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Discuss.

Good Enough to get stomped by Maul and the B-Team

I see no reason to believe Drallig is at or above the level of the B-Team, and especially no reason to believe he can hang with the likes of Maul, so I voted for the fourth option.

Below the B-Team. If Drallig was stronger than any member of that team, then it'd stand to reason that Windu would have brought him along in the place of the weakest member.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I see no reason to believe Drallig is at or above the level of the B-Team, and especially no reason to believe he can hang with the likes of Maul, so I voted for the fourth option.
Well, Dooku seemed to consider Drallig a threat to Grevious.

Originally posted by lazybones
Below the B-Team. If Drallig was stronger than any member of that team, then it'd stand to reason that Windu would have brought him along in the place of the weakest member.
You could definitely argue that tbh. Dooku was angry when he threw out Drallig as a name, we might not want to give that too much weight.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Well, Dooku seemed to consider Drallig a threat to Grevious. That doesn't prove he's at the level of the B-Team, though.

Originally posted by lazybones
Below the B-Team. If Drallig was stronger than any member of that team, then it'd stand to reason that Windu would have brought him along in the place of the weakest member.


I dunno. That logic would put Shaak Ti below the B-Team as well.

Remember the B-Team was already with Mace when Anakin told him Palpatine is Sidious.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That logic puts Shaak Ti below the B-Team.
yes

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I dunno. That logic would put Shaak Ti below the B-Team as well.

Remember the B-Team was already with Mace when Anakin told him Palpatine is Sidious.
Why would ROTS Shaak Ti, not, be below the b team?

Wait, hold up. Why would any version of Ti not be below the B team as a duelist?

Wtf I love Kbro now

Are you forgetting the RotS game? He gave Anakin a pretty good run for the money. I say he's on the level of the B-team

Originally posted by Kurk
Are you forgetting the RotS game? He gave Anakin a pretty good run for the money. I say he's on the level of the B-team The game is clearly overridden by other sources. The RotS Visual Dictionary states that Cin was 'no match' for Anakin, and the RotS Novel describes Anakin 'brisk' hacking through Cin Drallig's shoulder. The small part of the fight that we see in the movie also doesn't seem at all similar from the one seen in the game (movie shows Anakin choking another Jedi whilst casually handling Drallig, whereas the game sees Drallig putting up a good fight 1v1).

I wouldn't give the game's interpretation of events any meaningful amount of weight at all. In all likelihood, Cin was only made challenging in that game to make the encounter enjoyable. I mean, the game literally has one of Cin's pupils giving Anakin a good fight and briefly matching him in a saber lock, lol.

hes better than Shaak Ti but below the B-Team

I'd say he's around the same level of the B-team. Perhaps slightly lower but on the same general range.

Below the likes of Luminara.

Around Fisto.

Cin must've been complete Sh1t to have had Yoda as his master and still be below the likes of Luminara.

Cin's well beyond Luminara, rofl.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Around Fisto. why?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Cin's well beyond Luminara, rofl.

Lmao. This guy played himself.

Originally posted by Kurk
Cin must've been complete Sh1t to have had Yoda as his master and still be below the likes of Luminara.

Yeah, Luminara spanks him, tbh.

Originally posted by ILS
why?
Idk how many "unparalleled" quotes a Jedi needs to be respected, lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Idk how many "unparalleled" quotes a Jedi needs to be respected, lol. Just wasn't sure what the material you would be referring to. Unparalleled in what way? Is it just skill hype?

There's a number of quotes saying he has "unparalleled" or "nearly unparalleled" skill. Plus Dooku saying Grievous might have trouble against him straight-up.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku saying Grievous might have trouble against him straight-up.
That would be the one which you could frame an argument around. Off course you could dismiss that as an angry Dooku just throwing names out. Dooku, having his lost his cool, has also speculated sh!t like darkside yoda would annihilate Palpatine

If that's the best rebuttal to Cin's status than you might as well sign Cin up as above Grievous now.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If that's the best rebuttal to Cin's status than you might as well sign Cin up as above Grievous now.
I wasn't really arguing either for or against it. but
since when did you take subjective quotes seriously?

A better rebuttal though:
If Drallig was better than any members of the B-team, shouldn't Mace have brought him to face Sidious?

Given I take almost all quotes with varying levels of subjectivity, always and never.

But between three quotes saying Cin is among the Jedi's finest, Dooku saying Grievous would be challenged, and him being the in-universe version of Nick Gillard, his standing is pretty obvious.

Because Cin was the Jedi Temple's head of security? His job was to stay at the Jedi Temple in case the Sith launched a counter offensive, which they did. That rebuttal was actually worse than the other one, if that's even possible.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

But between three quotes saying Cin is among the Jedi's finest,

TPM Kenobi was one of the jedi's finest. That proves what exactly?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku saying Grievous would be defeated, and
Uh, he also implied any of the council masters>Grievous even though Grievous has repeatedly clowned council masters.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
him being the in-universe version of Nick Gillard, his standing is pretty obvious.

Right, he's the battlemaster. How does are you getting from that holistic hype that he's specifically on par with Fisto?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because Cin was the Jedi Temple's head of security? His job was to stay at the Jedi Temple in case the Sith launched a counter offensive, which they did.
Ah, I thought that was Ti. Fair enough then.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There's a number of quotes saying he has "unparalleled" or "nearly unparalleled" skill. Plus Dooku saying Grievous might have trouble against him straight-up. It's definitely worth noting that Dooku thought so highly of Drallig.

-

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
TPM Kenobi was one of the jedi's finest. That proves what exactly?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzishIREebw

Are you ****ing serious?

When I wrote that, I mentally went to myself, "maybe I should specify what I mean by that - that I'm referring to the unparalleled quotes." But then I figured no one would be retarded enough to actually think I was specifically referring to some quote saying "Cin Drallig is one of the Jedi's finest." But lo and ****ing behold...



And? Dave Filoni has outright stated the same viewpoint.



I mean, how aren't you?

Cin Drallig has devoted his entire life to studying, perfecting, and teaching lightsaber combat.

How is a high-ranking Jedi Master like Kit Fisto going to somehow be more proficient in a lightsaber than Drallig?

Especially with Drallig even have statements confirming, indeed, he is "unparalleled" in his craft.

It doesn't follow any logical sense.

Prodigies (Kenobi, Anakin, Mace, Yoda) aside, Cin Drallig should be the best swordsman in the Order.

And that viewpoint is echoed by Dooku naming specifically Drallig, not Fisto, when talking to Grievous.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I mean, how aren't you?

Cin Drallig has devoted his entire life to studying, perfecting, and teaching lightsaber combat.

How is a high-ranking Jedi Master like Kit Fisto going to somehow be more proficient in a lightsaber than Drallig? The same way Bane was more proficient than Kas'im?

Except Kas'im was better than Bane (in PoD).

That being said, Bane was extremely prodigious in the Force, and by extension could surpass those with years of training through sheer power (influencing augmentation, reflexes, etc.), regardless.

...Bane wasn't more proficient than Kas'im.

Comparing Bane to Fisto is also kek, yeah.

Originally posted by ILS
The same way Bane was more proficient than Kas'im?

He wasn't.

Actually, both of the battlemaster-type characters in the DBT (Kas'im and Raskta) compared rather favorably towards Bane. Can't imagine how great the battlemaster in the peak of Jedi lightsaber dueling must be. mmm

Bane was beating Kas'im via superior strength in the Force, until he was confronted by a lightsaber style he had no answers for.

My point being, Fisto could well have less technical skill but be more powerful in the Force. I wasn't comparing Fisto to Bane, lmao.

that would be unfair for Bane

Tenebrous level.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Tenebrous level.

So almost on par with Coleman Trebor then?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzishIREebw

Are you ****ing serious?

When I wrote that, I mentally went to myself, "maybe I should specify what I mean by that - that I'm referring to the unparalleled quotes." But then I figured no one would be retarded enough to actually think I was specifically referring to some quote saying "Cin Drallig is one of the Jedi's finest." But lo and ****ing behold...


You're flipping out that I misunderstood that you were referring to hype that puts Drallig on Anoon Bondara's level as a swordsman?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And? Dave Filoni has outright stated the same viewpoint.


Here's what Feloni said:

Feloni, unlike Dooku, was not talking about saber combat. He was talking about how powerful force users can beat him via telekinesis like so:
https://youtu.be/Bx2bP5xv2jo?t=2m11s

Feloni evidently doesn't think this about his abilities as a duelist as he's repeatedly shown Grievous beating council masters in saber duels including the one referenced in the quote you took out of context:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2bP5xv2jo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OrbCHzaNzk
https://youtu.be/ggl7_bnbAPY?t=52s

Sidenote:
It seems we have authoritative confirmation that Dooku has a style advantage against Kenobi and additional confirmation(not that we needed it) that Dooku was more powerful.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66

I mean, how aren't you?

Maybe coz vague hype doesn't necessarily grant you a specific ranking as a combatant?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Especially with Drallig even have statements confirming, indeed, he is in his craft.

As was Fisto and Anoon Bondara. Wait hold up, doesn't "unparalleled" mean no one "parallels" you? There's no way that's hyperbole.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It doesn't follow any logical sense.

Cin Drallig has devoted his entire life to studying, perfecting, and teaching lightsaber combat.

How is a high-ranking Jedi Master like Kit Fisto going to somehow be more proficient in a lightsaber than Drallig?

Prodigies (Kenobi, Anakin, Mace, Yoda) aside, Cin Drallig should be the best swordsman in the Order.

Right, Fisto isn't a prodigy. He's one of the most skilled swordsman in the order's history, but he isn't especially talented. You might to try judging characters based on where they're placed rather than where you think they should be placed.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And that viewpoint is echoed by Dooku naming specifically Drallig, not Fisto, when talking to Grievous.
He also seemed to consider the entire jedi council better than Grievous as duelists despite Grievous repeatedly clowning council masters in lightsaber duels. It's almost as if Dooku was angry and we shouldn't take every thing he said literally.

Not to mention that Dooku would have absolutely no idea how powerful or capable Fisto has become by the end of the clone wars which leaves his subjective opinion fairly unreliable.
You can try and try to frame an argument around holistic intent here, but you're lying to yourself if you think it's going to be a solid one.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
I'd say he's around the same level of the B-team. Perhaps slightly lower but on the same general range.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
since when did you take subjective quotes seriously?

Since they hype a character that got schooled by his favorite character Anakin

LMFAO. I'll respond tonight or tomorrow. If I forget to, shoot me a PM.

Nvm, we handled it on GH.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nvm, we handled it on GH.
we did?

a bit like kas'im, nothing special overall. would lose to b team

I think the quotes make it clear that he's one of the best swordsman in the jedi order. I'd say he's around the same level as the B-Team, maybe slightly inferior

Anakin fought him one handed while focusing on other Jedi, he's nowhere near the top of the heap... its like the old saying goes; those who can, do.. the who can't teach. I think thats a fitting epithet for our boy Cin "C Team" Dralling.

Maybe Anakin is just that good

Originally posted by relentless1
Anakin fought him one handed while focusing on other Jedi, he's nowhere near the top of the heap... its like the old saying goes; those who can, do.. the who can't teach. I think thats a fitting epithet for our boy Cin "C Team" Dralling.
Oooh, he lost to a Yoda level swordsman?

Must be trash then

Lost to Anakin*

no need to repeat what's already been said, syn

Ah, true, a Yoda+ level swordsman then.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
Oooh, he lost to a Yoda level swordsman?

Must be trash then

when youre disposed of that quickly by a combatant; Yoda tier or not then yeah; youre shit.


Anybody singing the praises of the B team after they tried their hand with Sidious?? Didn't think so... I believe they are referred to as the B team specifically because they were dropped so easily no?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
no need to repeat what's already been said, syn

Was a correction.

Originally posted by relentless1
when youre disposed of that quickly by a combatant; Yoda tier or not then yeah; youre shit.


Anybody singing the praises of the B team after they tried their hand with Sidious?? Didn't think so... I believe they are referred to as the B team specifically because they were dropped so easily no?
No one was saying Cin Drallig was top tier. But he is around B-Team level.

Yet you're saying that anyone who gets disposed of that quickly is shit, but Sidious blitzed the B Team even faster than Anakin took out Drallig... hmmm

and they're shit too, Dralling wasn't just taken out easily, Anakin was nonchalant about doing it; sidious blitzed the squad but Anakin rolled right through dralling like he was nothing.. big difference

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Was a correction.

True, I apologize. It would be bad if people got the impression that Drallig would lose so easily to a mere Yoda-level swordsman.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

Prodigies (Kenobi, Anakin, Mace, Yoda) aside, Cin Drallig should be the best swordsman in the Order.


I really don't know how you can call Kenobi a "prodigy". Sure he may be a Council Level Jedi Master, and you could argue that he is "somewhat" talented. That is no reason to call him a "prodigy". That is a term which should be used for the top 0.1% of people in the group. Kenobi to me is too reliant on PIS for his victories and doesn't have any impressive feats to his name.

I feel Kenobi is getting overrated. I browsed the threads from 2012, 2013, 2014, etc. Their placement of Kenobi to me seems more accurate. Don't flip out though, this is my perspective which may be wrong.

Obi-Wan being an 8 makes him a prodigy, since level 7 is the typical cap for expert swordsmen. Gillard literally calls 8 and 9 "cheat" tiers.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Obi-Wan being an 8 makes him a prodigy, since level 7 is the typical cap for expert swordsmen. Gillard literally calls 8 and 9 "cheat" tiers.

Would you agree, prodigies such as exar/ulic/malak/revan/Malgus/Bane
are all 8 tier in dueling? As they shine far above the expert swordsmen of their days.

The number scale that Gillard uses should be reserved for the film characters to avoid diluting it with arbitrariness. But I would say Exar, Ulic, Revan etc. are definitely of Obi-Wan or Maul's class. Malgus and Bane, possibly, but they'd be lower.

Not convinced on Malak, though. He's obviously not in Revan's league.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The number scale that Gillard uses should be reserved for the film characters




More specifically the Prequel characters.

Originally posted by relentless1
and they're shit too, Dralling wasn't just taken out easily, Anakin was nonchalant about doing it; sidious blitzed the squad but Anakin rolled right through dralling like he was nothing.. big difference
Except they're not shit, they're some of the best swordsman in the order which is why Mace brought them with him. Compared to Sidious they're shit, but that's Sidious... And it's really not different at all, being cut down nonchalantly by Anakin-a tier 9 swordsman- is just as bad as 3 Jedi masters being blitzed by Sidious-also a tier 9 swordsman.