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Who wins?
No Prep..
No B.F.R...





The FF

Reed
Thing
Sue
Torch


Vs


X-Men

Beast
Colossus
Storm
Iceman

FF win. X-Men have no counter to Sue.

Can Iceman do things through her FF?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Can Iceman do things through her FF?
No clue, but I tend to doubt it. Regarding the rest of the match ups :
Reed > Beast
Thing >= Colossus
Iceman > HT
Sue > Storm (and the rest of the X-men team)

But if Iceman is > HT, can't see what the others can do to him.

Forcefields in his lungs? Lol. Bubble in brain? Suffocation? Even trapping him in a bubble and BFRing him shouldn't work, based on his consciousness.

All depends on Iceman and Sue.

Without BFR, I don't know if they have any permanent answer to Iceman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But if Iceman is > HT, can't see what the others can do to him.

Forcefields in his lungs? Lol. Bubble in brain? Suffocation? Even trapping him in a bubble and BFRing him shouldn't work, based on his consciousness.
Iceman is very overrated. I mean he was owned by an oven because the humidity level wasn't high enough to sustain his powers. She can bubble him and fling him into space. He's now dead. He's not escaping her force fields.

Bfr is off though.

depends entirely if we go with omega bobby. if we do, he'd slaughter the ff solo. if it's the usual bobby, x-men lose. he's their only real chance here, though storm can do some damage for sure. sue is tough to counter for most characters though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Bfr is off though.
Ok, without BFR, Sue isn't killing Bobby but she can just bubble him and he's now stuck. No one on Team X has the power to burst through Sue's FFs.
Originally posted by leonidas
depends entirely if we go with omega bobby. if we do, he'd slaughter the ff solo. if it's the usual bobby, x-men lose. he's their only real chance here, though storm can do some damage for sure. sue is tough to counter for most characters though.
What can even Omega Bobby do to Sue though? I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious.

Going by the fact that iceman us getting more powerful by the post, just to give the x men a shot here, i'm going with the FF fir a clear majority.

Originally posted by riv6672
Going by the fact that iceman us getting more powerful by the post, just to give the x men a shot here, i'm going with the FF fir a clear majority.

That's quite selective logic

Thank you.

Originally posted by zopzop
Ok, without BFR, Sue isn't killing Bobby but she can just bubble him and he's now stuck. No one on Team X has the power to burst through Sue's FFs.

What can even Omega Bobby do to Sue though? I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious.

there is still moisture in the air, and in sue herself, even if her shields are up. crystal beat her by taking advantage of that:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108995/2418609-1455037_untitledp1_super.jpg

and bobby's control of moisture in his omega depictions>>crystal's control over the elements imo.

http://i.imgur.com/MN8BZx9.png

some of his feats when he is going all out with his powers are pretty crazy. his consciousness is spread out....everywhere, and he has no physical body for her to attack, no brain to bubble. he just shifts his consciousness to a different location and reforms his body. he can grow supermassive and shatter a bubble he's placed in, create clones of himself he can control from inside a bubble...he's really, really powerful when his powers are explored to their fullest. we saw some of it during the apocalypse shard arc, where he was easily destroying thor.

Originally posted by riv6672
Thank you.

Oh I must not have said it right then.

Lately thats been a trend for you.

Aaanyhow, FF for a clear majority. Moving on. Feel free to teply to thin air now.

Cool, will do.

Seems strange you give it to FF as 'Iceman was getting more and more powerful', yet Sue was throwing her opponents into space (which we all know is... definitely within her character) and it was ignored.

Yet in other threads, you seem content to call this kind of bloodlusted ooc tactics out.

Selective.

Originally posted by leonidas
there is still moisture in the air, and in sue herself, even if her shields are up. crystal beat her by taking advantage of that:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108995/2418609-1455037_untitledp1_super.jpg

This never happened. It was a dream sequence. That's what I was told at least.

Originally posted by zopzop
Iceman is very overrated. I mean he was owned by an oven because the humidity level wasn't high enough to sustain his powers.
If it's the time I think you're thinking of, that was AoA Bobby.

Originally posted by zopzop
This never happened. It was a dream sequence. That's what I was told at least.

well i'll be damned... that scene is from issue 332 and it turns out it IS a dream. i have the issue, even read it once upon a time, and completely forgot that was a dream sequence that lasted the entire book, lol i used that scan to great effect once in a tournament and had no idea it was a dream.

i stand corrected.

doesn't change my opinion though--i still think bobby, taken at his best, could definitely affect sue even through her shields. and putting him in a bubble, or bubbling his brain wouldn't do anything at all to him.

i did learn something new though. lol

Hmm. I see some of us need careful watching.

Originally posted by StyleTime
If it's the time I think you're thinking of, that was AoA Bobby.
Yup. That's the instance I'm talking about. AoA Bobby seemed more powerful and ruthless than 616 Iceman and yet he was powerless vs an oven in a low humidity environment.

Originally posted by leonidas
i used that scan to great effect once in a tournament and had no idea it was a dream.

i stand corrected.
I did to. Then I had to go back and edit my post once I found out it was a dream. Stupid ass Marvel.


You would think so but her force fields defy logic. For example, they are completely invisible and see through yet they somehow block laser attacks (light even focused light should pass right through and own her).


I'm not arguing that she beats him via physical means. In fact, he should be immune to anything she is capable of dishing out. I'm saying she can just bubble him up and he's effectively out of the fight. He's not breaking through her force fields.

Iceman is one of the worst jobbers considering his powers, this "in his full potential he could..." stuff doesn't hold up to his vast majority portrayal in comics at all.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup. That's the instance I'm talking about. AoA Bobby seemed more powerful and ruthless than 616 Iceman and yet he was powerless vs an oven in a low humidity environment.


I did to. Then I had to go back and edit my post once I found out it was a dream. Stupid ass Marvel.


You would think so but her force fields defy logic. For example, they are completely invisible and see through yet they somehow block laser attacks (light even focused light should pass right through and own her).


I'm not arguing that she beats him via physical means. In fact, he should be immune to anything she is capable of dishing out. I'm saying she can just bubble him up and he's effectively out of the fight. He's not breaking through her force fields.

if he grew to this size:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111125956/4249997-3041432904-31055.jpg

the pressure would be too great and she'd pass out trying to keep him in place. but like i said, he wouldn't need to break out since he could simply create a clone army of himself to take her out:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/149056/3457497-iceman+clones.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125228/3953716-icearmy.jpg

or something similar:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ee2WnSjnFGU/UG9Ut2kMZiI/AAAAAAAAI6Y/yR57KsfJqCo/s640/avxvs6e+iron+fist+vs+iceman.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/3264997-astonishing+x-men+064-019.jpg

since she couldn't contain his consciousness he could do whatever he wanted until she passed out from the strain of defending or trying to hold him--most likely from the combined strain of doing both at the same time. /shrug

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup. That's the instance I'm talking about. AoA Bobby seemed more powerful and ruthless than 616 Iceman and yet he was powerless vs an oven in a low humidity environment.
616 Bobby has replicated most, if not all, the stuff AoA Bobby has. He's just not as willing to "go there" as quickly as his AoA counterpart.

Regardless, AoA Bobby was trashing everyone, and even figured out how to counter Fantomex's misdirection. He let AoA Kurt goad him into the industrial complex though, which was a mistake. Either way, Sue doesn't have access to that here.

In character, I see this being a good fight. Going all out, X-Men win due to Bobby.

Side note, are we 100% sure Storm can't affect the atmosphere inside Sue's bubble?

Originally posted by leonidas
if he grew to this size:

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111125956/4249997-3041432904-31055.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/3264997-astonishing+x-men+064-019.jpg

Wasn't he amped in these two scenes?


Originally posted by StyleTime
Side note, are we 100% sure Storm can't affect the atmosphere inside Sue's bubble?
Pretty sure NO ONE has affected Sue inside her force field......ever. There was ONE instance in a What If that involved Dazzler but that's it. It's alt reality and doesn't count.

Originally posted by zopzop
Wasn't he amped in these two scenes?

you'll hear that the shard amped him, but if you read the arc you'll find that it really didn't. it simply opened his mind to his full potential--which is of course what i've been talking about. even after the shard/seed was removed he maintained that level for a little while bobby gets the short end of the stick by writers regularly. if someone wanted to write him at his best consistently, he'd be an absolute monster. instead we get glimpses and plenty of good feats, but nothing as consistent as it should be. normal bobby has feats of easily controlling the moisture in someone's body. not sure her shield would protect her from something like that or not. 50/50 imo.