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Apparently the short duel is representative of both Maul and Kenobi's growth as swordsman...

https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=505

"When you've fought someone many times and are faced off you kinda know each others moves. So if you think about it the build up to this confrontation to the actual lightsabers hitting each other is actually longer because their basically playing it out in their heads."

As I said yesterday, it's quite literally predicting what the other guy will do. Obi-Wan won because Maul gave himself to emotion and made a rash play that Obi-Wan was specifically anticipating.

It has nothing to do with who handles a lightsaber better, just who is more in control of their head.

RIP Godnobi. Ahsoka stomps 10/10.

Originally posted by SunRazer
As I said yesterday, it's quite literally predicting what the other guy will do. Obi-Wan won because Maul gave himself to emotion and made a rash play that Obi-Wan was specifically anticipating.

It has nothing to do with who handles a lightsaber better, just who is more in control of their head.

No Maul is just trash tier

No. U guys are in denial. Godnobi is a thing. Deal with it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
As I said yesterday, it's quite literally predicting what the other guy will do. Obi-Wan won because Maul gave himself to emotion and made a rash play that Obi-Wan was specifically anticipating.

It has nothing to do with who handles a lightsaber better, just who is more in control of their head.
Kenobi being the more calm/collected fighter and being better at anticipating still puts him above maul, obviously though the gaps not nearly as big as the length of time would indicate.

Also, given kenobi's connection to the force depeened, with them being very good fighters as a reason for how short the fight was, and maul having gained knowledge/showcased new abilities and having been able to fight evenly with a challenger to vader in his prime, logically this would be maul and kenobi's prime which bodes well for vader.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Kenobi being the more calm/collected fighter and being better at anticipating still puts him above maul, obviously though the gaps not nearly as big as the length of time would indicate.

Also, given kenobi's connection to the force depeened, with them being very good fighters as a reason for how short the fight was, and maul having gained knowledge/showcased new abilities and having been able to fight evenly with a challenger to vader in his prime, logically this would be maul and kenobi's prime which bodes well for vader.

Why would it be their prime? Sure Maul gained knowledge, but how does that translate to a physical prime body? Who's to say in his younger state, he wouldn't be able to do the same martial wise?

What? I'm not debating who is more powerful or skilled. I'm saying this contest has nothing to do with how good they are at wielding a lightsaber. It was entirely down to mindset, as I said and as Filoni said.

Originally posted by carthage
No Maul is just trash tier u thought Maul was done but he's been given a second chance, best prepare the damage control sleamo.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why would it be their prime? Sure Maul gained knowledge, but how does that translate to a physical prime body? Who's to say in his younger state, he wouldn't be able to do the same martial wise?
Because their fight being incredibly short is attributed to both being very good fighters which would suggest they grew as duelists from back when their fights were drawn out.

And Gaining knwoledge usually translates with power growth.

Also, holistically as a duelist, fighting evenly with a challenge for prime vader(ahsoka) is better than anything from tcw

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Because their fight being incredibly short is attributed to both being very good fighters which would suggest they grew as duelists from back when their fights were drawn out.

And Gaining knwoledge usually translates with power growth.

Also, holistically as a duelist, fighting evenly with a challenge for prime vader(ahsoka) is better than anything from tcw

Right good fighters, not denying that they are and not denying their wasn't a power growth. But physically I mean, they wouldn't be in their prime.

Originally posted by SunRazer
As I said yesterday, it's quite literally predicting what the other guy will do. Obi-Wan won because Maul gave himself to emotion and made a rash play that Obi-Wan was specifically anticipating.

It has nothing to do with who handles a lightsaber better, just who is more in control of their head. So is Dooku more calm and collected than Kenobi? Or does that come down to who's the better swordsman?

Dooku is a better swordsman than Kenobi, yes. In Rebels Maul vs Obi-Wan, it's not necessarily clear as to who's better.

Attempting to draw a parallel between the two is outright stupid. Obi-Wan never charged Dooku stupidly in a rush of emotion. Except in the comic, but then Dooku KO'd him in one hit.

Btw, anyone else notice that Obi still had a touch of brown in his beard?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Right good fighters, not denying that they are and not denying their wasn't a power growth. But physically I mean, they wouldn't be in their prime.
There's such thing as force augmentation


And I was talking overall as duelists. The dude says that really good fighters have short fights as a reason for the shortness of their fight in rebels compared to the other more drawn out affairs which would imply that they've become more skilled or improved as duelists.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
There's such thing as force augmentation


And I was talking overall as duelists. The dude says that really good fighters have short fights as a reason for the shortness of their fight in rebels compared to the other more drawn out affairs which would imply that they've become more skilled or improved as duelists.

Well yeah, but a young blood could also use Force augmentation.

I suppose.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Apparently the short duel is representative of both Maul and Kenobi's growth as swordsman...

https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=505
He's referring to Kenobi.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Dooku is a better swordsman than Kenobi, yes. In Rebels Maul vs Obi-Wan, it's not necessarily clear as to who's better.

Attempting to draw a parallel between the two is outright stupid. Obi-Wan never charged Dooku stupidly in a rush of emotion. Except in the comic, but then Dooku KO'd him in one hit.
You're stretching this, Kenobi being calm and collected and being able to outwit maul make shim the better fighter which is why he won.
And I'm not sure where you're getting "stupid rush of emotion". Maul tried to do what he did vs qui gon and kenobi anticipated maul and won the fight. Maul screaming is what darksiders do.

Kenobi's emotional state being better, makes him better. Kenobi won because he was calm and focused like a jedi, maul was enraged and angry like a sith.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He's referring to Kenobi.
no, it refers to both of them
"people who are very good don't have long sword fights"

The desperation of some people to salvage Mauls last strip of dignity is amusing.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
no, it refers to both of them
"people who are very good don't have long sword fights"

So Dooku, Yoda, Sidious, Mace etc, aren't good duelists then?..

Originally posted by Zenwolf
So Dooku, Yoda, Sidious, Mace etc, aren't good duelists then?..
None of the duelists you've mentioned have had multiple serious fights(not sparring sessions) with each other. The quote was a reason for why their tcw fights were longer than the rebels fights

Sidious vs Yoda, Sidious vs Mace, Dooku vs Yoda were all fairly long... certainly much longer than Obi-Wan vs Maul.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Sidious vs Yoda, Sidious vs Mace, Dooku vs Yoda were all fairly long... certainly much longer than Obi-Wan vs Maul.
Which of the above have repeatedly dueled each other in life or death situations?

Also the quote was in the context of kenobi vs maul and why this fight between the two was shorter
there's no reason to bring others into this

Sidious' duels are both life and death situations, lmfao. Sidious and Yoda are certainly "very skilled" and moreso than Obi-Wan and Maul.

Simply put, whilst Filoni is on the right track that duels are generally quite short, the notion that greater skill results in shorter fights is simply dead wrong. And it doesn't matter if Filoni has said it or not.

Filoni was talking about RL lol, in which case I'm pretty sure he is correct.

He's referring to both (and it's also stated in SW). But if he's referring to just RL, then the quote won't universally apply to SW anyway. So eh.

Originally posted by SunRazer
As I said yesterday, it's quite literally predicting what the other guy will do. Obi-Wan won because Maul gave himself to emotion and made a rash play that Obi-Wan was specifically anticipating.

It has nothing to do with who handles a lightsaber better, just who is more in control of their head.

Originally posted by SunRazer
What? I'm not debating who is more powerful or skilled. I'm saying this contest has nothing to do with how good they are at wielding a lightsaber. It was entirely down to mindset, as I said and as Filoni said.

lmao

Sure it does. Being able to anticipate your opponents move is *shocker* a big part of being a skilled swordsman.

That's part of combat; not part of handling a lightsaber. Different things. Which is why if we made a thread between the two, sure, Obi-Wan could well be winning the vast majority.

But if we separately pitted them against a common character, the results may or may not vary. It's mostly down to Maul's arrogance/impulsiveness here. Which is a factor of combat, sure, but distinct from actual skill in handling a lightsaber.

Originally posted by SunRazer
He's referring to both (and it's also stated in SW). But if he's referring to just RL, then the quote won't universally apply to SW anyway. So eh. He's referring to how RL duels influenced the dynamic of the fight, he never says its some kind of rule in the SW universe, which it's clearly not.

Alright.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Sidious' duels are both life and death situations, lmfao. Sidious and Yoda are certainly "very skilled" and moreso than Obi-Wan and Maul.

Simply put, whilst Filoni is on the right track that duels are generally quite short, the notion that greater skill results in shorter fights is simply dead wrong. And it doesn't matter if Filoni has said it or not.
You're missing the point, yoda and sidious have dueled....
ONCE.

Kenobi and maul have fought each other multiple times, hence why they're able to anticipate each other's moves.

And if part of the reasoning for them fighting very short(compared to their other fights) is them being very good fighters, then that implies they were not as good when they had longer drawn out fights which suggests they've become better duelists from when THEIR fights were drawn out affairs

And whether feloni's bsing or not doesn't really matter, The statement has nothing do with yoda and Sidious, it's an excuse made for kenobi vs maul, no one else

Also considering that yoda and sidious are way way faster than maul or kenobi, it's actually quite possible their fight in real SW time was way way shorter.

Kenobi and Maul don't know each other's moves anywhere near as well as Kenobi and Skywalker did, yet the latter lasted for minutes on end. That was the fight showing 2 great combatants equally matched in skill.

To be honest, they should have not brought back Darth Maul in the first place. I heared that Dave Filoni did not like this decision.

We can blame George Lucas for poor judgement.

Maul is either vastly inferior, or constantly finds himself losing to inferior/same level opponents due to his own stupidity. If his incompetence in this regard gets in his way so frequently, even in the most decisive fights in his life, then why not assume he would most likely perform as poorly in versus threads? I don't see how Maul defenders think they are proving anything relevant when there is a pattern here.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Kenobi and Maul don't know each other's moves anywhere near as well as Kenobi and Skywalker did, yet the latter lasted for minutes on end. That was the fight showing 2 great combatants equally matched in skill.
Really doesn't matter. For the purpose of kenobi vs maul, the shortness of the fight was because of
a. them having fought each other multiple times

b. them being more skilled than when they last fought

Whether those were considered in other duels in the mythtos doesn't change what was intended for this fight between these two characters

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
To be honest, they should have not brought back Darth Maul in the first place. I heared that Dave Filoni did not like this decision.

We can blame George Lucas for poor judgement.


Well I wish they hadn't now, or that Palpatine killed him in TCW.

Either way it being a poor decision is no justification to treat the character this badly. I think Lucas kept a leash on Filoni tbh.

Originally posted by Sinious
Maul is either vastly inferior, or constantly finds himself losing to inferior/same level opponents due to his own stupidity. If his incompetence in this regard gets in his way so frequently, even in the most decisive fights in his life, then why not assume he would most likely perform as poorly in versus threads? I don't see how Maul defenders think they are proving anything relevant when there is a pattern here.


Depends what they're defending. There's no argument anymore for him being Kenobi or Dooku's equal. But he has enough feats to put him above the majority of Masters and Council Members. And in terms of villains he's clearly above the likes of Ventress, Opress and Grievous.

Prime Maul might be Rebel Ahsoka's equal. But that's best case scenario for him at this point.

That Maul doesn't exist anymore. Originally posted by Darth Thor
Depends what they're defending. There's no argument anymore for him being Kenobi or Dooku's equal. But he has enough feats to put him above the majority of Masters and Council Members. And in terms of villains he's clearly above the likes of Ventress, Opress and Grievous.

Prime Maul might be Rebel Ahsoka's equal. But that's best case scenario for him at this point. Ventress and Grievous can outsmart him tbh. Savage is just as dumb though.

Originally posted by Sinious
That Maul doesn't exist anymore. Ventress and Grievous can outsmart him tbh. Savage is just as dumb though.

Right hence why I said Legends.

Resurrection is non-canon even to Legends.

Originally posted by Azronger
Resurrection is non-canon even to Legends.

/Shrug

Point being still is that Maul in that continuity doesn't have many low ends. Which was my point to Sin.

Originally posted by Sinious
That Maul doesn't exist anymore. Ventress and Grievous can outsmart him tbh. Savage is just as dumb though.
Ventress can beat Maul by outsmarting him... yet the much less intelligent Savage matched her pretty closely in their duel without being outsmarted?

And Grievous has his fair share of stupid bullshit moments as well.

Legends Maul is non canon and his showing against Vader was legitimately debunked. Why people keep clinging to comics written a decade ago to wank a character who is consistently been shown to be fodder tier is beyond me

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Depends what they're defending. There's no argument anymore for him being Kenobi or Dooku's equal. But he has enough feats to put him above the majority of Masters and Council Members. And in terms of villains he's clearly above the likes of Ventress, Opress and Grievous.

Prime Maul might be Rebel Ahsoka's equal. But that's best case scenario for him at this point. Prime Maul was Vader and Kenobi's better. Old Master Maul handled himself just fine against Tano. Quit being disingenuous.

Originally posted by Sinious
Ventress and Grievous can outsmart him tbh.


Possible but not very likely.

But I can see Grievous cheating. He has no issues using his soldiers for help if he's losing a 1 v 1. In fact he'd probably send magnaguards to "tire" Maul down a little first.

Prime Maul was never better than Vader.

Originally posted by playa1258
Prime Maul was never better than Vader. In his prime he'd annihilate Vader who was never the same mobility wise when he was condemned to the suit.

Your butt-hurt is showing.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Apparently the short duel is representative of both Maul and Kenobi's growth as swordsman...

https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=505

I mean I get it artistically but this is blatantly contradicted by the canon. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan took place between two extremely talented swordsmen who knew each other the best and its the longest fight in the mythos.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I mean I get it artistically but this is blatantly contradicted by the canon. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan took place between two extremely talented swordsmen who knew each other the best and its the longest fight in the mythos. The simplest explanations are this varies. We know what characters are of high skill levels and both Maul and Kenobi have a very storied and detailed history of canon fights. This duel was done differently and I appreciate the difference in style. I'm also not a mindless fanboy so I don't need a ten minute back and forth to justify someone's skill level either.

Originally posted by playa1258
Your butt-hurt is showing. My rational thinking is showing. Once again I'm correct in the heart of the pack of lemmings being prisoners of the moment.

Kenobi is superior to Maul.

Accept it.

Originally posted by playa1258
Kenobi is superior to Maul.

Accept it. Do not be ridiculous.

You're upset Vader isn't his own man whereas Maul was. Your fanboyism is showing.

Your butt-hurt fanboyism is showing.

Kenobi is superior.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The simplest explanations are this varies. We know what characters are of high skill levels and both Maul and Kenobi have a very storied and detailed history of canon fights. This duel was done differently and I appreciate the difference in style. I'm also not a mindless fanboy so I don't need a ten minute back and forth to justify someone's skill level either.

Lol the denial is real. I don't need any back and forth. Maul is weak, by far the weakest of the canon Sith Lords and he's weaker than Kenobi. This is what I've been saying for years and Lord Filoni has once again vindicated my views. Thank you Filoni. Thank you.

Originally posted by playa1258
Your butt-hurt fanboyism is showing.

Kenobi is superior. False.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol the denial is real. I don't need any back and forth. Maul is weak, by far the weakest of the canon Sith Lords and he's weaker than Kenobi. This is what I've been saying for years and Lord Filoni has once again vindicated my views. Thank you Filoni. Thank you. You're ignoring them being past their primes, ignoring their canon fights, ignoring Maul's accolades, etc. and making baseless claims. Maul also spared Kenobi's life before. Quit being childish to reach your faulty and biased conclusions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You're ignoring them being past their primes, ignoring their canon fights, ignoring Maul's accolades, etc. and making baseless claims. Maul also spared Kenobi's life before. Quit being childish to reach your faulty and biased conclusions.

http://fangirlblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Dave-Filoni.jpg

I don't have a bias at all. Just calling it like I see it.

Filoni disagrees with you and explains himself regarding this duel. You're completely and utterly wrong. Maul is a perfect embodiment of the Sith and I embrace who he is as a character. Most of you don't even really grasp what makes these chapters tick and who they truly are.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Filoni disagrees with you and explains himself regarding this duel. You're completely and utterly wrong. Maul is a perfect embodiment of the Sith and I embrace who he is as a character. Most of you don't even really grasp what makes these chapters tick and who they truly are.

You don't even try to be unbiased in your assessment

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I mean I get it artistically but this is blatantly contradicted by the canon. Anakin vs. Obi-Wan took place between two extremely talented swordsmen who knew each other the best and its the longest fight in the mythos.
as someone who's blinded to hell by rots nolstagia, I'd say the length of the fight detracted from it tbh. Yoda vs sidious deserved more screen time also

Originally posted by quanchi112
Filoni disagrees with you and explains himself regarding this duel. You're completely and utterly wrong. Maul is a perfect embodiment of the Sith and I embrace who he is as a character. Most of you don't even really grasp what makes these chapters tick and who they truly are.
Feloni implied that both kenobi and maul progressed as swordsman. Force wise maul was collecting holocrons and gaining knowledge and new abilities. There's absolutely no reason to think maul or kenobi are out of his primes.

Even feat wise, maul should logically be capable of anything force wise his previous incarnations were capable of.

And saber wise Maul's performance vs tcw kenobi was significantly inferior, despite favorable circumstances, vs his performance vs ahsoka who herself was a challenge for vader in his prime.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You don't even try to be unbiased in your assessment Filoni agrees as well. I'm as objective as it gets. At no point do I ever ignore a single showing ffs.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Filoni disagrees and implied the opposite. I'm as objective as it gets. At no point do I ever ignore a single showing if it isn't biased towards maul.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Concession accepted.

Yes kenobi beat maul because he had better control of his emotions. But your "His skills have eroded" is baseless and feloni has implied the opposite.The reasons given for the shortness of their fight compared to their previous duels is
A. Them having dueled each other multiple times prior to rebels]
B. Them both being very good fighters(compared to their tcw incarnations who had lengthy duels)
None of what you posted changes that this version of maul was superior as a duelist or that logically given he was collecting artifacts/holocrons, gaining knowledge and has showcased new abilities that he would be more powerful.

Emotionally broken or not, this is maul in his prime.

Kenobi being able to control his emotions and focus himself makes him the better fighter. And Maul not being able to defeat that kenobi just reinforces that kenobi, due to his emotional state surpassed maul.

This is still prime maul and prime kenobi,
what you've posted changes nothing

Originally posted by quanchi112
In his prime he'd annihilate Vader who was never the same mobility wise when he was condemned to the suit.
Lol. Maul is inferior to Vader, as well as Kenobi, just accept it.

SoD Maul >> Rebels Maul, tbh.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
SoD Maul >> Rebels Maul, tbh.
Probably, yeah. There's nothing that really proves it though

Just pretty obvious, tbh. SoD Maul is at the peak of his game, establishing a vast criminal empire, choking out Kenobi, and trading blows with Palpatine, whereas Rebels Maul is constantly performing poorly and is literally insane.

To say Maul's at his peak in Rebels is a massive disservice to what he accomplished in TCW, tbh. To be honest, I'd favor TPM Maul over Rebels any day as well.

Agreed

His performance against the inquisitors was good, but then he got humiliated by Kanan and Kenobi, so... yeah

Even his performance vs the Inquisitors were lackluster, tbh.

He was even struggling to maintain hold over the Seventh Sister.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Even his performance vs the Inquisitors were lackluster, tbh.

He was even struggling to maintain hold over the Seventh Sister. really? Please elaborate

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Yes kenobi beat maul because he had better control of his emotions. But your "His skills have eroded" is baseless and feloni has implied the opposite.The reasons given for the shortness of their fight compared to their previous duels is
A. Them having dueled each other multiple times prior to rebels]
B. Them both being very good fighters(compared to their tcw incarnations who had lengthy duels)
None of what you posted changes that this version of maul was superior as a duelist or that logically given he was collecting artifacts/holocrons, gaining knowledge and has showcased new abilities that he would be more powerful.

Emotionally broken or not, this is maul in his prime.

Kenobi being able to control his emotions and focus himself makes him the better fighter. And Maul not being able to defeat that kenobi just reinforces that kenobi, due to his emotional state surpassed maul.

This is still prime maul and prime kenobi,
what you've posted changes nothing Lucas said years back that these Jedi and Sith in Vader and Kenobi were well past their primes. The prequels showed us how capable and how athletic these guys were at their peaks. That hasn't changed. We see his skills have eroded since he's been an old master. He's still a great warrior but he's not as finely tuned or as young as he used to be. It's common sense these guys don't live 1000's of years and their bodies get older. He goes by the name Old Master for ****s sake.

Gaining knowledge has to do with wisdom it doesn't magically alter your body or make you younger. What new abilities or new powers increase his physical acumen of his youth. I mean this is very easy to dissect. Dooku grew in the force and was an older man but just as all of these guys they get past their primes but they can still be formidable. His body has diminshed just as Yoda's. They may lean on the force and still be quite formidable but their past their physical apex.

We see the new Disney comics illustrate Maul is in his prime. That's the era he was at his physical peak. This is common sense and Filoni's words also back this up. Maul is broken at this point and Kenobi has everything to fight for serving up the best case scenario for Ben and the worst case for Maul in their fight.

In this moment out of their primes but we've seen other moments where Maul was handing him his ass. At their primes Maul is a cut above him.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Lol. Maul is inferior to Vader, as well as Kenobi, just accept it. **** no. Maul at the top of his game would run circles around the slower and slow as dogshit Vader in a duel.

Lmao ok

Originally posted by Rebel95
Lmao ok You know it's true. Vader is a lot slower and mobili matters in a fight. Maul was physically gifted and quite agile in combat. One of his greatest strengths would exploit Vader's most glaring weakness.

What's your next excuse?

https://youtu.be/g41iaKQAhWg

1. Bringing up outdated continuity doesn't prove anything

2. Gaining knowledge is a clear indication of power growth. Maul physically clearly doesn't mean much when he's improved as a fighter. Fleoni has attributed the shortness of their fight to both improving as fighters. Maul being superior to his tcw incarnation isn't debatable. And given that he's had 15 years to grow in power where he's kept active

3, Maul was also less powerful and implied as the superior fighter. His mental state doesn't change this.

4. Maul only handed kenobi "his ass" in sith hunters when he amped. On the turtle tanker he was losing to an injured and mentally off balance kenobi prior to using dun moch and on florrum he was losing to kenobi depite the help of his brother and kenobi using a secondary style. Not to mention this was tcw rather than rots kenobi.

That's great and all until Vader just ragdolls him with the force

Originally posted by Rebel95
What's your next excuse? I deal in logic and common sense. You apparently deal in self delusions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He's more formidable in combat and has the skills to especially exploit Vader's diminshed mobility. The sad part here is that Vader was actually more crippled in Legends.

Originally posted by Rebel95
That's great and all until Vader just ragdolls him with the force Based on him doing so to quite accomplished force user ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I deal in logic and common sense. You apparently deal in self delusions.
Yeah I'm delusional, coming from the guy that thinks Maul would beat Vader even though Maul himself straight up says he can't defeat Vader alone Classic

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Bringing up outdated continuity doesn't prove anything

2. Gaining knowledge is a clear indication of power growth. Maul physically clearly doesn't mean much when he's improved as a fighter. Fleoni has attributed the shortness of their fight to both improving as fighters. Maul being superior to his tcw incarnation isn't debatable. And given that he's had 15 years to grow in power where he's kept active

3, Maul was also less powerful and implied as the superior fighter. His mental state doesn't change this.

4. Maul only handed kenobi "his ass" in sith hunters when he amped. On the turtle tanker he was losing to an injured and mentally off balance kenobi prior to using dun moch and on florrum he was losing to kenobi depite the help of his brother and kenobi using a secondary style. Not to mention this was tcw rather than rots kenobi. 1. What outdated continuity ?

2. No, it's an indication of wisdom gained. Based off what has he improved as a fighter in rebels ? Provide the quote. So surviving means you grow in power. You need the evidence to prove his power has increased or the reference in the show. You have nothing but your idiotic opinion as a source.

3. Based off what ?? Your mental state is very important in a sporting event, fight, or any type of competitive endeavor. Are you retarded ?

4. He wasn't amped. Prove it. He also handed him his ass prior to his arrogance in APM. Maul bfrd him which is a victory according to forum rules.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Yeah I'm delusional, coming from the guy that thinks Maul would beat Vader even though Maul himself straight up says he can't defeat Vader alone Classic Maul was lying to manipulate Ezra and he was out of his prime. If he really needed the others he wouldn't have turned on them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul was lying to manipulate Ezra and he was out of his prime. If he really needed the others he wouldn't have turned on them.
Prove he was lying
Not to mention Vader toyed with Kanan and Ezra, whereas Maul was humiliated by Kanan alone.

Maul straight up admitting his inferiority and the quote from the author of SoD should be more than enough to show that Vader>Maul. Sorry Maul isn't as great as you wish he was

Guys, never forget the canon story of the scientist who disabled Vader into a useless sack of sh!t with the push of a remote button.

I recall Vader willing his machinery back to life in one of his most epic moments of his career directly thereafter?

Originally posted by Rebel95
Prove he was lying
Not to mention Vader toyed with Kanan and Ezra, whereas Maul was humiliated by Kanan alone.

Maul straight up admitting his inferiority and the quote from the author of SoD should be more than enough to show that Vader>Maul. Sorry Maul isn't as great as you wish he was If he needed them to contend with Vader why would he turn on them before getting out of the vicinity of Vader.

Maul blinded him and had him dead to rights. Tano intervened. Maul was arrogant and fell off without any injuries.

He lied to Ezra and his actions pretty much confirmed that you dope. Maul is great and him surviving decades on his own without any tried and true allies shows how much willpower the man has. There will never be another Maul. Ever.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I recall Vader willing his machinery back to life in one of his most epic moments of his career directly thereafter? He had a temporary surge of rage to get him back on his feet. Point is, he's a cripple at the end of the day with that control panel so ****1ng exposed. Maul wouldn't have a problem landing a precision strike on it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If he needed them to contend with Vader why would he turn on them before getting out of the vicinity of Vader.

Maul blinded him and had him dead to rights. Tano intervened. Maul was arrogant and fell off without any injuries.

He lied to Ezra and his actions pretty much confirmed that you dope. Maul is great and him surviving decades on his own without any tried and true allies shows how much willpower the man has. There will never be another Maul. Ever.
Because fighting Vader wasn't his plan. His plan was to retrieve the holocron, and to do so he needed to get rid of them.

He blinded him with a cheap shot, yeah. No he didn't fall off, he was thrown off by Kanan. Lol

No he didn't and his actions don't confirm anything. Yeah he's great and has a lot of will power, he's one of my favorite characters as well. But the fact of the matter is he's not as great as you'd like him to be

Originally posted by Kurk
Maul wouldn't have a problem landing a precision strike on it.
Yeah just like all the other people Vader's fought have had such an easy time doing that

Originally posted by Rebel95
Because fighting Vader wasn't his plan. His plan was to retrieve the holocron, and to do so he needed to get rid of them.

He blinded him with a cheap shot, yeah. No he didn't fall off, he was thrown off by Kanan. Lol

No he didn't and his actions don't confirm anything. Yeah he's great and has a lot of will power, he's one of my favorite characters as well. But the fact of the matter is he's not as great as you'd like him to be So he lied to them about needing them against Vader. You just disagree with my reason this you agree he still uti lately lied so you can't take a certain flawed statement any part of it as a true indicator of his opinion.

Kanan has access to the force and was dead to rights. Tano has to intervene to save his life.

It's funny people claim Kenobi beat Maul when Maul threw him out of the vicinity with the force but still maintain Kanan won. You're a hypocrite. Maul already had him beat and was arrogant as I have said.

At his height of power he was deemed a rival to Palpatine.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So he lied to them about needing them against Vader. You just disagree with my reason this you agree he still uti lately lied so you can't take a certain flawed statement any part of it as a true indicator of his opinion.

Kanan has access to the force and was dead to rights. Tano has to intervene to save his life.

It's funny people claim Kenobi beat Maul when Maul threw him out of the vicinity with the force but still maintain Kanan won. You're a hypocrite. Maul already had him beat and was arrogant as I have said.

At his height of power he was deemed a rival to Palpatine.
What are you even talking about?

Again, not really sure what you're talking about. Maul cheapshotted Kanan and then got humiliated. It's as simple as that

Yet still got his ass whooped and brother killed by Sidious. So that really doesn't mean anything

Originally posted by Rebel95
What are you even talking about?

Again, not really sure what you're talking about. Maul cheapshotted Kanan and then got humiliated. It's as simple as that

Yet still got his ass whooped and brother killed by Sidious. So that really doesn't mean anything Maul manipulating Ezra by telling him he needs those a,lies to deal with Vader.

The force allows you to determine certain actions with precog. Maul is a bad guy he isn't going to scream here I come before he tries to eliminate someone in his way.


He still took on the most powerful dark sider of that era by himself. That means a lot. You wanting to say ignore it while jumping ahead decades to a broken and lost Maul is just more of the same. You're biased.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul manipulating Ezra by telling him he needs those a,lies to deal with Vader.

The force allows you to determine certain actions with precog. Maul is a bad guy he isn't going to scream here I come before he tries to eliminate someone in his way.


He still took on the most powerful dark sider of that era by himself. That means a lot. You wanting to say ignore it while jumping ahead decades to a broken and lost Maul is just more of the same. You're biased.
What?

Yeah I understand that,but it was still a cheapshot and he still got humiliated by Kanan.

I agree it was impressive that he was able to fight Sidious even for a short amount of time, but ultimately he was still no match for him. I'm not really seeing how I'm biased, especially when you're the one coming up with all the excuses for your favorite character. I'm just pointing out the obvious lol

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Ventress can beat Maul by outsmarting him... yet the much less intelligent Savage matched her pretty closely in their duel without being outsmarted? I guess Maul is stupider than even Savage.

The scene definitely represents the evolution of both Kenobi and Maul as swordsmen. The scene does make sense, and there is a lot of background information that explains that.

Now, Maul before his injuries inflicted by Kenobi had a far different mindset than he did during the clone wars and rebels. During the duel of fates he was a calculating fighter. He controlled the fight, letting Qui-Gon lead him to the generator room. He allowed his adversary to do so, in order to weaken Jinn since he wouldn't be able to use Ataru properly in such a confined space. This combined with Ataru's weak defence allowed Maul to then go on the offensive once Jinn tired and dissect his defences.
After he lost his legs to Kenobi, Maul changed as a fighter. Sure he still remained a Juyo specialist, but instead of attempting to strategise during fights, he instead approached fights with blind fury.

Kenobi was an Ataru specialist but began studying Soresu after the duel of fates to make up for Ataru's main weakness, defence. He later mastered Soresu to its highest degree, which became his primary form. Windu called him the reigning master of Soresu.

Masters of Soresu have never had their lightsaber defences broken, but it is theorised that only Juyo could penetrate the defences of a Soresu master. Then again, Kenobi during the time of this duel did not practice much.

For the duel itself, I will describe what happens. Obi-Wan brandishes his lightsaber and puts himself in a Soresu stance. Maul then changes his stance twice. On the next change, Kenobi does something curious. He changes his stance to that of Ataru, the exact stance Jinn used against Maul, and the form Jinn and Kenobi himself used against Maul during duel of the fates.

Maul then attacks, instead of a defensive strike, Kenobi actually swings his saber to meet Maul's swing. An Ataru response instead of a Soresu response. After the second strike, which Kenobi aptly defends, Maul attempts the move he used on Jinn: moving his hilt up in order to stun, following with a killing blow. Kenobi however cuts the hilt of Maul's saber before he can finish the move.

My theory is that Kenobi adopted an Ataru stance in order to trick Maul into thinking he could pull off the same trick on Kenobi as he did Jinn. The fact that Maul did not think about what he was doing but instead relied on blind rage only made this worse for him.


That's my two cents on the fight.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Because fighting Vader wasn't his plan. His plan was to retrieve the holocron, and to do so he needed to get rid of them.




Dude all you have to tell him is that Kenobi Owned him, so there's no reason whatsoever that Vader wouldn't beat him down hard. Given this same Kenobi gave it everything he had, but simply could not defeat Vader.

Ergo Maul spoke the truth about being unable to fight Vader.

ANH Vader >/= ANH Kenobi >>> Rebels Maul. Shown clearly in Canon. End of. After that just laugh at him and let him troll on.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Dude all you have to tell him is that Kenobi Owned him, so there's no reason whatsoever that Vader wouldn't beat him down hard. Given this same Kenobi gave it everything he had, but simply could not defeat Vader.

Ergo Maul spoke the truth about being unable to fight Vader.

ANH Vader >/= ANH Kenobi >>> Rebels Maul. Shown clearly in Canon. End of. After that just laugh at him and let him troll on. Kenobi is an entirely different character with multiple fights and experience with each other. Kenobi didn't want to best Vader and already defeated a prime Rots Vader. Kenobi fought a broken Maul outside of his prime. Maul was well past his prime in rebels. It's always been the case. I tried to tell you idiots before but your retardation always gets in the way.

Kenobi matched Vader blow for blow and only allowed him the win. Vader didn't earn it. Pitiful considering Kenobi ****ed him up all those years ago and wrecked his former pupils body.

Originally posted by Rebel95
What?

Yeah I understand that,but it was still a cheapshot and he still got humiliated by Kanan.

I agree it was impressive that he was able to fight Sidious even for a short amount of time, but ultimately he was still no match for him. I'm not really seeing how I'm biased, especially when you're the one coming up with all the excuses for your favorite character. I'm just pointing out the obvious lol Incorrect. Vader was knocked on his ass by Kanan and Ezra.

Maul blinded Kanan. Vader grazed his shoulder. Maul is well past his prime but still met up with Tano and was completely fine and she got the better of Vader.

We see only the elites can match Sheev for the amount of time Maul did. You cannot take that away. Maul is elite but was past his prime in the rebels era but was still elite just not as elite.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Incorrect. Vader was knocked on his ass by Kanan and Ezra.

Maul blinded Kanan. Vader grazed his shoulder. Maul is well past his prime but still met up with Tano and was completely fine and she got the better of Vader.

We see only the elites can match Sheev for the amount of time Maul did. You cannot take that away. Maul is elite but was past his prime in the rebels era but was still elite just not as elite.
Vader tossed them around like nothing and made them run away because they knew they had no chance. Maul on the other hand was humiliated by Kanan alone. These are the facts.

Maul blinded Kanan by taking him by surprise, Vader struck Kanan's shoulder in the middle of a duel while also toying with Ezra. Maul was unable to beat Tano, whereas Vader drove her back the entire time and likely killed her. These are also the facts.

Maul fought Sidious alone for like 10 seconds and then got ragdolled lmao

Vader's superiority over Maul is flat out stated by the author of SoD and by Maul himself. Get over it

Originally posted by Rebel95


Vader's superiority over Maul is flat out stated by the author of SoD and by Maul himself. Get over it




Also confirmed by Filoni himself, and Witwer himself.

Not to mention the huge disparity between Maul and Old Ben is proof enough.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Vader tossed them around like nothing and made them run away because they knew they had no chance. Maul on the other hand was humiliated by Kanan alone. These are the facts.

Maul blinded Kanan by taking him by surprise, Vader struck Kanan's shoulder in the middle of a duel while also toying with Ezra. Maul was unable to beat Tano, whereas Vader drove her back the entire time and likely killed her. These are also the facts.

Maul fought Sidious alone for like 10 seconds and then got ragdolled lmao

Vader's superiority over Maul is flat out stated by the author of SoD and by Maul himself. Get over it Vader had a huge thing dropped on him. He didn't want that. Maul blinded him. Vader failed in that episode twice. That's a fact. Maul had a more profound effect on Ezra than Vader. That's another fact.

Vader had his helmet ****ed up by her. He limped off at the end of the season. He looked defeated because he was. Maul took a tie fighter and was alone. Vader ran back to the empire as he always does after another humiliating defeat. Vader was also unable to defeat Tano save he took a critical hit. We also see her walk away at the end of the episode. Your ignorance is appalling but expected.

Maul lied to manipulate Ezra and he was well past his prime. He was broken and lost at the time of the rebels era. Maul's will is greater than Vader's but his force power isn't. I've never contested this. Maul in his prime would beat the shit out of Vader. His agility and skill with a saber is too much for the diminished Vader.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader had a huge thing dropped on him. He didn't want that. Maul blinded him. Vader failed in that episode twice. That's a fact. Maul had a more profound effect on Ezra than Vader. That's another fact.

Vader had his helmet ****ed up by her. He limped off at the end of the season. He looked defeated because he was. Maul took a tie fighter and was alone. Vader ran back to the empire as he always does after another humiliating defeat. Vader was also unable to defeat Tano save he took a critical hit. We also see her walk away at the end of the episode. Your ignorance is appalling but expected.

Maul lied to manipulate Ezra and he was well past his prime. He was broken and lost at the time of the rebels era. Maul's will is greater than Vader's but his force power isn't. I've never contested this. Maul in his prime would beat the shit out of Vader. His agility and skill with a saber is too much for the diminished Vader.
Maul was thrown off a cliff by Kanan. That's a fact. Kanan and Ezra gave everything they had and were still unable to stop Vader. That's a fact.

Vader was caught off guard by Ahsoka and only limped off because of the massive explosion which would probably kill just about anyone else.

It was even said in an interview that the original plan was to have Vader kill Maul, but they decided to have Kenobi do it. You've failed to provide any reasons why Maul would win other than just saying Vader's slow, lmao. You're opinion doesn't matter compared to the author of SoD, filoni, and Maul himself. Nice try though.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. What outdated continuity ?

2. No, it's an indication of wisdom gained. Based off what has he improved as a fighter in rebels ? Provide the quote. So surviving means you grow in power. You need the evidence to prove his power has increased or the reference in the show. You have nothing but your idiotic opinion as a source.

3. Based off what ?? Your mental state is very important in a sporting event, fight, or any type of competitive endeavor. Are you retarded ?

4. He wasn't amped. Prove it. He also handed him his ass prior to his arrogance in APM. Maul bfrd him which is a victory according to forum rules.
1. Lucas's intention of ben and vader being post prime doesn't apply to new canon, just like maul's original purpose of just being a skilled assasin has been replaced and is outdated.

2. https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=7m33s
"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see a prolonged lightsaber fight. But I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth "
sum up:
One of the reasons for the fight being so short(in addition to them having fought multiple times) compared to their previous duels is feloni wanted to show growth and that kenobi and maul are very good fighters(compared to their previous versions). This along with them having fought multiple times was the reason why the fight was so short. In addition to this we have maul having 15 years to grow in power, showcasing new force abilities on a scope we've never seen before, and witwer's own comments(which pertained to how he was as a fighter).

Maul being emotionally broken(as sith often are) and kenobi winning because he was able to anticipate what kenobi did and having better emotional control(you know, quintessential jedi) doesn't change that this is maul in his prime.


3. kenobi being emotionally better, more focused, and being able to anticipate him better isn't circumstantial. It makes kenobi the better fighter and why "(maul) isn't beating that". BTW, maul being mentally unhinged isn't something that wasn't there as of tcw as deathsentence should make clear.

4. TPM kenobi(and tpm maul) weren't in their prime. And maul being amped is based on maul dreaming about kenobi cutting him in half before their fight and him screaming kenobi when he wakes up.

Also, maul losing to a oneness kanan doesn't remotely serve as valid eveidence that he declined(unless you want to accept tcw maul struggling with someone who lost to tcw ahsoka and getting tackled by a dog as valid eveidence). Bringing up Maul's tcw tk feats doesn't help anything as maul, having grown and being active for 15 years would logically be more powerful and capable of surpassing. On the other hand Maul's ability to mentally fck with force users from across the galaxy(using a force bond) create visions of himself is crap tcw maul was never shown as capable of doing.

And dueling wise, trying to say his performances vs tcw kenobi somehow place him above a version of maul capable of matching a challenge to vader in his prime is laughable.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Maul was thrown off a cliff by Kanan. That's a fact. Kanan and Ezra gave everything they had and were still unable to stop Vader. That's a fact.

Vader was caught off guard by Ahsoka and only limped off because of the massive explosion which would probably kill just about anyone else.

It was even said in an interview that the original plan was to have Vader kill Maul, but they decided to have Kenobi do it. You've failed to provide any reasons why Maul would win other than just saying Vader's slow, lmao. You're opinion doesn't matter compared to the author of SoD, filoni, and Maul himself. Nice try though. After Maul had him beaten and was about to kill him. Maul was uninjured. That's also a fact. Kanan and Ezra still got the better of him. They escaped. Vader had no impact on either whereas Maul psychologically affected Ezra while he blinded Kanan. Your perception isn't a fact.

Vader has precog and decades of experience. Boohoo. He's shit since she's his former student and he was completely caught off guard despite knowing she hasn't been killed. It didn't kill Tano or anyone else of note you dummy. What's more you can't claim any of it struck Vader besides the fact he had a suit protecting him unlike Tano.

Yes, they decided to axe that so it isn't a fact. It was shit and never became canon you degenerative brain disease.

Maul's quickness is a huge advantage he has over Vader. I can give you multiple examples of Vader being too slow to react and have already listed some examples. Again another person's opinion but this is a theoretical matchup outside of canon. Maul wins. Vader is slow and Maul is quick. Pretty obvious winner here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
After Maul had him beaten and was about to kill him. Maul was uninjured. That's also a fact. Kanan and Ezra still got the better of him. They escaped. Vader had no impact on either whereas Maul psychologically affected Ezra while he blinded Kanan. Your perception isn't a fact.

Vader has precog and decades of experience. Boohoo. He's shit since she's his former student and he was completely caught off guard despite knowing she hasn't been killed. It didn't kill Tano or anyone else of note you dummy. What's more you can't claim any of it struck Vader besides the fact he had a suit protecting him unlike Tano.

Yes, they decided to axe that so it isn't a fact. It was shit and never became canon you degenerative brain disease.

Maul's quickness is a huge advantage he has over Vader. I can give you multiple examples of Vader being too slow to react and have already listed some examples. Again another person's opinion but this is a theoretical matchup outside of canon. Maul wins. Vader is slow and Maul is quick. Pretty obvious winner here.
Difference is Kanan alone got the better of Maul by throwing him off a cliff, whereas Kanan and Ezra had to run away from Vader. Simple as that.


None of what you say matters since Vader killed Ben Kenobi and Maul was killed by him in 3 strikes. Go cry about it loser.

It still shows that the creators of star wars have Vader>Maul. Instead they decided to have a slightly weaker person kill Maul. Sucks for you and your precious Maul lmao

Sadly this is all your opinion which doesn't mean shit. Go live in your fantasy world crybaby

Originally posted by Rebel95
Difference is Kanan alone got the better of Maul by throwing him off a cliff, whereas Kanan and Ezra had to run away from Vader. Simple as that.


None of what you say matters since Vader killed Ben Kenobi and Maul was killed by him in 3 strikes. Go cry about it loser.

It still shows that the creators of star wars have Vader>Maul. Instead they decided to have a slightly weaker person kill Maul. Sucks for you and your precious Maul lmao

Sadly this is all your opinion which doesn't mean shit. Go live in your fantasy world crybaby For the reasons I had already explained. Kanan and Ezra were also fleeing the empire not just Vader. He wasn't alone. Vader was knocked down and not near a cliff. Maul left more of an impact on the two than shitty ass Vader.

Due to Maul being a broken person at the moment whereas Kenobi was sure of who he was. As per Filoni. You seem upset since Maul has routinely got the better of Kenobi whereas Vader only did so after Kenobi dropped his guard.

Kenobi was a true Jedi unlike Vader who was the emperors ***** for two decades. Maul was past his prime and broken at the time of his death.

I posted Filoni's own words and my opinion is supported by common sense, facts, and evidence. Yours isn't based off anything other than retardation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
For the reasons I had already explained. Kanan and Ezra were also fleeing the empire not just Vader. He wasn't alone. Vader was knocked down and not near a cliff. Maul left more of an impact on the two than shitty ass Vader.

Due to Maul being a broken person at the moment whereas Kenobi was sure of who he was. As per Filoni. You seem upset since Maul has routinely got the better of Kenobi whereas Vader only did so after Kenobi dropped his guard.

Kenobi was a true Jedi unlike Vader who was the emperors ***** for two decades. Maul was past his prime and broken at the time of his death.

I posted Filoni's own words and my opinion is supported by common sense, facts, and evidence. Yours isn't based off anything other than retardation.
My "opinion" is fact. Vader's superiority over Maul has been stated by Filoni, Witwer, the author of SoD, and by Maul himself. Stop making excuses for your precious Maul and get over it loser

I don't think anyone's really ever thought Maul as being superior to Vader, pre or post suit.

Originally posted by Rebel95
My "opinion" is fact. Vader's superiority over Maul has been stated by Filoni, Witwer, the author of SoD, and by Maul himself. Stop making excuses for your precious Maul and get over it loser That is his opinion which isn't canon. His opinion over canon material matters not hypothetical matchups. Again based off the evidence Maul wins. He's a lot quicker than Vader who doesn't have one legit win over any legit Jedi master in a fair fight. Vader was handily crushed by Luke in Rotj and Kenobi dropped his guard. Kenobi is out of his prime as well. Kenobi in his prime beat Vader in his prime.

Originally posted by Robtard
I don't think anyone's really ever thought Maul as being superior to Vader, pre or post suit.
Because he's not. Quan is just delusional

Originally posted by Rebel95
Because he's not. Quan is just delusional The point of the ot people seem to love is this is an era with all the Jedi and Sith out of their primes. It's an era dominated by Palpatine as the emperor's stranglehold on the galaxy after he wiped the Galaxy clean of all but a few Jedi. The one Jedi we see enter his prime is Luke and he handily crushes Vader once he pisses him off. The fact people don't grasp the obvious is once again astonishing. Lucas made it clear to those with functioning brain stems.

Honestly, selectively using "out of their prime" to excuse a character's lose is silly. Fav character's lose; it happens, people just need to accept it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Honestly, selectively using "out of their prime" to excuse a character's lose is silly. Fav character's lose; it happens, people just need to accept it. I used the guy who created the fights own words as well. Both guys were out of their primes. In their primes Maul was superior. Maul was broken and lost. Kenobi knew who he was in this moment which made it ideal for him in this situation. I accept the facts and the reasons for them. You need to accept the reasoning. It's been provided so stop avoiding it.

@quanchi, didn't see your reply
1. Because we have it being explicitly stated that vader was in his prime and that kenobi grew as a fighter and strengthened his connection to the force, so obviously that doesn't apply here.
2. So Kenobi is>maul because he's emotionally stronger and maul can't beat kenobi? Your speculation doesn't invalidate feloni's own confirmation that maul has progressed as a duelist. A quote which refers to kenobi and maul as of that "specific moment" where kenobi outdueled. The maul who faced kenobi in rebels was better than the maul who faced kenobi in sod. But clearly, kenobi's superior emotional state and willingness to move on allowed him to progress beyond maul.

You is smart bruh

3. As the quote you ignored shows, maul got better over time despite his emotional state.

4. Kenobi was better in rots, and as feloni has made clear reached his prime in rebels. And I'm talking about sith hunters.
Also, what? How does maul deciding to gang up on kenobi and have his brother ambush him indicate anything impressive about maul's abilities? Maul needing dun moch despite having his brother help him ambush and beat him up before hand to outmatch kenobi(who was beating him beforehand) doesn't show maul as superior. Unless of course you want to concede that tpm kenobi is>tpm maul.

5. As a duelist? As a duelist maul was first losing to tcw kenobi despite ambushing and ganging up on him with the help of his brother. Then on florrum maul briefly fought evenly with kenobi(an engagement which ended with kenobi landing a kick on maul that maul took several seconds to recover from) and then had kenobi9after focusing himself) simultaneously outduel maul and his brother while making use of an unfavored maul.

Why is either of the above more impressive than his performance vs ahsoka in rebels?

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
@quanchi, didn't see your reply
1. Because we have it being explicitly stated that vader was in his prime and that kenobi grew as a fighter and strengthened his connection to the force, so obviously that doesn't apply here.Provide the sources. Kenobi did strengthen his connection to the force but his skills and his body has declined. Do you know how old age works ?


Kenobi of this era and in this moment due to him facing off against a broken Maul. Nothing specifically states that conclusion. You just continue to say so despite the fact he's lost. All that matters is the moment of the duel. It's clear though to anyone thinking he's past his prime as is Kenobi.

He learned new things but that doesn't mean he increased his skills as a duelist or that his psyche was in the best possible state going in.

Provide the quote this is Kenobi in his prime. You don't seem to understand what words mean. So I guess Qui and Kenobi against Maul is fair but when he has an ally it's unfair. Maul divided and conquered until he let up to taunt.

Maul bfrd Kenobi. In the previous fight Kenobi had to flee as Maul was unbalancing him.

False. You're lying. I already explained this in the previous point. Quit lying. I want you to go about the task of proving your points not continuously restating them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Provide the sources. Kenobi did strengthen his connection to the force but his skills and his body has declined. Do you know how old age works ?


Kenobi of this era and in this moment due to him facing off against a broken Maul. Nothing specifically states that conclusion. You just continue to say so despite the fact he's lost. All that matters is the moment of the duel. It's clear though to anyone thinking he's past his prime as is Kenobi.

He learned new things but that doesn't mean he increased his skills as a duelist or that his psyche was in the best possible state going in.

Provide the quote this is Kenobi in his prime. You don't seem to understand what words mean. So I guess Qui and Kenobi against Maul is fair but when he has an ally it's unfair. Maul divided and conquered until he let up to taunt.

Maul bfrd Kenobi. In the previous fight Kenobi had to flee as Maul was unbalancing him.

False. You're lying. I already explained this in the previous point. Quit lying. I want you to go about the task of proving your points not continuously restating them.
For refrence, here's the quote:

https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=7m33s
"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see a prolonged lightsaber fight. But I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth "
1. "this is vader of his prime" -pablo hidalgo. "Kenobi has strenghened his connection to the force"- Feloni and off course the quote i just provided you shows kenobi improved as a duelist despite any physical degradation.

2. The context of maul and kenobi showing "growth" as "very good duelists" is referring to the moment where kenobi and maul fought.

3. What? The quote i provided from feloni doesn't say anything about "new abilities". It refers to kenobi and maul's "growth" as fighters as a reaspn the fight was so short compared to their earlier "prolonged" saber fights.
4. Kenobi is more powerful and has grown as a duelist, rebels kenobi is prime kenobi. And I never argued tpm kenobi was>tpm maul. How is that relevant to their tcw incarnations

And yes, maul was able to unbalance a kenobi who he and oppress had physically wrecked and ambushed. Doesn't change taht when they were actually clashing sabers, maul was taken out of the fight by kenobi twice(saved by kenobi decidning to save ventress from oppress), and that kenobi was able to land several kicks, retrieve his saber and even drive maul back initally when unbalanced. All maul did in the actual duel was land a flurry of kicks on kenobi(an act of desperation resulting from kenobi slamming maul's blade to the ground and leaving him defenseless). A flurry of kicks kenobi instantly recovered from. That fight definitely didn't show maul as superior.
5.
It happened, your head canon aside

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
For refrence, here's the quote:

https://youtu.be/8eIZsJsck7A?t=7m33s
"The actual duel is very short, how did you come to the conclusion it had to come this way?...(feloni) If you talk to a lot of people who sword fight, they'll tell you people who are very good don't have long fights. So that scene, its a homage to the 7th samurai. I think on one level people would be excited to see a prolonged lightsaber fight. But I just never really saw the confrontation that way because to do that is to say the characters don't have growth "


Ok, you don't prove either character is in their prime just growth. Not the same thing.

A source not just you saying he said Vader is in his prime.

I agree Kenobi is stronger in the force and has become wiser but his physical skills and body have declined. Quit repeating yourself.
That doesn't mean in their primes that means they have grown with experience. Their skills and bodies are worse for the wear.
None of that proves they are in their primes. He has evolved, matured, and is more wise but his physical skills, movement, and dueling has declined. just because someone grows as an athlete doesn't mean they are superior to their younger versions who have more testosterone and physical skills. It's like saying Deion Sanders evolved as a db which is true but his skills have diminshed as he can no longer rely on his physical prowess to the same extent.

False, maul was winning. Kenobi quit the fight and was being thrown off by Maul's head games. Maul landed a kick on Palpatine. I guarantee you'll abandon the same logic when I use it in Maul's favor against the Emperor. Yes, since Kenobi retreated and fled.

What also occurred is the new comics series says Maul's prime. It uses the same word prime when you have done anything but. Evolve or growth doesn't mean prime despite your obstinance.

Feloni is referring to them as swordsman. if they've progressed as swordsman, then that is considering any physical degradement.

Please provide the quote or better, a link to the quote about maul's prime? Because the new comic series is about pre-tpm maul. Unless of course this is maul's in charater opinion which is menaingless because this is well before rebels chronologically

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Feloni is referring to them as duelists. if they've progressed as fighters, then that is considering any physical degradement.

Please provide the quote or better, a link to the quote about maul's prime? Because the new comic series is about pre-tpm maul That doesn't mean they are in their physical primes.

Will you concede the point if I do some searching ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
That doesn't mean they are in their physical primes.

Will you concede the point if I do some searching ?
1. Whether they're in their physical primes doesn't matter. As duelists, they are in their primes and that includes physical abilities or potential physical degradement, So combatively this is still prime maul and kenobi.

2. Sure, assuming this quote of yours actually says what you say it says

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Whether they're in their physical primes doesn't matter. As duelists, they are in their primes and that includes physical abilities or potential physical degradement, So combatively this is still prime maul and kenobi.

2. Sure, assuming this quote of yours actually says what you say it says So you dismiss the very meaning of prime when we read Filoni's words describing maul's state regarding this fight. He was lost and broken and you think this is his prime ? You just destroyed your own argument.

Now it isn't necessary based on your own criteria.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you dismiss the very meaning of prime when we read Filoni's words describing maul's state regarding this fight. He was lost and broken and you think this is his prime ? You just destroyed your own argument.

Now it isn't necessary based on your own criteria.
1. Kenobi and maul don't have to be in their physical primes to be in their primes as duelists overall. Their abilities as fighters include their physical abilitites so feloni's statement is considering any potential physical degradement.

2. So the quote doesn't exist? concession accepted

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Kenobi and maul don't have to be in their physical primes to be in their primes as duelists overall. Their abilities as fighters include their physical abilitites so feloni's statement is considering any potential physical degradement.

2. So the quote doesn't exist? concession accepted So his psyche and his physical abilities don't matter. Do you even listen to yourself ? And no his statement doesn't specify physical state at all.

It does but I do not feel like searching especially when you just neutered your own argument.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So his psyche and his physical abilities don't matter. Do you even listen to yourself ? And no his statement doesn't specify physical state at all.

It does but I do not feel like searching especially when you just neutered your own argument.
1. Why does it have to specify their physical state? Physical states/mental are a part of hwo good kenobi and maul are as fighters.

2. Concession accepted

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. Why does it have to specify their physical state? Physical states/mental are a part of hwo good kenobi and maul are as fighters.

2. Concession accepted 1. Because that clearly diminshed. Experiences warrant growth so since they have had more experience since their last meeting they have evolved as characters but that doesn't mean they are in their primes as duelists.

2. It exists but since you neutered your own argument I don't have to waste time googling it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Because that clearly diminshed. Experiences warrant growth so since they have had more experience since their last meeting they have evolved as characters but that doesn't mean they are in their primes as duelists.

2. It exists but since you neutered your own argument I don't have to waste time googling it.
1. What? If they have improved as duelists, how the f can they not have improved as duelists, geez you're stretching. Maul or kenobi getting physically doesn't mean they can't have gotten better as duelists overall as feloni implies

2. Whatever you say

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
1. What? If they have improved as duelists, how the f can they not have improved as duelists, geez you're stretching. Maul or kenobi getting physically doesn't mean they can't have gotten better as duelists overall as feloni implies

2. Whatever you say Due to Maul's emotional state, physical degradation, and lack of proper training.

Quit spelling his name incorrectly. He never states they improved as duelists.

2. You lose.

Maul is trash compared to Kenobi and Vader

Not sure Maul was in his prime, given his psyche. But Kenobi definitely is in his new enlightened mindset. Kenobi was always best when calm and rational, so this is his ultimate form.

That said I don't think TCW/SOD Maul is head and shoulders above Rebels Maul given he always struggled against a less enlightened version of Kenobi.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Maul is trash compared to Kenobi and Vader Filoni said otherwise. Your perceptions are your own and contrary to the people who scripted the fight. Maul at his best has always been better than Kenobi.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not sure Maul was in his prime, given his psyche. But Kenobi definitely is in his new enlightened mindset. Kenobi was always best when calm and rational, so this is his ultimate form.

That said I don't think TCW/SOD Maul is head and shoulders above Rebels Maul given he always struggled against a less enlightened version of Kenobi. So you attempt to ape my point of his psyche. Oh how far you've fallen to try and steal my points.

Kenobi is past his prime just primed for this moment against this Maul based off past expeorneces and Maul's brokenness.

Your theory about an enlightened Kenobi isn't factual so get your bs out of here.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Filoni said otherwise. Your perceptions are your own and contrary to the people who scripted the fight. Maul at his best has always been better than Kenobi.
What did filoni say? Because according to him Maul is inferior to Vader. Kenobi is debatable

This Maul wanking after such a poor showing is sad. He's never been all that amazing, at his best he's equal to a casual Kenobi.

Originally posted by Rebel95
What did filoni say? Because according to him Maul is inferior to Vader. Kenobi is debatable So you have no earthly idea yet want to blindly throw in your unwanted two cents. Ew. That's his opinion and he's welcome to it but anything that becomes a fact is irrefutable. Why don't you Star Wars debaters get it. If a writer pens something that becomes canon his opinion matters since its evidence. If he muses on something to never see the light of day it remains only his opinion.