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"Tyth is our new big operation boss. Since Knights of the Fallen Empire and Knights of the Eternal Throne didn't include new operations, many have asked us how Tyth compares to the operation boss for the Shadow of Revan expansion, Revan himself. In answer, he doesn't. Revan remains, to this day the hardest operation boss we've put into the game, and we intended to keep it that way."

---Eric Musco

Not sure how you guys wanna take this, but it could potentially mean that Revan>Tyth.

Or it's just meaning the mechanics of the operation. Don't see why everything has to revolve around a characters power or whatever everytime a statement is made.

Yeah, in a gameplay sense. In no way does that translates to official power.

Jesus Christ.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t641922.html

LETS GOOOOOOOOOO.

Beni seems to be doing alright in that thread.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t641922.html Soooo, the quote is valid then.

He was joking. As you can tell from the double smilies. Or at least I hope you can.

DB77 desperate to elevate Revan beyond anyone barring Valkorion.

Originally posted by Trocity
DB77 desperate to elevate Revan beyond anyone barring Valkorion. There are more than just Valkorion that I won't put Revan equal to or beyond. Luke, entities, Sarasu Taalon (post pool), among others.

Also Plagueis, TPM Sidious, Yoda, Waru, Nyax, Shimrra, Unu'Thul, Vader, some underappreciated RoT Sith... lots of people.

I'd love to debate Revan vs Vader with you, Wollf. You'd lose pretty quickly, BTW.

Want to do it here or CV?

Last time we tried, you started a heated discussion about the f***ing banner being "disgraceful" or some sh!t and never made the thread yerself. So no.

Oh yeah, lmfao. Well the banner was disgraceful, tbh.

We'll do it this summer.

But Chee said!

I don't even remember what the banner looked like, lmao.

Sure. Try to post the Caedus RT by then, plz.

Originally posted by darthbane77
There are more than just Valkorion that I won't put Revan equal to or beyond. Luke, entities, Sarasu Taalon (post pool), among others. Well that's alright then.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Considering ROTS Sidious isn't beyond Valkorion, no I don't.

Nope, he is, factually.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nope, he is, factually.
O rly?

Quotes after 2015, plz. Also, Valkorion isn't even Sith, and, if "sith power" is taken to mean the dark side, then RotS Sidious is canonically > the Son & Abeloth.

Now you're just spewing bullshit, tryna troll.



The point still stands that Sidious > any dark-sider who ever bore evil emotion.

After 2015? Quotes aren't passively retconned; they have to be explicitly retconned. That quote stands. Secondly, a quote in 2015 does name Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord of all.

Regardless, even if you want to play date games, you can't win. Darth Plagueis is established as the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time in 2012, which means he's stronger than vanilla SWTOR Vitiate. Valkorion is also stronger than vanilla SWTOR Vitiate, but that still suggests only relative parity between Plagueis and Valkorion. We also have TPM Palpatine > Plagueis from 2012 as well, so that kind of puts TPM Palpatine above Valkorion, to say nothing of RotS Sidious who enjoys thirteen years of continual growth over TPM Palpatine.

The Son is explicitly stated as possessing power beyond the domain of the Sith, so no, he doesn't use "Sith powers". Neither does Abeloth, whose powers come from the same sources as the Son and Daughter. They're safely excluded from Palpatine's accolade. Valkorion, on the other hand, is not.

Originally posted by Geistalt
The point still stands that Sidious > any dark-sider who ever bore evil emotion. As the source of their strength.





Presumably having known the Sith Code (or held a Sith title).

Per the old SW databank:



So he's safe, and by extension, Abeloth's safe too. Vitiate is a tried and true Sith in origin and his powers originate from the Sith. That he changes bodies and official affiliation and claims to no longer be a Sith doesn't excuse him from that. The powers he wields are very much Sith powers.

Originally posted by SunRazer
After 2015? Quotes aren't passively retconned; they have to be explicitly retconned. That quote stands. Secondly, a quote in 2015 does name Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord of all.

Regardless, even if you want to play date games, you can't win. Darth Plagueis is established as the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time in 2012, which means he's stronger than vanilla SWTOR Vitiate. Valkorion is also stronger than vanilla SWTOR Vitiate, but that still suggests only relative parity between Plagueis and Valkorion. We also have TPM Palpatine > Plagueis from 2012 as well, so that kind of puts TPM Palpatine above Valkorion, to say nothing of RotS Sidious who enjoys thirteen years of continual growth over TPM Palpatine.

The Son is explicitly stated as possessing power beyond the domain of the Sith, so no, he doesn't use "Sith powers". Neither does Abeloth, whose powers come from the same sources as the Son and Daughter. They're safely excluded from Palpatine's accolade. Valkorion, on the other hand, is not.

You took his pathetic soul.

Just like the Outlander took Valkorion's.

SunRazer's at his best tonight.

Destroying all them dumbfvcks with the arguments no one else cares enough to deliver.

Originally posted by Geistalt
with the arguments no one else cares enough to deliver.

https://hopetheanchorformysoul.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/that-is-why-you-fail-yoda.gif

Originally posted by SunRazer
After 2015? Quotes aren't passively retconned; they have to be explicitly retconned. That quote stands. Secondly, a quote in 2015 does name Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord of all.
Which quote?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Regardless, even if you want to play date games, you can't win. Darth Plagueis is established as the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time in 2012, which means he's stronger than vanilla SWTOR Vitiate.
It is an OOU statement and is not corroborated within the in-universe realities of the lore.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Valkorion is also stronger than vanilla SWTOR Vitiate, but that still suggests only relative parity between Plagueis and Valkorion. We also have TPM Palpatine > Plagueis from 2012 as well, so that kind of puts TPM Palpatine above Valkorion, to say nothing of RotS Sidious who enjoys thirteen years of continual growth over TPM Palpatine.
Check this: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/power-progression-and-evolution-of-valkorion/105016/

Vitiate is technically Valkorion at some point between the events of novel and SWTOR. He deviated from the path of Sith after the events of novel.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The Son is explicitly stated as possessing power beyond the domain of the Sith, so no, he doesn't use "Sith powers". Neither does Abeloth, whose powers come from the same sources as the Son and Daughter. They're safely excluded from Palpatine's accolade. Valkorion, on the other hand, is not.
The Son has demonstrated "Sith powers" in his exploits. The Databank has been revised. Old pages hold no value.

Abeloth has also demonstrated "Sith powers" in her exploits.

Valkorion has also demonstrated "Sith powers" in his exploits but some of his powers are not technically/logically "Sith powers." Such powers are simply identified as DARK in KoTFE and KoTET.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Per the old SW databank:



So he's safe, and by extension, Abeloth's safe too. Vitiate is a tried and true Sith in origin and his powers originate from the Sith. That he changes bodies and official affiliation and claims to no longer be a Sith doesn't excuse him from that. The powers he wields are very much Sith powers.
See above.

1. This one:



Although it's April 2015 and KotFE was October 2015. But as I said, the date game isn't a valid one to play.

2. OOU statements are the indisputable ones. Besides, it goes hand-in-hand with Plagueis' IU claim that he was was unequaled in power in all of Sith history to his knowledge.

3. I'm treating the codex entry that says he grows stronger when he becomes Valkorion to refer to him after the Ziost incident. If you want to deprive him of any power growth since vanilla SWTOR, then that only proves that Plagueis > Vitiate.

4. I just posted the quote saying that the Son's power was beyond the domain of the Sith Lords. By proxy, Abeloth, whose power was also sourced from the Font of Power (and the Pool of Knowledge), is also beyond the domain of the Sith Lords. There is no dispute here.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. This one:



Although it's April 2015 and KotFE was October 2015. But as I said, the date game isn't a valid one to play.
That source represents a compilation of some older stories into a single package as a reprint.

That accolade takes Palpatine's political power into consideration alongwith his command of the Dark Side.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. OOU statements are the indisputable ones. Besides, it goes hand-in-hand with Plagueis' IU claim that he was was unequaled in power in all of Sith history to his knowledge.
In-universe writing format is the only method for establishing FACTS in science fiction because those FACTS are not true for our world (OOU). This is why majority of books pertaining to a science fiction saga have in-universe conceit.

OOU statements are 'subjective interpretations' of developments in science fiction; they are like 'personal opinion' of an author or a publisher regarding developments in science fiction. For example, an OOU source identified Revan as a Jedi Knight during the events of novel. However, Revan is a Jedi Master at this point in time. OOU statements are not indisputable for developments in science fiction; they can be easily scrutinized instead.

Ask any writer why he chose in-universe conceit for a book pertaining to Star Wars.

Originally posted by SunRazer
3. I'm treating the codex entry that says he grows stronger when he becomes Valkorion to refer to him after the Ziost incident. If you want to deprive him of any power growth since vanilla SWTOR, then that only proves that Plagueis > Vitiate.
The codex revelation is not wrong. Vitiate was growing in power with passage of time because he continued to feed on life-force of other beings non-stop.

Valkorion (corporeal) > Vitiate as of Ziost. He packs all that power and then some.

Originally posted by SunRazer
4. I just posted the quote saying that the Son's power was beyond the domain of the Sith Lords. By proxy, Abeloth, whose power was also sourced from the Font of Power (and the Pool of Knowledge), is also beyond the domain of the Sith Lords. There is no dispute here.
That does not makes sense. The Old Databank is done and dusted.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
makes sense

^^^

What powers are beyond the domain of Sith?

The Darth Plagueis blurb is written in universe you moron. Not that you aren't just making up rules anyway as previously discussed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The Darth Plagueis blurb is written in universe you moron. Not that you aren't just making up rules anyway as previously discussed.
Blurbs are marketing statements; they are OOU.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/book-blurbs/

http://www.bookcovercafe.com/how-to-write-a-blurb-for-your-fiction-book/

And no! I have checked various discussions on different platforms to understand what constitutes in-universe and OOU and their relevance to work of fiction.

Did you try the dictionary?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That source represents a compilation of some older stories into a single package as a reprint.

Yeah, a reprint means it's being printed... again. That means it simply "reapplies", though as I said, dates don't matter.

Secondly, the quote itself is new, not reprinted.



Not seeing it.



Facts in our world are incontrovertible, lol. Facts in-universe can be restricted by limited knowledge, unreliable narration, etc. which doesn't apply to OOU commentary.

Regardless, it's actually an in-universe statement, as indicated by the limitation of knowledge (it only goes up to Plagueis' time, not beyond).



So I didn't need correcting but you decided to do it anyway? lol Okay.



A source is never "done and dusted", lmao. Unless it's explicitly retconned, which this one isn't.

The quote's as clear as it gets. The Son's powers do not originate from the Sith and are in fact beyond the domain of the Sith Lords. You're in denial.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, a reprint means it's being printed... again. That means it simply "reapplies", though as I said, dates don't matter.

Secondly, the quote itself is new, not reprinted.
Reprint in this case is not an update or expansion of older content.

Provide evidence.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Not seeing it.
Here:

With the galaxy now ripe for conquest, the Emperor has become the most powerful Sith Lord of all and a master of the Dark Side of the Force

Cannot be more explicit then that. Conquest of galaxy is the criteria that puts Palpatine above all his (Sith) predecessors because no Sith has managed it before. The statement acknowledges Palpatine as a master of the Dark Side of the Force separately from the criteria that affirms his supremacy over all Sith in history.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Facts in our world are incontrovertible, lol. Facts in-universe can be restricted by limited knowledge, unreliable narration, etc. which doesn't apply to OOU commentary.

Regardless, it's actually an in-universe statement, as indicated by the limitation of knowledge (it only goes up to Plagueis' time, not beyond).
Facts in our world are irrelevant to facts in the Star Wars saga.

In-universe source can be definitive (absolute) or an account of characters who are part of the science fiction universe. Characters are fallible in the same manner as humans are fallible in real-life but a definitive source is not.

A short description of a book, film, or other product written for promotional purposes. (Definition of blurb)

Blurb on the back cover of a book (or 'book blurb' in short) - irrespective of its theme or message - is a marketing statement (intended to generate sales) and strictly OOU in nature. Even if a blurb is highlighting the central theme of the story on the back cover of a book - it is offering you an OOU perspective of it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
So I didn't need correcting but you decided to do it anyway? lol Okay.
I had to clear any doubt.

Originally posted by SunRazer
A source is never "done and dusted", lmao. Unless it's explicitly retconned, which this one isn't.
Your grasp of explicit retcons seems to be faulty or subjective.

The old Databank was taken down and replaced with a new Databank with more refined description of stuff in Star Wars saga. This is an explicit retcon.

Definition # 1 - A subsequent revision of an established story in film, TV, video games, or comics

OR

Definition # 2 - To later revise (an established element of a fictional story)

Writers don't have to issue a disclaimer that the old Databank is null and void. Use your common sense.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The quote's as clear as it gets. The Son's powers do not originate from the Sith and are in fact beyond the domain of the Sith Lords. You're in denial.
That makes ZERO sense.

The Son might be more ancient than the Sith but one of the earliest known practitioners of the Dark Side of the Force and has learned/demonstrated powers that are identified as "Sith powers" in some sources.

Nothing is beyond the domain of the Sith Lords by the way. They crave absolute power and their is no limit to their ambition in this regard.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Reprint in this case is not an update or expansion of older content.

Provide evidence.

Uh, the fact that it's never appeared anywhere before? Name me a source where the quote's appeared before.

Obviously the quote's new if it's part of the internal flap/blurb of an unprecedented collection. Those comics haven't been collected together yet; this was the first time, and the quote was part of either the blurb or internal flap.



Nope, it mentions that the galaxy is ripe for conquest, not that Palpatine has done it already. Not to mention it claims that he orders the destruction of the Jedi after the fact. And mastery of the Force is not the same as power in the Force, so of course they can be distinct. Though the "and" can clearly be interpreted as binding the two together.



Yet it's clearly in-universe as it doesn't even know if Plagueis ever died, lol.



No, you just couldn't read. You literally attempted to correct me by repeating what I said.



The new databank was set up for Canon, whereas the old one was Legends. That's why they created the new one... the old one is still relevant to Legends, lmfao.

No elements of any story were revised, lol.



No idea what you're talking about. The Son was around long before any of the Sith, and his powers originated both before the Sith and independently of them. No Sith has a Celestial background and no Sith's powers have ever originated from the Font of Power. There's nothing hard to believe here; his powers are simply beyond the domain of the Sith and we have every reason to believe as much even without the quote.

You're just making incoherent screams of "it doesn't make sense" because you're in denial.

Also, don't you believe the Force & Destiny quote that claims that Sidious may be the most powerful Sith ever as meaning that he's on Valkorion's level, with it being possible for either to be stronger? IIRC, that refers to RotS Sidious, and DE Sidious is far more powerful than that.

Bump.

The way Eric worded this seems to imply both at once.

Or, y'know, it could have something to do with the fact that Revan's infinitely more lore-relevant and popular than some random robot god.