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Unchained Vaylin (Chapter VIII of KOTET) vs SoD Maul and ROTS Kenobi. All-out fight, to the death, on neutral ground. Good chemistry between Maul and Kenobi (they won't be trying to kill each other here).

Who wins and why?

Maul might be able to resist Vaylin but it's debatable.

Vaylin, solidly.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vaylin, solidly.

Chained Vaylin ragdolls both

Vaylin wrecks

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Chained Vaylin ragdolls both


http://replygif.net/i/715.gif

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Vaylin, solidly.

Vaylin destroys

Vaylin gets destroyed

Vaylin easily.

I see a lot of one sided opinions, but thus far, nobody has actually explained their opinion.

If you want a discussion, how about you start one.

Originally posted by ares834
If you want a discussion, how about you start one. meh, don't one that much about Vaylin since TOR sucks and I refuse to keep up with garbage like that.

I'd give it to the team, tbh Kenobi matching Anakin, or holding him for a lengthy Duel, plus Maul. I'd see them taking her out Via lightsaber Combat. Though by themselves they are no match, force wise.

You can't use the Kenobi vs Anakin fight for an accurate assessment.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
I'd give it to the team, tbh Kenobi matching Anakin, or holding him for a lengthy Duel, plus Maul. I'd see them taking her out Via lightsaber Combat. Though by themselves they are no match, force wise.

Kenobi had the advantage of knowing Anakin's style inside out, and while Kenobi was hindered Anakin was much more hindered. Even then, Anakin was driving Kenobi back and Force Pushed him against a wall. So, basically, a hindered Anakin was beating Kenobi who had a style advantage.

Apart from that, Anakin is canonically one tier above Obi-Wan and in Legends has Force feats that suggest he can outright ragdoll Kenobi.

Originally posted by Sinious
You can't use the Kenobi vs Anakin fight for an accurate assessment.


This would be a very different fight for Obi-Wan Kenobi and he doesn't stands a chance here.

The team takes it, definitely.

Originally posted by MythLord
The team takes it, definitely.
It doesn't.

Kenobi megaliths Vaylin before Maul drags a freighter onto her corpse.

Vaylin thrashes Kenobi with the Force and makes Maul kneel before the dragon.

Great, so what does Vaylin have that rivals Kenobi cracking, holding upright, and tearing apart chunk by chunk entire rows of 500 m megaliths?

Or is this 2016 and we're still in that fantasy where fcking Bane can "easily destroy" Kenobi with the force?

Or rather is this a few months ago when this feat you're arguing hadn't been debunked by better debaters than yourself?

The feat's not been debunked, I've already responded to the attempts at dismissing it here. But say we take away the part of the feat which has ever been contested here(holding the megaliths upright), and Kenobi cracking rows of and then tearing and pushing chunks of an entire formation(demolishing it to the extent that a "monstrous cloud of dust rose above the towers" of megaliths thick enough to blot midday suns is still vastly superior to anything Vaylin or Bane have done.

Tell me what does Bane have to do with this debate? Or are you simply trying to get under my skin? I must say this is getting extremely pathetic how I can't so much as disagree with someone without them deflecting to Bane.

Before I get too far into the feat, I'd like to debunk something I've never seen anyone else debunk, and that is the fact that they were not indeed 500 meter tall towers, the quote mentioning half a kilometer is in reference to the elevation of the clearing the towers were found in within the larger formation. So the claim that the towers were 500 meters tall is baseless.

But no the feat has been pretty conclusively debunked. As far as cracking the towers and shearing of chunks of it goes, the condition the towers were in is specified as "crumbling blocks," and it doesn't take much thickness to blot midday suns. A wooden post holding phone lines outside my house that's maybe a foot thick can adequately blot out the sun at the right angle, so that doesn't speak as much to its thickness or structural integrity as you want it to, or even its height, I've hiked in woods before at midday with trees tall enough to blot out the midday sun and the tallest tree in the world isn't even 120 meters tall. Not to mention the chunks displaced from the tower are certainly not as big as the towers themselves, with the first of the chunks being described as a knife shaped slab small enough for Orrin to successfully leap away from, some of which were pebbles and nuggets, and some of which were described as huge shards. The size of these huge shards is never specified enough to even implicate that they're larger than the obelisks Dooku lifted, not to mention the fact that all Obi-Wan would've had to do would be create a crack in the stone or horizontally shove it enough for gravity to do the rest (particularly in the instance of the first slab which was described as balanced on the structure), and that he did this in sequence as opposed to displacing all of the mass with one exertion at the same time. You can argue this is impressive but it's nowhere near as phenomenal as you're making it out to be.

Plus, as far as I know there is zero indication anywhere in the text that the structure of the towers as a whole was ever destabilized to the point at which the whole towers risked collapsing and would need to be held upright, or any text indicating that Kenobi did telekinetically hold the towers upright or even stabilize them for that matter. So as far as I'm concerned, you're talking shit when it comes to Kenobi holding the towers upright until you can find me actual evidence that suggests otherwise.

You are the person pushing this feat, so the burden is on you to prove its impressiveness. Unless you can provide evidence that Kenobi held the towers upright, provide any indication as to how massive the large chunks of stone were that Obi-Wan was displacing, then your claim to this being a high tier telekinetic feat is an empty one. (also the dust quote you put in parenthesis is not a real quote from the source)

Vaylin's ability to instantly overwhelm Arcann's force defenses with a portion of a Force attack she unleashed upon the group she was fighting is more than enough to prove Kenobi is completely outclassed in the Force here considering Arcann's capability to shield himself from the focal point of a prolonged lightning assault that blew up several ships. To put it bluntly, Arcann shielded himself from a much more destructive display of force power than the one you have provided for Kenobi, and Vaylin was able to easily overwhelm his force defenses, so yes Obi-Wan and Maul for that matter are outclassed in the Force as far as this fight is concerned.

Valkorion was only able to hold back chained Vaylin due to her conditioning, he tried holding her back without using her conditioning against her and it failed miserably, frightening Valkorion in the process.

Oh yeah, and I find it doubtful that Kenobi was holding the entire towers upright or doing anything too monumental with his power considering that a little while later in the same location when a Krayt dragon collapsed part of a tower he strained to move half a ton of stone.

"The rubble halted in midair, as if collected in an invisible basin. Orrin looked at it in awe. And then looked back at Ben, mesmerized. Ben's face strained from the effort, but he gritted his teeth and gave a shove to the air. Half a ton of collapsing stone tipped harmlessly away from the prone Tusken child. "

Now I'm not gonna be a cheap **** and argue anyone who can manipulate more than half a ton is an Obi-Wan tier telekinetic, but I will say this pretty thoroughly disproves the notion of Kenobi telekinetically manipulating the entirety of the towers if moving a segment of one is enough to strain him.

LMFAO.

Yeah, duo dies horribly.

R.I.P. Rocky.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Tell me what does Bane have to do with this debate? Or are you simply trying to get under my skin? I must say this is getting extremely pathetic how I can't so much as disagree with someone without them deflecting to Bane.

Before I get too far into the feat, I'd like to debunk something I've never seen anyone else debunk, and that is the fact that they were not indeed 500 meter tall towers, the quote mentioning half a kilometer is in reference to the elevation of the clearing the towers were found in within the larger formation. So the claim that the towers were 500 meters tall is baseless.

But no the feat has been pretty conclusively debunked. As far as cracking the towers and shearing of chunks of it goes, the condition the towers were in is specified as "crumbling blocks," and it doesn't take much thickness to blot midday suns. A wooden post holding phone lines outside my house that's maybe a foot thick can adequately blot out the sun at the right angle, so that doesn't speak as much to its thickness or structural integrity as you want it to, or even its height, I've hiked in woods before at midday with trees tall enough to blot out the midday sun and the tallest tree in the world isn't even 120 meters tall. Not to mention the chunks displaced from the tower are certainly not as big as the towers themselves, with the first of the chunks being described as a knife shaped slab small enough for Orrin to successfully leap away from, some of which were pebbles and nuggets, and some of which were described as huge shards. The size of these huge shards is never specified enough to even implicate that they're larger than the obelisks Dooku lifted, not to mention the fact that all Obi-Wan would've had to do would be create a crack in the stone or horizontally shove it enough for gravity to do the rest (particularly in the instance of the first slab which was described as balanced on the structure), and that he did this in sequence as opposed to displacing all of the mass with one exertion at the same time. You can argue this is impressive but it's nowhere near as phenomenal as you're making it out to be.

Plus, as far as I know there is zero indication anywhere in the text that the structure of the towers as a whole was ever destabilized to the point at which the whole towers risked collapsing and would need to be held upright, or any text indicating that Kenobi did telekinetically hold the towers upright or even stabilize them for that matter. So as far as I'm concerned, you're talking shit when it comes to Kenobi holding the towers upright until you can find me actual evidence that suggests otherwise.

You are the person pushing this feat, so the burden is on you to prove its impressiveness. Unless you can provide evidence that Kenobi held the towers upright, provide any indication as to how massive the large chunks of stone were that Obi-Wan was displacing, then your claim to this being a high tier telekinetic feat is an empty one. (also the dust quote you put in parenthesis is not a real quote from the source)

Vaylin's ability to instantly overwhelm Arcann's force defenses with a portion of a Force attack she unleashed upon the group she was fighting is more than enough to prove Kenobi is completely outclassed in the Force here considering Arcann's capability to shield himself from the focal point of a prolonged lightning assault that blew up several ships. To put it bluntly, Arcann shielded himself from a much more destructive display of force power than the one you have provided for Kenobi, and Vaylin was able to easily overwhelm his force defenses, so yes Obi-Wan and Maul for that matter are outclassed in the Force as far as this fight is concerned.
fair enough then, Kenobi dies horribly, I'm going to have to end this recent Kenobi parade on cv then

It seems Kenobi's been debunked

Much Shame

Just so Kenobi can fall a little less:

1. The "Monstrous cloud" refers to this
The other Tuskens had seen Ben's defense-had seen the monstrous cloud he raised in The Pillars, had seen the corpse of the krayt. There had to be some reason these powerful figures kept arriving amid the Sand People.
Credit: Star Wars Kenobi

2. Kenobi can't just push it, as he pushes said shards enough so that they just land by Orrin, but don't hit him

Aside from that, I'm going t have to take the L

Damn, kbro. I feel bad for you.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Damn, kbro. I feel bad for you.
Frankly, in hindsight, I should have more thoroughly vetted the conclusions LOTL was drawing and pushing for CV before defending before so aggressively taking up and pushing them.

I also shouldn't have jumped on the cv bandwagon so quickly. I was aware there were logical assumptions being made but since I don't actually have SW:K on me, I had what was actually presented and the logical conclusions seemed to make sense.

Regardless, I'm going to have to try and stop this on CV where my interpretation of the showing has been going seemingly unquestioned.

I'm also going to have to to reassess my placing of Kenobi.

Maybe AZ can actually get somewhere with whatever scaling he's trying to pull from Kenobi piercing sid's nexus, but till then I'm going to be lowering the crap out of Kenobi

Honestly Kbro, I respect that you had the balls to concede there. Humility is one of the most important qualities a human being can have IMO. It's what keeps people from being arrogant which is IMO the root of all evil.

Fair enough on the cloud, and yeah he would've likely exerted telekinetic influence on the falling rocks to alter their trajectory.

mad respect.

@Emperordmb on 'ownage' rampage.

Time to bend the knee.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Oh yeah, and I find it doubtful that Kenobi was holding the entire towers upright or doing anything too monumental with his power considering that a little while later in the same location when a Krayt dragon collapsed part of a tower he strained to move half a ton of stone.

"The rubble halted in midair, as if collected in an invisible basin. Orrin looked at it in awe. And then looked back at Ben, mesmerized. Ben's face strained from the effort, but he gritted his teeth and gave a shove to the air. Half a ton of collapsing stone tipped harmlessly away from the prone Tusken child. "

Now I'm not gonna be a cheap **** and argue anyone who can manipulate more than half a ton is an Obi-Wan tier telekinetic, but I will say this pretty thoroughly disproves the notion of Kenobi telekinetically manipulating the entirety of the towers if moving a segment of one is enough to strain him.
Oh dear....

Darth Malgus - decades before his prime (and badly wounded) - was able to hold several tonnes of debris in place above himself and blow it apart afterwards.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
snip

I quite appreciate your passion in supporting your favorite characters even if you get out of hand sometimes.

Kbro, Nothing but respect.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@Emperordmb on 'ownage' rampage.

Time to bend the knee.

Stop trying to subtly recruit for the TOR brigade plox.

I feel it would be inappropriate of me if I didn't note that Kbro conceding hasn't changed his image in my eyes in any way.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I feel it would be inappropriate of me if I didn't note that Kbro conceding hasn't changed his image in my eyes in any way.
I feel it would be completely appropriate of me to note that I don't give a fck