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Of all Star Wars films, episodes one through eight, who is the strongest Force user?

Both mentally and physically.

Cite specific examples and why. Elaboration is greatly appreciated.

*Edit: Let me know if more poll options are needed.

For now I think the strongest force user, going just by feats from movies, is Palpatine.

Notice his fight with Yoda, you remember he tosses a pod at Yoda and Yoda needs moments of concentration, etc. in order to toss it back. Compare this to Palpatine easily chucking senate pods all around the room. He just TK'd shit with ease. Remember Yoda lifting Lukes ship? Not instant, needed some time. Palpatine just Tk's shit with no charge up needed. He levitated multiple senate pods with ease.

Strongest physical force user, has to be Vader, if we go by just movie feats.

by feats Sheev Palpatine..

Vader is up there..

Rey isn't far behind them

Honestly, I'm torn between Yoda and Palpatine.

Both showed tremendously keen feats of the Force.

Palpatine so far in canon. With Yoda coming after.

We sadly never got to see what Anakin and Luke could do at max potential even though both have some impressive feats anyway.

EU Luke is a beast.

He was like the Star Wars Superman. With Superman you just put the word "super" in front of something and boom, shit went down. "Super weaving" exists. I f*cking dare you to prove me wrong. It is a legit thing.

Luke just has the force version. "Something something black holes something something the force".

Rey, because I like her the best.

Yoda blow a f#cking tree up using the force

After careful consideration, I'm voting for Master Yoda.

Didn't he put someones soul into a tree.

Palpatine then Yoda a close 2nd

Luke's display at the end of TLJ was an unprecedented display of mastery from what we've seen in the films. Though I guess it may not be more "powerful" than what we see Sheev do.

Sidious by feats.. Yoda and Vader aren't far behind if you count the shows

If we count CW series than it's a tie between Sidious and Yoda. Vader is 2nd.

Yeah, I'm going with Sheev no matter which canon we use. Yoda as a force ghost lightning striking a tree isn't really a feat. And even if we accept that as one, it'd be inadmissable as Yoda is one with the force at that point. Luke's new #1: feat as of disney canon is indeed impressive, and yet limited in actual utility. It's a force projection, but nobody knows if it could do actual damage.

That leaves Palpatine's galactic level decades long force manipulation under the jedi's nose as the single biggest feat of the force in the movies. Snoke, Rey and Kylo, and even Vader don't really have anything to compete with that.

If we enter non movie territories, and EU... well that is a whole different set of circumstances, as we get into territories such as Nihilus and Starkiller and all that stuff.

Sidious, Windu is up there as well.

-Sidious
-Yoda
-Windu
-Vader

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Yeah, I'm going with Sheev no matter which canon we use. Yoda as a force ghost lightning striking a tree isn't really a feat. And even if we accept that as one, it'd be inadmissable as Yoda is one with the force at that point. Luke's new #1: feat as of disney canon is indeed impressive, and yet limited in actual utility. It's a force projection, but nobody knows if it could do actual damage.

That leaves Palpatine's galactic level decades long force manipulation under the jedi's nose as the single biggest feat of the force in the movies. Snoke, Rey and Kylo, and even Vader don't really have anything to compete with that.

If we enter non movie territories, and EU... well that is a whole different set of circumstances, as we get into territories such as Nihilus and Starkiller and all that stuff.

Plus tree's aren't evil, why harm them. I thought he is supposed to love Wookies. They have big trees on their planet. Chewbacca is shedding tears over the tree. I know it.

Still I do think in the EU he put a dudes soul into a tree too. Why does he hate nature?

The Strongest Force user!

Based on screen feats that would be Luke Skywalker.

He was able to create a solid manifestation eons of kilometers away!

That is something NO JEDI/NOR SITH has replicated in canon material.


Now, the one CLOSEST to the force would be Yoda.

Yoda's understanding and relationship with the Force is unrivaled in SW canon.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Yoda blow a f#cking tree up using the force

I agree.

The problem i have is that Yoda focused more on training and being the wisdom of the Jedi order.

He rarely engaged into combat. Reason why he has little feats to back him up.

But we saw Yoda beating Dooku and Sidious which is amazing still.

However Luke creating a manifestation of himself in another planet is some serious FEAT....FEATWISE i put Luke>Yoda

Originally posted by Impediment
After careful consideration, I'm voting for Master Yoda.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
I agree.

The problem i have is that Yoda focused more on training and being the wisdom of the Jedi order.

He rarely engaged into combat. Reason why he has little feats to back him up.

But we saw Yoda beating Dooku and Sidious which is amazing still.

However Luke creating a manifestation of himself in another planet is some serious FEAT....FEATWISE i put Luke>Yoda

where exactly did you see Yoda beating Sidious?

Originally posted by relentless1
where exactly did you see Yoda beating Sidious?

The moment the fight took place on an unstable terrain (Fighting on pots)
where Sidious had the high terrain advantange.

Yoda didn't lost to Sidious. He felt from the pot as result from the explosion. By that time Troopers were already reaching the place.

Snoke. This isn't close. The fact I'm the only one who voted for him shows me people are lying to themselves.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke. This isn't close. The fact I'm the only one who voted for him shows me people are lying to themselves.

Maybe, but not featwise Quanchi.

Wait to see Snoke in SW9 for more feats.

Until now Yoda, Luke, and Sidious are top 3.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Maybe, but not featwise Quanchi.

Wait to see Snoke in SW9 for more feats.

Until now Yoda, Luke, and Sidious are top 3. Feats don't determine superiority it's how they stack up. Just because Rey lifts a lot of rocks doesn't mean she can do a damn thing to Snoke. Feats are usually exclusive to said character in a certain situation. Snoke was beyond Rey and Ben in direct conflict. Luke wasn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Feats don't determine superiority it's how they stack up. Just because Rey lifts a lot of rocks doesn't mean she can do a damn thing to Snoke. Feats are usually exclusive to said character in a certain situation. Snoke was beyond Rey and Ben in direct conflict. Luke wasn't.

Again until more feats are obtained it's just expectation. I would expect Snoke to be beyond Sidious but he hasn't shown to be.

Rey and Kylo are still rather new in the force. So that feat isn't that impressive.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Again until more feats are obtained it's just expectation. I would expect Snoke to be beyond Sidious but he hasn't shown to be.

Rey and Kylo are still rather new in the force. So that feat isn't that impressive. Feats don't determine superiority they just encourage speculation. When we see someone lift a huge rock it doesn't matter when that character runs into Snoke. Snoke was beyond Rey or Ben. Kylo was trained by Luke and Snoke so enough of the nonsense. Luke wasn't beyond Kylo as seen in the film.

Rey also put Luke on his ass. In direct conflict they can challenge Luke unlike Snoke. That's the point. Snoke is already confirmed as the most powerful.

Sidious is stronger than Yoda for several reasons.
1. He was able to hide the force that was inside him from Yoda and the entire council (including his intentions).
2. He was able to see the future with more detail than Yoda ever has.
3. He was able to casually move heavy objects that Yoda struggled with.

Originally posted by h1a8
Sidious is stronger than Yoda for several reasons.
1. He was able to hide the force that was inside him from Yoda and the entire council (including his intentions).
2. He was able to see the future with more detail than Yoda ever has.
3. He was able to casually move heavy objects that Yoda struggled with.

1. Granted
2. Not really.
3. Denied.

The Dark Side is known for clouding the Light Side.

It is expected of any Sith Lord to be able to hide himself from the Jedi's

In fact, Sith's were believed to be extinct by the Jedi's for a millenium.

So isn't like Sidious is the only Sith to be able to hide himself.

Yoda is more powerful because:

1. He is faster and better skilled with the Light Saber.
2. His knowledge over the Force surpasses Sidious.
3. He defeated Sidious in the long term (He believed in Luke and trained him to defeat the Empire).

Originally posted by quanchi112
Feats don't determine superiority they just encourage speculation. When we see someone lift a huge rock it doesn't matter when that character runs into Snoke. Snoke was beyond Rey or Ben. Kylo was trained by Luke and Snoke so enough of the nonsense. Luke wasn't beyond Kylo as seen in the film.

Rey also put Luke on his ass. In direct conflict they can challenge Luke unlike Snoke. That's the point. Snoke is already confirmed as the most powerful.

Based off what is Kylo and Rey> Luke?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Based off what is Kylo and Rey> Luke? I didn't say they were greater than Luke I did say we see they were both threats in direct conflict to Luke. Rey put him on his old ass. How did Ben fare against him when he woke up with his Lightsaber drawn ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't say they were greater than Luke I did say we see they were both threats in direct conflict to Luke. Rey put him on his old ass. How did Ben fare against him when he woke up with his Lightsaber drawn ?



Did you forget that Luke hesitated in killing Kylo?

Did you forget that he took seconds into tought and regret?

If Luke was a bad guy and really wished Kylo dead he would have killed him!

Do you forget how Luke MASSIVELY TROLLED Kylo by creating a manifestation of himself EONS OF KILOMETERS away?

Luke is way beyond Kylo and Rey for now Quanchi.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Did you forget that Luke hesitated in killing Kylo?

Did you forget that he took seconds into tought and regret?

If Luke was a bad guy and really wished Kylo dead he would have killed him!

Do you forget how Luke MASSIVELY TROLLED Kylo by creating a manifestation of himself EONS OF KILOMETERS away?

Luke is way beyond Kylo and Rey for now Quanchi. He still had his saber and abilities. I guess when Maul is overconfident its unforgivable but when Luke gets beaten it's ok that's just old self doubting Luke.

His own self doubt is his issue. You abandon your logic all the time and this is another example. Your response would be but he lost deal with it. I'm just exposing your own hypocrispy.

Speculation. But to kill a sleeping foe is despicable.

Yes, he did and the effort killed him. He was also on a nexus. Nah, we see him in direct conflict. Snoke is the only one beyond those two. Luke wasn't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He still had his saber and abilities. I guess when Maul is overconfident its unforgivable but when Luke gets beaten it's ok that's just old self doubting Luke.

His own self doubt is his issue. You abandon your logic all the time and this is another example. Your response would be but he lost deal with it. I'm just exposing your own hypocrispy.

Speculation. But to kill a sleeping foe is despicable.

Yes, he did and the effort killed him. He was also on a nexus. Nah, we see him in direct conflict. Snoke is the only one beyond those two. Luke wasn't.



Overconfindent and Doubting aren't the same.

Again, sorry but that's not how it works.

Luke's manifestation wasn't even touched by Kylo's saber until he allowed so.

So again, Luke>Kylo.

Whether you like it or not.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Overconfindent and Doubting aren't the same.

Again, sorry but that's not how it works.

Luke's manifestation wasn't even touched by Kylo's saber until he allowed so.

So again, Luke>Kylo.

Whether you like it or not. I never said they were but they are clear examples Anyine can be caught off guard. Luke's is far worse since Ben wakes up and immediately defends himself in an extremely vulnerable position.

You use double standards.

So ? He barely dodged and he was already annihilated by the blasts of the walkers. He was tricked but Luke in direct conflict didn't look superior to Rey or Ben what little we saw.

Iyo not mine. Luke was the one scared and the one who failed Ben per his own words. Listen to Luke. He was a shameful, self doubting, grumpy old man.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said they were but they are clear examples Anyine can be caught off guard. Luke's is far worse since Ben wakes up and immediately defends himself in an extremely vulnerable position.

You use double standards.

So ? He barely dodged and he was already annihilated by the blasts of the walkers. He was tricked but Luke in direct conflict didn't look superior to Rey or Ben what little we saw.

Iyo not mine. Luke was the one scared and the one who failed Ben per his own words. Listen to Luke. He was a shameful, self doubting, grumpy old man.

Stop it. Even when he manifested himself on the other planet Kylo wasn't even able to touch him with his sword.

In a fight Luke defeats Kylo. Stop trying to fight logic and feats.

Kylo and Ray are force noobs not to be compared with an experienced Luke.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Stop it. Even when he manifested himself on the other planet Kylo wasn't even able to touch him with his sword.

In a fight Luke defeats Kylo. Stop trying to fight logic and feats.

Kylo and Ray are force noobs not to be compared with an experienced Luke. Luke was unable to be harmed physically but as I said Kylo's impulsivity clouds his judgment.

We see them go at it. One guy left the fallen for dead. We already saw their fight. Accept the facts not your own speculation.

Nah, not according to Luke. Luke also already lost to one. Whoops. Snoke is beyond either in direct conflict. Just stop. Rey also put him on his ass.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke. This isn't close. The fact I'm the only one who voted for him shows me people are lying to themselves.



-

Anyhow. But it's easily Palpatine, Yoda or Luke now. Luke's force feat in ep8 was most impressive.

Originally posted by Robtard


-

Anyhow. But it's easily Palpatine, Yoda or Luke now. Luke's force feat in ep8 was most impressive. Feats don't determine superiority. They never have. It's who is more powerful than the other in a direct confrontation. Snoke also bridged two minds and was beyond Rey and Ben in direct conflict. Luke for sure wasn't but you're a feat guy. Feats only matter posters are adorably naive.

Snoke

Palpatine was Yoda's equal, sport.

Originally posted by Robtard


-

Anyhow. But it's easily Palpatine, Yoda or Luke now. Luke's force feat in ep8 was most impressive.

Agree.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Luke was unable to be harmed physically but as I said Kylo's impulsivity clouds his judgment.

We see them go at it. One guy left the fallen for dead. We already saw their fight. Accept the facts not your own speculation.

Nah, not according to Luke. Luke also already lost to one. Whoops. Snoke is beyond either in direct conflict. Just stop. Rey also put him on his ass.

Until i see either Kylo or Rey manifesting themselves Planets, if not Solar Systems away the way Luke is no argument of yours is valid Quanchi.

I am not debating Snoke vs Luke.

Am saying stop being ignorant by saying Kylo and Rey can even oppose Luke.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Until i see either Kylo or Rey manifesting themselves Planets, if not Solar Systems away the way Luke is no argument of yours is valid Quanchi.

I am not debating Snoke vs Luke.

Am saying stop being ignorant by saying Kylo and Rey can even oppose Luke. I wish you understood the analogy I'm going to make but I'll do so anyway. It's like saying Luke is better chest exercises but that doesn't take into account his formidability.

What happened to Luke when he went after Ben ?

They did in the film. Quit ignoring the facts and talking about another feat from the grumpy old man on a nexus. It was an amp IMO.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Feats don't determine superiority. They never have. It's who is more powerful than the other in a direct confrontation. Snoke also bridged two minds and was beyond Rey and Ben in direct conflict. Luke for sure wasn't but you're a feat guy. Feats only matter posters are adorably naive.

Snoke

Palpatine was Yoda's equal, sport.

You say feats don't matter, than you use feats. Lolz

Palpatine would curbstomp Snoke in very department. Luke would too as would Vader and Rey is going to surpass everyone in ep9 knowing Disney and their love of making female characters beat everyone.

Snoke's a tosser and a throwaway villain. He was little more than a gilded prop to move the narrative of Kylo becoming the main villain. Cool voice though, as Serkis is great at voices.

Palpatine is superior to Snoke in every way and actually won. He was on top for over 20 years, far longer than Snoke.

Palpatine, Vader, Luke would all make Snoke their *****.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I wish you understood the analogy I'm going to make but I'll do so anyway. It's like saying Luke is better chest exercises but that doesn't take into account his formidability.

What happened to Luke when he went after Ben ?

They did in the film. Quit ignoring the facts and talking about another feat from the grumpy old man on a nexus. It was an amp IMO.



Wait until SW9 Quanchi. So then you can actually debate with facts not opinions.

Originally posted by Robtard
You say feats don't matter, than you use feats. Lolz

Palpatine would curbstomp Snoke in very department. Luke would too as would Vader and Rey is going to surpass everyone in ep9 knowing Disney and their love of making female characters beat everyone.

Snoke's a tosser and a throwaway villain. He was little more than a gilded prop to move the narrative of Kylo becoming the main villain. Cool voice though, as Serkis is great at voices. Feats matter but comparisons hold more weight since it's an active gauge of their powers against each other not just exclusive feats.

Snoke would force rape him at will. Palpatine was unable to recover from a one armed cyborg and he had over five seconds to defend himself. He also lost to Windu and just held the higher ground to the failure master known as Yoda.

Quit speculating. Snoke is >>>Rey who was Ben's equal in force power. Facts matter.

Iyo but his power is undeniable. You don't care for Snoke and have always favored the Ot villains whereas I've always favored the new trilogy. It's fine.

It is great that no one else loves Snoke save me and possibly one other poster.

Originally posted by playa1258
Palpatine is superior to Snoke in every way and actually won. He was on top for over 20 years, far longer than Snoke.

Palpatine, Vader, Luke would all make Snoke their *****. It is a matter of perspective. That has no bearing on power. Snoke is blatantly more powerful than Palpatine who benefited from the failure and hubris of the Jedi. Confirmed.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Wait until SW9 Quanchi. So then you can actually debate with facts not opinions. We already saw how Snoke compares to them and how Luke does. Snoke is at the top confirmed by the Serkis actor stating he's more powerful than Palpatine and Vader.

@ quanchi112 Amazing. Everything you said in those sentences is wrong.

Nope, Snoke's a chump, he was just a springboard for Kylo to get where he was always going. He's best forgotten, he's part of "the past".

Um, Rey without training has bested Kylo and with just a few moments of training bested Luke. She's stronger in the Force (raw power) than either of them. She's going to be the most powerful F-user we've seen in ep9, Disney is clearly going this path.

Snoke was a red herring. How many times do I have to post this?

Originally posted by Robtard
@ quanchi112 Amazing. Everything you said in those sentences is wrong.

Nope, Snoke's a chump, he was just a springboard for Kylo to get where he was always going. He's best forgotten, he's part of "the past".

Um, Rey without training has bested Kylo and with just a few moments of training bested Luke. She's stronger in the Force (raw power) than either of them. She's going to be the most powerful F-user we've seen in ep9, Disney is clearly going this path. You can use that logic about Palpatine. In the Ot he barely does anything and then is just killed as an afterthought. I don't want to see my villains taking a shit and popping zits. We know and actually get to see his actions prior to his death in Rotj. We haven't seen Snoke prior to Force awakens but that doesn't lessen his overall superiority in the story.

Your opinion isn't a valid point. It's bias. That's not debating.

Rey beat him because he was spiritually weakened by killing Han, shot by Chewie, and grazed by a saber. Be at least someone objective for ****s sake. We see them stalemate in the force in this film. That's what matters when shit is on the line and we clearly see a stalemate without him being emotionally drained and weaker by the death of his father.

Snoke already is and he humiliated her in the force. That's an actual showing/indicator of how powerful he is.

Originally posted by Impediment
Snoke was a red herring. How many times do I have to post this? That is your opinion but has nothing to do with his power in a versus debate. Snoke is more powerful than either Rey or Ren.

Originally posted by Impediment
Snoke was a red herring. How many times do I have to post this?

Quan's the only one who can't accept this. Which is of no surprise.

Disney no doubt wants Rey to be the strongest due to their strong female agenda.

Originally posted by Robtard
Quan's the only one who can't accept this. Which is of no surprise. That is his opinion which is about as relevant as saying Batman beats Steppenwolf because he's more popular and has more screen time.

Originally posted by playa1258
Disney no doubt wants Rey to be the strongest due to their strong female agenda. You people really focus on the silliest of things. She was raped by Snoke with the force. Snoke is male and she is a female so there goes your theory.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is his opinion which is about as relevant as saying Batman beats Steppenwolf because he's more popular and has more screen time.

No, it's a fact Snoke is a throwaway villain, was there just so Kylo can become the main villain he needs to be. Nothing else.

Originally posted by Robtard
No, it's a fact Snoke is a throwaway villain, was there just so Kylo can become the main villain he needs to be. Nothing else. Vader is by far more popular than Palpatine. I guess Palpatine was the throwaway villain. Literally.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-29-2016/UNjHja.gif



Kylo is greater than Vader. Called it in both feats of evil, status, etc.

Snoke is the most powerful force user even seen on film.

Um, Palpatine had 6 films where he was the big bad villain behind it all; that's not a throwaway villain, that's being a main villain. Snoke came and went like a stinky fart.

Kylo is scared shitless he will never be on Vaders level.

Originally posted by Robtard
Um, Palpatine had 6 films where he was the big bad villain behind it all; that's not a throwaway villain, that's being a main villain. Snoke came and went like a stinky fart. Originally two films which were later explored due to popularity of the Ot's. Snoke wasn't born in Force Awakens. His superiority was cemented regardless of your whole he's in more movies pitiful argument. You once said McClane wins because he has survived more films. Biased arguments.

Snoke is more powerful regardless of screen time. Serkis confirmed it.

Originally posted by playa1258
Kylo is scared shitless he will never be on Vaders level. That is his motivation but he has clearly surpassed Vader. He's also more evil as I said years ago. You nitwits foolishly thought Vader the weakling was more evil. The guy was a snowflake over his mother and Padme.

Originally posted by playa1258
Kylo is scared shitless he will never be on Vaders level.

^Backed by the film

Quan love guys who fail.

Khan, Snoke all failures.

Originally posted by Robtard
^Backed by the film Internal motivation. Michael Jordan was always fearful of someone overtaking him which is what continued his greatness. You must be one content guy.

Originally posted by playa1258
Quan love guys who fail.

Khan, Snoke all failures. Luke confirmed the Jedi order is full of fail. They are the good guys.

Yoda also agrees it's their greatest teacher. I've said it for years he's the epitome of failure.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is his motivation but he has clearly surpassed Vader. He's also more evil as I said years ago. You nitwits foolishly thought Vader the weakling was more evil. The guy was a snowflake over his mother and Padme.

Did you miss the scene where Kylo cried and couldn't kill his mother?

Originally posted by Robtard
Did you miss the scene where Kylo cried and couldn't kill his mother? The other pilots pulled trigger the trigger. He didn't halt the attacks. He also ordered every member of the resistance annihilated by the films end. His mother was there. He wanted Luke killed over and over again. Overkill is putting it mildly based off his orders to the First Order in that scene.
Vader revered over his mother and balled like a ***** let alone possibly kill her himself. He turned away from the dark side for his son.

Originally posted by playa1258
Quan love guys who fail.

Khan, Snoke all failures.

Voldermort, Maul.....

Kylo and his emo rage fits crack me up. He isn't scary or terrifying at all.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Voldermort, Maul.....

Voldemort is the greatest wizard in Harry Potter. By Luke's own admission he's a failure who just wanted to die. He's a depressed loner. Maul never gave up vengeance to the bitter end. I guess you like the depressed dopes of fiction.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort is the greatest wizard in Harry Potter. By Luke's own admission he's a failure who just wanted to die. He's a depressed loner. Maul never gave up vengeance to the bitter end. I guess you like the depressed dopes of fiction.

Not according to your Voldermort vs Grindelwald thread.

Not according to the SW films and series.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Not according to your Voldermort vs Grindelwald thread.

Not according to the SW films and series.

Bias is a powerful thing I have to smite.

According to the films and confirmed by interviews Snoke is. You're free to resist reality just like old Donald.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bias is a powerful thing I have to smite.

According to the films and confirmed by interviews Snoke is. You're free to resist reality just like old Donald.

Knowledge and evidence are too.

We are talking about poor noobie Maul; stop changing the topic.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Knowledge and evidence are too.

We are talking about poor noobie Maul; stop changing the topic. I use evidence but you attempt to sidestep it.

Maul isn't the strongest with the force nor have I ever claimed he was. Maul would beat Dooku or Vader in a duel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I use evidence but you attempt to sidestep it.

Maul isn't the strongest with the force nor have I ever claimed he was. Maul would beat Dooku or Vader in a duel.

Really? Huh, last time i remember it was me bringing the evidence and you twisting it.

BAHAHAHAHAHA! Young and Old Kenobi disagree's with you!

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Really? Huh, last time i remember it was me bringing the evidence and you twisting it.

BAHAHAHAHAHA! Young and Old Kenobi disagree's with you! No, you ignore the same reasoning when applied back at you. Context, it always matters. Quit avoiding it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you ignore the same reasoning when applied back at you. Context, it always matters. Quit avoiding it.

Quit avoiding facts, evidence, logic and reason please.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Quit avoiding facts, evidence, logic and reason please. Such as ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Such as ?

Snoke not having enough feats to claim #1

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Snoke not having enough feats to claim #1 Feats don't make you king of the mountain comparisons do. Feats are typically exclusive and don't prove the other characters couldn't do them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Feats don't make you king of the mountain comparisons do. Feats are typically exclusive and don't prove the other characters couldn't do them.

So you then are basing Snoke as #1 on speculation.

Sorry but feats are better than speculation.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
1. Granted
2. Not really.
3. Denied.

The Dark Side is known for clouding the Light Side.

It is expected of any Sith Lord to be able to hide himself from the Jedi's

In fact, Sith's were believed to be extinct by the Jedi's for a millenium.

So isn't like Sidious is the only Sith to be able to hide himself.

Yoda is more powerful because:

1. He is faster and better skilled with the Light Saber.
2. His knowledge over the Force surpasses Sidious.
3. He defeated Sidious in the long term (He believed in Luke and trained him to defeat the Empire).

1.His speed is partly due to his size and what type of animal creature he is, not his strength in the force. He is equally skilled with the Light Saber as Sidious (stalemate for a long fight).

2. I disagree. Sidious can disguise himself as a force user and can see the future with greater detail than Yoda ever did.

3. Yoda did not defeat Sidious in any sense of the word. Especially in terms of using the force.

You are highly irrational here.

Originally posted by h1a8
1.His speed is partly due to his size and what type of animal creature he is, not his strength in the force. He is equally skilled with the Light Saber as Sidious (stalemate for a long fight).

2. I disagree. Sidious can disguise himself as a force user and can see the future with greater detail than Yoda ever did.

3. Yoda did not defeat Sidious in any sense of the word. Especially in terms of using the force.

You are highly irrational here.

1. There have been other Yoda types as Jedi before. Yet Yoda is still #1 Jedi.
So isnt only because of his alien type.

2.So why did he lose in the end then?

3. Nor did Sidious. Considering Sidious had the overall advantage throughout the battle it's obvious Yoda is better.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
So you then are basing Snoke as #1 on speculation.

Sorry but feats are better than speculation. False, since we see Snoke utterly dominate Rey with the force. Luke wasn't powerful enough to bulldoze her. That is an example. Serkis confirms the obvious. I've already explained how feats don't determine superiority in the same universe it's how they stack up against each other.

you never take context into consideration when you post your wild claims do you? Its very clear that Luke was playing with Rey and was surprised by her leap in aggression by grabbing the lightsaber... at no point in that "fight" was Luke in any danger... try again bud, with context this time

Originally posted by relentless1
you never take context into consideration when you post your wild claims do you? Its very clear that Luke was playing with Rey and was surprised by her leap in aggression by grabbing the lightsaber... at no point in that "fight" was Luke in any danger... try again bud, with context this time No, you are wrong. We see Ben already get the better of Luke. Rey wasn't trying to hurt him either. She pulled back but it's clear her power scared him. He even says so, kid. Quit ignoring the obvious and what words he uses or how these characters relate to each other.

Originally posted by Impediment
Honestly, I'm torn between Yoda and Palpatine.

Both showed tremendously keen feats of the Force.

Same, basically.

I don't think anyone else in the movies showed as much power as of yet, rather than just having a lot of potential.

Well when Yoda fought Palp he was already old as shit and weaker than in his prime, right?

Originally posted by Mindset
Well when Yoda fought Palp he was already old as shit and weaker than in his prime, right?

Yoda? Yeah by a long way.

I'd give Yoda the nod after some preworkout then.

Originally posted by quanchi112
False, since we see Snoke utterly dominate Rey with the force. Luke wasn't powerful enough to bulldoze her. That is an example. Serkis confirms the obvious. I've already explained how feats don't determine superiority in the same universe it's how they stack up against each other.

And just because you see her dominating Rey (Who is a force noob basically) he suddenly rises above Yoda and Sidious?

That is speculation my friend.

Luke.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
And just because you see her dominating Rey (Who is a force noob basically) he suddenly rises above Yoda and Sidious?

That is speculation my friend. This is speculative either way since we won't ever see Snoke vs. Yoda. We have never seen the utter and total domination of someone like Rey who was Kylo's equal in the force. Snoke explains her power rose to meet Kylo's so her experience is a moot point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is speculative either way since we won't ever see Snoke vs. Yoda. We have never seen the utter and total domination of someone like Rey who was Kylo's equal in the force. Snoke explains her power rose to meet Kylo's so her experience is a moot point.

No but based on feats and overall SW Knowledge you can draw a rational conclusion.

Yet she is unexperienced and non trained in the forced. So again, that feat doesnt back up your claim.

We've not seen Noob Rey match Kylo in a fair duel or in Force mastery.

Only her raw power is comparable. But she lacks skill and mastery.

IOW, just because Snoke can ragdoll Rey, doesn't mean he can also ragdoll Kylo. Though Snoke's TK is no doubt superior, and he obviously was overall superior to Kylo as of TFA and TLJ.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No but based on feats and overall SW Knowledge you can draw a rational conclusion.

Yet she is unexperienced and non trained in the forced. So again, that feat doesnt back up your claim. She has force power equal to Kylo the guy who woke up from a nap to defeat experienced Luke holding a lightsaber. We see Kylo can't overpower her and he defeated Luke prior to cutting himself off for the force.

Your argument just died.

She also put Luke on his ass with her skill.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
We've not seen Noob Rey match Kylo in a fair duel or in Force mastery.

Only her raw power is comparable. But she lacks skill and mastery.

IOW, just because Snoke can ragdoll Rey, doesn't mean he can also ragdoll Kylo. Though Snoke's TK is no doubt superior, and he obviously was overall superior to Kylo as of TFA and TLJ. We see Snoke clearly put him down when he rose to challenge him. Fl. Snoke is beyond reproach.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
We've not seen Noob Rey match Kylo in a fair duel or in Force mastery.

Only her raw power is comparable. But she lacks skill and mastery.

IOW, just because Snoke can ragdoll Rey, doesn't mean he can also ragdoll Kylo. Though Snoke's TK is no doubt superior, and he obviously was overall superior to Kylo as of TFA and TLJ.

Thanks Darth Thor.

Perhaps Quanchi can hear your words.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Thanks Darth Thor.

Perhaps Quanchi can hear your words. Kylo's force power was Rey's equal and since he can ragdoll his equal in terms of the force power logic dictates he does the same to Kylo if he wants to. Logic, sport.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kylo's force power was Rey's equal and since he can ragdoll his equal in terms of the force power logic dictates he does the same to Kylo if he wants to. Logic, sport.

No. It means Rey has the same potential as Kylo. Kylo is better trained than Rey in the force, so you cant assume that.

Also, Kylo isnt that strong in the force to put Snoke near Yoda or Sidious.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
No. It means Rey has the same potential as Kylo. Kylo is better trained than Rey in the force, so you cant assume that.

Also, Kylo isnt that strong in the force to put Snoke near Yoda or Sidious. We see them stalemate in the force for possession of the lightsaber. Kylo is more skilled with a lightsaber but in terms of the force they are equal. Yin to his yang.

Kylo is strong enough as is Rey to scare Luke. Luke thinks so I suggest rethinking your stance. The film tells us.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see them stalemate in the force for possession of the lightsaber. Kylo is more skilled with a lightsaber but in terms of the force they are equal. Yin to his yang.

Kylo is strong enough as is Rey to scare Luke. Luke thinks so I suggest rethinking your stance. The film tells us.

Because she has the potential.

Doesnt mean she is trained in the force nor that she can resist a Siths power.

To fear of his actions not his power. To fear that he would turn into the Dadk side not that he would beat him.

Luke is far above Kylo's power level, clearly depicted in the movie.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Because she has the potential.

Doesnt mean she is trained in the force nor that she can resist a Siths power.

To fear of his actions not his power. To fear that he would turn into the Dadk side not that he would beat him.

Luke is far above Kylo's power level, clearly depicted in the movie. We see that's the force power she has in that instance despite her lack of training. Snoke explains she rose in power to balance out the darkness in Kylo.

His says raw strength which means power. For ****s sake I wish you understand what words meant.

I agree Luke is more powerful than Kylo but Ben has enough power to best him. He already did so. Anakin was more powerful than Kenobi but still lost to him in rots.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see that's the force power she has in that instance despite her lack of training. Snoke explains she rose in power to balance out the darkness in Kylo.

His says raw strength which means power. For ****s sake I wish you understand what words meant.

I agree Luke is more powerful than Kylo but Ben has enough power to best him. He already did so. Anakin was more powerful than Kenobi but still lost to him in rots.

Again, she aint trained which puts her at a disadvantage.

I wish you knew about SW.

Again Quanchi, support your idol, we all know your idols will always be number 1.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Again, she aint trained which puts her at a disadvantage.

I wish you knew about SW.

Again Quanchi, support your idol, we all know your idols will always be number 1. Again Kylo trained yet couldn't beat her in force power. Quit repeating yourself.

I wish you understood words.


I wish you'd try to grow.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again Kylo trained yet couldn't beat her in force power. Quit repeating yourself.

I wish you understood words.


I wish you'd try to grow.

Because they are equal in power.

Which again doesnt prove anything. Both Kylo and Rey are nothing compared to what Sidious or Yoda have faced.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Because they are equal in power.

Which again doesnt prove anything. Both Kylo and Rey are nothing compared to what Sidious or Yoda have faced. Your whole point was about her lack of training with regards to force power. Kylo has much more training but can't overpower her with his force power because she's powerful.

Speculation.

Sidious was decimated by Windu who is weaker than he is in a duel.

NT>OT.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your whole point was about her lack of training with regards to force power. Kylo has much more training but can't overpower her with his force power because she's powerful.

Speculation.

Sidious was decimated by Windu who is weaker than he is in a duel.

NT>OT.

Yeah. Doesnt mean a Jedi/Sith or a Master Jedi/Sith Lord much less the Best Master Jedi/Sith Lord will be overwhelmed.

What!?

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Yeah. Doesnt mean a Jedi/Sith or a Master Jedi/Sith Lord much less the Best Master Jedi/Sith Lord will be overwhelmed.

What!? Ben beat Luke with his tk.

Luke was a master.



Windu beat the utter shit out of Palpatine.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ben beat Luke with his tk.

Luke was a master.



Windu beat the utter shit out of Palpatine.

A distracted/conflicted/hesitant/clouded Luke. Sorry but not enough.

Windu is regarded as one of the best saber duelists ever! Plus his fighting technique was specifically for defeating Siths.

Windu would one shot Kylo.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
A distracted/conflicted/hesitant/clouded Luke. Sorry but not enough.

Windu is regarded as one of the best saber duelists ever! Plus his fighting technique was specifically for defeating Siths.

Windu would one shot Kylo. You just said tk can't beat a master. I proved you wrong and you offer more excuses. He woke up and used his powers to defeat Luke.

Windu is superior to Palpatine with a saber.

Nah, speculation. Windu did beat Palpatine which is a fact.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You just said tk can't beat a master. I proved you wrong and you offer more excuses. He woke up and used his powers to defeat Luke.

Windu is superior to Palpatine with a saber.

Nah, speculation. Windu did beat Palpatine which is a fact.



Where did i said that? You only prove ignorance.

Are you obmitting the scene where Luke shouted , "Nooooo Kylo", whilst Kylo used TK bring down the roof?

Luke wadnt fighting Kylo. He was conflicted and trying to avoid the fight.

Your feat is rebuked!!!

Windu would beat Kylo far far far easier.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Where did i said that? You only prove ignorance.

Are you obmitting the scene where Luke shouted , "Nooooo Kylo", whilst Kylo used TK bring down the roof?

Luke wadnt fighting Kylo. He was conflicted and trying to avoid the fight.

Your feat is rebuked!!!

Windu would beat Kylo far far far easier. I am saying Luke put himself in the situation and clearly lost. He has the same powers what's wrong with him ?

Luke felt shame but clearly lost. Snoke put Kylo down the moment he made his intentions clear.

Iyo but it isn't a fact. Speculation.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am saying Luke put himself in the situation and clearly lost. He has the same powers what's wrong with him ?

Luke felt shame but clearly lost. Snoke put Kylo down the moment he made his intentions clear.

Iyo but it isn't a fact. Speculation.

Luke changed his mind in the last minute which caused him to lose.

Not because Kylo is superior to Luke. Kylo is inferior to Luke by far.

Reasonable speculation

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Luke changed his mind in the last minute which caused him to lose.

Not because Kylo is superior to Luke. Kylo is inferior to Luke by far.

Reasonable speculation He was still able to defend himself. It's quite cowardly to attack someone while they are sleeping.

Kylo still won and you said no one with their power could do so to a master. You're wrong.


Nah.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was still able to defend himself. It's quite cowardly to attack someone while they are sleeping.

Kylo still won and you said no one with their power could do so to a master. You're wrong.


Nah.

He wasnt focused on defeating Kylo but rather in his actions.

In a combat, not in an emotional dispute.

Luke, Yoda and Sidious all on par in the votes (6 each atm). Nice

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Luke, Yoda and Sidious all on par in the votes (6 each atm). Nice

Expected. They are the big guns ATM.

You know, i was thinking. Perharps Yoda has the most powerful force feat. Even while dead he was able to use the force to create a lightning to burn the Jedi Tree.

Just to become a Force Ghost you require an extremely close connection with the Force! Yoda was able to transcend even further with that feat.

Just imagine if Yoda would have wanted that lightning to fall on someone...

I think this is a difficult question to answer.

I'm going to say Luke, Palpatine or Yoda, but it may very well be Snoke, but we'll probably never know because we didn't really see much of him and have no idea how powerful he really was. His greatest feat was, what, dicking around with Rey? There's just not a lot of answers with Snoke.

I guess I'll say Luke because of his force projection stuff at the end of TLJ is pretty unprecedented.

Originally posted by BackFire
I think this is a difficult question to answer.

I'm going to say Luke, Palpatine or Yoda, but it may very well be Snoke, but we'll probably never know because we didn't really see much of him and have no idea how powerful he really was. His greatest feat was, what, dicking around with Rey? There's just not a lot of answers with Snoke.

I guess I'll say Luke because of his force projection stuff at the end of TLJ is pretty unprecedented.

Snoke is not dead. He probably just tricked everyone just like Luke tricked Kylo.

But we will never know until Ep9.

In a close contest Luke gets the nod for authorial intent and canonical potential (prime Luke should be more powerful than Yoda or Sidious).

Luke SHOULD have been the most powerful, and canonically maybe he is with projecting himself over such a large distance, but it's still really disappointing that he's not closing black holes with his mind and moving at Flash level speed like was in the old EU.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Luke SHOULD have been the most powerful, and canonically maybe he is with projecting himself over such a large distance, but it's still really disappointing that he's not closing black holes with his mind and moving at Flash level speed like was in the old EU.

Agree.

Yeah that projection was another level shit haha.

But what Yoda did with tha tree although being dead means he got the strongest connection with the Force.

Yoda's relationship with the Force is one that has no equal.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Agree.

Yeah that projection was another level shit haha.

But what Yoda did with tha tree although being dead means he got the strongest connection with the Force.

Yoda's relationship with the Force is one that has no equal.

Not sure if blowing up a hut is as impressive as Luke's projection. Well, I'm pretty sure it's not lol.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Not sure if blowing up a hut is as impressive as Luke's projection. Well, I'm pretty sure it's not lol.

It is for a Force Ghost.

Only the closest Jedi to the force get to become a Force Ghost! Now being able to alter the world of the Living is.....The Force clearly likes Yoda, that's what it means.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He wasnt focused on defeating Kylo but rather in his actions.

In a combat, not in an emotional dispute. He had his saber armed and had his powers. Man the **** up, Luke.


Snoke doesn't even need a lightsaber to make Kylo back the **** down.

1. Snoke
2. Luke

Palpatine. Disney kinda back handed Luke. Shoulda been Luke.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He had his saber armed and had his powers. Man the **** up, Luke.


Snoke doesn't even need a lightsaber to make Kylo back the **** down.

He retracted himself from killing him.

I remind you Kylo did saber down Snoke in the end!

Originally posted by meep-meep
Palpatine. Disney kinda back handed Luke. Shoulda been Luke. You can't even make the claim Palpatine is stronger than Yoda so please try using some objectivity.

It's obviously Snoke but Sidious is Yoda's equal so he can't even stand on the top of the mountain if you foolishly believe he's up there.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He retracted himself from killing him.

I remind you Kylo did saber down Snoke in the end! He was asleep but still had his saber and his powers to defend himself.

When his guard was down. We see what happens when Kylo made a direct action to harm Snoke without him reveling in his victory over Rey and discerning Luke's location.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was asleep but still had his saber and his powers to defend himself.

When his guard was down. We see what happens when Kylo made a direct action to harm Snoke without him reveling in his victory over Rey and discerning Luke's location.

He was a distracted/trouble hearted Jedi. Focused on Kylo's sake rather than on fighting him. Your feat is worthless.

Doesnt matter. Kylo proof to be able to outsmart Snoke. Sidious' is clearly well smarter.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
He was a distracted/trouble hearted Jedi. Focused on Kylo's sake rather than on fighting him. Your feat is worthless.

Doesnt matter. Kylo proof to be able to outsmart Snoke. Sidious' is clearly well smarter. Nah, he has time to defend himself and his saber was drawn.

Vader didn't need to plot to kill Vader he just had to use one arm, no force, and no saber to kill him. Kylo can't directly challenge Snoke. Vader needed one arm to kill the girly man.

Snoke destroys Sidious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah, he has time to defend himself and his saber was drawn.

Vader didn't need to plot to kill Vader he just had to use one arm, no force, and no saber to kill him. Kylo can't directly challenge Snoke. Vader needed one arm to kill the girly man.

Snoke destroys Sidious.

Doesnt change the facts.

Yeah, Only and Only after Sidious was killing Vader's son. Isnt like Vader could ever or would ever treason Sidious for anything less.

Kylo on the other hand just treasoned Snoke because he got tired of the old fool!

I admit you are trying hard, but you are supporting the wrong character.

Just voted for Sidious.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Doesnt change the facts.

Yeah, Only and Only after Sidious was killing Vader's son. Isnt like Vader could ever or would ever treason Sidious for anything less.

Kylo on the other hand just treasoned Snoke because he got tired of the old fool!

I admit you are trying hard, but you are supporting the wrong character. You are right Luke lost which is a fact in a fair fight.

Vader plotted his demise for years. He was redeemed in the moment and overpowered and killed Sidious with one arm, no weapon, and no force application. Pathetic.

Kylo did so for selfish reasons at a time with Snoke dropping his guard in a quicker attack with the force and a lightsaber. Sidious was unable to stop a burnt guy in a suit highly suceptible to fl.

Snoke wins. You do not grasp the obvious as per the norm.

If we go by powerscaling / narrative, it's clearly Luke Skywalker given his stated potential and time to realize it. We know that he's already a match for Vader by RotJ and he had been training for like a year or two, mostly on his own. By the time he was in his prime (either by TLJ or before his exile) he'd definitely have surpassed Palpatine.

Going by feats, it's either Darth Sidious or Luke Skywalker depending on how impressive you think Luke's final trick in TLJ was.

Of course, going purely by feats is kind of silly unless if you think Black Widow > Thanos, so holistically it seems pretty clear that Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Force user we've seen in canon.

Nah, it's clearly Snoke since Luke cut himself off the force for years, used s force nexus for his final feat which ultimately killed him. He also looked inferior in comparing both Luke and Snoke against Rey and Ben. Snoke's complete and utter domination of Rey in force power is unlike anything we have ever seen in the Star Wars mythos. Luke confirms how strong she is via her force power in the film.


Snoke
Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by The Ellimist
If we go by powerscaling / narrative, it's clearly Luke Skywalker given his stated potential and time to realize it. We know that he's already a match for Vader by RotJ and he had been training for like a year or two, mostly on his own. By the time he was in his prime (either by TLJ or before his exile) he'd definitely have surpassed Palpatine.

Going by feats, it's either Darth Sidious or Luke Skywalker depending on how impressive you think Luke's final trick in TLJ was.

Of course, going purely by feats is kind of silly unless if you think Black Widow > Thanos, so holistically it seems pretty clear that Luke Skywalker is the most powerful Force user we've seen in canon.

I agree.

Sidious > Yoda, though Yoda was probably past his prime at that point.

Luke isn't a factor, he was a weakling in TLJ.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Sidious > Yoda, though Yoda was probably past his prime at that point.

Luke isn't a factor, he was a weakling in TLJ. False, we see a virtual stalemate in force power. Sidious came out on top due to his positioning but force power they are even Steven.

No, he isn't. You are just butthurt and a fanboy. I hope you cried after watching the film.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Sidious > Yoda, though Yoda was probably past his prime at that point.

Luke isn't a factor, he was a weakling in TLJ.

Naah Yoda>Sidious.

Originally posted by Josh_Alexander
Naah Yoda>Sidious.

Sidious won.

Originally posted by quanchi112
False, we see a virtual stalemate in force power. Sidious came out on top due to his positioning but force power they are even Steven.

No, he isn't. You are just butthurt and a fanboy. I hope you cried after watching the film.

Look at Yoda's face when Sidious blasts him. He was visibly in pain. He couldn't hold Sidious' lightning for long, so he resorted to a hail mary, which failed.

I'm not you, I don't cry like a little girl. Luke's only feat in the movie was weak af.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Sidious won.



Look at Yoda's face when Sidious blasts him. He was visibly in pain. He couldn't hold Sidious' lightning for long, so he resorted to a hail mary, which failed.

I'm not you, I don't cry like a little girl. Luke's only feat in the movie was weak af.

He didnt won. Yoda felt from the pot due to the explosion. I remember Sidious in pain before the explosion occured.

Also, Sidious had the advantage due to the terrain. Yoda's method of combat is weak in close terrains.

With more time and space Yoda would have won.