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Who wins?

Sentry solos

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Sentry solos

Based on? This isn't Thor that he's facing.

Originally posted by Stoic
Based on? This isn't Thor that he's facing.

1) They can't kill him.

2) Destroying Molecule Man is far beyond anithing both in Team 1 showed.

Death Sentry hasn't demonstrated the ability to do that.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Death Sentry hasn't demonstrated the ability to do that.

Sure he has. He created sand and rock giants.

You don't need matter manipulation. Just TK would do that.

I suppose it could have been. It was never stated either way so who's to say?

I'm just curious why Dsentry wouldn't have the ability when he displayed a powerset in comparison to his normal self several times throughout the story?

When did he show it multiple times? The only time he showed matter manipulation was in Dark Avengers and never again.

Originally posted by tkitna
I suppose it could have been. It was never stated either way so who's to say?

I'm just curious why Dsentry wouldn't have the ability when he displayed a powerset in comparison to his normal self several times throughout the story?

Because Death Sentry is different to any version of Sentry prior, he's voidless and amped. For all intentions and purposes, hes a blank slate.

Originally posted by tkitna

comparison to his normal self several times throughout the story?

Sentry decided, that his dead wife wasn't dead, so she wasn't. Telekinesis is the least of his worries.

Originally posted by abhilegend

When did he show it multiple times? The only time he showed matter manipulation was in Dark Avengers and never again.

The entire characters power set is based on him bending molecules / the reality to his will. In his first series you see him transmuting objects: wood into metal, rocks into energy, thin air into his Sentry suit and so on.

Could you tell us where it is said to be matter manipulation for Death Sentry?

And why did he learn it in Dark Avengers if his entire power set is based on it?

didn't doom defeat MM too? why aren't we wanking him to these absurd levels?

Because that would burst Sentry fanboys fantasy bubble and they only care about how powerful he is or who he beats on battle boards.

Originally posted by ghostman
didn't doom defeat MM too? why aren't we wanking him to these absurd levels?
There are multiple versions of MM that's why. When did this Doom/MM fight take place, I'm willing to bet it was right after his separation from Kosmos when he was at his weakest and could only affect inorganic molecules on a small scale (see the Klaw fight).

Originally posted by zopzop
There are multiple versions of MM that's why. When did this Doom/MM fight take place, I'm willing to bet it was right after his separation from Kosmos when he was at his weakest and could only affect inorganic molecules on a small scale (see the Klaw fight).
It happened in FF 318 just one issue before his famous fight with Beyonder in FF 319. He was saved by his power and yet still hospitalized.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It happened in FF 318 just one issue before his famous fight with Beyonder in FF 319. He was saved by his power and yet still hospitalized.
It was a sucker attack when he was walking home from getting his groceries.

Originally posted by abhilegend
When did he show it multiple times? The only time he showed matter manipulation was in Dark Avengers and never again.

I said he was shown as having the same powers as he had before as there were several examples (flight, strength, eye beams, TK, matter manipulation, etc,,,). There were several examples. Even if you deny the rock creatures as being matter manipulation, how can you deny he has that ability when he has shown examples of his other prior abilities along the way?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Because Death Sentry is different to any version of Sentry prior, he's voidless and amped. For all intentions and purposes, hes a blank slate.

What does that have to do with him retaining his powerset? Did the other 3 horsemen have different powers? Come on.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because that would burst Sentry fanboys fantasy bubble and they only care about how powerful he is or who he beats on battle boards.

Sentry beat Doom too. http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/ne_nau.gif

Originally posted by tkitna
Sentry beat Doom too. http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/ne_nau.gif
He didn't beat Doom, he went far beyond that. He humiliated and crushed him.

Originally posted by zopzop
He didn't beat Doom, he went far beyond that. He humiliated and crushed him.

Shhhh. Don't tell Abhi that.

Originally posted by zopzop
It was a sucker attack when he was walking home from getting his groceries.
And?

Originally posted by tkitna
I said he was shown as having the same powers as he had before as there were several examples (flight, strength, eye beams, TK, matter manipulation, etc,,,). There were several examples. Even if you deny the rock creatures as being matter manipulation, how can you deny he has that ability when he has shown examples of his other prior abilities along the way?

Because he learned it for the first time in Dark Avengers and never used it again.

Originally posted by tkitna
Sentry beat Doom too. http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/ne_nau.gif Originally posted by tkitna
Shhhh. Don't tell Abhi that.
Many characters have beaten Doom, even Scarlet Witch has Wrecked Doom.

What is that supposed to mean anyway?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Many characters have beaten Doom, even Scarlet Witch has Wrecked Doom.

What is that supposed to mean anyway?

Someone mentioned Doom and you went on your anti Sentry tirade for some reason. Just thought that I would point out that Sentry handled both MM and Doom, that's all.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because he learned it for the first time in Dark Avengers and never used it again.

Doesn't mean he cant. I think he used it with the rock giants.

Originally posted by tkitna
Someone mentioned Doom and you went on your anti Sentry tirade for some reason. Just thought that I would point out that Sentry handled both MM and Doom, that's all.
What anti sentry tirade? Are you really this paranoid?

I don't care one bit about Sentry for any tirade. Failed clone is a failed clone. He deserves to be in limbo. Originally posted by tkitna
Doesn't mean he cant. I think he used it with the rock giants.
What you think he irrelevant. You need TK to bring rocks to act like that. If he transmutated them into living giants then it would be matter manipulation.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Could you tell us where it is said to be matter manipulation for Death Sentry?

Could you tell us where it is said, that it's not matter manipulation for Death Seed Sentry?

Originally posted by abhilegend

And why did he learn it in Dark Avengers if his entire power set is based on it?

I would assume, because during his fight against the Molecule Man he got exposed to the actual process of it for the first time and figured it out. In the end he also said he was able to control it.

Originally posted by tkitna
What does that have to do with him retaining his powerset? Did the other 3 horsemen have different powers? Come on.

To be fair: Horsemen at times did have addtional powers. In Uncanny Avengers Daken for example had toxic claws, which messed Wolverine up real good.

It's not crazy to think, that the Sentry might have gotten new powers as a Horseman of Death. IF he was a regular character. The actual argument is that his power set is based on him warping the reality on a molecular level. Pretty much everything we saw him do in Uncanny Avengers had been done by him before.
Creating sand golems in Uncanny Avengers? In Dark Avengers he has created a werewolf and before that he has created plenty of objects like the Watchtower or his clothes.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Because he learned it for the first time in Dark Avengers and never used it again.

You're ignoring context.
How many effective issues of existence did he have post Dark Avengers? In Dark Avengers he used offensive molecule manipulation against Molecule Man, a gun his wife used to attempt to kill herself and then we already got Siege, where he used it to kill Loki. Other than that he used regular manipulation to create a living being and what-not.

And in the end of the day: What in your opinion is Sentrys ability to summon dark, evil tentacles from the sky, which either explode upon impact or send victims into a mental shock? Oh and also can travel through time?
Is it magic? Is Sentry in your opinion a wizard? I just don't understand your line of thinking. Help me out here a little bit.

Originally posted by abhilegend

You need TK to bring rocks to act like that. If he transmutated them into living giants then it would be matter manipulation.

Do you need telekinesis to create a werewolf? Because that's what he did in Dark Avengers.
If he all of a sudden wasn't able to create sand golems with molecule manipulation, then it would be a power downgrade.

Current Thanos solos. Bad match up.

Originally posted by abhilegend

I don't care one bit about Sentry for any tirade. Failed clone is a failed clone. He deserves to be in limbo.


It really does piss you off that he's superior to Superman doesn't it?



And your spouting this as fact due too,,,,,,?

Originally posted by Enzeru

To be fair: Horsemen at times did have addtional powers. In Uncanny Avengers Daken for example had toxic claws, which messed Wolverine up real good.


Did they also retain their original power sets too though?

Question isn't just powersets, though, but also power levels

Originally posted by tkitna
It really does piss you off that he's superior to Superman doesn't it?


Superior in what? Character? Mythos? Supporting cast? Impact on history? Superman would still be here when Sentry is all but forgotten.

Why would a Superman fan would be pissed at a failed clone who is in limbo for years now?

I'm still waiting for the proof that it was matter manipulation.

Originally posted by tkitna

Did they also retain their original power sets too though?

Yeah, of course.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Question isn't just powersets, though, but also power levels

That's not only the question, but also pretty much the most important part about the Horsemen of Death story.

It's safe to say that the Death Seeds were an amp in one form or another. The Horsemen of Death were more potent and some of them displayed new powers. So ultimately they were more powerful. But in the end of the day Daken got beaten by Wolverine, Grim Reaper by Rogue and Banshee by Havok and Wasp, if I recall correctly. So their power levels weren't THAT much higher than their old power levels.

Sentry on the other hand? Nothing suggests that the Death Seed amped him up that much higher than it did every other Horseman of Death. Yet his power level still put him up magnitudes above not only Thor but possibly also above the combined powers of over 100 heroes.

And it's nothing we would have seen the first time, because when the Void appeared, you still needed a city full of heroes to somewhat stalemate him. And in the end it still always took the Sentry himself to stop the Void.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Why would I prove a negative?

Because you're making a flawed, baseless argument in the first place.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Your assumptions are irrelevant. Show us where he was stated to have matter manipulation before Dark Avengers.

Again: Show us, where it was stated that it wasn't molecule manipulation.

I mean, you know what a retcon is. And that retcon of his power set in Dark Avengers explained all the mysterious stuff about the Sentry. Sentry isn't Superman. Superman can't wish his suit into existence. Superman can't teleport. Superman can't resurrect the dead. Superman can't erase peoples memories simply by thinking.
For the longest time that were just random powers for the Sentry, but in Dark Avengers we got an explanation: That guy controls reality itself by manipulating the molecules around him.

Originally posted by abhilegend

He had several issues of appearances. In fact Absorbing Man destroyed him using a cosmic cube. That power would be handy at a time like that.

I've never said, that Sentry is above cosmic cubes. Not many characters are.

There are still levels to molecule manipulation and reality warping. Just because you have those abilities, doesn't mean that you're automatically in the cosmic bracket and can compete with the likes of Eternity, Death and what-not. If we buy into extreme levels of hyperbole Sentry stalemating Galactus is already insanity, when it comes to power levels.

Originally posted by abhilegend

His powers are ill defined. That doesn't means you can give him any power you want.

His powers were ill defined up until the moment, where he went: "Oh. I control molecules. That's how I do what I do. Now I can control it."

And from that point on he was using these abilities at will.

The only problem is, when people point out a moment from older Sentry comics and cry about how he didn't use offensive molecule manipulation at that point. He didn't, because he wasn't actively aware of the full extent of his powers.

He still had a vague idea of what he was capable of doing, since we've seen him heal people and give them untreatable cancer. As well as teleport, erase memories and whatever. That doesn't just come from having a random power set.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What anti sentry tirade? Are you really this paranoid?

I don't care one bit about Sentry for any tirade. Failed clone is a failed clone. He deserves to be in limbo.
What you think he irrelevant. You need TK to bring rocks to act like that. If he transmutated them into living giants then it would be matter manipulation. Your opinion on the Sentry is irrelevant. He's far more powerful than Superman is and would smite him objectively. As to the thread Thanos wins.

The DS boost had to be considerable.

Banshee is a baseline human and he took -everything- Havok had.

Remender had Havok clearly effect Thor earlier in the arc.

Originally posted by krisblaze

The DS boost had to be considerable.
Banshee is a baseline human and he took -everything- Havok had.
Remender had Havok clearly effect Thor earlier in the arc.

Baseline Banshee is one thing, but Death Seed Banshee had an armor on, which caushed the heroes quite some trouble.
Havok said that he couldn't get through the armor from the outside, which is why Wasp destroyed it from the inside. Then Havok used his powers on Banshee and knocked him out with just one shot. Granted, it took everything out of Havok, but Banshee still had the majority of his armor on.

So I still disagree, that the Horsemen amps were as considerable as some people believe them to be.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Because you're making a flawed, baseless argument in the first place.


You clearly have no idea how a debate works. You don't post a baseless claim and ask to prove it wrong.

If you are so sure that it was matter manipulation, it must be mentioned somewhere, right?
You'd be surprised.

But no, it doesn't explains everything in his history. It made his already messy origin even messier.

Which he never did before or after.



Well at least you're not as hopeless as realitywarper.

Appreciate that.



Maybe, maybe not. But this isn't a discussion about the power levels.

Could you show us where it was stated that everywhere else it was matter manipulation?



I don't. I'm only asking for the newer comics after Dark Avengers.

Tell that to characters like Exodus who pull a power like that every other week.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Baseline Banshee is one thing, but Death Seed Banshee had an armor on, which caushed the heroes quite some trouble.
Havok said that he couldn't get through the armor from the outside, which is why Wasp destroyed it from the inside. Then Havok used his powers on Banshee and knocked him out with just one shot. Granted, it took everything out of Havok, but Banshee still had the majority of his armor on.

So I still disagree, that the Horsemen amps were as considerable as some people believe them to be.
Baseline Sentry was never that physically strong. Even Jenkins said Hulk was stronger than Sentry.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superior in what? Character? Mythos? Supporting cast? Impact on history?

Superior in all aspects.



And yet here you are. You tell us.



I've already stated that it was never said. Your the one thats hell bent on it being TK for some reason.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You clearly have no idea how a debate works. You don't post a baseless claim and ask to prove it wrong.

He's not the one that just casually ignores on panel proof whenever he feels like it though. For you to tell somebody how a debate works is asinine.



It was never stated what method he used, so why are you so convinced it was TK? Its as if your upset that he even possesses matter manipulation and your trying everything in your power to disprove he has.

Originally posted by tkitna
He's not the one that just casually ignores on panel proof whenever he feels like it though. For you to tell somebody how a debate works is asinine.



It was never stated what method he used, so why are you so convinced it was TK? Its as if your upset that he even possesses matter manipulation and your trying everything in your power to disprove he has.

Superman fans have Sentry envy. Sentry would smite him.

Originally posted by quanchi112


Superman fans have Sentry envy. Sentry would smite him.

And thats really all it boils down to.

Originally posted by tkitna
And thats really all it boils down to.

Clearly

Originally posted by tkitna
Superior in all aspects.


Only in your dreams.

And here you're as well, bitching and moaning as always.

Here is a hint: Nobody cares.

So I take you didn't say it was matter manipulation on the first page?

Originally posted by tkitna
He's not the one that just casually ignores on panel proof whenever he feels like it though. For you to tell somebody how a debate works is asinine.


Starting to white knighting as well, huh?

You've been on this site for what, thirteen years now? What have you actually done in terms of debate?


Talk to me about a debate when you actually learn what it is.

Why do you think that that anyone will be upset over something like this?

Prove it was matter manipulation as you claimed or shut up with your whining.

Originally posted by tkitna
And thats really all it boils down to.


Such self importance. Is this the only way to cope with being a Sentry fan? That everyone else is jealous of his power?

Are you sure you are not in kindergarten?

Abhi having a hate boner against Sentry, denying everything and confusing molecule manipulation (reality warping) for matter manipulation.

There is nothing new here...

Originally posted by quanchi112


Superman fans have Sentry envy. Sentry would smite him.

Clearly...

Originally posted by abhilegend


So I take you didn't say it was matter manipulation on the first page?

I said I felt it was. You were the one jumping on the TK bandwagon the first chance you had.

Originally posted by abhilegend


You've been on this site for what, thirteen years now? What have you actually done in terms of debate

Proved that your incapable of doing so

Apart from Superman being irrelevant in this thread. A serious question, how are DS Sentry and Genis putting Thanos down who went up against the PF?

Originally posted by tkitna
Proved that your incapable of doing so

Originally posted by tkitna
Proved that your incapable of doing so

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Apart from Superman being irrelevant in this thread. A serious question, how are DS Sentry and Genis putting Thanos down who went up against the PF?

Good question. Plus, Thane DOES have the PF here.

Originally posted by tkitna
I said I felt it was. You were the one jumping on the TK bandwagon the first chance you had.
Concession accepted. Originally posted by tkitna
Proved that your incapable of doing so


In thirteen years, you only did that? Which never even occurred?

But you aspire very high. Keep dreaming and one day you may be able to post a decent debate.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Concession accepted.


Only you accept concessions that were never given.



Sure it occurred. I provided on panel proof of something and you refused to accept if because it proved you wrong. Your debating skills are a joke as are you.

Originally posted by tkitna
Only you accept concessions that were never given.



Sure it occurred. I provided on panel proof of something and you refused to accept if because it proved you wrong. Your debating skills are a joke as are you. Ouch.

So who wins between Thanos and Sentry? As they are the two with the most feats.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So who wins between Thanos and Sentry? As they are the two with the most feats.

Sentry.

Tell me when anyone give the same beating to Molecule Man than he did and I'm not speaking about the times he struggles with his powers (which he didn't during Dark Avengers).

Easily?

Does he beat Thanos down? The PF?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Easily?

Does he beat Thanos down? The PF?

Does Thanos or the PF have feats close to Molecule Man at full power ?

genis solos.

he killed multi-eternity and survived a big bang unscathed. thanos/thane couldnt even scratch him.

Originally posted by tkitna
Only you accept concessions that were never given.


You already gave it when you said it wasn't matter manipulation.

Like Sentry being atimized in the sun when the comic and the writer said he was resurrected by death seed?

That one, eh? But sure, keep dreaming of debating buddy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So who wins between Thanos and Sentry? Given the feats both have displayed, it's hard to say.

I suppose DSentry might be able to use molecule manip., but it certainly isn't a go-to tactic for him, imo... Otherwise he certainly would have used it to free himself from the space worm, instead of being incapacitated by it for several issues.

srug

Originally posted by Mendax
genis solos.

he killed multi-eternity and survived a big bang unscathed. thanos/thane couldnt even scratch him. Context.

Genis AND Entropy killed Eternity -- it was a shared feat. But most importantly: Genis himself stated that the only reason they succeeded is because Eternity WANTED to die:
https://i.imgur.com/QKvuxgk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CKtqvci.jpg
In simpler terms: Eternity basically LET them kill him.


As for the big bang scene, I've come to believe it was more of a symbolical 'meta-moment' than anything. I mean, right after Entropy metamorphosed into Eternity, an irritated Genis stated that the entire scene was FILLED with over-the-top symbolism and such:
https://i.imgur.com/2o9yaqo.jpg


Either way, it's hard for me to believe that Genis tanked a big bang outright, considering that in the very next issue a hammer-throw from King Thor shredded through his shields effortlessly:
https://i.imgur.com/dGB09Vr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wXt7g5M.jpg
So unless Mjolnir packs more of a wallop than a f*cking big bang... ermm

I think you should pump that effort into judging sneer

Originally posted by abhilegend
You already gave it when you said it wasn't matter manipulation.

And there you go again. Where did I say it wasnt matter manipulation? I said I think it is. No matter you get lumped in with people like H1 and a few others.



You mean when he went to the sun to kill himself and that didnt even work? The same instance in which his Void persona was saying Bob didnt want it enough?

-To the people reading this, here was a previous argument Abhi and I had-

I argued that the Sentry couldnt die or be killed unless he willingly wants it to happen. I posted a scan in which Sentry himself told a group of characters and i quote him 'I can not die'. Why would anybody doubt that since you know, he's come back and reappeared from certain death experiences numerous times before on panel. In typical Abhi fashion, he dismisses it because he refuses to belive anything the character says.

I also provided a scan during the Siege storyline in which Bob took enough control over the Void to have him beg Thor or anybody to kill him as Bob was ready to die and rid the world of the Void. He actually screams 'Kill Me' right on panel. Again, ignored although its right there on the page.

I even went as far a providing a scan after Siege in which Sentry explained how he battled the Void constantly for so long that the Void finally gave up so that Bob could stay dead. Yep, you guessed it, Abhi ignored that too.

Yeah, and he calls me a dreamer. Hell, if everybody debated like Abhi, nobody would ever even need to read the books.

at RW still trying to say Sentry beat a full powered Molecule man.

As for this thread, going with team 2.

Originally posted by tkitna
And there you go again. Where did I say it wasnt matter manipulation? I said I think it is. No matter you get lumped in with people like H1 and a few others.



You mean when he went to the sun to kill himself and that didnt even work? The same instance in which his Void persona was saying Bob didnt want it enough?

-To the people reading this, here was a previous argument Abhi and I had-

I argued that the Sentry couldnt die or be killed unless he willingly wants it to happen. I posted a scan in which Sentry himself told a group of characters and i quote him 'I can not die'. Why would anybody doubt that since you know, he's come back and reappeared from certain death experiences numerous times before on panel. In typical Abhi fashion, he dismisses it because he refuses to belive anything the character says.

I also provided a scan during the Siege storyline in which Bob took enough control over the Void to have him beg Thor or anybody to kill him as Bob was ready to die and rid the world of the Void. He actually screams 'Kill Me' right on panel. Again, ignored although its right there on the page.

I even went as far a providing a scan after Siege in which Sentry explained how he battled the Void constantly for so long that the Void finally gave up so that Bob could stay dead. Yep, you guessed it, Abhi ignored that too.

Yeah, and he calls me a dreamer. Hell, if everybody debated like Abhi, nobody would ever even need to read the books. Ownage of Abhi.

Looks like team 2 wins handily then.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Looks like team 2 wins handily then.
How? Sentry can be killed by the likes of Thor, koed by Blue Marvel, a Fyling ship or a Giant Worm... Meanwhile Thanos smiles while tanking the freaking PF face on... This is no contest. DS Sentry may be Trans but Thanos is right now higher. PF Thane is Abstract. And contrary to a human being like MM, who can be koed by Captain America if taken by surprise btw, who was weakened the PF is not going to be treated so lightly, it will be physical and there Sentry stands not a prayer of a chance, this is not Hulk...

Originally posted by Insane Titan
at RW still trying to say Sentry beat a full powered Molecule man.

It happened so what you want to believe doesn't matter.

Your comments are worthless.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
It happened so what you want to believe doesn't matter.

Your comments are worthless. nobody believes it except you.

Trolls like you are laughable.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
nobody believes it except you.

I don't believe anything.

I stay with the proofs that I have and Molecule Man was at full power in that instance.




The only laughable thing here is your poor attempt at baiting me.

Try again.

Am sure Quan would defend Thanos.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Am sure Quan would defend Thanos.

He is to busy giving RW a blowjob.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
He is to busy giving RW a blowjob.

Originally posted by RealityWarper


Hey, at least you are not the one giving the head. sneer

You know that i don't have a prob with you. I understand your opinion just disagree to 100% or almost.
But I simply can't stand quan.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Hey, at least you are not the one giving the head. sneer

You know that i don't have a prob with you. I understand your opinion just disagree to 100% or almost.
But I simply can't stand quan.

Quan is nice; a bit aggressive sometimes but nice.

I know that you disagree with me but for bad reasons ^^

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Am sure Quan would defend Thanos. I already said Thanos wins earlier in the thread. Scale back. Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
He is to busy giving RW a blowjob. You are so weak when it comes to your emotions.

Originally posted by tkitna
And there you go again. Where did I say it wasnt matter manipulation? I said I think it is. No matter you get lumped in with people like H1 and a few others.


You sure can't make up your mind. Was it matter manipulation? If yes, show us where it was stated to be so.

No, in Uncanny Avengers before Sentry was "resurrected".

In case of Death Sentry because his words were proven false in the same story.

Which you failed to acknowledge.

Where did I even ignored it?

And Void took over. You argued yourself in a corner with "both sentry and void should be agreed to die".

I'm still asking how did Sentry survive when Void didn't want to die in the sun?

Was Void ready to die in Siege so Thor killed him?

Because it was a blatant lie.

Sentry was dead, he was resurrected by Apocalypse twins on panel and the writer said that too.

You've failed to acknowledge that too.

And if anyone "debated" like you, three will be no need for books at all. You make your own canon and your own rules despite what comics say.

Abhi's debating is becoming worse and worse.

Caveman Debating...

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Paraphrasing your own insults doesn't makes you right.

You can't show a single scan of MM being weakened or depowered because it never happened in the story.

I'm still waiting for a scan of MM saying that there is anything he can't do in Dark Avengers. A thing that you can't provide because it doesn't exist.

That's clearly a bait.

Still, Thanos punking his son as a weak host of the PF doesn't make him close to be a threat for Sentry.

Sentry solos. keep
Telling yourself this crap, nobody is buying it.

DS is the weakest here, he gets roflstomped by sand worms.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
keep
Telling yourself this crap, nobody is buying it.

People opinion doesn't matter.

You just can bring a poor Argumentum Ad Populum after years on this forum.

Please continue ridiculing yourself...



He is the most powerful being here by far.



The Sandworn did nothing but BFR him.

Try harder with your bait comments.

Thanos is non-factor.

Isn't matter manipulation the basis of sentry's power set?

How does he beat Thanos?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How does he beat Thanos?

He can by:

*Physical strength. He can hit Thanos until he dies.
*TP.
*Reality Manipulation.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Quan is nice; a bit aggressive sometimes but nice.

I know that you disagree with me but for bad reasons ^^

My reasons are bad?

Well, I go by facts and logic.

Sentry manipulated the molecules of a human body he never showed something along those lines against Thor, Hercules or Hulk. MM was also weakened by his mental state, the comic shows that he wanted to be found and to be stopped. It's blatantly written on panel, no room to interprete something else imho.
When an even more powerful DS Sentry faced Thor he didn't went MM on him, why not? Obviously he couldn't. A simple Sand Worm defeated him. If he would be truly as powerful as MM in the body of someone who is near Hulks equal, he would have been out there instantly, desintergrating Thor and the Worm with a though, also while helping Rouge to stopp the Celestial, why not simply go MM on him?

I get that you like Sentry a lot and that this one single feat seems like a pretty neat way to continue this ridiculous stance of yours for all eternity but all his other showings point to a different conclusion, if unbiased, that Sentry is powerful but simply not as powerful as you wish him to be.

But we danced this dance before. I accept your opinion, even if I think it's 100% wrong. But that's how you feel about my opinion, so why do we even try?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
My reasons are bad?

Yes, sorry to say it.



It's normal.

He discovered that he has powers of Molecule/Reality Manipulation in Dark Avengers. He was doing it subconciously before that since his first appearance. Enzeru already explained that.





No. He wasn't

I'm explaining you that everytime...

Molecule Man powers are determined by his beliefs into them:

If Molecule Man believes that he can do something, then he can.

If Molecule Man believes that he cannot do something, the he cannot.

Plain and Simple.

I asked you to prove your sayings by showing on-panel Molecule Man saying that he cannot do something and you was incapable to provide it because that never happened in Dark Avengers.



Wrong.

The comics shows Molecule Man's CREATIONS saying that he want to be found and stopped.

The point is to show Molecule Man self-doubts and inner fears which are parts of his characters because Owen isn't an evil genius. He is a normal, not intelligent dude with no abilities to plan or foresee his own actions...

Owen literally denies on-panel wanting to be found and stopped but you are obviously ignoring that part because it doesn't fit your narrative...

He said that he was protecting his home.

https://s1.postimg.org/3lpzxma9cf/MMprotectinghishome_DA-011-pg-23.jpg




He never meant to kill Thor and Wasp in the first place. He was speaking with him while punishing him.



No.

Rick Remender removed Sentry from the story because he is too powerful.

The Sand Worm didn't kill him neither. Wolverine was captured by one and was fine.



Sentry didn't try to slain the Celestial at all, even with physical force.

Your question is missing some important points in the story:

*The Death Seed gives his bearer the personnality of one Horseman of Death whom works for Apocalypse whom works for the Celestials. So the Celestials are literally Sentry's true patrons.

*Sentry said that after Thor slayed Exitar, the wrath of the Celestials will be mighty.

*Sentry had no interest in slaying Exitar neither.





You tell me that but you refuse that have an overview of the character.

It's not like Sentry was hyped from Day one to be "The Most Powerful Man in Existence" which was Owen previous title.

Bendis prepared the field so no one be surprised if Sentry beat someone as powerful as Molecule Man.

He literally anticipated the need to make that story when he made Owen put in jail...



I try because I disagree with what you are saying.

I can just one opinion overflow the battle forum about Sentry when it doesn't fit what happens on panel.

Your interpretation of contradictiing on panel facts (MM telling us blatantly with his alt persona that he wants to fail, and this "no no no, I didn't mean to (or I just tried)" is nothing new, it hardens the words of the beyoner personality) and you wanting me to prove a negative is all that is left it seems.

"Rick Remender removed Sentry from the story because he is too powerful."

So powerful that all it took was a Giant Worm...

Honestly, I can understand the reasoning of almost any opinion, even Carvers from time to time, and where it comes from. Yours is just a single feat against a depowered being and all you have left for all his other showings, all his defeats, are excuses (they wanted to put him out of the story, he wanted to die, he was not aware how powerful he is that's why BM koed him blablabla.)

As it stands, Sentry has one good feat against a weakened opponent in a human body and a shit of lows against far far lesser beings in superhuman bodies.

His average is hence HH to low Trans at best. In the dreams of his fans it might be higher. If you ask the majority of the Sentry fans they will agree I guess, there is your example of Argumentum Ad Populum. And for christs sake stop using this pseudo intellectual BS, it doesn't make your arguments appear smarter or more valid.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Your interpretation of contradictiing on panel facts (MM telling us blatantly with his alt persona that he wants to fail, and this "no no no, I didn't mean to (or I just tried)" is nothing new, it hardens the words of the beyoner personality) and you wanting me to prove a negative is all that is left it seems.

"Rick Remender removed Sentry from the story because he is too powerful."

So powerful that all it took was a Giant Worm...

Honestly, I can understand the reasoning of almost any opinion, even Carvers from time to time, and where it comes from. Yours is just a single feat against a depowered being and all you have left for all his other showings, all his defeats, are excuses (they wanted to put him out of the story, he wanted to die, he was not aware how powerful he is that's why BM koed him blablabla.)

As it stands, Sentry has one good feat against a weakened opponent in a human body and a shit of lows against far far lesser beings in superhuman bodies.

His average is hence HH to low Trans at best. In the dreams of his fans it might be higher. If you ask the majority of the Sentry fans they will agree I guess, there is your example of Argumentum Ad Populum. And for christs sake stop using this pseudo intellectual BS, it doesn't make your arguments appear smarter or more valid. owned

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Your interpretation of contradictiing on panel facts (MM telling us blatantly with his alt persona that he wants to fail, and this "no no no, I didn't mean to (or I just tried)" is nothing new, it hardens the words of the beyoner personality) and you wanting me to prove a negative is all that is left it seems.

Molecule Man doesn't have alternate personaes.

Those beings he created where the manifestations of his delusions and the expression of his paranoia.

You are even confusing symptoms which doesn't exist with a context you are creating to suits your own narrative.

Molecule Man is defending his territory in Dinosaur, Colorado.

He doens't want to be found or lose.

The feats are here, the context is here: He kills /subdue/dominate everyone whom wants to interfere in his self-conservative process.

"Rick Remender removed Sentry from the story because he is too powerful."



What did the giant worm besides swallowing him and carrying him away ?

Nothing.

Remenber needed to carry Sentry away to allow Thor and Wasp to fulfill their mission which failed in the end.




That's not true actually.

A) MM was at full power.

B) I've told you that Sentry power was hyped for years in the purpose of showing that fight against Molecule Man.

Tony Stark already said that Sentry was capable to start a new House of M event on a simple whim during Civil War but you continue to ignore that because it doesn't fit your narrative.

You are making-up a reasoning, I'm coming with facts and they are even backed-up by Bendis in the interviews about his own work.



I am exposing the context.

This little paragraph shows that you chose willingly to ignore the context and that's not a valuable argument.



A full powered Molecule Man.

I'm still waiting for you too to prove that Molecule Man was somehow weakened/depowered by showing a scan of Molecule Man saying that he cannot do something in Dark Avengers.

That should be easy because you are still adamant on your positions since we talked about it, right.

Please show me that scan.




What ???



You are making a gross oversimplification.

All of Molecule Man showings have context but that's easier for you to put everything in the same bag, right ?




Argumentum Ex Culo.




Yes, that's one more example of Argumentum Ad Populum.



Now that's just a meaningless opinion on my arguments. "Pseudo-intellectual BS".

My arguments are all in context and backed-up with the stories, and even more by the writers of the said stories.

I'm still waiting for you to show that scan of Molecule Man saying that he cannot manipulate X type of molecules or that he cannot do something or that he is somehow weakened or depowered. I will be waiting for long because, like your arguments, this scan doesn't exist.

Sincerely yours,

RealityWarper.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
owned

Another worthless post...

Do you want a hug or something ?

Here I repost:

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2017/44/4/1509631346-godquarryrepositoryofthepowerofalloldgods-thanos-2016-009-014.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend

If you are so sure that it was matter manipulation, it must be mentioned somewhere, right?
But no, it doesn't explains everything in his history. It made his already messy origin even messier.



Could you show us where it was stated that everywhere else it was matter manipulation?

http://i.imgur.com/T15c2UM.jpg

"I control the molecules of my world. That's how I do what I do. I never knew that. How could I? No one could. Not Reed Richards. Not Tony Stark."

^ Sentry himself tells you, that whatever he does comes from him controlling molecules. Him teleporting? Molecule manipulation. Him resurrecting the dead? Molecule manipulation. That comic retconned his beforehand vague and unexplained power set.
So your entire issue with Sentrys power set is explained to you by the character himself.

It was a powerset retcon.

A good example for you would be Superman in the DC Cinematic Universe. When we saw him and Zod fly, you could see dust hovering around them. So the movies indicated mental powers / telekinesis. The most powerful telekinesis users in comics can even move molecules and with such an ability it would be easy for Man of Steel Superman to fly, have super strength, super durability and even shoot laser beams out of his eyes (by accelerating the molecules to heaten them up) or use freeze breath (by slowing molecules down).
So that way Man of Steel Superman doesn't have just random ass powers. It's actually explained.

For the Sentry it's explained as well now: molecule manipulation.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
How? Sentry can be killed by the likes of Thor, koed by Blue Marvel, a Fyling ship or a Giant Worm... Meanwhile Thanos smiles while tanking the freaking PF face on... This is no contest. DS Sentry may be Trans but Thanos is right now higher. PF Thane is Abstract. And contrary to a human being like MM, who can be koed by Captain America if taken by surprise btw, who was weakened the PF is not going to be treated so lightly, it will be physical and there Sentry stands not a prayer of a chance, this is not Hulk...

"Hey guys, it's me: Prof. T.C. McAbe! Let's battle board a little bit! My character wins, because here are all the low showings for your character and here is one, single, over the top showing for my character. Obviously my character is much more powerful than yours, because your character got knocked out by a deer!"

Come on now.

Thanos has been bloodied up by Namor, someone who didn't land a single punch on the Sentry during the Dark Avengers + X-Men crossover.
Thanos been bloodied up by the Avengers, characters the Sentry can easily snap in half.
Thanos needed tech to destroy the Earth, something the Sentry can do while holding back.

You don't argue fights by focusing on the low showings of one character and the highest showings of the other character. That's called being biased. And being biased ruins the fun immediately.

Also Reed Richards put Sentry and the Phoenix Force on equal footings, when it comes to the danger, when they attack. Sentry would punch Thanos into oblivion.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

Well, I go by facts and logic.

Where is that said logic?

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

Sentry manipulated the molecules of a human body

No. Sentry manipulated the molecules of THE Molecule Man, who was actively trying to fight back, but couldn't. Human durability has nothing to do with it, especially if a molecule manipulator can easily increase their own durability.

Look at Silver Surfer facing Molecule Man. A weaker Molecule Man version even. Silver Surfer also has the ability to manipulate molecules, but he got utterly stomped by Molecule Man. Again, a weaker version.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

the comic shows that he wanted to be found and to be stopped. It's blatantly written on panel, no room to interprete something else imho.

No. You're pulling a Galan007 and Mr. Master here and rephrasing 1/4 of the stuff, that has been said in the comics, while ignoring the other 3/4. Why? Because it suits your argument.

Yeah, one of Molecule Mans illusions said, that Molecule Man wanted to be found and lose. But at the same time other illusions said plenty of other stuff, which didn't matter in the end.
Yet for some reason you choose to go with the one thing, that suits your argument, even though it holds no more value than the other imaginary stuff does. Why? Because it suits your argument.


Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

When an even more powerful DS Sentry faced Thor he didn't went MM on him, why not? Obviously he couldn't.
Did you even read the comic? Sentry made it pretty clear, that he didn't want to kill Thor. He was holding back the entire time. The moment he had enough, he KOed Thor with one punch and attempted to ... guess what? ... GO MM on him. We saw his tendrils of darkness approaching Thor, but then he got removed from the battlefield.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

A simple Sand Worm defeated him. If he would be truly as powerful as MM in the body of someone who is near Hulks equal, he would have been out there instantly, desintergrating Thor and the Worm with a though

No. A simple Sand Worm served as a plot device and removed him from the battlefield. Remender had written himself into a corner with the Sentry, just like writers of other powerful characters had done so before.
And unfortunately for the Sentry in the comics and in this debate with you, Remender is not the best person, when it comes to avoiding easy-plot-device-way-outs.

Sentry looked at the Sand Worm and said "Oh". And then he got removed from the fight.
Yet in Remenders own comics with Sentry, we've seen Sentry travel hundreds of kilometers before Wolverine could say a single word. We've seen Sentry travel many, many miles, before Punisher could finish thinking a single word. Yet now all of a sudden he can't fly away from a Sand Worm attacking him? Give me a break.

Also the character can teleport.
But I think you know all of that. You either stick with your opinion just to troll RealityWarper, or because you're ignorant.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe

also while helping Rouge to stopp the Celestial, why not simply go MM on him?

Uhm... Because Sentry is not as stupid as you think he is and knows, that by killing a Celestial he would doom the entire planet? You know, because the wrath of the Celestials would be mighty at that point. That's also what the character himself told you, yet you choose to ignore it.

And that is if the Sentry even has the needed power to kill someone like Exitar on a molecular level? If not, then his only other option was to use his strength and stop his descent, while the Avengers figure out something else.

*sigh* Quan Prime would never have allowed you to live lol

Poor IT, his comments are just insane...

It's like talking to a brick wall that will answer "NO" no matter how many proofs are posted...

You are on ignore.

When the story tells that Thanos claimed the power of the God Carry to have a chance to beat a Phoenix-powered Thane that's what happened...

Nobody cares about your meaningless opinion IT. Go troll somewhere else. I will not even bother reading your next useless comments.

Thanos can't even fight a weakened version of the Beyonder without shitting his pants, knowing that if his vessel is destroyed and the true Beyonder released, he will kill Thanos effortlessly...

I'm a Sentry fan as everybody knows, but my opinion of the character is this-

I agree that Own was depowered. Compared to the Owen that was snapping his fingers and repairing universes while having a casual conversation with the Beyonder,,,,,,,way depowered. I don't think theres any question about that and never was on the side that it was a fully powered MM. The feat was still pretty beastly though from Sentry. So beastly that most comic characters have no business even getting in the ring with him.

The sand worm is what it is. The creature definitely detained Dsentry in the story. Anti Sentry fans love to bring it up as a horrible showing for him and they have the right to do so I suppose, but if the creature could restrain Dsentry, how bad would other characters fare against it?

I cant get behind the lowballing of Thor killing Sentry though. Bob did in fact allow that to happen.

Just 2 cents from a Sentry fan.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Poor IT, his comments are just insane...

It's like talking to a brick wall that will answer "NO" no matter how many proofs are posted...

You are on ignore.

When the story tells that Thanos claimed the power of the God Carry to have a chance to beat a Phoenix-powered Thane that's what happened...

Nobody cares about your meaningless opinion IT. Go troll somewhere else. I will not even bother reading your next useless comments. running away like a little dog when exposed as a lying troll , standard RW b*tch tactics.

Thanos vs Thing

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111123678/3710678-3357717315-Warlo.jpg



Sentry vs Thing


https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/108224/2498240-sentry_thing_1.jpg


Thanos is a weakling whom gets ragdolled by the Thing.

Sentry completely no-sell the same attack.

Sentry stomps.

Yeah but isn't Thanos, as per your scans, packing more power than he used to?

So all these low showings are no longer valid...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah but isn't Thanos, as per your scans, packing more power than he used to?

So all these low showings are no longer valid...

That's not a low showing and yes Thanos is amped by the power of all the Old Gods.

Still, his fight against the Phoenix-powered Thane is inferior to the fight between Sentry and Photon.

Sentry crushes entire worlds while holding back and Thanus has to go all out in a clash with Thane to break a single world. Pathetic. XD

I was referring to all the showings like against the NYPD, Squirrel Girl etc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I was referring to all the showings like against the NYPD, Squirrel Girl etc.

Apparently using the worm is legit so I see no problem using those feats out of context too

Not the same though.

One happened to a weaker version of Thanos.

The other actually happened to the Sentry here.

If they used Sentry's showings when he got depowered,then yeah I can see your point.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not the same though.

One happened to a weaker version of Thanos.

The other actually happened to the Sentry here.

Which did nothing besides carrying him away for the sake of the plot.

Which doesn't matter because there is no worm in that thread.



They already use fights with Sentry holding back and not actively trying to fight his opponents back. Nice joke.

RW is having a troll meltdown

Well this went to shit.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Nah, the writer himself said what the character thinks isn't quite true.

No, the writer said something else. More on that in a second.

Originally posted by abhilegend

He also said he can't bring a city back as it was. But you deny it as always.

I'm not denying anything. I've always argued, that what the Sentry has in finesse, when it comes to molecule manipulation... he has tenfold in raw power. Who is going to win in a fight between a kid, who knows karate and an adult, who just knows how to brawl? The kid may have the skills, but the adult still has the strength advantage.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Except it isn't telekinesis. It's called an Easter egg. He was never stated to have TK in the movies.

I wonder if there is a fallacy for what you're doing now and in general.
Why does everything have to be stated for you? The telekinesis stuff in Man of Steel has been heavily hinted at. It was a silent explanation for the origin of Supermans powers. Even in regular DC comics mental powers have been teased at left and right.


Originally posted by abhilegend

Not really. The writer himself said it isn't true.

Not really. The writer said that what the Sentry thought may have been true or maybe not. He left us in the unknown about the origin of Sentrys powers. But he didn't straight up deny, that Sentry didn't have those powers.

And then there was yet another interview with the writer, where he stated, that Sentry had the same powers like the Molecule Man and that he was rewriting reality on a molecular level:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6AzWzxcV74

Sentrys powers as for now are based on molecule manipulation. You may not like it, but that's the characters official power set.

What does any of that have to do with who wins this match? Will someone just give a winner and stop trying to dodge the question?

Originally posted by Stoic
What does any of that have to do with who wins this match? Will someone just give a winner and stop trying to dodge the question?

Sentry solos

Team 1 can't take him down.

Originally posted by Enzeru
No, the writer said something else. More on that in a second.


I'm pretty sure that's not what it means what you want to say.

Your argument is based on a single comic retconning entire history of Sentry when the writer himself denies it.

Yes, only in Byrne origin and even there it was never explicitly stated.

Ergo, an Easter egg.

But I find it funny that you are trying to tell me something about Superman.

Hence why I said it was vague.

That only means that Bendis had no idea how he wanted Sentry's powers worked himself. Because that interview is from February 2010 while the CBR interview is from May 2010.



No, it isn't.

Team 1 wins.
Sentry is the weakest here, whilst going all out not holding back against WWH struggled to destroy a few streets.

*sigh*

Molecule Manipulation and Reality Manipulation are two different names for the same thing, the manipulation of all matter and all energy which is the basics of Sentry's power-set.

Bendis didn't say that Sentry doesn't possess this power in the CBR interview from May 2010...

He said that the Void is crazy and deceitful and that maybe what he thought about his power-set wasn't true or maybe it was.

We still know that's true, Sentry can manipulate the reality at will.

We saw him destroy the Molecule Man this way and Tony Stark said in the "Civil War Files" that Sentry could create a new House of M event on a whim.


Sentry disintegrate the Team 1 on a whim.

It's a curbstomp of epic proportions.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Team 1 wins.
Sentry is the weakest here, whilst going all out not holding back against WWH struggled to destroy a few streets.

Yet while he was half ass fighting Genis, they were destroying planets.

I was gonna say....isn't Genis here too?

Originally posted by tkitna
Yet while he was half ass fighting Genis, they were destroying planets.
That's almost as powerful as Charles Xavier who was destroying planets in microverse too.

And the Microverse is as big as any other dimensions.

It is called "Micro" but that's not an accurate description:

https://s1.postimg.org/148jubzfwf/FF282_29whatthemicroverseis.jpg

Damn something has to be wrong here. Quanchi isn't commenting on the outcome.

Lol he's never engaged Realitywarper in a debate....I think he's scared of him (justifiably so).

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol he's never engaged Realitywarper in a debate....I think he's scared of him (justifiably so).

Or we are friends and he let me debate ?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol he's never engaged Realitywarper in a debate....I think he's scared of him (justifiably so).
Yep, I'm thinking so too.

It said both of them though,not just genis.