Doomsday (DOS) vs Doomsday (Rebirth)

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Stoic
While reading a few of the Action Comics (Rebirth) recently, I saw Superman once again struggling with that particular Earth's version of Doomsday. Superman seemed to have the same amount of trouble as he did when he fought DOS Doomsday. It really didn't make much sense to me, because it was widely believed that Superman had grown more powerful than he was back when he originally fought, and was put into a deep coma by DOS Doomsday.

Could it have been that the Doomsday of Rebirth was/is far superior to DOS Doomsday? Was everyone wrong in their beliefs that Superman had indeed grown more powerful?

Which Doomsday would win, if they were both transported to a neutral zone and set against each other.

KO or 1st kill = Win

Who wins?

Galan007
Originally posted by Stoic
While reading a few of the Action Comics (Rebirth) recently, I saw Superman once again struggling with that particular Earth's version of Doomsday. Superman seemed to have the same amount of trouble as he did when he fought DOS Doomsday. It really didn't make much sense to me, because it was widely believed that Superman had grown more powerful than he was back when he originally fought, and was put into a deep coma by DOS Doomsday.

Could it have been that the Doomsday of Rebirth was/is far superior to DOS Doomsday? Was everyone wrong in their beliefs that Superman had indeed grown more powerful? Or maybe ...just maybe... people have been drastically underestimating DoS Doomsday all these years..? mmm




...mhmm

JBL
People were wrong about superman growing more powerful. The DDs stalemate.

Juntai
Originally posted by Galan007
Or maybe ...just maybe... people have been drastically underestimating DoS Doomsday all these years..? mmm




...mhmm thumb up

Both.

Doomsday is stronger than they want to admit, and though his regular operating level was lower prior to DOS, because he hadn't needed to dig and hit that level before-- superman was more powerful than they want to admit.


AND he has grown more powerful.

abhilegend
Originally posted by JBL
People were wrong about superman growing more powerful. The DDs stalemate.
laughing out loud

leonidas
Originally posted by Galan007
Or maybe ...just maybe... people have been drastically underestimating DoS Doomsday all these years..? mmm




...mhmm

this. and stalemate or double ko like what happened with dd and superman.

Delta1938
Originally posted by JBL
People were wrong about superman growing more powerful. The DDs stalemate.

You believe you've definitively proven that Superman wasn't weakened when split. Explain then why he stated, both directly and implied, that he was weaker than before, multiple times, in SUPERMAN: LOIS & CLARK, which definitely is before merging back.

"Digging a 13 mile wide trench in the ocean floor.....is NOT as easy as it used to be."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK1-PG11.jpg

"May not be what I was...."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK1-PG19.jpg

"Not sure why, but my powers aren't what they were." "Whatever the case, it's taken a toll.....leaving me weaker than I care to admit."

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK4-PG13.jpg

"She can cut me?! Because I've gotten weaker?"

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Alternates/LoisAndClark/th_SUPERMAN_LOISandCLARK8-PG10.jpg

So, what mental gymnastics are you going to do now?

Diesldude
Originally posted by Juntai
thumb up

Both.

Doomsday is stronger than they want to admit, and though his regular operating level was lower prior to DOS, because he hadn't needed to dig and hit that level before-- superman was more powerful than they want to admit.


AND he has grown more powerful.

Shows superman always had dynamic strength.

That superman when needed was able to reach into himself and kill a being that can go toe to toe with a current upgraded superman. If this isn't proof, then I don't know what is.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
Or maybe ...just maybe... people have been drastically underestimating DoS Doomsday all these years..? mmm




...mhmm thumb up

DoS DD was taken down by a Superman mental/power state that nobody has experienced before or ever since, baring the Imperiex Probes . Before that, he was tanking everything like he was fighting children . Unless people would like to argue Byrne Superman isn't high-herald , DoS DD was trans in terms of 'forum stature'.

I don't know how anybody can argue he was not impressive.

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
Or maybe ...just maybe... people have been drastically underestimating DoS Doomsday all these years..? mmm




...mhmm

If he was stronger than what we thought and Superman indeed has grown more powerful (and this recent version of Doomsday was stomping him, Diana and Lex at the same time), he wouldn't have died from a far weaker Superman (if that was the case).

Crazy thing about this is, Superman admitted during his recent fight against Doomsday that he wasn't pulling his punches, and he was still losing, so you can't even use the argument Superman was holding back. There is a lot of contradictory going on here by fans but let's see what Galan have to say.

carver9
Originally posted by Diesldude
Shows superman always had dynamic strength.

That superman when needed was able to reach into himself and kill a being that can go toe to toe with a current upgraded superman. If this isn't proof, then I don't know what is.

Doesn't make sense.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
Doesn't make sense.

Its called PIS.

Batman has stalemated a bloodlusted WW in battle. She wasn't holding back. Doesn't make sense.

Diesldude
Originally posted by carver9
Doesn't make sense.

Would love to hear your explanation why it doesn't make sense.

Diesldude
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Its called PIS.

Batman has stalemated a bloodlusted WW in battle. She wasn't holding back. Doesn't make sense.

Or dynamic Strength.
DOS Superman was physically able to kill a being that can go toe to toe with the current upgraded superman.

Galan007
^ Well we do know for a fact that DoS Doomsday possessed dynamic strength:
http://i.imgur.com/mb7Dd6V.jpg

"As we traded blows, got stronger..."

Diesldude
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Well we do know for a fact that DoS Doomsday possessed dynamic strength:
http://i.imgur.com/mb7Dd6V.jpg

"As we traded blows, got stronger..."

thumb up

carver9
And a weaker Superman killed him whereas a supposedly more powerful Superman struggled against the same Doomsday, and was losing, while going all out. Do you not see anything wrong with this?

Delta1938
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Well we do know for a fact that DoS Doomsday possessed dynamic strength:
http://i.imgur.com/mb7Dd6V.jpg

"As we traded blows, got stronger..."

Superman's statement implied Doomsday was getting stronger in DOS, and Doomsday's YEAR ONE thing showed he did have dynamic strength. REBIRTH simply made it clear Doomsday was getting stronger as the fight went on.

But, as you can see here and many other threads, the Superman detractors, well.....

Stoic
Thanks for the input guys, I was confused by this because it seemed to contradict what was earlier written concerning Doomsday's strength level in direct comparison to Superman's strength level. What still has me confused is whether or not Superman of Rebirth is presently weaker than he was just prior to the DC reboot into the Nu52 era? If he is more powerful than he was during DOS, and this Doomsday of Rebirth was able to pretty much dominate him, IMO I would think that Rebirth Doomsday could possibly one shot him. After all, DOS Doomsday was not impossible to take down if he was hit by enough power, as we saw during the end of DOS. Maybe I'm just not getting it. I apologize for this in advance. Maybe it's exactly what Dark Saint said. PIS?

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman's statement implied Doomsday was getting stronger in DOS, and Doomsday's YEAR ONE thing showed he did have dynamic strength. REBIRTH simply made it clear Doomsday was getting stronger as the fight went on.

But, as you can see here and many other threads, the Superman detractors, well.....

There isn't any detractors.

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
Superman's statement implied Doomsday was getting stronger in DOS, and Doomsday's YEAR ONE thing showed he did have dynamic strength. REBIRTH simply made it clear Doomsday was getting stronger as the fight went on.

But, as you can see here and many other threads, the Superman detractors, well.....

Getting away from the detractors for a moment. If Superman was/is more powerful now than he was during DOS, and Rebirth's Doomsday was at the same level as DOS Doomsday, Superman going all out should have taken Rebirth's Doomsday down regardless of Doomsday's ability to evolve. He shouldn't have had been able to evolve fast enough, if Superman went at him with everything he had, which seemed to be the case in the more recent Action Comics. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
There isn't any detractors.

"There AREN'T any detractors." And that is blatantly false. You're one of them.

I thought you had me on Ignore? Since you're replying to me, how about you take a look at what I said to JBL in regards to "Superman wasn't weakened when he was split?" You hold basically the same view as him. Since you both so desperately need it to be true.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
"There AREN'T any detractors." And that is blatantly false. You're one of them.

I thought you had me on Ignore? Since you're replying to me, how about you take a look at what I said to JBL in regards to "Superman wasn't weakened when he was split?" You hold basically the same view as him. Since you both so desperately need it to be true.

What did you post in regards to Superman being weakened?

Delta1938
Originally posted by Stoic
Getting away from the detractors for a moment. If Superman was/is more powerful now than he was during DOS, and Rebirth's Doomsday was at the same level as DOS Doomsday, Superman going all out should have taken Rebirth's Doomsday down regardless of Doomsday's ability to evolve. He shouldn't have had been able to evolve fast enough, if Superman went at him with everything he had, which seemed to be the case in the more recent Action Comics. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Missed this. Take a look at my post to JBL, those scans all take place before the REBIRTH Doomsday fight, but before Superman was whole again. Could be the explanation.

Originally posted by carver9
What did you post in regards to Superman being weakened?

Read the post, dunderhead.

Juntai
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Well we do know for a fact that DoS Doomsday possessed dynamic strength:
http://i.imgur.com/mb7Dd6V.jpg

"As we traded blows, got stronger..." There's also another one that said that his rage was fueling his strength too. As he got mad he got stronger.

Juntai
Originally posted by carver9
What did you post in regards to Superman being weakened? He posted from the Lois and Clark series where Superman mentioned he was weakened several times.

He got put back together in Superman Reborn, merged with New52 Superman.

He and New52 Superman were half the power of one whole.

So that whole benchpressing a planet for 5 days?

Didn't even stress Superman at half strength.

Stoic
Originally posted by Delta1938
Missed this. Take a look at my post to JBL, those scans all take place before the REBIRTH Doomsday fight, but before Superman was whole again. Could be the explanation.



Read the post, dunderhead.

Oh okay. Thanks.

Originally posted by Juntai
He posted from the Lois and Clark series where Superman mentioned he was weakened several times.

He got put back together in Superman Reborn, merged with New52 Superman.

He and New52 Superman were half the power of one whole.

So that whole benchpressing a planet for 5 days?

Didn't even stress Superman at half strength.

Nice. But for a while there, people were under the impression that Nu52 Superman was vastly more powerful than his Pre Flashpoint twin. You may remember this? It was in part due to Pre Flashpoint Superman needing J'onn and Diana's help in towing the Earth. I realize on the other hand that comic books tend to have a few contradictions from time to time. I realize that Superman holds back a lot, but in his latest run in with Doomsday, he wasn't holding back at all. Doomsday threatened his family, and he wasn't playing around.

I can easily believe that Superman, as well as several other characters (Thor, Doomsday, etc) have dynamic strength, after all why should the Hulk be the only one to have this power? There are after all many characters that have healing factors. Going back on topic, my first impression was that Rebirth's Superman, should have run the bag off of Rebirth's Doomsday, and the only reason that he didn't was because the Doomsday of Rebirth was vastly more powerful than DOS Doomsday for obvious reasons.

carver9
Originally posted by Delta1938
Missed this. Take a look at my post to JBL, those scans all take place before the REBIRTH Doomsday fight, but before Superman was whole again. Could be the explanation.



Read the post, dunderhead.

Which post?

Delta1938
Originally posted by carver9
Which post?

Not sure if playing stupid, or not playing. vin

Look at the first page. It's pretty obvious when I posted it in response to JBL.

carver9
Originally posted by Juntai
He posted from the Lois and Clark series where Superman mentioned he was weakened several times.

He got put back together in Superman Reborn, merged with New52 Superman.

He and New52 Superman were half the power of one whole.

So that whole benchpressing a planet for 5 days?

Didn't even stress Superman at half strength.

I know you feel as if this is the way it should work but comics doesn't work like that. Example...Nul was ALL of Hulk power. He was Hulk essence. Came straight from him.

https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2011/11/d3.jpg

Even with Nul being a part of Hulk, his total power, during this time, Hulk was still shaking the planet with his punches. And let's get one thing out of the way; Nul wasn't a weakling either. It was said that nothing could stop him...NOTHING.

Anyways, it was said on multiple of occasions that Nul had the power to break the World (I'm guessing using your argument, he was at half power)...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/3624584-the_defenders_01_003.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/3624632-defenders_003_013.jpg

Don't think anyone in their right mind would say Nul or Hulk was weakened...let alone at half power. It's retarded. Then this goes against the idea of Suoseman having dynamic strength/power. This is an example of having dynamic strength...

Absorb Hulk power...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149056/3489237-red+hulk+nukes+2.jpg

Hulk bounce back up more powerful.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149056/3489238-hulk+walks+out+of+rulk%27s+nuke.jpg

It should be next to impossible to permanently depower someone with dynamic power/strength. Anyways, nothing was said of Superman being at half of his power just like nothing was said of Hulk losing ALL of his power when Nul appeared.

-Pr-
Please, get back on topic everyone.

carver9
Also want to point out that the device Nul broke was the heart of an entire universe.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Please, get back on topic everyone.

Ok.

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
I know you feel as if this is the way it should work but comics doesn't work like that. Example...Nul was ALL of Hulk power. He was Hulk essence. Came straight from him.

https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2011/11/d3.jpg

Even with Nul being a part of Hulk, his total power, during this time, Hulk was still shaking the planet with his punches. And let's get one thing out of the way; Nul wasn't a weakling either. It was said that nothing could stop him...NOTHING.

Anyways, it was said on multiple of occasions that Nul had the power to break the World (I'm guessing using your argument, he was at half power)...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/3624584-the_defenders_01_003.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/35308/3624632-defenders_003_013.jpg

Don't think anyone in their right mind would say Nul or Hulk was weakened...let alone at half power. It's retarded. Then this goes against the idea of Suoseman having dynamic strength/power. This is an example of having dynamic strength...

Absorb Hulk power...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149056/3489237-red+hulk+nukes+2.jpg

Hulk bounce back up more powerful.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149056/3489238-hulk+walks+out+of+rulk%27s+nuke.jpg

It should be next to impossible to permanently depower someone with dynamic power/strength. Anyways, nothing was said of Superman being at half of his power just like nothing was said of Hulk losing ALL of his power when Nul appeared.
laughing out loud

Because Nul was a mystical entity possessing Hulk.

Never change Carter.

carver9
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

Because Nul was a mystical entity possessing Hulk.

Never change Carter.


https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2011/11/d3.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by carver9
https://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads//2011/11/d3.jpg
Yes, being hulk's hulk doesn't means he had a portion of hulk's power.

Just like Hulk doesn't has a portion of Bruce Banner's power even though he is Banner's Hulk.

Stop already.

Juntai
The problem is Carver, that Superman was actually written to be weaker while split. He made note of it many times in the lead up to Rebirth.

And the comic says he was split in two explicitly to make him weaker.

It was Superman's power, split into two beings.


Your trash Nul example doesn't have that going for it.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Stoic
Getting away from the detractors for a moment. If Superman was/is more powerful now than he was during DOS, and Rebirth's Doomsday was at the same level as DOS Doomsday, Superman going all out should have taken Rebirth's Doomsday down regardless of Doomsday's ability to evolve. He shouldn't have had been able to evolve fast enough, if Superman went at him with everything he had, which seemed to be the case in the more recent Action Comics. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Hey, it is also possible that DOS superman because of his dynamic strength exceeded rebirth superman at his current levels. Push comes to Shove, rebirth superman could have done the same thing and easily put away doomsday as he is more powerful now than before. But it didn't come to that. Also possible like Delta was saying that superman hadn't merged yet and was at half power. But what is half of infinity?

Juntai
Originally posted by Diesldude
Hey, it is also possible that DOS superman because of his dynamic strength exceeded rebirth superman at his current levels. Push comes to Shove, rebirth superman could have done the same thing and easily put away doomsday as he is more powerful now than before. But it didn't come to that. Also possible like Delta was saying that superman hadn't merged yet and was at half power. But what is half of infinity? Well, push come to shove Superman will do the blatantly impossible when he must.

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