said so.

At their best Maul is better than Kenobi. Nothing indicates neither were at their best. Don't be disingenuous.

1. The quote doesn't isn't just talking about growing wiser, its talking about them as swordsman, so to say they "weren't more capable duelists" is bs. Maul specifically being at his physical best(which I'd love to see the actual quote for) wouldn't at all change that overall maul is superior as feloni's statement refers to maul as a swordsman, not specifically maul's "experience" or hsving "learned more"
2.Maul being emotionally inferior, and less able to control his emotions makes him a worse fighter, Just as kenobi being able to control himself and outanticipate maul makes him the better fighter. The quote is talking about maul as of his emotional state as a swordsman having improved from sod. Him being a "sadder character", past his "glory days" or him being "broken" doesn't mean he hasn't progressed as a duelist as feloni has clearly indicate dthat he indeed has progressed along with kenobi as a swordsman from sod
3.You can keep saying that, it doesn't make it true.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. The quote doesn't isn't just talking about growing wiser, its talking about them as swordsman, so to say they "weren't more capable duelists" is bs. Maul specifically being at his physical best(which I'd love to see the actual quote for) wouldn't at all change that overall maul is superior as feloni's statement refers to maul as a swordsman, not specifically maul's "experience" or hsving "learned more"
2.Maul being emotionally inferior, and less able to control his emotions makes him a worse fighter, Just as kenobi being able to control himself and outanticipate maul makes him the better fighter. The quote is talking about maul as of his emotional state as a swordsman having improved from sod. Him being a "sadder character", past his "glory days" or him being "broken" doesn't mean he hasn't progressed as a duelist as feloni has clearly indicate dthat he indeed has progressed along with kenobi as a swordsman from sod
3.You can keep saying that, it doesn't make it true. Does the quote say they are at their best ?? Not at all. They have learned from the past aka wisdom. If Jordan learns something new about an opponent that doesn't mean he's better at age 50 than 30. Maul was broken hence why he lost. Mentally he was a broken person hence why he lost. If you think by suggesting a broken person is Maul at his best you're more retarded than I previously thought.

2. In this moment. That doesn't apply to other moments. Just as rocky got beat when he wasn't in the proper mindset to Clubber Lang. He said the reason he loses is he is broken so that's the very reason he loses. You're saying this doesn't apply but Filoni already states this is why he lost.

3. You haven't proven any of your claims and ignore logic at every turn. Find me one quote that says Kenobi or Maul from this episode are in their primes.

"growth" as "Very good swordsman" =/ "growth specifically of wisdom or experience" or "growth aside from physical or mental degradement". It means growth AS SWORDSMAN aka duelists. And as the quote is comparing why their rebels fight to their previous tcw fights wchich were "prolonged lightsaber duels", it indicates superiority to sod maul
Rebels maul is a superior duelist, and is more powerful than his sod self
SO yes this is prime maul, suggetsing otherwise is bs.

And yes maul is emotionally weaker than kenobi and yes kenobi was able to anticipate and cut down maul. Neither of those factors is circumstantial as of rebels maul who is superior to the maul who kenobi faced in tcw.

Wow

Yes, maul has "never grown"...
EMOTIONALLY
which is why he will "never be released from his suffering" and which is why kenobi"expresses of sadness". He isn't talking about the fight, he's specifically talking about the moment AFTER the fight where kenobi holds maul and maul "is hoping there will be some revenge enacted upon his enemies", to "his dying breath".

Your ability to misunderstand context is indeed impressive

One of the producers in the Rebels Recon mentioned Obi-Wan's Force ghost training from Qui-Gon.. I wonder how much that contributed to him becoming a better and more powerful Jedi.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Although I agree Maul is probably not in his prime during Rebels, nothing Filoni says really proves that He is older and frailer confirmed by the voice actor. What's worse is logic doesn't seem to work on you people. If one of these official creators or voice actors doesn't say it you deny the obvious.

2:15-2:20


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P-bJu__WXmY


So a frailer, broken, older and lost character is in his prime. Anyone who subscribed to this ridiculous theory needs to be lobotomized ASAP.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Although I agree Maul is probably not in his prime during Rebels, nothing Filoni says really proves that
->Witwer confirms that he's combatively at his most powerful
->Feloni confirms that maul and kenobi have improved as duelists specificially referring to when maul and kenobi are fighting
-> Maul has been growing in power for 15 years

This isn't prime maul because feloni talking specifically about maul as a character somehow=maul is broken and can't fight well combatively.