Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

These are from the new release of the Fact Files. They include Legends content in error, but are intended to directed toward the new Canon continuity.

In particular, check out the Mace Windu section. A unique description of Vaapad is provided.

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Yoda vs Count Dooku:

http://i.imgur.com/HtzKe6v.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TPRkxPX.jpg

Darth Sidious vs the Brothers

http://i.imgur.com/hLVyuDJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/om1Jj3S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KShdOxt.jpg

Mace Windu:

http://i.imgur.com/1O92DcY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PYjHato.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Vk9Cm69.jpg (check out)

Yoda:

http://i.imgur.com/EDRRWeS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/84WNvvI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cmojE3e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lci5WVC.jpg (check out)

http://i.imgur.com/PIBpK2C.jpg

Count Dooku:

http://i.imgur.com/yR77JtN.jpg (check out)

http://i.imgur.com/NwKBPRg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/P6B4WSQ.jpg

Balance of the Force:

http://i.imgur.com/QYT3gah.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Vaz3ELh.jpg

"With powers on a par with Yoda".

Although it seems the claims of Yoda realizing his future lay elsewhere and whatever else are finally proven.

Who's that regarding? I haven't read them all yet.

Mace.

It also claims that Mace had Sidious down for real and that Palpatine was genuinely saved only by Anakin.

There's also Sidious being "impossibly powerful" and Palpatine beating Opress only "almost casually".

For Yoda vs Dooku, the first one has Yoda just beginning to get an advantage in the fight, which prompted Dooku's retreat, but no explicit winner emerged.

Retconned / inconsistent with higher canonical sources, but still neat.

Eh, there's no direct contradiction to the notion Palpatine was faking, tbh.

Yeah, after reading through them, most of these (possibly all) are reprints of older Legends fact files. I recognize the exact wording in some of them, particularly the Dooku ones.

The same happened with Insider.

EDIT: This isn't the reprint; this is the actual one. These are old, not new.

Originally posted by SunRazer
For Yoda vs Dooku, the first one has Yoda just beginning to get an advantage in the fight, which prompted Dooku's retreat, but no explicit winner emerged.
Then oddly they contradict themselves in my later link, saying Yoda won easily, lmfao.

Yeah, just saw that one. The same one claims that Palpatine and Yoda effectively drew.

lol On this one it says Dooku was driven back and barely escaped with his life, then on the same page says that they were almost equals with Yoda possibly having a slight edge.

http://imgur.com/TPRkxPX

Star Wars inconsistent af.

One claims that Maul beat Grievous easily and that Talzin drained Dooku's energies until she could possess him, suggesting that she couldn't possess him outright. Also confirmation that Dooku + Sidious > Maul + Talzin, but I have that on my RT already.

Ah, and this is where those Sidious vs Maul/Savage quotes comes from. What's the issue number? I have the images in my RT but didn't know which ones they were from.

Was that Vaapad stuff new? With the explosion of power and all?

Never mind, these aren't reprints. These are the actual ones, which makes most of them old. Still 2013-2014ish, but not exactly "new" like you had us believing.

Anything after the Disney takeover is new to me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Eh, there's no direct contradiction to the notion Palpatine was faking, tbh.

It says Palpatine was saved only by Anakin's intervention, which "finally allowed him to kill the Jedi Master".

That doesn't mean the fight wasn't faked. Just that Palpatine put absolute faith in Anakin.

In regards to "finally allowed him to kill the Jedi Master," it could mean that the timing was now right.

Gotta work with it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Was that Vaapad stuff new? With the explosion of power and all?

Nah, dismissing it on the grounds of other sources would be a superior alternative.

If Palpatine was saved only by Anakin, that means he couldn't save himself.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Was that Vaapad stuff new? With the explosion of power and all?

None of these are reprints. I thought by new you meant that they were just released, so I thought they reprinted some of them.

So these are all the original ones from 2014+ re-run of the Fact Files.

I never heard of that explosion of Force power within Mace thing before. Explains his insane augmentation to Palpatine level, if we want to apply it to Legends.

In Canon, has Vaapad even been mentioned yet?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I never heard of that explosion of Force power within Mace thing before. Explains his insane augmentation to Palpatine level, if we want to apply it to Legends.

Legends has already explained it to us with the RotS novel; he reciprocated Palpatine's Force Speed.



Yeah, in Absolutely Everything You Need To Know.

But not in detail, I believe.

Which never made sense. Mace was just pulling that augmentation out of his ass.

Combining the ROTS novel and this, it actually makes sense and gives Mace enough power for the superconducting loop to be legitimate, IMO.

No, he was able to reciprocate Palpatine's dark side powers (Speed, Lightning). Temp argued that on CV more than a year ago.

Yeah, and where's he getting the energy to do that?

The explosion bubble.

He can't just poof up power to replicate Sidious.

Temp's arguments are now outdated.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t642074.html

We can discuss the Vaapad stuff here.

Let's discuss all the other shit on this thread.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, and where's he getting the energy to do that?

The explosion bubble.

He can't just poof up power to replicate Sidious.

Temp's arguments are now outdated.

1. Well, seems like it, but that's more of the driving force behind Vaapad altogether. Whereas Vaapad is the source of the reciprocation of Palpatine's powers.

2. Nah. Have a read: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/mace-windu-runs-the-old-republic-gauntlet-1777272/?page=2

Where is it?

Hmm, maybe it was another thread. But he does mention it in this thread as well. He's basically suggesting that Vaapad can reciprocate any powers from a dark sider (Palpatine being the limit), and hence it can also reciprocate stuff like Traya's Drain.

I've seen all of these.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, just saw that one. The same one claims that Palpatine and Yoda effectively drew.




I'll add it to the list of rare quotes saying that.

Also says he only ran away due to "the risk" of being killed and the Jedi finishing completely.

Originally posted by SunRazer
One claims that Maul beat Grievous easily




That's 2 out of 3. The first one being inconclusive.

You got the quotes for Maul vs Grievous?

Not sure why you're getting worked up over quotes comprising a "majority" on a certain stance. In that case, some of the quotes we've mentioned here make little difference. The vast majority of quotes continue to support the notion that Palpatine won outright and that Yoda was overwhelmed, just as the vast majority of quotes support the notion of Dooku holding his own against Yoda.

So Palpatine nearly overwhelmed Yoda in lightsaber combat. Nice. Supports the notion that he's better on neutral ground

Seems like it's referring to their duel right before they get into the Senate pod.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You got the quotes for Maul vs Grievous?




http://m.imgur.com/hLVyuDJ?r


"while Maul easily drove Grievous away"

Originally posted by SunRazer

The vast majority of quotes continue to support the notion that Palpatine won outright and that Yoda was overwhelmed,


Yoda was overwhelmed because he fell to the bottom of the Senate room. Yoda did lose because he ran away.

But as far as the combat itself went Yoda matched Palpatine's force powers and supposedly best him in Sabers. As confirmed by the script, Junior Novelisation and the movie itself.

Originally posted by SunRazer
One claims that Maul beat Grievous easily

Edit: Oh, you're referring to the Force push. Nvm.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Seems like it's referring to their duel right before they get into the Senate pod.

Which was on neutral ground

Originally posted by Azronger
So Palpatine nearly overwhelmed Yoda in lightsaber combat. Nice. Supports the notion that he's better on neutral ground


If that was true the Palpatine never would have moved onto the Senate Pod.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If that was true the Palpatine never would have moved onto the Senate Pod.

Well, it could also be that they both simply traded advantages and disadvantages during respective portions of the fight.

So when were these released?

Originally posted by ares834
So when were these released?

2014 at least, but I imagine the scans here are from various Insider issues. However, they seem to be Legends on reflection. Not canon.

Originally posted by Azronger
Which was on neutral ground

Palpatine only threatened to overwhelm him there; he didn't outright overwhelm him.

Hmm so Dooku and Yoda were near equals overall and Dooku was second only to Yoda as a duelist

edit: nevermind

As mentioned earlier these seem full of contradictions and there is some blatantly incorrect information.

Sids is>Yoda regardless of how

I'd like to point out that sidious doesn't actually outright overpower yoda in the force battle in the senior novel. He blasts him while yoda is in midair after outmanuvering him. All the senior novel makes clear is yoda would eventually have lost assuming the force lightning battle had a decisive conclusion(which it doesn;t have). But no source material actually shows that sidious would have been able to maintain control long enough to decisively beat him. And the only sources that actually have the force lightning battle reach a conclusion show sids losing control at the end be it the movie, junior novel, or script.

And you could argue the senior novel supports this with sids deciding to end the lightning exchange and go for outmanuvering yoda and then being a "very very tired old man afterwards.

tulak hord

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Sids is>Yoda regardless of how



How does this fit in with the rest of your post:


Originally posted by Rockydonovang


I'd like to point out that sidious doesn't actually outright overpower yoda in the force battle in the senior novel. He blasts him while yoda is in midair after outmanuvering him. All the senior novel makes clear is yoda would eventually have lost assuming the force lightning battle had a decisive conclusion(which it doesn;t have). But no source material actually shows that sidious would have been able to maintain control long enough to decisively beat him. And the only sources that actually have the force lightning battle reach a conclusion show sids losing control at the end be it the movie, junior novel, or script.

And you could argue the senior novel supports this with sids deciding to end the lightning exchange and go for outmanuvering yoda and then being a "very very tired old man afterwards.

The quotes saying that Palpatine's better. Rocky believes that you can be stronger (by a slight margin) and still effectively draw with someone.

Ah okay. Was just confused what his stance was.