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Morals on
No BFR
Takes place on a empty planet
You know, the usual. But I want to ask you guys something else. Normally I think HP DD only gets HP feats. Apparently thats wrong, and that it is the same doomsday in doomsday wars and OWAW. Is that true?

Yes, he is same in HP, Doomsday Wars and OWAW.

Anyway Doomsday wins.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
But I want to ask you guys something else. Normally I think HP DD only gets HP feats. Apparently thats wrong, and that it is the same doomsday in doomsday wars and OWAW. Is that true? Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed they are all one in the same.


At the end of the H/P series, Doomsday was seemingly perma-destroyed when Waverider and Supes dumped him into Entropy:
http://i.imgur.com/hLgtvoY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U2XzzGe.jpg

However, that faux-death was retconned in DD-Wars, wherein we learned that Brainiac had actually saved Doomsday moments BEFORE he was unmade by Entropy:
http://i.imgur.com/0eQePdH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Qq3C6rU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jxeEh3T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pcghcOb.jpg

ie. H/P Doomsday IS DD-Wars Doomsday.


With that in mind, at the end of DD-Wars the heroes were able to 'beat' Doomsday by dividing him between multiple teleportation booths at the JLA Watchtower -- essentially incapacitating/imprisoning him:
http://i.imgur.com/o9u7ORy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pqiTV9g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QOYcrtG.jpg

And during OWAW, Manchester Black broke into the Watchtower, released DD from said teleportation booths, and pointed him toward the Imperiex Probes:
http://i.imgur.com/mXG5bK2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sd3k0J9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OBEGuZt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8TNuECZ.jpg

ie. DD-Wars Doomsday IS OWAW Doomsday.


tl;dr
H/P Doomsday IS DD-Wars Doomsday IS OWAW Doomsday. They are literally the EXACT SAME character.

Couldn't you make an argument that he got more powerful in the later showings due to how his powers worked?

Only if you can prove that he encountered something that required him to evolve beyond. I've read all of the material and wasn't able to find any such instances, though.

When Doomsday was unleashed during DD-Wars, he was already more powerful than everyone he encountered, thus did not need to evolve beyond them. Exact same thing applies to when he was released during OWAW.

How powerful is OWAW & DD Wars Doomsday? Because in Hunter Prey, both Superman and Doomsday were extremely weak and pathetic, and Superman couldn't stop random missiles. It could just be the writer, because epic levels of PIS was filled in that story. DOS were weak too

Again:
H/P, DD-Wars, and OWAW Doomsday are all the EXACT SAME being. There is literally NO difference between them, nor is there proof which suggests that DD's power fluctuated in the time between H/P and OWAW.

And if you really think Superman and Doomsday were "weak" in the H/P arc, then this discussion will clearly go nowhere. Hell, even DoS DD was easily trans-level, and was only put down by a Superman who was in a fully unleashed/bloodlusted mindset -- the likes of which we have only seen him enter ONE other time in his entire character history.

...But hey, that's small fries amiright!?

Originally posted by Galan007
Only if you can prove that he encountered something that required him to evolve beyond. I've read all of the material and wasn't able to find any such instances, though.

When Doomsday was unleashed during DD-Wars, he was already more powerful than everyone he encountered, thus did not need to evolve beyond them. Exact same thing applies to when he was released during OWAW. Interesting. Though I would argue DD Wars Doomsday looked a bit better than HP, but could be explained as what you said.

Where would you place New Krypton DD, Gog Wars, Rebirth, and Nu DD in comparison to each other?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Where would you place New Krypton DD, Gog Wars, Rebirth, and Nu DD in comparison to each other? The clone who was gangraped by multiple Kryptonians? Impossible to say, as he was beat down almost immediately. However, he was still far stronger than any one(or two) Kryptonians. /shrug

Gog Wars DD *should* have been the most powerful version of DD ever, given that he had 100 years to evolve via continuous battle. On that note, he may have even been immune to BFR, otherwise the Gogs would have likely just dumped him in another dimension instead of getting ragdolled for a f*cking CENTURY... But then it took him "decadeS" to punch through a mile-thick wall of granite at the height of his power, so... ermm

Rebirth DD I have in the solid trans-tier, because his showings are indicative of such, imo.

Nu DD just came off like a rehash of the original to me. I'd probably have him no less than high-herald, possibly trans as well -- not entirely sure. It's also worth noting that even Mr. Oz felt him worthy of 'collecting'.

He's the version I'm least sure of, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Rebirth DD I have in the solid trans-tier, because his showings are indicative of such, imo.

Nu DD just came off like a rehash of the original to me. I'd probably have him no less than high-herald, possibly trans as well -- not entirely sure. It's also worth noting that even Mr. Oz felt him worthy of 'collecting'.

He's the version I'm least sure of, though. Just to confirm, you're talking about the DD who fought Lex, Supes, WW with Rebirth, and poison DD with Nu correct?

Does this mean Mr Oz collected poison DD and then he transformed into normal DD?

gog wars dd was the 'ultimate' form of dd according to that story. and he really was ridiculous compared to gog who was damn near a match for superman. but that granite? wtf?

he SHOULD have been able to one shot the PLANET, let alone a mile of granite...

Originally posted by XLR87T3
How powerful is OWAW & DD Wars Doomsday? Because in Hunter Prey, both Superman and Doomsday were extremely weak and pathetic, and Superman couldn't stop random missiles. It could just be the writer, because epic levels of PIS was filled in that story. DOS were weak too
Oh right, you're from comicvine where you can only be powerful if you are comparing marvel characters.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Just to confirm, you're talking about the DD who fought Lex, Supes, WW with Rebirth, and poison DD with Nu correct?

Does this mean Mr Oz collected poison DD and then he transformed into normal DD? No sorry, flip them.

Nu DD is the poison version who I have in the solid trans-tier. Rebirth is the version Oz collected.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh right, you're from comicvine where you can only be powerful if you are comparing marvel characters. You act like being on Comic Vine is so bad, and this is all coming from the biggest DC fanboy on KMC. If anything, you would have a lot in common there with the way you talk about DC characters, except even CV has standards.

But let's be clear here, this thread was made to attract Carver9, who would not survive on CV as soon as he starts saying regular Hulk can react at hypersonic speed

Originally posted by XLR87T3
You act like being on Comic Vine is so bad, and this is all coming from the biggest DC fanboy on KMC. If anything, you would have a lot in common there with the way you talk about DC characters, except even CV has standards.

Is that so? Tell us more about this site where Silver Surfer can solo Justice League and so can Martian Manhunter.

It's the only place where characters like Superman or Green Lantern have to validate their feats every issue or they are mid tiers if they don't. That obviously doesn't apply to marvel characters.

Comicvine is a joke. It's always been a joke.

Oh he doesn't survive here too. We don't just ban him.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
But let's be clear here, this thread was made to attract Carver9, who would not survive on CV as soon as he starts saying regular Hulk can react at hypersonic speed

You may not want to admit to baiting on this site.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is that so? Tell us more about this site where Silver Surfer can solo Justice League and so can Martian Manhunter.Well technically, the Martian did in fact solo the JLA in the New 52. It was a little ridiculous, but it happened. MM is just that powerful, and the Silver Surfer is even more hax, which is why writers make it a plot point to have him be an even bigger pacifist than J'onn.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It's the only place where characters like Superman or Green Lantern have to validate their feats every issue or they are mid tiers if they don't. That obviously doesn't apply to marvel characters.
That's not true at all! Superman and Green Lantern have always been considered high tier to herald tier by just about everyone there, I don't know where you get that from. If anything, Marvel has the most scrutiny on CV, especially Thor.
Yeah, no comment

Originally posted by Damborgson
You may not want to admit to baiting on this site. Oops? I'm sorry, I didn't know

Originally posted by Galan007
No sorry, flip them.

Nu DD is the poison version who I have in the solid trans-tier. Rebirth is the version Oz collected. Really, you think Nu DD is more powerful than Rebirth?

Superman went all out and couldn't even scratch Rebirth DD. Hell he hit him what 4000 times in the face and drew blood? I don't know man. Rebirth seemed pretty clearly on HP level if not above.

I made a mistake but it's too late to edit. The first quote was supposed to be "Well technically, the Martian did in fact solo the JLA in that one panel in New 52. It was a little ridiculous, but it happened, and I think that's just how the writers view how the fight would go down."

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Well technically, the Martian did in fact solo the JLA in the New 52. It was a little ridiculous, but it happened. MM is just that powerful, and the Silver Surfer is even more hax, which is why writers make it a plot point to have him be an even bigger pacifist than J'onn.

Could you show us where J'onn solo league in New 52? I really hope it's not a splash page of him fighting League.

If by hax you mean useless against most top tiers, sure.

Name one high end team Surfer has beaten cleanly. Or a top tier for that matter in past five years.


Is that why I am seeing a lot of threads on comicvine saying Odinson/Naruto/Random characters beat rebirth Superman because he has no feats?

Originally posted by XLR87T3
I made a mistake but it's too late to edit. The first quote was supposed to be "Well technically, the Martian did in fact solo the JLA in that one panel in New 52. It was a little ridiculous, but it happened, and I think that's just how the writers view how the fight would go down."
Solo?

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8614/16446575932_7040cf12e2_o.jpg

Where is anyone even koed for it to be J'onn soloing League.

This is how someone solos someone.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111143779/4617371-p27_34.jpg

Does that looks like a guy who can solo Justice League?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Solo?

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8614/16446575932_7040cf12e2_o.jpg

Where is anyone even koed for it to be J'onn soloing League.

This is how someone solos someone.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111143779/4617371-p27_34.jpg

Does that looks like a guy who can solo Justice League? It looks like epic PIS! Come on, you know that. WTF was that writer smoking?!?

And you don't need to KO someone immediately in order to solo a team. The JLA were clearly on the losing end, and J'onn had them on the ropes. Considering how he is usually portrayed as being the most powerful member of the JLA, even above Superman, it's not really a stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is that why I am seeing a lot of threads on comicvine saying Odinson/Naruto/Random characters beat rebirth Superman because he has no feats? Unfortunately, the problem with DC is that it fails at continuity and continues rebooting and retconning things, so Superman's actual power level at the time of engaging anyone at any specific time is completely subjective to the Writer. That is the main reason why people use versions for DC characters.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
It looks like epic PIS! Come on, you know that. WTF was that writer smoking?!?

Yes, really. What was the writer smoking. Must be PIS. Nevermind the fact that J'onn got his ass kicked by every kryptoninan/daxamite he came across. Even noob Zod almost killed him. Who couldn't even fly.

You clearly garnered that all from one panel? Where is JLA on ropes and losing?

Is that so? Do you want me to post the times Superman is shown as more powerful than J'onn or outright rescuing J'onn like the damsel he is?

But I'm curious as to where are all these scenes of J'onn portrayed as more powerful than Superman are. Fire away mate.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
Unfortunately, the problem with DC is that it fails at continuity and continues rebooting and retconning things, so Superman's actual power level at the time of engaging anyone at any specific time is completely subjective to the Writer. That is the main reason why people use versions for DC characters.
Except Rebirth Superman is explicitly the combined Superman from post crisis and new 52 Superman with both histories shown and referred. That's more than marvel characters who get retconned individually every time a new writer comes on board and where the whole universe was created anew after secret wars.

Still he needs to validate his feats or he is mid tier apparently.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Really, you think Nu DD is more powerful than Rebirth?

Superman went all out and couldn't even scratch Rebirth DD. Hell he hit him what 4000 times in the face and drew blood? I don't know man. Rebirth seemed pretty clearly on HP level if not above. Definitely not on par with H/P, but very powerful nonetheless.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Except Rebirth Superman is explicitly the combined Superman from post crisis and new 52 Superman with both histories shown and referred. That's more than marvel characters who get retconned individually every time a new writer comes on board and where the whole universe was created anew after secret wars.

Still he needs to validate his feats or he is mid tier apparently. This is false. Earth-616 = Prime Marvel Universe.

You can pick up any All-New All-Different Marvel Universe title and you will see a ton of Pre-Secret Wars references and flashbacks.

Secret Wars isn't a reboot like COIE or Flashpoint. The characters are the same and retain their histories.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
This is false. Earth-616 = Prime Marvel Universe.

You can pick up any All-New All-Different Marvel Universe title and you will see a ton of Pre-Secret Wars references and flashbacks.

Secret Wars isn't a reboot like COIE or Flashpoint. The characters are the same and retain their histories.
Same as rebirth and post crisis timeline then. And it was a reboot, the universe was recreated from scratch.

I thought that Superman was weakened due to New 52 Superman being a part of him? When they combined and became one again, he didnt become twice as strong, he became whole again.

Originally posted by XLR87T3
How powerful is OWAW & DD Wars Doomsday? Because in Hunter Prey, both Superman and Doomsday were extremely weak and pathetic, and Superman couldn't stop random missiles. It could just be the writer, because epic levels of PIS was filled in that story. DOS were weak too

Apokolips is far more advanced than Earth.
We all know that steel is tissue paper to Superman. Superman made it clear that the metal the missiles were made out of were too tough to punch through. That means they are far more durable than any Earthly metal.
Thus its not a low showing.
Darkseid vaporized each missile with less than half power.

Note: It takes more than trillions of times more power to vaporize (literally) something than to shatter it into pieces.

HP got hit with more than double the power than that the missiles got hit with. This is more than trillions of times more power than Superman's hv could do (or his punching power could achieve).

Hold up.

Doomsday wars DD looked better than HP DD?

I completely disagree with that.

None of the fts Galan mentioned puts Doomsday in the trans tier level.

Doomsday wrecks him.

Originally posted by carver9
None of the fts Galan mentioned puts Doomsday in the trans tier level.

Same superman as he always is.

@JL King...

It was outright said that Superman was weakened due to New 52 Superman.