Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/luke-skywalker-vs-exar-kun-context-and-circumstanc/130541/

Up yers, AP.

LETS HAVE A REASONABLE DISCUSSION.

The real question is: does Exar Kun have power over cutscene cinematic filters?

Mayhaps.

Kun takes another L.

I will be sharing this, good work.

Kun has been debunked.

Who's next?

It's almost as if Kun wank is almost entirely baseless mmm

Good shit, though

Originally posted by darthbane77
I will be sharing this, good work.
Originally posted by Selenial
It's almost as if Kun wank is almost entirely baseless mmm

Good shit, though

Thank you, darlings.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kun takes another L.



Originally posted by Trocity
Kun has been debunked.

Who's next?

I dunno, most of the overrated cucks on this site have been debunked.

Originally posted by MythLord
I dunno, most of the overrated cucks on this site have been debunked.

Not nearly enough.

Won't be satisfied until Ben is universally accepted as > Exar Kun.

I mean, Sidious is canonically > Exar Kun and Ben is ~ Sidious according to Luke.

Reading it so far. Is good but suggesting Luke's in a worse mental state than Anakin on Mustafar is incomprehensibly wrong.

AP goes into into raging fanboy mode in 5, 4 ,3, 2 ,1

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Reading it so far. Is good but suggesting Luke's in a worse mental state than Anakin on Mustafar is incomprehensibly wrong.

Meh, I might've overexaggerated that, but Luke's general mental hinderence was pretty severe regardless.

Thanks, btw.

Originally posted by carthage
AP goes into into raging fanboy mode in 5, 4 ,3, 2 ,1

w00t

I thought this was common knowledge?

Sadly, it ain't.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I thought this was common knowledge? Among those with common sense yeah.

Mentally hindered or not, the reason Luke lost was because he didn't know how to defend against Kun's magic. This is explicitly stated in the text.

Yah.

Also I'm guessing your aware of this quote already Myth but from the novel synopsis of Dark Apprentice:The back cover providing further contexts:
i.e. when Kyp and Kun combined their powers against Luke, they were potentially a greater threat than any foe the New Republic had then faced e.g. DE Palpatine, whose canonically more powerful than Kun. Or in other words, they made for a massively amped duo.

Originally posted by MythLord
Sadly, it ain't.

Is that so? Interesting.

While I appreciate the effort put into this, it seems unnecessary. The novel goes to great lengths to express how fvcked Luke's mental state is. I don't see the use in explaining something that's about as common as addition and subtraction problems. Still nice thread, structure and all that.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Among those with common sense yeah.

Except this is like... Basic math lol

Originally posted by MythLord
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/luke-skywalker-vs-exar-kun-context-and-circumstanc/130541/

Up yers, AP.

LETS HAVE A REASONABLE DISCUSSION.

https://media.tenor.co/images/1e78374048e663150129b851f226ec10/tenor.gif

Whilst Luke Skywalker's mental integrity is questionable all the way until Specters of the Past, he is also more powerful than ever before:



Nor did he fail to summon all possible power in the fight:



One fallacy dealt with.

The relationship between Exar Kun's spirit and the Yavin IV Temples has already been explained in detail:



That's all they've ever been stated to do for him, funnily enough, Kyp Durron amped with a Temple is still feeble in comparison to when he's amped by Exar Kun:



The relationship between Exar Kun and Kyp Durron is simple, Lun is powerless withput a source of enerfy to draw from-that's Kyp-when he does have a reservoir of energy to replace his own long lost reserves, he can summon his own power, which is far greater than Kyp's own:



As is further explored here:



By now you might want to realise that Kyp Durron never obtained an amulet and it's highly likely that a protagonist from Shadow of Revan took said amulet.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/QXOS6XgmF5UwU/200_s.gif

Nice discussion.

In other words, the power of Force spirits depends on the potential of those they possess.

Yep, throw Kun in the debunked pile along with the Solo twins, Bane, Vaylin, etc.

He hasn't been debunked at all.

He stomps Vader too.

Originally posted by Trocity
Yep, throw Kun in the debunked pile along with the Solo twins, Bane, Vaylin, etc.
lotf jaina was never debunked

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Mentally hindered or not, the reason Luke lost was because he didn't know how to defend against Kun's magic. This is explicitly stated in the text.



I honestly don't see the point in this blog - flaws within it notwithstanding.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He hasn't been debunked at all.

He stomps Vader too.

https://i.imgflip.com/1g9l31.jpg

Nah. Vader lol shit stomps the ShitLord tbfh

using that quote is a disservice to vader tbh

When Vader can:

-physically tank Force attacks from beings that can tank supernova waves that fry the surfaces of planets.

-easily dominate millions of Sith.

-one-shot Jedi such as Odan-Urr, Thon and Baas through the Force.

-has become powerful than Vitiate, pre-prime.

-disintegrate dozens if not hundreds of Massassi whilst massively pre-prime.

There might be a discussion.

Vader is Ragnos to Nadd tier at best.

Originally posted by AncientPower
-physically tank Force attacks from beings that can tank supernova waves that fry the surfaces of planets.
Ood Bnar transformed into a tree-like form and drew power from the depths of planet Ossus to pull that off, and it is a feat of defense. He did not attack Exar Kun with raw power of that magnitude.

Originally posted by AncientPower
-easily dominate millions of Sith.
Millions?

Originally posted by AncientPower
-one-shot Jedi such as Odan-Urr, Thon and Baas through the Force.
Separately

Originally posted by AncientPower
-has become powerful than Vitiate, pre-prime.
Not even close


Originally posted by AncientPower
-disintegrate dozens if not hundreds of Massassi whilst massively pre-prime.
OK

Originally posted by AncientPower
There might be a discussion.

Vader is Ragnos to Nadd tier at best.
mmm

REASONABLE DISCUSSION...
GET THE **** OFF THE PHONE, THATS RACIST

Originally posted by AncientPower
Whilst Luke Skywalker's mental integrity is questionable all the way until Specters of the Past, he is also more powerful than ever before:

And sadly he can't use the power if he's as mentally unhinged as he was when he fought Kyp and Kun. The quote in the blog summed it up fairly well:

"'Let me guess,' she said, the sarcasm gone from her voice again. 'Life as a Jedi has been a lot foggier than you ever expected it to be. You've had trouble understanding what you're supposed to do, or how you're supposed to behave. You've been gaining tremendous power in the Force, but more often than not you've been paralyzed with fear that you're going to use it the wrong way. Am I getting warm?'

Luke stared at her. 'Yes,' he said, not quite believing it. How had she known? 'That's it exactly.'"

-- Visions of the Future

So despite the fact that he's more powerful than ever(which is already more powerful than Exar Kun, as I've detailed in the blog), he can't use said power properly.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nor did he fail to summon all possible power in the fight:

Given his poor mental state and the environment massively hindering him, that's quite frankly not going to be all the power he has to offer. And said power was still enough to shield his physical body entirely from any long lasting damaging effects of the Dark Side tendrils or lightning(refer to the blog for quotes) so it's fairly evident his Force defenses were at least somewhat successful.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The relationship between Exar Kun's spirit and the Yavin IV Temples has already been explained in detail:

KEK, you've practically given me a quote that says Exar draws on the Dark Side nexus of Yavin IV. Thanks.

Originally posted by AncientPower
That's all they've ever been stated to do for him, funnily enough, Kyp Durron amped with a Temple is still feeble in comparison to when he's amped by Exar Kun:

Just because they stop his spirit from disolving doesn't mean they also can't be used as further amplification given how that's how Dark Side nexuses operate.

Anyways, the very power of the nexus isn't feeble compared to Exar Kun's; Kyp Durron's sense abilities, even amped by the Temple, just aren't as good as Exar's. He was using the Force to search through the Yavin system for the Sun Crusher, and Kun simply helped him extend his thoughts.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The relationship between Exar Kun and Kyp Durron is simple, Lun is powerless withput a source of enerfy to draw from-that's Kyp-when he does have a reservoir of energy to replace his own long lost reserves, he can summon his own power, which is far greater than Kyp's own:

Actually, that just means Exar has to use Kyp's own power in order to unleash his own techniques. It's still Durron doing the heavy lifting, given how I, Jedi identifies him as the one hurling Corran, Dark Apprentice notes it's his might, with Kun's weapons, and The Jedi Academy Sourcebook notes that Exar is simply boosting/unlocking Kyp's potential.

Keep in mind this was a novel written at a time where a rookie Jedi can overcome one of the greatest DS nexuses in the galaxy with Battle Meditation, with room to spare. And BMs and abilities to that effect actually unlock one's potential, allowing them to achieve far greater heights of power than they normally would in that moment.

Originally posted by AncientPower
By now you might want to realise that Kyp Durron never obtained an amulet and it's highly likely that a protagonist from Shadow of Revan took said amulet.

And yet it notes Kyp possessed the "forbidden weapons of Exar Kun", which obviously means his amulet.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nice discussion.

Always nice proving you wrong. I like how you failed to address Luke being canonically more powerful than Kun or overcoming him on an equal playingfield, though.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ood Bnar transformed into a tree-like form and drew power from the depths of planet Ossus to pull that off, and it is a feat of defense. He did not attack Exar Kun with raw power of that magnitude.

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5453155-blasts+back+exar+kun.jpg

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Millions?



Exar Kun is far more powerful than him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Separately

As if I claimed otherwise.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not even close

Confirmed in three sources, nothing contradicts this until the Encyclopedia which is dated 350 years after.

Originally posted by MythLord
And sadly he can't use the power if he's as mentally unhinged as he was when he fought Kyp and Kun. The quote in the blog summed it up fairly well:

"'Let me guess,' she said, the sarcasm gone from her voice again. 'Life as a Jedi has been a lot foggier than you ever expected it to be. You've had trouble understanding what you're supposed to do, or how you're supposed to behave. You've been gaining tremendous power in the Force, but more often than not you've been paralyzed with fear that you're going to use it the wrong way. Am I getting warm?'

Luke stared at her. 'Yes,' he said, not quite believing it. How had she known? 'That's it exactly.'"

-- Visions of the Future

So according to Mara Jade he's paralysed by fear, and we're going to take her claim over sources that state he's using all the power of the Force in the battle in question?

I guess I should start using Horn to claim Spirit Kun is so much more powerful than Luke that Horn had never even conceived of such prowess before.

I wouldn't at all argue against his fear over his power somewhat hindering him but not instances ehere he's directly dtated to have done the opposite.

Originally posted by MythLord
So despite the fact that he's more powerful than ever(which is already more powerful than Exar Kun, as I've detailed in the blog), he can't use said power properly.

More powerful than Exar Kun's powerless spirit, sure.

He's directly stated to have done do in the primary source on the matter.

Originally posted by MythLord
Given his poor mental state and the environment massively hindering him, that's quite frankly not going to be all the power he has to offer. And said power was still enough to shield his physical body entirely from any long lasting damaging effects of the Dark Side tendrils or lightning(refer to the blog for quotes) so it's fairly evident his Force defenses were at least somewhat successful.

The environment that so massively hinders them, that they can use said environment to massively amp themselves.

Originally posted by MythLord
KEK, you've practically given me a quote that says Exar draws on the Dark Side nexus of Yavin IV. Thanks.

His spirit sustains itself off of the focusing points of the Temple designed to channel his power, yes. Nothing else is ever stated, so you can desperately grasp those straws all you like.

Originally posted by MythLord
Just because they stop his spirit from disolving doesn't mean they also can't be used as further amplification given how that's how Dark Side nexuses operate.

Given he's never stated to have done so in any canonical source, that's baseless speculation.

Originally posted by MythLord
Anyways, the very power of the nexus isn't feeble compared to Exar Kun's; Kyp Durron's sense abilities, even amped by the Temple, just aren't as good as Exar's. He was using the Force to search through the Yavin system for the Sun Crusher, and Kun simply helped him extend his thoughts.

Yet the amplification Kun provides him outstrips that which he gains via the focusing point completely. This is no different than Traya in the Trayus Core, using it's power to boost her senses and farsight.

Originally posted by MythLord
Actually, that just means Exar has to use Kyp's own power in order to unleash his own techniques. It's still Durron doing the heavy lifting, given how I, Jedi identifies him as the one hurling Corran, Dark Apprentice notes it's his might, with Kun's weapons, and The Jedi Academy Sourcebook notes that Exar is simply boosting/unlocking Kyp's potential.

Of course he's doing the heavy lifting, he's the being dpminated and having Kun's powers exerted through. It doesn't change the fact that he was still only capable of some of his powers nor did Kyp ptovide enough of the energy to retain Kun's own lost reserves of energy. As is all stated in Sourcebooks.

Originally posted by MythLord
Keep in mind this was a novel written at a time where a rookie Jedi can overcome one of the greatest DS nexuses in the galaxy with Battle Meditation, with room to spare. And BMs and abilities to that effect actually unlock one's potential, allowing them to achieve far greater heights of power than they normally would in that moment.

An astute observation.

Originally posted by MythLord
And yet it notes Kyp possessed the "forbidden weapons of Exar Kun", which obviously means his amulet.

Which are the Sith techniques Kun taught him, he himself refers to them as weapons too but he clearly means powers.

Originally posted by MythLord
Always nice proving you wrong. I like how you failed to address Luke being canonically more powerful than Kun or overcoming him on an equal playingfield, though.

Luke being canonically more powerful than his Spirit when he has no power means nothing. Luke sent him reeling with a surprise attack.

When even LeG isn't buying your TOR wank, you know something's wrong. Originally posted by AncientPower
When Vader can:

-physically tank Force attacks from beings that can tank supernova waves that fry the surfaces of planets.Try withstanding the destruction of a Sith superweapon that can atomise anything its path or a blast caused by Galen Marek unleashing all the power the Force within him.

I'll take over struggling to get up after being floored by a tree, kek.

I assume you mean senators.

Try ragdolling Starkiller, kek.

For once Leg is on the money, not even close.

Through having his powers focused through an intensifying amulet, itself amped by the concentrated dark energies of a Sith temple. Try blowing up Lyleks with carapaces harder than armor without amulets, nexi and some 15 years before his prime.

Sadly there isn't one, Vader trashes Kun in the feats department.

Is that the truth?

And resize your f*cking images, Christ sake.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
When even LeG isn't buying your TOR wank, you know something's wrong. Try withstanding the destruction of a Sith superweapon that can atomise anything its path or a blast caused by Galen Marek unleashing all the power the Force within him.

Were either of those supposed to compare to prowess that tanks supernova waves? The denial is strong.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'll take over struggling to get up after being floored by a tree, kek.

A tree that has a far greater feat than anything Vader has ever accomplished.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I assume you mean senators.

His distant inferior enthralled and dominated the entire Sith people against their will and ripped their knowledge of sorcery from them. He was called Ajunta Pall.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Try ragdolling Starkiller, kek.

I'm pretty sure shrugging off Odan-Urr's most powerful attack before one-shotting him, a guy who is more powerful than Thon, who could single-handedly Wall of Light an extreme Dark Side Nexus such as Ambria, whilst exhausted, is slightly more impressive than a single good feat against a guy who later subdues Vader completely.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
For once Leg is on the money, not even close.

Denial is the first step, Beni.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Through having his powers focused through an intensifying amulet, itself amped by the concentrated dark energies of a Sith temple. Try blowing up Lyleks with carapaces harder than armor without amulets, nexi and some 15 years before his prime.

The amulet powered the Temple, not the other way around.

Exar Kun immediately grew more powerful, then went to stalemate Ulic, bedore gaining tremendous dark side powers, before stomping Odan-Urr and becoming even more powerful, gaining tremendous Sith knowledge and achieving his prime. Any kind of amp is absolutely negligible next to this power growth.

Blowing up Lyleks =/= Disintegrating potentially hundreds of Massassi Warriors.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sadly there isn't one, Vader trashes Kun in the feats department.

You've yet to provide anything suggesting anything remotely close to that.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Is that the truth?

Evidently.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So according to Mara Jade he's paralysed by fear, and we're going to take her claim over sources that state he's using all the power of the Force in the battle in question?

"All the power of the Force" clearly means all the power he could've mustered at that given moment.
Regardless, Luke himself has openly agreed with Mara's observation and deemed it correct. He'd know more about himself and his hinderences/weaknesses than Kun's yandere.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I guess I should start using Horn to claim Spirit Kun is so much more powerful than Luke that Horn had never even conceived of such prowess before.

A claim that has been debunked God knows how many times.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I wouldn't at all argue against his fear over his power somewhat hindering him but not instances ehere he's directly dtated to have done the opposite.

Thankfully, this isn't one of those instances since it states Luke couldn't control his growing fear. Not to mention his emotional confliction

Originally posted by AncientPower
He's directly stated to have done do in the primary source on the matter.

Not at all. "All the power of the Force" is obviously not just hyperbolic, but is referring to the power he could've mustered in that moment, unless you'd have me believe Corran Horn defended himself more adequately against Kyp's assault than Luke could have, which is absolutely hilarious.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The environment that so massively hinders them, that they can use said environment to massively amp themselves.

When they actively draw on it, which you have no proof Luke did and it's completely out of character for Luke to do so. Otherwise, a DS nexus hinders any Light Sider who doesn't want to run the risk of tapping into it and giving into his anger/the dark side; something that is also been stated in Luke's exchange with Kun and Kyp.

Originally posted by AncientPower
His spirit sustains itself off of the focusing points of the Temple designed to channel his power, yes. Nothing else is ever stated, so you can desperately grasp those straws all you like.

You don't need it to be stated in order to use freaking common sense, but that's a skill long lost to you, I'm sure.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet the amplification Kun provides him outstrips that which he gains via the focusing point completely. This is no different than Traya in the Trayus Core, using it's power to boost her senses and farsight.

Kun isn't so much amplifying him as allowing him to see further, more clearly, opening his mind. That doesn't mean his raw power is > the power of the nexus.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Of course he's doing the heavy lifting, he's the being dpminated and having Kun's powers exerted through. It doesn't change the fact that he was still only capable of some of his powers nor did Kyp ptovide enough of the energy to retain Kun's own lost reserves of energy. As is all stated in Sourcebooks.

It isn't Exar Kun's power. I really don't care how dense you are or how much you want to deny it, the actual primary source states it's Kyp's might using Kun's weapons. The Jedi Academy Training Manual also notes that Sith spirits can only possess the powers of their hosts; so it's not Kun's power being unleashed through Kyp, it's Kyp's power being magnified by Kun.

Kyp is more than capable of matching/surpassing Kun's own reserves; it's just Kyp's power isn't enough to completely reanimate Exar's body or release him from his trap.

Originally posted by AncientPower
An astute observation.

Something you're seemingly incapable of.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Which are the Sith techniques Kun taught him, he himself refers to them as weapons too but he clearly means powers.

Possibly. mmm

Originally posted by AncientPower
Luke being canonically more powerful than his Spirit when he has no power means nothing. Luke sent him reeling with a surprise attack.

It means Kun couldn't have overcome Luke without Kyp's power, darling; yet Kun's power is >>>>> Kyp's according to you and your fallacious logic and somehow Durron played a much bigger role in that contest than Exar, who only served to cheapshot Skywalker and amplify Kyp.

And assuming Luke is less powerful than Exar, said surprise attack wouldn't have made Exar Kun flee like a b!tch and practically admit defeat. But it did.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Were either of those supposed to compare to prowess that tanks supernova waves? The denial is strong. My goodness, are you attempting to suggest that because Kun didn't die to Bnar's attack he can tank supernovas as well? What kind of quarter wit are you? haermm

And that same tree was more powerful than Kun.

Retconned lel, Soruz Syn's own accounting states that they achieved authority by undermining their power structure and killing their king, garnering respect for their power, not enforcing it.

Well done for changing the goalposts there lel, your point was in regards to Kun attacking them, not the other way around. Vader's superior defences have already addressed, and in regards to "subduing Vader completely" is concerned - never happened.

Quite, and the subsequent road to retardation has been mapped out extensively by yourself over the years.



The temple was designed to augment and focus the dark side all on its own.

What about an amp that magnified his hatred one hundred thousand times

Quite, obliterating far more durable targets without the aid of a suped up death ray is much more impressive.

Sure thing darl, I'd say you should have stuck to the spirit feats and power-scaling, but when they've been debunked beyond belief I can understand your decision.

And to weigh in on your debate with Myth if I may:
This does not say Luke rallied all the power of the Force, but all the powers (plural) i.e. abilities, not holistic strength, but rather all the powers Yoda and Kenobi had taught him. Which is not to say that he was at all applying these techniques to the best of his capabilities.

Can I just say I love how you have to team up to argue against me, as always, when did you two get married?

Originally posted by MythLord
"All the power of the Force" clearly means all the power he could've mustered at that given moment.

All the powers of the Force around him, which could even refer to the Focusing Point directly below him.

Originally posted by MythLord
Regardless, Luke himself has openly agreed with Mara's observation and deemed it correct. He'd know more about himself and his hinderences/weaknesses than Kun's yandere.

Luke agrees with her over-all statement about his choices and indecisiveness, what you're doing is attempting to massively reach and act as if Luke's completely incapable of anything.

You should have stuck to Sorcery, but apparently common sense has abandoned you.

Originally posted by MythLord
A claim that has been debunked God knows how many times.

You mean NewGuy01 pointing out that Horn might not have the full measure of Luke's power? Rofl. Horn's obvious hyperbole simply means Kun is much more powerful than they could deal with.

Originally posted by MythLord
Thankfully, this isn't one of those instances since it states Luke couldn't control his growing fear. Not to mention his emotional confliction.

Yet he's fully capable of drawing on said power in the battle and walks into it determined to face down whatever is on the roof. Tjeir battle is even described as a titanic clash of powers.

Originally posted by MythLord
Not at all. "All the power of the Force" is obviously not just hyperbolic, but is referring to the power he could've mustered in that moment, unless you'd have me believe Corran Horn defended himself more adequately against Kyp's assault than Luke could have, which is absolutely hilarious.

Comparing telekinesis to the attacks they unleashed on Luke is straight up moronic.

Originally posted by MythLord
When they actively draw on it, which you have no proof Luke did and it's completely out of character for Luke to do so. Otherwise, a DS nexus hinders any Light Sider who doesn't want to run the risk of tapping into it and giving into his anger/the dark side; something that is also been stated in Luke's exchange with Kun and Kyp.

You have no proof that Kun was even capable of doing so beyond anchoring his spirit to the Temples. Checkmate.

In all seriousness, the students state outright in Darksaber, not even a year after, that the Temples channel all kinds of Force energy, not just dark side energy.

Originally posted by MythLord
You don't need it to be stated in order to use freaking common sense, but that's a skill long lost to you, I'm sure.

Oh, I'm sorry for not jumping to baseless conclusions, I know that's your typical bread and butter in a Kun debate though.

Originally posted by MythLord
Kun isn't so much amplifying him as allowing him to see further, more clearly, opening his mind. That doesn't mean his raw power is > the power of the nexus.

He's literally stated to reinforce Kyp with his black-ice power.

Originally posted by MythLord
It isn't Exar Kun's power. I really don't care how dense you are or how much you want to deny it, the actual primary source states it's Kyp's might using Kun's weapons. The Jedi Academy Training Manual also notes that Sith spirits can only possess the powers of their hosts; so it's not Kun's power being unleashed through Kyp, it's Kyp's power being magnified by Kun.

It's both of their power combined, Kun's lack of reserves is made up for by Kyp's own energy and emotions, which he is stated to draw from.

If he's so massively dependent on Kyp's power then do explain how he's almost killing all the other students, by himself, whilst they were mutually amping themselves beyond their own imagination.

Originally posted by MythLord
Kyp is more than capable of matching/surpassing Kun's own reserves; it's just Kyp's power isn't enough to completely reanimate Exar's body or release him from his trap.

Source? That's never implied anywhere, if Kun's long lost reserves are restored he needs to drain power from the students, including Kyp. This is what releases him from his slumber.

Originally posted by MythLord
Something you're seemingly incapable of.

Something you've lost all comprehensive ability for.

Originally posted by MythLord
Possibly. mmm

You're beginning to understand.

Originally posted by MythLord
It means Kun couldn't have overcome Luke without Kyp's power, darling; yet Kun's power is >>>>> Kyp's according to you and your fallacious logic and somehow Durron played a much bigger role in that contest than Exar, who only served to cheapshot Skywalker and amplify Kyp.

Yes, Kun as a spirit used Kyp as a means to strike down Luke, Kyp Durron did play a large role in that, but so did Exar Kun who isn't nearly as powerful as he was in life, as confirmed by OOU and IU statements, one of which comes from Veitch himself.

Originally posted by MythLord
And assuming Luke is less powerful than Exar, said surprise attack wouldn't have made Exar Kun flee like a b!tch and practically admit defeat. But it did.

Except it took Spirit Luke combining his power with thirteen other Jedi to defeat Kun's spirit. But let's ignore that.

I love how personally you're taking this.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
My goodness, are you attempting to suggest that because Kun didn't die to Bnar's attack he can tank supernovas as well? What kind of quarter wit are you? haermm

Not even close, Bnar is just extremely powerful in that state yet he didn't kill Kun with a blast, who was taken off-guard, he didn't even seriously injured him. Despite the fact he went on to outright incinerate Sedriss with a much less powerful Ossus.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And that same tree was more powerful than Kun.

The planet amped tree, yes.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Retconned lel, Soruz Syn's own accounting states that they achieved authority by undermining their power structure and killing their king, garnering respect for their power, not enforcing it.

They did this after killing Gruash.

Not to mention Ommin was dominating and enraging millions in Iziz, with his first display of power. Despite Iziz being a stronghold of Dark Side cultists. Yet Exar Kun had already surpassed Nadd's spirit, who was solely responsible for Ommin's power, before he'd even left Yavin IV.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well done for changing the goalposts there lel, your point was in regards to Kun attacking them, not the other way around. Vader's superior defences have already addressed, and in regards to "subduing Vader completely" is concerned - never happened.

I changed nothing, I'm displaying how powerful Urr was and Kun desrroyed him easily.

Never happened? Rofl, Sam Witwer's statements on the concepts of TFU3 don't weigh more than actual sources stating Starkiller outright defeated him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Quite, and the subsequent road to retardation has been mapped out extensively by yourself over the years.



Coming from a PT wanker this is hilarious.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The temple was designed to augment and focus the dark side all on its own.

Yes, but it didn't amplify the amulet, it was the other way around. Furthermore, the power was explicitly stated to come from his own heart.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
What about an amp that magnified his hatred one hundred thousand times

Obvious hyperbole, it increased his rage and channelled it into Force Blasts. No such amp is relevant concerning the prime Exar Kun.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Quite, obliterating far more durable targets without the aid of a suped up death ray is much more impressive.

Far more durable? He was still capable of disintegrating them despite the fact they were alchemically designed to tank Republic artillery fire.

Love how you have to change the goal posts from Legends Vader to Canon Vader.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure thing darl, I'd say you should have stuck to the spirit feats and power-scaling, but when they've been debunked beyond belief I can understand your decision.

You can keep calling things debunked if that makes you feel better.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Can I just say I love how you have to team up to argue against me, as always, when did you two get married?

At least I found love with an actual living being, as oppose to a fictional character.

Originally posted by AncientPower
All the powers of the Force around him, which could even refer to the Focusing Point directly below him.

Powers; plural, as in abilities. And it wouldn't make sense for Luke to draw on the Dark Side nexus, both from an in-character perspective and the fact that to do so he'd have to give into his anger and desperation, something the text notes he isn't going to do.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Luke agrees with her over-all statement about his choices and indecisiveness, what you're doing is attempting to massively reach and act as if Luke's completely incapable of anything.

Her overall statement being: a lack of control over his own fear leads to his inability to abuse the tremendous power Luke has at his disposal... Which is exactly what I'm arguing.

I'm not acting as if Luke is completely incapable of anything, so kindly stop with your strawman. Luke clearly is capable of doing something since, y'know, he successfully shielded his entire body from any physical damage from Kyp's lightning and Kun's tendrils.

My point is he isn't as capable as his power would imply he is, since his emotions don't allow it. This is tremendously backed up by the text in question.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You should have stuck to Sorcery, but apparently common sense has abandoned you.

Good, then we can finally have something in-common.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You mean NewGuy01 pointing out that Horn might not have the full measure of Luke's power? Rofl. Horn's obvious hyperbole simply means Kun is much more powerful than they could deal with.

That is a point worth mentioning, but Corran's primary judgement of Kun's power came from him masking his very presence from Luke despite being in close proximity.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet he's fully capable of drawing on said power in the battle and walks into it determined to face down whatever is on the roof. Tjeir battle is even described as a titanic clash of powers.

Yes; his connection to the Force isn't severed you dolt, so he can still draw on it. A titanic clash of powers also doesn't undermine or contradict the idea that Luke himself was hindered due to his emotional state. It just means even a weakened Luke possesses titanic power... Good hype.

I don't care if he's determined or not, he's still an emotional wreck because he's facing his best student and can't even control his growing fear.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Comparing telekinesis to the attacks they unleashed on Luke is straight up moronic.

I'd imagine Kyp is more capable with telekinesis, something he's displayed an aptitude for since he was a child, than Force lightning, to be honest.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You have no proof that Kun was even capable of doing so beyond anchoring his spirit to the Temples. Checkmate.

So a bunch of Light Side trainees can tap into the Dark Side nexus' power, but Exar Kun can't?

Originally posted by AncientPower
In all seriousness, the students state outright in Darksaber, not even a year after, that the Temples channel all kinds of Force energy, not just dark side energy.

Quote, please. It's firmly established to be "tremendous dark side energy". A Jedi is capable of drawing on the Dark Side of the Force and it's nexuses(Yoda: Dark Rendezvous), but they usually don't since, y'know, they're Light-Siders.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh, I'm sorry for not jumping to baseless conclusions, I know that's your typical bread and butter in a Kun debate though.

I think I've debated against Exar maybe... three times? And only twice with you. I don't have "typical bread and butter", but I know you do though. The butter's expired, btw.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He's literally stated to reinforce Kyp with his black-ice power.

Yeh, in the Sense department.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's both of their power combined, Kun's lack of reserves is made up for by Kyp's own energy and emotions, which he is stated to draw from.

It's mostly Kyp, however, hence why every source primarily mentions Kyp's power using Exar's techniques and being boosted by Exar's BM or something along those lines.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If he's so massively dependent on Kyp's power then do explain how he's almost killing all the other students, by himself, whilst they were mutually amping themselves beyond their own imagination.

He's massively dependant on Kyp's power when fighting Luke, not when fighting a bunch of trainees, lmao.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Source? That's never implied anywhere, if Kun's long lost reserves are restored he needs to drain power from the students, including Kyp. This is what releases him from his slumber.

He's still awake, y'know. But Exar primarily yearns to re-animate/free himself from Yavin IV, which obviously takes more power than he's got even with his long-lost reserves restored.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes, Kun as a spirit used Kyp as a means to strike down Luke, Kyp Durron did play a large role in that, but so did Exar Kun who isn't nearly as powerful as he was in life, as confirmed by OOU and IU statements, one of which comes from Veitch himself.

Kun's role was amping Kyp and teaching him sh!t, which I acknowledge. It's Kyp's power, however, not Exar's.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Except it took Spirit Luke combining his power with thirteen other Jedi to defeat Kun's spirit. But let's ignore that.

Except it's never stated Luke needed the other thirteen of them; i I mean, a weaker Luke with the aid of a trainee Leia and baby severed Palpatine of the Force and controlled a Force Storm. I doubt he'd really need much assistance in severing the spirit of Exar Kun, someone who's canonically far and away inferior to Sidious.

Actually, if you think about it, Exar didn't start getting disintegrated by the Light Side energy until Luke came in, so Skywalker's actually doing the heavy lifting.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I love how personally you're taking this.

I'm not... I really couldn't care less about you or your TotJ fetish.

AP getting destroyed per usual.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not even close, Bnar is just extremely powerful in that state yet he didn't kill Kun with a blast, who was taken off-guard, he didn't even seriously injured him. Despite the fact he went on to outright incinerate Sedriss with a much less powerful Ossus.Cool. Still not nearly powerful as the blasts Vader endured. The one Ood unleashed on Sedriss being visibly much more potent kek.

Good, glad we cleared that one up.

Ah I see, so you've got an updated source?

Not remotely, he was only able to trigger pockets of anger across the city, by gathering the energies of the dark side nexus. None of which are implied to be Force sensitive. You keep making up feats AP and its getting old.

Less powerful than a frigate buster yeah.

Did I mention Witwer? I was referring a common sense reading of the text, you should try it.

You mean someone who doesn't have their arguments debunked and ridiculed at every turn? mmm

Perhaps provide proof. And is that an omission that the power generated by the amulet does not come from the wielder?

And yet Kun being the darkest power in the galaxy isn't?

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't take it at face value, or anything close to it.

Orly? I'd appreciate proof. Not that it matters given the Twi'leks were made to fortify their cities against the threat of just a handful of Lyleks.

You never specified Legends or Canon darling, whereas from the outset I referred to Legends + Canon feats, because, as is standard, I am considering a composite.

No need darling, watching your constant failures provides me with all the happiness I need.

Lmao it's alright dear, I understand you're not used to getting support from your peers.

Originally posted by MythLord
At least I found love with an actual living being, as oppose to a fictional character.

If Exar Kun was even in my top ten characters that might be funny.

Originally posted by MythLord
Powers; plural, as in abilities. And it wouldn't make sense for Luke to draw on the Dark Side nexus, both from an in-character perspective and the fact that to do so he'd have to give into his anger and desperation, something the text notes he isn't going to do.

I'm going to put some stake in KJA's writing abilities and say that your interpretation is invalid given that it would render half of the entire quote redundant. It's clearly referring to his powers in the Force, given he refers to his defensive techniques failing later in the same quote.

Originally posted by MythLord
Her overall statement being: a lack of control over his own fear leads to his inability to abuse the tremendous power Luke has at his disposal... Which is exactly what I'm arguing.

I'm not acting as if Luke is completely incapable of anything, so kindly stop with your strawman. Luke clearly is capable of doing something since, y'know, he successfully shielded his entire body from any physical damage from Kyp's lightning and Kun's tendrils.

My point is he isn't as capable as his power would imply he is, since his emotions don't allow it. This is tremendously backed up by the text in question.

Then your entire argument regarding his mental condition is moot because his mindset takes until Specters to actually sort itself out. (Kinda, not really)

Originally posted by MythLord
That is a point worth mentioning, but Corran's primary judgement of Kun's power came from him masking his very presence from Luke despite being in close proximity.

Incorrect, it was Kun masking his ass kicking of Horn from the hallway just outside from the entire hall of Jedi-including Luke.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yes; his connection to the Force isn't severed you dolt, so he can still draw on it. A titanic clash of powers also doesn't undermine or contradict the idea that Luke himself was hindered due to his emotional state. It just means even a weakened Luke possesses titanic power... Good hype.

I don't care if he's determined or not, he's still an emotional wreck because he's facing his best student and can't even control his growing fear.

Except Luke being hindered can apply to everything he's done until Specters.

Originally posted by MythLord
I'd imagine Kyp is more capable with telekinesis, something he's displayed an aptitude for since he was a child, than Force lightning, to be honest.

Horn was also explicitly good with Tutaminis, your point?

Originally posted by MythLord
So a bunch of Light Side trainees can tap into the Dark Side nexus' power, but Exar Kun can't?

Calling them trainees doesn't diminish them, lmfao.

Exar Kun's spirit is anchored to the Focal Points and sustains itself off of said power, that's it.

Originally posted by MythLord
Quote, please. It's firmly established to be "tremendous dark side energy". A Jedi is capable of drawing on the Dark Side of the Force and it's nexuses(Yoda: Dark Rendezvous), but they usually don't since, y'know, they're Light-Siders.





Originally posted by MythLord
Yeh, in the Sense department.

it's an over-all amplification of his powers, not on department, rofl.

Originally posted by MythLord
It's mostly Kyp, however, hence why every source primarily mentions Kyp's power using Exar's techniques and being boosted by Exar's BM or something along those lines.

I think Kyp being comparatively 'feeble' and a 'light breeze' without him is much more telling.

Originally posted by MythLord
He's massively dependant on Kyp's power when fighting Luke, not when fighting a bunch of trainees, lmao.

A bunch of trainees, one of whom goes on to be capable of exhausting Luke in combat. He was called Brakiss.

Originally posted by MythLord
He's still awake, y'know. But Exar primarily yearns to re-animate/free himself from Yavin IV, which obviously takes more power than he's got even with his long-lost reserves restored.

He's still a spirit.



Further cemented in a second source:



Originally posted by MythLord
Kun's role was amping Kyp and teaching him sh!t, which I acknowledge. It's Kyp's power, however, not Exar's.

It's both and there's no arguing otherwise.

Originally posted by MythLord
Except it's never stated Luke needed the other thirteen of them; i I mean, a weaker Luke with the aid of a trainee Leia and baby severed Palpatine of the Force and controlled a Force Storm. I doubt he'd really need much assistance in severing the spirit of Exar Kun, someone who's canonically far and away inferior to Sidious.

Actually, if you think about it, Exar didn't start getting disintegrated by the Light Side energy until Luke came in, so Skywalker's actually doing the heavy lifting.

Streen was the one who caused actual damage to him and then banished his spirit after Kirana Ti and Dorsk 81 cut through him with lightsabers.

Originally posted by MythLord
I'm not... I really couldn't care less about you or your TotJ fetish.

I'm convinced.

Originally posted by carthage
AP getting destroyed per usual.

Funny, because they've yet to prove anything that everybody doesn't already know.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cool. Still not nearly powerful as the blasts Vader endured. The one Ood unleashed on Sedriss being visibly much more potent kek.

The blasts Vader endured aren't even within the same scope as a supernova wave (it was implied to be more than one actually), which is what Bnar, calling upon the same energy source, was capable of enduring. Yet his attack on an off-guard Kun can't even injure the Sith Lord. In other words, Vader ain't got shit to throw at him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Good, glad we cleared that one up.

Yes, you've failed to grasp basic concepts, yet again.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Ah I see, so you've got an updated source?

Given the text in reference is after taking control of the Sith prople, sure.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not remotely, he was only able to trigger pockets of anger across the city, by gathering the energies of the dark side nexus. None of which are implied to be Force sensitive. You keep making up feats AP and its getting old.

Lmfao, learn to read:



It doesn't mean he was restricted to inducing violence, that was only a single facet, as his powers are confirmed to dominate the people of Onderon:



Point being, this kind of scale of domination is a low showing for somebody as powerful as Exar Kun, yet Vader hasn't got anything to compare to such wide scale influence.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Less powerful than a frigate buster yeah.

Dominating energies that ruined the surface of a planet whilst exhausted > blowing apart the already disintegrating bridge head of a Nebulon-B.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Did I mention Witwer? I was referring a common sense reading of the text, you should try it.

Or, y'know, him getting outright telekinetically dominated by the less powerful Galen Marek:



Originally posted by Beniboybling
You mean someone who doesn't have their arguments debunked and ridiculed at every turn? mmm

You keep saying that as if it's true, which it never is.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Perhaps provide proof. And is that an omission that the power generated by the amulet does not come from the wielder?

How the hell does my stating that the text directly credits Kun's own rage as the source of energy equate to the power not coming from the weilder?

You could read the comic? The Massassi Priest dons the Amulet and then the temple starts channelling power from him to unleash the Wyrm.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And yet Kun being the darkest power in the galaxy isn't?

If only there were two other statements corroborating the statement from the comic.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Give me one good reason why I shouldn't take it at face value, or anything close to it.

Because if Exar Kun, who was already replacing Nadd as a great power in the galaxy, had his rage multiplied a thousand times, then another hundred thousand times, then he'd have destroyed the planet given that his distant inferiors with far lesser amplifications were destroying the cores of stars and manipulating solar flares.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Orly? I'd appreciate proof. Not that it matters given the Twi'leks were made to fortify their cities against the threat of just a handful of Lyleks.



He is stated in the Audio Drama to still be capable of reducing them to 'ashes' just before he recovers the Corsair, so yes he's capable of disintegrating what are essentially mutated tanks with Dark Side powers of their own.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You never specified Legends or Canon darling, whereas from the outset I referred to Legends + Canon feats, because, as is standard, I am considering a composite.

Of course you are, because otherwise we both know this would have ended in your nth loss even sooner.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No need darling, watching your constant failures provides me with all the happiness I need.

If 'failures' refer to my inability to lose to you in basically any discussion, then sure.

Originally posted by AncientPower
When Vader can:

-physically tank Force attacks from beings that can tank supernova waves that fry the surfaces of planets.

Malachor



Huh? What Sith?





Galen Marek? Aurra Sing? Jax Pavan? ****ing Ferus Olin?



Are we using fanfics now?





Which beats ragdolling Marek how?



People like you are why I don't get on here anymore.

Yet, you're here.

Lol Fated, did you even read the thread?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yet, you're here.

What can I say? when Pres. Trump doesn't tweet for awhile I get bored. I have to get my daily dose of cancer somewhere :4

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lol Fated, did you even read the thread?

Yeh. Just did. Too late2editnaodoe

Disregard what I said.

Originally posted by AncientPower
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/5453155-blasts+back+exar+kun.jpg
Fair enough.

That is an excellent demonstration of strength from Exar Kun.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun is far more powerful than him.
Freedon Nadd dominated the world of Onderon. How does that translate into Exar Kun dominating millions of Sith?

Originally posted by AncientPower
As if I claimed otherwise.
OK


Those are Revan TIER feats.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Confirmed in three sources, nothing contradicts this until the Encyclopedia which is dated 350 years after.
Their assessment is valid for the "known aspects of the galaxy" during that time. Vitiate is a hidden threat.

TOR encyclopedia covers wider spectrum of realities.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The blasts Vader endured aren't even within the same scope as a supernova wave (it was implied to be more than one actually), which is what Bnar, calling upon the same energy source, was capable of enduring. Yet his attack on an off-guard Kun can't even injure the Sith Lord. In other words, Vader ain't got shit to throw at him.Uhuh, what Bnar unleashed on Kun wasn't even close to the full extent of his power. That should be quite obvious from the events of DE. And Kun didn't have shit on him either, lel.

That's not true for either of them, kek.

Uhuh, try to understand that he needn't TP every single person on the planet to exert dominance over the populace holistically. In which respect, his efforts in targeting pinpricks is all he has displayed.

He obliterated over a hundred meters length of intact frigate darling no matter how you attempt to lowball it, he also obliterated a horde of powerful Marek clones with a similar repulse, both of which are much more impressive than subduing some Sith spirits who no, where not responsible for the ruination of the planet.

By which point he'd been beaten in body and spirit, not an accurate showing at all, nor is their any strict evidence that the original was less powerful. Try again.

I guess in your position denial is the best form of medicine.

I see, so what your saying is that despite the amulet's power being contained with "it's heart", it's capable of channelling power in addition from external sources, like for example, the Sith temple? I think you're on to something here AP. mmm

That's stated nowhere, rather it appears he is channelling and intensifying the power of the temple through the amulet, which only lends itself to my point.

There is no other statement that describes Kun as the most powerful darkness in the galaxy, naw.

Manipulating energies and obliterating matter exist on entirely different metrics, so this argument is flawed from the off, moreover there is no logic to what amounted to a battleship-sized amulet being inferior to a gauntlet fashioned by the same Dark Lord, nor the gauntlets Naga Sadow wore when he caused those solar flares. Finally given Nadd was by your own argument a shadow of his former self, we've no reason to believe Kun's even in Sadow's league.

Don't stop there I'd like to see the quote from the audio drama please.

Sure thing AP, next thing you'll be demanding that I use movie feats only.

Inability is the right word, you are indeed incapable of conceding to the reality of your own stupidity.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fair enough.

That is an excellent demonstration of strength from Exar Kun.

Indeed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Freedon Nadd dominated the world of Onderon. How does that translate into Exar Kun dominating millions of Sith?

This is in reference to Ajunta Pall.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
OK


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those are Revan TIER feats.

I'd have Urr, Baas and Thon all above Nyriss given Thon's immense Ambria feat and the fact the other two are canonically more powerful than him. Revan doesn't really matter in this debate though.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their assessment is valid for the "known aspects of the galaxy" during that time. Vitiate is a hidden threat.

No such restrictions were placed on any of them. It is also highly telling that the ancient Sith would proclaim Exar Kun the true Dark Lord of the Sith to usher in a Golden Age of the Sith, if they didn't think Exar Kun had the strength to surpass the Sith Emperor.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
TOR encyclopedia covers wider spectrum of realities.

It's seriously lacking, if anything.

when the hell did kun ever "one shot" baas?

I believe AP is saying since Kun one-shot Urr, he can do it to Baas too, if he so chooses.

Indeed, Urr is canonically more powerful than Baas, and Baas is canonically more powerful than Thon.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Indeed, Urr is canonically more powerful than Baas, and Baas is canonically more powerful than Thon.
Because of their ranks in the order?

That doesn't prove urr>baas

You can ignore it all you like, as if I care for your delusions, he's the Head of the Jedi Assembly making him top dog.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This is in reference to Ajunta Pall.

I'd have Urr, Baas and Thon all above Nyriss given Thon's immense Ambria feat and the fact the other two are canonically more powerful than him. Revan doesn't really matter in this debate though.

No such restrictions were placed on any of them. It is also highly telling that the ancient Sith would proclaim Exar Kun the true Dark Lord of the Sith to usher in a Golden Age of the Sith, if they didn't think Exar Kun had the strength to surpass the Sith Emperor.

It's seriously lacking, if anything.
Sorry, you lost me there. Repeating my question: when did Exar Kun dominate millions of Sith?

TBH, defeating Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik (simultaneously) in a duel, impresses me more; few would have this much capability. Darth Nyriss is also noted to be a master of Sith Sorcery so she might be packing a lot more than what we have seen from her so far.

---

What do you mean by that? TOR sources - time and again - reiterate that Vitiate is the TOP-DOG. Same sources acknowledge greatness of other Sith but none of them affirmed that Exar Kun became the TOP DOG for a time. That would not make sense, keeping in mind the history of Vitiate's power progression.

Exar Kun's promotions are valid for (known) aspects of the galaxy up to his time. This would be a reasonable in-universe explanation as well.

As for those Sith spirits choosing Exar Kun to lead the Sith cause, they might be aware of Vitiate's hostility. Vitiate would have either destroyed them or caged them in the Dark Temple. Strength was not the only factor.

---

TOR Enyclopedia is one of the best books out there. You disliking is subjective.

I guess because he was summoning an impenetrable Force barrier simultaneously, explanation appreciated.

On the other hand the blast he unleashed in DE was again, visibly much more potent, so this was never really a matter of debate, kek.

Orly? We're in 2017 dear this stuff is freely available on the internet, in which case I two have familiarised myself with the source and it clearly states:
That the Jedi in question dominated the Sith people, and in doing so became Dark Lord.

Whereas by Soruz Syn's accounting:
Pall in particular became Dark Lord by undermining their power structure and acting as the heir of King Adas. Soruz Syn says nothing of making them into unwilling thralls to achieve this, because it did not happen, nor would they have spent weeks politicising their way into power had they been able to do this. Instead:
Sorry AP, but there is no argument here, these accounts are mutually exclusive, the former having bungled the facts on the number of Dark Jedi present and being a retelling by Sadow almost two millennia after their arrival making it an unreliable source from the start.

Not at all, it's not even a greater feat than that of the Sith adept who enslaved a population of sapients with nothing but a minor Sith shrine to aid him:

http://i.imgur.com/gSQc9iA.jpg

Cheap parlour tricks like this would be child's play for someone of Vader's calibre.

And I commend you on the wasted purchase.

Nonetheless AP the idea behind buying a book is that you read it afterwards. Perhaps if you'd done that you'd realise that the Marek was trying to hold the ship together before obliterating it at the very last moment to save Juno. In regards to which though much of the ship had been torn away a significant portion of the fore remained intact, and nothing states otherwise. Stop embarrassing yourself with this made up nonsense and get a clue.

Not at all, that source explictly states that it was the ritual of a certain Sith sorceress that corrupted the planet, not the influence of Sith spirits who became bound to it thereafter, that Thon later lured and trapped in the lake:
Hint: dark side nexuses cannot chase people or be tricked into traps, lmao.

He lost yes. But not because he was less powerful. Whereas in their second duel Vader was given him a thrashing until Marek cheap-shotted him. But even then the DS ending reveals he wasn't really down and out at all, and the Prime Guide describes Vader was "too powerful" for the player who - having ended up disarmed and physically thrown off the platform - must resort to channelling Force lightning through the electricity pylons to defeat him. I'm afraid there's no debate here, Vader is better.

On the contrary my dear, this is the end of line for you. Kun's spirit feats have been debunked, his powerscaling as been debunked and now you've resorted to his base showings, a contest I am afraid you will lose too. In short AP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpFIj_8daVU&t=2m25s



Huh, what was that supposed to prove other than the fact the amulet can channel external sources of power? Lel.

By focusing the ambient energies of the temple through it, quite. Shall I take this to be a concession you cannot prove otherwise?



In which respect, all you've proven is that it's an exaggerated extrapolation of him being the most powerful Sith. Well done AP.

Not sure what point is your attempting to make here hon but you're correct on one thing, the Corsair is a Sith superweapon, far more advanced than a gauntlet designed by the same Dark Lord. In which respect you still haven't really given me a reason to believe it wouldn't yield greater power bar a clumsy appeal to incredulity.

That said it appears to me that the Corsair is just a device that can be activated at a push of a button, so I'm not sure Keto or Sadow's level of mastery is even relevant here. And even if we assumed this for a moment to be hyperbole, you'd have no means of quantifying just how much an amp it afforded, and only estimations as exactly how much stronger Kun became. On the other hand if the amp had become negligible as you claim he'd have no need to continue wearing the amulet, yet he did, so it didn't. Once again no argument here.

Cool, none of that proves Nadd was remotely as powerful as spirit, goodness.

Very nice. If only there were some proof Kun could accomplish this without an amulet and with TK.

That's nice dear, however I think I'll be sticking to the norm for now rather than conceding to your arbitrary stipulations. If that intimidates you, you're welcome to bow out now.

I'll be bookmarking this comment for when you concede.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm going to put some stake in KJA's writing abilities and say that your interpretation is invalid given that it would render half of the entire quote redundant. It's clearly referring to his powers in the Force, given he refers to his defensive techniques failing later in the same quote.

Except his "defensive techniques failing" comes a whole paragraph later, hence it's not redundant. You're in pretty big denial to miss the large space between the two quotes, that you conveniently omitted from your original response.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Then your entire argument regarding his mental condition is moot because his mindset takes until Specters to actually sort itself out.

Yeah, and so it isn't really moot since I'm debunking the idea that Exar is more powerful than Luke. If Luke's mental state would hinder him in a fight against Exar circa-JA is another thing entirely.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Incorrect, it was Kun masking his ass kicking of Horn from the hallway just outside from the entire hall of Jedi-including Luke.

And also his presence, which is the only thing that outstands Corran. By that same token, Jaina thinks Luke hasn't shown her a quarter of his power by Dark Nest because of his piloting capabilities; not a valid comparison.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Except Luke being hindered can apply to everything he's done until Specters.

For the most part.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Horn was also explicitly good with Tutaminis, your point?

Nice moving the goalpost, but to address your point. Yes, he is. He isn't better than Luke Skywalker, though. And he stopped absorbing Kyp's assault via tutaminis and started just blocking it with his already errected barrier, and it was successful enough.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Calling them trainees doesn't diminish them, lmfao.

I am aware, but unless you want to argue barely trained Jedi are more capable of drawing on the power of a nexus than one of the most powerful Sith ever... well, your argument falls flat, as usual.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun's spirit is anchored to the Focal Points and sustains itself off of said power, that's it.

And it also draws from said power to attack, you numpty. He can feed himself off that power beyond just appearing in his astral form.

Regarding your quotes, it actually directly notes said power-sources are made to be used by Dark Siders. They can draw on it, sure, but that doesn't make it Light Side energy(again, I mention sources actually noting Jedi becoming more powerful on DS nexuses because they are uncharacteristically willing to draw on said nexus) it is simply used for the purpose of the Light Side.

Originally posted by AncientPower
it's an over-all amplification of his powers, not on department, rofl.

Yet, it's specifically talking that part being

Originally posted by AncientPower
A bunch of trainees, one of whom goes on to be capable of exhausting Luke in combat. He was called Brakiss.

You mean the same Brakiss who only fought an exhausted, holding back Luke, and the same Brakiss that got stomped by an all-out Luke?

"This has gone on long enough, Brakiss. You may either surrender or I'll defeat you directly, because I have work to do. I need to get back to defending my Jedi academy."

"Brakiss showed the faintest glimmer of uncertainty in his normally calm and peaceful eyes when Luke drove in, this time intending to win. Luke struck again with the lightsaber, always maintaining his focus and drive, not letting anger take control, doing only what he wished to do.

The Master of the Shadow Academy defended himself, and Luke saw his chance to strike. He altered his aim just slightly, not striking the energy blade itself. He could have swung lower to take off the hand of his former student, much as Darth Vader had cut off Luke's own hand-but Luke didn't want to maim Brakiss in such a way. He needed only to ruin his weapon.

His lightsaber struck across the top of Brakiss's handle, just below the terminus of the energy beam and above the knuckles of the grip.The top two centimeters of the spiked-claw end of Brakiss's lightsaber sprayed off, sheared away in a smoking, molten mass.

Brakiss shrieked and dropped his sparkling lightsaber to the ground, where it lay useless, smoldering, no longer a weapon, simply a hunk of components... none of which worked."

-- Young Jedi Knights: Jedi Under Seige

He literally ended the fight in two moves.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He's still a spirit.

Further cemented in a second source:

Yeah, no sh!t. And in order to free and re-animate himself, he needs more than just Durron. But that doesn't mean his Force reserves are > Durron's, just that Kyp's power isn't enough to accomplish a task Exar couldn't accomplish anyways.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's both and there's no arguing otherwise.

Yes there is. You're just in denial, lmao.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Streen was the one who caused actual damage to him and then banished his spirit after Kirana Ti and Dorsk 81 cut through him with lightsabers.

Which only happened when Luke himself intervened.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm convinced.

Good; you're making some progress.

Originally posted by MythLord
And it also draws from said power to attack, you numpty. He can feed himself off that power beyond just appearing in his astral
That is not correct.

Exar Kun was barely able to retain his presence with energies accessible to him in the Temples on Yavin 4. Nothing more than that.

"Barely"? Going to need actual proof, given how he's more than just retaining his presence, he's using said Temples to channel his own attacks.

Wow, it just gets worse, I'll see to this later.

Just skimming through, but I feel the need to comment on this:



Emphasis mine.

Firstly, the fact that Yoda happens to be superior to Mace doesn't really prove anything in regards to Vodo and Odan, as the passage isn't highlighting how Yoda compares to Mace, but rather how Yoda and Mace compare to the rest of their Order.

Secondly, the passage doesn't explicitly state that Vodo and Odan are the Order's ultimate authorities, but rather that they're two examples of highly respected masters who possessed great authority in the Old Republic era. It doesn't preclude the possibility of other masters of similar calibre existing. Once again, the fact that this is the case with Mace and Yoda doesn't mean the case is exactly the same for Vodo and Odan; to me, at least, it seemed like there was less of a rigid hierarchy among the masters in TotJ than in the prequels.

Thirdly, while it's true that strength in the Force is highly valued in the Jedi Order, that doesn't mean it's the only considerable factor. Even though Yoda seemed to have lost much of his strength to age in RotJ, I don't think he'd be held in contempt by his fellows were they still alive; his wealth of experience and wisdom has value on it's own, and the same would go for Odan.

Odan is confirmed to be Head of the Jedi Assembly and acts as the Head of the Jedi Conclave on Deneba. The Jedi Assembly, furthermore, is the group of leading Jedi Masters of the Order. For all intents and purposes, the Jedi Grand Master of the Jedi High Council. It was the Exar Kun War that caused the change to an Orthodox Order in the first place.

Whilst you're right that strength is not the sole factor, it is clearly one of the primary ones as the quote states.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Just skimming through, but I feel the need to comment on this:



Emphasis mine.

Firstly, the fact that Yoda happens to be superior to Mace doesn't really prove anything in regards to Vodo and Odan, as the passage isn't highlighting how Yoda compares to Mace, but rather how Yoda and Mace compare to the rest of their Order.

Secondly, the passage doesn't explicitly state that Vodo and Odan are the Order's ultimate authorities, but rather that they're two examples of highly respected masters who possessed great authority in the Old Republic era. It doesn't preclude the possibility of other masters of similar calibre existing. Once again, the fact that this is the case with Mace and Yoda doesn't mean the case is exactly the same for Vodo and Odan; to me, at least, it seemed like there was less of a rigid hierarchy among the masters in TotJ than in the prequels.

Thirdly, while it's true that strength in the Force is highly valued in the Jedi Order, that doesn't mean it's the only considerable factor. Even though Yoda seemed to have lost much of his strength to age in RotJ, I don't think he'd be held in contempt by his fellows were they still alive; his wealth of experience and wisdom has value on it's own, and the same would go for Odan. Good points, Kun takes another L.

Bump

nothing's changed

exar kun stands a solid 42% chance to grand master luke.

da fuq? He doesn't stand a 42% chance against this Luke, in the right mental state nvm GM Luke.

He may have meant 4-2%, that seems more likely.

You mean -4 - 2%. Since quite frankly, Kun's chances are in the negative.

sorry, i mean 20%, it typo because it automatically pasted.