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1.) When did Tarkin become a Grand Moff? I only ask because it seemed like a pretty new promotion in ANH.

2.) What exactly is his role within the Empire? ie. What does he do? What level of power/authority does he possess?

3.) Tarkin, Vader, and Thrawn all pop-into a Star Destroyer. Who assumes command? Who do the crew listen to?

1. He was pretty much made Moff of Greater Seswenna immediately after the Empire took over. The Grand Moff position wasn't made until 3 years after the creation of the Empire; when it was, he was the first.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Moff

2. Was technically still an Admiral near the beginning; basically governed for Sheev in his assigned sector. Could do whatever the f*ck he wanted otherwise. Kinda like a viceroy.

3. Vader is subservient to Tarkin as per a visual guide I can cite if needed. Vader is a head of state, but Tarkin and Thrawn are the head of government. Vader's role is ceremonial to a degree.

If Thrawn is in Tarkin's sector, he listens to Tarkin
If Tarkin is out of his sector with Thrawn's navy, he listens to Thrawn
Vader had to obey either of the two as they answered only to the Emperor, who was Vader's superior.

So, even after these Sith-y years, Anakin still didn't get promoted to the rank of the 'master'.

Of course not. He's the apprentice and would remain as such until he killed Palps. With that said, Kurk is incorrect when it comes to rank. Vader's "rank" is nebulous as he exists outside the command structure. He and Tarkin are the two most powerful men in the Empire besides Palpatine himself. Vader certainly wouldn't have to take order from Thrawn unless Palpatine himself demanded it.

Originally posted by Mendax
1.) When did Tarkin become a Grand Moff? I only ask because it seemed like a pretty new promotion in ANH.

2.) What exactly is his role within the Empire? ie. What does he do? What level of power/authority does he possess?

3.) Tarkin, Vader, and Thrawn all pop-into a Star Destroyer. Who assumes command? Who do the crew listen to? 1.) His actual promotion occurred in the Tarkin novelization, which was set in 14BBY -- 5 years after the events of RotS. This also aligns with the Thrawn novelization, as Tarkin was already a seasoned(and highly respected/feared) Grand Moff when Thrawn was just a Lieutenant in the Imperial Navy... He was also a Grand Moff LONG before Pryce had any iota of political power as well.


2.) This was Tarkin's initial role/responsibility after being promoted to Grand Moff:


But as I explained in the other thread: while his rank was *technically* civilian/non-Military, the Emperor allowed Tarkin the uncanny ability/power to walk into almost any setting(be it civilian OR Military) and immediately usurp control as he saw fit. We saw this when he took command of the Death Star right after its initial test was successful; no questions asked(Krennic's hissyfit notwithstanding.)

We also know that even Thrawn followed Tarkin's orders without question:

*There are a few other instances I could post, but I'm sure you get the point.


3.) The 'Rebels Visual Guide' states: "Except for Tarkin, Vader commands ALL of the Emperor's servants":
https://i.imgur.com/tMBojh7.jpg
IOW, Tarkin > Vader > Thrawn.

...And while I can't think of a reason why Vader would ever feel the need to waltz aboard the Chimaera and usurp control of it from Thrawn, he technically *could* do so if he wished. /shrug

Originally posted by ares834
Of course not. He's the apprentice and would remain as such until he killed Palps. With that said, Kurk is incorrect when it comes to rank. Vader's "rank" is nebulous as he exists outside the command structure. He and Tarkin are the two most powerful men in the Empire besides Palpatine himself. Vader certainly wouldn't have to take order from Thrawn unless Palpatine himself demanded it. Vader is above Thrawn, yes, but he's still Tarkin's b1tch:

https://image.ibb.co/f6ECdH/vader_is_a_btch.jpg

Outdated and no longer canon. Sorry.

Originally posted by ares834
Outdated and no longer canon. Sorry. lol so what canon source do you have stating otherwise?

Vader answers to Tarkin. It's obvious in ANH, it's explicitly stated by Dave Filoni in his Rebels season 1 interview on StarWars.com, and all but reiterated in the Rebels Visual Guide Galan cited.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is in serious denial.

The Rebels Visual Guide doesn't state Tarkin is superior to Vader, it merely states Vader can't command him. That certainly does not "reiterate" that Vader answers to Tarkin.

Originally posted by Kurk
lol so what canon source do you have stating otherwise?

It's straight up a non-canon source, I don't need any source to say otherwise.

I said "all but" reiterated.

You're in denial, man.

It doesn't even "all but" reiterate it.

Originally posted by ares834
The Rebels Visual Guide doesn't state Tarkin is superior to Vader, it merely states Vader can't command him. That certainly does not "reiterate" that Vader answers to Tarkin.



It's straight up a non-canon source, I don't need any source to say otherwise. So your argument is because it wasn't said in canon it can't be. M'kay.

Originally posted by Kurk
So your argument is because it wasn't said in canon it can't be. M'kay.

Except that's not at all what I said. Quit trying to strawman. I said your source is outdated and non-canon, which is true.

With that said, it's also obviously wrong as anyone who saw the prequels can easily see. Vader didn't climb through the ranks by riding Tarkin's coattails, rather he is Palpatine's right-hand man not Tarkin's.

Originally posted by ares834
Except that's not at all what I said. Quit trying to strawman. I said your source is outdated and non-canon, which is true.

With that said, it's also obviously wrong as anyone who saw the prequels can easily see. Vader didn't climb through the ranks by riding Tarkin's coattails, rather he is Palpatine's right-hand man not Tarkin's. Your response in itself is a strawman as is mine to yours. The question is whether Vader is subservient to Tarkin.

I presented my source from Star Wars: The Complete Visual Dictionary which was republished and released under the Disney brand in 2016.

Even omitting the secondary sources, it's obvious by A New Hope that Vader is subservient to Tarkin:

https://media.giphy.com/media/101HsDIQTwNWHm/giphy.gif


and

Tarkin: "Enough of this! Vader, release him!"
Vader: "As you wish."

Given that Vader in canon has ruthlessly killed plenty of military officers over trivial matters, it would seem unlikely that he would release Motti from his death, after the latter directly showed contempt for Vader and made a fool of him in front of high-command, other than because Tarkin ordered him to do so.

Originally posted by Kurk
Your response in itself is a strawman as is mine to yours.

It's not a strawman. You presented a source and I pointed out that your source is flawed. And the flaw wasn't some line unrelated to the argument but rather the very sentence you were using for your argument.

Filoni: "Because Tarkin's in charge. Outside of the Emperor, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody with more authority, especially militarily, than Tarkin. Tarkin outranks Vader. Vader has to listen to Tarkin."
-Source


Couple that with the Rebels Visual Guide excerpt that I posted above, and the Imperial pecking order is pretty clear, imo. Tarkin > Vader.

Originally posted by Galan007
3.) The 'Rebels Visual Guide' states: "Except for Tarkin, Vader commands ALL of the Emperor's servants":
https://i.imgur.com/tMBojh7.jpg
IOW, Tarkin > Vader > Thrawn.

...And while I can't think of a reason why Vader would ever feel the need to waltz aboard the Chimaera and usurp control of it from Thrawn, he technically *could* do so if he wished. /shrug Wait, was Sheev still keeping that a secret? I guess I never thought about it before.

When did he reveal himself (if ever)?

The fact that Palpatine was a Sith Master? Yeah, it was still a huge secret when the Empire was formed -- one that Palpatine only revealed to those in his closest inner circle(namely Vader, Mas Amedda, and Sly Moore.)

Palpatine's true identity was such a secret, in fact, that not even Tarkin(who, again, was basically the second most powerful being in the entire Empire) was privy to said information... He was left with his own personal speculations that suggested such:

1. i always assumed he was made grand moff way earlier than Star Wars

2. his role as grand moff is a level below Vader in the usual hierarchy;

3. Tarkin, Vader and Thrawn on a ship is Vader then Tarkin then Thrawn; Vader is the Emperors apprentice hes the Supreme Commander of the Army so hes for sure number now, i think the only reason Tarkin seemed to pull rank on Vader other than Lucas' short sightedness on how good Vader would be is that Tarkin was in supreme command of the Death Star itself

"During the Battle of Yavin, Lord Vader was apparently only Palpatine's observer aboard the Death Star, with operational control in the hands of Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin, even though Vader technically outranked him"
- wookiepedia

"Though Tarkin had a good working relationship with Darth Vader, whom he found efficient and considered an ally in the Imperial hierarchy, he was also unsettled by Vader's supernatural powers and mysterious nature, and disliked when Palpatine used Vader as a check on Tarkin himself."

- wookiepedia

Despite Vader's lofty position, Tarkin was among few Imperial officials willing to interrupt, stand up to, and direct Vader, behavior Vader tolerated.

- wookiepedia

Originally posted by ares834
Of course not. He's the apprentice and would remain as such until he killed Palps. With that said, Kurk is incorrect when it comes to rank. Vader's "rank" is nebulous as he exists outside the command structure. He and Tarkin are the two most powerful men in the Empire besides Palpatine himself. Vader certainly wouldn't have to take order from Thrawn unless Palpatine himself demanded it.

IRONIC.

If Vader ordered Thrawn to do something that goes against Palpatine's orders, am I correct in assuming that Thrawn wouldn't obey being that he's one of the few people who directly answered to the Emperor?

The only people in the Empire whom Thrawn consistently answers to/takes orders from are Palpatine himself, and Tarkin. Technically Vader 'outranks' Thrawn as well, but Vader was more of a behind-the-scenes persona during the Rebels-era, whose tasks/missions were very specific(ie. hunting/killing Jedi that survived Order 66.) So imo, the instances where Vader would ever be permitted to usurp command from Thrawn, and/or give him orders would be extremely rare to say the least. /shrug

That said, if Thrawn were given an order from Vader that directly conflicted with a preexisting order from Palpatine, Thrawn would undoubtedly follow Palpatine's order(unless that order was to kill the Chiss Ascendancy or somesuch.) Vader's intimidation tactics certainly would not be able to sway Thrawn into committing an act of insubordination, and more appropriately, high-treason.

I hate Palpatine. He does nothing for his empire. He sits like the old man he is.

Needless to say, the margin of rank-difference between Vader, Thrawn, and Tarkin is small enough to where mutual respect and situational factors determine who takes orders from who; it's more likely that they'll come to an agreement before resorting to the technical hierarchy.

Originally posted by Kurk
Needless to say, the margin of rank-difference between Vader, Thrawn, and Tarkin is small enough to where mutual respect and situational factors determine who takes orders from who; it's more likely that they'll come to an agreement before resorting to the technical hierarchy. Relatively small, I suppose, but still well-defined enough for us to know: Tarkin > Vader > Thrawn.

But yes, they all definitely share a great deal of mutual respect for one another -- orders between them are only divvied out on a very select basis. That said, when Tarkin speaks/orders, they listen/abide.

Originally posted by Galan007
Relatively small, I suppose, but still well-defined enough for us to know: Tarkin > Vader > Thrawn.

But yes, they all definitely share a great deal of mutual respect for one another -- orders between them are only divvied out on a very select basis. That said, when Tarkin speaks/orders, they listen/abide.


nah, Vader outranks Tarkin

For such a big baddie. Vader is commanded a lot. Lmao

Originally posted by relentless1
nah, Vader outranks Tarkin based on?

Originally posted by relentless1
nah, Vader outranks Tarkin No, he does not. Vader outranks/commands everyone except Tarkin.

Explicitly stated in the Rebels Visual Guide. Explicitly stated by Filoni himself.

Fellony*

Question- people keep saying that Tarkin was one of the empire's most powerful characters in both civilian and military affairs. but in my research I found that his title as grand moff was a civilian one, and the only military application he was ever in control of was the death star, and that was only because it was being manufactured in his territory in the outer rim.

so he was more of a civilian political officiant than a military one, no?

Ever heard of Governor Pryce? Holds a civilian title, yet commands the imperial forces.... confused

Originally posted by Mendax
Question- people keep saying that Tarkin was one of the empire's most powerful characters in both civilian and military affairs. but in my research I found that his title as grand moff was a civilian one, and the only military application he was ever in control of was the death star, and that was only because it was being manufactured in his territory in the outer rim.

so he was more of a civilian political officiant than a military one, no? As I have explained a few times now: while his rank was *technically* civilian/non-Military, the Emperor allowed Tarkin the uncanny ability/power to walk into pretty much any setting(be it civilian OR Military) and immediately usurp control as he saw fit. Barring Sheev himself, Tarkin was *the* most powerful man in the Empire.

As mentioned, we already know that even Grand Admiral Thrawn was obligated to follow Tarkin's orders, but another instance of him influencing both civilian AND military matters occurred in the Thrawn novelization:

After some bribing from Pryce, Tarkin promoted her from civilian status to the system Governor of Lothal. Typically Governorships were appointed through the Imperial Palace's bureaucrats, but Tarkin bypassed them entirely and granted her the rank/title on a whim. This showcases his massive political/civilian power.

Soon thereafter, Tarkin had the Imperial Navy's high-council promote Thrawn from Commander to Commodore, and give him his own Star Destroyer to command(the Chimaera.) He also had them promote Eli Vanto from Ensign to Lieutenant-Commander. This showcases his massive military power as well.

Originally posted by Galan007
As I have explained a few times now: while his rank was *technically* civilian/non-Military, the Emperor allowed Tarkin the uncanny ability/power to walk into pretty much any setting(be it civilian OR Military) and immediately usurp control as he saw fit. Barring Sheev himself, Tarkin was *the* most powerful man in the Empire.

As mentioned, we already know that even Grand Admiral Thrawn was obligated to follow Tarkin's orders, but another instance of him influencing both civilian AND military matters occurred in the Thrawn novelization:

After some bribing from Pryce, Tarkin promoted her from civilian status to the system Governor of Lothal. Typically Governorships were appointed through the Imperial Palace's bureaucrats, but Tarkin bypassed them entirely and granted her the rank/title on a whim. This showcases his massive political/civilian power.

Soon thereafter, Tarkin had the Imperial Navy's high-council promote Thrawn from Commander to Commodore, and give him his own Star Destroyer to command(the Chimaera.) He also had them promote Eli Vanto from Ensign to Lieutenant-Commander. This showcases his massive military power as well. On a side note, why does Thrawn outrank Pryce (or at least have the power to control her system)? She held the position of governor for all those years while Thrawn was just a commander like you said. Thrawn was just recently promoted to Grand Admiral as of season 3, so is there something else I'm missing?

ive posted evidence in an earlier post on this thread detailing the relationship between Tarkin and Vader; it boils down to Vader being outside of the normal hierarchy therefore not having to answer to anyone outside of Sidious; he acquiesces to Tarkin on the Death Star because he was there as an observer and enforcer via Palpatines direct order

Originally posted by Kurk
On a side note, why does Thrawn outrank Pryce (or at least have the power to control her system)? She held the position of governor for all those years while Thrawn was just a commander like you said. Thrawn was just recently promoted to Grand Admiral as of season 3, so is there something else I'm missing? The Governorship allows Pryce a certain degree of military control... especially on Lothal. That said, she is still technically a civilian, so Thrawn ultimately holds more power than her where Imperial/military matters are concerned. That's why he was able to reprimand her so severely after she destroyed the fuel stores -- even though the 'incident' occurred on Lothal, it directly affected the TIE-Defender project, which falls under Thrawn's jurisdiction.

Moreover, Pryce is officially credited as Thrawn's "subordinate", per starwars.com:


There was a time when Thrawn treated her as a peer out of political courtesy or w/e, but Pryce has WELL solidified just how damn inept she is as a strategist, tactician, and overall leader... So I don't think we'll be seeing Thrawn extend her any further undo respect.

Originally posted by relentless1
ive posted evidence in an earlier post on this thread detailing the relationship between Tarkin and Vader; it boils down to Vader being outside of the normal hierarchy therefore not having to answer to anyone outside of Sidious; he acquiesces to Tarkin on the Death Star because he was there as an observer and enforcer via Palpatines direct order https://i.imgur.com/tMBojh7.jpg

"Except for Tarkin..."


_____________________________________



Filoni: "Because Tarkin's in charge. Outside of the Emperor, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody with more authority, especially militarily, than Tarkin. Tarkin outranks Vader. Vader has to listen to Tarkin."
-Source

Originally posted by relentless1
ive posted evidence in an earlier post on this thread detailing the relationship between Tarkin and Vader; it boils down to Vader being outside of the normal hierarchy therefore not having to answer to anyone outside of Sidious; he acquiesces to Tarkin on the Death Star because he was there as an observer and enforcer via Palpatines direct order Great point.

Originally posted by Galan007
https://i.imgur.com/tMBojh7.jpg

"Except for Tarkin..."


_____________________________________



Filoni: "Because Tarkin's in charge. Outside of the Emperor, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody with more authority, especially militarily, than Tarkin. Tarkin outranks Vader. Vader has to listen to Tarkin."
-Source

He may not be able to order Tarkin around but Tarkin certainly cannot order Vader around either; when he got Vader to stop choking out Motti it was a courtesy really

Originally posted by relentless1
He may not be able to order Tarkin around but Tarkin certainly cannot order Vader around either; when he got Vader to stop choking out Motti it was a courtesy really Filoni: "Because Tarkin's in charge. Outside of the Emperor, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody with more authority, especially militarily, than Tarkin. Tarkin outranks Vader. Vader has to listen to Tarkin."
-Source

Darth Vader #12.... vader asks to make an example of Imperial officers, The Emperor says anyone but Tarkin, I have need of him... definitely makes it sound as if Tarkin is valued but he doesn't outrank Vader

Imagine Galan proving his point with legitimate sources, then still getting doubted multiple pages later lmao.

Originally posted by relentless1
Darth Vader #12.... vader asks to make an example of Imperial officers, The Emperor says anyone but Tarkin, I have need of him... definitely makes it sound as if Tarkin is valued but he doesn't outrank Vader He wasn't a Moff then; Just an admiral.

...I'm genuinely perplexed by the willful ignorance surrounding the relative authority between Tarkin and Vader.

Originally posted by relentless1
Darth Vader #12.... vader asks to make an example of Imperial officers, The Emperor says anyone but Tarkin, I have need of him... definitely makes it sound as if Tarkin is valued but he doesn't outrank Vader As mentioned, the Vader comic series is set just a few weeks/months after the events of RotS... Before Tarkin had even attained Moff status, let alone Grand Moff status... but even that far back and Sheev STILL made it clear that he was out of Vader's 'jurisdiction'.

By the Rebels/ANH-era, however, Tarkin was indeed Vader's superior officer. This fact is quite incontrovertible, tbh.

I've always wondered the same lol...Ive watched clips of Tarkin bossing around Vader, the grand inquisitor and even Thrawn, I was like wtf..next he'll be asking Sidious to bring him coffee.

SPOILERS

Reading the Vader comics Tarkin at the time was more highly ranked then Vader but then after the destruction of the Death Star Vader was put under the authority of the grand general. (Guy who warned Tarkin that the Death Star was vulnerable) after he ****ed up, Sidious gave Vader more authority and the executor star destroyer. The ex grand general got force choked fit his trouble.

In the newer comics I believe Vader was given even more authority and could kill anyone he wanted except Tarkin.

In return of the Jedi Vader was bossing around the grand moss that was in charge of the second Death Star

Sidious couldn't trust Anakin with big boy duties like overseeing the day-to-day military operations of a galactic empire. If he was in charge, everybody would be getting executed for forgetting to dot their i's.

I found this gem:

"He's so overwhelming in that first film, but you get to the point where you say, "Wait a minute, if he's so powerful, why doesn't he run the universe?" He even gets pushed around by the governors! They know the Emperor is the final word, so what happens is the same thing that happens in any corporation: Everybody worries about the top man, they don't worry about his goon. And by the time the Death Star is finished, it gives them the sense that they have a bigger, better suit than Darth Vader. In a standoff between the Death Star and Darth Vader, they have no question about who would win, and it's not this mumbo-jumbo Sith guy. So it's even more tragic, because he's not even an all-powerful bad guy, he's kind of a flunky."

This is from an interview with Lucas https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-lucas-and-the-cult-of-darth-vader-20050602

True that, he wasn't made full commander if the military IMO till later.

-In Darth Vader v2 #12(set shortly after RotS), Vader was officially given the title/rank of 'Emperor's Voice', and also headed-up the Inquisitor program. He was able to punish/kill anyone in the Empire(no matter their rank), except Tarkin.

-By the time of Rebels/ANH, Vader commanded everyone in the Empire except Tarkin, who was well-established as Vader's superior officer.

-In Darth Vader v1 #1(set just after the events of ANH), Vader was demoted by Palpatine as a result of his failure with the Death Star, and put under the command of Grand General Tagge.

-By Darth Vader v1 #25(set shortly before ESB), Vader had finally redeemed himself to Palpatine, and was given back all of his previous power/authority. However, without Tarkin in the picture, he was now *the* highest ranking official in the Empire, barring the Palpatine himself. This is also when Vader was officially given more of a militaristic role: Sheev gave him control of the entire Imperial fleet, and command of the Executor.

A more interesting question is had Tarkin survived the Death Star explosion whether Vader would have ended up outranking him.

Hard to say. Granted, Palpatine knew that Tarkin shared at least some of the blame in the Death Star's destruction, due to his arrogance of the weapon's touted superiority, but it was still Vader's fault that the Rebels were able to obtain plans for the Death Star in the first place. He was overly arrogant and allowed them to escape with the plans deliberately(even though Tarkin was counting on him to stop them):
https://i.imgur.com/tBsVdqD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/V2oTN6W.jpg

Had Tarkin survived the Death Star, they both would have been reprimanded harshly, but Vader would've undoubtedly got the shorter end of the disciplinary stick. Had he done his job right the first time(and stopped the Rebels then and there), the Death Star would have never been destroyed.

Yeah, I can't believe Vader would just let the Rebels go with the plans...quite possibly the stupidest thing ever. Was a cool scene those last few minutes, but still.

Perhaps Carthage should consider adding Vader to his list of incompetent characters to troll.

Originally posted by Galan007
(even though Tarkin was counting on him to stop them): He was? i thought vader was just doing his own thing?

Originally posted by Mendax
He was? i thought vader was just doing his own thing? Indeed. Tarkin was fully relying on Vader to stop the Rebel fleet while he handled the matter on Scarif.

Random Officer: "Sir, shall I begin targeting their fleet?"
Tarkin: "Lord Vader will handle the fleet. Target the base of Scarif..."
-Rogue One

Vader just let his arrogance in his own abilities blind him, and intentionally let the Rebels get away with the Death Star's plans -- honestly one of the single dumbest decisions/mistakes in SW history. As I said above: had Vader completed his task then and there and stopped the fleet, the Rebellion would have never obtained the plans, and the Death Star would've never been destroyed.

...Frankly, he's lucky that Palpatine just let him off with a simple demotion.

Um... Vader didn't let the Rebels escape Scarif intentionally. The comic scans are clearly referring to ANH when Vader and Tarkin let the Millennium Falcon escape the DS with the plans.

Ah damnit, I was blurring lines and didn't catch that. ><

Still tho, he was just strolling along while the plans were at stake. Cool scene however.

Originally posted by ares834
Um... Vader didn't let the Rebels escape Scarif intentionally. The comic scans are clearly referring to ANH when Vader and Tarkin let the Millennium Falcon escape the DS with the plans. Yep, you're right. I completely forgot about that.

Same end result, though -- the blame falls primarily on Vader. Tarkin only shares the blame because he trusted Vader enough to allow him to carry out that plan in the first place(against his better judgement, I might add.)

Tarkin: "You're sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship? I'm taking an awful risk, Vader... This had better work."
-ANH


Frankly, that makes Vader look like even more of an inept buffoon than I first thought. Had Tarkin survived the Death Star's explosion, he might've even been able to spin the happenings in such a way that *only* Vader was reprimanded, tbh. ermm

Random question-
where did Yularen fall in the Imperial pecking order?

Originally posted by Mendax
Random question-
where did Yularen fall in the Imperial pecking order? He was a Colonel. Senior rank in the ISB; mid-level rank in the Empire as a whole(just below General.)

That said, Yularen's status within the ISB held enough sway with the political figureheads that he could accuse damn near anyone in the Empire of wrongdoing(even if they outranked him), and subsequently arrest them, no questions asked. Governors, Senators, Admirals, etc. all fell under Yularen's umbrella in that regard -- he was basically the Empire's chief Internal Affairs officer(among much more.)

...But in your standard tactical/military engagement, he was subordinate to a great many.

Okay, so I'm guessing Tarkin was a Moff before grand Moff right? What rank was he before that?

Originally posted by Mendax
Okay, so I'm guessing Tarkin was a Moff before grand Moff right? What rank was he before that? Admiral; during TCW he was captain

Originally posted by Mendax
Okay, so I'm guessing Tarkin was a Moff before grand Moff right? What rank was he before that? He was an Admiral in the Republic. When the Clone Wars ended and Palpatine reorganized the Republic into the Empire, Tarkin was promoted to the rank of Moff.

ie. when Tarkin made a cameo at the end of RotS, he was already a Moff:
https://i.imgur.com/IuZJXSU.png


*He would become a Grand Moff a few years later.

The recent issue of Darth Vader helps narrow down Tarkin's promotion a bit.


The issue is set 3 years after RotS:
https://i.imgur.com/iUVbag7.jpg


By that time Tarkin was already a Governor and Grand Moff:
https://i.imgur.com/GMWg4R2.jpg

So doesn't that mean he became Grand Moff earlier than people originally said?

Is that comic more canon then the book?

Originally posted by Mendax
So doesn't that mean he became Grand Moff earlier than people originally said? Yes.

The Tarkin novelization is set 5 years after RotS. Darth Vader #13 is set 3 years after RotS. IOW, Tarkin was promoted to a Grand Moff at least 2 years earlier than the novel stated.

Originally posted by Mendax
Is that comic more canon then the book? There are no longer 'levels of canon' in Star Wars. When Disney acquired the franchise a few years ago, they deemed that all forms of SW media released after 04/25/14 are of equal canonicity. That said, the comics now hold just as much canonical weight as the films themselves.

So yes, the comic(ie. the more recent canonical information) essentially retconned Tarkin's promotional time-table by having it occur earlier than had previously been established.

nah, that policy is just there to look good. its not used

In what way?

The movie novelizations being secondary to the films, for example.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The movie novelizations being secondary to the films, for example. Tbf, the film-based novelizations are a special case. Obviously the novels were never published with the intent of completely supplementing the film itself, thus are only canon where they align with what is seen on-screen. They can also expand upon the films, so long as no flagrant contradiction occurs.

For example, the information provided in TLJ novelization pertaining to Snoke is why we now know so much about he and the First Order's canon background/history. The novel tells us how Kylo canonically survived Chewie's blaster bolt to the abdomen in TFA. The novel tells us another canon adventure Rey had with Luke on Ahch-To, which was never shown/mentioned in the film. etc. etc.

But yes, in cases where the film and the film-based novel overtly contradict one another, we defer to the film's depiction... So let me amend my previous post by stating the obvious: barring a select few cases, all forms of SW media are equalized under Disney's "one universe" policy.

It essentially functions how it used to. The comics/games/novels/TV shows don't have the authority to retcon the movies, nor do the comics/games/novels have the authority to retcon the TV shows. The only place of retcon is between the standard C-Canon sources, which is how it's always been.

I'm not talking about the ability to retcon films. I'm talking about all forms of media now being EQUAL to the films when no contradiction occurs.

That definitely isn't how it used to be.

galan your more familiar with the imperial hierarchy than most so i have another question-

Is there a particular reason why some characters refer to Tarkin as "Grand moff" and others call him "governor"?

is it just the writers ways of reminding us that he holds both titles? i mean, I noticed that people like Pryce call him grand moff, while Thrawn calls him governor. the title switching happens all the time.lol

Technically Tarkin's particular rank/title is somewhat situational, and is supposed to change in accordance with whatever issue(s) he is addressing at any given time. In all dealings with Palpatine, for example, he should be referred to as a Grand Moff. In military matters, however, he should be referred to as a Governor:


...But aside from Thrawn(and sometimes Vader), who typically did refer to Tarkin as "Governor" when they discussed military affairs, and "Moff" or "Grand Moff" when they discussed all other Imperial matters, no real distinction is usually made -- the titles/ranks are often used interchangeably. Simply put, Tarkin is Tarkin, and his position/status as the Empire's proverbial #2 was well-known to pretty much everyone in the galaxy either way.

Heck, even in this recent example Tarkin is referred to as "Governor" and "Grand Moff" in the very same sequence by his underlings:
https://i.imgur.com/GMWg4R2.jpg

As mentioned above: most writers tend to use the titles synonymously.

ok thx.

but if he's just a governor in military matters then how does he still outrank Thrawn and Vader in those settings?

As mentioned above, the 'Governor' title is primarily honorific in Tarkin's case.

Doesn't matter what you call the guy, he was still the Empire's second-highest ranking official in both political AND military affairs.

If there is still any doubt, this excerpt(from the Rebels Visual Guide) explicitly confirms Tarkin's standing within the Empire:

http://i.imgur.com/QJINpd1m.jpg


So once again: barring Sheev himself, Tarkin possessed more authority than anyone in the Empire(Vader and the Inquisitors notwithstanding.)

Putting this here for future reference:

https://i.imgur.com/tiK9Jvs.jpg
-Vader: The Ultimate Visual Guide

Haven't seen a slaughter so incredible like the one Galan orchestrated in this thread in a long time. Well done.

Originally posted by Galan007
Putting this here for future reference:

https://i.imgur.com/tiK9Jvs.jpg
-Vader: The Ultimate Visual Guide

These as well:

https://i.imgur.com/g8kZkVf.jpg
-Star Wars Character Encyclopedia (Updated 2016)


https://i.imgur.com/YZ5Ibs0.jpg
-Star Wars Episodes IV Visual Dictionary

Question-
Are there any canon quotes that mention how much ofthe outer rim Tarkin controlled? i know he controls a large portion of it, but is there anything more definitive then that?

Originally posted by Mendax
Question-
Are there any canon quotes that mention how much ofthe outer rim Tarkin controlled? i know he controls a large portion of it, but is there anything more definitive then that? Yes and no.

As you mentioned, a few sources state that Tarkin 'just' controlled a huge chunk of the Outer Rim:



Other sources, however, imply/state that he controlled the entirety of the Outer Rim:



http://i.imgur.com/2kkEMgOm.jpg
-Rebels Visual Guide



...Which is an even greater testament to the gargantuan amount of power/authority Palpatine vested in that man.

Originally posted by Galan007
Other sources, however, imply/state that he controlled the entirety of the Outer Rim:



http://i.imgur.com/2kkEMgOm.jpg
-Rebels Visual Guide



...Which is an even greater testament to the gargantuan amount of power/authority Palpatine vested in that man. These as well...

http://i.imgur.com/Hl0H7eYm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NT4EqmMm.jpg

-Star Wars: AEYNTK

so I suppose you all read Darth Vader #16?? The answer you seek is pretty cut and dry in there... Tarkin doesn't outrank Vader at all, hes got about as much authority over Vader as i do over my small intestine after spicy mexican

Tarkin is still a moff at this point. Also, Tarkin hasn't earned Vader's respect yet.

doesn't mean he ever got direct control over Vader at any point. Vader was sent to the first Death Star strictly as an observer and enforcer so yeah; Tarkin was in absolute control of that space station but hes never had any form of control over Vader

You are correct. Tarkin controlling Vader has nothing to do with him being in charge of the Death Star though. It's just a sign of mutual respect.

Vader Force chokes Admira Motti

Tarkin: Enough of this! Vader: release him.

Vader releases Admiral Motti
Vader: As you wish.

?

Originally posted by relentless1
so I suppose you all read Darth Vader #16?? The answer you seek is pretty cut and dry in there... Tarkin doesn't outrank Vader at all, hes got about as much authority over Vader as i do over my small intestine after spicy mexican As was explicitly stated on the intro page of this issue, Tarkin is still a standard Moff at this point in the story(ie. he hasn't yet been promoted to a 'Grand' Moff):

http://i.imgur.com/YobcRw3l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kSl4MZ7l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FEel3tBl.jpg


And like the plethora of sources I have posted reiterate: Tarkin only gained true authority over Vader when he became a GRAND Moff and Oversector Governor.

Simple.

question- where do Inquisitors fall in the Imperial chain of command?

In general, they are below Tarkin, Vader, Thrawn, and all other Grand Moffs. The Rebels Visual Guide has them in the same tier as Planetary Governors.

That said, Inquisitors still have command over the Imperial military, and are uninhibited when hunting Jedi:

How is it that Tarkin has authority over Thrawn

Because aside from Sheev himself, Tarkin was *the* top dog in the Empire.

Then Vader.

Then everyone else.

Grand Admirals and Grand Moffs are not comparable since they are not in the same chain of command.

Moffs hold military power just as would a grand admiral

They can call upon the military forces within their territory, but their area of responsibility is for all intents and purposes military.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
I'm guessing that's new canon as in legends the grand admirals we're above the grand moffs

Tarky is still bad ass Barring Palpatine himself, Tarkin > ALL. This fact has been well established across a slew of difference sources(both Legends AND canon.) Regarding Thrawn: Rebels made it abundently clear that he was olbigated to follow Tarkin's orders as well. I posted the pertinent dialogue on the first page, but here it is again:

Thrawn: "It's exactly this moment I have been waiting for... To wipe out!"
Tarkin: "I want you to capture their leadership."
Thrawn: "In such a battle it may not be possible to take prisoners..."
Tarkin: "Ah, but a man of your talents will manage. If we are to crush this Rebellion, we must make examples of its leaders."
Thrawn: "As you wish, Governor Tarkin..."
-Rebels S03E20

That said, not all Grand Moffs held an equal level of power/authority. Tarkin was very much an exception.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Moffs hold military power just as would a grand admiral Tarkin's authority spanned both political AND military venues. As mentioned, we already know that even Vader, the Inquisitors, and Grand Admiral Thrawn were obligated to follow Tarkin's orders, but there were a few other instances where his uncanny level of authority was depicted...

For example, it was Tarkin who promoted Arihnda Pryce from civilian status to the system Governor of Lothal(a promotion like this was unprecedented.) Mind you, in any other instance Governorships were appointed through the Imperial Palace's bureaucrats, but Tarkin bypassed them entirely and granted her the rank/title on a whim. This showcases his massive political/civilian power.

Soon thereafter, Tarkin had the Imperial Navy's high-council promote Thrawn from Commander to Commodore, and give him his own Star Destroyer to command(the Chimaera.) He also had them promote Eli Vanto from Ensign to Lieutenant-Commander. This showcases his massive military power as well.



Of course, this is all secondary to the fact that multiple sources confirm that Tarkin was the Empire's top dog, period...

http://i.imgur.com/QJINpd1m.jpg


So yeah...

Also..remember, When Vader was given permission to kill any imperial he wanted he was barred from killing Tarkin

If there was still any doubt at all about Tarkin's superiority over Vader...

http://i.imgur.com/Ur5cGbjh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OaOKQu8h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JL6KqyZh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2bwQTJEh.jpg

-Darth Vader Annual #2

In a nutshell...

Palpatine: "Tarkin has full authority over you, Lord Vader. Do not disappoint him. If you disappoint him, then you disappoint me."

That could mean anything though.

This matter is still up in the air. I hope Leeland Chee answers this one day in a twitter post.

Originally posted by Galan007
In a nutshell...

Palpatine: "Tarkin has full authority over you, Lord Vader. Do not disappoint him. If you disappoint him, then you disappoint me."

Ahhh, thank you good sir.

https://i.imgur.com/59gqosP.jpg
-Insider #184