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so basically thats whats up. each of the characters is standing and cant move. behind the character there is an adamantium wall 1 meter thick and 20 meters into the ground,powered up by all green lanterns to make sure the wall wont break, dent fall or move. now, the juggernaut is standing right infront of the character and starts moving forward into the character. what will happen to the character or to juggernaut?

1. Black Panther
2. Captain america
3. Spider-man
4. Iron-man
5. Namor
6. Colossus
7. Thor
8. Superman
9. Thanos
10. Galactus

Dione*

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Dione*
Thats his street name tho

I imagine he'd stop at Galactus.

Nah. Galactus would need to either go get a snack or take a nap after 10 minutes or so.

but what will happen to the others?

Ever stepped on a ketchup packet? Well that is one thru five at least.

Can Cap place the shield in front of him?

Really wanna see Cyttorak fight somebody to see what level hes at

Originally posted by Flyattractor
Ever stepped on a ketchup packet? Well that is one thru five at least.

Namor? you believe juggernauts movement is that powerful? if WWH stopped him from moving, dont you think at least namor can avoid getting squashed like you described?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Can Cap place the shield in front of him?

yes, that should be interesting because the shield is protecting him from impact. however what about constand pressure?

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Really wanna see Cyttorak fight somebody to see what level hes at This is vital data. The way I tend to interpret these "absolutes" (eg, once Juggs starts moving nothing can stop him), he should be literally unstoppable in his forward momentum and clear the list. But then, if that "absolute" is not really absolute and just hyperbole, and Jugg's power caps with Cytt's, then he gets stopped by whomever is stronger than his benefactor.

Originally posted by Dareangel
yes, that should be interesting because the shield is protecting him from impact. however what about constand pressure?

The shape of the shield should allow Cap to crouch up against the wall with the shield taking the brunt of the force.

When you say new juggernaut do you mean the tubes of cyttorak juggernaut?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
The shape of the shield should allow Cap to crouch up against the wall with the shield taking the brunt of the force.

You're funny. Cap gets squashed between the shield and the wall.

Originally posted by Stoic
You're funny. Cap gets squashed between the shield and the wall.

He's right, depending on how concave or convex the shield is, there could be enough room but not sure

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
He's right, depending on how concave or convex the shield is, there could be enough room but not sure

Cap's shield is small, it's not as if he can fit his entire body into it. This is why he'd be smushed.

well cap can put his shield in a horizontal way above his head, that way juggernaut will bump into the edge of the shield and it will be pressed against the wall from one side and by juggernaut from the other side above cap.

Originally posted by Stoic
You're funny. Cap gets squashed between the shield and the wall.


No.

He doesn't.

Not even if using the shield as a brace against Juggernaut doesn't work.

NOT, that is, if the participants understand even the basics of this situation.


The original poster (OP) of this thread gave another option, whether he himself was aware of it or not, by giving us this specific scenario. The wall that Cap is being pressed against is under control of Green Lantern rings.
Rings that are under the control of a person's willpower.

Cap has enough of that to do what is thought impossible, as here, for instance, where he manages to break out of a cosmic cube, presumably now in these Marvel retconned days, the same type that Secret Wars Beyonder was:

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101907_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101908_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101909_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101910_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101911_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101912_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101913_image.jpg

And, as this longtime reader knows, Green Lantern ring power can be wrested from that of its standard bearer and used by another individual, as "Dark" Kara demonstrated against John Stewart when she first fought against the Justice League:


https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37102000_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37102001_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37102002_image.jpg

Source: Supergirl #4, Volume 3
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Penciller: Ian Churchill
Circa: 2004-2006

That's from a first time user, who'd never even worn a ring before, taking it from an experienced Green Lantern and knocking him out, with no instruction as to how the rings actually work.

The willful Cap we're shown in the comics can and will override any group of 20 no-names who do not have their lives imperiled and control those rings enough to either re-direct Juggs or make that wall give way. I can see Black Panther managing this, too, for presumably writers thought he demonstrated enough will throughout his history in canon comics to make him resisting deathless hunger plausible. (That happens in a series I will not mention by name in this particular post.)

There is zero doubt in my mind that Captain America with standard knowledge survives this, though.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
No.

He doesn't.

Not even if using the shield as a brace against Juggernaut doesn't work.

NOT, that is, if the participants understand even the basics of this situation.


The original poster (OP) of this thread gave another option, whether he himself was aware of it or not, by giving us this specific scenario. The wall that Cap is being pressed against is under control of Green Lantern rings.
Rings that are under the control of a person's willpower.

Cap has enough of that to do what is thought impossible, as here, for instance, where he manages to break out of a cosmic cube, presumably now in these Marvel retconned days, the same type that Secret Wars Beyonder was:

https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101907_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101908_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101909_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101910_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101911_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101912_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/37101913_image.jpg

And, as this longtime reader knows, Green Lantern ring power can be wrested from that of its standard bearer and used by another individual, as "Dark" Kara demonstrated against John Stewart when she first fought against the Justice League:


https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37102000_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37102001_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37102002_image.jpg

Source: Supergirl #4, Volume 3
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Penciller: Ian Churchill
Circa: 2004-2006

That's from a first time user, who'd never even worn a ring before, taking it from an experienced Green Lantern and knocking him out, with no instruction as to how the rings actually work.

The willful Cap we're shown in the comics can and will override any group of 20 no-names who do not have their lives imperiled and control those rings enough to either re-direct Juggs or make that wall give way. I can see Black Panther managing this, too, for presumably writers thought he demonstrated enough will throughout his history in canon comics to make him resisting deathless hunger plausible. (That happens in a series I will not mention by name in this particular post.)

There is zero doubt in my mind that Captain America with standard knowledge survives this, though.

Lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol.

I know... Drugs.

Originally posted by Stoic
I know... Drugs.

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37104322_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37104323_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37104324_image.jpg

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37104322_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37104323_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/37104324_image.jpg

Que

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
He's right, depending on how concave or convex the shield is, there could be enough room but not sure



It's worth noting that, for a time, Captain America had an ENERGY shield with apparently adjustable size.

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37106057_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37106058_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37106059_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37106060_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37106061_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37106062_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37106063_image.jpg

Source: Captain America #10 (1998 series)

I'm trying to picture how the shield would work out for Cap? Does he get into a fetal position against the wall while Cain walks into him? How does that work out for Cap exactly? How does it negate that the wall that is still behind him, and how does it stop him from being squashed?

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm trying to picture how the shield would work out for Cap? Does he get into a fetal position against the wall while Cain walks into him? How does that work out for Cap exactly? How does it negate that the wall that is still behind him, and how does it stop him from being squashed?


That's actually relatively easy to envision, and even the original poster (OP) of this thread proposes how that would work with what we regard as the conventional Captain America shield:

Originally posted by Dareangel
well cap can put his shield in a horizontal way above his head, that way juggernaut will bump into the edge of the shield and it will be pressed against the wall from one side and by juggernaut from the other side above cap.

In other words, hold the shield in such a way that it maintains space between Jug and the wall roughly equal to its 3 to 4 foot diameter.

That would look SOMETHING like this with the exception, of course, that Cap would not ever deliberately have his hands between jug and shield, or, as is shown in some panels of this scan, between shield and rear wall:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37108026_image.jpg

Here, an isolated portion of the above scan will better illustrate the CapShield used as bracing strut:

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37108295_image.jpg

Originally posted by Dareangel
cap can put his shield in a horizontal way above his head, that way juggernaut will bump into the edge of the shield and it will be pressed against the wall from one side and by juggernaut from the other side above cap.


I'm astonished at how hard it currently is to find visual examples of random topics given how advanced the Internet has become. Captain America is too generic, of course, but with a number of singular isolating terms ...?

Nevertheless I found a panel to well illustrate the OP's quote above, albeit from a "straight on" perspective, not a side view, as I'd originally hoped.

Of course, being me, I left Easter Eggs for the general reader or Cap fan to enjoy in addition to that otherwise lone page/panel:

https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37110764_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37110765_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37110766_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37110767_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37110768_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37110769_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/37110770_image.jpg

Don't remember the exact issue of this rocket launch / rocket abort showing.
It's from the Captain America series that began around 1998 and ran about 3 or 4 years or so. Somewhere between issue 9 and 22, I think, because that seems to have been the main arc of the energy shield.

I'm discovering just how hax and insane both versions of Captain America's shields are. Here, besides the visually obvious, we're told in text (we'll be shown evidence the theory is true in the issue that follows this one) that one of the shields is capable of triggering a reaction more powerful than an atom bomb, all due to the misalignment of a single molecule of vibranium:


https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37113038_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37113039_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37113040_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37113041_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37113042_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37113043_image.jpg

Source: Captain America #22
Circa: 1998-2002

Originally posted by Dareangel
so basically thats whats up. each of the characters is standing and cant move. behind the character there is an adamantium wall 1 meter thick and 20 meters into the ground,powered up by all green lanterns to make sure the wall wont break, dent fall or move. now, the juggernaut is standing right infront of the character and starts moving forward into the character. what will happen to the character or to juggernaut?

2. Captain america



While a few of the numbered choices are interesting, none is more intriguing than Captain America. Perhaps THE most intriguing is the case of Captain America with his energy shield. During one of the arcs where he had THIS type of shield, he faced a scenario nearly exactly like the one proposed. The story started off with an immigrant family and Sharon Carter stopping by Steve's apartment:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113611_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113612_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113613_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113614_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113615_image.jpg

... but then quickly put Steve in front of the Hulk-spar known as The Rhino, a villain with nearly exactly the same M.O. as Juggernaut, charge headfirst into whatever target you desire, confident it will fall away, get crushed, or be run over. The situation even has Steve with his back to a wall of girders:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113616_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113617_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113618_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37113619_image.jpg


Very, VERY interesting result ...


Source: Captain America #9
Circa: 1998-2002

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
depending on how concave or convex the shield is, there could be enough room but not sure


Cap's energy shield, being adjustable in size and convexity, can indeed form a bowl that should protect Cap from even Juggernaut's crushing force for a short time:

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37114464_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37114465_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37114466_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37114467_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37114468_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37114469_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37114470_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37114471_image.jpg

Might be worth it to explore how strong current TubeJug is.

According to the guards he's with at the beginning of the most recent story I know of featuring him, though, TubeJug actually got taken down by Iceman:

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37116937_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37116938_image.jpg

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37116939_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37116940_image.jpg

Source: Uncanny Avengers #29

3rd scan has the mention.
I don't yet know the specifics of what Iceman did, but this is the sort of thing that sounds like the sort of thing Icefans would RACE to put into a Bobby respect thread, so Googling should net me an answer before an hour's up.

Alright so I tracked down some material not only from what was mentioned before, but also from X-Men Blue #1. That has Juggernaut facing down a young time displaced alternate version of the X-Men. From what I can gather online, Juggs is upset over the death of Charles Xavier at the hands of one Scott Summers, and the dialogue of the encounter supports that:


https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37117158_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37117159_image.jpg

This version of the young X-Men has some rather unsettling differences from the one older fans know. The encounter ends, for instance, when Hank

... summons demons to shunt Juggernaut through hell to Siberia:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37117160_image.jpg

I suppose that's some sort of entendre, what with Siberia having the long-standing rep of being "hell frozen over".


At any rate, Juggs goes to Siberia and young alt X-Men go to Madripoor, which, according to Marvel Wiki, is "a small island nation south of Singapore in the Indonesian archipelago".

When Juggs returns to America, and gives us his best Donald Trump jab:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37117161_image.jpg


... he finds himself facing modern solo Iceman.
The writer gives Juggernaut the personality of a schizophrenic, so he gets uncharacteristically lethal in his action toward Bobby, who pulls out some deus ex machina powers to win the day:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37117162_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37117163_image.jpg

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37117164_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/37117165_image.jpg

Damn. juggernaut is weak now. also, he became a big p*ssy. all scared by those demons screaming. and then doesnt want to fight iceman. then cant believe he crushed iceman. whats up with marvel pissing on so many bad guys. in the past, the writers could make a bad guy lose and still be a bad ass. today i am looking at what they did to jugegrnaut and sabretooth for example... not good.

It makes sense that Jug would have respect and even fear of the supernatural.
He is empowered BY a demon, after all; he knows these beings aren't fiction.

I can certainly see where you got the impression he's being punked, however.


https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122244_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122245_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122246_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122247_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122249_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122250_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122251_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122252_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37122253_image.jpg

yep. juggernaut never was a genius. however, he used to be a bad ass. now days it seems like writers cant handle the character. he is either depowered all the time or he is just treated like a complete retarded p*ssy. i guess they cant handle the character and forget what juggernaut is suppose to be

With the possible exception of Kuurth, I don't think I've ever seen a more optimum rendering of Juggernaut than my introductory read of Amazing Spider-Man #s 229-230. That story is a masterpiece in terms of action framing. Absolutely nothing I can remember makes Jug take so much as a backward step.

Time permitting, I'll provide scans of that fight for your remembrance and enjoyment.

In the meantime, since you yourself proposed a way in which Captain America could use his shield to brace against Jug, let's make a reasonable case that said shield could actually resist force on the Jug-bulldoze level.

Enter Count Nefaria:



https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37129632_image.jpg

https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37129634_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37129635_image.jpg
https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37129636_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37129637_image.jpg

I was struck by how remarkably similar much of the action concerning Nefaria was to that of DC's Superboy Prime. He performs the same role in essentially the same script. The poses are the same, which is to be expected since the artist is the same (George Perez), but the close-ups and insanity and team wreckage by a lunatic bent on re-shaping the Earth to his image, but destroying it and everything else in the process are also the same.
I even realized today that Prime's "Time-Trapper" guise as an old man is Nefaria's image. DC must have liked what they'd seen here:


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37130112_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37130113_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37130114_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37130115_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37130116_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37130117_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37130118_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37130119_image.jpg

At any rate, the reason for all that is to establish Count Nefaria (CN) is a VERY strong guy, at least on the level of Thor, who sundered pretty even with Juggernaut when they physically grappled with one another back in the day.

Actually, it was reckoned that Wonder Man was stronger than Thor for awhile, and Nefaria has just cause to say he is stronger than THAT:

https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37130271_image.jpg


So how does this powerhouse do on the CapShield test?

https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37130272_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37130273_image.jpg

'Bout the same as nearly everybody else.

https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/37130274_image.jpg

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Here, an isolated portion of the above scan will better illustrate the CapShield used as bracing strut:

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/37108295_image.jpg

Jesus this killed me

Originally posted by Dareangel
so basically thats whats up. each of the characters is standing and cant move. behind the character there is an adamantium wall 1 meter thick and 20 meters into the ground,powered up by all green lanterns to make sure the wall wont break, dent fall or move. now, the juggernaut is standing right infront of the character and starts moving forward into the character. what will happen to the character or to juggernaut?



Well read fans would be appreciated for answering whether Thor here, as implied by the dialogue, is the "King" Thor or even "Rune King" Thor that was wandering around for a storyline or two:


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37136224_image.jpg

Well-read fans would also be appreciated who could say if Modern Cap is as strong as yesteryear's was here:

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37136225_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37136226_image.jpg

Rogue's initial success against Juggernaut has a lot to suggest for how Colossus and Namor might fair.
https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/37136227_image.jpg


1. Black Panther
JugForce greater than the force T'Challa by himself can stand.
Scenario gives BP survival chances due to Lanter Rings and whether BP is dressed in his Vibranium suit.

2. Captain America
JugForce greater than what Cap can withstand alone.
JugForce reflected if it comes too fast against Cap's Energy Shield, a la Rhino.
JugForce as slow steadily increasing pressure withstood by CapEnergyShield as ForceField until battery power runs out.
JugForce as steady pressure insufficient to actually deform classic shield; Cap can survive until weight shift slants the shield, at which point willpower and lantern rings are last legitimate option.
Kuurth, theoretically possessing not only Cytorrak power but that of the Asgardian Skyfather/near-Skyfather "Serpent", should theoretically be able to overcome even Classic CapShield. Shouldn't be able to override the Lantern ring option, though. There's several of them and Cap has even overcome Cosmic Cube level shenanigans.

9. Thanos
If Thanos's "Death won't accept me" clause is still in effect, best Jug can ever do is pin Thanos to the wall until he decides his time would be better spent doing something else.