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" skill with a lightsaber is matched only by Master Yoda." - Force Collection

The above quote seems to suggest that Dooku, as of AotC, is greater than Mace.

http://i.imgur.com/IloLb9G.png
- Galactic Files

I also found this quote, which says Anakin "easily" bested Dooku.

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Anyway, I again restate my belief that:

Dooku and Mace were rough equals as Jedi, but Dooku was slightly better.

Dooku improved after leaving the Jedi Order and was above Mace in AotC.

Dooku stagnated during the Clone Wars due to political duties and whatnot.

Mace eventually became equals with Dooku during the later pars of the war.

By Revenge of the Sith, Mace (low 9, high 8) finally surpassed Dooku (8).

Ooh, pretty gewd.

Good finds.

Although I have to disagree with you on the Mace/Dooku thing:

-Mace was better as a Jedi

-Dooku surpassed him in AotC

-Mace never surpassed him in raw skill, but is still the better duelost by RotS due to his superior physical augmentation

Originally posted by Azronger
-Mace was better as a Jedi
The reasoning I say Dooku was better was based on Yoda's DR quote.

Yoda seems to suggest Dooku was his best pupil, not Mace.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The reasoning I say Dooku was better was based on Yoda's DR quote.

Yoda seems to suggest Dooku was his best pupil, not Mace.

That could be including Force powers. There're quotess which explicitly state TPM Mace > TPM Dooku in dueling

Got a quote? I got a quote saying Dooku and Mace were equals in dueling as Jedi.

I'd favor Dooku slightly though due to a Force advantage. Still seems like a 5.5/4.5 split though.

Let's see what we got here regarding them as Jedi:

Dooku > Mace:

- "Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective." - Power of the Jedi Sourcebook

- "Dooku had been reckoned one of the foremost duellists in the Jedi Order, second only to Master Yoda." - The Official Star Wars Fact File #60

Dooku = Mace:

- "Before leaving the Jedi Order, he was known as one of its greatest duelists, a match even for Mace Windu." - The Clone Wars: Heroes and Villains

- "He assisted in Dooku's combat training and as a result, the Padawan became especially proficient with a lightsaber. Only Masters Yoda and Mace Windu were considered to be on equal terms with him." - Insider #109

- "Only Mace himself ever mastered it, and it was reckoned that only Master Yoda and Dooku were ever able to match Windu with a lightsaber." - The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #25

Mace > Dooku:

- "Under Yoda's tutelage, Dooku became one of the greatest sword masters the Order had ever produced - eclipsed only by Mace Windu and Yoda himself." - The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #48

--- --- ---

I'm inclined to put them as rough equals as Jedi with Dooku ever so slightly superior due to a minor Force edge.

I honestly agree with all of this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku and Mace were rough equals as Jedi, but Dooku was slightly better.

Dooku improved after leaving the Jedi Order and was above Mace in AotC.

Dooku stagnated during the Clone Wars due to political duties and whatnot.

Mace eventually became equals with Dooku during the later pars of the war.

By Revenge of the Sith, Mace (low 9, high 8) finally surpassed Dooku (8).
Sas, thoughts?

I don't agree that Dooku somehow stagnated... There's no real reason to think that.

Stagnated relative to other characters (Kenobi, Anakin, Mace). There's little indication or showcase of substantial growth.

Just that he started in AotC as one of the two powerhouses of the Clone Wars, but then ended in RotS as one of four.

Hmm, yeah, his power-growth is undoubtably substantially lesser than that of Mace, Annie or Kenobi.

Do you have a specific issue for the Galactic Files? I'm going to assume both are Legends.

So Force Collection was referring to Dooku as of AotC? Then that suggests that his growth from TPM to AotC is pretty significant, since AotC Mace > TPM Dooku as a swordsman.

Galactic Files are trading cards.

Yeah. It was Dooku's AotC card.



Quote?

Why does his AotC card feature Anakin beheading him? Most of the source talks about RotS, not AotC...

You posted it above. This one:



Goes up to AotC apparently, though Dooku leaves the Order in TPM and thus the quote doesn't apply to him further than that.

http://i.imgur.com/iItlYtW.jpg

^ This is the card listed alongside the description. That's AotC Dooku.

What's the indicator that's referring up to AotC and not the TPM era, in which I'd write it off as being contradicted by others sources?

If you got one, then it seems:

RotS Mace > RotS Dooku >= AotC Dooku > AotC Mace > TPM Dooku >= TPM Mace.

Seems like it. As for the indicator, ask someone who has the source, lol. Preferrably Myth or GreySentinel on CV.

Besides, your latest flow chart looks more reasonable than the last one.

I'm not sure what the difference is between my "current flowchart" and my "last one," tbh.

Fine, your latest flow chart looks reasonable enough.

The title had me thinking that they'd be an actual Mace quote, lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Fine, your latest flow chart looks reasonable enough.

The title had me thinking that they'd be an actual Mace quote, lol.

Ever seen these?:

http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Non-Sport/89943/89943-6388294Fr.jpg
http://www.tradingcarddb.com/Images/Cards/Non-Sport/82456/82456-5864231Bk.jpg

I don't think Dooku has any quote saying he's better than Yoda. Mace does, though.

Which, again, further indicates to Mace's eventual superiority to Dooku in ROTS.

Yeah, there's Gillard in AotC-related material saying Yoda is outright better than Mace.

Where's the quote about Yoda being significantly superior? I want to see all quotes on their AotC duel.

Well that quote of Mace > Yoda refers to post-AotC. *shrugs* Point being, it's better than anything Dooku has.

I'm too busy to compile them all now, but if memory serves me right, the junior novel, the script, and the comic suggest Yoda >>> Dooku.

In regards to tertiary source quotes, I'd have to check. I imagine some say Yoda easily won though.

Those three depict an older version of the fight. The junior novel has Yoda stonewalling only; the part where he goes on the offensive is completely omitted. The script and comic feature Dooku drawing two lightsabers which was scrapped. The film seems to be the "final version" they settled on, with the novel aligning with that most closely by far. Both show Dooku contending with Yoda despite losing, both in the duel and in the saberlock. Plus the novel having Yoda turn aside Dooku's Lightning "far from easily".

And there's about eight secondary sources praising Dooku's performance. Not to mention Yoda himself praising Dooku at the end of their fight.

I imagine he's a high 8 as well, just with no chance of being a 9 like Mace.

And for what it's worth, even Ventress/Grievous have quotes saying they can match or beat the best of the Jedi.

Originally posted by SunRazer
And for what it's worth, even Ventress/Grievous have quotes saying they can match or beat the best of the Jedi.
Those are hyperbole / action figure quotes, tbh. Not really the same.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Those are hyperbole / action figure quotes, tbh. Not really the same.

Card quotes aren't any better than action figure quotes, lmao.

Mace's "unparalleled prowess" quote is hyperbole in the same vein. Even Cin Drallig has a quote like that. So does Yoda in Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force.

The one about Mace possibly being the best in the Order is matched by Yoda possibly being the best duelist ever.

So it's only the first one you posted.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Card quotes aren't any better than action figure quotes, lmao.
Eh, I'd disagree. Action figures descriptions are blatantly there to buy a product. The card descriptions come after the product is bought. It's inclined to be more reasonable and less hyperbole-based.

No, they're on par, lol. Quotes from little playthings are pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

Well... I disagree, lmfao. Regardless, what are you contending here anyway in regards to my flowchart? I sort of skimmed over your last couple posts.

I said I agreed with your latest flowchart.

By the way, the new Official Star Wars Fact File #34 from August 2014 commended Dooku's performance and claimed that Yoda might've had a "slight edge" but that they were otherwise "almost equals". Some SW official also posted it on Twitter, IIRC.

There actually are two quotes that suggest Dooku is a more skilled swordsman than Yoda, at least with regards to their skill in Makashi, if nothing else.

Yeah, but that's just Makashi.