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vs

http://i66.tinypic.com/wstx8k.jpg

Darkseid crush's Michael Moore.

Korvac stomps.

Korvac wins without much problem.

Darkseid Originally posted by operator616
Korvac wins without much problem.
Uh-huh

I say Korvac

Originally posted by abhilegend
Darkseid
Uh-huh

Korvac would undoubtedly win against Darkseid in a raw power battle (at least Pre-FP DS, N52 has been inconsistent). Darkseid's only option is bfr'ing him out of reality, which has been shown to be effective against Korvac. But since CIS is off, i don't think Korvac would give him the chance.

Originally posted by operator616
Korvac would undoubtedly win against Darkseid in a raw power battle (at least Pre-FP DS, N52 has been inconsistent). Darkseid's only option is bfr'ing him out of reality, which has been shown to be effective against Korvac. But since CIS is off, i don't think Korvac would give him the chance.
I don't think so. Darkseid is no more inconsistent than Korvac.
Even a noob Krugarr oneshotted him by trapping him. And even Hazmat oneshot killed him with anti matter.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3313878-16.jpg


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3313879-17.jpg

New 52 would straight up beat him. No if or buts.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't think so. Darkseid is no more inconsistent than Korvac.

New 52 would straight up beat him. No if or buts.

Being pushed back by a rookie JLA and then going toe-to-toe with AM is pretty inconsistent. I don't recall Korvac having such ups and downs.

But admittedly, i was more thinking about pre-FP than N52.

Originally posted by operator616
Being pushed back by a rookie JLA and then going toe-to-toe with AM is pretty inconsistent. I don't recall Korvac having such ups and downs.

But admittedly, i was more thinking about pre-FP than N52.

Fighting AM is a low feat?

Originally posted by operator616
Being pushed back by a rookie JLA and then going toe-to-toe with AM is pretty inconsistent. I don't recall Korvac having such ups and downs.

But admittedly, i was more thinking about pre-FP than N52.
He oneshotted the whole JLA in his very first appearance.

He wasn't going to kill them. All they did was push him back. Beats getting killed by Hazmat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't think so. Darkseid is no more inconsistent than Korvac.
Even a noob Krugarr oneshotted him by trapping him. And even Hazmat oneshot killed him with anti matter.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3313878-16.jpg


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3313879-17.jpg

New 52 would straight up beat him. No if or buts.

Yeah, like i said, krugarr basically manished korvac out of reality which is his weakness. Also krugarr later on managed to defeat a hugely amped dormammu. Granted, not on his own, he was channeling the powers of dr strange and talon iirc. But still, pretty impressive.

That's an alternate hazmat who has anti matter powers.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He oneshotted the whole JLA in his very first appearance.

He wasn't going to kill them. All they did was push him back. Beats getting killed by Hazmat.

He was having problems with the JL across the arc. But fair enough if we're arguing N52. Like i said, i was mostly thinking pre-FP.

Originally posted by Zack M
Fighting AM is a low feat?

No, quite the opposite, it's a high.

Originally posted by operator616
Yeah, like i said, krugarr basically manished korvac out of reality which is his weakness.

What are you talking about?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3313757-27.jpg

It was simply a dimension where his powers didn't work.

It's not his weakness.

And this is relevant how?

So? Is Hazmat now more powerful than Darkseid? Or justice league?

No, he wasn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What are you talking about?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/102593/3313757-27.jpg

It was simply a dimension where his powers didn't work.


It's a dimension beyond physical space. Meaning beyond reality.

Also, Giraud basically did the same thing to him.

http://imgur.com/1PlcBuO

That's why i got the impression that's it's his weakness. Maybe it isn't his weakness per se, but it's a viable option to win against Korvac, which is why i mentioned Darkseid potentially exploiting that.

Originally posted by abhilegend

And this is relevant how?



Thought it worth mentioning in regards to his power level considering he's the one who imprisoned him.

Originally posted by abhilegend

So? Is Hazmat now more powerful than Darkseid? Or justice league?


More powerful than Anti monitor, imo. Prove me wrong.

Originally posted by abhilegend


No, he wasn't.

It's been a while but im 100% sure he was. Im pretty sure you're aware of the instance so im not going to bother and post scans.

Originally posted by operator616
It's a dimension beyond physical space. Meaning beyond reality.

Also, Giraud basically did the same thing to him.

http://imgur.com/1PlcBuO


That's not what it was.

It's not his weakness.

No it isn't. Krugarr wasn't even sorcerer supreme at that point where he imprisoned Korvac.

You're wrong. There you go.

I'm hundred percent sure he wasn't. Oneshotting a whole team, then oneshotting it's biggest gun isn't struggling.

He isn't Thanos who gets his shit kicked in by any and all teams.

DCnU Darkseid undoubtedly wins, imo.

Man, outside that What If, I don't think Korvac has been that impressive. Don't get me wrong, he IS powerful but that alt reality version of him is an outlier that's for sure.

Regarding Korvac vs Kruggar : yes Kruggar was still an apprentice to Dr. Strange/Ancient One and didn't ascend till later when Dual Dormammu killed Dr. Strange/Ancient One and Kruggar took over the title.

Regarding Amalgamation Korvac vs Giraud Phoenix : it fought a hungry PF and was owned supposedly via BFR but what Giraud says after the fight makes you wonder what really happened, "My hunger is satiated.........for now". That must have been some "BFR". LOL

As to the thread, it's a close fight that could go either way pre DCNU Darkseid. Current Darkseid annihilates him though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not what it was. It's not his weakness.

No it isn't. Krugarr wasn't even sorcerer supreme at that point where he imprisoned Korvac.

You're wrong. There you go.

I'm hundred percent sure he wasn't. Oneshotting a whole team, then oneshotting it's biggest gun isn't struggling.

He isn't Thanos who gets his shit kicked in by any and all teams.

Look at you and your one word arguments. My whole point is that it's a potential exploitable option because it's been demonstrated to be effective against Korvac. Im not sure why you're making such a big deal out of this.

OK? Just because he isn't SS doesn't mean he's not powerful. Strange didn't become SS for more than a decade. In fact, his pre-SS feats are just as impressive as his post-SS feats.

then prove me wrong.

He only "one-shotted" the team when he suddenly appeared ambushing them.

http://imgur.com/a/qC2kh

If that's not struggling i don't know what is. Also, my opinion on the matter is in regards to pre-FP DS.

Originally posted by operator616

http://imgur.com/a/qC2kh

If that's not struggling i don't know what is. Also, my opinion on the matter is in regards to pre-FP DS.

That looks like DS being swarmed by the JLA. Seems like it was ineffectual to me. Even when he was stabbed in the eyes, not once did he yell out in pain, and he kept on fighting without missing a beat.

Originally posted by Faceless808
That looks like DS being swarmed by the JLA. Seems like it was ineffectual to me. Even when he was stabbed in the eyes, not once did he yell out in pain, and he kept on fighting without missing a beat.

There were more scans that didn't upload, they pushed him back into the boomtube. And they clearly give him pause throughout the fight. Also that's a JLA who were at the beginning of their careers.

Originally posted by operator616
Look at you and your one word arguments.

And look at you becoming carver.



Because you said its a weakness. It isn't.



Uh-huh. Can you prove that by any measure that's not your opinion? And everyone from Krugarr to Hazmat are now powerful but somehow Justice League merely pushing back Darkseid makes him weak. Classy lowballing.




Already did.



Heh, him oneshotting them is ambushing but them ambushing him is him struggling.

Stay classy carver lite.



Even then you will be wrong.

Originally posted by operator616
There were more scans that didn't upload, they pushed him back into the boomtube. And they clearly give him pause throughout the fight. Also that's a JLA who were at the beginning of their careers.


That surely beats getting killed by Hazmat isn't it?

Originally posted by abhilegend
And look at you becoming carver.


What is this supposed to mean even? That im lowballing? Just because i disagree with you is no reason to suddenly start bashing me.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Because you said its a weakness. It isn't.


My main point is that it's a viable option for pre-FP DS to win.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Uh-huh. Can you prove that by any measure that's not your opinion? And everyone from Krugarr to Hazmat are now powerful but somehow Justice League merely pushing back Darkseid makes him weak. Classy lowballing.



Prove what? That Strange's pre-SS is just as powerful as post? Sure.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Heh, him oneshotting them is ambushing but them ambushing him is him struggling.



He appeared suddenly out of nowhere. That's exactly what ambushing means. When the JLA were attacking him, he knew that he was in a fight. Pretty simple really.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Stay classy carver lite.


This is unnecessary.

Originally posted by abhilegend


That surely beats getting killed by Hazmat isn't it?

An alternate Hazmat who had anti matter powers? How should i know?

Originally posted by operator616
What is this supposed to mean even? That im lowballing? Just because i disagree with you is no reason to suddenly start bashing me.


I'm not bashing you. I'm telling what I see.

Maybe, maybe not. It's not a weakness though.

No, about Krugarr.

No, that's the other way around. Try to keep up.

And they didn't force him back. Superman did and even then he overpowered Superman like nothing.

Yes, quit while you're ahead.

I don't know, you're the one arguing Korvac getting killed by Hazmat isn't a low showing.

So prove it wise guy.

Also remember that HALF of Darkseid's Omega Beams were capable of utterly KOing the likes of Superman earlier in that arc.

In the end, all the heroes did was slightly push Darkseid back(a task they BARELY managed), and close a boom tube behind him -- in no way/shape/form were they legitimately more powerful than him overall. Aside from that, Darkseid's status as a full-fledged universal being has since been established multiple times, and is now incontrovertible fact -- so if anything, that is just a VERY high-end feat for the League, imo.

Im not even arguing n52 DS here. My original statement was in regards to pre-FP DS. Also, i wasn't saying that the league is more powerful than him just that there was a certain power gap between his showings in the first JLA arc and his AM fight.

But a discussion with Abhi can only end one way, so im not going through that route.

Originally posted by operator616
Im not even arguing n52 DS here. My original statement was in regards to pre-FP DS. Ah, okay... Missed that.

'pologies.

Michael Korvac has several different powerlevels depending on the incarnation, ranging from low herald to skyfatherish, so on average DS should beat him handily.

Regarding the anti-matter showing vs Hazmat, let's remember that this was not peak Korvac. The version that got originally obliterated by Red Skull -which was the one affected by anti-matter in the first place- appeared after the original Korvac sent his powers into the timestream. It was never explained how we got that version of Korvac up and running in 616 after Korvac was captured as a baby in the future. That iteration of the character also regained his mechanical look and did not display any fancy powers at all, aside from shields, nothing he did seems outside the capabilities of regular computer Korvac (the one that originally fought Dr. Strange). How or why was he recreated with his Power Cosmic physique on his next appearence is anybody's guess - his continuity is shitty like that.

Also there is the fact Korvac never defeated anyone worth a dime even at his peak, so we'd need to be quite generous to give Korvac the win here.

Originally posted by Bentley
Michael Korvac has several different powerlevels depending on the incarnation, ranging from low herald to skyfatherish, so on average DS should beat him handily.

Regarding the anti-matter showing vs Hazmat, let's remember that this was not peak Korvac. The version that got originally obliterated by Red Skull -which was the one affected by anti-matter in the first place- appeared after the original Korvac sent his powers into the timestream. It was never explained how we got that version of Korvac up and running in 616 after Korvac was captured as a baby in the future. That iteration of the character also regained his mechanical look and did not display any fancy powers at all, aside from shields, nothing he did seems outside the capabilities of regular computer Korvac (the one that originally fought Dr. Strange). How or why was he recreated with his Power Cosmic physique on his next appearence is anybody's guess - his continuity is shitty like that.

Also there is the fact Korvac never defeated anyone worth a dime even at his peak, so we'd need to be quite generous to give Korvac the win here.

the herald Korvac is the one without the Galactus power up, and i doubt anybody would use that version. Korvac's most famous arcs are from the time when he became the god-like being after his absorption of said power up, and while he didn't face anyone who is really powerful, he was far above the combined might of the avengers and even commented that he's above Odin (though the legitimacy of that comment is questionable).

Originally posted by operator616
the herald Korvac is the one without the Galactus power up, and i doubt anybody would use that version. Korvac's most famous arcs are from the time when he became the god-like being after his absorption of said power up, and while he didn't face anyone who is really powerful, he was far above the combined might of the avengers and even commented that he's above Odin (though the legitimacy of that comment is questionable).
Just like Darkseid was shown above the combined might of JLA and the likes of Trigon were stated to be less powerful than him.

And speaking of pre Flashpoint, let's use true form Darkseid from Final Crisis and see how Korvac does against him?

Originally posted by operator616
Im not even arguing n52 DS here. My original statement was in regards to pre-FP DS. Also, i wasn't saying that the league is more powerful than him just that there was a certain power gap between his showings in the first JLA arc and his AM fight.

But a discussion with Abhi can only end one way, so im not going through that route.
I accept your concession.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Just like Darkseid was shown above the combined might of JLA and the likes of Trigon were stated to be less powerful than him.

Who are you arguing with? Because i never made a case for N52 DS against Korvac.

Originally posted by abhilegend

And speaking of pre Flashpoint, let's use true form Darkseid from Final Crisis and see how Korvac does against him?

Korvac stomps with hands behind his back. That weakling got beaten by batman.

Originally posted by operator616
Who are you arguing with? Because i never made a case for N52 DS against Korvac.

Really? Because you seem to arguing a lot against him.

Seriously?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? Because you seem to arguing a lot against him.


I was arguing in his favor against pre-FP DS, do you really think id have given Korvac a win against N52 Darkseid "without much effort"? Because that's what i said in my initial post: That Korvac wins without much problem. Even if i was willing to grant Korvac the win against N52 Darkseid i would have at least mentioned that it would be a great fight considering his battle with the AM. I feel like you're trying to force me into an argument im not willing to make.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Seriously?

My answer was as serious as your (rhetorical) question. Pitting the multiversal Darkseid against Korvac, because clearly, that was the OP's intention.

Can we stop the hate for a second, and reflect on how, no matter the side you're arguing for, being called Carver is still an insult.

Originally posted by operator616
I was arguing in his favor against pre-FP DS, do you really think id have given Korvac a win against N52 Darkseid "without much effort"? Because that's what i said in my initial post: That Korvac wins without much problem. Even if i was willing to grant Korvac the win against N52 Darkseid i would have at least mentioned that it would be a great fight considering his battle with the AM. I feel like you're trying to force me into an argument im not willing to make.

Korvac would defeat New 52 Darkseid with some effort. The power level he exhibits would be too much. The battle with Anti-monitor has been exaggerated with regard to its magnitude.

Didn't Powergirl stalemate Darkseid and snatched his eye out while at the same time dodging his omegas.?

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Korvac would defeat New 52 Darkseid with some effort. The power level he exhibits would be too much. The battle with Anti-monitor has been exaggerated with regard to its magnitude.



Like him absorbing universes for one.

Originally posted by carver9


Like him absorbing universes for one.

That is based on Grail's contradictory hyperbole. He doesn't absorb any universes.

Darkseid. Current, that is.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
That is based on Grail's contradictory hyperbole. He doesn't absorb any universes.

Agreed since we seen an earth still visible from a Universe he supposedly absorbed.

Originally posted by carver9
Agreed since we seen an earth still visible from a Universe he supposedly absorbed.

Exactly. AM also reassures Metron that he is destroying no universes and I think Luther confirms that all AM does is devistate the surface of that Earth and absorb the souls of the dead.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Korvac would defeat New 52 Darkseid with some effort. The power level he exhibits would be too much. The battle with Anti-monitor has been exaggerated with regard to its magnitude. Originally posted by carver9
Didn't Powergirl stalemate Darkseid and snatched his eye out while at the same time dodging his omegas.? Originally posted by carver9


Like him absorbing universes for one. Originally posted by TheHulkster
That is based on Grail's contradictory hyperbole. He doesn't absorb any universes.


This circle jerk is hilarious.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Exactly. AM also reassures Metron that he is destroying no universes and I think Luther confirms that all AM does is devistate the surface of that Earth and absorb the souls of the dead.
Really? Care to prove that?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? Care to prove that?

Become literate. Read the book. Cry. In that order.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Become literate. Read the book. Cry. In that order.
So no proof? Good to know.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So no proof? Good to know.

You've been shown this multiple times. But again, here is the entire conversation between Metron and AM:

https://comicnewbies.com/2015/05/13/what-the-anti-monitor-wants/

Metron points out that AM has destroyed countless universes that are then reborn. Whenever AM destroys a universe, he is reborn along with it as stated in the linked scan:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--VN5Daf_2Ww/UtrY5_5NuXI/AAAAAAAAARY/JYmQ7kjJO1E/s1600/scan46.jpg

Metron suspects that this reborn AM is planning to do this to the current universe and states that he has already begun buy consuming the energy of Earth 3. If Metron thinks that consuming the energy of Earth 3 is the BEGINNING of destroying the universe, then clearly AM has not destroyed/consumed a universe. Plus, AM reassures him that he is not going to destroy reality. So clearly, this AM has not consumed a universe and never does.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
You've been shown this multiple times. But again, here is the entire conversation between Metron and AM:

https://comicnewbies.com/2015/05/13/what-the-anti-monitor-wants/

Metron points out that AM has destroyed countless universes that are then reborn. Whenever AM destroys a universe, he is reborn along with it as stated in the linked scan:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--VN5Daf_2Ww/UtrY5_5NuXI/AAAAAAAAARY/JYmQ7kjJO1E/s1600/scan46.jpg

Metron suspects that this reborn AM is planning to do this to the current universe and states that he has already begun buy consuming the energy of Earth 3. If Metron thinks that consuming the energy of Earth 3 is the BEGINNING of destroying the universe, then clearly AM has not destroyed/consumed a universe. Plus, AM reassures him that he is not going to destroy reality. So clearly, this AM has not consumed a universe and never does.
That's before Grail finds him and Anti Monitor starts killing and absorbing universes as later seen in Forever Evil.

It's a flashback idiot.

But I like how you acknowledge Anti Monitor as Destroyer of universes but when he actually destroyed a universe he was just absorbing souls of the humans which he has never done.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's before Grail finds him and Anti Monitor starts killing and absorbing universes as later seen in Forever Evil.

It's a flashback idiot.

But I like how you acknowledge Anti Monitor as Destroyer of universes but when he actually destroyed a universe he was just absorbing souls of the humans which he has never done.

We never see AM killing and absorbing universes and no such killing and absorbing universes is ever referenced beyond Grail. Grail describes what we see in the page as AM having absorbed all the power he could from that universe. Thus, according to her, absorbing a single planet's energy is all the power he is able to absorb from a universe. So he is apparently a chump LOL.

Of course, Metron's statement is what makes more sense to those who don't share your dimwittedness and he is referencing the same scene as Grail. AM absorbs the energy of a single planet. Grail clearly uses some weird hyperbole and is apparently going to do no more than find more planets for him to ravage.

Oh and yes, AM does destroy universes during COIE using his antimatter cannon. We all know that. He doesn't destroy any universes this time around and says that he isn't going to do so, but in your infinitesimal wisdom, you believe that Grail changes his mind LOL!

And pardon me. I said souls, yet the book says he killed five billion three hundred ten thousand forty-five people and absorbed their residual energies. So maybe residual energies is the same as souls or maybe not. And it is Batman not Luther who says this. An even more reliable source. Both Batman and GL reference the devastation of Earth 3 and no more and at this point, AM is already fighting Darkseid. So where is the subsequent damage?

http://www.newsarama.com/images/i/000/155/740/original/justl_44_2.jpg

Face it. You are wrong again. Cry more.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
We never see AM killing and absorbing universes and no such killing and absorbing universes is ever referenced beyond Grail.

Which you conveniently ignored. But it'd never mentioned again, huh?

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Justice-League-48-3.jpg

Oh right it is referenced again.




And absorbed the power from the whole universe means it was a single planet. Makes sense in bizarro world I guess.



He was killing worlds only before he met Grail. After that he destroyed and absorbed entire universes.

"Anti Monitor annihilated world's after worlds including theirs before he met Grail".

Earth three wasn't destroyed by Anti Monitor because it was before he met Grail.

Yeah and its not your sheer hate for anything about DC Comics that's talking.

GTFOH idiot.

Right, some more whinings from you.

https://www.flickeringmyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Justice-League-48-3.jpg

Read and weep marvel zombie.

Wow, your understanding and comprehension are pretty poor. Let me put it clearly. No references are made to him absorbing universes in preparation for his fight against Darkseid after Grail makes her statement. I'm not talking about a reference to him ravaging planets or when he destroys universes multiple realities ago. I'm talking about what he does in preparation for Darkseid in the current reality at the time.

He doesn't absorb any universes because he tells Metron that he isn't going to do so and no indication is given by Batman and GL that this has occurred while the battle with Darkseid is going on. It doesn't happen. Stop making things up. Just go into a dark room alone and cry.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Wow, your understanding and comprehension are pretty poor. Let me put it clearly. No references are made to him absorbing universes in preparation for his fight against Darkseid after Grail makes her statement.

You seem to be of mind that it needs to be referenced again and again to be valid. It doesn't.

He only killed planets BEFORE meeting Grail. That's clearly stated and Earth 3 was one of those planets.

Weep marvel zombie, weep.

Still ignoring that it was a flashback and he started absorbing universes AFTER that?

Good. Cry more to someone who cares.

Korvac.

Iron Man 15 is the beginning of it. Tony gets a lot of shine in it.

And a broken neck, yeah, it's a great arc. Tbh, I've always felt Enemy Korvac is underrated on this forum.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
And a broken neck, yeah, it's a great arc. Tbh, I've always felt Enemy Korvac is underrated on this forum.

He had a lot of reason to be up until this latest run in Iron Man. We now know that he should be well above Eternity if he is able to decimate the Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
And a broken neck, yeah, it's a great arc. Tbh, I've always felt Enemy Korvac is underrated on this forum.
If anything, he's OVERRATED. His most impressive showing was in a What If and even his best feat in mainstream Marvel happened off-panel (the LT and IB 'fight') so we don't know the context behind it.

because eternity is not below LT anymore, but above. eternity is currently at the top

Originally posted by abhilegend
Spectre is easily more powerful than LT at this point by any metric, feat or otherwise.

unless you are talking hal spectre with logoz or peak coie spectre

i dont see any other version compete with pre secret wars LT

Nope, LT is garbage

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope, LT is garbage

LT stands for Literally Trash.

Sorry about the typos.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
"His Avys are mostly weak compared to LT".

Agreed. But not all are. Now combine the ones who aren't weak compared to LT, together.

Power is meaningless when high levels of reality manipulation is involved. Darkseid has never shown dimensional control on that level. A slap in the face and a BFR to the worst Super neighborhood is all that it would take.

Originally posted by MrMind
because eternity is not below LT anymore, but above. eternity is currently at the top ???

Originally posted by ODG
???

Multi eternity is above living tribunal post secret wars

Originally posted by ODG
???

https://i.ibb.co/cth0TD4/dlggQrs.jpg