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The poll has my name but doesn't specify my sins. Elaborate, my dude.

The old-ass formatting of this site in addition to all of the grotesque characters who inhabit it. What new, innocent star wars fan would want to be among us?

Originally posted by Azronger
The poll has my name but doesn't specify my sins. Elaborate, my dude.

Existing.

OH F*CK!!!

I forgot to add "not being able to edit your posts after 5 minutes."

I'd add it. If I wasn't locked out from editing...

When newguy joined he was kinda nice, but then slowly over time he turned into a douche.

thats all because of u tho

none of those things, newfag

Originally posted by NewGuy01
none of those things, newfag

Holy shit, it's Neph.

No it's not, I'm a ghost.

real neph an heroed by overdose of heroine

As people are still posting here. KMC, is by definition, not dead.

And Zenwolf is not the problem, he can never be the problem, only the solution we willfully ignore.

DESTROY THE INVADERS

Devil be rising up

Mostly lack of new material and characters. It gets better when a new movie is released

I always liked star wars movies but barely got into the books on audible.
just happened to run across the Bane books at first and that piqued my interest but got threats and derided for liking Bane.
I was starting to spread out to the other stuff but the mood was forever changed

Lack of new characters. And yeah there's a lot but no one really cares about most of them

Ant's Gillard obsession, Azronger's everything and lack of new members.

you have a member that's new to star wars that is actually telling you one thing that killed it from a new person's perspective but you idiotic retards continue to do the same shiit to kill the boards.

we dont want people believing Bane > Aayla Secura on the forums here
its better for it to die

Originally posted by Raisen
you have a member that's new to star wars that is actually telling you one thing that killed it from a new person's perspective but you idiotic retards continue to do the same shiit to kill the boards.


Shut the f*ck up.

lol. alright

Originally posted by Kurk
Absolutely. Members here have their heads stuck so far up the asses of top tier force users that every thread is more-or-less a pissing contest between between X and Y (valk and sids jk). It's rare to see threads made on "fodder" characters or non force-sensitives.

Dunno why you jabbed at me with that one, if it was such.

But I mean here's what I've been seeing regarding it. The most talked about characters seem to be.

Obi-Wan, Yoda, Valk/Vitiate, Sidious, Vader, Dooku, Anakin, Ventress, Kun and Maul.

From what I've seen mostly, these are the characters that are usually mixed and matched in just about every matchup and scenario more than once in some kind of fashion.

There's barely or hardly any talk about any other Force Users by comparison, when there is plenty of material regarding such characters, which usually these guys are just put as opponents or just dismissed altogether or just used as 'jokes'.

You're right though, discussions usually revolve around the high tier Force Users and it's generally recycling information that's been said. Where do you have a discussion if there's nothing new? There's a whole universe and many look at a very, very, very small fraction of it.

Among other things that come around here.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Dunno why you jabbed at me with that one, if it was such.

But I mean here's what I've been seeing regarding it. The most talked about characters seem to be.

Obi-Wan, Yoda, Valk/Vitiate, Sidious, Vader, Dooku, Anakin, Ventress, Kun and Maul.

From what I've seen mostly, these are the characters that are usually mixed and matched in just about every matchup and scenario more than once in some kind of fashion.

There's barely or hardly any talk about any other Force Users by comparison, when there is plenty of material regarding such characters, which usually these guys are just put as opponents or just dismissed altogether or just used as 'jokes'.

You're right though, discussions usually revolve around the high tier Force Users and it's generally recycling information that's been said. Where do you have a discussion if there's nothing new? There's a whole universe and many look at a very, very, very small fraction of it.

Among other things that come around here. No that was a jab at the likes of other users. (*ahem* Azronger)

The Devil of Hell's Kitchen, that's what.

Well, now is as good a time as any to break my years-long lurking to simply say that a more apt title would be what led to KMC's decline and that would lead me to simply say a lot of things did. No one real cause there.

Zenwolf is the best thing about KMC. I'm not even trolling.
Why do people hate the guy?

The same old Force sensitive 'versus battles' get old.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
As people are still posting here. KMC, is by definition, not dead.

Unfortunately, this is true.

Originally posted by Kurk
No that was a jab at the likes of other users. (*ahem* Azronger)

Funny that you mention it, since I've been trying to branch out recently (Exar Kun vs Galen and 'Killer, anyone?) but it really isn't my fault if all my favorite characters happen to be the most powerful ones (Sheev, Luke, Vader, Plagueis etc.) and from the era with the best-written stories. Those are the ones I've invested most of my time researching and developing arguments for, and as such arguing for them is only a logical choice. If this pisses you off, then it isn't my problem, really.

Besides, there are plenty of non-Force users/fodder level Force users I like, but due to their nature as low-tier combatants, talking about their combat abilities in a versus setting is a bit boring to me. If it was literature analysis, I'd be on board with them, but in VS matches I strongly gravitate towards the more powerful characters.

Also, as far as I know, there's never been a big Kun vs Krayt debate, despite that apparently being a really contested fight. There's still room for something new even among the higher tiers.

^ I don't think people really care enough about Krayt tbh. And the Kun debate's a bit old, with Nai making virtually every single argument possible for him over the years.

If you haven't been convinced that Kun is > Vader or Palpatine or whoever after reading through his posts, you never will be. He's a polarizing character and only has some scaling and quotes, with little (albeit impressive) feats.

There's plenty of Krayt fans here: me, ILS, Unbowed, Wollf, NewGuy etc. All have pretty much retired, though. I might be the only one active, but I think Kun wins that fight, albeit narrowly.

Kotor was my first Legends material I saw outside the movies.

Pretty sure ILS is also a TOTJ fanboy. I think he'd back Kun.

Nah, ILS has Krayt > Kun.

I voted that it all went to hell because of that Wollfmyth cvnt. What gives him the nerve to walk upon this sacred land?

Originally posted by ILS
The Devil of Hell's Kitchen, that's what.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it's not, I'm a ghost.

And you should stay dead

Just wanted to say, I honestly feel that Ant's Anakin/Gillard tier system wank completely killed what little debate was left.

And is is a bad thing if Anakin is now ranked by most people where he should be ranked? All the facts point to him being on Yoda's level by RotS. What's the point in denying them? How did that kill anything?

I'm saying that these tiers being used as the be all end all made the placements even more fixed then they already were, and, as a result, made debating characters on different tiers pointless killing a large part of debate on the forum given a lot of the debate remaining was based around PT era characters.

Your attempt to standardize things is one of the reasons you're on the poll.

If facts make you not want to debate, sounds more like a personal problem than a problem with anyone else.

Anyway, the reason this place is dead is because everything from Star Wars has been ****ing awful and boring since SWTOR and the Disney take over. Any new content has been suspect, ala TFA, or involving characters we already know. This is of course ignoring Rebels, in which everyone introduced is terrible. This coupled with how miserable even speaking to half the people here can be would kill just about any forum, let alone a small one like this.

Only one of them? Come, don't be afraid - no point in hiding anything. I want to hear the reasons for this hatred I find so appetizing.

https://i.imgur.com/rxCBRQe.gif

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
If facts make you not want to debate, sounds more like a personal problem than a problem with anyone else.

The thing is, they're not fact. Gillard saying T9 is the highest tier and swordsman on that level are all equal doesn't make it so. If that were the case then no character could be a superior saber combatant to the likes of RotS Sidious or RotS Yoda which doesn't make sense given the mechanics of the Force. A more powerful individual with better augmentation but equal skill should logically be above them.

There's also the attempt by those who wanked the system to have it both ways. Sometimes they tried to claim it related to overall ability as a saber combatant and other times they tried to claim it was only in regards to technical skill. Whatever worked best for their wank at the time.

It was never stated to be restricted to saber combat at all, so I agree that claiming it's only in regards to technical skill is retarded.

Your attempt to hang the blame for KMC's lack of activity on an argument you don't like is cute, though.

It's stated to be gauge how two combatants would fare in a fight.

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Originally posted by NewGuy01
It was never stated to be restricted to saber combat at all, so I agree that claiming it's only in regards to technical skill is retarded.

Your attempt to hang the blame for KMC's lack of activity on an argument you don't like is cute, though.

I think it killed a lot of the debate regarding highly used characters like Dooku, Mace, Maul, Obi Wan, etc.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66


It's stated to be gauge how two combatants would fare in a fight.

Key word there being "gauge."

Hence why it's a tier system and not "Anakin is 9.45254, etc."

The tier system has room for movement, hence why Mace can slide between a high 8 and a 9, TPM Kenobi from a 6 or 7, etc.

Since, you know, characters aren't static and can improve based on conditions - particularly via dark-side usage.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I think it killed a lot of the debate regarding highly used characters like Dooku, Mace, Maul, Obi Wan, etc.
There's no need to debate on matters Lucas already has decreed a victor.

Mace is the factual superior to Dooku, Maul, or Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Rockydonovang
As people are still posting here. KMC, is by definition, not dead.
.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Mace is the factual superior to Dooku, Maul, or Obi-Wan.

We disagree on this.

There's nothing to disagree about.

Lucas' word is factually absolute.

I disagree with your interpretation of Mace's ranking.

Your interpretation of Mace's ranking isn't equivalent to a statement by George Lucas even though I know you'd like to think so.

Entertain me.

Why's "my interpretation not equivalent to a statement by Lucas?"

There is shit to interpret man.

Mace is stated to be on tier 9 or bordering from 8 to 9. Either way, a 9.
Dooku is stated to be in tier 8.

9 > 8
8-9 range > 9

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Holy shit, it's Neph.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Entertain me.

Why's "my interpretation not equivalent to a statement by Lucas?"

I believe Mace's 8-9 ranking is referencing his use of Vaapad elevating his ability. This is due to his performance against the likes of Grievous and Dooku post Haruun Kal where his Vaapad should allow him to feed off Dooku's own darkness as well as his own.

I'm failing to see your point. We know for a fact Mace was using Vaapad in Episode III. Are you attempting to claim Gillard didn't take into account or know the in universe effect Vaapad would have on Mace because of that statement?

Because if that's the case, I personally find such an assumption to be a stretch and something I would need confirmation of. Not just the speculation of the mighty DarthAnt66.

Vaapad was created by the Expanded Universe, not George Lucas. As a result, it's not recognized by Lucasfilm when creating the movies. Lucas is constantly on recording stating that the Expanded Universe will not restrict him in any way, and while he may call upon it if necessary, he is no means beholden to it. To give an example, when making TCW, Lucas told his team to completely ignore all previous Expanded Universe content concerning the Clone Wars if there were any contradictions.

So, in this case, Lucas bestows upon Nick Gillard the authority to run the lightsaber fights based on the script and tier system that Lucas created. In Lucas' rankings, he has Mace legitimately capable of defeating Sidious, and at the very least a rival. Further, we know Vaapad is not used because Nick Gillard is on record saying so.

Thus, Mace can straight-up defeat Sidious without Vaapad factoring into it. You are trying to reconcile the fight with Vaapad, but that doesn't change Lucas' position that Mace can do it without Vaapad. So, you can have Mace as bordering on 9 without Vaapad, and then a tier 9 with Vaapad, but doing anything else would be contradicting Lucas and that isn't possible.

Perhaps Vaapad isn't recognized, but Mace's ability to become incredibly pissed off is, yes?

It stands to reason Mace did tap into the dark-side, hence why I like to believe bordering 8 is w/o the dark-side and 9 is with.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Vaapad was created by the Expanded Universe, not George Lucas. As a result, it's not recognized by Lucasfilm when creating the movies. Lucas is constantly on recording stating that the Expanded Universe will not restrict him in any way, and while he may call upon it if necessary, he is no means beholden to it. To give an example, when making TCW, Lucas told his team to completely ignore all previous Expanded Universe content concerning the Clone Wars if there were any contradictions.

So, in this case, Lucas bestows upon Nick Gillard the authority to run the lightsaber fights based on the script and tier system that Lucas created. In Lucas' rankings, he has Mace legitimately capable of defeating Sidious, and at the very least a rival. Further, we know Vaapad is not used because Nick Gillard is on record saying so.

Thus, Mace can straight-up defeat Sidious without Vaapad factoring into it. You are trying to reconcile the fight with Vaapad, but that doesn't change Lucas' position that Mace can do it without Vaapad. So, you can have Mace as bordering on 9 without Vaapad, and then a tier 9 with Vaapad, but doing anything else would be contradicting Lucas and that isn't possible.

Can anybody tell me if Ant snuck a source stating what he claims in this post of if it's just more speculation on his part. Don't want to waste the energy if it doesn't.

>blames ant for ruining debates
>refuses to participate in debate

Syn descending further into madness. Soon he'll be worse than AP.

Oh, so, Syn's problem is that two characters are now ranked higher than they used to be, and that in his opinion "killed a lot of the debate." Except that, what he is doing right now, is debating their position...

Retard.

And no idea what debate was killed regarding Dooku, Maul, and Obi-Wan. All of them are ranked on the same level. What the hell did that kill? I hope nobody ever seriously contemplated the notion of someone like Kit Fisto beating any one of those guys.

You must not have been around on CV a few years ago...

nah, but I have Fisto just below Maul and Kenobi tbh

Nah Bart. Obi Wan solos 3 opponents on that level.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t644941.html

>says tier system led to death of kmc
>links to debate sparked by tier system

Vapaad's superconducting loop isn't circumstantial. The boost Mace got from the revelation that Sidious was a sith was still something he could draw on even after overcoming his emotional turmoil.

That this was some sort of temporal amp is utterly unsupported. Untill someone can provide actual evidence here, anyone arguing that Mace's vapaad boost was circumstantial is perpetuating unsubstantiated nonsense.

Or, and this is just a thought, we can all get off of the conceptual penis that Sidious and Yoda have, and realize that they can be defeated just like anyone else in a combat scenario, regardless of how powerful they are. That's always an option too.

Which, by the way, increases debate, not lower it.

People get bored of debating countless variations - of the same matches - a billion times over.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
People get bored of debating countless variations - of the same matches - a billion times over.
Yep pretty much. Until new material like a movie comes out and temporarily revives the forum

Originally posted by Rebel95
Yep pretty much. Until new material like a movie comes out and temporarily revives the forum

Or...there's actual other research done with all the dozens of comics, novels and so on that are already there. Since when did everything suddenly rely on a movie? The material is already there.

Zenwolf is right, tbh

Originally posted by Rebel95
Yep pretty much. Until new material like a movie comes out and temporarily revives the forum

New movies don't really help because they are canon only.

Zoltan is right too.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
New movies don't really help because they are canon only.
True.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Or...there's actual other research done with all the dozens of comics, novels and so on that are already there. Since when did everything suddenly rely on a movie? The material is already there.
Yeah that too.