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Who wins ?

The Beyonder can't destroy Death, but I don't think Death has the necessary power to lay claim over Beyonder.

Death is clearly above Beyonder, he wouldnt survive

How is Death clearly above the Beyonder?

Originally posted by RangerDX
Death is clearly above Beyonder, he wouldnt survive

Why bro ?

Originally posted by RangerDX
Death is clearly above Beyonder, he wouldnt survive No she isn't.

Pre Retcon Beyonder wins

Originally posted by Mindset
No she isn't.

Why

BR

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The Beyonder can't destroy Death, but I don't think Death has the necessary power to lay claim over Beyonder.
PR Beyonder already destroyed Death across the entire Multiverse in Marvel. The Living Tribunal and all other powers in the MU were there and couldn't stop him or reverse what he did (not even Molecule Man). After the retcon, this feat is STILL valid as it's been mentioned in multiple handbook entries and on panel in an issue of Quasar.

Beyonder, even post retcon, can erase a concept like Death on a multiversal scale.

Death of the Endless > Marvel Death, lol.

Death of the Endless is definitely superior to Marvel's iteration of Death(as are ALL concepts embodied by the Endless, imo.)

Beyonder wins, though.

yeah i was thinking the same thing....

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Death of the Endless > Marvel Death, lol. Originally posted by Galan007
Death of the Endless is definitely superior to Marvel's iteration of Death(as are ALL concepts embodied by the Endless, imo.)

Beyonder wins, though. Originally posted by leonidas
yeah i was thinking the same thing....
Debatable. Even if true, doesn't change the fact that the Classic LT couldn't stop or undo what Beyonder did, even POST retcon. And the classic LT is superior to any of the Endless.

not sure about lt>endless, but maybe. regardless, beyonder wins this imo.

Originally posted by zopzop
Debatable. Not really, tbh. Marvel's death has been cheapened a heck of a lot more than Death of the Endless over the years.

...But it doesn't matter either way, because I already said:
Originally posted by Galan007
Beyonder wins, though.

The Endless should be far higher than Marvel's Death .

the one beyonder killed was considered the multiversal embodiment, so we're essentially comparing multiversal vs multiversal. hard to say with any certainty which one is greater, but galan is right, marvel's death hasn't been shown as consistently. plus she's way the phuk cooler.

Originally posted by zopzop
PR Beyonder already destroyed Death across the entire Multiverse in Marvel. The Living Tribunal and all other powers in the MU were there and couldn't stop him or reverse what he did (not even Molecule Man). After the retcon, this feat is STILL valid as it's been mentioned in multiple handbook entries and on panel in an issue of Quasar.

Beyonder, even post retcon, can erase a concept like Death on a multiversal scale.

Incorrect it has been stated that it was an illusion all inside of the Beyonder's head, and that he was an incomplete/malfunctioning cosmic cube.

None of it ever happened

Originally posted by Board Walker
Incorrect it has been stated that it was an illusion all inside of the Beyonder's head, and that he was an incomplete/malfunctioning cosmic cube.

None of it ever happened Incorrect.

The OP specifies it's PR Beyonder anyways, lmfao.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The OP specifies it's PR Beyonder anyways, lmfao.
I know my point is, that monstrous feat of slaughtering Death across the Multiverse and the inability of anyone, even the LT, to stop or reverse it is CANON to POST Retcon Beyonder too.

Beyonder wins PRE or POST retcon.

I was talking to Board Walker.

Originally posted by Mindset
Incorrect.

You are incorrect

The Beyonder was an incomplete cosmic cube, and was at most a universal power when combined with the molecule man. Nothing more than that.

http://i.imgur.com/LxWL7Lc.jpg?1

Originally posted by Board Walker
You are incorrect

The Beyonder was an incomplete cosmic cube, and was at most a universal power when combined with the molecule man. Nothing more than that.

http://i.imgur.com/LxWL7Lc.jpg?1 I'm aware of what he is.

You are still incorrect.

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm aware of what he is.

You are still incorrect.

Words with no evidence, your post is mostly opinion.

Originally posted by Board Walker
Words with no evidence, your post is mostly opinion. Nope, it's fact.

Originally posted by Galan007
Death of the Endless is definitely superior to Marvel's iteration of Death(as are ALL concepts embodied by the Endless, imo.)
Not really. Marvel's Death is not too far removed conceptually from Death of the Endless. Neither are avatars or gods of death, they're both death. And to my knowledge Death of the Endless doesn't have any impressive feats.

I see this going the exact same way as it did in Secret Wars II #6.

Well, they're both ranked 1-B at Vsbattle.

Which means absolutely nothing. Basically, all it takes is a blurb about existing outside of a multiverse to rank as 1-A, which PR Beyonder doesn't qualify as for existing in the "Beyond" universe, a tremendously large -verse. yet still a -verse.

Funny how this logic works to the advantage of something like the Lovecraft-Verse, who I'm certain had no concept at all of the theories these nerds are exploiting..

Originally posted by Astner
Marvel's Death is not too far removed conceptually from Death of the Endless.
Speaking of, look at this scan from Excalibur 25 ( I think) :
https://s12.postimg.org/5xee808xp/Excalibur_2325_-_Death.png
That's Marvel's Death showing some of her many forms. Notice the first image on the bottom left, remind you of anyone?

Originally posted by Astner
And to my knowledge Death of the Endless doesn't have any impressive feats. ...Death of the Endless was shown as the final force that ends creation, along with absolutely EVERYTHING within it(even conceptual beings.) Afaik, that is vastly above anything Marvel Death has done on panel..? mmm

That's above getting beaten by Grandmaster in her own realm.

ermm

Originally posted by Galan007
...Death of the Endless was shown as the final force that ends creation, along with absolutely EVERYTHING within it(even conceptual beings.) Afaik, that is vastly above anything Marvel Death has done on panel..? mmm
I know it's been stated, but when was it shown?

Anyway, I think you're overstating the role of the Endless. From Sandman #16:

http://i.imgur.com/oeYLUw2m.jpg

"We exist because they know, deep in their hearts, that we exist."

They exist and are sustained by the beliefs of the living. Or that's how I interpret it.

Originally posted by Astner
I know it's been stated, but when was it shown? Books of Magic #4(original series) -- Death is literally SHOWN fulfilling her purpose. I've posted the scans here dozens of times.

As for the Endless: their roles as multiversal conceptual embodiments have been reiterated time and time again on panel(as recently as Overture, and even Morrison's Map of the Multiverse -- which proves they even preside over higher-dimensional planes as well.) A cherry-picked scan doesn't change that, I'm afraid... But I'm not about to get into this argument yet again with you and zop... Your opinion(s) are obviously not going to change, so discussing the Endless with you is really just a waste of time. /shrug

Someone with time on their hands should make an Endless respect thread.

MythLord did it for a few:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/destiny-of-the-endless-respect-thread/131521/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/delirium-of-the-endless-respect-thread/131441/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/dream-of-the-endless-morpheus-respect-thread/131403/

Oh, and this: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/respect-death-of-the-endless-1787365/

@Astner
To be fair to Galan he HAS posted it so many times, he's probably sick of looking at the scan. But here it is :
https://s17.postimg.org/rvym29l6j/5181011-destiny.png https://s17.postimg.org/uekb2y6wr/5181010-death_gallery_27.jpg

Doesn't make a difference though. That scan you posted with Dream/Desire is damning. The Endless are totally dependent on living things for their powers and very existence! Explains a lot really.

^ It's only 'damning' if you've never thought about the concepts embodied by some of the Endless. Dream, for example, embodies the dreams of all sentient beings across creation. If there were all of the sudden no sentient beings left in creation to dream, then Dream himself would obviously lose his conceptual purpose and become irrelevant -- this is when Death would take him. The same concept applies to quite a few members of the family... It's a pretty basic and self-explanatory concept, tbh. I'm surprised you guys are just now realizing/grasping this.

However, other members of the Endless are NOT at all reliant on the existence of others to preserve themselves -- hence why Death, for example, was completely unaffected by the destruction of ALL creation, and simply 'locked the door behind her' as she left the void.

Another thing about the Endless, they don't operate in day to day fights. They could care less about lower beings killing each other. They are embodiments of there names, so I still don't know why we make fight threads with the Endless.

I think Death might probably wins this . She is not limited by the concept of dimensions and call kill dream whose death caused a reality wave causing almost all of existence and all of realities to collapse . Even escaping in to the void won't save anyone from death . Her aspect Nekron is showed as representing the void between all of universes .

If beyonder struggled to kill Marvel death then I don't see how exactly he can erase death of endless who exists in all the other creations in the void .

Heaven alone is beyond existence and beyond the concept of dimensions or any other stuff .

Originally posted by Obsidian1
I think Death might probably wins this . She is not limited by the concept of dimensions and call kill dream whose death caused a reality wave causing almost all of existence and all of realities to collapse . Even escaping in to the void won't save anyone from death . Her aspect Nekron is showed as representing the void between all of universes .

If beyonder struggled to kill Marvel death then I don't see how exactly he can erase death of endless who exists in all the other creations in the void .

Heaven alone is beyond existence and beyond the concept of dimensions or any other stuff .

Death of the Endless >> Marvel's Death

Originally posted by SquallX
Another thing about the Endless, they don't operate in day to day fights. They could care less about lower beings killing each other. They are embodiments of there names, so I still don't know why we make fight threads with the Endless.
They're in fights. Dream even lost one, in his own realm.

http://i.imgur.com/6yi7BVam.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/a8vBcBzm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/TWRWPKXm.jpg

I'm not sure why everyone has this overly inflated opinion of them to be honest. Not only do they have a poor array of feats, they've also demonstrated plenty of limitations.

Originally posted by Photon-2
Death of the Endless >> Marvel's Death
http://i.imgur.com/hVH7tq9.jpg

Pre Retcon Beyonder wins. Lets remember that Pre Retcon Beyonder was basically unstoppable..He was OP. He could create universes, destroy anything he wants...etc. Still in the end he was "Retcon" by The Living Tribunal. But yet, the first versions of The Beyonder would kill anything...Only TOAA and The Beyonders would be above him in terms of power... and maybe Molecule Man.

L