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Which reality warper?

Dominus.

Dominus.

why?

Because Dominus is a fully multiversal entity unlike Jamie. Jamie's reality warping can also be resisted via simple shape shifting.

How is Dominus multiversal?

Dominus' reality warping can be resisted by going to sleep.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
How is Dominus multiversal?

Dominus' reality warping can be resisted by going to sleep.

He created 4 alternate realities and merged them in one panel. Kismet also mentioned that he warped all reality to draw her out. He also made Superman feel multiversal madness and dispatched infinite versions of linear men with a gesture. Not to mention, he merged himself with the universe becoming the illuminator of all realities iirc.

Uh, what? So you're saying that Jamie should go to sleep to win this battle? So that leaves Dominus (an active player) vs a sleeping Jamie. Guess who will be considered the winner in a forum fight? Also no, it can't be resisted through sleeping, it merely hinders his most go-to tactic, he can still warp reality around a given person. Not to mention that he was weakened when Superman defeated him.

Originally posted by operator616
He created 4 alternate realities and merged them in one panel. Kismet also mentioned that he warped all reality to draw her out. He also made Superman feel multiversal madness and dispatched infinite versions of linear men with a gesture. Not to mention, he merged himself with the universe becoming the illuminator of all realities iirc.

I wouldn't call creating a temporal disturbance around Superman as creating 4 universes:

http://i56.tinypic.com/o8cvw8.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/296mcn5.jpg

Much of this was covered here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=15906086#post15905312

More:

http://i55.tinypic.com/5our10.jpg



That was just a tongue-in-cheek reference to Superman totally protecting himself from Dominus by going into a theta state.

Dominus seems to be a temporal manipulator who can actually warp reality in the immediate area.

Haha, absurd stomp for Jamie.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
I wouldn't call creating a temporal disturbance around Superman as creating 4 universes:


You realize this has nothing to do with the four realities he created, right? This was the multiverse madness showing. Yes, in that instance, he merely let Superman experience a multiverse of madness.

The four realities which he created previously, were real though. It was outright stated that they were not hallucinations:

http://imgur.com/atK2euk

Superman asking: "Was it all in my mind?"

Kismet answering: "They were no hallucinations. Dominus warped all reality..."

That should clear it up.



Originally posted by TheHulkster


That was just a tongue-in-cheek reference to Superman totally protecting himself from Dominus by going into a theta state.


And an irrelevant one at that.

I recall Dominus explicitly stating that he could still warp reality around Superman despite him going into the unconscious state.



Originally posted by TheHulkster

Dominus seems to be a temporal manipulator who can actually warp reality in the immediate area.

No, he's a major reality manipulator. Something which was stated time and time again.

http://imgur.com/vlVVGg8

"A being who can, at a whim, pull the reality carpet out from under us." According to Superman.

Dominus could also merge with the universe. Actually he could have done that whenever he liked but he wanted to kill Kismet first, and when that was no longer an option for him, he casually merged with the whole universe.

http://imgur.com/a/XmeFT

Braddock stomps.

Originally posted by operator616
You realize this has nothing to do with the four realities he created, right? This was the multiverse madness showing. Yes, in that instance, he merely let Superman experience a multiverse of madness.

The four realities which he created previously, were real though. It was outright stated that they were not hallucinations:

http://imgur.com/atK2euk

Superman asking: "Was it all in my mind?"

Kismet answering: "They were no hallucinations. Dominus warped all reality..."

That should clear it up.

The "multiverse madness" as you call it that Superman is experiencing is the moment of the "four realities". Those around Superman are not experiencing it, only Superman and him experiencing it is what we see in that scene.

Dominus's bios repeatedly declare that he uses his continuum control to warp reality. This is something the Infinity Men themselves do below:

http://i55.tinypic.com/2u9smtc.jpg

Even when he himself increases their numbers and then reduces them, he is doing so by picking them from various times:

http://oi55.tinypic.com/30sk7yb.jpg

His reality warping is linked to time manipulation and access to the mind and memories of his target.



I'm not sure how such an exploitable weakness is irrelevant. While unable to access Superman's mind, he is able to warp the immediate area solely for the sake of trying to distract Superman, but can not affect Superman.



Lot's of characters are major reality warpers. That doesn't make them multiversal.



Where does it state that he merges with the whole universe?

Originally posted by operator616
You realize this has nothing to do with the four realities he created, right? This was the multiverse madness showing. Yes, in that instance, he merely let Superman experience a multiverse of madness.

The four realities which he created previously, were real though. It was outright stated that they were not hallucinations:

http://imgur.com/atK2euk

Superman asking: "Was it all in my mind?"

Kismet answering: "They were no hallucinations. Dominus warped all reality..."

That should clear it up.





And an irrelevant one at that.

I recall Dominus explicitly stating that he could still warp reality around Superman despite him going into the unconscious state.





No, he's a major reality manipulator. Something which was stated time and time again.

http://imgur.com/vlVVGg8

"A being who can, at a whim, pull the reality carpet out from under us." According to Superman.

Dominus could also merge with the universe. Actually he could have done that whenever he liked but he wanted to kill Kismet first, and when that was no longer an option for him, he casually merged with the whole universe.

http://imgur.com/a/XmeFT

Originally posted by Glorificus
Braddock stomps.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
The "multiverse madness" as you call it that Superman is experiencing is the moment of the "four realities". Those around Superman are not experiencing it, only Superman and him experiencing it is what we see in that scene.



No it is not, it's a separate instance.

The four realities are merged by dominus in superman #138 (in previous superman-related issues, he was experiencing those realities). Then Dominus confronts kismet who flees from him in that same issue. The comes Adventures of superman #561 where Dominus disguises himself as waverider to learn where Kismet fled, and only after that comes action comics #748 where the multiverse madness showing happens. So yes, it is most definitely a separate instance.

And is there a reason why you simply ignored Kismet's comments? She outright said that they were real and that Dominus actually warped reality.

Originally posted by TheHulkster

Dominus's bios repeatedly declare that he uses his continuum control to warp reality. This is something the Infinity Men themselves do below:

Even when he himself increases their numbers and then reduces them, he is doing so by picking them from various times:

His reality warping is linked to time manipulation and access to the mind and memories of his target.


Nobody denied that he was using temporal manipulation in that specific showing. However he has warped reality several times throughout the arc.

Originally posted by TheHulkster

I'm not sure how such an exploitable weakness is irrelevant. While unable to access Superman's mind, he is able to warp the immediate area solely for the sake of trying to distract Superman, but can not affect Superman.


So Jamie goes to sleep, which leaves Dominus as the only active player between the two. Leaving Dominus as the winner. Is that more to your liking?

Originally posted by TheHulkster


Where does it state that he merges with the whole universe?

It was shown on panel for one. And secondly, he states that he has taken Kismet's mantle as a cosmic force (universal embodiment) in the universe when we see him merge with it. It's quite obvious what was going in those pages, actually.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
I wouldn't call creating a temporal disturbance around Superman as creating 4 universes:

http://i56.tinypic.com/o8cvw8.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/296mcn5.jpg

Much of this was covered here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=15906086#post15905312

More:

http://i55.tinypic.com/5our10.jpg



That was just a tongue-in-cheek reference to Superman totally protecting himself from Dominus by going into a theta state.

Dominus seems to be a temporal manipulator who can actually warp reality in the immediate area.
That was Dominus impersonating Waverider.

Also Rip flat out says that these were alternate realities which Superman experienced.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What an idiot. Waverider flat out says that those are alternate realities.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29634726_ManOfSteel83p01.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29634727_ManOfSteel83p02.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29634729_ManOfSteel83p03.jpg http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29634730_ManOfSteel83p04.jpg

"Are those illusions."

"I don't think so."

It is spelled it out out for goons like you.



As you have not read the issue or anything Superman related, that's a laughable out of context scene to quote. It was Dominus himself trying to lead Superman to Kismet.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29634724_AdventuresOfSuperman561p21.jpg

Heck, even his DC Encyclopedia entry has him creating alternate realities.

http://s6d3.turboimg.net/t1/29634725_DCE_098.jpg



GTFO. Those were actual realities and later he merged those realities as well.



Haha, what a goon. Its spelled out in the Dominus arc as well.

http://i.imgur.com/khgpCxD.jpg?1

This guy just go thread to thread trying to pass off complete nonsense?

Originally posted by operator616
No it is not, it's a separate instance.

The four realities are merged by dominus in superman #138 (in previous superman-related issues, he was experiencing those realities). Then Dominus confronts kismet who flees from him in that same issue. The comes Adventures of superman #561 where Dominus disguises himself as waverider to learn where Kismet fled, and only after that comes action comics #748 where the multiverse madness showing happens. So yes, it is most definitely a separate instance.

Those three issues seem to cover different aspects of one long warp until the real Waverider appears at the end of issue #748 to see Superman caught up in it, as shown.



I'm sure I stated earlier that no one is saying that he doesn't warp reality.



Right. Mostly using temporal manipulation (which is how he warps reality).



Does Superman go to sleep?



That's a pretty liberal extrapolation from art. Kismet was not a universal embodiment during that time. Busiek sort of shoehorned her in to that role years later. Before then, she illuminates paths.

Dominus is one of the most exaggerated characters in comics and due mostly to Superman fans because of the need for him to have beaten a multiversal power. Problem is that I have yet to be given a demonstration of such multiversal power. Manipulated timelines and a pocket dimension the he resides in doesn't cut it.

Originally posted by Juntai
This guy just go thread to thread trying to pass off complete nonsense?

Every time.

.

*To reaffirm what operator has already said...


By all implications, Dominus himself operated on a fully multiversal scale...

"Though none are present now to witness my glorious rise -- ALL the worldS of ALL the universeS shall tremble!":
http://i.imgur.com/nXst0vg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9hV5JfH.jpg

"From this day forward, the universeS will exist as I decree!":
http://i.imgur.com/Q4ATuMU.jpg

Dominus forces Superman to bear the madness of the entire multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/TrjtWE2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7s2U5HK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zJoRTHx.jpg

Waverider(aka. "The Seer of Hypertime": "I can sense a web of possible timelineS... Past and future... Enmeshing him in a tangle of alternate realitIES.":
http://i.imgur.com/uyDHQ6U.jpg


*Confirmation that Dominus created/merged multiple universeS...

Superman: "Why the FOUR realitIES for me? Was it all in my mind? What was Dominus after?"
Kismet: "It was NO hallucination. warped ALL of reality so he could draw me from hiding.":
http://i.imgur.com/Bdzlo3P.jpg


Aside from that, Dominus was capable of overpowering Kismet(and Superman, lawl) rather easily:
http://i.imgur.com/LGyFm38.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PLINdfc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wruKroh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8breesd.jpg


This is especially important because Kismet operates on a multiversal scale as well...

"As a cosmic entity, I know the nine million terrors of the MULTIVERSE.":
http://i.imgur.com/y9n659z.jpg

"I am able to look across time and the various realitIES -- comprehending them ALL.":
http://i.imgur.com/63mqYMR.jpg

And Rip Hunter, who knows more about the inner-workings of DC cosmology than ANYONE, referred to Kismet as the "Illuminator of realitIES":
http://i.imgur.com/wL9ZuQW.jpg

Heck, even Kismet's official bio gives her multiversal status:
http://i.imgur.com/eyPRoJC.jpg
"Base of Operations: ALL known realitIES" vin



*And again: Dominus >> Kismet... He trounces Jamie without much issue, tbh.


Originally posted by operator616
I recall Dominus explicitly stating that he could still warp reality around Superman despite him going into the unconscious state. Indeed he did:
http://i.imgur.com/UdFf9fR.jpg

That's an interesting interchanging of terms that are not necessarily interchangeable.

Originally posted by Galan007
*To reaffirm what operator has already said...


By all implications, Dominus himself operated on a fully multiversal scale...

"Though none are present now to witness my glorious rise -- ALL the worldS of ALL the universeS shall tremble!":
http://i.imgur.com/nXst0vg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9hV5JfH.jpg

"From this day forward, the universeS will exist as I decree!":
http://i.imgur.com/Q4ATuMU.jpg

Dominus forces Superman to bear the madness of the entire multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/TrjtWE2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7s2U5HK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zJoRTHx.jpg

Waverider(aka. "The Seer of Hypertime": "I can sense a web of possible timelineS... Past and future... Enmeshing him in a tangle of alternate realitIES.":
http://i.imgur.com/uyDHQ6U.jpg


*Confirmation that Dominus created/merged multiple universeS...

Superman: "Why the FOUR realitIES for me? Was it all in my mind? What was Dominus after?"
Kismet: "It was NO hallucination. warped ALL of reality so he could draw me from hiding.":
http://i.imgur.com/Bdzlo3P.jpg


Aside from that, Dominus was capable of overpowering Kismet(and Superman, lawl) rather easily:
http://i.imgur.com/LGyFm38.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PLINdfc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wruKroh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8breesd.jpg


This is especially important because Kismet operates on a multiversal scale as well...

"As a cosmic entity, I know the nine million terrors of the MULTIVERSE.":
http://i.imgur.com/y9n659z.jpg

"I am able to look across time and the various realitIES -- comprehending them ALL.":
http://i.imgur.com/63mqYMR.jpg

And Rip Hunter, who knows more about the inner-workings of DC cosmology than ANYONE, referred to Kismet as the "Illuminator of realitIES":
http://i.imgur.com/wL9ZuQW.jpg

Heck, even Kismet's official bio gives her multiversal status:
http://i.imgur.com/eyPRoJC.jpg
"Base of Operations: ALL known realitIES" vin



*And again: Dominus >> Kismet... He trounces Jamie without much issue, tbh.


Indeed he did:
http://i.imgur.com/UdFf9fR.jpg



Clear as day.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Those three issues seem to cover different aspects of one long warp until the real Waverider appears at the end of issue #748 to see Superman caught up in it, as shown.


Im tired of this tbh. Must i really spoon feed you the events? Because i dislike going in circles.

Let's begin. In Superman #138, dominus merges the four realities.

http://imgur.com/0F6huUR

After that happens, he directly engages Kismet but before he can kill her she transforms into a green ball of energy and flees:

http://imgur.com/2q8Hkw6

The story continues in Adventures of Superman #561 which centers around the hunt for Kismet (after she fled from Dominus who merged the four realities just before his confrontation with her). Waverider converses Superman about the events which happened in Superman #138, but it's revealed that Waverider is actually Dominus:

http://imgur.com/LnOu4FB
http://imgur.com/s9m2zT9
http://imgur.com/Fdt7tgH

So the above issue was definitely a continuation of Superman #138.

The story continues in Action comics #748:

We outright see Kismet in the green ball of energy (after she fled from Dominus):

http://imgur.com/kZjb76B

We also have Waverider telling Superman that the meeting between himself and superman in the previous issue was not actually him. Superman deduces that it was Dominus and goes with Waverider to search for Kismet. Reality starts to warp and it turns out that this Waverider is Dominus as well, fooling Superman for the second time.

http://imgur.com/mziUoDm
http://imgur.com/CcEYtGt

And after that directly Dominus forces the multiverse madness upon Superman after which the real waverider along with linear men show up (they never did previously, it was all Dominus).

http://imgur.com/a/wdOWX

So no, those issues weren't one big fat warp. They were chronological events taking place after the four realities were merged. Quite clearly, i might add. So im not sure where you got that they were all part of those four alternate realities.

Originally posted by TheHulkster

I'm sure I stated earlier that no one is saying that he doesn't warp reality.



Not sure what's your point here though, but whatever.

Originally posted by TheHulkster


Right. Mostly using temporal manipulation (which is how he warps reality).


He warps time, space and matter:

http://imgur.com/MPwsW9c

Originally posted by TheHulkster


Does Superman go to sleep?


Superman used a technique which Jamie can't replicate, so im not sure what's your point.

Originally posted by TheHulkster

That's a pretty liberal extrapolation from art. Kismet was not a universal embodiment during that time. Busiek sort of shoehorned her in to that role years later. Before then, she illuminates paths.


Yes she was. When Superman confronted her, she explicitly mentioned that she is the space around him:

http://imgur.com/pFOuinA

Waverider mentioned that if Kismet dies, the fabric of time would unravel.

http://imgur.com/dNYY8b0

Originally posted by TheHulkster

Dominus is one of the most exaggerated characters in comics and due mostly to Superman fans because of the need for him to have beaten a multiversal power. Problem is that I have yet to be given a demonstration of such multiversal power. Manipulated timelines and a pocket dimension the he resides in doesn't cut it.

The problem is that you didn't comprehend the story right. Personally, i legitimately dont give a shit if Superman has beaten a multiversal being or not.

Dominus wins