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Pure mix brawl with all powers on display, no but.

superman once again takes this he could comfortably lift 200quintillion tons(if we give him benefit of the doubt he would be able to lift 400quintillion tons with both hands)+that wasnt his limit but the limit of what was used to calculate his lift.If i remember correctly he could move at 13.7billion times FTL.He also had some electric aura which could be used offensivly and defensively,meh hulk aint going nowhere

Hulk FTW. He’s the strongest one there is.

Originally posted by $on OF krypton
superman once again takes this he could comfortably lift 200quintillion tons(if we give him benefit of the doubt he would be able to lift 400quintillion tons with both hands)+that wasnt his limit but the limit of what was used to calculate his lift.If i remember correctly he could move at 13.7billion times FTL.He also had some electric aura which could be used offensivly and defensively,meh hulk aint going nowhere

You don't think Hulk could lift that much?

Originally posted by carver9
You don't think Hulk could lift that much? I know your question was addressed to SOK but take this in consideration, it would likely take Hulk a very long time to reach that level of strength to lift that kind of weight, and remember that wasn't even AS Supes limit and he can easily end the fight before IH reaches that level.

Originally posted by carver9
You don't think Hulk could lift that much?

I dont think so.as i said before it wasnt actually his limit he said he could lift even more.And i dont see how hulk deals with supes speed(the earth weighs above 6sextillion at least. supes couldve lifted 400quinti.. tons and a 1000 quintillion=1sextillion meaning he possibly could lift halfof a sextillion AND MAYBE EVEN MORE question is can hulk lift up to 200quintillion at his base?

These are comic book characters, not KMC forum characters. The comics are whwre they reside. Something shown 99% of the time in the comics is not PIS. Its normal.

Originally posted by carver9
You don't think Hulk could lift that much?

Of course he can. He matches Hyperion who holds two universes apart.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Of course he can. He matches Hyperion who holds two universes apart.

like seriously? the same hyperion who oneshotted him? or his twin.Plus i think the holding two universes apart thing is just PIS(EMPHASIS ON I THINK)

Originally posted by lawest9
I know your question was addressed to SOK but take this in consideration, it would likely take Hulk a very long time to reach that level of strength to lift that kind of weight, and remember that wasn't even AS Supes limit and he can easily end the fight before IH reaches that level.

Lol... why? In trying to figure out why you think this.

Originally posted by $on OF krypton
like seriously? the same hyperion who oneshotted him? or his twin.Plus i think the holding two universes apart thing is just PIS(EMPHASIS ON I THINK)

When did Hyperion one shot him? Did you even read the comic? Why are people blind and only see what they want to see. Anyways, it was outright said that Hulk is stronger than Hyperion and everyone else on the Avengers.

Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... why? In trying to figure out why you think this. simple common sense sir, no version of the Hulk base level strength starts out that high, but I'm sure he can become strong enough over a period of time rage to do so.

Originally posted by carver9
When did Hyperion one shot him? Did you even read the comic? Why are people blind and only see what they want to see. Anyways, it was outright said that Hulk is stronger than Hyperion and everyone else on the Avengers. Not everyone's opinion necessarily translate into fact.

Originally posted by lawest9
simple common sense sir, no version of the Hulk base level strength starts out that high, but I'm sure he can become strong enough over a period of time rage to do so.

Educate me. What is Hulk base level of strength?

Originally posted by lawest9
Not everyone's opinion necessarily translate into fact.

Ok, so what about the writer? The person who created Hyperion. If he said Hulk is stronger, does this qualify as facts?

Originally posted by carver9
Educate me. What is Hulk base level of strength? Depends on the version, what is a base level strength feat for say.......world breaker Hulk or the current Immortal Hulk? are either as strong as Ndcu's Superman who bench pressed earth weight for three straigth days while being deprived of sunlight?

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, so what about the writer? The person who created Hyperion. If he said Hulk is stronger, does this qualify as facts? If the writer himself states so then yes, but as mirrored in real life, people debate who could've beaten who in a boxing match had they fought or who was the all time greatest athlete in their prospective sports, same with superheroes.

Originally posted by lawest9
Depends on the version, what is a base level strength feat for say.......world breaker Hulk or the current Immortal Hulk? are either as strong as Ndcu's Superman who bench pressed earth weight for three straigth days while being deprived of sunlight?

You're the one that said Hulk base cant lift something, so I need you to provide something explaining or showing this before I page dump scans on you showing you the opposite. So, what's the max Hulk can lift at base (does he even have a base)?

Originally posted by lawest9
If the writer himself states so then yes, but as mirrored in real life, people debate who could've beaten who in a boxing match had they fought or who was the all time greatest athlete in their prospective sports, same with superheroes.

Ok, well, Hickman, the one who brought this version of Hyperion into existence said that Hulk is stronger than him. He also said that Hulk is the strongest Avenger.

Originally posted by carver9
You're the one that said Hulk base cant lift something, so I need you to provide something explaining or showing this before I page dump scans on you showing you the opposite. So, what's the max Hulk can lift at base (does he even have a base)? Feel free to dump all the scans that you will and lets see what it proves.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, well, Hickman, the one who brought this version of Hyperion into existence said that Hulk is stronger than him. He also said that Hulk is the strongest Avenger. And he may well be, but not stronger than AS Dupes however.

Originally posted by lawest9
Feel free to dump all the scans that you will and lets see what it proves.

Before I scan dump, I'm asking you, what level is his base?

Originally posted by carver9
Before I scan dump, I'm asking you, what level is his base?

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk base level is High Herald.

There you go.

Carver, I know you're just itching to scan vomit all over this thread.

Just remember, per your own words, base Hulk is HH. Post whatever writer interviews you want, scans, fanart, it doesn't matter.

You have already answered your own question.

Originally posted by carver9
Before I scan dump, I'm asking you, what level is his base? His base level is high herald but does it still equal Supermans?

Originally posted by lawest9
His base level is high herald but does it still equal Supermans?

Prob not All-Star, who was explicitly meant to be above 'normal' Supes....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver, I know you're just itching to scan vomit all over this thread.

Just remember, per your own words, base Hulk is HH. Post whatever writer interviews you want, scans, fanart, it doesn't matter.

You have already answered your own question.

I'm good with that answer. That's what I was going to say from the start. Dark, youre always on point. I don't know if you save my posts or what, but I have to watch what I say around you.

Originally posted by lawest9
His base level is high herald but does it still equal Supermans?

Don't see High Heralds randomly punching objects that towers continents across space with a single hit. Do you? Also, Grey Hulk pales in comparison to his green counterpart and he tossed a pyramid as if it was a baseball. That would be a high showing for Captain Marvel and Black Adam and Hulk at his weakest achieved this.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Prob not All-Star, who was explicitly meant to be above 'normal' Supes.... And "normal" Superman again bench pressed the weight of the earth for several days without life giving sunlight. Thank you.

Originally posted by lawest9
And "normal" Superman again bench pressed the weight of the earth for several days without life giving sunlight. Thank you.

Ok, I brought up those showings because you're making it appear as if Hulk isn't strong during the onset of his strength. Normal Hulk powered through planetary attacks as if it was nothing. Average Hulk stood up with the weight of a sun on his back. Average Hulk strength nearly overpowered an abstract that was controlling an IG user and the Phoenix Force. Like, is planetary showings the best thing you can throw out?

Originally posted by carver9
Don't see High Heralds randomly punching objects that towers continents across space with a single hit. Do you? Also, Grey Hulk pales in comparison to his green counterpart and he tossed a pyramid as if it was a baseball. That would be a high showing for Captain Marvel and Black Adam and Hulk at his weakest achieved this. Do they blow whole solar systems away with just a sneeze? Tossing a pyramid into space is still not like the bench pressing earth feat or even towing 1/3 of the earth.

Originally posted by carver9
Don't see High Heralds randomly punching objects that towers continents across space with a single hit. Do you? Also, Grey Hulk pales in comparison to his green counterpart and he tossed a pyramid as if it was a baseball. That would be a high showing for Captain Marvel and Black Adam and Hulk at his weakest achieved this.

Erm, a high showing for Black Adam is hitting harder than the asteroid that killed Bada's people:

http://i.imgur.com/3jVv0Zx.jpg

That's an asteroid 6 miles in diameter.

THAT's a high showing. Pyramid tossing is...meh.

Oh, I'm sure you will just jump back in and start posting scans to say 'well, Hulk also does this! And this! And this!'

But my point here is.....that pyramid tossing is NOT a high showing for BA.

Originally posted by lawest9
Do they blow whole solar systems away with just a sneeze? Tossing a pyramid into space is still not like the bench pressing earth feat or even towing 1/3 of the earth.

So now you're bringing up Pre Crisis Superman. Stay on track.

I'm not even talking about the Pyramid anymore because you're debating style is confusing me. Can you stay on track please.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I brought up those showings because you're making it appear as if Hulk isn't strong during the onset of his strength. Normal Hulk powered through planetary attacks as if it was nothing. Average Hulk stood up with the weight of a sun on his back. Average Hulk strength nearly overpowered an abstract that was controlling an IG user and the Phoenix Force. Like, is planetary showings the best thing you can throw out? I think you're cherry picking your own feats and exaggerating them.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm, a high showing for Black Adam is hitting harder than the asteroid that killed Bada's people:

http://i.imgur.com/3jVv0Zx.jpg

That's an asteroid 6 miles in diameter.

THAT's a high showing. Pyramid tossing is...meh.

Oh, I'm sure you will just jump back in and start posting scans to say 'well, Hulk also does this! And this! And this!'

But my point here is.....that pyramid tossing is NOT a high showing for BA.

Forgot about this showing. Good find.

Originally posted by lawest9
I think you're cherry picking your own feats and exaggerating them.

Which ft am I exaggerating?

Originally posted by carver9
So now you're bringing up Pre Crisis Superman. Stay on track.

I'm not even talking about the Pyramid anymore because you're debating style is confusing me. Can you stay on track please. Only if you do the same, so it's all so well for you to quote different versions of Hulk but I can't quote different version of Superman, right?

Originally posted by lawest9
Only if you do the same, so it's all so well for you to quote different versions of Hulk but I can't quote different version of Superman, right?

Ok, I can post this version of Hulk then. This version of Hulk stood in one spot and tanked hits from Hercules (who hurt his hand punching Hulk) and Jane Thor. In regards to this, Hercules IS elite in strength and Jane has taken on and defeated Mangog (while punching his teeth out) and Mangog was said to be more powerful than even the Phoenix force. And again, she couldn't budge Hulk. Hell, Hulk brushed her and Herc off just by flexing his muscles.

Originally posted by carver9
Which ft am I exaggerating? Knowing your Hulk fanboy fetishism probably almost every feat you have mentioned, as you were just reminded of a scan pertaining to BA I think your memories of Hulks feats are selective as well.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
After the atmosphere has slowed a 100 metre wide asteroid to 90k mph,Nova and Thor slow it down a lot, and Wasp has shrunk it down using Pym Particles...

Herc and Hulk, together, are unable to stop or break the asteroid.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Jd46ZjYRo4M/WdWKKehbeSI/AAAAAAAAPek/ShXPItvSjpk0kChzEi0fy-wIiejysR9NQCHMYCw/s1600/RCO016.jpeg

Who can replicate this feat of failure??

Herc and Jane Thor are NOT elites in strength when they are written in the Avengers....

And KAL el took multiple shoots from Hulk without once flinching allowing him to tire himself out.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Herc and Jane Thor are NOT elites in strength when they are written in the Avengers....

So one showing takes away from this? Also, is that the same writer that wrote Immortal Hulk?

Originally posted by lawest9
And KAL el took multiple shoots from Hulk without once flinching allowing him to tire himself out.

And got flash koed by Hulk in the same book... a FAR weaker Hulk.

That's like me posting this...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3710590-0443358703-24534.jpg

You will then not accept it.

So I am not accused of misleading:

This is the size of the asteroid. It is 100 metres in diameter:
https://s9.postimg.org/buwwlsycf/RCO009_w.jpg

The heroes say it can destroy the entire Western Hemisphere. Here, the Avengers say it would cause an extinction level event:
https://s9.postimg.org/buwwlvqnj/RCO010.jpg

So the stakes are high. They aren't holding back - this asteroid could wipe out 616 Marvel Earth.

First, the atmosphere slows it down, a bunch.

Then, Thor and Nova step up:
https://s9.postimg.org/f1rg5hg8f/RCO012.jpg

Spidermen use their tensile webbing (which has held the Hulk!):
https://s9.postimg.org/w2ace60zj/RCO013.jpg

Wasp shrinks it down even further:
https://s9.postimg.org/t8770p3y7/RCO014.jpg

Vision (amped, right?) uses his solar blast:
https://s9.postimg.org/9dl5el467/RCO015.jpg

AND THEN! Herc and Hulk try.
https://s9.postimg.org/dzh9mycun/RCO016.jpg

And fail.

Originally posted by carver9
So one showing takes away from this? Also, is that the same writer that wrote Immortal Hulk?

Not sure what your point is. Aaron didn't write Immortal Hulk, yet you seem perfectly happy to use his statements with Mangog and the Phoenix....

Originally posted by carver9
And got flash koed by Hulk in the same book... a FAR weaker Hulk. Hun hun........points of references here 1) He wasn't ko'ed but caught off guard as he immediately came right back to save Spider-man's hide. 2) that version of Hulk wasn't that much weaker if at all. 3) the only thing that Superman did offensively against Hulk was toss him into a building, suppose he went as ballistic on him as Hulk did on Clark?........ You know that you would've just had one big green smear on the streets.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So I am not accused of misleading:

This is the size of the asteroid. It is 100 metres in diameter:
https://s9.postimg.org/buwwlsycf/RCO009_w.jpg

The heroes say it can destroy the entire Western Hemisphere. Here, the Avengers say it would cause an extinction level event:
https://s9.postimg.org/buwwlvqnj/RCO010.jpg

So the stakes are high. They aren't holding back - this asteroid could wipe out 616 Marvel Earth.

First, the atmosphere slows it down, a bunch.

Then, Thor and Nova step up:
https://s9.postimg.org/f1rg5hg8f/RCO012.jpg

Spidermen use their tensile webbing (which has held the Hulk!):
https://s9.postimg.org/w2ace60zj/RCO013.jpg

Wasp shrinks it down even further:
https://s9.postimg.org/t8770p3y7/RCO014.jpg

Vision (amped, right?) uses his solar blast:
https://s9.postimg.org/9dl5el467/RCO015.jpg

AND THEN! Herc and Hulk try.
https://s9.postimg.org/dzh9mycun/RCO016.jpg

And fail.



Not sure what your point is. Aaron didn't write Immortal Hulk, yet you seem perfectly happy to use his statements with Mangog and the Phoenix....

You cant use one showing to gauge a characters power level is what I am saying. Jane is an elite, no debating against this. You're using a single showing to try to discredit this. Lol... we will always bump heads on this because I don't use one showing to prove a character is weak or strong. With that said. Herc, Cho, AND Jane is elite, top elite, in strength.

Originally posted by lawest9
Hun hun........points of references here 1) He wasn't ko'ed but caught off guard as he immediately came right back to save Spider-man's hide. 2) that version of Hulk wasn't that much weaker if at all. 3) the only thing that Superman did offensively against Hulk was toss him into a building, suppose he went as ballistic on him as Hulk did on Clark?........ You know that you would've just had one big green smear on the streets.

His body went limp after that punch. It's a flash ko a d lol, hulk has had over 8 powerups. Everyone on KMC knows Hulk kant at his classic level of power anymore.

Originally posted by carver9
That's like me posting this...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3710590-0443358703-24534.jpg

You will then not accept it. I never said that Hulk couldn't give KAL a tough fight, but he did underestimate Hulks strength there, but that was the first time he encountered Bruce, also don't forget that later in that same book how he was handing the Hulk his tail and thought to himself how he had to be careful about letting loose full strength on Hulk, and this was a much weaker version of Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
His body went limp after that punch. It's a flash ko a d lol, hulk has had over 8 powerups. Everyone on KMC knows Hulk kant at his classic level of power anymore. C9...........Superman have had his power ups as well, and remember Julius Swartz depowered Clark long before John Byrne did and has defeated Hulk in every crossover since that time and has had superior feats on top of it.

Originally posted by carver9
You cant use one showing to gauge a characters power level is what I am saying. Jane is an elite, no debating against this. You're using a single showing to try to discredit this. Lol... we will always bump heads on this because I don't use one showing to prove a character is weak or strong. With that said. Herc, Cho, AND Jane is elite, top elite, in strength.

My point is that in team books, Herc, Cho and Jane aren't depicted as 'Mangog (who is greater than Phoenix) busting levels'.

You're using this exact argument with Lobo and Green Lantern, i.e. with DC. Which is a fair point, but you never seem to be consistent in your position.

I'm NOT using single showings. In team books, Jane/Herc/Cho aren't at the levels Jane is in her title book, where she fights Phoenixes and Shi Ar God's.

Therefore, in a team book, you can't suddenly change your stance and start power scaling off Jane's solo titles.

That's my point. Which is the same point you make with Lobo and GL.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point is that in team books, Herc, Cho and Jane aren't depicted as 'Mangog (who is greater than Phoenix) busting levels'.

You're using this exact argument with Lobo and Green Lantern, i.e. with DC. Which is a fair point, but you never seem to be consistent in your position.

I'm NOT using single showings. In team books, Jane/Herc/Cho aren't at the levels Jane is in her title book, where she fights Phoenixes and Shi Ar God's.

Therefore, in a team book, you can't suddenly change your stance and start power scaling off Jane's solo titles.

That's my point. Which is the same point you make with Lobo and GL. And you make a good point, before COIE, Superman was never portrayed to be as powerful in the JLA books as he was in his own titles.

Originally posted by lawest9
And you make a good point, before COIE, Superman was never portrayed to be as powerful in the JLA books as he was in his own titles.

Darksaint still use JLA showings in his arguments though. I understand why he is trying to flip it here. At the end of the day, Hulk powered through some elites. It Supermen would've did what Hulk did to the JLA, he would've been all over it. Not paying him any attention.

Kinda siding with Saint here. IMO team portrayals should be looked at differently because generally teams fight like idiots or are written down to make spiderman/wasp notable when you also have a hulk and a thor.

Originally posted by carver9
Darksaint still use JLA showings in his arguments though. I understand why he is trying to flip it here. At the end of the day, Hulk powered through some elites. It Supermen would've did what Hulk did to the JLA, he would've been all over it. Not paying him any attention. Did you know Darksaint is an anagram of "a stinkard"? It's also one of "Dirk Satan".

His tactics make more sense now, don't they?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Kinda siding with Saint here. IMO team portrayals should be looked at differently because generally teams fight like idiots or are written down to make spiderman/wasp notable when you also have a hulk and a thor. That could be considered merely as getting in one another's way.

Originally posted by lawest9
That could be considered merely as getting in one another's way.

Maybe. when fighting a big bad like darkseid in a climatic battle teams do well but against a rogue hero not so much.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Maybe. when fighting a big bad like darkseid in a climatic battle teams do well but against a rogue hero not so much. Yea.......Clark physically defeated DS one on one but couldn't do so with the help of the entire JLA behind him, crazy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Herc and Jane Thor are NOT elites in strength when they are written in the Avengers....

I never understood this logic....

The team guns were down scaled to justify the other members, it happens on EVERY team. It doesn't mean they aren't elites. They are simply more grounded.

Not everyone is Hickman, where they deal with saving the Multiverse.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Kinda siding with Saint here. IMO team portrayals should be looked at differently because generally teams fight like idiots or are written down to make spiderman/wasp notable when you also have a hulk and a thor.

Of course you would side with Saint. I wonder why all of a sudden you all decided to use this type of debating tactic.

Originally posted by lawest9
Yea.......Clark physically defeated DS one on one but couldn't do so with the help of the entire JLA behind him, crazy.

When did Clark defeat Darkseid (cant wait for you to say whatever showing I think you are going to mention)?

Originally posted by carver9
When did Clark defeat Darkseid (cant wait for you to say whatever showing I think you are going to mention)? It was a one shot issue where he physically defeated him several years ago, surprised you are not up on your P's and Q's.

Originally posted by lawest9
It was a one shot issue where he physically defeated him several years ago, surprised you are not up on your P's and Q's.

Scan please.

Don't have scanning access on this phone right now, but I'm sure you know what I'm referring to, game over.

Originally posted by carver9
Of course you would side with Saint. I wonder why all of a sudden you all decided to use this type of debating tactic.

well he makes sense amd you dont soooo...? its like a comics 101. id put more stock in hulk beating thor one on one than as part of an ensemble

Anybody heard of hyperion paradise x?


Originally posted by lawest9
And he may well be, but not stronger than AS Dupes however.







Hyperion is stronger then all star superman,post-crisis superman, new52 superman, and rebirth superman.


Marcus Milton (Earth-13034)
Strength level









By the way when hickmen meant hulk he could have been talking about world war hulk or the worldbreaker version.

Anyway i think hyperion is stronger then savage hulk and the doc hulk version and may equal or surpass wwh.

It's the worldbreaker hulk version i think could be stronger then hyperion but if the normal hulk is stronger then hyperion,then so be it.
Normal hulk himself has been getting much stronger over the years any way but i think he stronger then savage hulk.


Hey look who is the new dc version of hulk by the way.
Wonder Woman Believes DC's Damage is Stronger Than Superman.

https://www.cbr.com/dc-comics-damage-stronger-than-superman/

As for the hulk.
15 Marvel Characters Stronger Than The Hulk | Screen Rant



Here some from the list.
I am not posting all but you could check out the rest below in the link.

The Silver Surfer



Gladiator





Captain Universe




To read more go here.
https://screenrant.com/marvel-characters-stronger-more-powerful-than-the-hulk/

Deleted reply.

5 Heroes Stronger Than HULK And THOR That The MCU Should Introduce


HYPERION

To read more go here.
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/thor/5-heroes-stronger-than-hulk-and-thor-that-the-mcu-should-introduce-a142704

Hulk kills him. Very easily.

Add/edited info above.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Hulk kills Kratos. Very easily.

I agree!

You are reading: Puny Banner: 15 Characters Stronger Than The Hulk That Marvel Is Holding Back

I will post some,for the rest open link below.

You are reading: Puny Banner: 15 Characters Stronger Than The Hulk That Marvel Is Holding Back

I will post some,for the rest open link below.

A lot of those characters you're listing isn't stronger than Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of those characters you're listing isn't stronger than Hulk. Are any of them?

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of those characters you're listing isn't stronger than Hulk.

Who are you to argue with Mace?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Who are you to argue with Mace?

His follower.

Originally posted by carver9
His follower.

First Quan now this.

HAVE YOU NO SHAME!!!

Hulks smashes AS Supes.

Blue Marvel: Does Science Prove That He Is Stronger Than The Hulk?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t117ngASQPQ


I don't think Silver Surfer is stronger then hulk because he is not as strong as thor,but he is more powerful then hulk and thor.

Few of the others in 15 Characters Stronger Than The Hulk That Marvel Is Holding Back list is not either but they are more powerful then hulk.
I am not sure about some others as well on the list like GLADIATOR FOR EXAMPLE, but i will list the ones i know who are stronger then the hulk below.
Then i will leave.I did not plan to open this thread in the first place.

I would say these superheroes below are stronger then hulk.


Blue Marvel
Sentry
Hyperion
Sun god



For the others like GLADIATOR i need to do more research to be more sure.
Power princess from the ultimate marvel universe however is not stronger then hulk but she is more powerful then ultimate hulk and i think 616 hulk as well.


Now other versions of hulk?

I would say blue marvel is stronger then worldbreaker hulk.
Hyperion i think equals world war hulk in strength.
Sentry equals worldbreaker hulk.

Anyway i need to stop debating this stuff online.
When i come to these types of forums my mind is made up anyway.
That's it from me.
Bye.

Originally posted by Badabing
Hulks smashes AS Supes.

HULK GETS SMASHED JUST LIKE YOU SCALEBAGS BENEATH ASTEROIDS!!

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Herc and Jane Thor are NOT elites in strength when they are written in the Avengers....
Sure they are. There's the occasional low showings, but they tend to be looked at as go to's for the most part. And team books tend to emphasize on team, so they tend to move away from the showcasing of the heavier hitters.

Being elite doesn't mean you have to blow up a planet or manhandle trans tiers every other issue.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
HULK GETS SMASHED JUST LIKE YOU SCALEBAGS BENEATH ASTEROIDS!! Hulk flexes and Supes gets sent into Uranus.

Originally posted by Badabing
Hulk flexes and Supes gets sent into Uranus.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/slow-lol-zoom.gif

Originally posted by mace11
Blue Marvel: Does Science Prove That He Is Stronger Than The Hulk?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t117ngASQPQ


I don't think Silver Surfer is stronger then hulk because he is not as strong as thor,but he is more powerful then hulk and thor.

Few of the others in 15 Characters Stronger Than The Hulk That Marvel Is Holding Back list is not either but they are more powerful then hulk.
I am not sure about some others as well on the list like GLADIATOR FOR EXAMPLE, but i will list the ones i know who are stronger then the hulk below.
Then i will leave.I did not plan to open this thread in the first place.

I would say these superheroes below are stronger then hulk.


Blue Marvel
Sentry
Hyperion
Sun god



For the others like GLADIATOR i need to do more research to be more sure.
Power princess from the ultimate marvel universe however is not stronger then hulk but she is more powerful then ultimate hulk and i think 616 hulk as well.


Now other versions of hulk?

I would say blue marvel is stronger then worldbreaker hulk.
Hyperion i think equals world war hulk in strength.
Sentry equals worldbreaker hulk.

Anyway i need to stop debating this stuff online.
When i come to these types of forums my mind is made up anyway.
That's it from me.
Bye.

You are crazy.

Originally posted by Badabing
Hulk flexes and Supes gets sent into Uranus.

SUPERMAN SMASHES BANNER AND DINO TRASH ALIKE!!!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wi4azG8cUP8/VZxI1plkqjI/AAAAAAAAU3c/5xFoKcGb_z0/s1600/SUPERMAN004_30b.JPG

http://i.imgur.com/gO67fhA.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dkAi_pD0G18/TYNBJBR1_NI/AAAAAAAAC4E/nqHba9t7fAw/s320/WF282-Dinosaur_1.jpg

http://i.pinimg.com/736x/bf/0a/68/bf0a682773aba580f6eed3c5fbf062eb.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
You are crazy. He's not crazy, he's blunt, battle hardened, and ready to bludgeon.

ahhh yet another thread imploding...gotta luv kmc

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Of course he can. He matches Hyperion who holds two universes apart.

Characters fluctuate from showing to showing. You have high low and average showings. You can't equate a character's highest feat with any other random showing. Hyperion could have been operating at 500 ton strength when he fought Hulk.

Gladiator bashed a planet but failed to budge Colossus after the first punch.

Superman oneshots Hulk.

wow i thought by now hulk would have been weeping wishing he had taken son of kryptons advice not to take on AS supes but it looks like he's still standing hellbent on making supes commit murder

Originally posted by h1a8
Characters fluctuate from showing to showing. You have high low and average showings. You can't equate a character's highest feat with any other random showing. Hyperion could have been operating at 500 ton strength when he fought Hulk.

Gladiator bashed a planet but failed to budge Colossus after the first punch.

Hyoerion strength was consistent under Hickman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I never understood this logic....

The team guns were down scaled to justify the other members, it happens on EVERY team. It doesn't mean they aren't elites. They are simply more grounded.

Not everyone is Hickman, where they deal with saving the Multiverse.

there have been multiple times in the past where thor had to single-handedly (almost) save the avengers and was clearly shown to be the most powerful (the original nefaria arc comes to mind). and there was a lengthy periord where herc was the definitive powerhouse on the avengers (before the master of evil arc) and he was even believed by wasp to be the strongest avenger they ever had.

big guns DO suffer on teams though, at times, but, what can you do. it's comics.

The issue is that Jane has sucked worse than Bendis Thor in every book except the ones under Aaron.

You would be hard pressed to find a legitimate win for her in a different book outside her inception period.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
The issue is that Jane has sucked worse than Bendis Thor in every book except the ones under Aaron.

You would be hard pressed to find a legitimate win for her in a different book outside her inception period.

truth

fair enuff.

Right, I can now give this reply the attention it deserves.

Originally posted by carver9
Darksaint still use JLA showings in his arguments though. I understand why he is trying to flip it here. At the end of the day, Hulk powered through some elites. It Supermen would've did what Hulk did to the JLA, he would've been all over it. Not paying him any attention.

I use JLA showings - which are backed up by solo showings.

Flash IMPs a White Martian? Sure, he did so against Zoom.

Evacuates a city/runs from the Source Wall to Earth? Sure, he outran Death in his own book.

But WAIT! Let's use team showings.

Batman (you knew he was coming, didn't you??). Batman. In his own books, struggles with muggers, was broken by Bane, struggles against the friggin' Riddler. Hell, he sometimes struggles against Calendar Man, who is basically the Riddler but shittier. Has a rogue who flies around Gotham on a kite - in a universe where jetpacks are seemingly readily available.

In team showings? He clocks Zoom. Withstands beatings from Mongul, WW, Shaggy Man. Catwoman starts KOing FlashES. He takes Superman out with a whistle. Steals Hal Jordan's ring. The list goes on.

Team Batman is written up - or, team heralds etc are written down in a team setting, so others look good. In this scenario, Hulk is Batman. The team is written down to make him look good.

Let's ignore Batman, I know you don't like him. Let's go with Jane.

In her own book, this happens. Mjolnir dents vibranium and adamantium:
https://imgur.com/a/NBQnX

And can sense life force, no matter how faint:
http://i.imgur.com/Clk9qiU.jpg

In an Avengers book?
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0LI_E-rhAb8/WedmjeSCtzI/AAAAAAACTm4/f-3AQ_AZzIgkf_ed5U2GjHwrXZPsUDC1QCLcBGAs/s1600/052_0039.jpg

She is still the top tier in terms of strength etc. But in a team setting, as the others have pointed out, she is now the top tier of a small pool. Rather than being written at level 100 or whatever, she is level 80. Arbitrarily chosen numbers, to illustrate my point btw. Level 80 is still top, but let's not take her level 100 showings and power scale off that.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I never understood this logic....

The team guns were down scaled to justify the other members, it happens on EVERY team. It doesn't mean they aren't elites. They are simply more grounded.

Not everyone is Hickman, where they deal with saving the Multiverse.

Perhaps I should say not AS elite, then. Jane Thor in her own book would beat Jane Thor in team books.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Sure they are. There's the occasional low showings, but they tend to be looked at as go to's for the most part. And team books tend to emphasize on team, so they tend to move away from the showcasing of the heavier hitters.

Being elite doesn't mean you have to blow up a planet or manhandle trans tiers every other issue.

No, but if you and Rage (and I, actually) all agree that Jane/Herc are elites, but they're downgraded, it's not exactly 'elite' overall. So imagine being the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind - sure, Jane is an elite, but of a more grounded team. Which downgrades her somewhat.

I mean, before you two jumped in, this was the post I replied to:

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I can post this version of Hulk then. This version of Hulk stood in one spot and tanked hits from Hercules (who hurt his hand punching Hulk) and Jane Thor. In regards to this, Hercules IS elite in strength and Jane has taken on and defeated Mangog (while punching his teeth out) and Mangog was said to be more powerful than even the Phoenix force. And again, she couldn't budge Hulk. Hell, Hulk brushed her and Herc off just by flexing his muscles.

So if you're saying Team Jane's 'eliteness' is the same as Solo Jane, you're essentially agreeing with Carver here.

Forget about Odin. The Destroyer. Shi-Ar gods and goddesses. The Phoenix Force. Mangog. The Hulk is above them all.

That is the point I am debating against.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Perhaps I should say not AS elite, then. Jane Thor in her own book would beat Jane Thor in team books.


You can say that about every character.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You can say that about every character.



So you and I both agree that Carver's post, which I was replying to, was false.

It shows that current Hulk is operating above Herald level. I know this hurts tremendously but this is what it tells us. You was in agreement in this very thread that Despero pulls a majority due to his team wrecking showing. Not on this page though. I posted this page because Sin, lol, agreed that Despero js above any Hulk die to his team showing against the JLA and JSA. Hypocrites. The ONLY reason you all are doing this is because it's the Hulk.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=594133&pagenumber=11

You also said the same thing in the Despero and Thanos thread.

Originally posted by carver9
It shows that current Hulk is operating above Herald level. I know this hurts tremendously but this is what it tells us. You was in agreement in this very thread that Despero pulls a majority due to his team wrecking showing. Not on this page though. I posted this page because Sin, lol, agreed that Despero js above any Hulk die to his team showing against the JLA and JSA. Hypocrites. The ONLY reason you all are doing this is because it's the Hulk.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=594133&pagenumber=11

You also said the same thing in the Despero and Thanos thread.

Except....EXCEPT my point was that Professor X wasn't as powerful as his normal 'solo' (I know he's usually in a team book) portrayals.

Evidence: Emma Frost. Who straight up blocked him.

IOW, Professor X was being written down to make Hulk look good. Therefore, Hulk was still susceptible to TP.

My very FIRST post in the thread:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And yet, random no name SHIELD agents managed to penetrate his mind.

Charles wasn't attacking him TOGETHER with Emma, they went separately IIRC.

Emma has skill, not so much power (as she gleefully rubs Rachel's face in it).

I was of the opinion that he pulls a majority because WWH wasn't shown to have that great a defence against TP. You brought Charles up. My counterpoint - exactly like in this thread - was that you couldn't power scale.

So no hypocrisy here.

Edit: is Hulk powerful? Sure. 100% agree.

But to powerscale like you do, crossing titles - that Hulk shrugged Jane/Herc off, when they're not shown to be at Mangog/Phoenix/Destroyer levels in team books, is misguided.

To use your example, I might as well say that Superman fights Skyfathers like Darkseid, but was crushed by Despero, therefore Despero is abstract level.

Originally posted by carver9
It shows that current Hulk is operating above Herald level. I know this hurts tremendously but this is what it tells us. You was in agreement in this very thread that Despero pulls a majority due to his team wrecking showing. Not on this page though. I posted this page because Sin, lol, agreed that Despero js above any Hulk die to his team showing against the JLA and JSA. Hypocrites. The ONLY reason you all are doing this is because it's the Hulk.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=594133&pagenumber=11

You also said the same thing in the Despero and Thanos thread. Lot of good Bran posts in there. A lot of good posts in those last 3 pages. Last two really.

Darksaint is a Carver contrarian though. A Carvtrarian if you will. Carver could be advocating for a cure for Fetal Alchohol Syndrome and DS would jump in with "Can you tell me why drinking while pregnant is even bad? These women need to relax from time to time too. Prove your point how alchohol is even connected to fetal alchohol syndrome."

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except....EXCEPT my point was that Professor X wasn't as powerful as his normal 'solo' (I know he's usually in a team book) portrayals.

Evidence: Emma Frost. Who straight up blocked him.

IOW, Professor X was being written down to make Hulk look good. Therefore, Hulk was still susceptible to TP.

My very FIRST post in the thread:



I was of the opinion that he pulls a majority because WWH wasn't shown to have that great a defence against TP. You brought Charles up. My counterpoint - exactly like in this thread - was that you couldn't power scale.

So no hypocrisy here.

Edit: is Hulk powerful? Sure. 100% agree.

But to powerscale like you do, crossing titles - that Hulk shrugged Jane/Herc off, when they're not shown to be at Mangog/Phoenix/Destroyer levels in team books, is misguided.

To use your example, I might as well say that Superman fights Skyfathers like Darkseid, but was crushed by Despero, therefore Despero is abstract level.

Titus vs Superman, who pulls the majority? Also, who would you give a majority too, Amazo or Superman? Amazo or Flash?

Darkseid during the beginning of New 52 vs Savage Hulk, who is winning? V&V Despero vs Savage Hulk, who would you give the edge to? The Superman that was in V&V vs Ms. Marvel, who wins?

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Lot of good Bran posts in there. A lot of good posts in those last 3 pages. Last two really.

Darksaint is a Carver contrarian though. A Carvtrarian if you will. Carver could be advocating for a cure for Fetal Alchohol Syndrome and DS would jump in with "Can you tell me why drinking while pregnant is even bad? These women need to relax from time to time too. Prove your point how alchohol is even connected to fetal alchohol syndrome."

So I looked up and thought I posted this. Skooted up a little further and realized it was bran. I don't know what to say.

Found more threads where Darksaint gave characters (DC characters) wins over other people due to them having team wrecking showings. Looking for more.

Originally posted by carver9
It shows that current Hulk is operating above Herald level. I know this hurts tremendously but this is what it tells us. You was in agreement in this very thread that Despero pulls a majority due to his team wrecking showing. Not on this page though. I posted this page because Sin, lol, agreed that Despero js above any Hulk die to his team showing against the JLA and JSA. Hypocrites. The ONLY reason you all are doing this is because it's the Hulk.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=594133&pagenumber=11

You also said the same thing in the Despero and Thanos thread.

stop using my name in vein. I have no qualms callomg Hulk a trans tier...my issue is basing it solely off that Avengere issue where he didnt put down anyone noteworthy.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
stop using my name in vein. I have no qualms callomg Hulk a trans tier...my issue is basing it solely off that Avengere issue where he didnt put down anyone noteworthy.

He didn't TRY to. He did not throw a single punch against Thor or Herc and Superboy Prime has been called trans for taking on teams, not killing people (and I cant think of a single showing where Prime fought teams and stood in a spot withstanding their attacks).

Hulk literally stood in a single spot and withstood their attacks. Herc damaged his hand punching Hulk and he flexed and knocked ELITES off of him.

So Sin, who would win in a first fight, V&V Despero or Savage Hulk?

Originally posted by carver9
He didn't TRY to. He did not throw a single punch against Thor or Herc and Superboy Prime has been called trans for taking on teams, not killing people (and I cant think of a single showing where Prime fought teams and stood in a spot withstanding their attacks).

Hulk literally stood in a single spot and withstood their attacks. Herc damaged his hand punching Hulk and he flexed and knocked ELITES off of him.

So Sin, who would win in a first fight, V&V Despero or Savage Hulk?

Despero is not in this thread but yes he would beat Savage. Not WB but Savage.

So Simon is a trans tier? He took two head shots a choke hokd and bear hug and was fine.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

In an Avengers book?
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0LI_E-rhAb8/WedmjeSCtzI/AAAAAAACTm4/f-3AQ_AZzIgkf_ed5U2GjHwrXZPsUDC1QCLcBGAs/s1600/052_0039.jpg
That's a Thor book.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

She is still the top tier in terms of strength etc. But in a team setting, as the others have pointed out, she is now the top tier of a small pool. Rather than being written at level 100 or whatever, she is level 80. Arbitrarily chosen numbers, to illustrate my point btw. Level 80 is still top, but let's not take her level 100 showings and power scale off that.


Perhaps I should say not AS elite, then. Jane Thor in her own book would beat Jane Thor in team books.

No, but if you and Rage (and I, actually) all agree that Jane/Herc are elites, but they're downgraded, it's not exactly 'elite' overall. So imagine being the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind - sure, Jane is an elite, but of a more grounded team. Which downgrades her somewhat.

I mean, before you two jumped in, this was the post I replied to:

Forget about Odin. The Destroyer. Shi-Ar gods and goddesses. The Phoenix Force. Mangog. The Hulk is above them all.

That is the point I am debating against.
Obviously she does better in her book.
But we are arguing grades here. I just disagree with a blanket statement of "they are not elites" when it comes to a team setting. At least Jane... Herc, he's barely in any comic except Avengers.

Iirc Jane fought Annihilus for hours. He's usually considered around low trans. Plus im pretty sure they were slowly being weakened within the Nzone. I think she also ripped his hand out.

Defeated a giant who spits out lightning w/o mew mew. Iirc she was catching his bolts and even punched him through a mountain.

In a Nova book she was with other "elites" like Bill and CptM and were tasked on destroying asteroids hurtling towards earth.

And even in her own book she has relative showings with the Avengers.
Almost all the heroes of earth(implied) were frozen by Malekith and frost giants. She came in and saved everyone.

She stopped a sattelite hurtling from space. The Avengers were in dire straits before she showed up.


They're not elite only if you dwell on the average to low showings.

Originally posted by carver9
Titus vs Superman, who pulls the majority? Also, who would you give a majority too, Amazo or Superman? Amazo or Flash?

Darkseid during the beginning of New 52 vs Savage Hulk, who is winning? V&V Despero vs Savage Hulk, who would you give the edge to? The Superman that was in V&V vs Ms. Marvel, who wins?

Originally posted by carver9
Found more threads where Darksaint gave characters (DC characters) wins over other people due to them having team wrecking showings. Looking for more.

If you are using that search function, I suggest you quote this exact post, which is the point I have been trying to make endlessly:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think it depends on how many showings they have.

Deathstroke has plenty of showings, where, whilst he tags Flash, also has many showings where he is much slower than Flash (hit by bullets, for example).

Therefore, fights don't count as much. Feats do. Because of PIS, or WIS, or whatever, where he has to be shown to be a threat - thus, dumbing down the other side. Why else would Toyman be a fricking threat, lol.

LT? Darkseid? Fights count much more. They don't have as many appearances. ABC scaling is needed. When they enter a fight, it's a pretty damn big deal.

Captain Marvel? He has a fair few appearances. So his feats need to be taken into account. Orion? Fewer - and then, he only seems to be trotted out for fights (he IS the Dog of War, after all). So his fights count for more.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're not understanding my point.

It depends on the number of showings they have, total.

Billy has quite a few showings. So his feats need to be taken into account, more than his fights.

Gladiator does not (relative to Billy). So his fights count for much more than his feats. He is the same like Orion, who has even fewer showings still.

Hulk has TONS of showings. So his fights and feats are all equal(ish) in weighting.

IOW: if a character has very few appearances (LT, In-Betweener, Orion, Galactus) then their fights are a better gauge of their power.

The more showings a character has, and the more they start interacting with other characters, the more their fights get diluted. Lobo is a good example, as are the Lanterns. You yourself acknowledge, in team books Lobo is less impressive. Lanterns are terrible against bricks. That's when their feats become more of a gauge, where writers don't have to dilute them. Batman and Cap are also good examples of this.

This is an earlier post I made which may be less coherent:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I say it depends on the character.

Combat feats are usually shown by baddies. How do you show how powerful Black Adam/Despero/Superboy Prime/Doomsday/Gorr/Voidtry is? You have them run a train on your fav heroes.

These guys will brutally smash and rip their opponents apart.

How do you show how powerful Superman/Thor is? You can't have them bullying large groups of villains, well, you could, but it would quickly get boring. Haha look as Superman defeats an entire army....again. Stay tuned next month when he does the same, only with a different army!

Enter, space cheese feats. He needs to save a world - he pushes it out of the way. Hyperion is a doomed last survivor - two universes explode on him.

In short, we have had this dance for many years. Mangog is an elite, as a villain with very few appearances. Jane Thor defeating him shouldn't take anything away from him, just like it shouldn't ADD anything to her. Otherwise you get into the weird circle where Hulk>Jane>Mangog >Phoenix/Odin>Hulk.

yeah no blanket statement will work, like saying that breaking a team doesn't necessarily show trans powa! it's hilarious that we are jumping all over this most recent hulk feat when in the past he's battled huge teams but no one wanted to jump him to trans then. know why--because sh!t happened that granted further perspective. so what happens when immortal hulk gets punked by the next big villain? is that villain auto skyfather? or wait, is hulk now skyfather level....? hard to keep straight with him nowadays.

he had a good showing ffs--or is it that thor and herc had low ones? i mean she pummels mangog, and can't move hulk? seems like this was a TERRIBLY low showing for jane--maybe one of her worst. can anyone prove this wasn't just a low showing? no? huh. because if they both DID have a low showing, well, that means it wasn't all that great a showing for hulk after all, was it?

very easy to play these scaling games--one way OR the other.

cool showing for hulk. no more than that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That's a Thor book.


Obviously she does better in her book.
But we are arguing grades here. I just disagree with a blanket statement of "they are not elites" when it comes to a team setting. At least Jane... Herc, he's barely in any comic except Avengers.

Iirc Jane fought Annihilus for hours. He's usually considered around low trans. Plus im pretty sure they were slowly being weakened within the Nzone. I think she also ripped his hand out.

Defeated a giant who spits out lightning w/o mew mew. Iirc she was catching his bolts and even punched him through a mountain.

In a Nova book she was with other "elites" like Bill and CptM and were tasked on destroying asteroids hurtling towards earth.

And even in her own book she has relative showings with the Avengers.
Almost all the heroes of earth(implied) were frozen by Malekith and frost giants. She came in and saved everyone.

She stopped a sattelite hurtling from space. The Avengers were in dire straits before she showed up.


They're not elite only if you dwell on the average to low showings.

Well, yes, we ARE arguing grades.

Carver is powerscaling off her highest ever feats. Which is fine, if you are also of the opinion that as one of her highest feats (which carver directly references) is fighting Mangog, and he is scaling off her statement that Mangog was more of a danger than the Destroyer, Odin, the Phoenix Force etc, this now means that Hulk is > all of them, then sure, OK.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah no blanket statement will work, like saying that breaking a team doesn't necessarily show trans powa! it's hilarious that we are jumping all over this most recent hulk feat when in the past he's battled huge teams but no one wanted to jump him to trans then. know why--because sh!t happened that granted further perspective. so what happens when immortal hulk gets punked by the next big villain? is that villain auto skyfather? or wait, is hulk now skyfather level....? hard to keep straight with him nowadays.

he had a good showing ffs--or is it that thor and herc had low ones? i mean she pummels mangog, and can't move hulk? seems like this was a TERRIBLY low showing for jane--maybe one of her worst. can anyone prove this wasn't just a low showing? no? huh. because if they both DID have a low showing, well, that means it wasn't all that great a showing for hulk after all, was it?

very easy to play these scaling games--one way OR the other.

cool showing for hulk. no more than that.



Anyway, my posts quoted were like 4 years apart or whatever. Am sure numerous holes can be poked in them.

My original point still stands though. Hulk isn't > Mangog > Phoenix Force or Odin, lol.

Or maybe Immortal Hulk is. He's higher than THE abstract force of creation, the Eater of Stars, the primordial force that galactic empires tremble and shit their pants over. Hulkfather.

Which makes Clint Barton TOAA.

yeah, let it be decreed that hulk won comics.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, yes, we ARE arguing grades.

Carver is powerscaling off her highest ever feats. Which is fine, if you are also of the opinion that as one of her highest feats (which carver directly references) is fighting Mangog, and he is scaling off her statement that Mangog was more of a danger than the Destroyer, Odin, the Phoenix Force etc, this now means that Hulk is > all of them, then sure, OK.
So we were in agreement all along.




Phukkin Carver.

never forget again the face of the true enemy.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, let it be decreed that hulk won comics.

When was that ever in question?

Hulk is Hulk.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
If you are using that search function, I suggest you quote this exact post, which is the point I have been trying to make endlessly:





This is an earlier post I made which may be less coherent:



In short, we have had this dance for many years. Mangog is an elite, as a villain with very few appearances. Jane Thor defeating him shouldn't take anything away from him, just like it shouldn't ADD anything to her. Otherwise you get into the weird circle where Hulk>Jane>Mangog >Phoenix/Odin>Hulk.

I understand what you're saying but using what you're saying here, we still have to get a gauge on how powerful the heros are that these people are defeating. Just because the villain or whomever doesn't have that many showings, do we automatically bump the heros up to planet busting, planet moving Darkseid, Mangog fighting levels or do they stay below elite?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Despero is not in this thread but yes he would beat Savage. Not WB but Savage.

So Simon is a trans tier? He took two head shots a choke hokd and bear hug and was fine.

Why would Despero beat Savage?

Simon took those hits from a Hulk that was obviously toying with him. Hulk literally told him during those pages that he could kill him.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah no blanket statement will work, like saying that breaking a team doesn't necessarily show trans powa! it's hilarious that we are jumping all over this most recent hulk feat when in the past he's battled huge teams but no one wanted to jump him to trans then. know why--because sh!t happened that granted further perspective. so what happens when immortal hulk gets punked by the next big villain? is that villain auto skyfather? or wait, is hulk now skyfather level....? hard to keep straight with him nowadays.

he had a good showing ffs--or is it that thor and herc had low ones? i mean she pummels mangog, and can't move hulk? seems like this was a TERRIBLY low showing for jane--maybe one of her worst. can anyone prove this wasn't just a low showing? no? huh. because if they both DID have a low showing, well, that means it wasn't all that great a showing for hulk after all, was it?

very easy to play these scaling games--one way OR the other.

cool showing for hulk. no more than that.

Wonder why you didn't say this when people were parading Superman showing? I don't get it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, yes, we ARE arguing grades.

Carver is powerscaling off her highest ever feats. Which is fine, if you are also of the opinion that as one of her highest feats (which carver directly references) is fighting Mangog, and he is scaling off her statement that Mangog was more of a danger than the Destroyer, Odin, the Phoenix Force etc, this now means that Hulk is > all of them, then sure, OK.

Never said that Hulk was above those people but what I did say is Hulk is above elites.

Originally posted by carver9
I understand what you're saying but using what you're saying here, we still have to get a gauge on how powerful the heros are that these people are defeating. Just because the villain or whomever doesn't have that many showings, do we automatically bump the heros up to planet busting, planet moving Darkseid, Mangog fighting levels or do they stay below elite?

I am saying Mangog is an elite.

I am saying Jane is an elite.

Hulk is an elite.

HOWEVER, I am NOT saying that Hulk>Mangog>Phoenix/Odin.

You are saying that Jane Thor is at her Mangog/Odin fighting levels when she fought Hulk. I am saying she isn't. Why can't it be a low showing for Jane (the fight with Hulk, I mean)? I have shown that low showings indeed exist for Jane - as smellyhymen17 pointed out, sometimes even in her own book.

Look, we know the Jane/Mangog fight was her last ever fight. And in that fight, she said Mangog gave her the greatest challenge she had ever had, and was her most dangerous opponent.

That includes all of her past opponents.

Including Hulk (because she's obv still alive).

So if you want, sure, Hulk can be > Jane. But as per her own admission, Mangog was still her greatest opponent. Hulk wasn't even mentioned in her list.

So it would be: Mangog > Odin/Phoenix/Destroyer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hulk > Jane.

Originally posted by carver9
Never said that Hulk was above those people but what I did say is Hulk is above elites.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I can post this version of Hulk then. This version of Hulk stood in one spot and tanked hits from Hercules (who hurt his hand punching Hulk) and Jane Thor. In regards to this, Hercules IS elite in strength and Jane has taken on and defeated Mangog (while punching his teeth out) and Mangog was said to be more powerful than even the Phoenix force. And again, she couldn't budge Hulk. Hell, Hulk brushed her and Herc off just by flexing his muscles.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I am saying Mangog is an elite.

I am saying Jane is an elite.

Hulk is an elite.

HOWEVER, I am NOT saying that Hulk>Mangog>Phoenix/Odin.

You are saying that Jane Thor is at her Mangog/Odin fighting levels when she fought Hulk. I am saying she isn't. Why can't it be a low showing for Jane (the fight with Hulk, I mean)? I have shown that low showings indeed exist for Jane - as smellyhymen17 pointed out, sometimes even in her own book.

Look, we know the Jane/Mangog fight was her last ever fight. And in that fight, she said Mangog gave her the greatest challenge she had ever had, and was her most dangerous opponent.

That includes all of her past opponents.

Including Hulk (because she's obv still alive).

So if you want, sure, Hulk can be > Jane. But as per her own admission, Mangog was still her greatest opponent. Hulk wasn't even mentioned in her list.

So it would be: Mangog > Odin/Phoenix/Destroyer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hulk > Jane.

You're making different versions of the same character is what I am disagreeing with. If Captain Marvel in the next comic punch Wonder Woman head off in JLA book, I'm not going to say "he can beat JLA Wonder Woman but he cant beat Wonder Woman". It's like saying HP Doomsday cant beat Martian Manhunter because he didn't beat him in his own book. We don't separate characters, bro.

Originally posted by carver9
Why would Despero beat Savage?

Simon took those hits from a Hulk that was obviously toying with him. Hulk literally told him during those pages that he could kill him.

toying? seriously? Simom said hulk couldnt hurt him amd he couldnt. youre legit trolling now.

Originally posted by carver9
You're making different versions of the same character is what I am disagreeing with. If Captain Marvel in the next comic punch Wonder Woman head off in JLA book, I'm not going to say "he can beat JLA Wonder Woman but he cant beat Wonder Woman". It's like saying HP Doomsday cant beat Martian Manhunter because he didn't beat him in his own book. We don't separate characters, bro.

So IYO, the Jane that defeated Mangog (who was said to be more powerful than the Phoenix force) is written to be the exact same power level as the Jane that the Hulk defeated just by flexing his muscles?

And it's very interesting you say that we don't separate characters. Very interesting indeed.

Didn't you say the same about Lobo? That he doesn't do well outside of his own titles?

And didn't you say the same about GLs?

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder why you didn't say this when people were parading Superman showing? I don't get it.

which superman showing exactly would you like me to be critical of?

@Saint so where do you place Jane?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So IYO, the Jane that defeated Mangog (who was said to be more powerful than the Phoenix force) is written to be the exact same power level as the Jane that the Hulk defeated just by flexing his muscles?

And it's very interesting you say that we don't separate characters. Very interesting indeed.

Didn't you say the same about Lobo? That he doesn't do well outside of his own titles?

And didn't you say the same about GLs?

What is different about the Jane who defeats Mangog and the Jane who is manhandled by Gladiator?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
toying? seriously? Simom said hulk couldnt hurt him amd he couldnt. youre legit trolling now.

Ummm, he then changed his tone to that even if you do rip my head off, I am ionic energy, and can't die.

Don't get me wrong, Simon was crazy durable in that showing, but Simon would have been broken.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except....EXCEPT my point was that Professor X wasn't as powerful as his normal 'solo' (I know he's usually in a team book) portrayals.

Evidence: Emma Frost. Who straight up blocked him.

IOW, Professor X was being written down to make Hulk look good. Therefore, Hulk was still susceptible to TP.

My very FIRST post in the thread:



I was of the opinion that he pulls a majority because WWH wasn't shown to have that great a defence against TP. You brought Charles up. My counterpoint - exactly like in this thread - was that you couldn't power scale.

So no hypocrisy here.

Edit: is Hulk powerful? Sure. 100% agree.

But to powerscale like you do, crossing titles - that Hulk shrugged Jane/Herc off, when they're not shown to be at Mangog/Phoenix/Destroyer levels in team books, is misguided.

To use your example, I might as well say that Superman fights Skyfathers like Darkseid, but was crushed by Despero, therefore Despero is abstract level.

https://i.imgur.com/MqUkDbn.jpg

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Ummm, he then changed his tone to that even if you do rip my head off, I am ionic energy, and can't die.

Don't get me wrong, Simon was crazy durable in that showing, but Simon would have been broken.

That remains to be seen and wasnt my point. He wasnt effected by hulk, was holding back and took two undefended shots to the face....based on other logic that makes him trans

1 simon>>1 thor+1 hercules

Carver is in charge of this thread. He has banning powers in here.

Originally posted by Badabing
Carver is in charge of this thread. He has banning powers in here.

NO GAMMITE HAS AUTHORITY OVER ME!!!!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
toying? seriously? Simom said hulk couldnt hurt him amd he couldnt. youre legit trolling now.

Something is wrong Sin. Sigh... Hulk tells Simon he can hurt him which means he wasn't even trying.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/38087713/Avengers_2016-_686-006.jpg.html#

Hulk punch blood clean out of his mouth which means, HE HURT HIM...

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/38087710/Avengers_2016-_686-004.jpg.html

Squeeze blood out of his mouth.

https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/38087714/Avengers_2016-_686-011.jpg.html

And again, Hulk literally tells him he can hurt him. Just stop sin, with everything.

Originally posted by Badabing
Carver is in charge of this thread. He has banning powers in here.

I feel... so honored.

I'm writing down a list of names tonight. Sorry peeps. LOB, you're first on my list.

Originally posted by carver9
I feel... so honored.

I'm writing down a list of names tonight. Sorry peeps. LOB, you're first on my list.

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE GAMMITE PEASANT!!!

LOB, say your goodbyes. durwave

Originally posted by Badabing
LOB, say your goodbyes. durwave

YOU SAY GOODBYE BEFORE I SEND YOU HERE!!!!

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Z4-rdRY---/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/jywdgxuqi2rtlx9oblry.jpg

Originally posted by TheHulkster
What is different about the Jane who defeats Mangog and the Jane who is manhandled by Gladiator?

They're the same, there's no difference.

Which makes my point all the stronger. Power scaling off battles isn't the best gauge. Because you now have Gladiator being more of a challenge than Mangog, who was more of a challenge than the Phoenix Force, who Gladiator fears....

Originally posted by Sin I AM
@Saint so where do you place Jane?

Same as where Odinson was. The top tier of Marvel's characters. She's had some nice feats and yeah, Mjolnir flies and does things for her it never did for Odinson - but neither has she done a Godblast, or redirected and amped blasts at 100x or whatever. So overall, roughly the same. Her beating of Odin was a good feat, but there's something strange there, especially with his failure to lift the hammer.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So IYO, the Jane that defeated Mangog (who was said to be more powerful than the Phoenix force) is written to be the exact same power level as the Jane that the Hulk defeated just by flexing his muscles?

And it's very interesting you say that we don't separate characters. Very interesting indeed.

Didn't you say the same about Lobo? That he doesn't do well outside of his own titles?

And didn't you say the same about GLs?

It's the same Jane is what I am saying. I'm not going to discredit Wolverine doing amazing against Hulk because it didn't happen in a Hulk book. We've never debated like this before and I'm not starting it now. Hulk worked JANE THOR. Kind of like you posting Superman (possessed by Max Lord) fighting the JLA as evidence not saying anything about the team being hindered due to them being on a team. Ya know, you accepted it.

What did I say about Lobo? Cant remember.

GLs just suck, period. I will always say that no matter which book they are in, high end bricks would crush them. It is what it is.

Like Zod crushed Hal, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Like Zod crushed Hal, right?

How many times did it take Hal to lose to beat him?

Just one time.

I still think he threw that fight.

Originally posted by carver9
It's the same Jane is what I am saying. I'm not going to discredit Wolverine doing amazing against Hulk because it didn't happen in a Hulk book. We've never debated like this before and I'm not starting it now. Hulk worked JANE THOR. Kind of like you posting Superman (possessed by Max Lord) fighting the JLA as evidence not saying anything about the team being hindered due to them being on a team. Ya know, you accepted it.

What did I say about Lobo? Cant remember.

GLs just suck, period. I will always say that no matter which book they are in, high end bricks would crush them. It is what it is.

It's the exact same thing.

You seem to have this idea that Lanterns have some weird power which doesn't work against bricks. Based on their interactions.

But you've got the logic all wrong. It's the same Lantern, right?

Same way you seem to split combat and travel speed. It's all speed.

We always debate like this, because you always split things up when it suits you. Lanterns are weak against bricks.... therefore it is what it is.

If you had in a forum fight, Lantern vs a brick and then a second fight with a non brick, for some reason you automatically say the Lanterns shields/strength/speed whatever goes down. Even if it is the exact same Lantern. Why?

Same character, right? Same guy (Hal. Or Guy, if you want to keep it simple).

You seem to accept that pretty quickly.

You split Toon Force Lobo apart from 'normal' Lobo. But they're the same, no?