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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXBgqa-xQwY

This guy is a racist and bigot for implying that ISIS has anything to do with Islam and its associated holy books! How DARE he!

It's interesting to hear that their holy books actually say for "people of the book" to pay tribute money. That's actually how the extremists groups stay so well financed.

Qur'an 9:73 also indicates why the religion is so hard to reform because they're even commanded to wage jihad against "lukewarm" moderate Muslims. Nice.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
It's interesting to hear that their holy books actually say for "people of the book" to pay tribute money. That's actually how the extremists groups stay so well financed.
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that they are simply killing Jews, Christians, and frankly anyone else who isn't a Sunni Muslim.

And wow, that doctrine of "abrogation" is certainly very enlightening.

This religion is actually inherently made impossible to reform. It simply isn't compatible with modern liberal values. Plain and simple.

So what would you suggest we do?

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that they are simply killing Jews, Christians, and frankly anyone else who isn't a Sunni Muslim.

No, I'm not sure, but I'm willing to bet they read their Qurans. And according to Michael Weiss ISIS lords over millions of people and even though not everyone they lord over has pledged allegiance to the ISIS leader, they are all susceptible to being drafted into the ranks.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
So what would you suggest we do?

I dunno, man. I'm not a military strategist. But I do know that people continuously denying the problem of Islam is extremely counter-productive.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
No, I'm not sure, but I'm willing to bet they read their Qurans. And according to Michael Weiss ISIS lords over millions of people and even though not everyone they lord over has pledged allegiance to the ISIS leader, they are all susceptible to being drafted into the ranks.
There's a great deal of difference between not pledging allegience and being an actual Christian or Jew.

I was trying to draw the disparity between the Islamic tradition of taxing Christians and Jews who live in their caliphate, and the ISIS tradition of wholesale ethnic cleansing.

Not that either policy particularly appeals to me, but I think nuance is an important quality to try to maintain when discussing this kind of thing.

I dare say it would go beyond military strategy, if you are sincere. Would you be on board with a Muslim ban like the one Trump proposed during the elections? (An actual ban on all Muslims immigrating here, not the watered down 7 countries version)

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I dare say it would go beyond military strategy, if you are sincere. Would you be on board with a Muslim ban like the one Trump proposed during the elections? (An actual ban on all Muslims immigrating here, not the watered down 7 countries version)

I think Muslim immigration here is a legitimate concern the more you look at their holy books and see the things committed in the name of them. It didn't seem to do Europe any favors.

So yeah, I think a Muslim ban is a reasonable thing. But obviously real apostates and people genuinely fleeing the horrid persecution of Islamic societies shouldn't be turned away. In fact atheistic apostates should be pulled into our country. But I don't know how far Islamists are willing to go in order to deceive us. I'm sure they could find justification to deceive the evil infidels. Could you make them piss on a Koran and then allow entry into the US? lol I don't know.

But even if they don't actively support violence in the name of their religion, I'm opposed to bringing in anyone who supports homosexuals or critics of Islam being stoned or imprisoned, or worse. I'm opposed to bringing in anyone who would help fill the electorate with any of that sort of theocratic evil. Lord knows we have enough of that already with our Christian population. And ultimately Christians and Muslims fundamentally disagree on a few things... heh.

kind of interesting since one of the core liberal values of our secular western system is "freedom of religion."

there is some obvious irony in the proposition that the best way to protect this secular set of values is to effectively ban a certain religion.

Yeah, but it's becoming a bit of a liability letting anyone believe whatever they want without evidence and not be susceptible to criticism. Sure, people are free to believe what they want in their own heads, but they shouldn't also be free from criticism. And for some reason we've sort of got religion on a social pedestal where you're not allowed to question it.

Before I even watch the video I'm going to point out how the go to excuse from some Muslims over some of the horrible shit found is that it's not actually found in the Quran, but elsewhere. That it's the Quran that matters.

Now to watch and see how peaceful this religion truly is.

And yeah less than 2 minutes in it's already not very peaceful lol.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah, but it's becoming a bit of a liability letting anyone believe whatever they want without evidence and not be susceptible to criticism. Sure, people are free to believe what they want in their own heads, but they shouldn't also be free from criticism. And for some reason we've sort of got religion on a social pedestal where you're not allowed to question it. this almost seems to fundamentally undermine the virtue of "freedom of religion" to me

essentially the implication is that this idea is not workable with one of the largest religions in the world, and thus is a fundamentally flawed idea to start with

Today I learned: if a woman is married you can't rape her....unless she is your captive.

I also learned that if you strive to make "mischief" against Islam the proper punishment is to be crucified or dismembered.

#ReligionOfPeace

^

I wonder if they worded it that vaguely on purpose. Making "mischief" can mean a lot of things. They can use it to excuse murdering someone for even trivial things. Which is, of course, how we get to stuff like "I'm going to murder you for drawing a picture".

Islam's idea of self defense sounds a lot more like retaliation that's taken too far.

If you get harrassed, insulted or attacked by a non-Muslim even in the slightest, Islam says you can do whatever the f-uck you want to do to them such as crucifying or dismembering them which are cruel and merciless punishments. That's not self defense, that's an extremely petty form of retaliation.