Better Movie ? TFA or TLJ
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An_Sock
IMO For all its faults, TFA at least introduced a shroud of mystery that left many speculating about the story's direction. What was Rey's lightsaber vision all about? Why the **** did Luke go into hiding? Who are Rey's parents? How did Snoke and the First Order come into power?
This movie took a shit on all of those questions, and an even bigger shit on Luke Skywalker.
At this point, there is no need for a resistance. Emo Kylo and Ginger ***** will destroy the First Order all on their own through their incompetence and emotional instability. All those empowered lesbians running the rebellion resistance show can go buy themselves a large tub of popcorn (extra butter, of course), find a nice cozy couch, and enjoy the shit show as Luke's ghost causes Kylo to go insane and murder half his army.
Rey's force powers will grow so strong that she'll start force-smashing imperial ships into little balls and toss them into the remaining destroyers. Is there anything she can't do? And to think, her parents were a couple of white trash degenerates who sold her into slavery for a little extra beer money.
Bo and Finn can continue ****ing things up in unnecessary subplots that serve one purpose: to show that bitter, cat-loving, purple-haired, middle-aged harpies make the best leaders.
An_Sock
Also Carrie Fisher is a good PSA on why you shouldn't long term date chicks who smoke. That voice was so annoying.
Kurk
TLJ was the better movie simply for being somewhat original and having the balls to do what they did. Sure, they may have gone a little overboard with the plot-twists, but it wasn't predictable. It kept me on the edge of my seat for a good time. There was some filler that could've been left out, but it's still the better movie.
quanchi112
The Last Jedi is the superior film. Very excited for Johnson to see what Johnson comes up with for the trilogy. I am also glad Abrams will be the one to conclude the trilogy. Both of these guys are great directors.
Lord Lucien
Originally posted by quanchi112
The Last Jedi is the superior film. Very excited for Johnson to see what Johnson comes up with for the trilogy. I am also glad Abrams will be the one to conclude the trilogy. Both of these guys are great directors.
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Lord Stark
TLJ. For all its faults tried to be original unlike TFA which tried desperately hard to reset the status quo.
The_Tempest
TLJ. For all its faults, it dared to be different (for the most part). And most of its flaws owe to a shitty premise set up by TFA.
Emperordmb
The problem with Luke in TLJ was set up by TFA so that doesn't really factor into my comparison. As for the faults unique TLJ's storyline with Finn and Rose was pointless to the plot and character development, Rose was cringe, etc.
As far as their use of nostalgia goes, TLJ was better. TFA was a beat for beat retelling of ANH where the most marked difference I could think of was the complexity of Kylo Ren as a character... which not by coincidence was probably my favorite thing about TFA. TLJ on the other hand I feel more appropriately integrated nostalgia, it had scenes and plot lines that obviously mirrored ESB and ROTJ, however it didn't bug me in the same way because they took a lot of those things in different directions in a rather suspenseful way that actually kept me on the edge of my seat in the theater. TFA felt like it was playing it safe and relying too much on rehashing the OT, whereas TLJ felt like it was actually incorporating that same nostalgia while at the same time taking things in different directions.
As far as Rey goes, TLJ handled her better. In TFA she came off much more Mary Sueish basically succeeding at every thing she tried. Now in TLJ I won't deny that her power level doesn't make much sense (even if she's been inculcated to counter Kylo he still has training on her so she shouldn't be that close to him), however she gets humbled more sufficiently in TLJ with Luke calling her on her bullshit (OH YOU CAN FEEL IT YOU MUST BE REALLY POWERFUL), her own decisions getting her captured, and her failing to convert Kylo. Additionally her character itself was more compelling in TLJ than TFA because she had Kylo serve as a foil to her own character in a way I thought worked better for her than anything in TFA did.
As far as Kylo goes (who as a story element was my favorite part of TLJ), I liked the evolution of his character from a fanboy towards someone more seriously trying to be their own man, from his smashing of the mask after Snoke told him to take that ridiculous thing off to his betrayal of Snoke. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to, it's the only way for you to become what you were meant to be" indeed. To that end Kylo's still conflicted but it's more matured and reconciled than what we saw in TFA with his dark side seizing control of the First Order and his more sentimental side wanting Rey alongside him, two things that are in obvious conflict but don't speak to nearly the same irreconcilable rend within him in TFA, and to this end Rey as a foil to Kylo again worked for this movie. IF they handle this right this could be a very effective transition into Supreme Leader Kylo in Episode IX.
Now as far as Luke goes... I did not like Luke pussying out, that's a direction for the character I fundamentally disagree with, but let's look at how TLJ built on the premise established by TFA for Luke. TFA speaks to the notion that Luke pussied out just because Kylo destroyed his order, whereas in TLJ Luke speaks to some partially valid philosophical critiques of the Jedi, and it's revealed that he also ran because he activated his blade on Kylo. I'm still not satisfied by Luke's self-exile, but what's presented as the reasoning for it in TLJ has a whole hell of a lot more depth and justification to it than what we were initially given in TFA. Then of course lastly Luke got a heroic death, died with a W instead of an L, saved the resistance, put the fear of God in the First Order, spoke to Kylo's weakness, reconciled with Leia, and inspired people across the Galaxy. Then of course Mark Hamill's acting certainly helped the portrayal of Luke. Still not a fan of the direction Luke was taken in, which is endemic to both TFA and TLJ, but TLJ certainly did more to salvage it than the premise TFA set up.
As far as the acting goes, again I'd give it to TLJ. Kylo and especially Rey worked better as foils to each other, and TLJ was graced with the acting of Mark Hamill and with the acting of Andy Serkis as Snoke (to an extent not seen in TFA). Then of course Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia had more of a presence in this movie, as opposed to her two scenes with Han Solo and her just kinda being a part of the crowd in the control room. Harrison Ford was a great credit to TFA and I thought he slipped into the role of an older Han Solo very well, but I think this is outweighed by the other things I mentioned.
As far as the fight scenes go, TLJ wins this one for me. The fight scene highlight of TFA was the snowy woods fight, which first had Kylo dicking around with Poe then Rey pulling some bullshit out of her ass and beating Kylo, and the extent of the emotional and thematic significance of that fight boils down to "I gotta protect Rey!" "TRAITOR!" "You're a monster!" I thought this was definitely outweighed by the highlight in TLJ of the Praetorian guard fight with Rey and Kylo's teamup given the actual connection between the characters and turning point for the plot at this point. Likewise with Luke and Ren, there was much more gravitas to that fight, much more emotional and thematic stakes, and some pretty kewl lighting and surrounding environment and shit.
As far as the humor goes, I actually found TLJ rather humorous. I really enjoyed Luke's dry wit in this movie from dicking around with Rey with the leaf, to brushing off his shoulder after the AT-AT barrage, to his quips to Kylo. There were also some other moments, such as #putonatowel, some of the slapstick humor such as Kylo throwing around Hux and Snoke smacking Rey with the lightsaber hilt (call me lowbrow or something idgaf). TFA did have it's moments with the Stormtroopers ****ing off when Ren was destroying shit and "THAT'S NOT HOW THE FORCE WORKS" but overall I found TLJ funnier.
As far as the incorporation of the droid duo that's been in every SW movie so far, I prefered TLJ's inclusion here. Threepio had some pretty good moments "I will not be a part of the mutiny" and "Wipe that worried look off your face." For me though, it's really R2 that this movie did better on. R2 popping up at the end of TFA doesn't at all compare to his reunion with Luke in TLJ which put a stupid grin on my face for their entire interaction, from Luke getting all wide-eyed seeing R2 to the hologram thing.
The conflict within the First Order was also something I preferred in TLJ. This is similar to the point I made in my comparison between Kylo and Hux's inconsequential bickering in TFA to Tarkin and Krennic's rivalry with actual stakes in R1, which was obviously more compelling in R1. In TLJ, the conflict within the First Order between Kylo, Snoke, and Hux actually has stakes and consequences, which was something more appreciable than what we saw in TFA.
Now to be fair, I did like Poe more in TFA. He was really charismatic in TFA, and I didn't like how TLJ intentionally undermined his character just to be preachy. Also to be fair... **** the Finn Rose storyline, it was ultimately inconsequential to the plot, and some of Rose's shit made me cringe.
There are definitely flaws TLJ has that TFA doesn't share, but TLJ is more effectively it's own story than TFA was, satisfyingly develops some crucial characters from TFA, and does damage control on Luke from the point TFA left him at.
Overall I simply found TLJ the better of the two movies.
Zenwolf
I'm kinda indifferent to both movies, they both have their pros and cons so I can't really say which I like between the two.
UCanShootMyNova
TFA gave us nothing ( maintained the status quo ).
TLJ gave us nothing but disappointment ( had more interesting moments because it actually did something but those actions pretty much ****ed up any possible path forward ).
Emperordmb
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
TFA gave us nothing ( maintained the status quo ).
You mean aside from completely undermining the outcome of the OT? And establishing that Luke ****ed off into exile like a *****?
UCanShootMyNova
Yep. I was being generous.
Zenwolf
If I really was forced to choose though, I guess....TLJ? The guard fight was pretty nice and I liked those crystal canines, I felt it dragged on a little long with the casino part and the scenes with the capital ships weren't too interesting aside from Poe trying to mutiny, the last part of the movie was the best.
Rebel95
TFA kept me interested through the whole movie, TLJ dragged on a lot with the whole casino planet and space standoff and I started to lose interest. But the last hour or so of TLJ was great, especially the Snoke/Kylo/Rey scene and praetorian guard fight.
Zenwolf
Originally posted by Rebel95
TFA kept me interested through the whole movie, TLJ dragged on a lot with the whole casino planet and space standoff and I started to lose interest. But the last hour or so of TLJ was great, especially the Snoke/Kylo/Rey scene and praetorian guard fight.
You know it was brought to my attention with something.
You know how the FO was unable to catch the Resistance cruiser even as it was low on fuel?
Yet we see in ANH, a CR90 Corvette cruiser being chased down by an ISD.
The Dreadnought and Resistance cruiser were going in a straight line and it is fact that the Dreadnought when putting power to the engines can go faster than a FO/TIE Fighter in a straight line. Yet they didn't...
That isn't even the worst of it though, the FO was just so terrible even when they could have ended the Resistance in a number of ways.
quanchi112
Snoke has the best voice in Star Wars. Hands down. Every scene he was involved in was riveting.
Kurk
Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke has the best voice in Star Wars. Hands down. Every scene he was involved in was riveting. Snoke's voice immediately reminded me of this scene from TCW: https://youtu.be/Ktt0SFsoYDA?t=12s
But yeah, his voice is pretty sweet. I just wish it was a tad lower, closer to how it was in TFA.
quanchi112
Originally posted by Kurk
Snoke's voice immediately reminded me of this scene from TCW: https://youtu.be/Ktt0SFsoYDA?t=12s
But yeah, his voice is pretty sweet. I just wish it was a tad lower, closer to how it was in TFA. Andy Serkis is lightning in a bottle. The manner in which he mocked Ben and later Rey was truly worthy of my hall of fame. Only four film characters fit into this elite group.
Emperordmb
Originally posted by quanchi112
Andy Serkis is lightning in a bottle. The manner in which he mocked Ben and later Rey was truly worthy of my hall of fame. Only four film characters fit into this elite group.
Who are the other three?
quanchi112
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Who are the other three? Thanos, Voldemort, Khan (Kelvin version only), and now Snoke.
Emperordmb
Here's the real question Quan... Khan vs Snoke in a fight?
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