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This is an unusual thread, and I don't know if it's in the correct forum. However, everyone bangs on that Wonderwoman and Hercules are skilled... That Wolverine and the Black Panther are skilled - All very well and good you say they clearly are and that can't be disagreed with. However, Hercules is ancient, and his skills don't seem to have improved much since maybe his first 100 years, Wonderwoman (bear with me I'm not up with the present iteration is also ancient by human terms). Furthermore being "gods" you'd expect them to have a better ability to learn, an enhanced set of motor skills. Which leads me on to Wolverine, he has had training, but he has always been a mutant with improved reflexes etc. The Panther is a skilled human, enhanced with herb and blessed by the spirits. They all have skills, but are they exceptionally skilled with their power set or just in combat arts and does this ability make a difference really?

Example, Spiderman (yeah I know he's been through changes) but Spidey developed his own skills based on his powers and reflexes. He is not a skilled Martial Artist, but after years of using his powers, he is experienced with them to the point, I'd take him over Wolverine without his claws any day. The Flash, has mad skills with his powers, Flash fact...Give Cap or Batman Hercules strength and see who wins in a fight Herc 1000's of years of experience or Cap and Batman?

Ben Grimm and Luke Cage, scale up their power to Hercs, trust me I don't think Herc wins.

So, what is this skill we are talking about and how does it stack up against the ability to use the powers a hero has effectively?

The way I define skill is an offense to defense ratio, how many blows you can land vs how many you can avoid/defend. All else being roughly equal physically.

I don't go by how many martial arts styles you know, because that's stupid as hell. What does knowing 127 styles of martial do other than waste your time with massive redundancies?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The way I define skill is an offense to defense ratio, how many blows you can land vs how many you can avoid/defend. All else being roughly equal physically.

I don't go by how many martial arts styles you know, because that's stupid as hell. What does knowing 127 styles of martial do other than waste your time with massive redundancies? I don't think that's a bad way to define it at all and kind of what my initial post gets at. Good call pal.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The way I define skill is an offense to defense ratio, how many blows you can land vs how many you can avoid/defend. All else being roughly equal physically. A good way of judging in general, but not necessarily the right way. Especially when there are characters like moon knight, punisher, wolverine, lobo, etc. All of the above fight by hitting their opponent while getting hit by their opponent.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I don't go by how many martial arts styles you know, because that's stupid as hell. What does knowing 127 styles of martial do other than waste your time with massive redundancies? this is very true. There comes a certain point when learning more styles won't help you. With that said, the more styles you know, the more likely it is that you'll recognize your opponents attack pattern and be capable of utilizing a pattern that counters them.

There are some that can get away with being hit because they are durable or have healing factors or some other gimmick that makes getting hit ok. But that gets into abilities and muddies the water on pure skill discussions. Just because you are the most skilled fighter doesn't mean you are the best fighter anyway.

Still if you can mitigate the need for defense and constantly focus on attack, then your attack is going to be as effective as possible.

A 100% dedicated offense is better than an only 50% committed attack.

That's why an armored swordsman has a huge advantage over an unarmored swordsman, all else being equal.

Always enjoyed reading Cosmic posts. I can tell that he is an observant person and probably provides great details of things on whatever job/career he is doing. Good posts.

Originally posted by Steve Zodiac
This is an unusual thread, and I don't know if it's in the correct forum. However, everyone bangs on that Wonderwoman and Hercules are skilled... That Wolverine and the Black Panther are skilled - All very well and good you say they clearly are and that can't be disagreed with. However, Hercules is ancient, and his skills don't seem to have improved much since maybe his first 100 years, Wonderwoman (bear with me I'm not up with the present iteration is also ancient by human terms). Furthermore being "gods" you'd expect them to have a better ability to learn, an enhanced set of motor skills. Which leads me on to Wolverine, he has had training, but he has always been a mutant with improved reflexes etc. The Panther is a skilled human, enhanced with herb and blessed by the spirits. They all have skills, but are they exceptionally skilled with their power set or just in combat arts and does this ability make a difference really?

Example, Spiderman (yeah I know he's been through changes) but Spidey developed his own skills based on his powers and reflexes. He is not a skilled Martial Artist, but after years of using his powers, he is experienced with them to the point, I'd take him over Wolverine without his claws any day. The Flash, has mad skills with his powers, Flash fact...Give Cap or Batman Hercules strength and see who wins in a fight Herc 1000's of years of experience or Cap and Batman?

Ben Grimm and Luke Cage, scale up their power to Hercs, trust me I don't think Herc wins.

So, what is this skill we are talking about and how does it stack up against the ability to use the powers a hero has effectively?

Good thread.

For example, the Hulk. Everyone thinks he's just a dumb brawler - but you know what? HIS style works for him. He wins fights, end of. He uses his abilities pretty damn effectively. Which dovetails nicely into Cosmic's post - Hulk isn't the most skilled, but in a hth brawl? I'm picking him.

Superman has skills.

He was body swapped with Batman and Kobra. I think he had Kobra, and Kobra had Bruce or something... Whatever, point is there were both peak human.

Kobra's a guy who could hold his own with Mr. Terrific, a formidable martial artist. Supes still took him, with the brawling tactics he learned against all the Doomsdays, Zods, Black Adams, Lobo's, Gardners, or any number of killers who don't pull a punch or try not to kill.

You wouldn't think of Superman as skilled in that way, but it makes total sense..

Yeah that's another. I too am of the school that disdains knowing 2000 style of martial arts - the human body and physics means that there are only so many ways of throwing an effective punch and kick, for example.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Good thread.

For example, the Hulk. Everyone thinks he's just a dumb brawler - but you know what? HIS style works for him. He wins fights, end of. He uses his abilities pretty damn effectively. Which dovetails nicely into Cosmic's post - Hulk isn't the most skilled, but in a hth brawl? I'm picking him. Thanks, mate and I agree with you and shock horror cdtm, although I usually do agree with cdtm on comics, it's just politics where he and I are at other ends of the spectrum.