Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

hello i have returned to talk about the last jedi and its implications on feminism and equality. many have been saying that this is a milestone for equality and white males have been going crazy about it which is usually a good sign. however after seeing the last jedi shortly after it was released and reflecting since then i think this is a whitewashed view of the film. yes the film made many steps to include women and the other cultures but there is a long way to go before true equality.

let's first look at the main protagonists of the last jedi. luke, rey, finn and rose. first this may seem like equality because we have two minorities and two white ppl. however this ignores that the white luke and rey were far more significant in the story. for example many have pointed out that finn and roses storyline was basically pointless and didn't change much. and this is unfortunately correct and probably explained by rian johnson who once joked about just having finn in a coma for the entire movie. that shocking quote alone reveals that this movie was not the liberating move as it was advertized. so basically the two main and significant protagonist remained white whereas the minority characters were relegated to the background. now you may point out that the main protagonists listed above have a gender balance and that makes it okay? unfortunately that is not the case. rey's role as an empowered woman was greatly diminished in this movie. this was partly due to luke's potrayal in the movie where he snubbed and mansplained to rey and was reluctant to train her despite earlier training a white male kylo and an entire academy. the way he treated her was disgusting and unlike the luke we know. and then there was the end of the movie where kylo literally says that rey is a nobody and that she did not have any special origins. both luke and anakin got special origins but rey is excluded.

now it is a more pleasant picture when we look at the more minor protagonists. for example poe is demonstrated as the embodiment of toxic masculinity but he is put down by admiral holdo who is portrayed as a strong and smart woman who all women can relate to in having to deal with ******* men. also leias so called superman scene was very empowering and her thwarting of poe's dumbass coup was a high point. however these factors do not outweigh the sidelining of the minorities and diminishment of rey as an empowered woman.

and unfortunately the inadequacies are further laid bear when we look at the antagonists of this film. both kylo and snoke are white men who attempt to use rey as a tool. the interactions between kylo and rey also suggest the start of a relationship which could further threaten reys status as an independent woman. captain phasma is a woman but she is horribly sidelined and killed off in a disgusting act. the codebreaker DJ is also a white male and he exploits and manipulates the two minority characters in the film which makes them appear idiotic and makes there important mission a failure. general hux is also a white male in a position of power with no equality among the first order ranks. however the first order is meant to be a replica of the nazis so this is not to be expected.

perhaps my biggest problem with the last jedi is that it ultimately did not make up for star wars decades of white male domination and unfair treatment towards women. in the original trilogy, leia was only one of four women who had a speaking role and even she was grossly sexualized in rotj. equality got better in the prequels with female characters like padme but even she was treated creepily by anakin and was depicted as powerless against him. star wars made a step forward in the force awakens and rouge one via a female protagonist but that protagonist was still white and also there was still a insufficient level of diversity in the rest of the films. the last jedi was ultimately a step forward but not enough to make it a truly feminist movie. those are my thoughts on the last jedi and thank you for reading.

True. But we're far more interested in Legends and comparing characters' capabilities here.

Originally posted by Geistalt
True. But we're far more interested in Legends and comparing characters' capabilities here. that is true but i saw some TLJ threads here and thought that this was a topic of great misunderstanding.

holy CHRIST this is retarded

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
hello i have returned to talk about the last jedi and its implications on feminism and equality. many have been saying that this is a milestone for equality and white males have been going crazy about it which is usually a good sign. however after seeing the last jedi shortly after it was released and reflecting since then i think this is a whitewashed view of the film. yes the film made many steps to include women and the other cultures but there is a long way to go before true equality.

let's first look at the main protagonists of the last jedi. luke, rey, finn and rose. first this may seem like equality because we have two minorities and two white ppl. however this ignores that the white luke and rey were far more significant in the story. for example many have pointed out that finn and roses storyline was basically pointless and didn't change much. and this is unfortunately correct and probably explained by rian johnson who once joked about just having finn in a coma for the entire movie. that shocking quote alone reveals that this movie was not the liberating move as it was advertized. so basically the two main and significant protagonist remained white whereas the minority characters were relegated to the background. now you may point out that the main protagonists listed above have a gender balance and that makes it okay? unfortunately that is not the case. rey's role as an empowered woman was greatly diminished in this movie. this was partly due to luke's potrayal in the movie where he snubbed and mansplained to rey and was reluctant to train her despite earlier training a white male kylo and an entire academy. the way he treated her was disgusting and unlike the luke we know. and then there was the end of the movie where kylo literally says that rey is a nobody and that she did not have any special origins. both luke and anakin got special origins but rey is excluded.

now it is a more pleasant picture when we look at the more minor protagonists. for example poe is demonstrated as the embodiment of toxic masculinity but he is put down by admiral holdo who is portrayed as a strong and smart woman who all women can relate to in having to deal with ******* men. also leias so called superman scene was very empowering and her thwarting of poe's dumbass coup was a high point. however these factors do not outweigh the sidelining of the minorities and diminishment of rey as an empowered woman.

and unfortunately the inadequacies are further laid bear when we look at the antagonists of this film. both kylo and snoke are white men who attempt to use rey as a tool. the interactions between kylo and rey also suggest the start of a relationship which could further threaten reys status as an independent woman. captain phasma is a woman but she is horribly sidelined and killed off in a disgusting act. the codebreaker DJ is also a white male and he exploits and manipulates the two minority characters in the film which makes them appear idiotic and makes there important mission a failure. general hux is also a white male in a position of power with no equality among the first order ranks. however the first order is meant to be a replica of the nazis so this is not to be expected.

perhaps my biggest problem with the last jedi is that it ultimately did not make up for star wars decades of white male domination and unfair treatment towards women. in the original trilogy, leia was only one of four women who had a speaking role and even she was grossly sexualized in rotj. equality got better in the prequels with female characters like padme but even she was treated creepily by anakin and was depicted as powerless against him. star wars made a step forward in the force awakens and rouge one via a female protagonist but that protagonist was still white and also there was still a insufficient level of diversity in the rest of the films. the last jedi was ultimately a step forward but not enough to make it a truly feminist movie. those are my thoughts on the last jedi and thank you for reading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4

Originally posted by SimeonFromHell
holy CHRIST this is retarded can you explain how??? have you ever taken a class or lecture in sociology or gender studies??? because i have attended many and i actually know about this stuff.

Hello,

Can I ask you to kindly leave these forums? The subforums of SW are very right-winged, and there is a common hate for feminists present. You won't find any success swaying people here to your ideas, probably the same with us regarding you.

There is no mutual benefit to come from our interaction. You won't find a positive reception from us, and you certainly won't positively view us. Your continued stay here would only bring both sides paine, agony and despiur.

I would kindly ask you to browse General Discussion subforums perhaps, which are known for a broad memberbase.

Regards,
Head Admin

Originally posted by JKBart
Hello,

Can I ask you to kindly leave these forums? The subforums of SW are very right-winged, and there is a common hate for feminists present. You won't find any success swaying people here to your ideas, probably the same with us regarding you.

There is no mutual benefit to come from our interaction. You won't find a positive reception from us, and you certainly won't positively view us. Your continued stay here would only bring both sides paine, agony and despiur.

I would kindly ask you to browse General Discussion subforums perhaps, which are known for a broad memberbase.

Regards,
Head Admin excuse me but i will not be silenced by right wingers and white males. i have dealt with their kind before. and if you actually researched feminism then you would not hate it.

Very well then, if you continue to post here despite the warning, I wish you luck in enduring the paine to come.

Wow, so that explains why I didn't feel butt-hurt after watching this movie.


You know aaylasecura95, I often wonder how a snowflake like yourself stumbled upon this cesspit of a website. I applaud you on being able to put up with us. clapping

okay guys kill this with fire
permission granted

-

you may fire when ready

Originally posted by Kurk
Wow, so that explains why I didn't feel butt-hurt after watching this movie.


You know aaylasecura95, I often wonder how a snowflake like yourself stumbled upon this cesspit of a website. I applaud you on being able to put up with us. clapping well if you noticed i actually left the forum for a while because i was frustrated. however i have returned to make a stand. there are many myths about feminism particularly in star wars that need to be addressed.

-

Now you will experience the full power of this fully armed, and operational forum!

https://media.giphy.com/media/k7VehXoJvOwpmXGsnn/giphy.gif

https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/14658452_1299391616748333_1207770009_n.jpg

Just know that no matter how much crap we give you, the Islamic world hates you more.

Love,
a bearded Irano-German

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.268848867.4735/flat,800x800,075,t.u3.jpg

https://i.imgflip.com/1mjis5.jpg

so white males implode when faced with arguments from feminists?? i am disappointed but not surprised.

-

you have no arguments
just gibberish in LeGenD's tier of English

trump will get u all literally dead as soon as he amasses enough power

support trump he will kill people like the OP when murica is fully in his hands and shutdown the feminazi shit like disney

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
so white males implode when faced with arguments from feminists?? i am disappointed but not surprised. If you want serious answers go to the general discussion forums. Ask for Robtard. Tell 'em Kurk sent ya. You'll be in better company there .

Good luck trying to get anything done here. We have our own group of beta-males here (KingJoker, Beniboy, Neph), but even they look like the epitome of masculinity when compared to yourself.

Something they never teach in history classes:

The reason Iranians made a bunch of effigies of Jimmy Carter was because he (or someone under his administration) arranged for the shah to make off with all the wealth in Iran's treasury and be welcomed by America with open arms. The reason the hostage crisis ended was because Ronald Reagan arranged for the bank where all the wealth was held to return it to Iran.

Also, every president since Kennedy has been in the Rotschilds' and Rockefellers' pockets, and Kennedy was probably assassinated for issuing Executive Order 11110. Ever heard his Waldorf-Astoria speech? The globalists didn't like that he took action to prevent them from manipulating (printing the shit out of) our worthless currency.

Ontopic, about feminism and equality.

Kurk, if mr Trump would give you a choice to do anything you want with hardcore feminists, would u rather gas them or put in concentration camps?

Originally posted by JKBart
Ontopic, about feminism and equality.

Kurk, if mr Trump would give you a choice to do anything you want with hardcore feminists, would u rather gas them or put in concentration camps? I would put them in a mental institution and have them studied so we know how to prevent any more from springing up.

Originally posted by Kurk
If you want serious answers go to the general discussion forums. Ask for Robtard. Tell 'em Kurk sent ya. You'll be in better company there .

Good luck trying to get anything done here. We have our own group of beta-males here (KingJoker, Beniboy, Neph), but even they look like the epitome of masculinity when compared to yourself. well then your position are clearly based on white male tribalism over actual intelligent arguments. and 'beta male' is a term usually used by alt-right dumbasses who are hardly the 'epitome of masculinity' themselves and are typically insecure. of course toxic masculinity isn't even a positive trait. if you actually researched your facts and learnt about feminism then you would not oppose it and my arguments in the OP would make sense.

If I weren't confident that Aalya was a troll, I wouldn't find this so funny.

@Kurk

yeah good choice tbh, did u read paper by John Alford, Carolyn Funk and John Hibbing - about the neurotransmitters build being dependent on genetics, and the transmitters having a huge impact on the way your brain processes information and thus creates political views?

very fascinating, you should read that if u are into biology

Originally posted by Geistalt
Something they never teach in history classes:

The reason Iranians made a bunch of effigies of Jimmy Carter was because he (or someone under his administration) arranged for the shah to make off with all the wealth in Iran's treasury and be welcomed by America with open arms. The reason the hostage crisis ended was because Ronald Reagan arranged for the bank where all the wealth was held to return it to Iran.

Also, every president since Kennedy has been in the Rotschilds' and Rockefellers' pockets, and Kennedy was probably assassinated for issuing Executive Order 11110. Ever heard his Waldorf-Astoria speech? The globalists didn't like that he took action to prevent them from manipulating (printing the shit out of) our worthless currency. so what you're saying is iran is evil and usa great?

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
well then your position are clearly based on white male tribalism over actual intelligent arguments. and 'beta male' is a term usually used by alt-right dumbasses who are hardly the 'epitome of masculinity' themselves and are typically insecure. of course toxic masculinity isn't even a positive trait. if you actually researched your facts and learnt about feminism then you would not oppose it and my arguments in the OP would make sense. Nothing you said in OP is factually incorrect, but it is largely interpretation based. Happy now?

Originally posted by DarthSkywalker0
If I weren't confident that Aalya was a troll, I wouldn't find this so funny. i have said many times that i am not a troll or a sock. read my arguments based on their merits please. i am sure you have heard about anita sarkeesian and that is a good start if you want to learn about feminism.

Originally posted by JKBart
@Kurk

yeah good choice tbh, did u read paper by John Alford, Carolyn Funk and John Hibbing - about the neurotransmitters build being dependent on genetics, and the transmitters having a huge impact on the way your brain processes information and thus creates political views?

very fascinating, you should read that if u are into biology I'll do that; Sam Harris also says argues something similar in Free Will.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
i have said many times that i am not a troll or a sock. read my arguments based on their merits please. i am sure you have heard about anita sarkeesian and that is a good start if you want to learn about feminism. That women is a fraudulent hack. Has said countless of misleading things about the Video game industry.

First thing to come to mind is when she attacked GTA V because it apparently encouraged the killing/beating of women, yet anyone with two brain cells to rub together would understand that the game allows you to kill anyone you please regardless of their sex.

She exploits the ignorant for her benefit.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
well then your position are clearly based on white male tribalism over actual intelligent arguments. and 'beta male' is a term usually used by alt-right dumbasses who are hardly the 'epitome of masculinity' themselves and are typically insecure. of course toxic masculinity isn't even a positive trait. if you actually researched your facts and learnt about feminism then you would not oppose it and my arguments in the OP would make sense.

https://media.giphy.com/media/sbGds8OHOBIC4/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Ursumeles
so what you're saying is iran is evil and usa great? Not quite; I'm saying that "we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy," (in case you haven't heard JFK's Waldorf-Astoria speech) and some of the people with authority in our country are complicit.

The people of Iran don't want war or anything with the US; they were just pissed when Carter let their royals steal the money they needed to operate as a country.

And the reason the leftists so desperately want to get rid of Assad is so that the Saudis can build their Qatar-Turkey oil pipeline.

The big picture I'm trying to share is that the "liberals" have historically been fine with screwing other countries over. Just like the Clintons with their "Haitian relief" slush fund. They didn't do jacksh!t for Haiti.

Originally posted by Kurk
Nothing you said in OP is factually incorrect, but it is largely interpretation based. Happy now? okay so you agree my facts are correct but just don't understand feminist theory. if so then i recommend feminists such as anita sarkeesian and kat blaque to get you started and then read up on feminist literature.

Originally posted by Kurk
That women is a fraudulent hack. Has said countless of misleading things about the Video game industry.

First thing to come to mind is when she attacked GTA V because it apparently encouraged the killing/beating of women, yet anyone with two brain cells to rub together would understand that the game allows you to kill anyone you please regardless of their sex.

She exploits the ignorant for her benefit. that is what the gamergate trolls say but did you know the same people were sending her death threat?? they are clearly trying to silence her.

and GTA V obviously allows the objectification and violence against women. there are prostitutes that can be abused and many other violent aspects.

Originally posted by Kurk
I'll do that; Sam Harris also says argues something similar in Free Will.
Sam Harris is solid, but overrated. Try the classics first.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
hello i have returned to talk about the last jedi and its implications on feminism and equality. many have been saying that this is a milestone for equality and white males have been going crazy about it which is usually a good sign. however after seeing the last jedi shortly after it was released and reflecting since then i think this is a whitewashed view of the film. yes the film made many steps to include women and the other cultures but there is a long way to go before true equality.

let's first look at the main protagonists of the last jedi. luke, rey, finn and rose. first this may seem like equality because we have two minorities and two white ppl. however this ignores that the white luke and rey were far more significant in the story. for example many have pointed out that finn and roses storyline was basically pointless and didn't change much. and this is unfortunately correct and probably explained by rian johnson who once joked about just having finn in a coma for the entire movie. that shocking quote alone reveals that this movie was not the liberating move as it was advertized. so basically the two main and significant protagonist remained white whereas the minority characters were relegated to the background. now you may point out that the main protagonists listed above have a gender balance and that makes it okay? unfortunately that is not the case. rey's role as an empowered woman was greatly diminished in this movie. this was partly due to luke's potrayal in the movie where he snubbed and mansplained to rey and was reluctant to train her despite earlier training a white male kylo and an entire academy. the way he treated her was disgusting and unlike the luke we know. and then there was the end of the movie where kylo literally says that rey is a nobody and that she did not have any special origins. both luke and anakin got special origins but rey is excluded.

now it is a more pleasant picture when we look at the more minor protagonists. for example poe is demonstrated as the embodiment of toxic masculinity but he is put down by admiral holdo who is portrayed as a strong and smart woman who all women can relate to in having to deal with ******* men. also leias so called superman scene was very empowering and her thwarting of poe's dumbass coup was a high point. however these factors do not outweigh the sidelining of the minorities and diminishment of rey as an empowered woman.

and unfortunately the inadequacies are further laid bear when we look at the antagonists of this film. both kylo and snoke are white men who attempt to use rey as a tool. the interactions between kylo and rey also suggest the start of a relationship which could further threaten reys status as an independent woman. captain phasma is a woman but she is horribly sidelined and killed off in a disgusting act. the codebreaker DJ is also a white male and he exploits and manipulates the two minority characters in the film which makes them appear idiotic and makes there important mission a failure. general hux is also a white male in a position of power with no equality among the first order ranks. however the first order is meant to be a replica of the nazis so this is not to be expected.

perhaps my biggest problem with the last jedi is that it ultimately did not make up for star wars decades of white male domination and unfair treatment towards women. in the original trilogy, leia was only one of four women who had a speaking role and even she was grossly sexualized in rotj. equality got better in the prequels with female characters like padme but even she was treated creepily by anakin and was depicted as powerless against him. star wars made a step forward in the force awakens and rouge one via a female protagonist but that protagonist was still white and also there was still a insufficient level of diversity in the rest of the films. the last jedi was ultimately a step forward but not enough to make it a truly feminist movie. those are my thoughts on the last jedi and thank you for reading.

Just a few thoughts from my own feminist perspective:

1) Finn and Roses storyline had plenty of relevance to the plot. I heartily disagree with people in this criticism. Finn goes from trying to flee the rebellion to trying to sacrifice himself for it and their plot is highly relevant to the chase plotline, even if its only to contribute to the failure of Holdo's plan.

2) Lukes "mansplaining" was actually wrong and Rey was largely in the right. For all his attempts to teach her that the Jedi must die she dismisses that viewpoint and proves that Jedi are still needed to protect the galaxy, with Luke ultimately being swayed to her position in the end.

3) Rey not having special origins yet still being able to compete with the special Skywalker bloodline is actually a huge positive in her favor.

4) Having white male villains do villainous things towards the heroes isn't a mark against a films message of feminism.

5) I do largely agree with you that SW has been white male dominated for the majority of its history and deserves criticism as such. I don't think its really fair to blame TLJ for that though or to say it isn't feminist because of the previous movies.

Originally posted by Stigma
Sam Harris is solid, but overrated. Try the classics first. excuse me but sam harris has showed sympathy for so called 'race realism' which says blacks are inferior to whites. he has also said many questionable things about muslims and their faith.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
excuse me but sam harris has showed sympathy for so called 'race realism' which says blacks are inferior to whites. he has also said many questionable things about muslims and their faith.
Indeed.

@nephthys: those are some interesting perspectives. it will be interesting to see where they go in the next movie. without rian johnson there may be an opportunity for greater importance for characters like finn. because although you raise a good point about that storyline being more important than most say, it is clear that finns role is downgraded from the first movie. also that is an interesting silver lining in reys origins but it sounded a lot more disappointing when i first saw it.
Originally posted by Stigma
Indeed. so why would you call him solid?? he spreads racist ideals that have no place in our society and also preaches hate about muslims in the same way donald trump does.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
okay so you agree my facts are correct but just don't understand feminist theory. if so then i recommend feminists such as anita sarkeesian and kat blaque to get you started and then read up on feminist literature.

that is what the gamergate trolls say but did you know the same people were sending her death threat?? they are clearly trying to silence her.

and GTA V obviously allows the objectification and violence against women. there are prostitutes that can be abused and many other violent aspects. No sweetie, the women you mentioned are mainstream hacks.

I'll stick to Shulamith Firestone, Monique Wittig, and Marge Piercy, among other true feminists.

I don't condone death threats or censorship from either side. Unfortunately Sarkeesian herself tried to sue her internet "trolls" which regardless of your political stances just looks immature and demonstrates a lack of tolerance.

Are you saying GTA V gives preferential treatment for killing women over men?

This video best sums up why Sarkeesian doesn't know jackshit about video games and exploits the ignorance of non-gamers (I don't support this man's side-comments or channel though):
Zdo07jS5VW8

i am not a 'sweetie' thank you. and gta V objectifies women and shows them as prostitutes and allows gruesome violent acts to be committed against them. it shows them as objects to be used by men. this article on tumblr has a quote that explains it perfectly.:

https://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/61508291558/gta-v-has-little-room-for-women-except-to-portray

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
so why would you call him solid?? he spreads racist ideals that have no place in our society and also preaches hate about muslims in the same way donald trump does.
Because he is logical is many instances, but not so much in others. He's OK, but not great. Solid.

Sam Harris preaches hate? How do you mean?

Sarkeesian is pretty bad, yeah. Or at least fairly mediocre. But the frothing rage she inspires is honestly quite disturbing and certainly comes from a sexist place. Whatever the faults of her content, they are completely outweighted by the glimpse into the fragile male ego and toxicity of nerd culture the absurd backlash to her inspired. In this sense shes a very interesting figure.

Hollywood is full of crap...this film is about feminism blah blah blah, then if it under performs it's the fault of sexist fans.

The movie has issues that have nothing to do with race, sex, etc

They have a weak emo kid as the main bad guy and treated the more interesting villain as a throw away.

As for Rey as much as they'd like her to be a new Star Wars icon, we just don't connect with her like we did with Luke skywalker. He was loved for his character, the way he interacted with other characters.

OK aayla must be a troll.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
OK aayla must be a troll. no i am not a troll or a sock as i have said on many occasions. you can look up on-line about feminist critiques regarding the last jedi. there are not many unfortunately but they are there and echo my criticisms.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
no i am not a troll or a sock as i have said on many occasions. you can look up on-line about feminist critiques regarding the last jedi. there are not many unfortunately but they are there and echo my criticisms.

There is always two sides to an argument. Unfortunately they are all not equal in quality.

All I say when I see Rey on screen is damn that's one cute chick, Kylo should grow a set and just tap that hard...use the force Kylo...use the force!

why lol
flat chest
average ass

Oh, no. I assumed that this would get ignored and lost quickly, and thus refrained from commenting. Am regretting decision.

So, as for the actual things stated in your original post, the movie was a movie. It had people in it. That's about as much it needs to be fair. The gender/race of the characters should not be taken into account. Simply even noticing the race/gender of the characters stereotypes them and puts them in boxes. I'm willing to bet that the creators were sitting around a table, thinking about where to put each character so that all people could be equal. A man and a woman (Rey and Kylo) were equals in their arc. Another man and another woman (Finn and Rose) were equals. A black person and a white person were equals in their arc together (Finn and Poe). I mean, you could really have argued that it was "anti-white" because Poe had such a small role/arc compared to Finn, as they were considered equals in the Force Awakens (same could be said about TFA)

The biggest problem, in my opinion, is noticing race and gender. These are just people. That's all that matters. No need to MAKE the "black one" and "woman" and "white man" characters based on these identities. Because these identities are superficial. Cosmetic. Unimportant.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Oh, no. I assumed that this would get ignored and lost quickly, and thus refrained from commenting. Am regretting decision.

So, as for the actual things stated in your original post, the movie was a movie. It had people in it. That's about as much it needs to be fair. The gender/race of the characters should not be taken into account. Simply even noticing the race/gender of the characters stereotypes them and puts them in boxes. I'm willing to bet that the creators were sitting around a table, thinking about where to put each character so that all people could be equal. A man and a woman (Rey and Kylo) were equals in their arc. Another man and another woman (Finn and Rose) were equals. A black person and a white person were equals in their arc together (Finn and Poe). I mean, you could really have argued that it was "anti-white" because Poe had such a small role/arc compared to Finn, as they were considered equals in the Force Awakens (same could be said about TFA)

The biggest problem, in my opinion, is noticing race and gender. These are just people. That's all that matters. No need to MAKE the "black one" and "woman" and "white man" characters based on these identities. Because these identities are superficial. Cosmetic. Unimportant.

Being serious for a while, ignoring the obviously 'tarded or trolling OP, this is a perfect post. I entirely, purely agree.

Nobody had problems with Jyn Erso in R1, nobody had problem that the Rogue One protags were "diverse". All of these characters were in their place, there wasn't any feeling of a forced agenda or a useless character just there to be different.

I don't think anyone has a problem with her being female it's just that they made other mistakes that hurt the film, Kylo being a cry baby, killing Snoke, killing Han Solo when it didn't even fully turn Kylo. Same with rogue one, didn't care it was a chick, I didn't like agitated at krennic being a weak villain, I did enjoy Vader making an appearance

Also at JkBart

Lol....she looks cute to me

Mansplaining... toxic masculinity...


Cringe level over 9000. Do me a favour and shove a rusty fishing knife up your fvcking vagina, you total pussy.

Bro calm down, have a cup of hot tea, then go stick a new cork in your man fanny.

http://origin.webcdn.theblackdesertonline.net/forum/service_live/monthly_04_2017/white-knights-assemble.jpg.png.8b5fb918a828fd5ee4701e4d9757a22d.png

.

Did you buy those?

Nope, I saw them online and thought you needed extra

Originally posted by JKBart
ignoring the obviously 'tarded or trolling OP have you ever considered that this sort of thinking is why this forum is dying?? when you just dismiss arguments as retarded because you do not understand the thinking behind them?? i have seen you do similar things to members such as chilled monkey when he tried to have an opinion outside the norm and it is very damaging to debate. members like you and darthant66 viciously mocked him and called him a retard for his views. now you are trying to pull the same tactics and as site head manager you should know better.

in regards to my op i would ask you to actually research feminist perspectives on things and try to understand feminist theory and how it is applied. i am not alone in my criticisms in this movie and some even go further than i do.

Originally posted by Trocity
Mansplaining... toxic masculinity...


Cringe level over 9000. Do me a favour and shove a rusty fishing knife up your fvcking vagina, you total pussy. i am not silenced by your abuse. i have heard many similar things because feminists on the internet get this a lot from men when they touch on these sensitive topics. but that will not deter me from discussing them when they are important.

Remember @JKBart , and my other anti-feminist peers:

"To defeat an enemy, you must know them. Not simply their battle tactics, but their history, philosophy, ART."

https://starwarsanon.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/thrawn-gif.gif


Read traditional feminist literature; understand their arguments; then tear apart these pseudo, attention-seeking, modern-day femi-nazis piece by piece using their own weapon against them.

That's what Exar Kun thought.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's what Exar Kun thought. Not familiar with him. Care to explain?

Originally posted by Kurk
Not familiar with him. Care to explain?

He studied Sith holocrons and was confident he could master the dark side without falling to it, but...well, let's just say he's known to history as one of the most powerful Ancient Sith Lords.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He studied Sith holocrons and was confident he could master the dark side without falling to it, but...well, let's just say he's known to history as one of the most powerful Ancient Sith Lords. Sounds like Dooku too.

That's a sh1t comparison to what I said btw; unless Thrawn is a Rebellion sympathizer now that he understands Hera and Twileks so much.

The dark-side of the force is addicting because it allows one to indulge in their emotions in an undisciplined fashion in return for instantaneous results.

The light-side requires self-discipline above all-else and is a long-term commitment.

I am not 'tempted' by feminist view-points lol. I am already indulged in being a selfish prick.

Originally posted by DarthPlaguis12
Nope, I saw them online and thought you needed extra


I think you could probably use them in your vagina too.

Try it out, get back to me

You guys are just reaffirming Aayla's stance.

Originally posted by Trocity
I think you could probably use them in your vagina too.

Try it out, get back to me

As I don't have one I'll have to talk with your mom, give me a week, she needs her hedges trimmed, and I don't mean gardening.

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
have you ever considered that this sort of thinking is why this forum is dying?? when you just dismiss arguments as retarded because you do not understand the thinking behind them?? i have seen you do similar things to members such as chilled monkey when he tried to have an opinion outside the norm and it is very damaging to debate. members like you and darthant66 viciously mocked him and called him a retard for his views. now you are trying to pull the same tactics and as site head manager you should know better.

in regards to my op i would ask you to actually research feminist perspectives on things and try to understand feminist theory and how it is applied. i am not alone in my criticisms in this movie and some even go further than i do.

i am not silenced by your abuse. i have heard many similar things because feminists on the internet get this a lot from men when they touch on these sensitive topics. but that will not deter me from discussing them when they are important.

Sorry but feminism is a joke in this country.

Woman are not oppressed here.

Aayla, or aalya or whatever it is, if you truly want discussion, why not respond to those comments which actually begin it? You reply to those who aren't focusing on discussing this. You seem as if you just want to convince them to see the "truth" you see, and don't actually care about discussing the things you posted.

And as far as your whole reverence for Anita Sarkeesian and Kat Blaque goes, it's not that we're not educated on these people, it's simply that we disagree with them. I'm sure that from your echo chamber everything seems like it makes sense the way you see it and all the people outside of it just seem misled. But other people have good points too. This has already been said by others, but I'll say it in my words. Two people can look at the same piece of data and come up with two different conclusions. This is not because one person is uneducated or stupid, it's because people are different, and think in different ways. Just because you believe something doesn't mean that anyone with your education would also believe the same thing.

The movie was clearly TRYING to push the agenda of equality. Now you can look at it and analyze it in a million different ways if you want to, and come up with whatever conclusion comes from your over analysis. But the creators were trying to make it look a certain way. And at the end of the day, does THAT even really matter. There is no reason to look at this film in terms of identity politics. If you have an answer to that, then please respond. Otherwise you just seem like you want to convince others of your position, instead of starting a conversation about it, as forums are meant to do.

Originally posted by Zentrex
Aayla, or aalya or whatever it is, if you truly want discussion, why not respond to those comments which actually begin it? You reply to those who aren't focusing on discussing this. You seem as if you just want to convince them to see the "truth" you see, and don't actually care about discussing the things you posted. um excuse me??? i have responded to posts that have addressed the post such as nephthys who actually seemed to understand feminism and made some good inputs. however many here seemed to hate on feminism without justification and i am asking them to educate themselves so they can engage with the thread.

most of the hate against anita sarkeesian is based on propaganda spread via gamergate trolls and by male youtubers who had videos which pretended to debunk her but actually massively misrepresented her positions. most of her critics also do not seem to understand the theories behind her critiques which would explain why they react negatively to them. i have spoken to many anti-feminists and that is my takeaway.

okay they were trying to push equality but as i said there were many elements that were unsatisfactory from a feminist perspective. that is not 'overanalyzing', imo, just looking at SW through another lens. a truly inclusive movie would have looked a lot different from what we got and that is my criticism. of course the movie made some steps forward but not enough. keep in mind that star wars has been dominated by white male characters for years and it is really up to disney to start making amends and including their entire audience in the franchise

now you may ask why it is a job for a movie to be inclusive and take these steps towards equality and get involved in this sort of stuff? well movies and other media are ultimately a reflection of our society and have effects on our children. just look at the recent inspiring black panther movie which resonated with many black ppl and made them feel empowered. it got a lot of money for a reason and that is because minorities have been longing for representation in media and are now starting to get it.

Lmao, ummm excuse me is right! Stop mansplaining, zentrex.

this thread is gold.

Feminist nut jobs

Aayla, you need to stop thinking from a group(Race/Sex) Identity ideological perspective.
Black people can think the same as white people ideologically, and disagree with other black/white peoples ideological positions.

Same with women, everyone can have a different view point regardless of Gender/Race.

Focusing on ones Race/Sex should be the last thing you do.

Tell me, how many minorities per say have complained about the original trilogy not being diverse enough? Ad don't bring up the SJW minority, they don't count.(as they complain about everything, and don't convey the beliefs of the vast Majority of people)

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Aayla, you need to stop thinking from a group(Race/Sex) Identity ideological perspective.
Black people can think the same as white people ideologically, and disagree with other black/white peoples ideological positions.

Same with women, everyone can have a different view point regardless of Gender/Race.

Focusing on ones Race/Sex should be the last thing you do.

Tell me, how many minorities per say have complained about the original trilogy not being diverse enough? Ad don't bring up the SJW minority, they don't count.(as they complain about everything, and don't convey the beliefs of the vast Majority of people)

good post. only part i disagree with is the last. alot of minorities do wish for minorties in SWs just not in the form that was depicted. everything else waa pretty spot on.

Originally posted by Haschwalth
Aayla, you need to stop thinking from a group(Race/Sex) Identity ideological perspective.
Black people can think the same as white people ideologically, and disagree with other black/white peoples ideological positions.

Same with women, everyone can have a different view point regardless of Gender/Race.

Focusing on ones Race/Sex should be the last thing you do.

Tell me, how many minorities per say have complained about the original trilogy not being diverse enough? Ad don't bring up the SJW minority, they don't count.(as they complain about everything, and don't convey the beliefs of the vast Majority of people)

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
um excuse me??? i have responded to posts that have addressed the post such as nephthys who actually seemed to understand feminism and made some good inputs. however many here seemed to hate on feminism without justification and i am asking them to educate themselves so they can engage with the thread.

You assume (wrongly) that we're not familiar with feminist theory, which is why we disagree with you. Many people on this post have already told you 1. that people can have different opinions even if they have the same data available to them, so disagreement is not a sign of uneducation, and 2. that this isn't the best post to be posting this, as the vast majority already strongly disagree with your opinions, which we've all heard before.



Well, don't apply what you think to be true of some people to all who believe the same things as them. And we understand her theories, the whole patriarchy theory, and the male gaze, and all that, it's just that we disagree with these theories, especially because they've never been considered by anyone but feminists. They reek of bias. And here's a video you might like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiOLkY5Spaw



They were unsatisfacroty because anything can be unsatisfactory depending on how you look at it. It IS overanalyzing, since none of what you mentioned was intentional, or would have effected anyone if YOU hadn't noticed it.



Once again, people would not notice any of this if they just stopped thinking about it. You're making an even bigger problem by thinking that skin color and gender is somehow a giant part of someone's identity and the representation of someone of the same gender or race in a movie is a representation of that entire gender of race in real life.