1/6/2018 - #3B (Ranking THREE, Round TWO) - Most Powerful Tournament - VOTE!

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DarthAnt66
WHO IS THE #3 MOST POWERFUL CHARACTER?

CONTENDERS:

a.) Valkorion
b.) Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader (pre-suit)

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BACKGROUND AND RULES: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t649092.html.

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REMINDER: All characters are strictly in their Legends incarnation and are at peak combative (not potential) capabilities under normal conditions (no external amplifies or other temporary boosts are to be considered). All characters are at peak mental mindset while maintaining an accurate portrayal of their mindset and beliefs (morals on). Lightsaber skill and related abilities (such as physical strength, speed, etc.) is to be considered if relevant.

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VOTE!

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion.

AncientPower
Valkorion.

Mainly because I'm going to argue for a KF!Vader no.1 spot retry.

The Ellimist
Anakin. He scales either above or in the same tier as RotS Sidious, who scales above EoTPM Sidious, who scales astronomically* above peak Plagueis, who scales above pre-balance shift Plagueis, who:

- presents a cosmic threat to the Force itself through sheer force of will to the point where the Force creates the Jesus of the Star Wars universe to stop him.
- psychically contacts every being in the galaxy (100 quadrillion+) simultaneously.
- creates massive year+ long winters on Naboo just through a brief visit
- scales above Tenebrous, who scales above Tenebrous's master, who pierced the galaxy-wide light side blanket cast by the entire Jedi Order
- scales above every Sith who came before him via the blurb, and implicitly above peak Vitiate as Plagueis is aware of his existence, considers him a Sith, and thinks he is more powerful than him (after careful consideration upon which he had earlier thought he wasn't the most powerful yet).
(more will be on a forthcoming post by Azronger)

* Sidious's power boost following Plagueis's death was so massive it was described as rearranging the orbits of the planets and stars.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The Ellimist
- psychically contacts every being in the galaxy (100 quadrillion+) simultaneously.
Can you quote me?

Trocity
Valkorion.

Lord Stark
Valkorion, because this should be Yoda and I sure as shit am not giving into this KF!Vader wank. This nigga is the new Marka Ragnos.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Can you quote me?

samappo
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Anakin. He scales either above or in the same tier as RotS Sidious, who scales above EoTPM Sidious, who scales astronomically* above peak Plagueis, who scales above pre-balance shift Plagueis, who:

- presents a cosmic threat to the Force itself through sheer force of will to the point where the Force creates the Jesus of the Star Wars universe to stop him.
- psychically contacts every being in the galaxy (100 quadrillion+) simultaneously.
- creates massive year+ long winters on Naboo just through a brief visit
- scales above Tenebrous, who scales above Tenebrous's master, who pierced the galaxy-wide light side blanket cast by the entire Jedi Order
- scales above every Sith who came before him via the blurb, and implicitly above peak Vitiate as Plagueis is aware of his existence, considers him a Sith, and thinks he is more powerful than him (after careful consideration upon which he had earlier thought he wasn't the most powerful yet).
(more will be on a forthcoming post by Azronger)

* Sidious's power boost following Plagueis's death was so massive it was described as rearranging the orbits of the planets and stars.

Hard to argue with that tbh

DarthAnt66
@Skillz: Can you explain how that makes sense? The Jedi were clearly not aware of Plagueis' existence.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Skillz: Can you explain how that makes sense? The Jedi were clearly not aware of Plagueis' existence.

The force didn't allow Plagueis to do it, as shown by "the force growing silent, as if in flight from him"

DarthAnt66
So then how's that a feat? It doesn't necessarily mean he was capable of doing it - just he attempted to do it.

Elm's post implied he was successful, also.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Well, the quote says that he did indeed "stretch out" across the galaxy, just to no end.

samappo
It's implied that Plagueis was capable of it, but that the force would not allow it, not that he couldn't. imo anyway.

DarthAnt66
Revan, Caedus, Krayt, Kun, etc. have powers that can stretch out across the galaxy. That doesn't necessitate that he stretched out with the full potency of speaking to every being ever.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It says that he was going to "inform" them all of his presence, and that he was going to "impact" them all. Seems like it could be different tbh.

DarthAnt66
It's a feat of a caliber that I'm not going to assume Plagueis was capable of just based on the fact he wanted to try to do it, especially since the novel doesn't heavily imply Plagueis was capable of it anyway - as demonstrated by the fact that this novel has been our for many years now and this "feat" has only come to prominence in the last several weeks or months.

Pessimystic
Valkorion.

Greysentinel365
Anakin walks through his lightning and cuts him apart.

The Ellimist
I'll wait for Azronger's thread on Plagueis.

Originally posted by samappo
Hard to argue with that tbh

I take that as an official vote for Anakin?

Pessimystic
Yup. Anakin has been wrecked by Dooku's lightning on a number of occasions but Valkorion's won't do anything thumb up

Azronger
Vader

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Pessimystic
Yup. Anakin has been wrecked by Dooku's lightning on a number of occasions but Valkorion's won't do anything thumb up

That's a lazy af response and you know it. KF Vader and TCW Anakin obviously aren't comparable, lmfao.

Azronger
If Anakin wins, we should still have a Yoda vs Valk poll because I feel most Anakin supporters also think Yoda > Valk but couldn't do anything about it because they had to decide between two characters and could only vote for one of them.

Pessimystic
Sure, but he's done nothing to suggest he could walk through lightning even as of Operation Knightfall.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Pessimystic
Sure, but he's done nothing to suggest he could walk through lightning even as of Operation Knightfall.

Except that Sidious thought he might be more powerful than him. mmm

Pessimystic
Sidious' thoughts are irrelevant. A mere musing doesn't confirm anything.

Anyway, I don't see Palpatine walking through Dooku's lightning either.

The Ellimist
Oh I see, you took that literally lol.

Greysentinel365
Theta. Storm.

Pessimystic
I can never tell with you Ellim...

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Pessimystic
I can never tell with you Ellim...

?? I didn't make the claim.

Anyway the powerscaling with KF Vader > Valkorion is pretty clear.

AncientPower
Valkorion has:

- Threatened to knock out every Force user Satele Shan tier and below with the tidal wave disturbance in the Force caused by his death.
- Destroyed the surface of Ziost in an incorporeal form without aid or a ritual.
- Performed the following feats simultaneously prior to the aforementioned feat which massively increased his power:

- As Vitiate, prior to a massive increase by absorbing the combined life and Force energy of Ziost and its inhabitants, made the combined power of the Dread Masters insignificant by comparison. Yet the Dread Masters had harnessed such power that they could drive more than a trillion people insane, whilst terraforming planets with extreme dark side corruption that was immeasurably more powerful than Dromund Kaas, Ziost or Korriban.
- Near effortlessly stomped the Outlander, Arcann and the spirit of Vaylin with aid by an Uber Holocron summoned Revan, Satele Shan and Darth Marr after a suicide attack by Lord Dramath's spirit had wounded his own spirit. The only reason he lost was because of the environment which was the Outlander's own mind.
- Gets direct scaling off of eldritch Force monstrosities such as Soa, Sel-Makor and Darth Nihilus prior to becoming vastly more powerful due to the Ziost Cataclysm.
- Evidently defeated the pantheon of Zakuul on Iokath. Six massive cyborg entities responsible for killing trillions on the Outer Rim and destroying planets.
- Has repeatedly one-shot Dark Councils, three hundred years prior to SWTOR.
- Absorbed the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see which had the power to reduce the surface of a planet to ruins, and render said planet a lifeless void in the Force immeasurably worse than the surface of Malachor V.
- Prior to the aforementioned event, he was stated to have supreme power in the Force at a time when Marka Ragnos was still alive.
- He has three lines of scaling which puts the likes of Muur and thus Vader/Krayt far beyond fodder range

Valkorion without a doubt is second only to KF!Vader who should be in first place.

Pessimystic
Originally posted by The Ellimist
?? I didn't make the claim.

Anyway the powerscaling with KF Vader > Valkorion is pretty clear.

So you don't think Anakin could walk through Valkorion's room filling lightning?

The Ellimist
None of AP's arguments provide a clear powerscaling between Plagueis and Valkorion. What does: Palgueis's accolades and their comparative cosmic threat to the Force, both of which point to Plagueis.

Originally posted by AncientPower
- Threatened to knock out every Force user Satele Shan tier and below with the tidal wave disturbance in the Force caused by his death.

Nonsense, you're just extrapolating from Satele getting knocked out that getting knocked out is negatively correlated with Force power (in which case we could argue that Bail Organa >>> Yoda during Order 66).



Kek he had aid (enslaved minds + nexus) and it's basically stated to be a ritual (as I'm sure you know, where it's like "unlike other rituals Ziost was seen firsthand" (paraphrased).



Nowhere is it stated his power "massively" increased.



* over the course of centuries



mmm Dramath can damage Valkorion with a suicide attack but Galen Marek can't damage Palpatine with one?



Where is it confirmed by an OOU source that Valkorion > Nihilus?



Vague and unquantifiable.



Under nebulous circumstances with prep on his turf.



True; Valkorion should be way more powerful than he demonstrably is.



Lol do you really want to set the precedent that "supreme power" can be taken literally? Just say yes if you really do, and I'm sure you know what's going to follow.



Only because you still incoherently claim that FP Murr - spirit Murr >>> FP Krayt - Vong Krayt based on this weird non-argument about Jaden Korr beating spirit Ragnos and how this works if you circularly assume stuff about Jaden and Ragnos.



Then you should vote for Vader kek, because your plan to demand a recount doesn't get helped if Vader gets placed lower and it appears that he has less support.

Pessimystic
Why is your only argument scaling Ellim? You're like a Jew when someone criticises Israel, you invoke the Holocaust and Anti-Semitism and move on.

The Ellimist
Not sure how transitive logic is being compared to ad hominem attacks now...?

JKBart
Valky is more powerful and masterful in the Force, but Ani beats him, so I vote Anakin.

Rebel95
Valkorion is definitely more masterful in the force and has more actualized power, but Knightfall Vader has far more raw power and is the better combatant. Hmm....

I'm gonna have to go with Valkorion, simply because I think he would win in a pure force battle.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Rebel95
Valkorion is definitely more masterful in the force and has more actualized power, but Knightfall Vader has far more raw power and is the better combatant. Hmm....

I'm gonna have to go with Valkorion, simply because I think he would win in a pure force battle.

To be clear though this is an all-out contest.

Rebel95
Oh you're right, just went back and read the rules. In that case I'll go with Anakin.

The Ellimist
thumb up

JKBart
Originally posted by Azronger
If Anakin wins, we should still have a Yoda vs Valk poll because I feel most Anakin supporters also think Yoda > Valk but couldn't do anything about it because they had to decide between two characters and could only vote for one of them.

thumb up

The Ellimist
We will, this only decides Anakin vs. Valk.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Azronger
If Anakin wins, we should still have a Yoda vs Valk poll because I feel most Anakin supporters also think Yoda > Valk but couldn't do anything about it because they had to decide between two characters and could only vote for one of them.
Valkorion doesn't become #4th place if he loses.

I plan on bypassing the initial #4 thread poll since it's obvious Yoda and Valkorion are the competitors, but yes he has to beat Yoda in a poll in order to win.

Dark-Kenshin
Valky boy. No question. thumb up

AncientPower
Originally posted by The Ellimist
None of AP's arguments provide a clear powerscaling between Plagueis and Valkorion. What does: Palgueis's accolades and their comparative cosmic threat to the Force, both of which point to Plagueis.

He doesn't need powerscaling when he's already stomping Plagueis in the realm of feats.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nonsense, you're just extrapolating from Satele getting knocked out that getting knocked out is negatively correlated with Force power (in which case we could argue that Bail Organa >>> Yoda during Order 66).

LMFAO. Darth Marr could feel the effects of the tidal wave from an incorporeal state. Satele Shan could protect her mind because she's got immense feats in TP and farsight.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Kek he had aid (enslaved minds + nexus) and it's basically stated to be a ritual (as I'm sure you know, where it's like "unlike other rituals Ziost was seen firsthand" (paraphrased).

He used the deaths of people to restore his power after being released in a weakened state on Yavin IV.



And you're straight up lying. It's made absolutely clear that it isn't a ritual:



Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nowhere is it stated his power "massively" increased.

So Nathema required 8,000 Sith Lords and a ten day ritual to enact and yet Vitiate in an incorporeal form is capable of replicating the feat with a death field, and you think that despite it stating to have vastly increased his capacity as a Force user, that Ziost wouldn't massively increase his power? Top logic.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
* over the course of centuries

Raptus says prior to the next sun rise actually.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
mmm Dramath can damage Valkorion with a suicide attack but Galen Marek can't damage Palpatine with one?

A spiritual attack is not the same as a physical Force exchange. But I'm glad you had no real reply here.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Where is it confirmed by an OOU source that Valkorion > Vitiate > Nihilus?





Originally posted by The Ellimist
Vague and unquantifiable.

It would've been more appropriate to just save face and not reply at all.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Under nebulous circumstances with prep on his turf.

Both attempts were before he spent three centuries growing ever more powerful by draining energy from Revan, his captives in the Dark Temple, and his personal growth in power. Not to mention Ziost.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
True; Valkorion should be way more powerful than he demonstrably is.

What a non-reply.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Lol do you really want to set the precedent that "supreme power" can be taken literally? Just say yes if you really do, and I'm sure you know what's going to follow.

Case-to-case basis based on context has to be undertaken with Star Wars accolades regardless of the claim.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Only because you still incoherently claim that FP Murr - spirit Murr >>> FP Krayt - Vong Krayt based on this weird non-argument about Jaden Korr beating spirit Ragnos and how this works if you circularly assume stuff about Jaden and Ragnos.

ROFL. Muur's host Celeste Morne was inferior and only Vader, his children or Krayt were strong enough to release his will from the Muur Talisman and allow him a physical form. Spirits are factually limited. To claim Muur in his prime > Muur in his spirit is common fvcking sense Ell.

Nowhere have I stated Muur > FP Krayt, nevermind >>> FP Krayt

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Then you should vote for Vader kek, because your plan to demand a recount doesn't get helped if Vader gets placed lower and it appears that he has less support.

Not the way it works, kek.

samappo
Originally posted by Pessimystic
Why is your only argument scaling Ellim? You're like a Jew when someone criticises Israel, you invoke the Holocaust and Anti-Semitism and move on.

Sounds like you can't refute the argument, so you opt to ad hominem attacks instead.

LordOfTheLight
Vader. Without a doubt.

Pessimystic
Originally posted by samappo
Sounds like you can't refute the argument, so you opt to ad hominem attacks instead.
I've never seen you refute anything, ever.

What argument? My initial comment wasn't even directed at him.

Anyway he can think whatever he wants, this isn't supposed to be a debate thread.

samappo
Can't be bothered going into refuting most of the time. I've had enough of the Vader vs Asokha argument from Quanchi, god that sucked.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by samappo
Asokha Holy **** that spelling

https://78.media.tumblr.com/57d76ba2daf680e5f7702cdba541f60e/tumblr_mmhu7hHS6C1qjtafeo1_400.gif

Pessimystic
Have you actually morphed into a female?

cs_zoltan
Vader.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Pessimystic
Have you actually morphed into a female? Oh, I'm sorry, am I supposed to be imitating your menstruation-fueled whining? You're getting your blood all over the forum. erm

Pessimystic
Tell me, what difference is there between regular whining and menstruation-fueled whining Joker?

|King Joker|
The latter is a lot messier. sick

The Ellimist
I didn't know Joker was one to make politically incorrect jokes.

Pessimystic
Maybe women are allowed to make menstrual jokes, like only blacks are allowed to say n.igger? So Joker gets a pass.

DarthAnt66
-

|King Joker|
Please stop projecting your own insecurities of your manhood onto me. It's pathetically transparent, lmfao.

DarthAnt66
ANAKIN (9):
DarthAnt66
The Ellimist
samappo
Greysentinel365
Azronger
JKBart
Rebel95
LordOfTheLight
cs_zoltan

VALKORION (6):
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
AncientPower
Trocity
Lord Stark
Pessimystic
Dark-Kenshin

Pessimystic
Yep, that's it. People who have a strong distaste for something are just projecting their insecurities thumb up

This is a ridiculous statement used only when you have nothing else to respond with. Pretty pathetic honestly, not that I expected much.

The_Tempest
I'll vote Anakin.

Given that Satele is presumably more sensitive to the Force than the vast majority of Force users, her reaction to valkorion's death doesn't necessarily mean anything. Just as Yoda alone reacted to the psychic disturbances created by Order 66 whereas we didn't see anything similar from other Masters.

samappo
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'll vote Anakin.

Given that Satele is presumably more sensitive to the Force than the vast majority of Force users, her reaction to valkorion's death doesn't necessarily mean anything. Just as Yoda alone reacted to the psychic disturbances created by Order 66 whereas we didn't see anything similar from other Masters.

Nice observation.

samappo
I've voted Anakin, his side of the argument has proven to be more persuasive for me.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Pessimystic
Yep, that's it. People who have a strong distaste for something are just projecting their insecurities thumb up

This is a ridiculous statement used only when you have nothing else to respond with. Pretty pathetic honestly, not that I expected much. And your "strong distaste" definitely seems to be manifesting from a source of insecurity. I've not met a single secure man who whines about perceived effeminacies like you. Only little boys who are desperate for validation. Really, though; keep it up: you're genuinely amusing. laughing out loud

And nah, dude. You just don't warrant much legitimate attention, lol.

Pessimystic
My hatred for effeminate men and queers stems from my Christian beliefs.

God calls them abominations, so I believe them to be of less value than dirt.

The fact that you think you're such a respected member that you would patronise me speaks to your arrogance. You're an embarrassment

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Pessimystic
My hatred for effeminate men and queers stems from my Christian beliefs.

God calls them abominations, so I believe them to be of less value than dirt.

The fact that you think you're such a respected member that you would patronise me speaks to your arrogance. You're an embarrassment.
Is this a sock of LeGenD?

samappo
That's straight up reportable ... I suggest you do that Joker.

Pessimystic
Religious beliefs are reportable? Yes Joker report it, that's something you and your ilk of soyboys do well.

Worst thing that happens, I get banned and come back. It's pointless.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Pessimystic
My hatred for effeminate men and queers stems from my Christian beliefs.

God calls them abominations, so I believe them to be of less value than dirt. An even better reason for your complete dismissal. thumb up

Originally posted by Pessimystic
The fact that you think you're such a respected member that you would patronise me speaks to your arrogance. You're an embarrassment. The fact that you think I'm patronizing you because I think I'm "such a respected member" and not because of the fact you're a moron is hilarious. You're akin to a 14-year-old 4chan edgelord. You deserve no respect by literally anybody on this forum or in real life. Now either stem your bleeding or stop posting altogether, you're exhausting, lol.

AncientPower
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'll vote Anakin.

Given that Satele is presumably more sensitive to the Force than the vast majority of Force users, her reaction to valkorion's death doesn't necessarily mean anything. Just as Yoda alone reacted to the psychic disturbances created by Order 66 whereas we didn't see anything similar from other Masters.

If only she was the only one who reacted.

Pessimystic
> "You don't warrant much legitimate attention."

> keeps replying and bitching

|King Joker|
pissimystic thinks i'm giving him legitimate attention

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b1c2232099e7e73a34588d72ec3897fd/tenor.gif

samappo
Originally posted by Pessimystic
My hatred for effeminate men and queers stems from my Christian beliefs.

God calls them abominations, so I believe them to be of less value than dirt.

The fact that you think you're such a respected member that you would patronise me speaks to your arrogance. You're an embarrassment

1. You've indirectly called Joker a queer in an obviously disrespectful way

2. You state that your beliefs stem from your christian values, then proceed to explain that these values that you believe in include the view of "queers" (implicating Joker) as abominations and of less value than dirt.

Joker, I suggest making sure in your report that if possible the admin can log his IP in order to prevent him from making sock accounts, if that's possible.

|King Joker|
Please, samappo, I've dealt with his type my entire life: he doesn't scathe me. smile

Pessimystic
Originally posted by samappo
1. You've indirectly called Joker a queer in an obviously disrespectful way

2. You state that your beliefs stem from your christian values, then proceed to explain that these values that you believe in include the view of "queers" (implicating Joker) as abominations and of less value than dirt.

Joker, I suggest making sure in your report that if possible the admin can log his IP in order to prevent him from making sock accounts, if that's possible.

1. Oh dear indeed I have. I better call him one directly, Joker you're a queer.

2. Yes and...?

This is such a cringey statement to read from a male. Who cares? Why do you care appo? Just virtue signalling?

Also, there's a little thing called VPN...

Pessimystic
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Please, samappo, I've dealt with his type my entire life: he doesn't scathe me. smile
Stunning. Brave. Inspiring.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Pessimystic
Stunning. Brave. Inspiring. Maybe, if you guys weren't such pushovers, lmao.

The Ellimist
Joker, not entirely related to this but why do you think the Left has drifted more and more towards refusing to debate or entertain certain arguments on basis of offensiveness rather than logical/empirical accuracy? It's disconcerting and frankly despite my political leanings I find myself cringing at Beni, Neph and sometimes you more than I do even Ziggy.

Eg: If Ziggy said "poor people tend to be stupider than rich people" lots of liberals would freak out even though on careful thought it's obviously true. I understand people need to obey some social policies irl but a lot of peoole seem to take this as an actual fundamental logical deduction.

samappo
I do believe there's a trend there Ellimist. Repeating slogans appears to be a substitute to reasoned debate among the left. Usually the appear to claim that the right are immoral and therefore debate with them is pointless.

DarthAnt66
@Elm: In this context, Joker is totally justified for not engaging in a debate.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Elm: In this context, Joker is totally justified for not engaging in a debate.

Possibly hence why I clarified I wasn't talking about that specifically.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The Ellimist
not entirely related

Implication is that it's at least 3% related. ^

The Ellimist
lol well it was also a political question.

AncientPower
Back on topic. . .

Given Vitiate was capable of consuming the galaxy as of Shadow of Revan, without the Dark Ritual. I'm not seeing how he isn't actually banned from this list to be honest.



The Emperor changed his goals after this though:

The Ellimist
Are you suggesting Vitiate should be banned from versus debates? Maybe you should make a thread on it. smile

Pessimystic
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Elm: In this context, Joker is totally justified for not engaging in a debate.

Firstly, he did.

Secondly, look at the facts. I attacked Joker for being effeminate and he never refuted/denied it. I stated why I believed it to be a bad thing, nothing but replies filled "lol", "lmao" and encouragement from a fellow beta to report me.

samappo
Love being a fellow beta smile

Pessimystic
And I pity you for that. This is what is happening to men everywhere.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by samappo
I do believe there's a trend there Ellimist. Repeating slogans appears to be a substitute to reasoned debate among the left. Usually the appear to claim that the right are immoral and therefore debate with them is pointless.

Yeah this is why Milo has a job.

AncientPower
What the fvck does this have to do with anything?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
AP, isn't the Hero just asking how Vitiate is going to trigger the ritual again?

AncientPower
No. Because Marr states that he'd kill them all on Yavin IV and then consume all life in the galaxy. The Hero says that he had a ritual when he tried the first time which he stopped. So how could he possibly try a second time without it.

Hall Hood's comments support the idea that he would've continued toward his goal but Zakuul changed his mind.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Joker, not entirely related to this but why do you think the Left has drifted more and more towards refusing to debate or entertain certain arguments on basis of offensiveness rather than logical/empirical accuracy? It's disconcerting and frankly despite my political leanings I find myself cringing at Beni, Neph and sometimes you more than I do even Ziggy. Honestly, I think the idea that "the Left" as a whole have all withdrawn into oversensitive shells and refuse debates is kind of exaggerated. I think there have been some highly publicized instances of this happening and it gets exaggerated. I'd agree that there is a problem, though, but I'm not entirely sure why it's happening. I imagine the case is different for every person. But the phenomena, in general, may be because of the fact that Western society has recently been cultivated to be more tolerant and accepting, and some people perceive "the Right" to be a threat to the more comforting environment established. At least, this could be the case for SJW women, homosexuals, transgenders, etc. Some of these SJWs still believe Western society is a shit-hole for them, but they probably believe they're making progress and perceive "the Right" as a threat to that progress.

I'm just spitballing, though. But contrary to what appears to be your opinion of me, I'm not an SJW.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Eg: If Ziggy said "poor people tend to be stupider than rich people" lots of liberals would freak out even though on careful thought it's obviously true. I understand people need to obey some social policies irl but a lot of peoole seem to take this as an actual fundamental logical deduction. Well generally I see the "poor people are " comments coming from people who want to abolish certain safety nets, and so I think some of the animosity directed towards those people is because those comments seem like dismissive excuses for their own policies. With the specific example you brought up, though, I think a negative reaction would most likely occur regardless of political leanings. Imagine if Trump said something similar on the campaign trail, for example. I doubt much of his base would tolerate comments like that.

But as to your general point, some defensive reactions may just be rooted in personal experience. If someone was poor or is poor, or have friends/family who is poor, the natural and expected reaction from most people would be one of dismissal and anger. And I think that's probably the case with a decent amount examples you could bring forth.

In general, we should actively cultivate an environment for open discussion, but in turn, not necessarily indulge in blatant provocateurs with disingenuous intentions, because I think they're damaging to legitimate discourse. Not indulging =/= censoring, though, of course.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by samappo
Nice observation.

👍

cs_zoltan
I change my vote to Joker.

Greysentinel365
Meanwhile us Centrists are grabbing the popcorn for this amazing thread.

Geistalt
Knightfall Vader.

Nephthys
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion.

Pessimystic
Originally posted by Greysentinel365
Meanwhile us Centrists are grabbing the popcorn for this amazing thread.

Haha us Centrists are so reasonable amirite?

Beniboybling
Anakin.

Beniboybling
and wow, pessy got put through a meat grinder. 🤭

Pessimystic
So blinded by your own extreme bias you think Joker is right. What happened to you Beni?

Beniboybling
You got anally penetrated by a gay man pessy. how embarrassing sad

Pessimystic
I must be missing something here, Joker never even came close to an ownage. He was wrong and nothing he said addressed anything.

But keep on living in this fantasy Beni.

Ursumeles
Vader.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Pessimystic
I must be missing something here, Joker never even came close to an ownage. He was wrong and nothing he said addressed anything.

But keep on living in this fantasy Beni. denial is usually the first stage of grief. I will leave u to mourn the loss of your virginity sad

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'll vote Anakin.

Given that Satele is presumably more sensitive to the Force than the vast majority of Force users, her reaction to valkorion's death doesn't necessarily mean anything. Just as Yoda alone reacted to the psychic disturbances created by Order 66 whereas we didn't see anything similar from other Masters.

I'm inclined to give AP's argument more weight considering the mere act of unveiling the Emperor's Children caused a huge turbulence in the Force described as their darkness screaming at the Jedi.

Pessimystic
Originally posted by Beniboybling
denial is usually the first stage of grief. I will leave u to mourn the loss of your virginity sad
Even mockery and sarcasm loses it's impact after a while.

This is getting old.

Nephthys
And in my experience "the Left" is disinclined to debate because "the Right" tend to be incredibly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. What Ellimist is missing for context is the literal years of attempted debate that ultimately went nowhere due to those and other factors.

Pessimystic
Because you've been debating the old Bill O'Reilly Boomer right...

Nephthys
Lol, I debated Darth Sexy and let me tell you, that guy freaking wished he was a Boomer so damn hard.

Pessimystic
I hate Boomers more than Liberals. So much cringe when they talk about anything, especially Foreign Policy.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm inclined to give AP's argument more weight considering the mere act of unveiling the Emperor's Children caused a huge turbulence in the Force described as their darkness screaming at the Jedi.

I might share your inclination if AP's argument was actually supported by evidence. What you just offered doesn't qualify.

KMCadmin
Valkorion lol.

S_W_LeGenD
What is the point of these polls?

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I might share your inclination if AP's argument was actually supported by evidence. What you just offered doesn't qualify.

I admit that I've been out of the loop on Swtor so it would be good if Satele's actual statement was posted (or at least where its from) but from what I've found it looks like AP is being accurate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What is the point of these polls?

Just say you vote for Valkorion already.

S_W_LeGenD
^^^

I see no point.

Nephthys
Then you are no true Valkorion fan. >:[

Beniboybling
laughing out loud

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
I admit that I've been out of the loop on Swtor so it would be good if Satele's actual statement was posted (or at least where its from) but from what I've found it looks like AP is being accurate.



Just say you vote for Valkorion already.

By all means, please post what you've found that proves all Satele tier Force users and below were rendered unconscious by Valk'a death.

KMCadmin
Originally posted by The_Tempest
By all means, please post what you've found that proves all Satele tier Force users and below were rendered unconscious by Valk'a death.
Prove they weren't lol.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
^^^

I see no point. I see no point to a lot of things, including posting on a random internet forum and partaking in "debates" that never have any meaningful resolution. stick out tongue

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
By all means, please post what you've found that proves all Satele tier Force users and below were rendered unconscious by Valk'a death.

I said that I don't have "proof" since I stopped playing after Valk died. I saw people on the forums mentioning Satele talking about Valk dying and feeling it or something.

And AP only said it threatened to knock them out.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
I said that I don't have "proof" since I stopped playing after Valk died. I saw people on the forums mentioning Satele talking about Valk dying and feeling it or something.

And AP only said it threatened to knock them out.

This isn't particularly convincing.

Pessimystic
Originally posted by Nephthys
I stopped playing after Valk died.

Pretty sure everyone did, it was a shitty scene tbh.

The Ellimist
@King Joker suspending this conversation for the sake of staying on topic.

Can someone give a list of Valkorion's off-nexus, non-ritual, non-prep feats again? It's basically all pre-Nathema stuff.

DarthAnt66
Bump.

hutchy1345
Valk

DarthAnt66
ANAKIN (13):
DarthAnt66
The Ellimist
samappo
Greysentinel365
Azronger
JKBart
Rebel95
LordOfTheLight
cs_zoltan
The_Tempest
Geistalt
Beniboybling
Ursumeles

VALKORION (8):
XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
AncientPower
Trocity
Lord Stark
Pessimystic
Dark-Kenshin
Nephthys
hutchy1345

DarthAnt66
Does anyone know who "KMCadmin" is? Should I count his vote?

cs_zoltan
Sounds like a sock.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion.

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Does anyone know who "KMCadmin" is? Should I count his vote? Clearly an upstanding gentleman we can trust! thumb up

Selenial
Anakin.

S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion.

Selenial
@Ellim: if you and Joker continue that anywhere link me.

IQ_test
If someone can debunk Valkorions' zoist feat then he gets rated below the dirt and the worms quite frankly.

NewGuy01
Vader smile

Azronger
Originally posted by IQ_test
If someone can debunk Valkorions' zoist feat then he gets rated below the dirt and the worms quite frankly.

It's been debunked already.

AncientPower
laughing out loud

No it hasn't, you just can't read.

ILS
Gotta be Anakin at this rate

Prof. T.C McAbe
The chosen one

Haschwalth
Valkorian

|King Joker|
I'll go with Valkorion.

Emperordmb
LOL I guess getting some sleep didn't work out

|King Joker|
it rarely does

https://78.media.tumblr.com/439d0c72c5b4855cb2a16c4ac946b1f1/tumblr_otnmscV7CD1qk7scno2_250.gif

Azronger
Come back to the elite brother

Beniboybling
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I'll go with Valkorion. what the hell

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