Superman One Million Vs Death Seed Sentry

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riv6672
https://i.imgflip.com/24oqiv.jpg

No prep.
No BFR.

https://i.imgflip.com/24oqjn.jpg

RealityWarper
Easy win for Sentry. SOM has no ways to beat him.

xJLxKing
Superman easily

riv6672
Easily a tie, dangit boxed2

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
Easily a tie, dangit boxed2

A tie ?

Nice joke.

SOM is powerful for a Superman rip off but that's all.

Sentry is on a whole other tier.

riv6672
Dude, no offense, though i'm sure you'll take offense, but you say 'has no ways to beat him' in every thread re: Sentry you post in.
You say it, and just keep saying it, post after post.
You're pretty biased on the character.

So, until and if, some other posters chime in, yeah its a tie.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
Dude, no offense, though i'm sure you'll take offense, but you say 'has no ways to beat him' in every thread re: Sentry you post in.
You say it, and just keep saying it, post after post.
You're pretty biased on the character.

So, until and if, some other posters chime in, yeah its a tie.

You pretend it's a tie based on ?

I'm very well versed on both characters.

I have my reasons to say that SOM has no way to beat him.

I like how you are calling me biased and give no reason to make SOM at least a threat for Sentry.

Personal attacks lead you that far.

Nice job. thumb up

riv6672
Originally posted by RealityWarper
You pretend it's a tie based on ?

The fact that there's two posts, one for one against.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
The fact that there's two posts, one for one against.

laughing out loud

It doesn't make it a tie between the characters.

A versus fight isn't a popularity vote.

riv6672
I didnt say it was a tie between the characters you dumbass, its a tie as to who's weighed in on the subject.

I'm about to log off, but if you want to continue posting shit, please do, it'll be nice to read your rants when i get back later.

Dareangel
superman 1 million while indeed having many powers, only demonstrated real level of power with his force vision. what did he do with his force vision? failed to stop a charging galaxy but achieved it with titano. held solaris until it exhausted itself but again with the help of green lantern. so if thats his most powerful tool as far as we got to see, i dont think it can defeat death sentry to be honest. i mean his best feats with his best tool is failling to achieve the goal by himself and needing help

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Dareangel
superman 1 million while indeed having many powers, only demonstrated real level of power with his force vision. what did he do with his force vision? failed to stop a charging galaxy but achieved it with titano. held solaris until it exhausted itself but again with the help of green lantern. so if thats his most powerful tool as far as we got to see, i dont think it can defeat death sentry to be honest. i mean his best feats with his best tool is failling to achieve the goal by himself and needing help

Thanks. Finally someone posting something objective about SOM.

Insane Titan
SOM>>>>>>>>>>Sand Worm>>>>>>>>>>>>DS

xJLxKing

Dareangel
i cant tell you exactly i dont like to take wide guesses. however, based on what superman 1 million presented so far, i dont see him doing it. at the very least above high herald and to be honest, i dont see what superman 1 million did that is higher than an all out high herald in "i must save the world" mode.

xJLxKing

Dareangel
i will say at the very least high Trans level to even start talking. however, i honestly dont believe superman 1 million did anything special that cant be achieved by an all out high herald in "i must save the world" mode.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Dareangel
i will say at the very least high Trans level to even start talking. however, i honestly dont believe superman 1 million did anything special that cant be achieved by an all out high herald in "i must save the world" mode.

Without giving a tier, if you just compare the feats & the abilities for both, Sentry is the winner.

cdtm
Superman One Million has few feats, but the ones he has are pre crisis level.

Such as keeping two galaxies from crashing into each other, or literally punching through time as the dregs of his power.

Speed wise, he's called "faster then a tachyon".


Uncertain if he can beat Sentry though, who has plenfy of outstanding showings.

Dareangel
Originally posted by cdtm
Superman One Million has few feats, but the ones he has are pre crisis level.

Such as keeping two galaxies from crashing into each other, or literally punching through time as the dregs of his power.

Speed wise, he's called "faster then a tachyon".


Uncertain if he can beat Sentry though, who has plenfy of outstanding showings.

he couldnt stop the galaxy. he even admited and said even i cant hold back the weight of an entire galaxy. only with the help of titano he could do it.

the time punching feat, it almost killed him. secondly, his team mates said he cant do it but he can with their help and they created a portal. was the portal making it much easier on him? we dont know. 1 million also said before punching that he must use all the energy left in his cells. his special suit is known to be able to reserve the sun energy. did he tap into full power while doing so? it was implied but not sure. it would make sense wince before that, he was so depowered he couldnt fly, random robots were hurting him and he needed to actually struggle in order to rip off the wall a vent opening to escape. finally, he almost died from that feat. superboy prime did it without almost dying. i also used to go wow over this feat. but once you look at it closely...
statements about how fast or strong he is dont mean much, when feat wise, batman 1 million physically owned him. ultraman owned him. else man energy balls destroyed him. couldnt stop on his own solaris or the cronoverse monster.
the way i see it, 1 million is all hype but no feats really. i dont hate the character, just trying to be objective. the only feats where he actually manage to do something is defeating the metal man crew even when combined while he was depowered and knocking off firestorm with his breath, again while not being at full power. in all star superman, tackling all star superman to the ground stating he is more powerful. thats about it. nice feats sure, but not enough to justify half of his hype

cdtm
So he had help. It's a galaxy. That's like saying Cap helped Superman lift an infinite book.

One Big Mob

abhilegend
Exitar was only star level in power there. By Thor's admission.

It's inverse ninja law at its finest. Hulk was alone keeping the force field which stopped Exitar together.

Sentry didn't look anywhere that level of strength against Thor.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Considering he matched almost every hero on the planet in strength including Gamma Hulk, his strength is pretty high.

But it's about 50 percent of the power required to slow Exitar down who was slowly descending. Imagine if he were actually flying into the planet head first or throwing a punch...

So basically, based on one showing Sentry is about as strong as every hero on Earth but a complete peon in comparison to Exitar. Quite a wide gap. That's just in raw strength too.

Rogue was completely useless on the feat.

Sentry literally pushed against all of Exitar's might by himself.

The point was to show that the power of all heroes combined is meaningless to a cosmic being like Exitar.

Dareangel
Originally posted by cdtm
So he had help. It's a galaxy. That's like saying Cap helped Superman lift an infinite book.

how do you know which % was needed from each of them to stop the galaxy? maybe titano was doing 99% of the job? do you know the strength meassurements between those 2?

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Rogue was completely useless on the feat.

Sentry literally pushed against all of Exitar's might by himself.

The point was to show that the power of all heroes combined is meaningless to a cosmic being like Exitar. Rogue was slowing Exitar by herself though. And she was literally said to be half of the equation. If someone is slowing something by themselves, and someone else comes along to stop it, the second person did not in any way do all the work. That's the whole point of needing help.

You think all of Exitar's might is him descending really slowly? That'd be like saying everytime someone flies at someone they are using all their might. Exitar should have just descended onto The One instead of charging up a blast to kill him.
What it portrayed was an attack meant to destroy the planet and show how far above them he was. What would have happened if Exitar was flying at high speeds at them? If he started stamping around like a bull?

Adam Grimes
Exitar can't fly at high speeds. It's above his paygrade.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by abhilegend
Exitar was only star level in power there. By Thor's admission.

It's inverse ninja law at its finest. Hulk was alone keeping the force field which stopped Exitar together.

Sentry didn't look anywhere that level of strength against Thor. Thor saying he'd use his energies to feed a dying star does not make that his limit. Especially when a couple pages later Kang calls it the greatest power source in all existence.

All Hulk did was hold a machine together which held off Exitar. Hulk supplied zero power to the machine. He just allowed it to function. He was duct tape if you will. Which is all he should ever be. Hulk is the duct tape of the Marvel Universe.

Maybe. Though that could be explained that he was holding back since everything was fairly non chalant with Thor. Against Exitar he actually strained himself hard.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Rogue was slowing Exitar by herself though.

She did not. Exitar was sinking down and there was no mention of Rogue slowing him down.

https://i.imgur.com/nz25F0o.jpg





Initially she was everything they had.

Sentry came as a back-up plan only because Wasp convinced her. It doesn't mean that Rogue and Sentry are equal in power neither.



Which Rogue didn't.



Rogue needed help because she couldn't do anything at all.

Sentry did all the job.



Hey, you are strawmaning here.

The point is that Sentry was capable to oppose his own physical strength to Exitar and stop him.

Rogue's efforts weren't even noticeable by Exitar. She was an insect to him.



Exitar didn't crushed the planet with his bare hands. He had to land on it first in that precise scene, which didn't happen because his descent was stopped and Thor cleaved his face with his magical axe.



The speed is irrelevant.

Bro, don't strawman me. I never fall for it.

abhilegend
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Thor saying he'd use his energies to feed a dying star does not make that his limit. Especially when a couple pages later Kang calls it the greatest power source in all existence.


It gives an idea to how powerful it was.

Kang is full of shit like that. Especially when Havok and Sunfire raped him with absorbing the same power.

That's not how it was portrayed.

He was trying to kill Thor when that worm swallowed him. Thor wasn't even koed.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
She did not. Exitar was sinking down and there was no mention of Rogue slowing him down.






Initially she was everything they had.

Sentry came as a back-up plan only because Wasp convinced her. It doesn't mean that Rogue and Sentry are equal in power neither.



Which Rogue didn't.



Rogue needed help because she couldn't do anything at all.

Sentry did all the job.



Hey, you are strawmaning here.

The point is that Sentry was capable to oppose his own physical strength to Exitar and stop him.

Rogue's efforts weren't even noticeable by Exitar. She was an insect to him.



Exitar didn't crushed the planet with his bare hands. He had to land on it first in that precise scene, which didn't happen because his descent was stopped and Thor cleaved his face with his magical axe.



The speed is irrelevant.

Bro, don't strawman me. I never fall for it. Because Exitar was sinking down fairly fast and seemed to get really close to the buildings by the time Rogue got there. Assuming she did nothing at all, he probably should have hit way before Sentry landed.
But anyway, the only indication we have on this is Rogue was only half. Split half between 2 feet and it seems obvious the intent was 50/50.
Here's an easy real world example, go watch any video of someone bench pressing with a spotter. They fail hard on the first rep, but the spotter helps lift it up like nothing. A little help can help you accomplish a task easily. My brother used to get his tiny girlfriend to help him spot well over 3 plates.
If the intention were for Sentry to stop it alone he would have had Rogue bail out.

What is the strawman there?

A Celestial descending slowly is not the full might of a Celestial. It was just enough to crush Earth. No where in comics ever has descending ever been the full might of a character.
How am I supposed to answer this directly when there is zero proof at all that it was the absolute extent of his power? The most powerful being in the universe uses his full power to destroy a planet? Where is the scan?

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Thor saying he'd use his energies to feed a dying star does not make that his limit. Especially when a couple pages later Kang calls it the greatest power source in all existence.

Yaaas beetch...

One Big Mob
Originally posted by abhilegend
It gives an idea to how powerful it was.

Kang is full of shit like that. Especially when Havok and Sunfire raped him with absorbing the same power.

That's not how it was portrayed.

He was trying to kill Thor when that worm swallowed him. Thor wasn't even koed. An idea is not a limit.

Full of shit maybe, but there's a large contrast between solar energy and the most powerful energy source in existence. One statement from Thor does not override the entire purpose of the story or Kang's plan.
That's because Kang didn't absorb the full energy. Though not sure what them beating him with the energy has to do with anything.

It was exactly how it was portrayed. Hulk was the only one strong enough to hold the ends together. But he contributed no power to the actual machine unless I'm glancing over something since I don't feel the need to reread the scene.
If Hulk did not power the machine, then how much did he do?

He two shotted Thor though. And Thor was laying on the ground until the Worm came (Exitar strength Sentry).

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Because Exitar was sinking down fairly fast and seemed to get really close to the buildings by the time Rogue got there. Assuming she did nothing at all, he probably should have hit way before Sentry landed.
But anyway, the only indication we have on this is Rogue was only half. Split half between 2 feet and it seems obvious the intent was 50/50.
Here's an easy real world example, go watch any video of someone bench pressing with a spotter. They fail hard on the first rep, but the spotter helps lift it up like nothing. A little help can help you accomplish a task easily. My brother used to get his tiny girlfriend to help him spot well over 3 plates.
If the intention were for Sentry to stop it alone he would have had Rogue bail out.

The bench pressing with a spotter is a real bad example.

Imagine a human being with a spotter trying to stop the descent of an hydraulic press. There you have something alike the case presented.



Your comment that I've designed as a strawman.



So you are assuming that Exitar is vastly more powerful than Sentry and that he let Sentry stop him on purpose ?





That's not descending on the planet that was supposed destroying the Earth.

Exitar already did destroy the Earth with his bare hands in a previous issue.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob

It was exactly how it was portrayed. Hulk was the only one strong enough to hold the ends together. But he contributed no power to the actual machine unless I'm glancing over something since I don't feel the need to reread the scene.
If Hulk did not power the machine, then how much did he do?


That's correct.

Hulk only contributed in maintaining the EM-anchors of the machine in place.

He wasn't a power-source for the machine, nor interacted with Exitar at all.

Considering that Rogue with the power of every heroes on the planet including Hulk failed at even slowing down Exitar's descent, there is literally no chances for Hulk to do anything to Exitar on his own.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The bench pressing with a spotter is a real bad example.

Imagine a human being with a spotter trying to stop the descent of an hydraulic press. There you have something alike the case presented.



Your comment that I've designed as a strawman.



So you are assuming that Exitar is vastly more powerful than Sentry and that he let Sentry stop him on purpose ?





That's not descending on the planet that was supposed destroying the Earth.

Exitar already did destroy the Earth with his bare hands in a previous issue. Why would you use an example not applicable to the situation to highlight bad examples?
I used something where two people can accomplish something one cannot, and they can make it look easy. You used something impossible.
I know you're trying to say Rogue was human level while Sentry is hydraulic press level, but it's blatantly false, and doesn't work with the example. Not only that, but if we apply the comparison, then Exitar again would have likely just destroyed the planet easily in the time Sentry got there.

Yes. You're ignoring the question though and dancing around it. Where in all of fiction was a character shown to have their entire power contained within a descent? Where in the comic did it portray Exitar as using his entire power? Where is your proof?

Are you saying that after Exitar descends into the planet, that he has to exert more power into his limbs to destroy the planet? Which means descending was not his actual max?

Basically we have Cap already knowing the plan to some degree and saying Rogue was only half, and we also have the summary of the last issue saying Sentry AND Rogue TOGETHER stopped his descent.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nExl4iYzltA/Vm54qnG7y2I/AAAAAAAACcc/jcpvtVs9X0k/s1600-Ic42/RCO002.jpg


Even if we didn't have this, the purpose of the story was for Kang to steal the power. A little pointless when a controllable flunkie like Sentry was as powerful as Exitar according to you. It is clearly not the intention.

tkitna
Originally posted by abhilegend
Exitar was only star level in power there. By Thor's admission.

It's inverse ninja law at its finest. Hulk was alone keeping the force field which stopped Exitar together.

Sentry didn't look anywhere that level of strength against Thor.

Only in Abhi's world does Hulk have the best feat against Exitar. Lol. Typical Sentry envy at its best.

tkitna
Originally posted by abhilegend

He was trying to kill Thor when that worm swallowed him. Thor wasn't even koed.

Just please stop. Does it look like Thor was in any condition to continue?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/10/102593/3518616-0+%2813%29.jpg

Here's the next panel with Thor still laid out for a brief moment.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/10/102593/3518617-0+%2814%29.jpg

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Why would you use an example not applicable to the situation to highlight bad examples?
I used something where two people can accomplish something one cannot, and they can make it look easy. You used something impossible.

That's the point.

Exitar was physically so strong for Rogue, amped by the power of all heroes on earth, to even slow down.

I showed to you on panel that her action had no effect on Exitar.

She pushed him, boosted even more the collective power she gained with the gamma emission of the Hulk with no results.

Thus your analogy doesn't work but mine does.

Rogue was participating but she was ineffective, useless.



My example works perfectly.

See again:

Rogue tried her best and Exitar didn't even notice her, Cap & Iron Man confirmed that she gave her all out and Exitar wasn't even slowed down.

Sentry came and Exitar's descent is blocked.



That's irrelevant.

We know that Exitar can one-shot the planet with his bare-hands but that's pointless to say it.



I'm not.




Why would I assume the opposite, that he isn't moving down with as much power as he can, once his descent is blocked ?

Where is your proof that he isn't doing his best regarding to the context ?

His first goal is to land on the planet.



That's not the descent that blows the planet.

Exitar's Modus Operandis is to land on the planet and then to crush it with his bare-hands.

He did previously in the same arc. That's why the heroes asked Sentry to join them to stop Exitar's descent.



Yes, she was half of the plan, not half the power.

Sentry was a possible back-up but that wasn't determined from the start.

Initially Rogue was the only one supposed to stop him.




The summary said that they worked in concert, it doesn't give any details about the scene... Details that we already have seen on-panel.





Sentry's intention wasn't to try to kill Exitar. Just to help the Avengers stopping his descent to protect the humanity.

You must remember that Sentry was possessed by the Death Seed which makes him a pawn of the Celestials.

He was even worried at the end that the Celestials get revenge on Earth for killing Exitar.

One Big Mob

Galan007
Does Bran not have RealityWarper on ignore? Lol.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
Does Bran not have RealityWarper on ignore? Lol. thumb up

He just got back, he'll know what's what soon enough.

MrMind
Superman easily, holding off a freaking galaxy with TK alone is several magnitude above anything ds sentry has done

One Big Mob

riv6672
I'll be damned, this actually turned into good conversation.

Galan007
Originally posted by One Big Mob
This. RW was only around for like a month or so when I left.

We'll see where this heads though, he hasn't done anything to warrant it for me, he just seems really stubborn like a few others I'm sure I don't have to mention. The only person I have on ignore is h1 who I hope RW isn't as unreasonable as. I ****ing hate wall posters.
I looked at a couple of his posts in the movie vs (thank Zod he found another forum) and am instantly reminded why he was put there.

We'll see anyway. He legit thinks Sentry is an Omniversal power, btw.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by Galan007
He legit thinks Sentry is an Omniversal power, btw. Not a fan of that.
I'll probably reply to the next post and give up though.

Though the jump from Exitar level to omniversal seems like a big one. The jump to Exitar level in the first place... hell even him matching all the heroes is a retarded feat and far and away his best strength feat, let's make it worse naturally.

Sometimes these posts leave you confused. How do you acknowledge it and provide a counter? Perplexing

RealityWarper
The problem with your claim is that it applies to a DEAD WEIGHT with TWO CHARACTERS TRYING TO LIFT IT.


The case here is about TWO CHARACTERS PUSHING UP AGAINST A COSMIC FORCE PUSHING DOWN so they have both the HEIGHT AND THE FORCE EXERTED BY EXITAR TO COUNTER.

In short your example is flawed from the start while my analogy with an hydrolic press applies.



Because he is flying, he isn't exerting a force that requires a leverage.





Which implies that he is hitting the Earth, not simply landing on it, which isn't relevant to the question, which would be obvious to you if had read the arc completely instead of cherry picking and adding context.

There is no correlation between both.




Again, you are adding a context that's not even here in the first place.

When has Tony beat Sentry in a context of strength again ?

Never, they never exerted a force in an opposite direction against each other.

You are trying to move the goalposts.

I've already shown that Rogue was using all the power she had at her disposal and that was completely useless because Exitar's physical power is way beyond her league.




He didn't land because Sentry stopped it. Plain and simple.

Rogue was completely unnoticeable.

Exitar is said to be more powerful than the 4th host and a single Celestial of the 4th host like Arishem is powerful enough to ridicule the 3 most powerful sky fathers, all at once.

I see that you don't get the gap that exist between Exitar and those heroes...

The moment of Exitar's death is completely irrelevant, it took him a long moment to die either ways and we saw Sentry pushing is dead weight out of space at MFTL speed EFFORTLESSLY when Exitar was finally deceased which means that your theory of the dead weight collapse.





A plan is a "set of decisions about how to do something in the future" so Sentry is basically "half of a set of decisions about to do something in the future".


Nuff' said.

Sentry did match Exitar in pure strength.

Sentry's power is said to be limitless and directly confirmed by Tony Stark and by the author in an interview too.

That means that, at this point, the author doesn't need anything but Sentry himself to accomplish whatever prowess he wants.

That's why Sentry is at the core, a solo hero, and Superman-like characters weaklings whom needs a team. \o/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/plan

A2 a set of decisions about how to do something in the future:
a company's business plan
a negotiated peace plan
a five-year plan
holiday plans
What are your plans for this weekend?
My plan is to sell the house and buy an apartment.
​

a type of arrangement for financial investment:
a pension/savings plan
go according to plan
​

to happen in the way you intend:
Events of this type rarely go according to plan.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





There is too much loaded question that are irrelevant to the topic.

I will simply say this:

1) Sentry is confirmed to be the "Most powerful man in existence" which was the title previously owned by Molecule Man.

2) When Sentry grabbed Thor in the same arc, Wolverine said that Sentry is the most powerful being he ever faced...

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Not a fan of that.
I'll probably reply to the next post and give up though.

Though the jump from Exitar level to omniversal seems like a big one. The jump to Exitar level in the first place... hell even him matching all the heroes is a retarded feat and far and away his best strength feat, let's make it worse naturally.

Sometimes these posts leave you confused. How do you acknowledge it and provide a counter? Perplexing

About this, whatever term people are trying to use is irrelevant.

Sentry's power is LIMITLESS.

I'm going with what the CHARACTERS and the AUTHORS are saying about Sentry, which is legitimate, that makes me far away from being a fanboy.

Period.

cdtm
Originally posted by Dareangel
how do you know which % was needed from each of them to stop the galaxy? maybe titano was doing 99% of the job? do you know the strength meassurements between those 2?

You're being facetious.

No mention was made either way, as it most certainly would have been. And no proof of shared feats is ever asked for, even when the characters are Wonder Woman or Hal Jordan..

The assumption is a shared burden, unless proven otherwise.

Zack M
I don't see how Sentry wins one fight.

Galan007
Originally posted by Zack M
I don't see how Sentry wins one fight. https://i.imgur.com/7rZFBJS.gif

xJLxKing
Lol the perfect gif

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The problem with your claim is that it applies to a DEAD WEIGHT with TWO CHARACTERS TRYING TO LIFT IT.


The case here is about TWO CHARACTERS PUSHING UP AGAINST A COSMIC FORCE PUSHING DOWN so they have both the HEIGHT AND THE FORCE EXERTED BY EXITAR TO COUNTER.

In short your example is flawed from the start while my analogy with an hydrolic press applies.

...

What

I am not joking here in the slightest, but I almost didn't read your post because you lead with this. Unfortunately I did. Come on man. Seriously, come on.
I'll get to my counter in a minute here, but seriously, you can't have thought this was an actual point that would suddenly throw a wrench into the mix. You basically just said it weighed more and that's why real world examples are irrelevant.

I used "dead weight" and literally the second example I could think of off the top of my head (first was a squat for whatever reason) to show how more people can make something previously unmovable easily move. It's a simple concept, but it applies to how something couldn't move something on its own but now it can... because someone else is helping in a disadvantageous position or not.

Not only that but you realize you know... gravity still applies. A weight doesn't weigh nothing just because it stopped at your chest while it still wants to go down.


But to directly answer it like I alluded to before, all that means is the weight was heavier than dead weight. The pressure exerted was more than what the weight of Exitar was. That doesn't magically change the entire dynamic of the feat, it means that we cannot actually put a number to the feat because it's impossible to measure. That however, doesn't mean the same concept of a helper doesn't stand true.

If you want to play the momentum angle erasing what I say, we'll simply change it a more relevant example.

Of course I will. Imagine if you will two guys lock up. One guy is pushing the other back, But another guy comes to his aid to help push the other guy over. The two people who pushed him over might not have succeeded on their own, but they did with help.
If 10 Carvers sumo wrestled Bob Sapp, they would likely overpower and push him back. 2 Carvers would be pushed out of the ring, but once they started upping the numbers, they would start overpowering him. It's the same concept as the dead weight, except now we don't have a number to attach to it.

Why the bench pressing is important, because it shows us a weight that they could move on their own, and how much help you know helps. The guy even with 3 other people helping was pushing up the majority of the weight. Yet he was completely useless on his own. Yet with help he can move it.

Which is relevant because Rogue was exactly 50 percent of the power required to stop Exitar. On her own she was useless. With someone just as strong as her she can stop it. Just like a real life example with numbers attached, crazy huh?

I ran out of patience to try and explain this more. I can't fathom how you can misconstrue this further.




Originally posted by RealityWarper
Because he is flying, he isn't exerting a force that requires a leverage.
He is descending. You don't see Superman pushing around planets by flying backwards at them. Not to say it doesn't exert force, but it has literally never in all of fiction to my knowledge said to be equal with forward flight strength.

Holy **** I just got an image of Superman standing on the planet in his iconic pose pushing the planet into the sun and started laughing. Definitely including that at the end.




Originally posted by RealityWarper
Which implies that he is hitting the Earth, not simply landing on it, which isn't relevant to the question, which would be obvious to you if had read the arc completely instead of cherry picking and adding context.

There is no correlation between both. Cherry picking and adding context? You use a statement by Wolverine to try and say Sentry is more powerful than him. You tried to say Sentry is limitless and that's why the feat is alright? You use no statements at all to say Sentry stopped Exitar on his own. You ignore actual statements, and everything else to try and say Sentry stopped him on his own when nothing in the comic backs this up.
Among other things. Don't try and turn your reflection into mine.

And you're the one who brought up him using his hands to destroy the planet in the first place. laughing out loud

Which again, means that Exitar descending downwards is not enough to destroy the planet. Because he has to use additional strength to flex the planet to death. If his descent isn't the ultimate attack, then how can we assume it's him using all his power?




Originally posted by RealityWarper
Again, you are adding a context that's not even here in the first place.

When has Tony beat Sentry in a context of strength again ?

Never, they never exerted a force in an opposite direction against each other.

You are trying to move the goalposts.

I've already shown that Rogue was using all the power she had at her disposal and that was completely useless because Exitar's physical power is way beyond her league. Tony didn't beat Sentry in a test of strength, which is the point. However, Tony did halt his forward moment with his own forward momentum. Using your logic, this means Tony's rockets are just as strong. See?
https://imgur.com/a/GiM4M

Exitar didn't have time to use another tactic like Sentry did there because Thor killed him. Among other times people caught Sentry's forward momentum fists, or snatched him out of midair. Shit happens. And those examples are a lot more relevant to strength than catching some feet.
Exitar was not overpowered. Exitar's descent however was matched by Sentry and Rogue. Exitar's descent is not his full power.

Moving the goalposts? You're not even in the same stadium fella.


And even your new "things have to be moving to be applicable" backs up the fact that Rogue did something. Because people helping you can help you push something you alone could not. Unless you just don't believe any amount of people could halt the momentum of someone like The Mountain. Because if one person can't do it, no amount of people can according to you. This is your logic believe it or not. If you disagree with me repeating your logic back at you, you completely forfeit the right to pretend Rogue could add in any way possible.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
He didn't land because Sentry stopped it. Plain and simple.

Rogue was completely unnoticeable.

Exitar is said to be more powerful than the 4th host and a single Celestial of the 4th host like Arishem is powerful enough to ridicule the 3 most powerful sky fathers, all at once.

I see that you don't get the gap that exist between Exitar and those heroes...

The moment of Exitar's death is completely irrelevant, it took him a long moment to die either ways and we saw Sentry pushing is dead weight out of space at MFTL speed EFFORTLESSLY when Exitar was finally deceased which means that your theory of the dead weight collapse. I'm saying him not landing was the extent of his descent ability and him getting slayed right away stopped him from trying a more powerful method. it's not complicated.

I have no idea what you're trying to say with the Celestial part. He has above 4th Host descent ability I guess? That still doesn't make it his max power.


Because even if it took him a long time to die, he'd be more concerned with his neck being gouged open and dying than continuing to go downwards or to start stomping, or to just punch the planet.

And Sentry flying Exitar away is a great feat. But it's completely irrelevant as I never said he was't exerting some pressure, he just wasn't putting all his strength into it, as it wasn't a test of strength, and if it was we would have seen him in a little more advantageous position.

If you think I was making some sort of dead weight argument, you completely misread everything, and you must assume me completely retarded like I wouldn't be aware of Sentry flying him away, and like I would assume dead weight would continue pushing against the previous shield they used in the alt timeline.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
A plan is a "set of decisions about how to do something in the future" so Sentry is basically "half of a set of decisions about to do something in the future".


Nuff' said.

Sentry did match Exitar in pure strength.

Sentry's power is said to be limitless and directly confirmed by Tony Stark and by the author in an interview too.

That means that, at this point, the author doesn't need anything but Sentry himself to accomplish whatever prowess he wants.

That's why Sentry is at the core, a solo hero, and Superman-like characters weaklings whom needs a team. \o/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/plan

A2 a set of decisions about how to do something in the future:
a company's business plan
a negotiated peace plan
a five-year plan
holiday plans
What are your plans for this weekend?
My plan is to sell the house and buy an apartment.
​

a type of arrangement for financial investment:
a pension/savings plan
go according to plan
​

to happen in the way you intend:
Events of this type rarely go according to plan.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What

And the definition of a plan doesn't override what the plan entailed, nor the context of one. If both halves of the plan are two people grabbing feet and exerting their max pressure against it, that probably puts them on equal footing.

The plan revolved entirely around physical strength. Rogue was half the plan. Sentry was the other. We have a summary saying it was a joint effort. IE, at the absolutely ****ing least, Sentry didn't do all the work. I'll go over at the end an example that happened earlier in Sentry's history that I completely glossed over until now for whatever reason.



You say Sentry is limitless and can accomplish any task, so that makes it ok, but you're completely glossing over the fact that Exitar was seen as omnipotent in that story, and the most powerful being in the universe. How can you sit there and spin that tripe at me and expect me to swallow it? The complete lack of Sentry is the most powerful thing in this story kind of speaks volumes too.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-90tNpdyOj5Y/Vm54iHf-7LI/AAAAAAAACZQ/1GIX-c5lDUM/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg

This is after Sentry was supposedly more powerful than Exitar too. I am really confused as to why Exitar would get better statements than Sentry after Sentry just proved he was above Exitar? Weird.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
There is too much loaded question that are irrelevant to the topic.

I will simply say this:

1) Sentry is confirmed to be the "Most powerful man in existence" which was the title previously owned by Molecule Man.

2) When Sentry grabbed Thor in the same arc, Wolverine said that Sentry is the most powerful being he ever faced... The loaded questions are very pertinent questions though. The fact that you can't answer them without backing yourself into a corner speaks volumes.

How is it irrelevant to the topic when it's literally in the same book? With context from the book? In a book where Exitar was the most powerful energy source in existence? Not off panel most powerful man in existence mind you passing the torch... Exitar's power was stated multiple times to be omnipotent, Exitar was the most powerful being in the book. If Sentry came anywhere near Exitar in that book, you'd think the great cosmic fighter that is Wolverine would have mentioned it. Nobody did.

And Molecule Man is the same in any universe. It's a shame an arc was made where BILLIONS were killed by Black Swans. It's a shame each Molecule Man was Child Beyonder level at best.
Backpacking off of Molecule Man on his best day isn't the best. Hell, even Doom beat the piss out of him right after Secret Wars 2. But I digress, after the Molecule Man feat he got a powerup and was portrayed as less powerful than Exitar. Conflicting.
Also most powerful man in existence is a little different than most powerful being in existence. Not only that, but how can you spit that at me when Exitar was little called the most powerful energy source in existence a couple pages after Sentry/Rogue stopped him? Seriously.

I forgot the page where Wolverine faced off against Exitar and said Sentry was directly more powerful. And if you're going to use a statement like that, you'd think an entire page jerking off Exitar calling him omnipotent and the most powerful energy source in existence would speak a little ****ing louder than Wolverine saying of all the people he fought, Sentry was that guy.

One Big Mob
Now, here's two things I want to separate to sum up this argument.

First is, this happened exactly before with the helicarrrier. Sentry exerted a lot of force on his own in a failing effort and Ms Marvel and Wonder Man come in and stop it instantly the second they help. Obviously Ms Marvel/Wonder Man are more powerful than Sentry by a large degree and Sentry did NOTHING. And Ms Marvel/Wonder Man were the base of Rogue in that arc too. Then she absorbed hundreds of heroes.
Well, this is weird isn't it?

http://i.imgur.com/42Sm4NR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nEDjU3W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RkWEwMn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tB4UYDW.jpg

THE SAME EXACT THING

Because that is how things work in real life and comics. A little extra help can suddenly and ultimately stop something you yourself could not accomplish much against.

Plus Rogue was said to be half, and Sentry the other half. The summary said it was a joint effort. That means in most people's minds it was 50/50. Great feat tbh. Amazing feat. Not what you're saying the feat is however.



---------------------------------------------------



The second thing I want to say is...

http://i63.tinypic.com/2a7bvrc.jpg




And that's it. I will not be reading your response to avoid replying to it. Everything is too circular, and I do not want to see more random shit added in like the top part of your post.

xJLxKing
OBM, I applaud your effort

One Big Mob
Originally posted by xJLxKing
OBM, I applaud your effort Failing effort. He either gets it or he continues on with the same line of thinking.
If that happens I accomplished nothing at all, though that picture is some of my finest work not to toot my own horn.

I'm glad that image was put in my mind.

JBL
Lol at the attempts to lowball Sentrys feat. Reminds me of the time superman and green lantern moved the earth and superman fans said superman did all the work. Sentry stopped that celestial. Live with it.

Zack M
Originally posted by Galan007
https://i.imgur.com/7rZFBJS.gif


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

abhilegend
How can we live with it when it never happened?

One Big Mob
Originally posted by JBL
Lol at the attempts to lowball Sentrys feat. Reminds me of the time superman and green lantern moved the earth and superman fans said superman did all the work. Sentry stopped that celestial. Live with it. Well I'm convinced. I'm not too full of myself to admit when I'm wrong.

Abhi shut up, Jbl just irrefutably showed how it happened. Lol at you doubting his proof.

abhilegend
laughing out loud

RealityWarper
Originally posted by JBL
Lol at the attempts to lowball Sentrys feat. Reminds me of the time superman and green lantern moved the earth and superman fans said superman did all the work. Sentry stopped that celestial. Live with it.

Exactly. thumb up

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Failing effort. He either gets it or he continues on with the same line of thinking.
If that happens I accomplished nothing at all, though that picture is some of my finest work not to toot my own horn.

I'm glad that image was put in my mind.

There is some points to address in your posts. Inaccuracies and others. I will take care of those points.

One Big Mob
That's cool. It's your right to do so. I don't agree with your position at all and think it's based on nothing, but I respect your ability to try. I'd respect you more if you stopped thinking that way, but it is what is.

Which leads us into... don't act like JBL said some sort of point. The guy is worthless. He's this boards Brashar Teg. He's only here to chime in with some provocateur sentence or two and then just peck at you while he's backed into a corner until someone comes to back his point up for him. He won't suck your cock, but he won't hit it either. He's a penis pecker. All he can do is peck at your penis in hopes you go away or someone comes to get you away from him.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
That's cool. It's your right to do so. I don't agree with your position at all and think it's based on nothing, but I respect your ability to try. I'd respect you more if you stopped thinking that way, but it is what is.

I think that we are in a position to agree to disagree.

I will probably repeat the same argument that I already posted in that thread about the weight stuff and the forces so I will avoid that.

However, I want to point out that you quoted the Helicarrier feat which doesn't have the same context at all, considering that Sentry had to help him land carefully to avoid killing the people on board, which isn't the case with Exitar.



Hey I still appreciate JBL. ^^

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I think that we are in a position to agree to disagree.

I will probably repeat the same argument that I already posted in that thread about the weight stuff and the forces so I will avoid that.

However, I want to point out that you quoted the Helicarrier feat which doesn't have the same context at all, considering that Sentry had to help him land carefully to avoid killing the people on board, which isn't the case with Exitar.



Hey I still appreciate JBL. ^^ Even taking the helicarrier into full context and writer interviews and anything else you could possibly add, it is still an example of in this case two weaker people stopping something effortlessly when one struggled. Hence, relevant.

JBL is a slimy little penis pecker. He only exists to provoke. People used to call Carver an ultimate cheerleader but at least he would always attempt to defend his position when called on it. All JBL does is move his nose at your cock at a higher speed than normal. Not woodpecker pace, but more like a pigeon who got into some rice.

riv6672
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Failing effort. He either gets it or he continues on with the same line of thinking.
No one really changes their minds in these threads.
As the starter i just hope to glean some useful info along the way.

And, nice pic. stick out tongue

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Even taking the helicarrier into full context and writer interviews and anything else you could possibly add, it is still an example of in this case two weaker people stopping something effortlessly when one struggled. Hence, relevant.

The amount of power produced by a falling Hellicarier is significantly unnoticeable compared to a Celestial using his power to push down to Earth.

Come on...

cdtm
Superman 1m wins almost as easily as normal Superman beats Son Goku.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by riv6672
No one really changes their minds in these threads.
As the starter i just hope to glean some useful info along the way.

And, nice pic. stick out tongue Once you get invested in a multiple page argument it's hard to suddenly make one post change the mind of the other. You either sow the seeds early and hope to further and further back things up more, or you just keep on the same level the whole way through and nothing gets solved.
The only people you see suddenly change their mind is Carver, and that's just to feign defeat so he can reshoot the same argument down the line.
I try to always find something new with each post along with reiteration of the point to try and break through. It does not work. Maybe others attempt the same to me and find the same type of fault in me. I doubt anyone comes in thinking they're wrong, but the worst you can hope for is the other to come away thinking slightly different. Had I more drive I would continue this debate. Would I get further in changing the mind? Maybe, maybe not.

But I 100 percent know that the only way I won't respond is if I don't read it. I can easily type things, and feel I can find faults. From there it's easy to shit out a response. If I read it, I am already thinking up a response. So, I try to make every post count because I know I'll grow tired eventually of the debate and make sure my argument can stand on its own merits that way. Nobody reads my shit though so it's basically me leaving it so the only other person reading crafts their perfect response and counter to my arguments. And thus I fail.

Or some shit. I will probably attempt this argument down the line when I cross paths with it again. I strongly feel I am completely correct. But then again, so does RW. Meh.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The amount of power produced by a falling Hellicarier is significantly unnoticeable compared to a Celestial using his power to push down to Earth.

Come on... Irrelevant. A hydraulic press produces infinitely less power too.

I'm not saying it's on the same level. I'm saying it is literally the exact same shit on a different scale. For us to assume Sentry stopped the Celestial on his own, would be us assuming Sentry did nothing against the helicarrier.

I'm not knocking Sentry's strength because of it. I'm saying literally the exact same shit happened to the exact same character in reverse at some point in his career. Which is hilariously ironic.

Which I hope you take into consideration.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Irrelevant. A hydraulic press produces infinitely less power too.

An hydraulic press produce an amount of power than any human being can match. So does Exitar.

That's the difference between a dead weight, even the size of a planet, and a massive power behind it.



The difference is that he was pushing Exitar with all his might.

The Helicarrier feat required finesse over raw power.

That's why the context of both differs and they cannot be correlated.



That's a different context. So that's a different feat.



I do.

I don't get how you can bypass the fact that in one feat, he is trying to land something with the minimum amount of force to land it without causing damages and killing everyone on board.

In the other feat, Sentry is putting a maximum of force and no finesse at all as his goal is to push Exitar back on his tracks.

That's clearly two completely different context, moreover the Helicarrier is falling and only his weight is producing a force while Exitar is using his own omnipotent energies to sustain his physical power, which is the same thing that Sentry does.

JBL
Originally posted by RealityWarper
An hydraulic press produce an amount of power than any human being can match. So does Exitar.

That's the difference between a dead weight, even the size of a planet, and a massive power behind it.



The difference is that he was pushing Exitar with all his might.

The Helicarrier feat required finesse over raw power.

That's why the context of both differs and they cannot be correlated.



That's a different context. So that's a different feat.



I do.

I don't get how you can bypass the fact that in one feat, he is trying to land something with the minimum amount of force to land it without causing damages and killing everyone on board.

In the other feat, Sentry is putting a maximum of force and no finesse at all as his goal is to push Exitar back on his tracks.

That's clearly two completely different context, moreover the Helicarrier is falling and only his weight is producing a force while Exitar is using his own omnipotent energies to sustain his physical power, which is the same thing that Sentry does. You are trying to explain something to someone with the mentally of a special education 3 year old. Stop wasting your time.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by JBL
You are trying to explain something to someone with the mentally of a special education 3 year old. Stop wasting your time.

Check your PM please. stick out tongue

Hey I appreciate Branlor Swift even if we disagree.

One Big Mob

riv6672
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Once you get invested in a multiple page argument it's hard to suddenly make one post change the mind of the other. You either sow the seeds early and hope to further and further back things up more, or you just keep on the same level the whole way through and nothing gets solved.
The only people you see suddenly change their mind is Carver, and that's just to feign defeat so he can reshoot the same argument down the line.
I try to always find something new with each post along with reiteration of the point to try and break through. It does not work. Maybe others attempt the same to me and find the same type of fault in me. I doubt anyone comes in thinking they're wrong, but the worst you can hope for is the other to come away thinking slightly different. Had I more drive I would continue this debate. Would I get further in changing the mind? Maybe, maybe not.

But I 100 percent know that the only way I won't respond is if I don't read it. I can easily type things, and feel I can find faults. From there it's easy to shit out a response. If I read it, I am already thinking up a response. So, I try to make every post count because I know I'll grow tired eventually of the debate and make sure my argument can stand on its own merits that way. Nobody reads my shit though so it's basically me leaving it so the only other person reading crafts their perfect response and counter to my arguments. And thus I fail.

Or some shit. I will probably attempt this argument down the line when I cross paths with it again. I strongly feel I am completely correct. But then again, so does RW. Meh.
Meh indeed.
Thank you for your input, though. I for one enjoyed it.

Dareangel
Originally posted by cdtm
You're being facetious.

No mention was made either way, as it most certainly would have been. And no proof of shared feats is ever asked for, even when the characters are Wonder Woman or Hal Jordan..

The assumption is a shared burden, unless proven otherwise.

sorry it doesnt work that way. superman 1 million was trying to hold the galaxy but he failed and admitted in his own words that even he cant hold back the weight of an entire galaxy. then titano arrives and they manage to do so. therefor, if you want to contribute anything here to superman 1 million, the burden of proof is on you to contradict the initial evidence of him failing and not being able to do so. you will have to provide how titano and 1 million stack up against each other to understand the portion each contributed. you cant use this feat for 1 million and just say lets give him 50% without any evidence to it. for all that we know, titano could have done 99% of the work. specially after we saw kal kent simply couldnt do anything. its not like he was holding the galaxy back for a while but eventually failing. he straight up couldnt and admited he just cant do it

DarkSaint85
Wait aren't cdtm/Dareangel and RW/Branlor having the same argument, just from diff sides? Lol.

Dareangel
Lol no

DarkSaint85
Kinda related, at least.

Cdtm: he pushed the Galaxy!
Dareangel: he had help!
Bran: He had help!
RW: He pushed the Exitar!

riv6672
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait aren't cdtm/Dareangel and RW/Branlor having the same argument, just from diff sides? Lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Kinda related, at least.

Cdtm: he pushed the Galaxy!
Dareangel: he had help!
Bran: He had help!
RW: He pushed the Exitar!

laughing

Dareangel
well i dont remember the exact feat of sentry, but based on what i am reading, sentry actually did it before he got help. so basically he could also do it by himself only with more effort. however, superman 1 million couldnt stop or hold the galaxy and admited its something beyond his powers. suddenly someone arrive and the action is acomplished. therefor, there is a base to contribute sentry his feat, but no real base for 1 million

krisblaze
Haha what?

Rogue was trying to stop Exitar's descent and then Sentry showed up to help her.

We don't know if he contributed 5% or 95%.

Dareangel
alright i need to see the feat first before i can talk about it. is it posted somewhere?

Dareangel
also, i would like to address this point of people saying yeah 1 million couldnt stop the galaxy but just because its a galaxy its automatically a galactical level feat for him. i dont understand this logic. 1 million clearly not only failed to stop the galaxy, but he wasnt even able to slow it down. not even a little bit. he simply couldnt do anything. how is it different from regular superman trying to stop the galaxy and failing? how is it different from a meta leveler that would try to do anything in his powers to prevent the outcome but failing? i just cant understand since when failing to do something in such fashion is actually a feat. and if an argument will be made that the fact he was trying to match a galaxy with his powers shows us he knows its within the range of his powers, i will have to disagree. if the galaxies collided, the outcome would be a catastrophy. therefor as a hero, he simply threw out everything he had to try and prevent it. even regular sups would try to do the same. doesnt mean he is on that level. usually we see a character being able to stop or lift something but for a brief period of time while strugling and shaking. in this case, he didnt effect the galaxy. that shows he is by no means on that level or close.

RealityWarper

RealityWarper
And Exitar is powerful enough not only to dwarf the Fourth Celestial Host but the ONE Watcher and thousands of Watchers...

His tremendous power is far beyond anything the combined power of all heroes of Earth combined...

Sentry, on the other hand, is said to have Virtually unlimited psionic power... That's the same description than the Pre-retcon Beyonder and the Living Tribunal. Literally.


Exitar isn't in the same league than Rogue to make her attempt more than an insignificant, desperate attempt at stopping him.

https://i.imgur.com/e579Qkj.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/tvQ47tk.jpg

RealityWarper
Here is the vast number of Watchers in the scene.

A single Watcher or Celestial is so powerful that they completely dwarf Sky Fathers like Odin or Zeus.

https://i.imgur.com/6oou6gD.jpg

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
And Exitar pushing down to Earth actually produce infinitely more power than the comibned power of all heroes on Earth can produce.

Please, remember again that Rogue completely failed to do anything to him.

She wasn't even capable to slow his descent a bit. She did nothing, nada, zero, zilch.

Sentry was capable to carry Exitar's dead body, which is planet-sized, into space at MFTL speed, without effort at all.

If one of both did a relevant action against Exitar, that's Sentry.


About the Hellicarrier, it's like comparing Oranges and Apples.

You should see that if Sentry brutally stopped it, or gave him some acceleration, the crew inside it would suffer the consequences and be rag-dolled thus they will die.

That's not the first time that Sentry do that because Marvel actually care more about the rules of physics and the consequences of the actions of his heroes than DC.

You are comparing two cases not remotely comparable. They are completely different.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111134695/4199548-screenshot+2014-11-04+at+10.00.55+am.png If you're going to cover your ears and repeat yourself, you should probably have actual proof that you can regress to that state. It's funny how you can find a random scan under a different writer where Sentry couldn't even pick up a ship to try and prove your case but you use absolutely nothing from the actual series to show half of what you're saying.
In the post below this you're randomly showing a completely different Exitar feat to try and piggyback off of, when Exitar was out and out said to be more powerful than everything else. Why is the omnipotent Exitar below Sentry in your opinion? Because Sentry was said to have unlimited power... why did Sentry stop Exitar? Because Rogue didn't stop him on her own. Why did Exitar use his full power? Because he was trying to land. Where is the proof of any of these statements? Uh...
But you can get a completely unrelated feat to apply it while pretending a feat that mirrors it exactly doesn't apply. When you befuddle everything but can instantly come up with proof you think applicable to the helicarrier, you might want to rethink your stance. Where is your proof? Where is your statements? Where is your logic?


The crew was already rag dolled when they were shown smashing into everything. And it WAS suddenly stopped. And Sentry was shown to be struggling. But all that is irrelevant. It's like you don't understand the purpose of scales.
"It wasn't the weight of the world so it doesn't count."
Why though? Do you not understand small test scales? Do you not understand all these examples even you yourself have used? You can't even pretend to think anything over with any sort of critical thinking.
So far it seems like the only reason you think a bench press doesn't apply (besides this dead weight thing) but a hydraulic press does is because humans can lift the weight in a bench press. Which means you still can't fathom that Sentry did not push all of Exitar by himself and the only example you can come up with is literally Sentry pushing Exitar.
"Why didn't Rogue help?"
"Because humans can't push a hydraulic press."

What complete and utterly self serving logic. So circular. You didn't even pretend to explain it in a way that makes it applicable either because you simply do not have any proof besides Exitar stopping when Sentry arrived. Which I have used quite a few real world examples and even a comic example from Sentry with an explanation behind it.

Plus, if you stop a hydraulic press full out, you will likely break it. Guess the hydraulic press is about as relevant as the helicarrier example right?

As for your proof. That panel basically says that ships can't be lifted because they'll snowglobe the people inside. You're using this in retaliation to a ship nosediving at high speeds that showed the passengers smashing into things. And the ship suddenly got stopped too. Or at least the speed slowed quick enough that in the real world it would have killed quite a few people. Also Sentry/Ms Marvel/Wonder Man dropped the ****ing thing on the street that showed a visible effect and smashed up the concrete. How caring they were of the lightbulb people inside.
That in your eyes completely overrides the helicarrier example, yet the helicarrier mirroring the Exitar feat is nothing alike. What.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if Sentry used all his power or none of his power. It doesn't matter if he was scared to break a lightbulb. All that matters is that him pushing it did not stop it, yet Ms Man did. Using your logic, Ms Man did all the work and they even pushed it perfectly as to not kill everyone inside. Way more effective.
They weren't using much power, ok. They were being super careful, ok. They were trying to slow it down, not stop it (even though Sentry is screaming), ok. How does any of this change the fact that Ms Marvel and Wonder Man stopped it instantly? You're trying to add made up context to a feat that changes absolutely nothing of the actual point.
The ship was only shown to have changed momentum once Ms Man came onto the scene. Answer this, and explain in a way that would convince yourself why it doesn't mirror the Exitar example.

Also Marvel doesn't use real world logic better than DC. Neither of them do. You would be incredibly hard pressed to find an example of that outside the Gladiator/Thor fight, and even then I'd wager each one could match the other in that aspect.
Not only that but Bendis uses zero real world logic.


But you danced around the question there.

Did Ms Marvel and Wonder Man do 100 percent of the work in stopping the Helicarrier?

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
And Exitar is powerful enough not only to dwarf the Fourth Celestial Host but the ONE Watcher and thousands of Watchers...

His tremendous power is far beyond anything the combined power of all heroes of Earth combined...

Sentry, on the other hand, is said to have Virtually unlimited psionic power... That's the same description than the Pre-retcon Beyonder and the Living Tribunal. Literally.


Exitar isn't in the same league than Rogue to make her attempt more than an insignificant, desperate attempt at stopping him.



What does this have to do with anything I said at all? And why didn't Exitar just use his ultimate attack of desending into The One?

Also Rogue had Hulk's power. Everyone knows Hulk is the strongest one there is. Infinite, limitless power, etc. But Exitar was said to be omnipotent and the most powerful energy source in existence. That is why no one else was as powerful as him in that comic. Simply trying to piggyback off him doesn't work

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
If you're going to cover your ears and repeat yourself, you should probably have actual proof that you can regress to that state.

Is that a self-projection commonly known in psychoanalysis ?

It looks like that way. thumb up



That's pretty much what your scan about the Helicarrier is, not to mention the massive difference in context and in scale too.

Try again. thumb up



The point was to show how powerful Exitar is, which is relevant to the question of how the feat happened.

Your Helicarrier, on the other hand, can be completely disregarded.



I have never said that Sentry is above Exitar or the opposite.

That's a STRAWMAN my good Sir.

Try again. thumb up



FACT



AGAIN. FACT.



Exitar don't stop when he is feeling a resistance.

Assuming that he is doing his best to land on Earth is logical, except if you are a fanboy trying to lowball the feat, of course.




Like the Helicarrier ?

Exactly.



Your should try to apply your own advices to yourself.



Yes, that's ****ing irrelevant.



The irony is rich.

You are comparing an Helicarrier to a planet-sized abstract with infinite power pushing down to Earth...

I don't even know why I keep replying to this nonsense, the boredom I guess.

Hilarious. laughing




You should pick your examples better, instead of trying to evaluate my character.

I can guarantee you that could help you form a coherent argument in this debate.

"Small test scales" implies that the same quantity of effort is proportionally reduced so the test simulate the conditions of the effort on a bigger scale.

Please feel free to prove that trying to LAND an helicarrier without killing everyone on board is the same thing that PUSHING UP against a PLANET-SIZED ABSTRACT WITH INFINITE POWER. laughing





You are over-simplificating what I am saying to the point you are making another strawman.

The point, when comparing to an hydraulic press, is to show that action of a sidekick trying to help, whenever he doesn't posses enough strength to make a difference, is completely irrelevant.

Which is the case here, Rogue, with the power of all heroes on Earth, is still an irrelevant insect to Exitar's might.



And none of your examples are still relevant to the case.

They simply don't fit. At all.



If you try to push against an hydraulic press coming down you will be squished like a bug, which was the fate that was waiting for Rogue because he didn't notice her at all and was still pushing down to Earth without being slowed down.




It is not mirroring the feat with Exitar and there is nothing in that paragraph that is worth responding to neither.



Irrelevant.




That's just your opinion here.



That's ****ing irrelevant.

The real question here is:


Has Kal Kent any ****ing feats of strength that place him at the same level as Sentry ? NO, HE DOESN'T.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
What does this have to do with anything I said at all?

It shows how powerful Exitar is.




Descending isn't an attack.

The point was that once Exitar landed on Earth, he crushed it with his bare hands thus if he didn't land he didn't crush it.

Plain and simple.

But I don't know why I'm bothering when you clearly didn't read the story and don't know the context of your claims.



Except that Hulk's power is limited by his rage and that he hasn't even been close to show the power to LIFT or PUSH a planet.





And Sentry put the shit out of the "most powerful man in existence" which is a clear indication that he can counter Exitar's might. thumb up

One Big Mob
Your entire post is not worth responding to. I used to accuse Abhi of handwaving away things all the time, but at least Abhi would have a basis with some proof to do so. Maybe an explanation as well. At least what Abhi said did start off with some discussion on said object before hand. Abhi would stimulate a debate either before or after I felt he started handwaving things.
You are not.

If you can actually explain why and where I should respond to your post, I will. But right now, simply saying "That's irrelevant" without even trying to explain why, and basically "no you are" again, without explaining why isn't worth a retort.

I am trying to explain my case, and I can explain why and how everything I say is important. You however, are not. Why are the things I say not worth taking into consideration? "Because it's not!" Oh, ok nevermind.

I could go up to h1 right now, and he would at least try to explain everything he says with made up math, and how powerful that is in relation. Why was Exitar using his entire power there? Because he wanted to land? So why is it not even worth taking into consideration that no one in comics ever has put their max power into a descent? That seems like a pretty pertinent question to me. Why was it never said that Sentry was as powerful as Exitar since he solely stopped him on his own? Why is the only actual explanation on the feat saying that it was a joint effort?

What are you actually presenting my way to try and convince me of the feat? Rogue didn't stop him on his own? Well, here's some real world examples and a comic one. Doesn't count. So what did you actually present to me to prove the argument? Sentry has unlimited power, and Exitar stopped? I can and have addressed that, with the very things you just handwaved away and then repeated yourself to serve your own logic.

So ignoring who is correct, if you looked at this argument without a dog in this race, who is actually providing something to back up their argument? What have you presented, what have you refuted? Explain that, and I will delve into what you feel is important.

I want you to read and think about what I'm saying. Simply trying to mirror my arguments or wave it away don't speak that way. Refusing to post proof doesn't speak that way. Refusing to answer a question multiple times doesn't speak that way.
Debating isn't about closing your ears and putting your thumb up your bum. Debating is about actually refuting things, thinking about it, and maybe raising your own case. When I say something is irrelevant I will explain why. When you say something is irrelevant, you do not. Simply throwing around words without an explanation doesn't refute the point. I thought it was relevant, simply answering me with irrelevant doesn't cause me to self reflect on why it wasn't relevant.

I don't want the last word. I never have. What I want, is for you to know why what I think of what you said was wrong. That is why it's hard for me to read posts and not respond, because I still feel you are wrong, and here is why.
If you are simply going to respond to what I feel is important posts with absolutely zero explanation of why what I said is wrong, you are not actually looking to have a conversation. You are not looking to prove me wrong. What you are doing, is trying to shut me up with a snappy retort. You won because I didn't respond, congratulations. Now what did you actually prove to stop this multiple post debate? Think about that. I want you to blow me off the ****ing map with things that leave me dumbfounded. Unfortunately, that is more first post type of shit, since if you had that evidence, it would have happened.

Here is a recent example:
Elliminist made the ball detonation argument in the Hal Jordan vs Goku thread. And I will fully admit, it made me think. He was wrong in a lot of cases, but he presented something, and he presented it well. And I am still unsure of whether or not when a ball detonates, that it creates an additional damage source. Which is why I never refuted that if you go back and look (though I do feel that the ball initially contains all the damage it needs, but whether the explosion adds additional is untouched material).
Elliminist explained himself. He actually talked about the feat without "here's how it is". He actually tried to sway people's opinions. I think even Galan would admit he made him think. He might disagree with almost everything, but he made him think about it and hesitate.
And I don't think you tried to lead me to a different opinion. I don't think you tried to change my mind. I think you just tried to silence me and hope I'd fall for it. If you can debate everyone for multiple pages, you can apply the effort to try and prove your case. Not just shit out a reply for a replies sake.

The best debate I ever had was against Operator. That's not because it got way too long, it's because both of us were always trying to explain ourselves with a new angle or feats. I'd say something and he'd show why it's wrong, and then repeat. I still think I was right, and maybe if I did read his last response, it might have swayed me. But what happened is we weren't just shitting out responses to pad length. And I fully think you are capable of actually responding to things. Ironically it was about Molecule Man too, who you can only piggyback off of as opposed to raising your own claims.


Now, I don't expect you to respond to this because I know you lack the ability as of this moment. But I do want you to read this. I want you think about this and improve how you present things. Why are things the way they are? Why are you correct and I am wrong? If your answer is paraphrased as "Because you are." then you need to go quite a bit deeper.
Even Carver understands this fundamental concept. Carver will explain. Carver will refute. What Carver lacks however, is an ability to understand well, anything. I'm not trying to insult you either, I just want to avoid these wall debates in the future. I don't want to have to avoid you because of frustration. I want to seek out an actual discussion where I'm not bouncing a tennis ball off a wall. I'd rather walk away feeling dumb than walk away wanting to smash my face off a hammer.
Blow my shitty opinion away, don't just cover your ears and handwave it away.

And that's my rant. Handwave it away if you must. If your response is pretending you provided tons of proof, you would have posted it before hand.


Here are what I deem merits some response. And not "Heh, sounds like you. Gotcha homo!" responses. Though I don't really feel it merits some response, I just think it's the only things you said that you could respond to. Again, I am open to you explaining why every point you made should be responded to.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I have never said that Sentry is above Exitar or the opposite.

That's a STRAWMAN my good Sir.

Try again. thumb up
Then I am wrong.

Though continuing to repeat that Sentry is the most powerful man in existence doesn't help matters. And piggybacking off of Molecule Man to try and prove Sentry is the most powerful man in existence doesn't help. What is he?
However, Sentry is just as powerful as Exitar. Now what does that change in what I said?

Why is the omnipotent Exitar and most powerful energy source in existence only equal to Sentry in your opinion? Why would they say that about Exitar after Sentry stopped him?
Why why why?


You want to accuse everything you don't like as either strawmanning or irrelevant, then how about you stop using red herrings everytime you think you have a point?



Originally posted by RealityWarper
Exitar don't stop when he is feeling a resistance.

Assuming that he is doing his best to land on Earth is logical, except if you are a fanboy trying to lowball the feat, of course. How am I the fanboy here? Who am I a fanboy of, Exitar?

I'm a fanboy of what actually happened. I'm not adding in powers and piggybacking of of others to try and paint someone as the best thing since sliced bread. I want the feat to be seen as what the feat actually is. Which is already impressive. What I don't want is for people to ignore all logic and evidence to try and paint it as infinitely more impressive than it already is.

"Sentry just matched all the heroes on Earth."
"No wait, he actually matched Exitar and all the heroes pooled together are an insignificant feeb in comparison"
"He's the most powerful man in existence"

What is the relevance of Exitar's strength? If you can't actually explain why he did the feat, you can't try and paint Exitar as infinite. If you're going to ignore Exitar being omnipotent and the most powerful energy source in existence. If you're going to ignore him being half the plan and a summary saying it was a joint effort. If you're going to completely ignore the fact that no one has ever put all their strength into descending. Exitar's strength is largely irrelevant. We do not know what sort of power he was putting into his feat, nor do we know if he can put more into flying forward.

Yes I know he would be pushing. My entire point that has been ignored and handwaved away is that nobody ever has put all their power into descent. I've spammed it everywhere. You have never actually tackled it. The closest you've come is basically saying he was putting effort into it. Yes, of course he was. That however only syncs up with what I'm saying. I know he was pushing. What I don't believe is that all his ****ing power was directed into going downwards. I don't think he can.

Which is why in this instance, a normal person would actually provide proof that he was. That a statement would apply to Exitar that said they were matching his entire power. Any ****ing thing would exist somewhere for us to say this. It'd be the same shit if someone said Superman wrist curling a planet was his max power. No, it is not. It is not and never has been the most advantageous position. When something occurs out of the norm of how we view max power output, we do not assume it's everything they have with evidence. It's the reason why huge punches in comics aren't drawn as jabs.

Not only that, but the guy has to apply more or different power to destroy the planet. Are we to assume all of Exitar's power is used to land on the planet, and then he just uses a minuscule amount when he destroys the planet? That shit makes no sense. Especially when he's actually shown to be moving in a large force motion when he destroys the planet.

Could Sentry stop Exitar's punch just because he stopped his downwards movement? No? Then maybe you should reexamine the feat.





Originally posted by RealityWarper
Yes, that's ****ing irrelevant.
Did you just say the crew getting ragdolled and smashing into everything and the helicarrier being stopped suddenly is irrelevant? You realize that was in retort to you saying that is exactly what Sentry was trying to avoid, don't you?

This is what I was saying earlier. Why is it irrelevant? Because your headcanon exists that says he was trying to save everyone by not putting in max force? That still doesn't make it irrelevant. The crew smashed around hard. The portrayal is that Sentry was just trying to stop it.

Even if you can prove that Sentry was trying to save everyone by not pushing too hard (which I've asked for proof for), the overall example still stands as relevant and contradictory.

Now, maybe the explanation does exists. I'm not ruling it out. But when you keep saying the explanation like it's a fact, while I ask for proof, and then rule out what I said without providing proof but continuing to repeat yourself...
If you're lost, I asked for proof of what you said. Provide it. Don't sit on your ivory throne and pretend you're Mr Knowledge and everyone else is wrong.

It's not even important to the conversation, but I personally want you to prove Sentry was just trying not to cause massive deceleration (which happened when Ms Marvel stopped it anyway). It is an easy, simple thing to prove. So do it.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The irony is rich.

You are comparing an Helicarrier to a planet-sized abstract with infinite power pushing down to Earth...

I don't even know why I keep replying to this nonsense, the boredom I guess.

Hilarious. laughing
Do you still not understand what scale means? Do you not understand what examples are?
I've said multiple times it doesn't matter how much power Sentry put into it. I'm not trying to lowball him. I'm saying it's the exact same thing.

Obviously I'm not trying to compare the power of the two, that's retarded. Even mocking this when you compare it more to a hydraulic press should have overruled this. But you are not thinking logically about it.



Originally posted by RealityWarper
You should pick your examples better, instead of trying to evaluate my character.

I can guarantee you that could help you form a coherent argument in this debate.

"Small test scales" implies that the same quantity of effort is proportionally reduced so the test simulate the conditions of the effort on a bigger scale.

Please feel free to prove that trying to LAND an helicarrier without killing everyone on board is the same thing that PUSHING UP against a PLANET-SIZED ABSTRACT WITH INFINITE POWER. laughing Come on. You refuse to actually address half the things, and have an utter refusal to post proof or even explain your points. You have, and will never convince anyone with that attitude. And you know that, because you pm'ed me a debate you had with Sharivan where you were actually refuting points, and posting proof. You have not devolved I think, you are simply clinging to nothing right now in the hopes that I stop.
Don't lecture me when you know for a fact you are not doing all you can to convince me, or even yourself. You can't teach me anything from how you're debating right now, because I've debated against people doing this tactic, lots. It's the reason why H1 is on ignore. It's the reason why I've considered the same here. And it's the reason why Galan and Phildo told me to put you on ignore. Because you will fall victim to shitty debating practices the second you are backed into a corner and can't defend your point.


How did you explain a small scale test and then use a perfect example and try and toss it at me?

The quantity of effort is reduced? So that's like using a lot less power than moving a planet, no? It was proportionally reduced, Sentry could not land the helicarrier on his own, and was having almost no luck until Ms Marvel and Wonder Man came in. You literally just showed why it was the same thing.



They used a fraction of their power to stop a fraction of the weight, and needed help to stop it immediately. Simple, same thing even following your guidelines.


However, to explain it without your guidelines and getting hung up on your refusal to even think they could be similar.
A weight was falling down. A man tried to stop it. He could not stop it in time. 2 people came and stopped it instantly. Everyone contributed.



Now here's the problem. You can not think past the similarities or lack thereof in your case. Which is why I continue asking you about it. If Exitar never existed in canon.
Was everyone providing the power to stop the helicarrier, or did Ms Marvel/Wonder Man do all of the work? Sentry did nothing, and as soon as they put their hands on it, it stopped. It looks like they did all the work, does it not?

Can you answer this? I'm really confused about it. Can you pretend you are actually trying to prove your case. Can you not shut your ears and lalalala me? I feel this is important, what happened there?


Originally posted by RealityWarper
You are over-simplificating what I am saying to the point you are making another strawman.

The point, when comparing to an hydraulic press, is to show that action of a sidekick trying to help, whenever he doesn't posses enough strength to make a difference, is completely irrelevant.

Which is the case here, Rogue, with the power of all heroes on Earth, is still an irrelevant insect to Exitar's might. I am over simplifying it because that's exactly what you're saying.

I've already shown examples of people doing nothing on their own against a weight that can have some effort on. It visibly looks like they did nothing, but a smart man knows better.

You aren't even using logic here. You're assuming Rogue did absolutely zero percent of the work when that is simply how nothing works. Sentry has never fought Rogue with all the powers of the world. We do not know if he makes her look insignificant. We have nothing to show he is infinitely above her in strength, and this was far and away Sentry's best strength feat. You can't assume she did nothing at all, because you have no evidence. Evidence to the contrary actually.
Even if she did 5 percent of the work, she is still providing effort. She is still pushing.
The fact that we have them saying half, and it being a joint effort proves she was had something to do with him being stopped. It is completely irrefutable. You are using examples that follow nothing except your self serving logic.

The hydraulic press is only relevant because Sentry stopped Exitar. That is the bread and butter. But I've shown and used real world and a comic example to show this is not the case. Things can do nothing on their own on the surface, but in actuality will be providing a large percent. You have not even pretended this could exist, because the hydraulic press, and Sentry stopped Exitar. Do you see where the issue arises?



But really, this is completely overruled by the summary saying it was a joint effort. Which means she was helping. There is no getting around that. All of what I said is only to back that up. You have not proven anything, you are ignoring everything, and are accusing me of being a fanboy? Hilarious.





Originally posted by RealityWarper
And none of your examples are still relevant to the case.



If you try to push against an hydraulic press coming down you will be squished like a bug, which was the fate that was waiting for Rogue because he didn't notice her at all and was still pushing down to Earth without being slowed down.
And what if thousands of people are pushing against the hydraulic press? Is each one nothing pushing? This is the whole concept here. Additional force helps. That's what happens in real life, that's what happens in comics. That's what happened against Exitar.

It was a joint effort as they say.



Originally posted by RealityWarper
That's ****ing irrelevant.

The real question here is:


Has Kal Kent any ****ing feats of strength that place him at the same level as Sentry ? NO, HE DOESN'T.


Originally posted by One Big Mob
If you say "I can't see how that question is relevant", I'm done.

Come on man. I ****ing called it. How can you accuse me of not reading anything when you pull this shit?

The fact that you can't answer it speaks volumes.


Also, I don't even think I've brought up Superman's name in this thread, nor do I think he wins. Actually, I haven't even thought about it.
What I am doing however, is trying to actually put the feat in order. I'm trying to accurately explain the feat, not downplay it.
And matching every hero on Earth amped by Hulk amps isn't exactly a low feat either. How dare I imply that.

DarkSaint85
Lol.

One Big Mob
I hate that this merited me grabbing my computer, and I hate that the page is stretched to ****. This is so stupid and a huge waste of time. The only time I've ever been this confident is debating carver, but everytime it just drags me back.
And I think trying to talk sense was really dumb too. Nothing will change. I tried to prove Galan and Phildo wrong and they were right. They are always right.

**** you for laughing at this Darksaint. This is my life dawg

DarkSaint85
You know, it's rare that I actually have to put people on ignore. I haven't done it with Carver, h1, bluewaterrider.

Realitywarper though? Yes. He actually PMs debates he has with others on other sites....

IOW, his ego simply wants boosting. Prob links other people to how well he's 'owning' you. Used to do the Sharivan thing too....he seems the one guy who really got into his head.

RealityWarper
Oh God the effort.

Still 4 posts full of shit. BRAVO. laughing

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Oh God the effort.

Still 4 posts full of shit. BRAVO. laughing And that's about it for you. Gave you a chance. Read your sig for a reason.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You know, it's rare that I actually have to put people on ignore. I haven't done it with Carver, h1, bluewaterrider.

Realitywarper though? Yes. He actually PMs debates he has with others on other sites....

IOW, his ego simply wants boosting. Prob links other people to how well he's 'owning' you. Used to do the Sharivan thing too....he seems the one guy who really got into his head. I thought I could talk sense. Though I did think it weird how I was shown a debate against a poster I never heard of before but whatever. People do things.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Your entire post is not worth responding to.

You keep using this psychological projection...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection


Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually intolerant may constantly accuse other people of being intolerant. It incorporates blame shifting.

According to some research, the projection of one's unconscious qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection


"Ok. Sir." thumb up

You are trying to poorly divert the debate on my supposed qualities and default "according to you".

That's an usual tactic used by politician when they are caught using logical fallacies and trying to make them pass for actual arguments.

Try harder. I don't fall for it.



I've explained why it's irrelevant.

You are using examples whom doesn't correlate to the topic at hand, aka knowing how powerful Sentry is physically, because the whole Helicarrier instance require FINESS over RAW POWER.

I explained that multiple times already.



You are using pointless examples, unrelated to the Celestial example.

I've already explained why the example differs. MULTIPLE TIMES.




Why would we assume the opposite ? Do you have any proof that suddenly Exitar isn't doing his best to land on Earth to accomplish his duty ?



You are handwaving the part where Rogue is shown to be completely useless before Sentry own intervention because that suits your narrative.




Rogue tried and did jack squat.

I've bring proof on panel and you bring your opinion about it.





I've presented facts. I don't care if you don't like them because ultimately that's all that matter.

The more you pertaining that conversation, the more you are convincing me that you are biased.

About addressing some pertinent arguments... Where are they exactly ?




Read my previous posts again.



It does, I don't have to discuss fallacious arguments that suits your opinion over what happened into the story.

Refusing an answer on a irrelevant loaded question is a logical outcome.

The fact that you don't see why you are wrong speaks volumes about your ability at debating... Otherwise you wouldn't stick to your Argumentum Verbosium and drag down the debates with that poor attempts at antagonizing me like comparing me to Abhi and h1...



Very nice.

Now apply the advice to yourself.

If you don't understand why it's irrelevant, then read my previous posts where I explained why.



You literally want the last paragraphs.

Your posts are completely empty of arguments actually.




Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


You are trying to kill the debate with boredom.

OK. Relevancy of that paragraph = 0.





I don't care about how other people debate.

I don't care what Eliminist arguments are about Hal and Goku.

That's as irrelevant as the rest of your posts actually.

That's not worth reading.




Ok.

I-R-R-E-L-E-V-A-N-T




*yaddah yaddah yaddah*

That's just another chapter at trying to catch my character.

Uninteresting and irrelevant.

riv6672
Looks like there's nothing left to say.

RealityWarper
Same shit as aboe.



I noticed and I don't care.



Actually I'm the only one of us whom posted proof.

My scan about Rogue actually proved my point.

You posted an irrelevant scan about another issue with a totally different setting and context.




Do you mean when you are projecting ? It looks definitely this way.



It clearly doesn't.

Your post is empty of arguments or logical reasoning. sad




*read my previous posts*







Originally posted by One Big Mob
Then I am wrong.

Though continuing to repeat that Sentry is the most powerful man in existence doesn't help matters. And piggybacking off of Molecule Man to try and prove Sentry is the most powerful man in existence doesn't help. What is he?
However, Sentry is just as powerful as Exitar. Now what does that change in what I said?

Why is the omnipotent Exitar and most powerful energy source in existence only equal to Sentry in your opinion? Why would they say that about Exitar after Sentry stopped him?
Why why why?


You want to accuse everything you don't like as either strawmanning or irrelevant, then how about you stop using red herrings everytime you think you have a point?



How am I the fanboy here? Who am I a fanboy of, Exitar?

I'm a fanboy of what actually happened. I'm not adding in powers and piggybacking of of others to try and paint someone as the best thing since sliced bread. I want the feat to be seen as what the feat actually is. Which is already impressive. What I don't want is for people to ignore all logic and evidence to try and paint it as infinitely more impressive than it already is.

"Sentry just matched all the heroes on Earth."
"No wait, he actually matched Exitar and all the heroes pooled together are an insignificant feeb in comparison"
"He's the most powerful man in existence"

What is the relevance of Exitar's strength? If you can't actually explain why he did the feat, you can't try and paint Exitar as infinite. If you're going to ignore Exitar being omnipotent and the most powerful energy source in existence. If you're going to ignore him being half the plan and a summary saying it was a joint effort. If you're going to completely ignore the fact that no one has ever put all their strength into descending. Exitar's strength is largely irrelevant. We do not know what sort of power he was putting into his feat, nor do we know if he can put more into flying forward.

Yes I know he would be pushing. My entire point that has been ignored and handwaved away is that nobody ever has put all their power into descent. I've spammed it everywhere. You have never actually tackled it. The closest you've come is basically saying he was putting effort into it. Yes, of course he was. That however only syncs up with what I'm saying. I know he was pushing. What I don't believe is that all his ****ing power was directed into going downwards. I don't think he can.

Which is why in this instance, a normal person would actually provide proof that he was. That a statement would apply to Exitar that said they were matching his entire power. Any ****ing thing would exist somewhere for us to say this. It'd be the same shit if someone said Superman wrist curling a planet was his max power. No, it is not. It is not and never has been the most advantageous position. When something occurs out of the norm of how we view max power output, we do not assume it's everything they have with evidence. It's the reason why huge punches in comics aren't drawn as jabs.

Not only that, but the guy has to apply more or different power to destroy the planet. Are we to assume all of Exitar's power is used to land on the planet, and then he just uses a minuscule amount when he destroys the planet? That shit makes no sense. Especially when he's actually shown to be moving in a large force motion when he destroys the planet.

Could Sentry stop Exitar's punch just because he stopped his downwards movement? No? Then maybe you should reexamine the feat.






Did you just say the crew getting ragdolled and smashing into everything and the helicarrier being stopped suddenly is irrelevant? You realize that was in retort to you saying that is exactly what Sentry was trying to avoid, don't you?

This is what I was saying earlier. Why is it irrelevant? Because your headcanon exists that says he was trying to save everyone by not putting in max force? That still doesn't make it irrelevant. The crew smashed around hard. The portrayal is that Sentry was just trying to stop it.

Even if you can prove that Sentry was trying to save everyone by not pushing too hard (which I've asked for proof for), the overall example still stands as relevant and contradictory.

Now, maybe the explanation does exists. I'm not ruling it out. But when you keep saying the explanation like it's a fact, while I ask for proof, and then rule out what I said without providing proof but continuing to repeat yourself...
If you're lost, I asked for proof of what you said. Provide it. Don't sit on your ivory throne and pretend you're Mr Knowledge and everyone else is wrong.

It's not even important to the conversation, but I personally want you to prove Sentry was just trying not to cause massive deceleration (which happened when Ms Marvel stopped it anyway). It is an easy, simple thing to prove. So do it.



*sigh*

Argumentum ad Nauseam....

If Exitar wasn't putting all of his power in the descent, he wouldn't have been stopped.

Plain and simple.

For the rest I've addressed it plenty of times already.

You are trying to poorly overwhelm the conversation with over-lengthen paragraph and loads of irrelevant loaded questions.

The irrelevancy of your posts is as big as it is. Argumentum Verbosium I said.

riv6672
I could be mistaken.

DarkSaint85
Lol with him, there's always something to say.
Whether it's of any value, is a different story.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol with him, there's always something to say.
Whether it's of any value, is a different story. I imagine I got "No you are" a lot and told everything was irrelevant with no explanation. Whatever. I'm free now. I'm sure Riv can decide what's what since he's apparently reading the whole thing.

Also that conversation had nothing to do with the actual thread. Thread is still game on Riv.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Do you still not understand what scale means? Do you not understand what examples are?
I've said multiple times it doesn't matter how much power Sentry put into it. I'm not trying to lowball him. I'm saying it's the exact same thing.

Obviously I'm not trying to compare the power of the two, that's retarded. Even mocking this when you compare it more to a hydraulic press should have overruled this. But you are not thinking logically about it.

My example of the hydraulic is sound, because at least I'm presenting two cases with the same logical outcome aka two characters trying to counter a force going downward that they cannot stop at all.



I have all right to refuse answering to your poor attempts at moving the goalposts on irrelevancies. If you think that I will fall for this fallacious debating tactics only used by beginners, I will not.



The same way I will not convince religious fanatics that their god is a fictional character and that blowing up their asses will not give them a free entrance for some fictional realm. Understood. thumb up



I've actually told you that we can agree to disagree but hey, you are the one trying to antagonize me during 99% of the debate.

You are speaking about the scales but once more, you don't understand the difference in power between the heroes on Earth and a simple Celestial, so I guess that understanding the massive difference in power between Exitar and a single Celestial is too complicated. Right ?



99% of your posts are devoid at lecturing me...

Oh the irony ! laughing

Read yourself again please.




Here we are back at your habit at using the psychological projection. I thought you was done with it. I'm reassured.



Let's see:

Helicarrier falling =/= Exitar pushing down.

A simple observation give you the answer but you are so full into your faulty analogy that you cannot backtrack it. Too bad for you.



I will try again with keywords, because the previous sentences didn't hit you...

Finesse =/= Raw power.

Oh but maybe you don't what "finesse" and "raw power" means. Google it.

I assumed you knew those words. My bad.

No, it's not proportionally reduced because in the case of a "small test scale" all of the other settings have to be reduced accordingly. That means that Sentry power would have to be reduced too.

Anyway that's... ****ING IRRELEVANT.






Read above.



Exitar wasn't falling down.

Did you had physics class or... ?

Yeah, a man tried to avoid the weight to suddenly stop and kill everyone on board. Different context than versus Exitar where Sentry actually produced an effort to stop the Force going down.




Projecting.





The Helicarrier feat is irrelevant, it's not surprising that you keep trying to divert the discussion on something that have a different context.



Over-simplfying = changing an explanation to something that suits you = Strawmaning.





****ing irrelevant.

Sentry was far from using his full power because not only that was unneeded but dangerous for the crew.



Projecting...



Her effort was negligible.



Yes it does.



Sentry has destroyed Molecule Man. Heck, I wonder why they don't bring Rogue with all the powers of the world in every fight because that seems to be the ultimate answer for you.



Evidence shows she was useless because Exitar was sinking down and not slowed down.

https://i.imgur.com/5ekrtXQ.jpg





Sure pal.

If Joe the Funny Guy and an ant are pushing my feet so I cannot land of the ground, the ant totally 50% of the job too.

Rogue was completely useless. Deal with it.



They said Half of the PLAN, not the effort.

I've already posted the definition of what PLAN means and you handwaved it because it crushed your beliefs.

Rogue was 50 % of the IDEA, about the effort she was an INSECT, completely useless.



No, it is only relevant because if you put a metahuman and an human under the press and that the press is stopped, there is a big hint that's the metahuman whom stopped it and avoided the human to be crushed....

But hey, double standards.



Already explained above.



Yes she was trying to help.



Look at the scan that I've posted above, again, and tell me who is the one ignoring proofs on panel... Oh well that's you.




Yeah and Rogue powered by thousands of her kind was completely useless, as shown on panel.



It helps when it's not completely NEGLIGIBLE LIKE HERE.



It doesn't.



They were two to push and only Sentry had a relevant strength but hey... Hello to your double standards again. smile




It is just plain obvious.



It speaks volumes about your inability to grasp the context and ask pertinent questions.

Enzeru
1. Sentry provided 50% of the required strength to stop Exitar. Captain America said, that Rogue was only half of the equation. That's the only solid proof we have in the entire debate, so that's the only thing we can go with.

Also in that regard Realitywarper is a complete and utter moron. Like always. You have to be next level dumb to come up with the statement that Rogue did absolutely nothing and that it was all the Sentry. That's not bias, that's straight up a delusion, which needs to be looked at.
If he was a smart person, his proof would be Iron Mans statement after Sentry steps in to stop Exitar. Iron Man says: "Whoever the hell Wasp has holding that other foot--they've stopped the Celestial's descent!"
Now from the wording alone one could make the argument, that Iron Man doesn't mean Rogue and the Sentry, but rather all the people, who in Iron Mans mind must be holding Exitar. That THEY have stopped Exitar.
But again, I personally would call that poor wording, rather than Remender having the Sentry, and only the Sentry in mind.

2. The entire debate leaves way too many questions open, which can't be answered. How strong was Rogue actually? How much of Sentrys equal 50% strength came from himself and how much from the Death Seed power upgrade?

It was not about stopping the weight of a planet. Exitar was pushing down with much more kinetic power than the weight of a simple planet is.
We've seen Hyperion alone keeping two Earths from crashing into each other for an unknown period of time. Some argue that he was holding two universes apart. Even just holding two Earths apart would be interesting enough, but then he also slowed down a planet, larger than the Earth, that was approaching at 500.000 miles per hour. Hyperion alone. And Rogue had his strength. Rogue also had the strength of many other strong super heroes like Blue Marvel, Hulk, Thor eventually, Wonder Man, Captain Britain and so on, and so on.
Did all the strength levels of those heroes stack? Or was just the strength of the physically strongest one of them all active, and then additionally amped by gamma radiation? I kinda believed that all the strength levels stacked. Now did Rogue utilize all of that strength perfectly? Who knows.
How would have a regular Sentry at his best performed in the same situation? I personally would argue that he would have done pretty damn fine, if we look at certain stuff during his run... like his fights against the Void and what the Void did to high heralds like Hulk and Thor. Sentry has insane levels of physical strengths. He always had.

3. The entire argument with the bench press spotter and the hydraulic press are faulty beyond belief.

I won't get into the hydraulic press too much, because it's just RealityWarper being an idiot again, but... the spotter argument, I would like to debunk.
Some people try to take credit away from the Sentry by saying, that Rogue did all the heavy lifting and Sentry did the tiny bit necessary so that she could do all the work. You know, like spotting works, when you lift weights. Taking a little bit weight away can give you the needed strength to move the weight up. You'll often see that with forced negative reps, where a spotter helps you move the weight up, but you move the weight down on your own, since you have much more strength and control during the negative phase of a rep.

I've been lifting weights for years and I know how all of that works, but... I can counter the bench press argument the same way I told a guy "no", who asked me to spot him. It was a skinny guy, who I sometimes watched, while he was taking way too much weight and doing joint breaker reps. And one day he asked me to spot him on the bench press. I told him, that I couldn't help him out, because I had done deadlifts yesterday.

The bench press argument works in the exact reverse. Rogue could have done 90% of the work, but that was too much and she needed the last 10% from the Sentry, do stop Exitar. She on the bench, he spotting the weight up.
But Rogue could have also done the 10% of the work, not standing a chance against all of the weight on the bench and then the Sentry had to put in 90% of the work by deadlifting the weight up.
But that didn't apply for neither one of them. Rogue did 50% of the work and so did the Sentry. That's what one source (Captain America) told us, and then the summary of the next issue kinda confirmed it more or less as well.

4. Sentry didn't need Ms. Marvels and Wonder Mans help with the Helicarrier. That is overall such a weird moment in Sentry comics.

I personally think it was more of a tough balancing act, rather than a lifting task.
Sentry was in a similar position before, where he had to balance something arguably equally big and heavy like the helicarrier ( https://imgur.com/WdGS3CY ). Did did rather that than lifting the entire ship, since that would have killed people on board.
On top of that every time Ms. Marvel needed strength, Sentry was there to help her out ( https://i.imgur.com/qVQ2KSr.jpg ). On top of that Sentry offered to sink an island during a fight ( https://imgur.com/rNNyqNC ). Pretty sure that he wouldn't struggle with lifting an (EMPTY!!!) helicarrier.

5. Why hasn't RealityWarper been banned yet?

Ban him for his own good. He is constantly getting verbally abused by everyone.
At this point he has suffered so much mental defeat, that every time someone even dares to question his multiversal power level wank he goes defensive and starts throwing out random ass fallacies, without realizing that he is a fallacy victim (overloaded question fallacy, Dunning Krueger effect, backfire effect, four stages of competence and I could go on and on).

6. On topic:

Comic book battles are not about feats. The question is never who has better feats, but who would win in a fight. One could make an argument for Silver Surfer having more averagely decent feats than the Sentry - maybe even straight up better feats than the Sentry... But Sentry would still punch a hole through Silver Surfers chest. It wouldn't even be a close fight, if they were to fight for real. Everyone, who is free of bias knows that.

Superman-Prime: One Million might have questionable feats (which is also very, very arguable), but he would still beat the Sentry due to Supermans backstory and what exposure to solar radiation does to him.
I personally like to try to keep things simple, when it comes to overall power levels and in relation to those also power output and durability. In my mind the overall more powerful someone like Superman gets, the more molecular density he gets for example. And there is always a limit to how easy powerful molecule manipulations should be to pull such molecules apart. I mean, wasn't that one of the reasons why the Hulk has a slightly better resistance to molecule manipulation than many others?

I think that a character like the Sentry, who does a lot of stuff subconsciously is a perfect example to explain power and durability. Like when the Sentry punches an opponent into the ground... Why doesn't the ground completely give in and cause an Earthquake, which levels the entire city? Because he doesn't have the strength to do so? Of course he has the strength. He has done such stuff.
But I would argue that he subconsciously increases the molecular density of the environment to avoid all too much property damage.

The same applies to Superman. Now be it his assumed mental powers increasing his molecular density or all the solar radiation, but I personally believe that at Superman-Prime: One Million levels Superman would be too durable for the Sentry to get through with all of his offense. He wouldn't have the needed damage output to put Superman-Prime: One Million down.

But that's just my opinion.

PS: In the better character department Sentry ruins all of the Superman versions, even if you combine them into one Superdudebrocharacter.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Enzeru
Also in that regard Realitywarper is a complete and utter moron. Like always. You have to be next level dumb to come up with the statement that Rogue did absolutely nothing and that it was all the Sentry. That's not bias, that's straight up a delusion, which needs to be looked at.
If he was a smart person, his proof would be Iron Mans statement after Sentry steps in to stop Exitar.

You are actually the last person on Earth to have the right to judge my intelligence.

You are still reported for this.

Enzeru
Originally posted by RealityWarper

You are still reported for this.

We both know, that you're reporting me, because you can't stand the fact, that you'll always be living in my shadow, when it comes to Sentry knowledge.

But hey, at least when it comes to Sentry idiocy, all the spotlight is on you and only on you. You did it.

Impediment
How about we all cease the dick waving and the flaming before warnings are issued out, hmm?

Back to topic, please.

One Big Mob
There we go. To defend the bench press argument, I'm not saying it was akin to a bench press, I was just using it as an example to show that doing **** all with the bench press still has you pushing most of the weight. Even if it gets lodged on your chest and you can't move it, if a spotter makes it look easy, you are still moving most of the weight. Not zero weight like RW implies.
A more accurate argument would be to have both guys pressing, but that would defeat the highlight of how little it can look like you're actually doing, but you are doing a lot.
But yes, both Sentry and Rogue were in the same position. Rogue was just exerting herself longer, not providing more strength.

The helicarrier whatever you want to spin it into like Warper was doing was brought up because it mirrors the Exitar feat. One thing is falling, suddenly it stops. The people who came in didn't do more weight, they just provided extra power.
I still think Bendis just ****ed up though. It was intended all strength, etc, but it really doesn't matter. Sentry was ramping up his strength from that point on even in that arc. He went from a ***** to completely pushing in Femtron's shit. The helicarrier was when he was still acting like a pussy.

Both examples were brought up just to reinforce how help you know, helps, but I didn't know what I was getting into.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Enzeru
We both know, that you're reporting me, because you can't stand the fact, that you'll always be living in my shadow, when it comes to Sentry knowledge.

You are thinking WAY TOO HIGH OF YOURSELF.

I don't give a shit about what people think about me.

You are nothing to me.




Psychological projection like your whole previous post, indeed. thumb up

Impediment
I asked for everyone to return to the topic or action would be taken. I acted.

Everyone please return to the topic at hand and stop the bickering.

DarkSaint85
That point about Sentry being a power source for Superman is a pretty good one, actually. Power of a million exploding suns...powered by suns...good point.

riv6672
^^^Apollo derives power from the sun, too, yes? At least he did in the Wild Sorm days.
So, if he took a dip in Sentry, he might be off the charts.

TheHulkster

Stoic

DarkSaint85
Sentrys powers come from the Sun, according to handbooks

Stoic
To me, when a company gives the leeway to a character stating that they have the power of a million exploding stars, I believe that they've given that character near infinite power, and at any time can give him the power to save a crew of people dangling from a skyscraper to saving a planet sized vessel or greater from total annihilation.

It's as if Marvel broke the mold with this character, and the only way to keep him under wraps is to say that his power level depends on his state of mind, and then slap an agoraphobia sticker on the back of his head. Now once that was all said and done, they'd send him out as an apparent mid to high class 100, while knowing that he is actually quite a bit more than your average muscle jockey, which allows for the same amount of leeway that DC uses for Superman to be equally used for the Sentry by Marvel.

Superman was holding back, Sentry's mind wasn't stable. blah, blah, blah.

TheHulkster

DarkSaint85
http://i.imgur.com/nyfZ8vl.jpg1

Enzeru
You see, that's one of the many great things about the Sentry and something I really, really like about the character: the ambiguity.

The "one million exploding suns" power comparison... the following was absolutely never ever flat out stated, but if you think about it, you start realizing how smart such a catchphrase is for the Sentry as a character - and how great of a writer Paul Jenkins is.

Every time you see the Sentry accompanied by an inner dialogue, that is talking about the power of a million exploding suns, or all the power in the universe, or immortality, or even omnipotence... That's a little hint at Sentrys schizophrenia. Sentry is schizophrenic and as such he clearly has to deal with delusions of grandeur, where he views himself as something bigger than he is / might be.

I've watched interviews with schizophrenics and some of them talked about how there were times, where they truly and deeply believed that they were gods.
In my mind it's absolutely the same with the Sentry, when he talks about the power of a million exploding suns. That's his mind making him believe, that he is this once-in-a-lifetime / bigger-than-Jesus / Omni-God-person. But then you realize, that he can change reality on a molecular level and that's where the ambiguity really starts going.

Also no, Sentrys powers don't come from the sun and he doesn't automatically throw out solar radiation as his main source of attack. He can do that, but in general I would say it's just regular heat beams (by increasing the speed of air molecules and in process making them hot / setting them on fire).

TheHulkster

One Big Mob
Originally posted by Enzeru
You see, that's one of the many great things about the Sentry and something I really, really like about the character: the ambiguity.

The "one million exploding suns" power comparison... the following was absolutely never ever flat out stated, but if you think about it, you start realizing how smart such a catchphrase is for the Sentry as a character - and how great of a writer Paul Jenkins is.

Every time you see the Sentry accompanied by an inner dialogue, that is talking about the power of a million exploding suns, or all the power in the universe, or immortality, or even omnipotence... That's a little hint at Sentrys schizophrenia. Sentry is schizophrenic and as such he clearly has to deal with delusions of grandeur, where he views himself as something bigger than he is / might be.

I've watched interviews with schizophrenics and some of them talked about how there were times, where they truly and deeply believed that they were gods.
In my mind it's absolutely the same with the Sentry, when he talks about the power of a million exploding suns. That's his mind making him believe, that he is this once-in-a-lifetime / bigger-than-Jesus / Omni-God-person. But then you realize, that he can change reality on a molecular level and that's where the ambiguity really starts going.

Also no, Sentrys powers don't come from the sun and he doesn't automatically throw out solar radiation as his main source of attack. He can do that, but in general I would say it's just regular heat beams (by increasing the speed of air molecules and in process making them hot / setting them on fire). I worked with a schizophrenic who would go off his needle and quit, multiple times in two years

Once, we heard him singing to songs and talking on the phone for hours through the walls. Then he was walking in like minus 40 degree weather outside in his boxers with no shoes to go to another motel room only to get mad immediately and leave. It turns out his phone was cut off too. He went to work the next day and was rolling on the ground kicking things into place. He was not a very likable character.

tkitna
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://i.imgur.com/nyfZ8vl.jpg1

I've always seen that along with the handbooks but the character never has relied on the sun for any type of power up and the fact that Ultron, Doom, nor Reed Richards could not figure out his power source has me thinking something isnt quite kosher here.

DarkSaint85
It's the Sentry. Maybe all of it is valid. Maybe none of it is valid. Who knows, lol.

riv6672
Originally posted by tkitna
I've always seen that along with the handbooks but the character never has relied on the sun for any type of power up and the fact that Ultron, Doom, nor Reed Richards could not figure out his power source has me thinking something isnt quite kosher here.
^^^We could ask Jim Hammond.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11128/111284304/5602939-ht+9.jpg

tkitna
The Jim Hammond camp says his fire isn't just normal fire but of some other type of power source like radiation or something and that's why its effective sometimes when it really shouldn't be. http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/ne_nau.gif

TheHulkster

riv6672
And yet its canon. thumb up

TheHulkster
Originally posted by riv6672
And yet its canon. thumb up

Yet irrelevant since Hammonds Power is not solar based.

riv6672
Which is why asking him was what i suggested, as he mght have some insight.

tkitna
Hammonds flames had no effect on Sentry anyways. He just bluffed him into leaving.

riv6672
thumb up smile

RealityWarper
No amount of Special Pleading will protect Clark Kent from being totally disintegrated on a whim.

Sentry godstomps.

riv6672
Yeah, i'm gonna need to see proof of that.

TethAdamTheRock
Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah, i'm gonna need to see proof of that. He disintegrated Molecule Man

RealityWarper
Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah, i'm gonna need to see proof of that.

Do you even read comics ?

SquallX

RealityWarper

RealityWarper
Either ways he doesn't have what it takes to beat Sentry.

Zack M
thumb up

MrMind
Originally posted by RealityWarper
No amount of Special Pleading will protect Clark Kent from being totally disintegrated on a whim.

Sentry godstomps.
I don't think you even know who is in this battle

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Do you even read comics ?

Oh the Irony

RealityWarper
Originally posted by MrMind
I don't think you even know who is in this battle

I do know what SPOM can do.

I have read DC one million.

What you think is irrelevant. smile



Speaking about yourself again ? thumb up

MrMind
Originally posted by RealityWarper
No amount of Special Pleading will protect Clark Kent from being totally disintegrated on a whim.

Sentry godstomps.

It's not clark that's in this battle you retard

RealityWarper
Originally posted by MrMind
It's not clark that's in this battle you retard

I corrected myself, ****ing moron.

RealityWarper
Still end the same way than in other Superman threads...

Superman dies on whim.

https://i.imgur.com/v9CcEFT.jpg

Zack M
Originally posted by MrMind
It's not clark that's in this battle you retard

You should give up. He'll never get it.

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