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how come their seems to be a color code in the movies,(blue:trainee green:jedi,master:red sith) and in the books it makes no difference?

In ANH Obi-Won's saber is blue, not green like the jedi/master he is.

Ha Ha SolarDarth! You were toldid you wuz!

I doubt there is an absolute color code for level of Jedi rank. I think the saber's come that way.

I don't see why the color of the saber matters, aside from style.
And the question I have is where do the crystals used in the
making of the sabers come from? I'm not sure but for all I know
these crystals could be hard to come by. And if that's the case
then maybe there isn't much of a choice in the color of the saber
you have, you take whatever crystal you are blessed with. Any
help on where the crystals come from would be grateful.

In the EU the length of the blade and the coulor are determined
by the size, cut and type of Jewels used. There is no special
jewel named, in fact Ruby, Sapphire, Diamond and Emeralds have
all been mention in different EU novels.

Also, in the
Novel "I Jedi" there is a realy good decription of
the process of making a lightsabre and the "Force Meditation2
that is required to complete the construction. It is said to
take as long as 40 days to complet but in extreme circumstances
can be done in as little as 3-5 days but the quality of the unit
will suffer as a result and it can be a great strain on the Jedi
practicing the meditation.

Hey I thought you had to register to post?

Looks like another bug from last nights upgrade. There are a
ton of problmes with the upgrade on the support forum.

If you can confirm that the option is set on the entire forum
then you can log it there.

I'd like it if we saw a yellow lightsabre. That would look cool
I think.
And by the way, I'm not entirely sure, but I think
that the crystals used for making a lightsabre come from the
planet Arkania.

I think this is anotehr case of different EU authors having different sources for the saber jewels.

Yeah I only said Arkania because that's the only planet I know that's famous for crystals. Isn't there meant to be a phrase, something like, "I wouldn't miss this for all the diamonds in Arkania!"

I don't know, but then I probably wouldnb't remember a throwaway line like that. Sounds like something Han or Lando would say though.

I have read somewhere that the blade colour and length vary depending on the jewel though.

you're right

Technical point....diamonds and crystals aren't the same thing are that?..

Well what's the difference? Is diamond a TYPE of crystal like emerald or ruby? Or are they gems? Oh I have no idea what I'm talking about do I?

No...but neither do I

Here's what a crystal is...

Crystals are solids that form by a regular repeated pattern of molecules connecting together. In some solids, the arrangements of the building blocks (atoms and molecules) can be random or very different throughout the material. In crystals, however, a collections of atoms called the Unit Cell is repeated in exactly the same arrangement over and over throughout the entire material.

Because of this repetitive nature, crystals can take on strange and interesting looking forms naturally. When we grow crystals we are separating all the building block molecules into individual units in water and letting them fall naturally into their appropriate place in the repetitive structure as the water evaporates.

Then I found this while reading up on diamonds...

In the atomic structure of diamond, as determined by X-ray diffraction techniques, each carbon atom is linked to four equidistant neighbours throughout the crystal. This close-knit, dense, strongly bonded crystal structure yields diamond properties that differ greatly from those of graphite, native carbon's other form.
---------------------------------------------------------

So, to make a long story short...a diamond IS a crystal... (I think it would have been easier to just keep my mouth shut on this one)

Glad that's cleared up. Now I was just wondering, would you need to use emeralds to make a green lighsabre, rubies for a red and so on? Or is it something else that determines the colours?

that's exactly it daft, the color depends the type of jewel

Nope...the color depends on the color of the jewel not the type...a blue diamond and a yellow diamond give off different reflections...so that would mean that they would give off different colors.

nope.. it says in the new dark tide books that it's the type of jewel

I also heard that it depends on the color of the crystal. But I wonder, has Lucas ever said how lightsabers are made?

In I JEDI the blade colour and length is absed on the type of jewel (colour) and the size of the jewel.

I just looked at the VD and it shows the crystals inside Luke's lightsabre as being just plain white-translucent colour yet I don't remember his sabre ever being white (well maybe when the effects went a bit dodgy but that's about it), so I'm now presuming that it depends on something other than the colour of the jewel.

I don't know the visual dictionary but I heard it was the most ropey resource going when it came to mucking up the facts???

But how can we work out what is fact at all? Unless GL explains it in the future then could any of the source books be correct? Perhaps this is another matter that holds many different answers and will never truly be answered.

Oh I know, what I meant is I heard it was "less official" but I may be mistaken. Is it a fully authorise book? As I said, I've never seen it.

I'm surprised you've never seen it, I thought it was quite famous as a source book. And it is most certainly an official lucasfilm book. It was wrote by the same guy who wrote the incredible cross-section books and it is full of hundreds of photos that can be found nowhere else, so I'm sure only Lucasfilm books could have had access to such archives.

I'll have to look it out. I hope that eventually they will come up with some definative books on the whole of the 2 trilogies and EU and then make authors stick to them.

Yeah a MASSIVE source book explaining EVERYTHING Star Wars would be cool. It would have to be mighty huge though.

yeah, frikkin 600 pages

Isn't there a massive encyclopedia for Star Trek?
(Sorry to bring that up. I know it hurts when those two words are put together)

Probably, but it can't be any where near complete until EpII&III are complete.

To the best of my knowledge I don't think Lucas has ever mentioned the particulars of how a lightsaber is made. It would be cool to see in one of the next two movies.

I heard Anakin gets his blue crystal from Amidala as a gift.

Where did you hear that? Sounds like something someone's made up, although I guess it could be true.

I don't really remeber.

this whole topic is EU

Not entirely. We've been discussing if we'll find out more about the colours of lightsabres in future films.

And also whether a canon method of lightsaber construction will finally be revealed.

If we donb't see it in Episode-II I doubt we ever will. I don't think there will be tiome top expore this in EpIII. There will be too much other stuff happening (I hope!!!)

<sigh> I've decided to bring back this topic for various reasons.1) Rick MCallum stated that there are only three colors of lightsabers( Son of A B***) Blue, Green, Red.2) I hate Rick MCallum, and want to yell at him in public.3) that crazy lightsaber sight said that blue means "Passive" green means"direct", and red means "evil".4) I want to yell at the creator of that site in public. that's about it.

I hate the idea of only having 3 colors of lightsabers(lightsabers being my favorite aspect of Star Wars) and if We don't see different color lightsabers by Ep.3 I am giving up Star Wars. (no, not really, but that's how I feel)
and I don't think that all the crystals in the universe are blue, green, and red.

Actually I think it makes sence with only green, blue and red. And I guess there are some purple crystals as well, in the real universe there are, very rear but it excists.

I can't believe for a minute that blue, green and red are the only colours. We've seena white blade, although it may have just been a very pale blue.

Also, I expect to see Sam Jackson sporting a purple blade. If they restrict the colours like that it will make the saber battles very boring, I was really looking forward to a mass Jedi battle with many different blade colours flashing about.

where have we seen white Ratcat?

the very first toy lightsabers were white, I don't know if that counts, but wasn't the original design for lightsabers gonna be white?? Finti, why does it make sense to have three colors, all the jewels are rare, and come in various colors

You listed the reasons yourself and think about it. It actually fits what we have seen so far. I know crystals are rare, but some more than others.

I see.. and what exaclty does it "fit" Finti??

Hey, Merc! You looked at the crazy site! You guys should be careful what you say about crystals. The guy who runs that site has very high and mighty opinions about THEM as well...

Mind you, he does make some good points, like the fact that Lightsabres cannot be anything to do with 'light' at all because they cast a shadow...

Anakin calls it a lasersword as well. Laser is light.

Well, I would imagine he calls it a Lasersword in the same way that everyone else calls it a lightsabre- becuase that's what it looks like (quite why GL chose not to use the word 'lightsabre' in the entire of TPM is beyond me, however), but the evidence (like the shadows, and that it doesn't seem to emanate heat) is very much against it. Not that you want to get TOO technical on such a fantasy notion, of course...

As for the colours, certainly there seems no consistent logical reason that anyone can come up with to explain what they mean. That in mind, quite why there should be only three colours is beyond me, but that does seem to be the way the wind is blowing.

Someone's going to question my comment about it not emanating heat now, aren't they? I assure you it's true.

ehh, good point Ushgrak, I..guess. Since there has actually been 3 video games with different colored lightsabers, I don't think GL would want to confuse the fans(unless of course, he is a heartless S.O.B.).

Okay...I'm confused..where did it say that they don't generate heat?...and what's all this about they're not light because they cast a shadow?...The Sun casts shadows, so why can't a lightsaber?

right on DIM!!

BUt the sun doesn't cast a shadow of itself. But if you stuck a BIGGER sun behind it then it would. So maybe the ambient light is defracted by the baldes containment and therefore you get a shadow.

As to the White blades. Wasn't Lukes original sabre (Anakins old one) white? Or was it a very pale blue?

I could have sworn it was pale blue

Several things:

First of all read The Science of Star Wars, it explains why a lightsaber is not really light, but probably plasma.

Gems of all kinds can be used. The most common are Adegan crystals and Corusca gems, but diamonds and even pearls have been used.

There has already been a purple lightsaber(Gantoris & then Kyp) and a yellow one(Leia). So if it is true that there are only three colors then continuity will be thrown off.

And George Lucas is a heartless S.0.B. He will through off continuity whenever possible. He doesn't care what happened in the novels, he will just contradict it.

I'm starting not to like GL for any other reason besides his movies, has he actually done anything good besides that?? Anyways, this all goes back to a discovery I made while I was a freshman in high school, I had just gotten off the bus, it was a warm day, the sun was out, I was carrying an empty mountain dew bottle, when I looked down and noticed that the shadow the green bottle was casting was green!! I was amazed at this, I don't know if this does anything for this topic.

Ok, I will now defend myself (with canonical sources, at that).

The lightsabre itself has s shadow, cast in the normal way from other light sources. Therefore, no matter what, it MUST be a solid object, and therefore cannot be light or laser or any energy form like that at all.

Supplementary evidence for it being a physical object- because it ACTS like one! Best example I can give is Qui-Gon, who is clearly IMPALED on Maul's sabre. If the sabre had no phsycial presence, Qui-Gon would have simply and messily fallen through it when Maul stabbed him.

As for the heat... anything that generates enough heat to melt a bulkhead would do far more than the sabres do. For eaxample, the snow on Hoth should have been melting around Han and Luke when they turned on their sabres their. Further more, Qui-Gon's clothing should have caught fire when he was impaled.

Now... I could explain how the sabre PROBABLY works, based on what we've seen (explaining why exactly the door melts if the sabre doesn't produce heat... it's perfectly consistent in scientific models, just look at microwaves...) but it really does get tiresome after a while.

what were you defending yourself from Ushgrak??

Those people who wanted to know what I meant by no heat, and so on. Perhaps I should have said 'explain'

why do you keep saying canonical??

But light is actually a particle, well a particle wave anyway. Now it's been a long time but I'm sure I remember a part of my old physics lesson that says that light is a kind of hybrid physical particl and a wave at the same time....

Also, how can a pearly be used, a pearl isn't a crystal...

Pearls are so cool!! I love their shimmer!!

Anyways, After taking AP physics while a Senior in high school ( ) I think that's exactly what it is RC

Bummer post here. Isn't all this just some bogus explanation for the fact that the actual metal rods they used to fight with in the shoot, may have cast the shadow?

Personally, it's kind of interesting, but it's a lot of bogus science. It's a movie guys! Not a science project.

If you want to look into something really interesting, there's a site (don't know the address anymore) which thoroughly goes past all Anakin's injuries. In the X-Ray flash frames in ROTJ when Vader's hit by Palpy's lightning, it shows which parts of his skeleton have been replaced by metal. No, that's real cool and medical-scientifically quite strong. But that is off topic of course.

And I hate to be contrary here but there are some good reasons for thinking that the crystals have nothing to do with the colour of the blade...

A simple piece of coloured filter might just do the trick.

Damn straight!

Mind you, they did go to the trouble of cleaning up the lightsabre shadows for the Special Editions, to make them look better- nor were they removed with the fabulous computer tech in TPM. I am pretty sure the shadow casting is entirely correct, and not just a side-effect of filming.

It might be. So what you're saying is that the blade consists of two beams of light, one brighter than the other?

No. In fact, the 'light' part of the lightsabre is probably just a side effect. There is something solid there, or it wouldn't cast a shadow, nor would it impale an unfortunate Jedi Master. And once there is something solid involved, the role of the crystal in the hilt changes dramatically.

Okay I see. Well I agree that the light effect becomes solid, otherwise sabres couldn't even clash like they do. But plasma? Maybe it has something to do with a very high concentration of light that makes the beam solid.

Yes, a focused beam of light (particle wave) energy that whilst having form and substance has no discernable weight to speak of...

Yes, some sort of hi-tech 'super-light' may fit the bill, but in many ways the whole sabre thing does not look like an optical phenomenon. Here are the theories on sabre design I got from the Australian nuttter who runs that site...

1. Monofilament Cahin (largely discounted)
2. Tightly-focused field (a sort of mini forcefield generator, used offensively)
3. (Deep breath) Arc-fold-back-electromagnetic-waterfall, as suggested by West End Games, to do with magnetic poles.
4. Field-contained substance- lethal cutting stuff held in a forcefield (as we know, forcefields can hold energy, but pass through physical objects)
5. Self-contained substance- The plasma model, as discussed above. Some kind of energy cutting-stuff that can hold a solid form
6. Combination of the two above (a bit weird)
7. "Virtual light produced from a spinning field surface"
A highly complex based-in-physics theory, taking advantage of the light-as-both-particle-and-wave stuff also discussed above. It too uses a 'hi-tech light' reasoning.
8. A conmtained gravitic well. Like havigna portable black hole sword!

This may all sound a bit mad... and it is. But if you like your pseudo-tech, there are plenty of pros and cons for each model.

criminy, I didn't think this topic would take such a turn on the scientific side, sweet Nal Hutta it is only a movie

AH! Someone used the 'it's only a movie' get-out clause! Heretic!

Ok, I'll dump this line if people want, or else I can harp on about it FOREVER...

?? you know, if you can make sense just once, somebody may ne able to understand you

You're an odd person, Merc, you know that? I made a quip about your "it's only a film" comment, and then offered to stop talking about the sabre tech if people thought it was too silly. Was it really that hard to understand?

I'm sorry Ush, it's just that I'm a little on edge right now, I just got robbed last night.

forgive me....please.

Well, hey, no problem. Gee. I hoep you're alright.

Ush, what was this Australian site you keep talking about. I can't find a link to it in this topic anywhere...

I put it in a different topic- the "Art of the Lightsabre" one.

It is www.synicon.com.au/sw/

The man is very observant, and makes loads of good points, but he is also totally insane, and sometimes fixates onto things without much justifcation and rants for hours about them.

And you should see what he has to say about the EU! That's quite a chip on his shoulder!

His lightsabre section is absolutely marvellous, though, and is a must for any fan.

And he has a forum too, hehehe, could have some fun.

The problem is of course that we look at it from our (limited?) scientific POV's. Science in SW is totally unknown and when it isn't it EU. But it would be fun to speculate how one could make one. Now, who has any decent in-depth scientific knowledge, let's make a draft alternative and send it to this guy, saying he's all wrong.

LOL, you just wanna upset someone don't you.

Yep. When you're that seriously in-depth on a fairty-tale weapon, it's time to wake up.

<starts crying>

*pats JM on the shoulder*

There, there. You're a big boy now. It's time you found out: SW is not real.

Does anyone remember that report on TF.N about the "real laser swords" ???

I haven't seen that, but there is a book called "The Science of Star Wars" and its pretty interesting. It just talks about what things in the SW are and are not possible.

Oh, I heard of that one yeah. Well this article was late last year and showed how they made this "sword" using plasma or something. It wasn't a light sward as such cos it had a slid central element.

Cool. So it had a rod that gave light. I have two, they're made of plastic.

But seriously, did it cut things or just give light?

<bawls> I can't stop crying, Queeq, you big meanie-head

There are four problems with coming up with a theory for sabres that will embarrass that guy:

1. You will note that he has removed his e-mail addrwss from the site because people kept flaming him, and I don't think we want to start a precedent by muscling in on his (equally weird) forum. He doesn't strike as as the sort who listends to people, anyway.

2. The guy has pretty much all the bases covered, science-wise

3. I rather like his theories... on the sabres, anyway. He is less clear elsewhere.

4. If anyone has as much time on his hands as that man MUST do, there is a problem somewhere. That said, I do.

Still, if someone can come up with a good idea, I wouldn't mind puncturing his smugness a little.

it's not only because GL has created ranks for the lightsabers and jedi, but, green, blue, and red are actually very dull colors otherwise.

And the only reason the green came along was because blue didn't show up against the sky in ROTJ...

I don't want Star Wars to be a three color world(lightsaber wise, that is).

Mind you, it is POSSIBLE to justify the use of the colours by rank, but only if you accept a couple of what-ifs...

If we assume Red is bad guy, Blue is Knight and Green is Master...

Obi-Wan is using a Blue sabre an ANH. But did he actually ever become a Master? The Jedi were wiped out when he was very young for Masterhood, so he may well have never had a chance, and he refers tom himself as a Knight rathee than a Master. Hence his blue sabre.

And Luke's green sabre in ROTJ... well, you have to go with the "it's made out of Qui-Gon's" theory.

But it is all rather tenuous. Rumour has it that Obi-Wan DOES become a Master, despite his age, during the Prequel trilogy. And the Qui-Gon's sabre thing is totally guesswork

There might be a thing in the meaning of these colours.

Red= masculine, aggressive, passionate, blood
Blue= feminine, calm, pacified, balanced
Green= Calm, natural, soothing

Maybe the colours say more about the characters than and the nature of the Jedi. Also they are complementary colours so they match well together when they fight.

who cares if they match?? I don't even think they can pick the color.

I think queeq's got a point..it might be more about matching personality...

how does that make sense??

It's a visual clue, Merc..I'm talking about in a cinamatic sense...

topic closed.