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Why?

What are your reasonings?

Because:

1.) it was original
2.) it was unpredictable and bold
3.) the SJW agenda didn't feel forced


It was a good film relative to TFA. It's nothing special by itself, but then again a lot of people think SW movies are stupid to begin with.

Originally posted by Kurk
Because:

1.) it was original
2.) it was unpredictable and bold
3.) the SJW agenda didn't feel forced


It was a good film relative to TFA. It's nothing special by itself, but then again a lot of people think SW movies are stupid to begin with.

1. no it was ROTJ and ESB crammed into one.
2.unpredictable ain't always a good thing, especially when they **** things so bad.
3. you are joking, they spent 30 minutes bitching about capitalism, and how it's bad. An having a Purple head Female in charge, and being right, while Poe was wrong. And That Rose *****, a literal diversity hire. Also Leia supermaning back into the ship, when she didn't pursue a career as a jedi master, Rey ****ING learning another to contend with KYLO REN, in like One of two training sessions. It was forced and ruined, several moments that had so much more potential..

I think TLJ was a mixture of some of the best and worst moments I've ever seen in film.

This is a retarded criticism. Poe is a young hotshot pilot who at the start lost half their fleet due to his need to bring down a dreadnought. If the Admiral was a man he'd react the same goddamned way. Poe was acting perfectly within character, and any ranking officer would berate him for his frankly insubordinate behavior.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
This is a retarded criticism. Poe is a young hotshot pilot who at the start lost half their fleet due to his need to bring down a dreadnought. If the Admiral was a man he'd react the same goddamned way. Poe was acting perfectly within character, and any ranking officer would berate him for his frankly insubordinate behavior.

Dude, she didn't tell him her plan, which played a role in his subordination. I'm fine with the demotion, but not informing him was stupid, and plot made him go and waste 30 minutes of the movie. Dude they literally shafted Admiral Ahkbar, and established character, and had him killed off randomly, do you realise how much better the scene would be if Ahkbar replaced that force Purple hair'd female, when she crashed they ship, it would hold so much more emotion, and be flat out better.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Dude, she didn't tell him her plan, which played a role in his subordination. I'm fine with the demotion, but not informing him was stupid, and plot made him go and waste 30 minutes of the movie. Dude they literally shafted Admiral Ahkbar, and established character, and had him killed off randomly, do you realise how much better the scene would be if Ahkbar replaced that force Purple hair'd female, when she crashed they ship, it would hold so much more emotion, and be flat out better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Bauersfeld

Died: April 3, 2016 (aged 93)

Originally posted by Lord Stark
This is a retarded criticism. Poe is a young hotshot pilot who at the start lost half their fleet due to his need to bring down a dreadnought. If the Admiral was a man he'd react the same goddamned way. Poe was acting perfectly within character, and any ranking officer would berate him for his frankly insubordinate ]behavior.

It's not about logic dude. Snowflake bigots got triggered hard by a man getting humbled by a woman superior and all the other percieved "SJW propaganda" in the film.

These people are generally scum and not worth trying to reason with.

But she had pink hair.

Also, capitalism = child slavery, animal abuse and war profiteering?

Ackbar crashing the ship would have been epic if the voice actor were alive, yeah. Granted the whole scene was a massive plot hole but oh well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's not about logic dude. Snowflake bigots got triggered hard by a man getting humbled by a woman superior and all the other percieved "SJW propaganda" in the film.

These people are generally scum and not worth trying to reason with.

Dude, I would not give a shit if it were leia, but she was randomly pulled out of their ass. It's when they force feed it into the narrative of the films, is when I get pissed.

The audience would instantly trust Ackbar though, it'd be obvious he had a good plan. The plot would fall apart in that case imo.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Dude, she didn't tell him her plan, which played a role in his subordination. I'm fine with the demotion, but not informing him was stupid, and plot made him go and waste 30 minutes of the movie. Dude they literally shafted Admiral Ahkbar, and established character, and had him killed off randomly, do you realise how much better the scene would be if Ahkbar replaced that force Purple hair'd female, when she crashed they ship, it would hold so much more emotion, and be flat out better.

Which is how military and paramilitary organizations ****ing work. An Admiral is by no means obligated to share the details of a plan with a Commander, especially one who was just ****ing demoted by as previous commanding officer's last order.

I agree it would have been awesome if Ackbar were in that role, but the actor died (before filming I think). It seemed a bit more appropriate not to overuse the role when he died so recently.

I'm sure they could of found a replacement voice actor for him.
Bulma from the dragonball series Is getting a new one.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The audience would instantly trust Ackbar though, it'd be obvious he had a good plan. The plot would fall apart in that case imo.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Which is how military and paramilitary organizations ****ing work. An Admiral is by no means obligated to share the details of a plan with a Commander, especially one who was just ****ing demoted by as previous commanding officer's last order.

I agree it would have been awesome if Ackbar were in that role, but the actor died (before filming I think). It seemed a bit more appropriate not to overuse the role when he died so recently.

You do see the contradiction, with Leia. Carrie Fisher.

That admiral, should of known Poe couldn't sit still, hence why he was demoted. She should of at least took actions to prevent Poe from doing something. Or simply tell him to reassure him, considering he has massive influence within the Resistance.
it would of been more beneficial than less to tell him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The audience would instantly trust Ackbar though, it'd be obvious he had a good plan. The plot would fall apart in that case imo.

Shows what a shit plot it was.

Ackbar kamikazing into the ship would've been perfect when you account for his name

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4QhrUQ9dBg

Regarding the FO vs. Resistance plot line, are we actually supposed to believe that the New Republic, which controlled a plurality of the galaxy with its own galactic government, military, police force, etc., was reduced to three hundred or so combatants in the course of a few days of its capital being taken out?

To put that in perspective, there were more holdouts loyal to France, a single country, after the start of the second World War than to the New Republic in an entire galaxy of hundreds of billions of star systems. Heck, there are more than 300 neo-nazis in a single U.S. state today!

Like seriously it kind of makes me laugh.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Regarding the FO vs. Resistance plot line, are we actually supposed to believe that the New Republic, which controlled a plurality of the galaxy with its own galactic government, military, police force, etc., was reduced to three hundred or so combatants in the course of a few days of its capital being taken out?

To put that in perspective, there were more holdouts loyal to France, a single country, after the start of the second World War than to the New Republic in an entire galaxy of hundreds of billions of star systems. Heck, there are more than 300 neo-nazis in a single U.S. state today!

Like seriously it kind of makes me laugh.
Is it that hard to believe, though? In Episodes I and II, it's apparent the Galactic Republic has no army besides the Jedi.

With the Military Disarmament Act, the existing fleet at the end of the Battle of Jakku was cut by 90%.

Frankly, the fleet seen in Episode 7 seems to be of larger or at least comparable scale to the Galactic Republic's before the clone army.

Anyway, the remaining forces of the treaty were either sent to the capital world or training the local armed forces of Republic member worlds.

The latter part is implicitly mentioned in the crawl when it states the First Order is deploying its legions to seize military control.

It's apparent that all of the First Order resources not shown in the D'Qar / Crait battles are being devoted to combat these hold-out Republic worlds.

That being said, I'd say it's safe to assume the First Order was victorious in the vast majority of the battles.

And the fact that the republic had the majority of their forces stacked in one star System, like how stupid are they.

(Elm, I made a post on the previous page, FWI).
Originally posted by Haschwalth
And the fact that the republic had the majority of their forces stacked in one star System, like how stupid are they.
I don't think they were expecting a Death Star 3.0.

nm

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
(Elm, I made a post on the previous page, FWI).

I don't think they were expecting a Death Star 3.0.

Still retarded. The point of a navy is to project power, patrol the galaxy, counter piracy, ect.

+ Are you serious they don't have additional bases aside from Hosnian system? The United States navy having more bases than a galactic organization that at the very least spans thousands of star systems across ~half the galaxy is ludicrous.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
(Elm, I made a post on the previous page, FWI).

I don't think they were expecting a Death Star 3.0.
So the bulk of their force ignore 99% of other other star systems under threat.......

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Is it that hard to believe, though? In Episodes I and II, it's apparent the Galactic Republic has no army besides the Jedi.

They had a fleet though, and far more than 300 allies (like a random planet being invaded in TCW would regularly show up with more than 300 to fight alongside the Jedi).

Even if they had no army you'd expect more than 300 to fight just by sheer numbers. There are more than 300 people fighting the US military in the Middle East and the New Republic is like 100000000 times larger.



10% of a galactic army is still larger than what we see in The Force Awakens, which is smaller than the Taliban.



Is it? The Trade Federation in TPM seemed to believe that the Republic fleet could crush it if it wanted to, and they had a pretty large fleet themselves.



I guess it's possible there are more Rebels off-screen but everyone acts as though Leia's forces are all that's left, because the New Republic had fewer holdouts than Saddam Hussein.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
You do see the contradiction, with Leia. Carrie Fisher.

That admiral, should of known Poe couldn't sit still, hence why he was demoted. She should of at least took actions to prevent Poe from doing something. Or simply tell him to reassure him, considering he has massive influence within the Resistance.
it would of been more beneficial than less to tell him.

That's not how the military works. Like this isn't a merry band of robbers, its a military organization with a very rigid command structure. Holdo doesn't personally know Poe, she knows he's insubordinate and they are in crisis mode (she was right btw considering as soon as Poe learned of their strategy he leaked it to lower ranking officers who in turn got that info leaked to the Imperial High Command on the Supremacy) so yeah keeping their plans on a need to know basis makes sense. And the reason was demonstrated hours later when hundreds of Resistance members were obliterated by the First Order's fleet.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The audience would instantly trust Ackbar though, it'd be obvious he had a good plan. The plot would fall apart in that case imo.

Also this.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
They had a fleet though

Did they?



The fleet we see in Episode 7 is at least larger than the Rebellion fleet seen on Endor, if you ask me.



I honestly got the opposite impression - that the Trade Federation felt confident doing this because the Republic was helpless to stop them.

The only worries of the Trade Federation, that I can recall, is that the Republic might "revoke their trade franchise."



The New Republic and the Resistance are two separate entities. The soldiers fleeing D'Qar and present at the end of Crait are never stated to be the only soldiers combating the First Order (that I can recall). They're simply what's left of the Resistance. There can absolutely still be New Republic soldiers and supporters stationed on millions of worlds across the galaxy. There can be numerous reasons of why none showed up at the end of The Last Jedi, ranging from they were entrenched in battle against the First Order invasions of their own worlds, to that they support the New Republic but are against the Resistance due to the heavy propaganda released against Leia and the Resistance in the years following up to Episode 7, to my initial and the most obvious interpretation that the galaxy has lost faith after the destruction of the capital and need the spark to be reignited (enter: Luke Skywalker).

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's not how the military works. Like this isn't a merry band of robbers, its a military organization with a very rigid command structure. Holdo doesn't personally know Poe, she knows he's insubordinate and they are in crisis mode (she was right btw considering as soon as Poe learned of their strategy he leaked it to lower ranking officers who in turn got that info leaked to the Imperial High Command on the Supremacy) so yeah keeping their plans on a need to know basis makes sense. And the reason was demonstrated hours later when hundreds of Resistance members were obliterated by the First Order's fleet.



Also this.

She knows he is a subordinate with Influence, she didn't deal with him properly, and ended up paying for it. And no, not telling Poe caused this to occur. Oh yeah, she then also waited for half the escape ships to be destroyed, before LSing the ship.


There are ways of getting around that, like taking him out of commision. etc.
Bad writing on their part.

I'm pretty sure it's stated that the Republic has a fleet somewhere but I think it's obvious either way because what else was the Senate referring to when it talked about "intervening" and sending reinforcements? If there was no fleet to combat the TF they wouldn't have worried about the Senate at all, they could've just marched right into Coruscant then lol. Heck, after TPM Nute Gunray was arrested and his armies forcibly disbanded (though they later circumvented that, ofc). If the Republic had no army Gunray would have just called his fleets into Coruscant to free him.

The film is being misleading then, as it acts as though Leia and the Resistance are the only ones still fighting rather than "oh there are other rebels too we're just 0.0000001% of them".

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I'm pretty sure it's stated that the Republic has a fleet somewhere but I think it's obvious either way because what else was the Senate referring to when it talked about "intervening" and sending reinforcements? If there was no fleet to combat the TF they wouldn't have worried about the Senate at all, they could've just marched right into Coruscant then lol.

No, the Republic has no army whatsoever. In Episode II, they are debating over the passing of the "Military Creation Act," which would then create a standing army for the Republic.

Also, the Senate intervening could merely mean issuing further sanctions or revoking the Trade Federation's franchise. It doesn't mean an army.

As to why the Trade Federation can't just invade Coruscant on the whim, there's still the Jedi Order, which Episode II states functions as the only defenders for the Republic.



Edit: what part are you referring to?

Here's the Episode II crawl:

There is unrest in the Galactic Senate
Several hundred solar systems under
the leadership of the rebel leader, Count
Dooku, have decalred their intentions to
secede from the Republic.

This separatist movement has made it
difficult for the limited number of
Jedi Kights to maintain peace and
order in the galaxy.

Senator Amidala, the former Queen of
Naboo, is returning to Coruscant
to vote on the critical issue
of creating an army to assist the
overwhelmed Jedi.

The New Republic is trying to replicate this demilitarized Old Republic.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
She knows he is a subordinate with Influence, she didn't deal with him properly, and ended up paying for it. And no, not telling Poe caused this to occur. Oh yeah, she then also waited for half the escape ships to be destroyed, before LSing the ship.


There are ways of getting around that, like taking him out of commision. etc.
Bad writing on their part.

You clearly have no idea how a military operation runs. If Nick Jonas joined the US military, General Mattis doesn't have to let Sergeant Jonas know what his plans are and certainly doesn't have to let Jonas know why he's deciding what he's deciding. It doesn't matter how much influence the junior officer has they are junior officers.

The point was for her to lure them away, so the Empire didn't know where the Resistance had fled. She had to take some time to come up with a new plan and you know move the ****ing multi-kilometer cruiser into position.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's not how the military works. Like this isn't a merry band of robbers, its a military organization with a very rigid command structure. Holdo doesn't personally know Poe, she knows he's insubordinate and they are in crisis mode (she was right btw considering as soon as Poe learned of their strategy he leaked it to lower ranking officers who in turn got that info leaked to the Imperial High Command on the Supremacy) so yeah keeping their plans on a need to know basis makes sense. And the reason was demonstrated hours later when hundreds of Resistance members were obliterated by the First Order's fleet.



Also this. The entire reason the plan was leaked in the first place is because Holdo did not simply reveal the plan in the first place in what notably appeared to be a suicidal situation. All Poe was trying to do was avert this so everybody could live to fight another day. The plan was not on a need to know basis since Leia herself reveals to Poe where they are headed while the plan is STILL in commission. The movie gives zero rational for Holdo's secrecy and any argument made on that forefront is pure fancanon. Holdo's actions were the epitome of incompetence and caused a justifiable mutiny. Why she is the commander of anything beyond bantha fodder cleanup duty is beyond me. If the message here is to follow orders no matter what, it isn't even consistent with SW canon since that's the EXACT opposite of the message in Rogue One where the hero is PRAISED for her defiance.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Here's the Episode II crawl:

There is unrest in the Galactic Senate
Several hundred solar systems under
the leadership of the rebel leader, Count
Dooku, have decalred their intentions to
secede from the Republic.

This separatist movement has made it
difficult for the limited number of
Jedi Kights to maintain peace and
order in the galaxy.

Senator Amidala, the former Queen of
Naboo, is returning to Coruscant
to vote on the critical issue
of creating an army to assist the
overwhelmed Jedi.

The New Republic is trying to replicate this demilitarized Old Republic.


The Republic has a fully functioning peackeeping navy under presumably the Judicial Department. That's where folks like Admiral Yularen come from. In fact he even reflects on one of the battles the Republic Fleet had with the Corporate Alliance back in TCWs where he fought against Admiral Trench, Battle of Malastare Narrows.

With his public refusal to send aid, Valorum turned to private methods to arm the Dugs against Admiral Trench and the Corporate Alliance. Behind the scenes Valorum convinced the neighboring Tyus and Var Hagen sectors to provide aid to Malastare, as well as passing credits to the Dugs to hire privateer starships to match those of Trench. To coordinate the Dugs' naval defenses, Valorum sent military officers whose publicly stated objective was to "observe" the situation. Among the officers was Captain Wullf Yularen of the Kwymar Sector Forces, a capable commander who had previously battled Sikurdian pirates during his career. Yularen and his comrades marshaled the Dugs' forces for the impending confrontation with Trench.

From Wookieepedia (and Legends), but no, it seems they raised a private army.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
With his public refusal to send aid, Valorum turned to private methods to arm the Dugs against Admiral Trench and the Corporate Alliance. Behind the scenes Valorum convinced the neighboring Tyus and Var Hagen sectors to provide aid to Malastare, as well as passing credits to the Dugs to hire privateer starships to match those of Trench. To coordinate the Dugs' naval defenses, Valorum sent military officers whose publicly stated objective was to "observe" the situation. Among the officers was Captain Wullf Yularen of the Kwymar Sector Forces, a capable commander who had previously battled Sikurdian pirates during his career. Yularen and his comrades marshaled the Dugs' forces for the impending confrontation with Trench.

From Wookieepedia (and Legends), but no, it seems they raised a private army.

That's not canon anymore. +Even the Legends page on Wookiepedia cites there being a Republic Fleet present. And if we want to pull in Legends the Judicial Forces still had a substantial fleet consisting of Dreadnought-class heavy cruisers and light cruisers.

Hence why I said it's from Legends. My point was that the only example you brought up doesn't prove there's a Republic fleet. And, if you'd have looked, it states a Republic fleet since it's considering the privately-raised army as the Republic fleet.

As it stands, there's no evidence in Canon that the Republic had any official military / army / navy.

Originally posted by Kurk
Because:

1.) it was original

It really wasn't.



Which is the principal problem with the film, it tries to create twists for the sake of creating twists, and in doing so it heavily abandons sane storytelling technique. As a result, none of the story arcs leave the viewer with a sense of accomplishment. For example, the Rey and Ren arc has a lot of development up until the last chapter of the film, only to take their relationship back to where it was at the start of the film.

Based off the way he wrote and directed this movie, Rian Johnson turned loose on Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet would have had Tybalt stab Juliet's father to death early in the second act, sent Mercutio and Nurse on a side trip to Mantua in which they discover Shylock the Jew has been supplying swords to the Capulets and the Montagues, and spend a good hour or so with Friar Lawrence telling us that the Catholic Church imposed marriage on people and that marriage generally is shit.



It was pretty forced. And that's another big failing of the movie.
The Farce Awakens and the The Last Disappointment are terrible movies failing on multiple points - points that are based on conventional human behaviour, particularly female behaviour.

Other than Kurk, no one here has come up with reasons to why they like this film. Only Neph berating people for not enjoying shitty plot lines that seem to be there soley to promote SJW propaganda, that were indeed forced.

Who are you?

A sock

There's been an awakening. Have you felt it?

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
The entire reason the plan was leaked in the first place is because Holdo did not simply reveal the plan in the first place in what notably appeared to be a suicidal situation. All Poe was trying to do was avert this so everybody could live to fight another day. The plan was not on a need to know basis since Leia herself reveals to Poe where they are headed while the plan is STILL in commission. The movie gives zero rational for Holdo's secrecy and any argument made on that forefront is pure fancanon. Holdo's actions were the epitome of incompetence and caused a justifiable mutiny. Why she is the commander of anything beyond bantha fodder cleanup duty is beyond me. If the message here is to follow orders no matter what, it isn't even consistent with SW canon since that's the EXACT opposite of the message in Rogue One where the hero is PRAISED for her defiance.


Well said

So any reasons why this film is good?

I thought 300 was the Number of soldiers the Resistance had left, not the Republic. Or are Republic army and Resistance the same thing? I thought the Resistance was like an army of volunteers to fight the FO because Republic didnt have the balls to start a war

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, the Republic has no army whatsoever. In Episode II, they are debating over the passing of the "Military Creation Act," which would then create a standing army for the Republic.


Army != navy. The Republic clearly had a navy because they were talking about intervening and sending reinforcements against the Trade Federation, which presumably didn't mean sending in the entire Jedi Order in starfighters.



Lol sanctions? Trade franchise? How do you enforce those without a fleet?



How are the Jedi supposed to defend against TF battleships again?



The entire movie. Even if the New Republic had no military, f*cking Afganistan mustered a larger group of rebels than an entire galaxy, lol.

I've seen the idea online that post-RotJ the Republic was a lot like post WW1 France where they focused more on rebuilding and infrastructure because they didn't think anyone wanted another giant war and then got assblasted by the Nazi's building a massive war economy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've seen the idea online that post-RotJ the Republic was a lot like post WW1 France where they focused more on rebuilding and infrastructure because they didn't think anyone wanted another giant war and then got assblasted by the Nazi's building a massive war economy.

France actually had a larger military than Hitler did at the start of WWII. They just got outplayed. But even then they had a larger underground resistance than the New Republic does 2 days after losing and they're a country while the NR is like a quintillion quintillion times larger, lol.

Nothing new. Outside Saxon and some random reference guides, the Star Wars films have never had an accurate sense of scale.

Beefy?

Nope.

Who?

Erectile Dysfunction.