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Saw this one recently.
No prep.
No BFR.
Fight starts on a midtown Manhattan rooftop.

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Sabertooth

Good to see you, C!

The thing about Sabretooth is that he's not very smart or skilled so he'd lose pretty badly.

Originally posted by RadZoa
The thing about Sabretooth is that he's not very smart or skilled so he'd lose pretty badly.

He was trained by the Foreigner.

And he was smart enough to become a major crime lord, defeat Russian super-soldiers with nigh-unbreakable skin or Sinister's Supermen.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He was trained by the Foreigner.

And he was smart enough to become a major crime lord, defeat Russian super-soldiers with nigh-unbreakable skin or Sinister's Supermen. I know, I was just joking about that. I mean I don't know about the instances you talk about but I know Sabretooth is very skilled and intelligent.

Yeah, Sabretooth

Haha what, Sabretooth's probably one of the smarter fighters in Marvel.

^^^yeah, we got that.

Nice to see 'tooth not get lowballed. Thought HMs Nth/flight/HF might be too much.

Should be a good fight.
The HF Nth gives Hawk is close if not even with that ot Tooth and Logan.
Hes only around a 2 to 3 tonner so I wouldnt say he has much if any advantage there.
Senses wise Nth enhances sight significantly but Tooth has the advantage of other senses.
And while skill goes slightly to Tooth experience goes massively to Hawk with past lives.

Honestly too damn close to call IMH0

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He was trained by the Foreigner. What an honour

Originally posted by beatboks
Should be a good fight.
The HF Nth gives Hawk is close if not even with that ot Tooth and Logan.
Hes only around a 2 to 3 tonner so I wouldnt say he has much if any advantage there.
Senses wise Nth enhances sight significantly but Tooth has the advantage of other senses.
And while skill goes slightly to Tooth experience goes massively to Hawk with past lives.

Honestly too damn close to call IMH0
Thats what I'M talkin' 'bout, nice character comparison!

sabretooth is a difficult character to talk about. in some cases he is skilled and smart, in just as much if not more cases he is just a dumb brute that is easily taken out. its very hard to judge him to be honest. i will go with not his best showings and not his worst. i think that would be sabretooth in the red zone and i think creed will get smashed.

Is that Mum-Rah the Everliving?

Tough match. Leaning towards Sabertooth.

Edge to Hawkman. He has the advantage in flight, strength, speed, and experience. He's also one of the toughest SOBs in comics.

Should be enough to overcome tooth's better HF and slightly better skill more often than not.

Lol@ speed and exp. Str? Maybe in the super battle mode.

Meant movement/flight speed, not pure combat speed.

Experience? Yes. He's thousands of years old and has been fighting damn near the whole time.

Strength is arguable, because they're both vague. I think Beatboks' 2-3 ton range for Hawkman is quite low, he's probably closer to 10. Tooth ranges a lot, I guess maybe he could be above that these days

But I have a lot of confidence in Hawkman's durability (he's routinely taken hits from heralds and kept going) and the mace (which give him a range advantage and has hurt heralds)

Why tally experience, if Tooth has the skill edge?

Hawkman has Nth Metal. He wins.

Originally posted by Smurph
Why tally experience, if Tooth has the skill edge? Experience plays into tactics and strategy, which Hawkman is better at than Tooth.

Dunno about 'better', but experience is a big factor in a fight, period.

Experience matters, but there's a ceiling.

Look at a sport like, say, tennis, and Roger Federer now isn't exactly blowing past the Roger Federer in his early 20's. Part of that is just age, but there's also factors like simply getting stale.. You fall into habits and don't really learn like you used to (Some older folks CAN change things up and learn, but most don't, and even can't because of entrenched thinking..)

Originally posted by riv6672
Dunno about 'better', but experience is a big factor in a fight, period. Ra's Al Ghul's has more experience than Batman, but he gets his ass handed to him almost every time. Thor has more experience than the hulk, but he still lose more often than not. Experience only ever means something when you can capitalize on it and hawkman hasn't had the experience of fighting a crazed centuries old assassin with a massive healing factor, claws that can cut through metal, durability that let's him take hits from a guy whose entire body is covered in metal, and is a skilled enough martial artist and soldier that he can present a challenge to another centuries old living weapon.

First, nobody said experience was the determining factor. People need to get off that train.

Second, you just described Hawkman. Except you should substitute "centuries" with "millennia". And substitute "guy whose body is covered in metal" with "Superman" or "Black Adam"

Originally posted by deathslash
Ra's Al Ghul's has more experience than Batman, but he gets his ass handed to him almost every time. Thor has more experience than the hulk, but he still lose more often than not. Experience only ever means something when you can capitalize on it and hawkman hasn't had the experience of fighting a crazed centuries old assassin with a massive healing factor, claws that can cut through metal, durability that let's him take hits from a guy whose entire body is covered in metal, and is a skilled enough martial artist and soldier that he can present a challenge to another centuries old living weapon.

Yes, but most of those are normally examples of a "IS" coming into effect. Be it a C,P or some other IS.

Originally posted by Cogito
First, nobody said experience was the determining factor. People need to get off that train.

Second, you just described Hawkman. Except you should substitute "centuries" with "millennia". And substitute "guy whose body is covered in metal" with "Superman" or "Black Adam" try substituting black Adam and Superman with deathstroke and then we'd have his average.Originally posted by Flyattractor
Yes, but most of those are normally examples of a "IS" coming into effect. Be it a C,P or some other IS. such as?

I dunno. Post some Scans and then I will tell you.

Originally posted by Cogito
Experience? Yes. He's thousands of years old and has been fighting damn near the whole time.

Any time he actually shows that?

No?

I didn't think so.

Originally posted by Cogito
Meant movement/flight speed, not pure combat speed.

Experience? Yes. He's thousands of years old and has been fighting damn near the whole time.

Strength is arguable, because they're both vague. I think Beatboks' 2-3 ton range for Hawkman is quite low, he's probably closer to 10. Tooth ranges a lot, I guess maybe he could be above that these days

But I have a lot of confidence in Hawkman's durability (he's routinely taken hits from heralds and kept going) and the mace (which give him a range advantage and has hurt heralds)

Tbe only feats Hawk has that could be stated as above the 3 tons are carrying things flying. His nth negates gravkty and makes itno longer a strength feat. When you look atwhat he has actually lifted purely with strength there is nothing o er 3 tonns.

Likewise you cant count striking feats with say Nth weapons. Nth increases the striking calability (ah la the claw of horus strikes with the force of a planet which is purenth and mkst his other weapons are only 5% laced with Nth like his mace)). We know he doesnt have the strength to move a planet so its the potential of the metal)

Just saying becajse in a fight Id5see tooth disarmkng him pretty quickly the same way Aquaman did in their fight.especially once he feels the force of one of tbose blows (and I dont necessarily mean by being directly strjck by it but feeling its force strike near)

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Any time he actually shows that?

No?

I didn't think so.

Almost his entire classic JSA appearances show him as tactical because of his centuries of combat experience.

The latest merger of Karter and Carter however not so much as he's becomenmore like a hot heat war hound who fights first and asks questions later. This was shown innthe Gog arc whennhe was just gung ho and by the fact that Jay asked him tontake a step back whennhr briefly took over the reigns from a missing Powergirl.

Originally posted by deathslash
Ra's Al Ghul's has more experience than Batman, but he gets his ass handed to him almost every time. Thor has more experience than the hulk, but he still lose more often than not. Experience only ever means something when you can capitalize on it ....
Agreed.
R'as has longevity, but his experience is limited. He's done the same things over his lifespan.
Thor found a fighting style that works for him and has stuck with it.
I've argued both those points in threads over the years.
HM is one of the few characters whose experience, and use of, is ever even mentioned in-story. I'll give him the nod on that one.