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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z0S0Z8lUTg

Brilliant and thought-provoking. While, it is almost two hours long, I'd recommend everyone even remotely interested in philosophy and/or Star Wars to watch it from beginning to end. It doesn't just give you a better understanding and appreciation for Kreia and KotOR 2, but Star Wars as a whole, movies included.

Kreia was a retard who would have killed all life in galaxy. Her philosophy is shit. More than that, it's just Chris Avellone using yet another character to shoehorn his morality into every setting he touches.

discount vergere

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kreia was a retard who would have killed all life in galaxy. Her philosophy is shit. More than that, it's just Chris Avellone using yet another character to shoehorn his morality into every setting he touches.
Yeah also wtf was that shit about trying to destroy the Force? So she views the Force as something that controls everyone's fate that will do anything to maintain it's balance... yet she thinks she can destroy the very thing that is apparently guiding the fact of the entire universe?

It would be like some devil worshipper believing that God exists and is omnipotent and responsible for creating the entire universe... then thinking they can some how kill this omnipotent God with voodoo magic shit.

Killing the judeo-christian god would make a whole lot more sense (at least for humanity) than killing the Force, tbh.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah also wtf was that shit about trying to destroy the Force? So she views the Force as something that controls everyone's fate that will do anything to maintain it's balance... yet she thinks she can destroy the very thing that is apparently guiding the fact of the entire universe?

It would be like some devil worshipper believing that God exists and is omnipotent and responsible for creating the entire universe... then thinking they can some how kill this omnipotent God with voodoo magic shit.

Except she felt The Exile was perfect proof that life did not require the force. She also had the exact means to expand The Exile's situation to the rest of the galaxy, so no, your metaphor makes no sense.

Argue it's stupid from an out of universe perspective all you want, but given the various plot points of the game her viewpoint is not unfounded.

Originally posted by Selenial
Except she felt The Exile was perfect proof that life did not require the force. She also had the exact means to expand The Exile's situation to the rest of the galaxy, so no, your metaphor makes no sense.

Argue it's stupid from an out of universe perspective all you want, but given the various plot points of the game her viewpoint is not unfounded.

The Exile still had The Force though?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
The Exile still had The Force though?
She drew it off her companions.

Originally posted by Selenial
Except she felt The Exile was perfect proof that life did not require the force. She also had the exact means to expand The Exile's situation to the rest of the galaxy, so no, your metaphor makes no sense.
Except she believes the Force can contrive entire conflicts and wars and the deaths of billions of beings apathetically to maintain its dominion.

Even if the premise is accepted that the Force being destroyed wouldn't harm the Galaxy and accepted the even more unlikely prospect that there is a mechanism by which one could destroy the Force, if we accept both of those premises, then it's still ridiculous for Traya to believe that against the Force which can steer fate towards the deaths of trillions of beings to maintain its balance (much less its existence), she somehow has even the slimmest chance of enacting her plan without the Force contriving fate and destiny to completely **** her over before she succeeded in pulling it off.

Even if we accept the weird premises KOTOR II sets up, it doesn't set up enough weird premise for the plan to try and destroy the most powerful thing in the SW universe which guides the course of fate itself to actually be a logically coherent plan even from an in-universe context.

Originally posted by slayne
She drew it off her companions.

Before that though? Plus as I recall The Force was in everything and everyone, she cut herself off from The Force but that doesn't mean it still wasn't in her like everyone else, she just couldn't use it until later.

She just severed herself from the Force. Otherwise, she'd be dead, just like all the people Kreia and Nihilus went around killing. The only thing odd about the Exile was that she was also a Force Wound.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Before that though? Plus as I recall The Force was in everything and everyone, she cut herself off from The Force but that doesn't mean it still wasn't in her like everyone else, she just couldn't use it until later.
In the time period after Malachor 5 up to K2 she existed completely independent of it. Kreia even says that's why she was drawn to her. And no, the masters and Kreia both confirm that she feeds of others in order to use the Force. She's like Nihilus, but the relationship is symbiotic and not destructive (assuming she's lightside.)

watch this for a better explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtByaOxiwE

Originally posted by slayne
In the time period after Malachor 5 up to K2 she existed completely independent of it. Kreia even says that's why she was drawn to her. And no, the masters and Kreia both confirm that she feeds of others in order to use the Force. She's like Nihilus, but the relationship is symbiotic and not destructive (assuming she's lightside.)

watch this for a better explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EtByaOxiwE

Ok but Independent meaning what exactly? In that she couldn't use The Force? Well yeah, but how does that make her any different from an average joe who can't use it or feel it? Yeah she was a Force Wound, ok, got that.

But from what I'm reading, it's sounding like the Exile was living without The Force differently than some average guy, when I'm not really seeing what's so different.

Once again, life and the Force are the same thing.

Did anyone here actually watch the video or is everyone just bitching about some plot hole now?

I watched a bit, solid stuff tbh

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Once again, life and the Force are the same thing.

"You showed them life, without the force, and instead of showing them truth, power, all you showed them was how the galaxy may die."

In previous canon, yes, it wasn't possible to live without the force. In KOTOR II it evidently was. This dialogue comes from the dark side playthrough, so the second part is discussing that the feeding/quest for power associated with Nihilus is a choice, and she could simply have lived without the force.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Even if we accept the weird premises KOTOR II sets up, it doesn't set up enough weird premise for the plan to try and destroy the most powerful thing in the SW universe which guides the course of fate itself to actually be a logically coherent plan even from an in-universe context.

Not really, everything the Sith do is a perversion of the force. Nihilus and The Exile are both living proof that the force's will is not omnipotent and can be subverted.

Originally posted by Selenial
Not really, everything the Sith do is a perversion of the force. Nihilus and The Exile are both living proof that the force's will is not omnipotent and can be subverted. How do we know that the events that took place in KOTOR 2 were happening against the will of the force?

Kreia didn't want to destroy the Force, just cut everyone off from it. By the end of it though, she was content with the Exile as an example of what could be accomplished without it, and was just using her to clean up her own mess.

In general though, people shouldn't take the killing the Force thing so literally. It's just a metaphor.

Kreia quite literally states she sees in the Exile the death of the Force.