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standard prime or GA prime, whichever works best iyo. in hell. how this goez....?

If Mordru couldn't faze SBP, I can't see Mephisto doing anything more than annoying him.

you think he can put mephisto down?

Originally posted by leonidas
you think he can put mephisto down?
Put down as in kill? No. Franklin Richards couldn't do it (Mephisto just came back albeit slowly). But I don't think Mephisto could do anything to SBP either.

Mephisto's only hope is the 'trick him into giving me his soul' thing he does. If he pulls that off, he wins.

Originally posted by zopzop
Put down as in kill? No. Franklin Richards couldn't do it (Mephisto just came back albeit slowly). But I don't think Mephisto could do anything to SBP either.

Mephisto's only hope is the 'trick him into giving me his soul' thing he does. If he pulls that off, he wins. Yeah, unless Mephisto goes for some sort of uncharacteristic physical slugfest or blasting fight I don't see SBP being able to do a lot. The soul thing probably is Meph's only hope, but SBP is more likely to get mad and go into some sort of rampage tantrum before going along with that.

I'd take SBP, but I tend to be a lot higher on him than the forum (though apparently about the same as the posters above me). His ridiculously high vs. low showing ratio is about as good as exists in comics, and he had just enough (deliberate) pre-crisis irrationality added to his character's power set to conceivably take on a variety of foe types.

I'll join the ranks that say he wouldn't put down Meph permanently, but I do think he wins.

He steals Mephistos soul

If the only way to win is to trick him into selling his soul Mephisto might have a shot. Depending on how clever Mephisto is. Prime seems kinda dumb. I'm sure he's probably book smart, but due to having the emotional stability of a teenager he seems far too easy to manipulate.

So he just might get phisted here after all.

Originally posted by Digi
I'd take SBP, but I tend to be a lot higher on him than the forum (though apparently about the same as the posters above me). His ridiculously high vs. low showing ratio is about as good as exists in comics, and he had just enough (deliberate) pre-crisis irrationality added to his character's power set to conceivably take on a variety of foe types.

I'll join the ranks that say he wouldn't put down Meph permanently, but I do think he wins.

i can't look at your sig and take anything you say seriously.

and on the note of seriosity--did you look through that canon vs non-canon thread? i only mention it because you got some props for bad a$$ery in there. lol and i know how you love to read people talking good about you.

I know Mephisto can't take someone's soul without a deal. What is the higher power that allows Mephisto to be all powerful through deals (like a genie almost)? Who directly allows these deals to be powered?

The same genie who decrees a random change in your genetic code means that you can control magnets, warp reality,control the weather, or have a beak.

Originally posted by leonidas
i can't look at your sig and take anything you say seriously.

and on the note of seriosity--did you look through that canon vs non-canon thread? i only mention it because you got some props for bad a$$ery in there. lol and i know how you love to read people talking good about you.

Fine. I'll change my signature. Probably just to different silly dogs. But still.



And thanks, I'll have to check it out. I always enjoy soaking up the adoration of internet strangers.

fdog

i don't think anyone gave them 'permission' to deal with souls. there isn't a 'higher power' involved that i know of. preboot mephisto had his (and all demons') origins tied up with the infinity being of gauntlet fame. from there i think i recall him saying something along the lines of all the most powerful demons that split things up and decided to share souls among all the hell lords (splinter realm masters). the whole 'deal thing' is based strictly on myth and legend i think.

anyway, pretty sure mephisto is immune to any physical harm sbp might do to him, and he is capable of battling on the more abstract levels of reality--his battle with warlock (which he lost to the soul gem) was a strange battle of...spirits almost. what defense does prime have against getting pummeled on the astral plane maybe?

Originally posted by Digi
Fine. I'll change my signature. Probably just to different silly dogs. But still.



And thanks, I'll have to check it out. I always enjoy soaking up the adoration of internet strangers.

fdog



that sig makes my day every time i look at it though, so, i'm conflicted. mmm

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think anyone gave them 'permission' to deal with souls. there isn't a 'higher power' involved that i know of. preboot mephisto had his (and all demons') origins tied up with the infinity being of gauntlet fame. from there i think i recall him saying something along the lines of all the most powerful demons that split things up and decided to share souls among all the hell lords (splinter realm masters). the whole 'deal thing' is based strictly on myth and legend i think.

anyway, pretty sure mephisto is immune to any physical harm sbp might do to him, and he is capable of battling on the more abstract levels of reality--his battle with warlock (which he lost to the soul gem) was a strange battle of...spirits almost. what defense does prime have against getting pummeled on the astral plane maybe?
Mephisto is immune to physical harm? Is that why Thor beats the shit out of him in his own realm?

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think anyone gave them 'permission' to deal with souls. there isn't a 'higher power' involved that i know of. preboot mephisto had his (and all demons') origins tied up with the infinity being of gauntlet fame. from there i think i recall him saying something along the lines of all the most powerful demons that split things up and decided to share souls among all the hell lords (splinter realm masters). the whole 'deal thing' is based strictly on myth and legend i think.

anyway, pretty sure mephisto is immune to any physical harm sbp might do to him, and he is capable of battling on the more abstract levels of reality--his battle with warlock (which he lost to the soul gem) was a strange battle of...spirits almost. what defense does prime have against getting pummeled on the astral plane maybe?

Meph's track record is just so spotty against people objectively lower than (or at least similar to) SBP. I don't disagree with you, and it sounds dumb to suggest SBP could just emo-rage through more abstract attacks like this. But he's also one of the few where that might be a legitimate argument.

I don't have a specific rebuttal to your line of thinking here. I just wouldn't lay any chips down on a bet for Mephisto.

mephisto IS hell.... and sure when he decides to take a physical form he can be smacked around, but if his form is beaten, it doesn't matter. his body has been destroyed before:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/OneDumbG0/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyNDgxNzMwOQ==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/OneDumbG0/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyMjc0MzgwNg==/?ref=

he's been stabbed through the heart and cut and beaten to a mess but it doesn't matter because so long as hell is around he's around--at least by most depictions. we know--have seen on panel--that he uses m-bodies to take a form.
it doesn't matter if those are destroyed. he's a consummate shapeshifter anyway. if he goes intangible, or spiritform? what's prime do then?

sbp would literally need to destroy hell and i don't see that happening. if the battle goes astral, i don't think sbp would have an answer. given his teen angst, it might go very badly there for him given mephisto's ability to manipulate people. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
mephisto IS hell.... and sure when he decides to take a physical form he can be smacked around, but if his form is beaten, it doesn't matter. his body has been destroyed before:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/OneDumbG0/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyNDgxNzMwOQ==/?ref=

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/OneDumbG0/media/bWVkaWFJZDoyMjc0MzgwNg==/?ref=

he's been stabbed through the heart and cut and beaten to a mess but it doesn't matter because so long as hell is around he's around--at least by most depictions. we know--have seen on panel--that he uses m-bodies to take a form.
it doesn't matter if those are destroyed. he's a consummate shapeshifter anyway. if he goes intangible, or spiritform? what's prime do then?

sbp would literally need to destroy hell and i don't see that happening. if the battle goes astral, i don't think sbp would have an answer. given his teen angst, it might go very badly there for him given mephisto's ability to manipulate people. /shrug
Or he just beats the shit out of him like Thor has done before.

lol thor has never beaten mephisto down for a win--not physically. meph loses most of the time to thor and ss because of some soul-related shenanigans. show me where thor has physically beaten meph for a win....

Originally posted by leonidas
lol thor has never beaten mephisto down for a win--not physically. meph loses most of the time to thor and ss because of some soul-related shenanigans. show me where thor has physically beaten meph for a win....

I couldn't recall the exact circumstances of the Thor and SS fights, just that they won. But you may be onto something here if he really could no-sell SBP's physical attacks without soul shenanigans.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol thor has never beaten mephisto down for a win--not physically. meph loses most of the time to thor and ss because of some soul-related shenanigans. show me where thor has physically beaten meph for a win....
Well of course. I just drew this on MS paint.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/12780/1442140-thorvshell06.jpg

ermm

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well of course. I just drew this on MS paint.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/12780/1442140-thorvshell06.jpg

ermm
Mephisto is a notorious liar. He's thrown fights just to make the opponent think they'd won while he continues on with his plans. You really think being buried under rocks is going to do anything to him?

He straight up told Surfer he could have killed him any time he wanted but that would put his soul outside Mephisto's power. He's one shotted Surfer OUTSIDE of his hell. Something very few beings have done :
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/Thorshammmer/mephistoholdsback.jpg

i KNEW you'd show that scan.... you do realize that scan is nearly 50 years old, yes? but, ok, cool. i concede. we'll say that sbp wins 1/10 because he can seal mephisto in....solidified lava.

because he has hardly any showings to suggest THAT scene isn't ridiculous.

There was another instance after that where Mephisto admitted that he couldn't even harm thor, in fact thor could have battled Mephisto for all eternity and managed to blackmail him into freeing innocent souls because of that very fact. There was a yet older encounter where Thor defeats Mephisto by enlarging his good soul though this wouldn't work here.

Mephisto has been also stalemated by surfer and in another instance surfer beat him outright. But then again, we were shown several times how Mephisto is literally immune to surfer's powers and other times he intentionally feigns defeat (his ultimate goal is to win surfer's soul after all). So the question is, do we attribute Mephisto's losses (even in those stories where he wasn't explicitly mentioned to feign defeat) as feigning defeat by default or do we consider them legitimate? Personally, i would consider them a legitimate loss unless specifically stated otherwise.

But regardless of his lows, Mephisto's general depiction in hell is that he's all powerful there, quite literally he could do anything he wished. So he'd definitely defeat prime if the fight is in hell. Outside of his realm, Mephisto's power level decreases by quite a margin but even outside hell he has showings like growing to solar system size (and stated to be able to grow universe size) while engaging in a multi-universal battle. Although he rarely displays that kind of power outside hell, so it'd be pretty close between him and prime.

It doesn't change the fact that mephisto does not have the juice to take SMP here.

Prime will spend an eternity destroying Mephisto body.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
It doesn't change the fact that mephisto does not have the juice to take SMP here.

Prime will spend an eternity destroying Mephisto body.

I fail to see how it doesn't prove that Mephisto can take down prime. Did you even read my post? I mean, even outside of his realm, he could grow to universe size and engage in a multi-dimensional battle, and yet he has "not enough juice"?

In his realm, Mephisto's power has been likened to a cosmic cube; he can literally grant himself any wish:

http://imgur.com/SCWwRuB

And i can post multiple examples supporting that claim (for starters: See Leo's Doom/Strange scans).

Prime cannot compete in hell.

Originally posted by operator616
There was another instance after that where Mephisto admitted that he couldn't even harm thor, in fact thor could have battled Mephisto for all eternity and managed to blackmail him into freeing innocent souls because of that very fact. There was a yet older encounter where Thor defeats Mephisto by enlarging his good soul though this wouldn't work here. I was just going to mention that.

The first battle between Thor and Mephisto(see the scans abhi posted) took place in Thor v1 #205. Their second battle --which resulted in an eternal stalemate-- took place in Thor v1 #310. Mephisto later confirmed that he and Thor were equals, and would *always* stalemate one another, in Thor v1 #325:
http://i.imgur.com/2brrFsC.jpg

*Both battles took place within Meph's own realm, btw(stupid as it may be.)

oh, i know he has some lows, but again, by general depiction, i don't see how prime has a chance to put him down. it can be argued that meph would have hell (heh) putting prime down, but with enough time it's hard for me to see meph losing any but a tiny minority tbh. /shrug

not entirely sure how much GA prime would do. meph just has too many options--when at his best.

opr, do you recall any times when meph forcefully took a soul? i recall several 'deals' but don't remember him actively taking a soul i don't think....

Yeah, I don't know how standard Prime would fair, but the dude's resistance to various types of energy attacks is off the charts(tanking pure anti-matter from AM himself, along with universe-busting Quantum energy is f*cking unreal...and that's just the tip of the iceberg.) Tack on the fact that Meph is a magic-based entity, and I could totally see Prime tanking most of his direct attacks.

That said, Meph could likely beat standard Prime via BFR, if nothing else... He wouldn't be able to BFR GA Prime, however, given that he can literally punch into any dimension/universe he wants.

Mephisto dominates

Originally posted by leonidas


i KNEW you'd show that scan.... you do realize that scan is nearly 50 years old, yes? but, ok, cool. i concede. we'll say that sbp wins 1/10 because he can seal mephisto in....solidified lava.

because he has hardly any showings to suggest THAT scene isn't ridiculous. If there is one thing Hell lacks it's magma

Originally posted by zopzop
Mephisto is a notorious liar. He's thrown fights just to make the opponent think they'd won while he continues on with his plans. You really think being buried under rocks is going to do anything to him?

He straight up told Surfer he could have killed him any time he wanted but that would put his soul outside Mephisto's power. He's one shotted Surfer OUTSIDE of his hell. Something very few beings have done :
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/Thorshammmer/mephistoholdsback.jpg
Oh I know quite a few beings who have oneshotted Surfer.

And that wasn't feigning defeat.

Originally posted by leonidas


i KNEW you'd show that scan.... you do realize that scan is nearly 50 years old, yes? but, ok, cool. i concede. we'll say that sbp wins 1/10 because he can seal mephisto in....solidified lava.

because he has hardly any showings to suggest THAT scene isn't ridiculous.


I like how losing to Thor means you will lose only 1/10 to SBP. Yes, the scan is 50 years old, will you post something new from Mephisto? Because I can post quite a few showings where he gets his ass handed to him. Originally posted by leonidas
oh, i know he has some lows, but again, by general depiction, i don't see how prime has a chance to put him down. it can be argued that meph would have hell (heh) putting prime down, but with enough time it's hard for me to see meph losing any but a tiny minority tbh. /shrug

not entirely sure how much GA prime would do. meph just has too many options--when at his best.

opr, do you recall any times when meph forcefully took a soul? i recall several 'deals' but don't remember him actively taking a soul i don't think....
You're once again forgetting, he can just punch Mephisto really, really hard.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
If there is one thing Hell lacks it's magma
He lost because of falling rocks, not lava.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, I don't know how standard Prime would fair, but the dude's resistance to various types of energy attacks is off the charts(tanking pure anti-matter from AM himself, along with universe-busting Quantum energy is f*cking unreal...and that's just the tip of the iceberg.) Tack on the fact that Meph is a magic-based entity, and I could totally see Prime tanking most of his direct attacks.

yeah, that's why i made the thread. meph would need to be more exotic. the black lanterns scans abhi showed did show one possibility--meph could just keep sending, literally, infinite numbers against prime. he's got some powerful souls down there but endless numbers of demons. prime could kill...billions, but it wouldn't matter. his reality control in hell is very high too. i could more believably see meph playing off primes love for laurie, tempting him with his dream-come-true. not sure how it would go though, but it would be interesting.



yeah i don't really consider bfr a win though. i think the ONLY showing that gives me pause to say prime could take this is the alejandro ghost rider battle. but i can't quite figure if what she did to him was because she was magic herself, and a demon. she pulled his heart out and the heart represented hell itself--ie destroying it destroys all of hell which is the only way to actually beat mephisto for real. if he pulled some illogical sh!t and was able to get his heart, he could win. but again, that was a one time deal that i don't think prime could auto repeat due to circumstance. i say that because in another instance he was again stabbed right through the heart and....nothing. didn't impact him at all. in his better showings, in every sense of the word meph is an abstract in hell. his physical body is meaningless and can literally change shape and form at will. 'punching him really hard' isn't going to matter. if he doesn't want to be touched he can't be touched. maybe a stalemate with GA prime? not sure. has prime ever beaten a real abstract being? how does he fight if meph assumes a spirit form? just doesn't seem like prime could answer meph's more exotic powers. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas

opr, do you recall any times when meph forcefully took a soul? i recall several 'deals' but don't remember him actively taking a soul i don't think....

Im pretty sure that's one of the limitations he actually has given that Mephisto's whole shtick is tricking people into committing sins so he can claim their souls. It's also the main reason he didn't just kill surfer instantly (outright mentioned), he wanted to corrupt him and then kill him so that his soul goes to his realm.

thought so too. but i remember an incident where meph literally plucked ss's soul right out of him. wasn't sure about the context of the scene though. do you know the one i'm talking about?

You're probably thinking when Mephisto was disguised as Nova (whom Surfer was romantically involved for a brief period of time before her death), Mephisto basically tricked surfer to pledge his love/soul for Nova (who was actually mephisto) and by doing so, enabled mephisto to rip his soul out.

Originally posted by leonidas
i could more believably see meph playing off primes love for laurie, tempting him with his dream-come-true. Hadn't thought about this, but it would actually make a lot of sense for Meph to f*ck with Prime in such a way... Totally fits with his essential nature as a 'tempter' and whathaveyou.