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So these days, Hal has some pretty great showings in his own book. He just beat an amped Zod straight up.

Is Hal currently the Number One Stunna among mainstream DC heroes? Is he favored over the Man of Steel now?

I'd say no.

Superman already met Hal, under the same writer, and he was handling him.

Hal IS the closest to him right now, though.

Superman already overpowered Hal and gave him a concussion holding back.

STOMP superman wrecks him

It is interesting that the Superman vs. Hal tussle was under the same writer as the Hal vs. Zod, and both featured the 'new' Hal with his new ring.

Trying to be objective, there are some clues to the writer's intent that are being overlooked. When Superman fought Hal, Hal was under Hammond's influence. The writer even has Superman say that he'd hate to see how hard the ring would hit if Hal was in his right mind. On the other hand, Superman is clearly not going all out either. But it's interesting that the writer put in that comment about Hal not bringing his full A game.

Against Zod, there are also some weird comments. Someone says that Zod under two suns is "Superman-level", though Zod makes it clear that the twin Suns amp him beyond normal one-sun levels. Isn't Zod normally Superman level? Was this just a throwaway comment that doesn't mean anything? Is 'level' meant to be taken very loosely?

Also, Kryptonians are presented as being beyond your average GL 1 on 1, at least that is the what seems to be implied. Even when Hal is gonna go against Zod, the sense you get initially is that this is an uphill climb for Jordan. And then Jordan makes a comment about air battles being 360 degrees, suggesting that maybe Hal is outskilling Zod more than he is more powerful. One even gets the sense from the fight that perhaps Zod is favored, but Hal won an underdog victory.

Still, the power ring is IMO the ultimate dynamic power device in a sense. Since it's based on willpower, I get the feeling that GL power fluctuates more than the power level of normal heroes, and that any GL is more likely to be able to punch out his weight (maybe far out of his weight) than a normal hero because of the dynamism intrinsic to GL rings.

Finally, some posters have suggested that Zod may have planned to lose--I guess we'll see about that.

At any rate, this is just one writer's opinion, and thus it is far from definitive. Still, it's interesting to try to figure out how that writer feels about GLs vs. Kryptonians in general, and Hal vs. Zod in particular.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
It is interesting that the Superman vs. Hal tussle was under the same writer as the Hal vs. Zod, and both featured the 'new' Hal with his new ring.

Trying to be objective, there are some clues to the writer's intent that are being overlooked. When Superman fought Hal, Hal was under Hammond's influence. The writer even has Superman say that he'd hate to see how hard the ring would hit if Hal was in his right mind. On the other hand, Superman is clearly not going all out either. But it's interesting that the writer put in that comment about Hal not bringing his full A game.

Against Zod, there are also some weird comments. Someone says that Zod under two suns is "Superman-level", though Zod makes it clear that the twin Suns amp him beyond normal one-sun levels. Isn't Zod normally Superman level? Was this just a throwaway comment that doesn't mean anything? Is 'level' meant to be taken very loosely?

Also, Kryptonians are presented as being beyond your average GL 1 on 1, at least that is the what seems to be implied. Even when Hal is gonna go against Zod, the sense you get initially is that this is an uphill climb for Jordan. And then Jordan makes a comment about air battles being 360 degrees, suggesting that maybe Hal is outskilling Zod more than he is more powerful. One even gets the sense from the fight that perhaps Zod is favored, but Hal won an underdog victory.

Still, the power ring is IMO the ultimate dynamic power device in a sense. Since it's based on willpower, I get the feeling that GL power fluctuates more than the power level of normal heroes, and that any GL is more likely to be able to punch out his weight (maybe far out of his weight) than a normal hero because of the dynamism intrinsic to GL rings.

Finally, some posters have suggested that Zod may have planned to lose--I guess we'll see about that.

At any rate, this is just one writer's opinion, and thus it is far from definitive. Still, it's interesting to try to figure out how that writer feels about GLs vs. Kryptonians in general, and Hal vs. Zod in particular.

In the Superman/Hal confrontation, Hal was seeing Superman as Parallax, so I'd wager he was more 'motivated' than usual. The writer had Superman give some lip-service with that line about "I'd hate to see how hard you hit in your right mind" but, at the same time, it came right after Superman hit him so hard he checked if he had a concussion and rattled him so hard he was snapped out of Hammond's control. This was after his heat vision overpowered his ring in a direct 'beam contest'. It's not a clean win, but as close as you can get all things considered.

As for the 'level under two suns' part, I'd wager the writer took into consideration that Superman is more powerful than Zod under normal circumstances , so that's why he leveled up the field of play, to make it clear the two suns close the gap. I don't see why level should be taken very loosely - unless we take two suns as loosely the same as a normal sun. Saying they're Superman level was said as a direct consequence of them being under two suns, so the correlation is quite clear. The line would make no sense if both under one sun and under two he'd be Superman level. Under this writer, the implication is clear. Others might not have Zod need two suns .


Kryptonians are definitely portrayed as above a Green Lantern. Zod roflstomped Kyle , and the other Green Lanterns en-masse didn't fare any better. Last issue they were all toying with the GLs and Faora directly overpowered multiple lanterns trying to restrain her once 'she had enough'. There is maybe a subtext that it wasn't in Zod's best interest to beat Hal, given his plan was to make the Guardians back off, but I don't think he was faking being KO/incapacitated. Maybe he didn't try as hard to win, but even so, it proves Hal can, like I said, KO/incapacitate Superman-level beings.

edit:

Also, check out Superman vs Zod/his son/Faora in the latest Action Comics arc with booster, to see how Superman compares with an even OLDER Zod + his family, who have spend decades under the two suns. Let's say it's not unfavorably..

Hal was also amped by Kyle's will.

And it's been well established will stacks well beyond the sum of its parts. As far back as Guy Gardners series, when he had the Sinestro ring, and joining his will with a green lantern allowed the two of them to catch up with a ship going at warp speeds neither could catch alone.

Let's not forget NU52 Superman (before the merger with Pre Flashpoint Supes) being confirmed to be MORE POWERFUL than Hal Jordan with the Krona's Gauntlet and the rest of the Justice League COMBINED during the Vandal Savage arc.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
It is interesting that the Superman vs. Hal tussle was under the same writer as the Hal vs. Zod, and both featured the 'new' Hal with his new ring.

Trying to be objective, there are some clues to the writer's intent that are being overlooked. When Superman fought Hal, Hal was under Hammond's influence. The writer even has Superman say that he'd hate to see how hard the ring would hit if Hal was in his right mind. On the other hand, Superman is clearly not going all out either. But it's interesting that the writer put in that comment about Hal not bringing his full A game.

Against Zod, there are also some weird comments. Someone says that Zod under two suns is "Superman-level", though Zod makes it clear that the twin Suns amp him beyond normal one-sun levels. Isn't Zod normally Superman level? Was this just a throwaway comment that doesn't mean anything? Is 'level' meant to be taken very loosely?

Also, Kryptonians are presented as being beyond your average GL 1 on 1, at least that is the what seems to be implied. Even when Hal is gonna go against Zod, the sense you get initially is that this is an uphill climb for Jordan. And then Jordan makes a comment about air battles being 360 degrees, suggesting that maybe Hal is outskilling Zod more than he is more powerful. One even gets the sense from the fight that perhaps Zod is favored, but Hal won an underdog victory.

Still, the power ring is IMO the ultimate dynamic power device in a sense. Since it's based on willpower, I get the feeling that GL power fluctuates more than the power level of normal heroes, and that any GL is more likely to be able to punch out his weight (maybe far out of his weight) than a normal hero because of the dynamism intrinsic to GL rings.

Finally, some posters have suggested that Zod may have planned to lose--I guess we'll see about that.

At any rate, this is just one writer's opinion, and thus it is far from definitive. Still, it's interesting to try to figure out how that writer feels about GLs vs. Kryptonians in general, and Hal vs. Zod in particular.
In the very next issue, Hal can use his will even though he was in total illusion.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T2eKU_2qtRM/WfBF2raouFI/AAAAAAAAFL8/sL0xdvRsGRs05jdynaV-BAz7wxVDI5a6wCHMYCw/s1600/RCO014.jpg

So no, he wasn't using any less power than usual.

hal can certainly beat him, but he wouldn't take a majority, not yet. him and ww are both moving up the ladder though it seems, to the point where i wouldn't be shocked if either beat him. /shrug

Hahaha, Superman notes that Hal Jordan isn't his normal self and would not be hitting as hard as normal.

The same two idiots in this thread bombard every other thread about how Superman under mental influence or mind control (Ivy vs. Batman's whistle, Lord vs. Wonder Woman SPECIFICALLY because he was seeing Doomsday. Sound familiar?) isn't operating at peak performance.

Maybe, just maybe, Hal Jordan would be approaching a fight against Superman differently than Parallax. Regardless, mind control/illusion etc. can be a useful barometer to some extent but it is at best supplementary evidence as it gives the writer a lot more wiggle room.

Originally posted by abhilegend
In the very next issue, Hal can use his will even though he was in total illusion.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-T2eKU_2qtRM/WfBF2raouFI/AAAAAAAAFL8/sL0xdvRsGRs05jdynaV-BAz7wxVDI5a6wCHMYCw/s1600/RCO014.jpg

So no, he wasn't using any less power than usual.

Shit like this is brilliant. Because Hal Jordan USING his ring = Hal Jordan at peak efficiency.

Split tbh and looking at both of their showings against Zod, Hal could probably tip the scale. Anyone using Hal vs Superman showing in the books as evidence is crazy. Hal would never fight Superman the same way he fought Zod (who was amped). Split or edge to Hal.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha, Superman notes that Hal Jordan isn't his normal self and would not be hitting as hard as normal.

The same two idiots in this thread bombard every other thread about how Superman under mental influence or mind control (Ivy vs. Batman's whistle, Lord vs. Wonder Woman SPECIFICALLY because he was seeing Doomsday. Sound familiar?) isn't operating at peak performance.

Maybe, just maybe, Hal Jordan would be approaching a fight against Superman differently than Parallax. Regardless, mind control/illusion etc. can be a useful barometer to some extent but it is at best supplementary evidence as it gives the writer a lot more wiggle room.



Shit like this is brilliant. Because Hal Jordan USING his ring = Hal Jordan at peak efficiency.

Hypocrites.

this otta go well from this point....

Close fight

Any other Lantern, Superman should win. Hal? With his unique ring? Tough one! He certainly has the power to win and should definitely take a few wins

6/10 Superman.

Originally posted by leonidas
hal can certainly beat him, but he wouldn't take a majority, not yet. him and ww are both moving up the ladder though it seems, to the point where i wouldn't be shocked if either beat him. /shrug The gap between Hal and the other lanterns is getting, frankly, ridiculous.

Zod was casually plowing through Kyle ].

Faora was taking on Kilowog + multiple other lanterns at once and beating them.

Then Hal comes and beats Zod alone.

not sure how i feel about that, tbh. i really like kyle and guy but it feels more and more like they are nothing more than supporting characters when both have proven in the past they should have evolved beyond that role.

Originally posted by leonidas
not sure how i feel about that, tbh. i really like kyle and guy but it feels more and more like they are nothing more than supporting characters when both have proven in the past they should have evolved beyond that role. They really want to hammer it down that Hal is the greatest. I don't think it's that Guy/Kyle/John are weaker, they've always had problems against kryptonians. It's that Hal has became that powerful. His willpower has been compared to the central power battery, for christ's sake, which is absurd.

Remember when people used to argue Hal is weak against this type of fighters, despite proof to the contrary, and his showings against Krona/Nekron etc. were not relevant to fights against "flying bricks"? Good times. Their mouth has a certain shit smell right about now.

The flying brick argument has always been stupid.

There is nothing special about brick fists, they apply force just as anything else.

You know, like supernovas and black holes and such; things that lantern constructs have easily withstood.

Its just the bricks they often come across are just that damn strong.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
I remember a poster specifically arguing that showings against Mongul or Shaggy Man weren't valid because they were not 'flying' bricks, only bricks.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Zod also handled Hal easily and then he switched it up in the rematch.

Hal's one of those guys who needs a couple tries to get an accurate reading. We saw him change shit up and even talk about it in the Zod rematch. The question is, would that tactic fool Superman? Hal tells Zod "This won't go like our last fight, Zod. I wasn't expecting to go up against a kryptonian". Which is weird, since he specifically said his name when they first fought. Superman he was, obviously, very familiar with.

I take it as he didn't have time to think/devise a plan. They just met and started fighting. In their rematch, he specifically keeps the fight to the sky, giving him the opportunity to get tactical and attack Zod from both front/back.

Superman is much more equipped in aerial fighting, that I don't think Hal can do the same thing to him. Hell, if they ever have a rematch, Hal probably won't be able to do the same thing to Zod, either, since he'll know what to expect.

I think if the fight proved one thing, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is that Hal's constructs can knock out Superman-level opponents, with the right tactic . Which bodes quite well for him, all things considered. But it was very specific to Zod's arrogance/lack of experience in air-fighting. Thus the 'pilot' 'theme' and shit.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Strangely mirrors my inner thoughts.

All the issue really showed to me is that he has the power to knock out Superman. If you put Superman in the same fight, I'm sure Hal could take him out a couple times doing the same shit but it wouldn't work past the surprise state. Same as Zod now.

I would be really curious to see how they'd write a rubber match now.

It's not strangely, we generally only disagree on your 'weakness' characters of yours.

The bolded part is what's really relevant. Especially in the light of all the talks on this forum of Green Lanterns vs bricks. How many Hal vs Gladiator fights do you think will pop-up? Heh.

I think Superman is much too familiar with Hal and the GL power to give him that chance.

Hal was holding back the second time he fought Zod. Remember when Hal killed (temporarily) Sinestrollax? He vaporized him AND Warworld. I think the same would happen to Superman if Hal went God mode.

Originally posted by Zack M
Hal was holding back the second time he fought Zod. Remember when Hal killed (temporarily) Sinestrollax? He vaporized him AND Warworld. I think the same would happen to Superman if Hal went God mode. What if Superman went God mode?

Superman would likely tank Hal going God mode.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hahaha, Superman notes that Hal Jordan isn't his normal self and would not be hitting as hard as normal.

The same two idiots in this thread bombard every other thread about how Superman under mental influence or mind control (Ivy vs. Batman's whistle, Lord vs. Wonder Woman SPECIFICALLY because he was seeing Doomsday. Sound familiar?) isn't operating at peak performance.

Maybe, just maybe, Hal Jordan would be approaching a fight against Superman differently than Parallax. Regardless, mind control/illusion etc. can be a useful barometer to some extent but it is at best supplementary evidence as it gives the writer a lot more wiggle room.

Because in all of the above mentioned instances Superman is noted to be operating at less than full capacity or not himself at all.

I know it's hard for some simpleton like you to understand but comics are more than pretty pictures.

Hal's will was not affected by Hammonds telepathy and there is no reason for Hal to hold back against Parallax.

It's single digit IQ syndrome again.

Do we really think that the writer intended to imply that Superman is significantly more powerful than Zod when both are under a full sun? So much so that two suns only puts Zod on par?
Has this kind of raw power edge over Zod ever been explicitly stated to exist under other writers?

Why would it need to be shown that way for it to be true here?

After reading the ending a few times, I'm leaning towards Zod throwing the fight. /shrug

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Zod also handled Hal easily and then he switched it up in the rematch.

Hal's one of those guys who needs a couple tries to get an accurate reading. We saw him change shit up and even talk about it in the Zod rematch. The question is, would that tactic fool Superman?

I like that Hal beat Zod basically the same way Kyle beat Mongul.

Only sub in a locomotive for two jumbo jets.

I can definitely see similar tactics working on Supes, if Hal could work it in (Constructs can operate at ftl speeds, so it can happen.)

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Do we really think that the writer intended to imply that Superman is significantly more powerful than Zod when both are under a full sun? So much so that two suns only puts Zod on par?
Has this kind of raw power edge over Zod ever been explicitly stated to exist under other writers?

Zod and Superman fought enough times for this answer to be obvious. Zod did extremely well against Superman. Hell, during one point he was just standing there allowing Superman to pound on him. 2nd time, it appeared Zod had the advantage. Superman even admits that Zod is moving so fast that he appears as a ghost. 3rd... Zod did extremely well... had an advantage imo and this is Zod without a sun amp (2 suns).

Superman was blind and weakened by magic of suicide squad black vault and held back as per Zod himself.

Shut up carver.

I love how he took key notes away

Superman was fighting Lor when Zod stepped in. This was a Superman who just came back from red sun radiation and a future Zod who is under two suns

don't let it be said that carv ever let's the facts get in the way of a good fiction.

Carvers response: "Zod was old. Old = weak."

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
After reading the ending a few times, I'm leaning towards Zod throwing the fight. /shrug

I just think so to.

I think Zod wants Hal to bring him to OA for one reason or another. That would actually be far better than the crap fest of that fight we received.

The thing is, Zod had no reason to fake anything, because he couldn't possibly have known the Guardians were coming.


And why don't the Guardians at least detain Zod long enough to get word from the only surviving authority from Krypton: Superman.

He's the son of a ruling council member. And simply one of the last representatives, period.

Make it a committee with Supergirl and Krypto, if you want.

Originally posted by $on OF krypton
STOMP superman wrecks him

hasn't zod done aerial combat numerous times? how come he didn't expect that from Hal


very end his son quoting "the battle mind yadda yadda not the first"

Originally posted by cdtm
The thing is, Zod had no reason to fake anything, because he couldn't possibly have known the Guardians were coming.


And why don't the Guardians at least detain Zod long enough to get word from the only surviving authority from Krypton: Superman.

He's the son of a ruling council member. And simply one of the last representatives, period.

Make it a committee with Supergirl and Krypto, if you want.
Pretty sure he knew there was no way he can take the entire corps on

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Pretty sure he knew there was no way he can take the entire corps on

He damm near did.

If not for Hal's plot armor.


It also looks like they're setting up another Zero Hour Parallax, going by his wish to stop villians permanently.

That proves the writer knows nothing of how a military is run.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
After reading the ending a few times, I'm leaning towards Zod throwing the fight. /shrug

ditto

Being aware of your vulnerable fronts has been true of armies since forever. Alexander the Greats success hinged on exploiting calvery's ability to flank much larger armies in pincer moves.

Originally posted by cdtm
The thing is, Zod had no reason to fake anything, because he couldn't possibly have known the Guardians were coming.


And why don't the Guardians at least detain Zod long enough to get word from the only surviving authority from Krypton: Superman.

He's the son of a ruling council member. And simply one of the last representatives, period.

Make it a committee with Supergirl and Krypto, if you want.
Dunno. It just seemed like it.

When he gets up yelling "we are building a new life... For that Lantern Jordan beat me. Is that law? Is it Justice? I say it is tyranny...", looks like he's hamming it up to get the sympathy vote.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XgmPqWg9jY8/WrtfVRt9WpI/AAAAAAABT8Y/Dfq06xwjWzsUCO8SuezPwock-xvqg7BRwCLcBGAs/s1600/018_0013.jpg

Then later on with the ending sequence.
Supposedly they could have slaughtered those GLs, but chose not to. He got what he wanted without endangering his broader plan. It's like he's playing chess while the Corps is playing checkers.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-88tIeP7nnNI/WrtfWKW3-4I/AAAAAAABT8k/px0nmFqnAZ0-FFYUCAj8Yjbrw0HENwPagCLcBGAs/s1600/018_0016.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pL0AzbxCLtw/WrtfWZ8p_RI/AAAAAAABT8o/9_-1LMOgXEMV9SgF9wamk3tXlf--FIpYQCLcBGAs/s1600/018_0017.jpg

Easily my fave villain right now.

Originally posted by cdtm
Being aware of your vulnerable fronts has been true of armies since forever. Alexander the Greats success hinged on exploiting calvery's ability to flank much larger armies in pincer moves.

Yeah but it's difficult to translate ground maneuvers into actual aerial battles.

I mean, look at our films for example. Every space battle is essentially the same as maritime fights.

Look at all the BZs and even threads. We're all familiar with the flight capabilities of the characters, yet most threads devolve into face to face punch feats in a single plane.

Originally posted by Sensui
Let's not forget NU52 Superman (before the merger with Pre Flashpoint Supes) being confirmed to be MORE POWERFUL than Hal Jordan with the Krona's Gauntlet and the rest of the Justice League COMBINED during the Vandal Savage arc.

COMBINED?
Who were the other members of the justice league at that time?
What issue? because I want to read it for myself.

Oh and i was reading what some others had to say about that too in another forum.

Is Superman more powerful than every Justice League members combined?

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/superman/4005-1807/forums/is-superman-more-powerful-than-every-justice-leagu-1918895/

Yes, Superman at this best is greater than the whole league combined.

He is stronger than the rest by leaps and bounds and maybe 80% as fast as the Flash.

Kismet showed that if Superman decided to take over the entire world he could easily do it.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yes, Superman at this best is greater than the whole league combined.

He is stronger than the rest by leaps and bounds and maybe 80% as fast as the Flash.

Kismet showed that if Superman decided to take over the entire world he could easily do it.

With martain manhunetr and shazam around?
I don't think so.
First of all shazam is superman level himself.E
qual or could abit more powerful then superman and martian manhunter as well.
Then there is the spectre.
He is exist in post-flashpoint dc and doctor fate too.

If shazam and martian manhunter are in the justice league and it's a fair fight,superman is not taking that version of the justice league down.
By the way what about all this talk you see in wonder woman threads and other threads that she is close to his power level and so his green lantern?
You always hear about wonder woman if she takes off her bracelets superman is going down.
I still don't believe that myself but you know those debates.
Anyway with superheroes i mention that are around and villains like black adam,superman is not talking over the world by himself.

Hi is middle level herald just like shazam for example.

A team of wonder woman,aquaman,shazam,flash,firestorm,green lanteran for example should be able to take down superman if they are at thier best for example and not holding back.
Heck shazam and wonder woman should able to it.
Maybe shazam himself.

Keep in mind hal jordan's power level has gone recently again and he took out zod finally in post-flash point dc universe.

By the way i remember john stewart post-crisis took down his justice team too in green lantern rebirth.
It had superman and supergirl on that team.

Originally posted by mace11
With martain manhunetr and shazam around?
I don't think so.
First of all shazam is superman level himself.E
qual or could abit more powerful then superman and martian manhunter as well.
Then there is the spectre.
He is exist in post-flashpoint dc and doctor fate too.

If shazam and martian manhunter are in the justice league and it's a fair fight,superman is not taking that version of the justice league down.
By the way what about all this talk you see in wonder woman threads and other threads that she is close to his power level and so his green lantern?
You always hear about wonder woman if she takes off her bracelets superman is going down.
I still don't believe that myself but you know those debates.
Anyway with superheroes i mention that are around and villains like black adam,superman is not talking over the world by himself.

Hi is middle level herald just like shazam for example.

A team of wonder woman,aquaman,shazam,flash,firestorm,green lanteran for example should be able to take down superman if they are at thier best for example and not holding back.
Heck shazam and wonder woman should able to it.
Maybe shazam himself.

Keep in mind hal jordan's power level has gone recently again and he took out zod finally in post-flash point dc universe.

By the way i remember john stewart post-crisis took down his justice team too in green lantern rebirth.
It had superman and supergirl on that team.

lol.. you seem to think what he said is up for dispute... it isnt.

Superman was directly shown to be quantifiably more powerful than those characters. Period. oh.. and that was a fractured Nu 52 Superman who iirc was weakened at the time.

Also we've seen that of 1991, Superman portrayed as being abel to take over the world if he went evil. Period.

hi middle herald.. lol you marvel fanboys. He could wreck almost any 2-3 Heralds by himself.

Originally posted by panthergod
lol.. you seem to think what he said is up for dispute... it isnt.

Superman was directly shown to be quantifiably more powerful than those characters. Period. oh.. and that was a fractured Nu 52 Superman who iirc was weakened at the time.

Also we've seen that of 1991, Superman portrayed as being abel to take over the world if he went evil. Period.

hi middle herald.. lol you marvel fanboys. He could wreck almost any 2-3 Heralds by himself.

Lol at this post and my fave character has been fighting teams that consist of Heralds during his creation. So why would I have anything against any of DC weak links.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I love how he took key notes away

Superman was fighting Lor when Zod stepped in. This was a Superman who just came back from red sun radiation and a future Zod who is under two suns Superman also then beat the future son of Zod after he had JUST gotten out of kryptonite.

Originally posted by mace11
Is Superman more powerful than every Justice League members combined?

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/superman/4005-1807/forums/is-superman-more-powerful-than-every-justice-leagu-1918895/ Yes.

Superman's power was specifically stated to be above the combined Justice League in the arc when Vandal Savage was harvesting their might.

Mind posting the scan of that statement?

Now...That's...some insane shit

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Now...That's...some insane shit

The fact that it's not just a statement, but an actual machine that directly uses their power is ridiculous. It's the closest you can get with the "Rocky/Ivan Drago punching measurement".

I think it's the best and most impressive relative power showing...ever.

where'd that put Superman based on that?

Originally posted by panthergod
lol.. you seem to think what he said is up for dispute... it isnt.

Superman was directly shown to be quantifiably more powerful than those characters. Period. oh.. and that was a fractured Nu 52 Superman who iirc was weakened at the time.

Also we've seen that of 1991, Superman portrayed as being abel to take over the world if he went evil. Period.

hi middle herald.. lol you marvel fanboys. He could wreck almost any 2-3 Heralds by himself.

DC fanboys use the term too.
I was just using a term that is use alot online.
Stick with dc.

I was using term herald to put where superman power level was at.
What do dc fanboys use by the way to compare power levels?
Let's use that instead.

Anyway let me use a term that some dc and marvel fans use online since you were distracted by the word herald.

Superman is a top tier superhero just like shazam and wonder woman.
He would be in the middle level of that and so would shazam.
Wonder woman would be low level of that.

As for superman wrecking almost any 2-3 heralds himself?
Well he could wreck 1 or 2 low level ones,but those who are middle level? he is not wrecking 2-3.


As for dc,he is not wrecking shazam or martain manhunter and current hal jordan.

He is not taking over the world with these other heroes around.
He is not beating spectre either.
So i have to disagree with that point of view that he will beat a justice league team with certain members on it.


He is not beating a team with shazam,martian manhunter,flash,firestorm,current hal and wonder woman on it for example.

Wait... that's not Hal with the gauntlet.. Hal doesn't even have the gauntlet in the final justice league arc

By the way someone could say new52 superman is more powerful than shazam,martain manhunter and current hal jordan individually but saying he would beat just those three as a team for example and even more so if they were not holding back and really serious is not happening.

Oh and they said in one of the superman comics that post-crisis superman in post flashpoint universe was equally powerful to new52 superman.
It was story arc when new52 superman was dying.

Originally posted by mace11
DC fanboys use the term too.
I was just using a term that is use alot online.
Stick with dc.

I was using term herald to put where superman power level was at.
What do dc fanboys use by the way to compare power levels?
Let's use that instead.

Anyway let me use a term that some dc and marvel fans use online since you were distracted by the word herald.

Superman is a top tier superhero just like shazam and wonder woman.
He would be in the middle level of that and so would shazam.
Wonder woman would be low level of that.

As for superman wrecking almost any 2-3 heralds himself?
Well he could wreck 1 or 2 low level ones,but those who are middle level? he is not wrecking 2-3.


As for dc,he is not wrecking shazam or martain manhunter and current hal jordan.

He is not taking over the world with these other heroes around.
He is not beating spectre either.
So i have to disagree with that point of view that he will beat a justice league team with certain members on it.


He is not beating a team with shazam,martian manhunter,flash,firestorm,current hal and wonder woman on it for example. Ridiculous post, Superman is really not a "herald" His output is above that. He has more vulnerabilities than most heralds, but his output is higher than any herald. He is not as versatile as some but he really still can pull new powers out of his ass when needed. Philo is right in straight up combat he is just too strong and too fast for heralds.

By the way i just read the scans.
See this is what happens when things are taken out of context.
Vandal said he gather a enough power from earth so-called heroes.
Meaning he did not care for any more of thier powers since superman is there.He was not taking anymore of those other heroes powers.
Vandal top prize was superman power.
He does not say superman's power level is more powerful then superheroes powers he taking combined.
He was saying superman power level was higher then ones he was taking.
Some of you superman fanboys are something else.
This what i mean taking things of of context.
This one of the reasons why i stop coming to forums like this or slowed down coming to place like this and comicvine etc..

Originally posted by Putinbot1
Ridiculous post, Superman is really not a "herald" His output is above that. He has more vulnerabilities than most heralds, but his output is higher than any herald. He is not as versatile as some but he really still can pull new powers out of his ass when needed. Philo is right in straight up combat he is just too strong and too fast for heralds.

That is a pre-crisis superman and maybe superboy prime you are talking about.
Not new52 superman or rebirth superman and even those supermen could not do pull any new power out when needed.
The one that was able to that the most was pre-crisis superman.
There is a reason why they scaled back superman power level's after pre-crisis.
See this what i was trying to get you do do.
Some of you do not fool me.
I wanted you to directly tell me where on power scale some of you think superman is at.
Got you in may trap.
No, new52 superman power level is not on the level of darksied or thanos level or above it.
Rebirth superman is now more powerful then new52 superman and rebirth superman is still middle level herald level.

In fact superman is not silver surfer or normal sentry level.
Some of you guys are just as bad as sentry,hulk and thor fans.
New52 and rebirth superman power level is lower then silver surfer and thor's for example.

His power level is not higher then a high herald level like worldbeaker hulk or silver surfer.

Superman power level is around shazam's level and you and others have taken the scan out of context just like some hardcore sentry and hulk fans do.

Superman power level was higher then the justice league members individual power levels vandal was taking but his power level was not higher then the combine powers of the justice league shazam,green lantern etc..
You and some here have misinterpreted that scan and it's crime.

By the way in new52 it was said in the future shazam would be more powerful then superman.
I can't find the scan but it was mention by someone in one of these types of forums.
I bet you have nothing to say about that.

i have said it before and ill say it again hal jordan is no match for supes.as long as supes remains in the DC universe he will be the strongest hero on earth

By the way reading one of the scans again vandal never said superman power level was higher then any of individual member power he was taking.
He just said superman was generating an insane amount of energy and he never gives up.

Vandal prize was really superman because he was obsessed with him the most.


There are heralds or other heralds level types just as fast or faster then superman by the way.

'Your power is so much less than Superman's'.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
'Your power is so much less than Superman's... April Fools!' You missed some words. I fixed it.

Keep in mind zod just lost to current hal jordan and with two sun's zod said his power equaled superman's.
Is hal jordan power level now higher then darkseid's too?

For the first page vandal was really talking about each individually superhero power levels that he captured from the justice league.

If vandal thinks superman power level is higher then justice league members he captured then vandal is wrong.
Certain Characters in-universe don't always tell the truth or facts just because a certain character says something in comics.

Hulk says he is strongest one there is but of course in marvel he is not.
See what i mean.
Common sense needs to used here.
It's impossible that new52 superman IS more powerful then them combined.
His power level is around rebirth superman's level and clearly rebirth superman is not on silver surfer or male thor level.

He could not even beat darkseid by himself in the new52.

It does not make sense since new52 and rebirth superman feats and the power level known about him is lower then silver surfer,darkseid and sentry and current marvel's now hyperion.


By the way i did not see all the justice league member in that scan or action comic issue 50 in issue 50 for example wonder woman look free to me and batman for example.

Anyway these fact below for certain justice league and past justice league members.
Billy Batson






Wonder Woman


New52 superman and rebirth superman power levels would be closer shazam and supergirl and current hal jordan from what i see so far.

New52 superman and rebirth superman are top tier superheroes and not above herald level.
Thier power level is lower then silver surfer,sentry and thor for example.


By the way alan scott from new52 earth 2 is more powerful then the supermen from earth 2 and new52 and rebirth superman.

Lol

Edited here.

Originally posted by mace11
Keep in mind zod just lost to current hal jordan and with two sun's zod said his power equaled superman's.
Is hal jordan power level now higher then darkseid's too?

For the first page vandal was really talking about each individually superhero power levels that he captured from the justice league.

If vandal thinks superman power level is higher then justice league members he captured then vandal is wrong.
Certain Characters in-universe don't always tell the truth or facts just because a certain character says something in comics.

Hulk says he is strongest one there is but of course in marvel he is not.
See what i mean.
Common sense needs to used here.
It's impossible that new52 superman IS more powerful then them combined.
His power level is around rebirth superman's level and clearly rebirth superman is not on silver surfer or male thor level.

He could not even beat darkseid by himself in the new52.

It does not make sense since new52 and rebirth superman feats and the power level known about him is lower then silver surfer,darkseid and sentry and current marvel's now hyperion.


By the way i did not see all the justice league member in that scan or action comic issue 50 in issue 50 for example wonder woman look free to me and batman for example.

Anyway these fact below for certain justice league and past justice league members.
Billy Batson






Wonder Woman


New52 superman and rebirth superman power levels would be closer shazam and supergirl and current hal jordan from what i see so far.

New52 superman and rebirth superman are top tier superheroes and not above herald level.
Thier power level is lower then silver surfer,sentry and thor for example.


By the way alan scott from new52 earth 2 is more powerful then the supermen from earth 2 and new52 and rebirth superman.
Superman is lower in power than Silver Surfer, Thor and Sentry?

Oh right, another comicvine poster. Just the luck.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman is lower in power than Silver Surfer, Thor and Sentry?

Oh right, another comicvine poster. Just the luck.



Yes he is lower in power then silver surfer,thor and sentry.

I don't post there that much because there is alot non-sense there just like here.
For example there is thread immortal hulk vs rebirth superman and unworthy thor.

Many said in the thread immortal hulk is beating both of them,in fact some take it further and said immortal hulk is beating the justice league team with superman on it.

See the insanity?
See the non-sense?

It's non-sense and it's incorrect.
Go to that thread in comicvine and see what mean for yourself.

Superman is not beating normal sentry or thor or worldbreaker hulk in a fair fight for example.

By the way i thought martian manhunter in new52 was fighting the whole justice league with superman on the team.
There are times writers would say martain manhunter is more powerful then superman.

Anyway i had a of enough this so i am leaving this thread.
Bye.

Originally posted by mace11
Yes he is lower in power then silver surfer,thor and sentry.

I don't post there that much because there is alot non-sense there just like here.
For example there is thread immortal hulk vs rebirth superman and unworthy thor.

Many said in the thread immortal hulk is beating both of them,in fact some take it further and said immortal hulk is beating the justice league team with superman on it.

See the insanity?
See the non-sense?

It's non-sense and it's incorrect.

Superman is not beating normal sentry or thor or worldbreaker hulk in a fair fight for example.

By the way i thought martian manhunter in new52 was fighting the whole justice league with superman on the team.
There are times writers would say martain manhunter is more powerful then superman.
And you're running with the same insanity.

Superman already defeated Thor in a comic published by both companies. Cyborg Superman already stalemated Silver Surfer.

But somehow Superman is less powerful than Thor or Silver Surfer.

GTFO and go post on comicvine with this nonsense.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And you're running with the same insanity.

Superman already defeated Thor in a comic published by both companies. Cyborg Superman already stalemated Silver Surfer.

But somehow Superman is less powerful than Thor or Silver Surfer.

GTFO and go post on comicvine with this nonsense.

Well cyborg superman was more powerful then superman in the post-crisis dc Universe from what i have seen so far,and that crossover was fan voting just like superpowered beat down.

Shazam has beaten superman in post-crisis universe as well.


Silver surfer lost to thor,gladiator lost to hulk,superman lost to supergirl on tv.
Spiderman beat firelord once,hulk has beaten thor sometimes.

Less powerful heroes were known to beat more powerful ones not at thier best for example.
Silver surfer is more powerful now then that time.

Even hulk has became stronger then he was in 80's.

Since things are taken out context in these type of forums and you mention silver sufer stalemating cyborg superman i will have to read that for myself since you mention it and see what the reason for that for that myself.

I am not taking your word for it.

I think i read it awhile ago by the way but i just don't remember the fight that clearly.

Anyway i got news for you,the cyborg superman of post-crisis and new52 is not beating or stalemating the current silver surfer.

As for new52 superman and rebirth superman,he is not on sentry's and silver surfer's level.
He would be closer to thor,but still thor is more powerful overall then new52 and rebirth superman.

Still i think post crisis cyborg superman was not as powerful as sliver sufer was in that crossover,but i plan to read or read it again.


This gets back to the topic to a point.
It looks like New52 and rebirth superman is not even on current hal jordan's level of power since zod said his power with two suns equals superman power level and hal jordan just beat zod him recently.




Another point in that crossover wonder woman was beaten by storm,lobo was beaten by wolverine and superboy lost to spiderman.
Keep that in mind.

Like i said there is non-sense here too,comicvine and even cbr in these battle forums.

This Mace guy is making alot of sense. Just like how he knew you couldn't put Sheev on trial. You might not agree with his methods, but it is for the good of everyone that he does it.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
This Mace guy is making alot of sense. Just like how he knew you couldn't put Sheev on trial. You might not agree with his methods, but it is for the good of everyone that he does it.

April Fools!

Edited/added reply above.

Anyway new52 superman and rebirth superman is not,and i repeat,not on silver surfer's level or sentry's level of power.
Both supermen in power are top tier superheroes of course but middle herald level in power.
There versions of superman are lower then thanos and darkseid as well.
In power level they are around shazam's level of power.
Those versions of superman just happen to be more experience,smarter and a better fighter then shazam but when it comes to strength they are around the same level.

Shazam has greater energy powers then superman by the way.

William Batson (Prime Earth)

lmao

Superman mid herald

Sure buddy. And Silver Surfer can create a miniature black hole inside the left hemisphere of any being

Originally posted by abhilegend
And you're running with the same insanity.

Superman already defeated Thor in a comic published by both companies. Cyborg Superman already stalemated Silver Surfer.

But somehow Superman is less powerful than Thor or Silver Surfer.

GTFO and go post on comicvine with this nonsense.

Well He does have a recent feat of him tanking the big bang.

Surfer surfing the big bang shown here

Also have other feats of powering a resort dwarfing countless planets, manipulating gravity of 2 planets

Haha

These "new" posters are pretty cool guys imo.

Yeah, the last guy sounds like the spokesman for the Dinobots.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
lmao

Superman mid herald

Sure buddy. And Silver Surfer can create a miniature black hole inside the left hemisphere of any being

Of course silver surfer can't create miniature black holes.

By the way i think new52 superman was mid-herld level,but rebirth superman is a combination of rebirth and post -crisis.

It's possible rebirth superman could have high herald level power but the lower part of that.

Thor as well or thor could be in middle part of a high herald.
Anyway thanos and darksied are higher then herald level types or top tier superheroes.

So far however i think thor and rebirth superman are middle herald in power.
Superboy prime would be in same tier as darksied and thanos,and pre-crisis superman from mid 80's would higher.
Skyfather level.
Pre-crisis superman would be alternate superman these days and he does not have the same power level as he did in 80's anyway.

This was posted a few years ago.
Herald is not used.
Cosmic level is mention instead.
There is another list i could find later.



chaosblazers-guide-to-power-levels-dc-and-marvel





https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/chaosblazers-guide-to-power-levels-dc-and-marvel-689145/


I think Juggernaut is Planetary by the way.

Here is another tier chart but this one is not from comicvine.



Tier Chart (Improved)

Power



The void - marvel
The void from marvel would be in Primary Superhuman tier not Cosmic Cube tier.

Red Hulk -marvel
I think reason red hulk was put in the Destroyer tier is because he got silver surfer powers combined with is own a number of years ago but red hulk's normal power level would be Secondary Superman.

Drax

I almost to post the link for that tier chart above.
Here it is.
Tier Chart (Improved)
http://tierrankings.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_Chart_%28Improved%29

I was suppose to come back to the drax part above at the end but i can't edited anymore,so i will post my view here.
Current Drax is not Primary Superhuman any more.

Great list. I didn't read any of it but I learned a lot. The person who made that must be the smartest guy on the internet

I clicked that link just to do a quick scroll and the first word I saw was "filmates"? Then 2 more times.

I was so sure of the list too. I'm not sure if being mates with Phil is a power level though.

Originally posted by mace11
Well cyborg superman was more powerful then superman in the post-crisis dc Universe from what i have seen so far,and that crossover was fan voting just like superpowered beat down.

Shazam has beaten superman in post-crisis universe as well.


Silver surfer lost to thor,gladiator lost to hulk,superman lost to supergirl on tv.
Spiderman beat firelord once,hulk has beaten thor sometimes.

Less powerful heroes were known to beat more powerful ones not at thier best for example.
Silver surfer is more powerful now then that time.

Even hulk has became stronger then he was in 80's.

Since things are taken out context in these type of forums and you mention silver sufer stalemating cyborg superman i will have to read that for myself since you mention it and see what the reason for that for that myself.

I am not taking your word for it.

I think i read it awhile ago by the way but i just don't remember the fight that clearly.

Anyway i got news for you,the cyborg superman of post-crisis and new52 is not beating or stalemating the current silver surfer.

As for new52 superman and rebirth superman,he is not on sentry's and silver surfer's level.
He would be closer to thor,but still thor is more powerful overall then new52 and rebirth superman.

Still i think post crisis cyborg superman was not as powerful as sliver sufer was in that crossover,but i plan to read or read it again.


This gets back to the topic to a point.
It looks like New52 and rebirth superman is not even on current hal jordan's level of power since zod said his power with two suns equals superman power level and hal jordan just beat zod him recently.




Another point in that crossover wonder woman was beaten by storm,lobo was beaten by wolverine and superboy lost to spiderman.
Keep that in mind.

Like i said there is non-sense here too,comicvine and even cbr in these battle forums.
Is this suppose to make sense or you're just trolling now?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is this suppose to make sense or you're just trolling now?

..so did you ignore the surfer feats I mentioned..?

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
..so did you ignore the surfer feats I mentioned..?
What feats? Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Well He does have a recent feat of him tanking the big bang.

Surfer surfing the big bang shown here

Also have other feats of powering a resort dwarfing countless planets, manipulating gravity of 2 planets
This? It's hardly taking a big bang considering there was no big bang and Surfer ended up in a void.

Yes, he powered up a planet momentarily and manipulated gravity to keep two planets balanced.

What's that supposed to mean in a fight?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is this suppose to make sense or you're just trolling now?

What i posted make sense to me and no,i am not trolling.

It seems some of you superman fanboys think new52 superman and rebirth superman is suppose to be on pre-crisis superman level or superboy's prime level.
He not.
Zod just said he is equal to superman in power now and hal just beat zod.
Zod herald level and so was hal.

Superman's Powers and Abilities

Marvel characters stronger than the hulk.


This below clearly say silver surfer is more powerful then superman.

Silver Surfer


This goes into more detail on what they mean who is stronger or more powerful.
https://www.cbr.com/marvel-characters-stronger-than-the-hulk/

Note-zarda or power princess of ultimate marvel is not as strong as hulk or ultimate hulk but i think she is more powerful.


Immortal hulk,wb hulk wwh are herald level and zarda of ultimate marvel would not be more powerful then these versions of hulk.

Originally posted by mace11
What i posted make sense to me and no,i am not trolling.

It seems some of you superman fanboys think new52 superman and rebirth superman is suppose to be on pre-crisis superman level or superboy's prime level.
He not.
Zod just said he is equal to superman in power now and hal just beat zod.
Zod herald level and so was hal.

If you are using transitive logic then Thor should be ranked higher than Surfer. Furthermore, Hulk should be ranked higher than both since he has beaten WHORINSON!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
If you are using transitive logic then Thor should be ranked higher than Surfer. Furthermore, Hulk should be ranked higher than both since he has beaten WHORINSON!

Read again.



Thor has beaten hulk more.
I guess spiderman should be herald level too since he has beaten firestorm or storm is more powerful then wonder woman since she lost in that crossover.

Of course spiderman is not herald level.


Anyway hulk is lower in overall power then thor and silver sufer.
Silver surfer is more powerful then thor and thor is more powerful then hulk.

Some do believe thor is more powerful then silver surfer by the way.
Certain versions of thor are.
Anyway normal thor is not but they are close in power but thor is lower in power overall then silver surfer.

Originally posted by mace11
What i posted make sense to me and no,i am not trolling.

It seems some of you superman fanboys think new52 superman and rebirth superman is suppose to be on pre-crisis superman level or superboy's prime level.
He not.
Zod just said he is equal to superman in power now and hal just beat zod.
Zod herald level and so was hal.
That's some circular logic.

Zod is Superman's equal and herald level? Hal is herald level?

Where did you get this? Is Superman supposed to be scaled by Zod or Hal? Originally posted by mace11
Superman's Powers and Abilities Originally posted by mace11
Marvel characters stronger than the hulk.


This below clearly say silver surfer is more powerful then superman.

Silver Surfer


This goes into more detail on what they mean who is stronger or more powerful.
https://www.cbr.com/marvel-characters-stronger-than-the-hulk/

Note-zarda or power princess of ultimate marvel is not as strong as hulk or ultimate hulk but i think she is more powerful.


Immortal hulk,wb hulk wwh are herald level and zarda of ultimate marvel would not be more powerful then these versions of hulk.
Well that's settled then. If you don't have anything and just going by what others said, do us a favor and shut up.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's some circular logic.

Zod is Superman's equal and herald level? Hal is herald level?

Where did you get this? Is Superman supposed to be scaled by Zod or Hal?
Well that's settled then. If you don't have anything and just going by what others said, do us a favor and shut up.

Zod said in the comics that he was equal to superman because of the two suns.
So the comics mention it not just someone on this forum,so you shut up.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
If you are using transitive logic then Thor should be ranked higher than Surfer. Furthermore, Hulk should be ranked higher than both since he has beaten WHORINSON!

Read again.



Thor has beaten hulk more.
I guess spiderman should be herald level too since he has beaten firestorm or storm is more powerful then wonder woman since she lost in that crossover.

Of course spiderman is not herald level.


Anyway hulk is lower in overall power then thor and silver sufer.
Silver surfer is more powerful then thor and thor is more powerful then hulk.

Some do believe thor is more powerful then silver surfer by the way.
Certain versions of thor are.
Anyway normal thor is not but they are close in power but thor is lower in power overall then silver surfer.

Thor is stronger then him however.
I will repeat thsi before i leave.
Blue marvel,silver surfer,hyperion,thor,icon and sentry are more powerful then Superman.

Anyway i had enough and i said what i had to say.
I will leave the thread.
BYE.

Originally posted by mace11
Read again.



Thor has beaten hulk more.
I guess spiderman should be herald level too since he has beaten firestorm or storm is more powerful then wonder woman since she lost in that crossover.

Of course spiderman is not herald level.


Anyway hulk is lower in overall power then thor and silver sufer.
Silver surfer is more powerful then thor and thor is more powerful then hulk.

Some do believe thor is more powerful then silver surfer by the way.
Certain versions of thor are.
Anyway normal thor is not but they are close in power but thor is lower in power overall then silver surfer.

You're either missing the point or being willfully obtuse.

You brought up Zod's statement and the fact Hal beat Zod in a rematch as a basis for ranking. If the logic works there why not for Surfer?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You're either missing the point or being willfully obtuse.

You brought up Zod's statement and the fact Hal beat Zod in a rematch as a basis for ranking. If the logic works there why not for Surfer?

Obtuse?
That's you, not me and no i am not missing the point but you are.
It's clear hulk is not on silver surfer's level and writers have mention it and just looking at the powers and abilities in thier bio if you read them combine with feats they have done in the comics.


By the way post crisis hal was herald level in power and hal before the power boost and fight with zod was mention to be herald level but when i think about it he may have not been but it looks like he is now.
Is really equal to zod or superman however?

It's hard to say clearly to tell you the truth but so far i think so,but i could always change my mind if there is couple of more battles and more feats from this current hal.
The point is i don't stick to the same point of view if new info comes up like some here do in these type of forums.

I edited/add some info above.



I posted this above but since i saw the latest reply to my post and replied one last time.

Now i am really leaving the thread.
Bye.

Originally posted by mace11
I edited/add some info above.



I posted this above but since i saw the latest reply to my post and replied one last time.

Now i am really leaving the thread.
Bye.
So in short, everyone is more powerful than Superman?

Is there someone who Superman can hope to beat IYO?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What feats?
This? It's hardly taking a big bang considering there was no big bang and Surfer ended up in a void.

Yes, he powered up a planet momentarily and manipulated gravity to keep two planets balanced.

What's that supposed to mean in a fight?

the ending and rebirth of a universe is called a what now?

It's called an expansion of soft pillows, cotton candy, and cool breezes.






Look it up.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
the ending and rebirth of a universe is called a what now?
Not an explosion as per the comic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not an explosion as per the comic.
What was it, an expansion?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
What was it, an expansion?
It wasn't an explosion.

Originally posted by mace11
Zod said in the comics that he was equal to superman because of the two suns.
So the comics mention it not just someone on this forum,so you shut up.

Zod specifically said two sons make him as powerful as Superman.

News to me.

Let's see the scans.

There was no matter energy expansion or explosion.

Surfer ended up in a void with the universe slowly forming around him after the device was split in half.

Big Bang
biɡ ˈbaNG/
nounAstronomy
noun: big bang; plural noun: big bangs; noun: Big Bang; plural noun: Big Bangs

the rapid expansion of matter from a state of extremely high density and temperature that according to current cosmological theories marked the origin of the universe.

Lol

Did you guys already have this argument ?
Or was it Philo?

Do u think he endured a big bang?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Big Bang
biɡ ˈbaNG/
nounAstronomy
noun: big bang; plural noun: big bangs; noun: Big Bang; plural noun: Big Bangs

the rapid expansion of matter from a state of extremely high density and temperature that according to current cosmological theories marked the origin of the universe.
Yeah well, nobody told Slott about it.

So you know, Thaal Sinestro and a bunch of weaponers beat Parallax Superman. It was Sinestro who put him out.

This proves powerful ring users could hurt Superman.

Maybe not for a majority, but he isn't just standing there tanking it.

Hal beat Zod and Cyborg Superman. Hal wins.

Originally posted by cdtm
Hal beat Zod and Cyborg Superman. Hal wins.

...and he cant Ko Superman who he believes is posessed by Parrallax

Superman is well above Zod and cyborg together in power and formidability.

Was that pre god of will? I forget.

But good point.

Originally posted by cdtm
Hal beat Zod and Cyborg Superman. Hal wins.
i remember hal didn't beat cyborg superman by himself,in GL last issue,hal need help from other lanterns.and zod i remember mostly he need his aides to battle superman.

I think you're remembering wrong. He didn't need the other Lanterns at all, they just assisted. Before the assist. Hal was stomping.

As for the fight, Hal destroy him.

Lanterns are weak against bricks.

Originally posted by carver9
I think you're remembering wrong. He didn't need the other Lanterns at all, they just assisted. Before the assist. Hal was stomping.
Originally posted by carver9
As for the fight, Hal destroy him.

Originally posted by carver9
I think you're remembering wrong. He didn't need the other Lanterns at all, they just assisted. Before the assist. Hal was stomping.
i'm read green lanterns 57 again,i think cyborg superman is stomping hal,not hal stomping cyborg.this fight,hal initially attack is while cyborg superman not fighting back,and when cyborg superman think hal is no match for him,cyborg superman later attack make hal even not have chance to fighting,only negative defense until keeping cyborg busy and let him not noticed other lanterns arriving(though this fight cyborg superman have phatom ring)

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c6l-yxu9UwM/W8cibe0Fy3I/AAAAAAAAGrY/IIkb6KZ_bgsWuluZ1d7l6UxN77pIayuUwCHMYCw/s0/RCO007.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hKnL3bIOTBs/W8cicPRCp9I/AAAAAAAAGrg/S932oyZq4Kc7c2nuw6RiKGaMgXtMvBaLACHMYCw/s0/RCO008.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-m4yFwuJ3Z74/W8ciep994yI/AAAAAAAAGsM/MMryOPDpFuwmhNHqN07taP1Mi3lIGA_ygCHMYCw/s0/RCO012.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nHlDQ9QF52E/W8cifJgtsiI/AAAAAAAAGsU/2WgT1IQI4Ys_HxoRBbtztjcveVGvPCpCwCHMYCw/s0/RCO013.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-37YUmfYeOLk/W8cifufquuI/AAAAAAAAGsg/-7kUewdCZn0VupfyHgaM1c6OpHcDCSSbACHMYCw/s0/RCO014.jpg
and in green lantern volume 4,hal and cyborg superman fightingi perspective is a very close fighting,cyborg and hal both have major jnjuries,you can see in last scan,cyborg superman though been damaged,but due to his robotic body function,so he could have a little advantage in this battle
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-38ai7sfCecc/Vm73BblvIcI/AAAAAAAANrg/Dr5qCFr4zIM/s0-Ic42/RCO006.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E_cfdU6EFLw/Vm73BrsJOiI/AAAAAAAANrg/TZXo-73TYnM/s0-Ic42/RCO007.jpg https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d-y9JdvdfQY/Vm73BwRLV2I/AAAAAAAANrg/shQcfGYX8Ks/s0-Ic42/RCO008.jpg https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-juwozDKDBWo/Vm73CBsz0_I/AAAAAAAANrg/s0NrI9tHHIE/s0-Ic42/RCO009.jpg

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
i'm read green lanterns 57 again,i think cyborg superman is stomping hal,not hal stomping cyborg.this fight,hal initially attack is while cyborg superman not fighting back,and when cyborg superman think hal is no match for him,cyborg superman later attack make hal even not have chance to fighting,only negative defense until keeping cyborg busy and let him not noticed other lanterns arriving(though this fight cyborg superman have phatom ring)

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c6l-yxu9UwM/W8cibe0Fy3I/AAAAAAAAGrY/IIkb6KZ_bgsWuluZ1d7l6UxN77pIayuUwCHMYCw/s0/RCO007.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hKnL3bIOTBs/W8cicPRCp9I/AAAAAAAAGrg/S932oyZq4Kc7c2nuw6RiKGaMgXtMvBaLACHMYCw/s0/RCO008.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-m4yFwuJ3Z74/W8ciep994yI/AAAAAAAAGsM/MMryOPDpFuwmhNHqN07taP1Mi3lIGA_ygCHMYCw/s0/RCO012.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nHlDQ9QF52E/W8cifJgtsiI/AAAAAAAAGsU/2WgT1IQI4Ys_HxoRBbtztjcveVGvPCpCwCHMYCw/s0/RCO013.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-37YUmfYeOLk/W8cifufquuI/AAAAAAAAGsg/-7kUewdCZn0VupfyHgaM1c6OpHcDCSSbACHMYCw/s0/RCO014.jpg

Where did you get he LET him attack him? Are you making up stuff again. Also he shielded himself from Hal attacks. Also, that isn't your normal Cyborg either; he is in possession of a ring. No one won this fight. It was a stalemate. He did nothing to Hal and the same is said for Cyborg.

Originally posted by carver9
Where did you get he LET him attack him? Are you making up stuff again. Also he shielded himself from Hal attacks. Also, that isn't your normal Cyborg either; he is in possession of a ring. No one won this fight. It was a stalemate. He did nothing to Hal and the same is said for Cyborg.
because cyborg first not fighting back,and when hal attacks a while,cyborg superman said"jordan,if that's best you can do,you have no prayer"then beginning fighting back,and in first scan,jordan attack cybog jaw,and cyborg ignoring him.i know this isn't cyborg superman standard gear,and i mentioned it,but in rebirth,i read cyborg vs hal only happens in this issue.so essentially this fight not hal beat cyborg,this is my point.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
because cyborg first not fighting back,and when hal attacks a while,cyborg superman said"jordan,if that's best you can do,you have no prayer"then beginning fighting back,and in first scan,jordan attack cybog jaw,and cyborg ignoring him.i know this isn't cyborg superman standard gear,and i mentioned it,but in rebirth,i read cyborg vs hal only happens in this issue.so essentially this fight not hal beat cyborg,this is my point.

He couldnt attack because he was being attacked. He then shields himself so that he can counter Hal attack. Yes, he does fight back while talking junk (something that he routinely does) and he still couldnt damage or do anything to Hal. It was a stalemate and that sad if you think about it because Cyborg Superman was extremely amped here.

Originally posted by carver9
He couldnt attack because he was being attacked. He then shields himself so that he can counter Hal attack. Yes, he does fight back while talking junk (something that he routinely does) and he still couldnt damage or do anything to Hal. It was a stalemate and that sad if you think about it because Cyborg Superman was extremely amped here.
my point just hal not beat cyborg superman,and them fight i think green lantern volume 4 is a proper example,hal and cyborg superman fighting could go either way.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
my point just hal not beat cyborg superman,and them fight i think green lantern volume 4 is a proper example,hal and cyborg superman fighting could go either way.

And you're basing this off of normal Hal vs an amped Cyborg Superman? I think at standard powerlevels, Hal will treat Cyborg worse than what he did to Zod.

Originally posted by carver9
And you're basing this off of normal Hal vs an amped Cyborg Superman? I think at standard powerlevels, Hal will treat Cyborg worse than what he did to Zod.
well,because in rebirth them fight only in this issue,and hal beat zod is in rebirth,so i thought is talk about rebirth series(and even not rebirth,hal in post-crisis still not beat cyborg superman).in standard powerlevels,i think hal and cyborg superman fighting in green lantern v4 13 has been showed that cyborg and hal both have possibility to win is a most likely answer

Hal has the power to occasionally spike up to Superman's level for short periods. Depending on the circumstances, he could put him down, sure, but more often than not, Superman that's not holding himself back is going to far too much.

.. and Superman currently is confirmed at 2x Elite Kryptonians at standard level. Standard Kryptonians are at least Count Nefaria level if we use accurate scaling and averaging of relative portrayals over time.

Overall Rebirth Superman and Hal are both Above Top Tier to Skyfather level in range.

Originally posted by Juntai
Hal has the power to occasionally spike up to Superman's level for short periods. Depending on the circumstances, he could put him down, sure, but more often than not, Superman that's not holding himself back is going to far too much.

Hal can get much, much higher than Superman. Look what he did to Zero Hour Parallax.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Hal can get much, much higher than Superman. Look what he did to Zero Hour Parallax.

..and failed to do to Superman.

Hal doesn't go all out on his team members. Zero Hour parallax was an exception, as was Sinestrollax. My point is that he can at will.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
Hal doesn't go all out on his team members. Zero Hour parallax was an exception, as was Sinestrollax. My point is that he can at will.

He thought Superman wasn't Superman, though.

Some villain, I forget who, but Hal had no reason to hold back.

Parrallax. The last being in the universe he would hold back against.

He succeeded against Parrallax. Failed against Superman when he thought he was fighting Parrallax. Pretty clear.

Originally posted by cdtm
He thought Superman wasn't Superman, though.

Some villain, I forget who, but Hal had no reason to hold back.

During the God of will era, Hal didn't always amp himself up. Only when he needed to, or in the case of Parallax.