Sam Witwer on Obi-Wan Kenobi

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DarthAnt66
"What's awesome about Obi-Wan, and it's consistent through the Clone Wars, they always say 'he's one of the best, but he's not the best - he's not the best of the best. He's not the best swordsman. He's not the best pilot. But he's really good. But he has these A-game moments.' Well, we just saw an A-game moment (Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul in The Phantom Menace). There's another one, for example, in the Clone Wars, he loses his first fight to Darth Maul pretty hardcore. He does not even hold a candle to Darth Maul when him and Ventress fight Savage and Maul. He loses. But the next time he fights, he's up against Savage and Maul, and his Jedi partner had been killed - Adi Gallia had just been killed - and just like Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan then has his A-game moment and stands up to Darth Maul and Savage and drives them off. I like that the character elements are consistent about what activates these people, about when they are at their best and when they are not."

Rockydonovang
thumb up TCW Kenobi at his best is better than Maul as a duelist.

A menatally and physically wrecked Kenobi not at his best and unabalnced with dun moch is circumstantially inferior to maul as a duelist

Zenwolf
So nothing we didn't already know.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
thumb up TCW Kenobi at his best is better than Maul as a duelist.

A menatally and physically wrecked Kenobi not at his best and unabalnced with dun moch is circumstantially inferior to maul as a duelist
Not really what Sam's getting at, kek.

Regardless, one can just point to Maul's "A-game" moment against Sidious at the end of Lawless.

Kenobi's not replicating that - at least not in TCW.

Didn't really intend this thread to get into Maul v Kenobi though. Just thought the quote was neat.

Rockydonovang
Kenobi's better than maul as a duelist as of tcw as their fights show, so nah, he can replicate getting wrecked by sids just fine

And kenobi's a game moment on florrum has already been confirmed by feloni not to have been externally based
"was kenobi empowered by galia's death"
"nah:

Maul's a game moment? Not so much.

Regardless

The "he's one of the best" is a neat accolade anyway. It's surprising that kenobi, someone who's among the most skille din the mythos is kinda lacking in statements along the lines of, "One of the most skilled swordsman in the order's history" or stuff like that.

Not that voice actor accolades should be given much weight("Ahsoka is the 3d or 4th most skilled jedi in canon"wink

MythLord
Originally posted by Zenwolf
So nothing we didn't already know.

DarthDuelist9
Witwer's basically saying Obi-Wan can be extremely good at specific moments like Jinn or Galli's death but for the rest Maul's 'wrecking' him? Lol nice.

Beniboybling
nice, nucanon for my debates.

Greysentinel365
Filoni thinks differently on some points here

Rockydonovang

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Greysentinel365
Filoni thinks differently on some points here
Nah voice actor opinions>canonical statements/authority here

DarthAnt66
Maul went toe-to-toe with Sidious for like thirty-seconds. erm

Rockydonovang
When enraged, yea.

Beniboybling
After engaging in a lengthy fight beforehand. sad

Rockydonovang
One where sids was toying with him, yea

Darth Thor
Nice to hear Witwer doing some damage control. Fixing some of Filoni's sins.



Originally posted by Rockydonovang


A menatally and physically wrecked Kenobi not at his best and unabalnced with dun moch is circumstantially inferior to maul


That's funny, I was under the impression it was Maul who was mentally and physically wrecked post TPM.

DarthAnt66
Also worth noting Filoni has heavily implied that Maul's pre-Mandalorian legs hindered his combat abilities since his ability to perform acrobatics were limited.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nice to hear Witwer doing some damage control. Fixing some of Filoni's sins.





That's funny, I was under the impression it was Maul who was mentally and physically wrecked post TPM.
1. Witwer doesn't have the authority to damage control here not that he's actually said anything that's contradictory

2. Yea, as a character. That"s not circumstantial. Witwer himself has said that of tcw maul.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also worth noting Filoni has heavily implied that Maul's pre-Mandalorian legs hindered his combat abilities since his ability to perform acrobatics were limited.
Quote?

DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJUWUdw-Yis

Witwer has also stated that Dave told him that Lucas told him that if characters don't use the Force for long periods of time, their connection to the Force will weaken and eventually disappear.

Witwer referenced this as a potential reason why Kenobi is "weak" in ANH. Thus, it seems apparent that early TCW Maul and Rebels Maul isn't their prime also - not that that wasn't obvious anyway.

DarthAnt66
last page

DarthDuelist9
Basically you have a heavily weakened Maul wrecking Obi-Wan on the Turtle Tanker

Darth Thor
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Basically you have a heavily weakened Maul wrecking Obi-Wan on the Turtle Tanker


yes

Unbowed
Maul's potential was second only to the Chosen One's. If things took a different turn on Naboo there's no doubt in my he would have surpassed Sidious.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Unbowed
Maul's potential was second only to the Chosen One's. If things took a different turn on Naboo there's no doubt in my he would have surpassed Sidious. http://i.imgur.com/noO9eFt.gif

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Unbowed
Maul's potential was second only to the Chosen One's. If things took a different turn on Naboo there's no doubt in my he would have surpassed Sidious.
Absolutely not, lmfao. The only thing we know of Maul's potential is that it's greater than Talzin's, which doesn't say much when Talzin's connection to the Force is ambiguous and potentially nonexistent.

DarthDuelist9
IIRC the nightsister do actually use the Force in canon

Darth Thor
Ant do you have a link to Witwer's statement?

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
IIRC the nightsister do actually use the Force in canon
Dave stated that George said they don't use the Force - at least not like how the Jedi and Sith and the Force-users we've seen use it. Their magick is enviroment-linked and "weaker" than true uses of the Force, hence why Mace says "magick is just an illusion" to Talzin. Some sourcebooks might claim otherwise, but I'd take Dave's word on it since he's the one making that canon. The sourcebooks are just interpretating it. Besides, Son of Dathomir made a clear distinction between the dark side and the magick also.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Ant do you have a link to Witwer's statement?
The Kenobi one? Or something else?

Beniboybling
Talzin tried to suck Living Force energy from the Bardottans to make herself stronger in The Disappeared, and described herself as a Force wielder in that same episode. She uses the Force, yeah.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The Kenobi one? Or something else?


Yeah the Kenobi one in the OP.

DarthAnt66
podbay.fm/show/593355728/e/1394751533

At the Maul v Kenobi fight.

Darth Thor
thumb up

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Talzin tried to suck Living Force energy from the Bardottans to make herself stronger in The Disappeared, and described herself as a Force wielder in that same episode. She uses the Force, yeah.
Talzin wielding the Force doesn't mean her magick is of the Force, if that's what your getting at.

Talzin learned how to use the dark side (and thus the Force that we think of) thanks to Sidious.

Beniboybling
No lol, that's conjecture, they just swapped techniques.

But yeah, Mother Talzin's "magicks" is said to derive from the power of Dathomir, a Force nexus - and she gains power in general from the Living Force. She also describes herself as a Force wielder in terms of "dark magicks".

DarthAnt66
"As a Bardottan, you possess a strong connection to the Living Force, a connection that will now be mine. With the combined power of your spirit and my dark magick, I will become more powerful than any Sith or Jedi."

Actually, this suggets Talzin lacked a connection to the living Force. That makes sense, since Dave said the Nightsister magick is very physical in nature.

Perhaps we can conclude that Talzin has an immense command of the Cosmic Force, but lacks a connection to the Living Force.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No lol, that's conjecture, they just swapped techniques.

But yeah, Mother Talzin's "magicks" is said to derive from the power of Dathomir, a Force nexus. It's all Force energy, there is no other existing in the galaxy. She also describes herself as a Force wielder in terms of "dark magicks".
Yeah, no. Filoni and Lucas staunchly disagree. There's more to it than a nexus, lmfao.

DarthDuelist9
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dave stated that George said they don't use the Force - at least not like how the Jedi and Sith and the Force-users we've seen use it. Their magick is enviroment-linked and "weaker" than true uses of the Force, hence why Mace says "magick is just an illusion" to Talzin. Some sourcebooks might claim otherwise, but I'd take Dave's word on it since he's the one making that canon. The sourcebooks are just interpretating it. Besides, Son of Dathomir made a clear distinction between the dark side and the magick also.

Not in the traditional sense yeah but even in Rebel Maul said the Nightsister's were Force wielders and he studied nightsister magick intensly over the years after the Clone Wars.

DarthAnt66
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Magical_ichor

I found this. ^

Beniboybling
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, no. Filoni and Lucas staunchly disagree. There's more to it than a nexus, lmfao. cool story bro.

DarthAnt66
Filoni vs Beniboybling.

Beniboybling
i'd win.

Unbowed
Originally posted by Beniboybling
http://i.imgur.com/noO9eFt.gif
Congrats on the gif selection. That look... vacant, unencumbered by intelligence or wit. It represents you perfectly. wink

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Basically you have a heavily weakened Maul wrecking Obi-Wan on the Turtle Tanker
Yup, getting taken out twice in a minute only to be saved coz Kenobi cares more about saving ventress is def the same as wrecking.

Arguing the fight, as in the part where their sabers actually clashed proves even parity for maul is hilarious. Maul wrecking Kenobi when he was bullrushing doesn't really matter because Kenobi bull rushing was because of exploitation of external circumstances(ambush/torture/Kenobi authoritatively being mentaly off guard)/

The actual saber fight very clearly has maul getting his horn handed to him.
We see Kenobi incap maul twice, and then drive maul back.

Maul admittedly lands three kicks in quick succession on Kenobi, however Kenobi instantly gets up/ Additionally Maul's only significant hit of the fight, aside from failing to incap Kenobi like Kenobi did vs maul was an act f desperation from Kenobi slamming maul's b;ade to the ground leaving him exposed.

Admittedly there was context hindering maul, however all you can use this to claim is that the fight is a wash. Nothing in the actual fight remotely suggests parity much less the superiority you keep baselessly trying to push from this.

And it does show how laughable the notion of maul's physicals netting him any wins when he even a physically wrecked Kenobi can tank so many of his hits. Especialy when you consider maul's utter failure to land any sort of physical strike outside of this circumstantial one.

And yes "maul's raw power" was too much for Kenobi, in the context that Kenobi was mentally unbalanced and physically wrecked, after maul used dun mooch on him. You can't take a statement specific to a certain fight, and ignore the context/circumstances of that fight, it proves nothing.

Florrum makes very clear who's beter though. While there were circumstances hindering how much his brother helpe dmaul, there's nothing individually hindering maul. On the other hand Kneobi had to deal with Maul's brother, and making use of secondary style.

You can argue whatever you want force wise.

But Kenobi being the superior duelist as of tcw is indisputable.

DarthDuelist9
Doubt it.

Sinious
Originally posted by Unbowed
Maul's potential was second only to the Chosen One's. If things took a different turn on Naboo there's no doubt in my he would have surpassed Sidious. laughing out loud

Darth Thor
Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Doubt it.


thumb up

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJUWUdw-Yis

Witwer has also stated that Dave told him that Lucas told him that if characters don't use the Force for long periods of time, their connection to the Force will weaken and eventually disappear.

Witwer referenced this as a potential reason why Kenobi is "weak" in ANH. Thus, it seems apparent that early TCW Maul and Rebels Maul isn't their prime also - not that that wasn't obvious anyway.
1. Alrighty, a hindered maul got taken out twice in a minuite by a single kenobi before circumstatially gaining an edge ala Tpm kenobi vs Tpm maul

2. Nothing says maul didn't use the force, and rebels kenobi is canonically > Ben kenobi and deepened his connection to it.

But keep weighing your fanfics over canon

Ursumeles
Originally posted by Rockydonovang
rebels kenobi is canonically > Ben kenobi
Explain.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Explain.

Because quotes from Filoni and what not apparently.

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Ursumeles
Explain.
I don't want to
Not till the edit button's fixed

Rockydonovang
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Because quotes from Filoni and what not apparently.
The rebels recon quote is also canon, coz rebels recon is canon

Darth Thor
^ He's asks what you mean by Rebels Kenobi > Ben Kenobi.

Given Rebels Kenobi IS Ben Kenobi.

Rockydonovang
That's what urs was asking, not zen

Jaggarath
Originally posted by Jaggarath
"What's awesome about Obi-Wan, and it's consistent through the Clone Wars, they always say 'he's one of the best, but he's not the best - he's not the best of the best. He's not the best swordsman. He's not the best pilot. But he's really good. But he has these A-game moments.' Well, we just saw an A-game moment (Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul in The Phantom Menace). There's another one, for example, in the Clone Wars, he loses his first fight to Darth Maul pretty hardcore. He does not even hold a candle to Darth Maul when him and Ventress fight Savage and Maul. He loses. But the next time he fights, he's up against Savage and Maul, and his Jedi partner had been killed - Adi Gallia had just been killed - and just like Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan then has his A-game moment and stands up to Darth Maul and Savage and drives them off. I like that the character elements are consistent about what activates these people, about when they are at their best and when they are not."

Great quote.

relentless1
Originally posted by Jaggarath

Regardless, one can just point to Maul's "A-game" moment against Sidious at the end of Lawless.
.

lol what A game moment? getting ragdolled and made to beg for mercy???

TheIndyJedi
What was with Rocky and his "Rebels Kenobi>Ben Kenobi"
They are the same character lmao

TheIndyJedi
Originally posted by relentless1
lol what A game moment? getting ragdolled and made to beg for mercy???
Before that he was pushing Sidious back in the duelling portion of the fight. Sidious even grunts.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
lol what A game moment? getting ragdolled and made to beg for mercy???


Hes talking about the lightsaber fight portion. Obviously.

That said, Sidious can basically blitzed anyone whose not named Yoda, Mace Or Anakin.

And amongst even those 3, may be able to ragdoll Anakin.

CuckedCurry

LordOfTheLight
Pretty solid quote. This taken along with him performing the greatest speed feat in the mythos when his force reserves are hugely depleted, Luke's comments on his potential even exceeding Kyp's potential, the megalith feat, and his higher performance against force users should clearly put him as an absolute powerhouse at his best.

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