HUlk vs Wolverine/Sabertooth/Spiderman
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Faceless808
Hulk versus these three. This is adamantium weapon X Creed
No BFR
Props to Carver9
carver9
Bad matchup for the trio. It's the healing factor that makes this difficult for the 3.
Parmaniac
This reply is for Carver
Wolverine and Spider-Man both have defeated Hulk alone already.
carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
This reply is for Carver
Wolverine and Spider-Man both have defeated Hulk alone already.
True. Classic Hulk. Current Hulk is a different beast.
StiltmanFTW
Who hacked your account?
The carver I know always used to say "Hulk is Hulk".
carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Who hacked your account?
The carver I know always used to say "Hulk is Hulk".
Hulk is Hulk but Hulk has become more powerful over the yrs.
Faceless808
This is regular Banner/Hulk. No WWH, WBH, Green Scar, etc.
Faceless808
I still think Hulk would/should win over these metas. C'mon, Carver, I know you can prove me right.
Faceless808
Originally posted by abhilegend
Where is Ize?
IKR? I was hoping he'd chime in on this, too.
DarkSaint85
Originally posted by carver9
True. Classic Hulk. Current Hulk is a different beast.
Cho is a loser, though.
Ize19
Sorry guys, I was at work. Now that I'm here, this is an interesting thread. On the one hand, I do believe that this team has what it takes to take Hulk to a forum KO, probably more often than he knocks out all three of them. On the other hand, in a deathmatch, Hulk's pretty much unstoppable, and I see the team dying before I see them killing Hulk.
One question, and it applies to the Orion thread too. In a team fight like this, if one of the team members is knocked out, are they removed from the fight, or can they come back so long as their teammates hold out long enough?
Delta1938
Since carter is both a Wolverine and Hulk fanboy, this constant inflating and killing his erection will do permanent damage.
Faceless808
Originally posted by Ize19
One question, and it applies to the Orion thread too. In a team fight like this, if one of the team members is knocked out, are they removed from the fight, or can they come back so long as their teammates hold out long enough?
Good question. For this thread, KO = elimination
Ize19
Originally posted by Faceless808
Good question. For this thread, KO = elimination
Hmmm, that makes it significantly easier for Hulk then. I'll give it to the team 5.5-6/10, but it's close. It's that friggin regenerating so fast they might as well not have attacked him sometimes!
Stoic
This team wouldn't beat the Hulk or Orion. Who are we kidding? Either would one shot these guys. Mountain movers and beyond vs guys that have trouble at best lifting train cars. C'mon.
emu
Seems like a lifetime ago Wolverine was written as a match for Hulk.
New Hulk is garbage, but he dominates this. Spiderman is likely a hindrance, taking up space throwing punches that wouldn't hurt Cage.
StiltmanFTW
Webs to the eyes + claws through the brain combo should work great in this scenario.
carver9
Originally posted by Faceless808
I still think Hulk would/should win over these metas. C'mon, Carver, I know you can prove me right.
I think you're right with this one. The last time Wolverine and Hulk fought, Wolvy was unable to pierce him (and he had Thing backing him) and the Hulk he was fighting was getting injected by some type of poison that was hindering his power, making him weaker by the second. He beat both Thing and Wolverine under these conditions while again, getting weaker by the second. In the past I would've given it to the team but now, naah.
Ize19
Originally posted by Stoic
This team wouldn't beat the Hulk or Orion. Who are we kidding? Either would one shot these guys. Mountain movers and beyond vs guys that have trouble at best lifting train cars. C'mon.
Strength's important, but it's not all there is. Not only has Wolverine been a great match for Hulk many times, he's partnered with Creed, who's Wolverine+ in everything but skill, and Spider-man, who doesn't add much offense, but is the perfect support role on both offense and defense for these two. The longer this fight goes, the more it tilts in Hulk's favor, but this team should be able to get a ko shot before things go too far.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by carver9
I think you're right with this one. The last time Wolverine and Hulk fought, Wolvy was unable to pierce him (and he had Thing backing him) and the Hulk he was fighting was getting injected by some type of poison that was hindering his power, making him weaker by the second. He beat both Thing and Wolverine under these conditions while again, getting weaker by the second. In the past I would've given it to the team but now, naah.
Why do you lie?
Logan pierced his skin just fine, drawing blood, even with his first attempt to do so. Arguably stabbed him in one panel near the end of the fight, too.
carver9
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Why do you lie?
Logan pierced his skin just fine, drawing blood, even with his first attempt to do so. Arguably stabbed him in one panel near the end of the fight, too.
Looked back at the scans again and he did cut him, just wasn't severe or damaging enough to call it anything. This fight helps Hulk case since he was tremendously weakened, to the point that he was grabbing his head.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsWolverine58v312.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsWolverine59.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsWolverine60.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsWolverine61.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsWolverine62.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsWolverine63.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsWolverine64.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20T-Z/HulkvsWolverine65.jpg
Ize19
Originally posted by carver9
Looked back at the scans again and he did cut him, just wasn't severe or damaging enough to call it anything. This fight helps Hulk case since he was tremendously weakened, to the point that he was grabbing his head.
Sometimes Wolverine only inflicts superficial damage, sometimes he stabs him in the brain like it's nothing. Here's one tactic that I think would guarantee he does some significant damage:
http://i.imgur.com/P1wtiELl.jpg
Of course, instead of a hole in the chest, he'd put his hand to the back of Hulk's head. Hulk won't like that, I think.
Faceless808
^^^Wouldn't Hulk just recover from that? It might just end up pissing him off more. IDK.
StiltmanFTW
^ He would get knocked out and that's all that matters here.
https://i.imgur.com/n2TEVqr.png
https://i.imgur.com/VBt0qFV.png
Faceless808
^^ Really? Going by what some people say, he's healing is practically instantaneous.
DarkSaint85
And going by on-panel evidence...
I mean, WWH, a far tougher Hulk than seen here, had to take his time to KO Wolverine.
AND he was deliberately trying to KO him.
Sabes is even better. And according to what others have said:
Originally posted by carver9
Sneak attack. Midnighter has been tagged by everyone and their grandma but you want to question the Spidersense? Boy stop.
DarkSaint85
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Thunderclap.
Gray Hulk tried that. Turned Wolverine feral instead.
And Sabes is meant to be tougher still.
Whilst THAT is happening, Spiderman is dancing around. The thunderclap is great - in one direction.
Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Gray Hulk tried that. Turned Wolverine feral instead.
And Sabes is meant to be tougher still.
Whilst THAT is happening, Spiderman is dancing around. The thunderclap is great - in one direction.
Keeping in mind that when guys like Wolverine, Sabretooth, and Spiderman defeat guys like Thor, Orion, and the Hulk, it's a great showing for them, and a poor showing for the guys far above their weight class.
It's easy to convincingly argue PIS by showing on panel proof, but in a forum setting, PIS becomes more or less irrelevant due to the idea that they all fight within character to the best of their ability. Hulk, Thor, Orion, and Superman, are all able to KO these three without going all out. This is a fact that no one can sidestep.
You wouldn't even have to go the low-ball route to prove this fact either. The Hulk's highs in comparison to these three are light years apart.
Ize19
Originally posted by Stoic
Keeping in mind that when guys like Wolverine, Sabretooth, and Spiderman defeat guys like Thor, Orion, and the Hulk, it's a great showing for them, and a poor showing for the guys far above their weight class.
It's easy to convincingly argue PIS by showing on panel proof, but in a forum setting, PIS becomes more or less irrelevant due to the idea that they all fight within character to the best of their ability. Hulk, Thor, Orion, and Superman, are all able to KO these three without going all out. This is a fact that no one can sidestep.
You wouldn't even have to go the low-ball route to prove this fact either. The Hulk's highs in comparison to these three are light years apart.
You do realize how circular that reasoning is, right? Any time these guys fail to knockout someone weaker than them, it's a low showing? Even when they're in the middle of a tear of high showings, and the whole point of the arc is how unstoppable they are, ala WWH?
Right, no PIS. And that suddenly means that when characters have dozens of high showings, none of them can be used, because then your precious heralds might get cut down to size?
I could argue that any time Wolverine's failed to dish out fatal damage to guys like Hulk and Thor, it's PIS, because of the durability of things he's cut through, and his skill and willingness to go for vital areas, but it'd just be self serving nonsense. They get their durability showings, just like he gets his showings of his claws effectiveness. The same goes here, Hulk, Thor, and Orion get their strength showings, but Wolverine and Sabertooth get their durability showings, you can't pick and choose.
A true high herald, with all the versatility and power that implies, will beat this team. High herald strength and durability isn't enough to do it on its own, they've proven they're too good for that.
DarkSaint85
The other problem is that Wolverine was designed to be a weapon AGAINST superheroes, from the start.
Sabes, his better.
Ize19
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The other problem is that Wolverine was designed to be a weapon AGAINST superheroes, from the start.
Sabes, his better.
Absolutely. A man with Wolverine's speed, skill, and senses, possessing a skeleton and healing factor capable of handling any punch, and foot long weapons capable of piercing any hide, is made for taking on bricks, even ones as strong as Hulk.
As you said, with the exception of skill, which he comes close in, and the length of his weapons, which are just as sharp, Sabertooth has more of all of that. Add in Spider-man who is faster than either, has limited pre-cog, and the ultimate support tool with his webbing, and even someone as difficult to take down as the Hulk is totally within this team's abilities to defeat.
celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Gray Hulk tried that. Turned Wolverine feral instead.
And Sabes is meant to be tougher still.
Whilst THAT is happening, Spiderman is dancing around. The thunderclap is great - in one direction.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Strength/SavageHulkThunderclap17Sentryv23.jpg
DarkSaint85
What does that show?
Does it show the thunderclap firing behind him as well?
celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What does that show?
Does it show the thunderclap firing behind him as well?
He one-shot a wide swath of a Negative Zone army that included Blastaar.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4JEcIE2U69Q/VQ7sKuOpVaI/AAAAAAAI8hw/no9ccrMa8gw/s1600/p8_14%2Bcopy.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DHvA6LZjwYE/VQ7sLC9fbxI/AAAAAAAI8h8/ESlwvjIyn08/s1600/p8_15%2Bcopy.jpg
mighty adam
Wwh did have to try to k.o wolverine and yes said on panel wolverine gives him trouble and he can not kill him but he beat his brains up. Sabe with the skeleton too plus spiderman. I think savage hulk still takes it but cho hulk gets beat
Delta1938
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He one-shot a wide swath of a Negative Zone army that included Blastaar.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4JEcIE2U69Q/VQ7sKuOpVaI/AAAAAAAI8hw/no9ccrMa8gw/s1600/p8_14%2Bcopy.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DHvA6LZjwYE/VQ7sLC9fbxI/AAAAAAAI8h8/ESlwvjIyn08/s1600/p8_15%2Bcopy.jpg
At worst for Hulk that'd keep them off balance. I'd imagine would be problematic for Wolverine and Sabertooth with their hearing.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Ize19
One question, and it applies to the Orion thread too. In a team fight like this, if one of the team members is knocked out, are they removed from the fight, or can they come back so long as their teammates hold out long enough?
Always wondered about it.
It's really something that should've been included in the rules section.
Parmaniac
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
^ He would get knocked out and that's all that matters here.
https://i.imgur.com/n2TEVqr.png
https://i.imgur.com/VBt0qFV.png That was moderate Hulk, now because of Wolverine's foreign police we have radical Hulk and Hulkism spreading. #NotAllHulks
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Parmaniac
That was moderate Hulk, now because of Wolverine's foreign police we have radical Hulk and Hulkism spreading. #NotAllHulks
Ize19
Originally posted by Delta1938
At worst for Hulk that'd keep them off balance. I'd imagine would be problematic for Wolverine and Sabertooth with their hearing.
It'd hurt, but Wolverine's powered through Hulk's thunderclaps before. And later, being right next to him as he dished an extremely powerful one into the pit they were standing in did nothing to him:
http://i.imgur.com/vB6FHbhl.jpg
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Always wondered about it.
It's really something that should've been included in the rules section.
Yeah, it'd be nice to get an official ruling, so we know in other threads besides this one.
DarkSaint85
I treat it the same way as a BFR.
If, say, Wolverine was thrown a few hundred​ metres away, he can get back into the fight in good time whilst Sabes is fighting.
However, if he's thrown to Georgia....
So if the time he's KOed is equal to the time it counts as a BFR, then he's out of the forum fight.
Ize19
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I treat it the same way as a BFR.
If, say, Wolverine was thrown a few hundred​ metres away, he can get back into the fight in good time whilst Sabes is fighting.
However, if he's thrown to Georgia....
So if the time he's KOed is equal to the time it counts as a BFR, then he's out of the forum fight.
That makes sense. Do you apply that to one on one fights, too, or do you go by moment of unconsciousness. Cause my instinct is for what you're saying here, but I've been told the latter is the forum rule. Funny enough, when I check the Forum rules, I don't see it mentioned either way.
DarkSaint85
I apply it to one on ones too, with the caveat I might vary the time length. Out for a ten count is what I generally have in my head, whereas of course, being thrown over 100m away (the distance Usain Bolt could cover in 10 seconds) is nothing in these fights.
So same principle, but a shorter time frame for KOs, and longer for BFRs.
Ize19
Cool, good to know. Yeah, I remember people bringing up the "forum ko" and thinking, "but if he's out for two seconds, then gets back up and kills them, how is that a loss?" I'd certainly be ok with 10 count for KO, I don' know, 15 min for bfr? Too much?
DarkSaint85
Might be too much...I mean, if you can jam out to the entirety of Stairway to Heaven nearly twice over, that's a fair amount of time lol.
StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Ize19
It'd hurt, but Wolverine's powered through Hulk's thunderclaps before. And later, being right next to him as he dished an extremely powerful one into the pit they were standing in did nothing to him:
http://i.imgur.com/vB6FHbhl.jpg
And let's not forget about Logan's fights against Banshee or Navajo Coyote. Wolverine is not Daredevil, his HF and overall toughness allow him to power through sonic attacks.
Faceless808
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So same principle, but a shorter time frame for KOs, and longer for BFRs.
Wouldn't it be logical for the time to be considered KO be the same time it takes to be considered BFR? Why would/should it be different, whether its 1 v 1 or not?
StiltmanFTW
Because knockouts don't work like getting put to sleep; especially with characters who heal rapidly.
cdtm
Originally posted by Ize19
Cool, good to know. Yeah, I remember people bringing up the "forum ko" and thinking, "but if he's out for two seconds, then gets back up and kills them, how is that a loss?" I'd certainly be ok with 10 count for KO, I don' know, 15 min for bfr? Too much?
Kenichi was knocked out by Shou Kano first. Out "on his feet".
He was also fighting while unconscious, though.
Otoh, Kenichi was declared the winner by the Elder, when he got up before Kano could. Like one of those boxing 10 counts when both guys are down.
However, Kenichi was done, while Kano had enough spring to shield Miu with his body as a gunman pulled the trigger.
So who "really" won? Odds are, Kano probably could have killed Kenichi as easily as protect Miu.
DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Faceless808
Wouldn't it be logical for the time to be considered KO be the same time it takes to be considered BFR? Why would/should it be different, whether its 1 v 1 or not?
10 seconds, for a KO (like in boxing) - that's the time a good sprinter takes to cover 100m.
Featureless environs in a forum fight, means a starting distance of 500m.
Being punched 100m away is nothing to these guys, especially as they'll be charging back, snarling, ready to continue the fight.
But to be KOd for a 10 count?
Ize19
Originally posted by cdtm
Kenichi was knocked out by Shou Kano first. Out "on his feet".
He was also fighting while unconscious, though.
Otoh, Kenichi was declared the winner by the Elder, when he got up before Kano could. Like one of those boxing 10 counts when both guys are down.
However, Kenichi was done, while Kano had enough spring to shield Miu with his body as a gunman pulled the trigger.
So who "really" won? Odds are, Kano probably could have killed Kenichi as easily as protect Miu.
Absolutely, but a lot of that was plot. You wouldn't give DoD Kenichi the forum win against Kano, would you? It was a fight Kenichi needed to win, and Kano was a character the mangaka needed to be established as above the rest of the disciples, so it was made deliberately obscure. 10 count for ko makes sense, 9/10 times, imo.
Darksaint, is 2-5 minutes more the bfr range you were thinking? I think I went a little long at first because it can be hard to tell how much time passes in comic fights, so I overshot.
DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Ize19
Absolutely, but a lot of that was plot. You wouldn't give DoD Kenichi the forum win against Kano, would you? It was a fight Kenichi needed to win, and Kano was a character the mangaka needed to be established as above the rest of the disciples, so it was made deliberately obscure. 10 count for ko makes sense, 9/10 times, imo.
Darksaint, is 2-5 minutes more the bfr range you were thinking? I think I went a little long at first because it can be hard to tell how much time passes in comic fights, so I overshot.
2-5 sounds good to me - say in a herald level fight, the power outputs thrown about means that if Gladiator threw Surfer, he'd end up faaar away - but at the speeds he travels at, it's hardly an inconvenience.
Raptor22
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
10 seconds, for a KO (like in boxing) - that's the time a good sprinter takes to cover 100m.
Featureless environs in a forum fight, means a starting distance of 500m.
Being punched 100m away is nothing to these guys, especially as they'll be charging back, snarling, ready to continue the fight.
But to be KOd for a 10 count? but how would something like a ten count work in a forum match? In boxing when someone goes down the ref stops the other fighter.
In a forum match if u KO u'r opponent for 2 sec but need a ten count to win why wouldn't the fighter standing just keep pounding the crap out of the unconscious fighter so they don't wake back up?
Or are we supposed to picture the guy landing the blow to just take a step back after koing their opponent and see if they get up in a reasonable time?
Also in a forum fight how would u determine what would be a blow that would result in a 4 sec KO as opposed to a ten?
DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Raptor22
but how would something like a ten count work in a forum match? In boxing when someone goes down the ref stops the other fighter.
In a forum match if u KO u'r opponent for 2 sec but need a ten count to win why wouldn't the fighter standing just keep pounding the crap out of the unconscious fighter so they don't wake back up?
Or are we supposed to picture the guy landing the blow to just take a step back after koing their opponent and see if they get up in a reasonable time?
Also in a forum fight how would u determine what would be a blow that would result in a 4 sec KO as opposed to a ten?
It's more if the damage output from the puncher is so severe, it would take the punchee 10 secs or so to recover from it.
It would be based on their history of recovering from similar punches.
Batman punching Guy Gardner, for example. That level of punch may (MAY) KO Deadpool - for like a millisecond. Because we have seen what DP has recovered from.
So h2h, only boxing rules? Bats ain't KOing DP. Hulk, however, is (I'm using an extreme here to make my point).
Faceless808
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
10 seconds, for a KO (like in boxing) - that's the time a good sprinter takes to cover 100m.
Featureless environs in a forum fight, means a starting distance of 500m.
Being punched 100m away is nothing to these guys, especially as they'll be charging back, snarling, ready to continue the fight.
But to be KOd for a 10 count?
Gotcha. But it makes me laugh. The power it takes to hit a 200lb man 100m is way more than it would take to knock out the same 200lb man. So how would this work with someone with a rapid healing factor, like Stilt said?
Faceless808
BTW, DS, loving the Orion sig there!
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