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Castle gets prep.


Who wins?

Rulkbuster...

Vader

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Rulkbuster... Dark Reign

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Dark Reign



https://readcomics.io/images/manga/deadpool-suicide-kings/5/9.jpg

Frank.
That scan pretty much sums it up.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


https://readcomics.io/images/manga/deadpool-suicide-kings/5/9.jpg ....none of that stuff would enable him to kill vader.

Frank's bare fists would suffice.

Originally posted by deathslash
....none of that stuff would enable him to kill vader.

Sooooooo, maybe he uses different stuff?

Originally posted by riv6672
Sooooooo, maybe he uses different stuff?

There was a good reason why Star Wars characters were banned on this forum.

"The Force can do anything" fallacy is just as awful as "Superman can beat anyone" or "Thor is GOD" ones.

--
This is a one-sided prep scenario, Old Man Ani gets his burnt ******* raped with a baseball bat wrapped in a razor wire.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
There was a good reason why Star Wars characters were banned on this forum.

"The Force can do anything" fallacy is just as awful as "Goku can beat anyone" or "Thor is GOD" ones.

--
This is a one-sided prep scenario, Old Man Ani gets his burnt ******* raped with a baseball bat wrapped in a razor wire.

When he's right, he's right.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
There was a good reason why Star Wars characters were banned on this forum.

"The Force can do anything" fallacy is just as awful as "Superman can beat anyone" or "Thor is GOD" ones.

--
This is a one-sided prep scenario, Old Man Ani gets his burnt ******* raped with a baseball bat wrapped in a razor wire. I'm not bringing up some sort of fallacy though. Vader has easily displayed that he can catch/throw/deflect attacks, his precog has enable him to survive numerous sneak attacks, and he has a power that frank legitimately has no answer for....

Originally posted by deathslash


Vader ... has a power that Frank legitimately has no answer for...



mmm

Good p.r. ....?

Originally posted by deathslash
I'm not bringing up some sort of fallacy though. Vader has easily displayed that he can catch/throw/deflect attacks, his precog has enable him to survive numerous sneak attacks, and he has a power that frank legitimately has no answer for....

all true

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
mmm

Good p.r. ....? that too
Originally posted by Sin I AM
all true at least somebody here thinks logically.

Vader still wins, Franks prep isn't going to help him much.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Vader still wins, Franks prep isn't going to help him much.



I'm not sure how ANYBODY who knows The Punisher's actual publication history can say what you just wrote without some HEAVY qualification ...

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551118_image.jpg


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551119_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551120_image.jpg


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551121_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551122_image.jpg

Source: The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe
Circa: 1999

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not sure how ANYBODY who knows The Punisher's actual publication history can say what you just wrote without some HEAVY qualification ...

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551118_image.jpg


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551119_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551120_image.jpg


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551121_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551122_image.jpg

Source: The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe
Circa: 1999

lol...castle couldnt even handle daken

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not sure how ANYBODY who knows The Punisher's actual publication history can say what you just wrote without some HEAVY qualification ...


Oh i know of that book

lots of Punisher wank from Ennis, Frank is good but not THAT good.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
lol...castle couldnt even handle daken

He didn't prep against Daken.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He didn't prep against Daken.

even with prep hed lose and be back to franken castle faster than u can say ennis is trash

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not sure how ANYBODY who knows The Punisher's actual publication history can say what you just wrote without some HEAVY qualification ...

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551118_image.jpg


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551119_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551120_image.jpg


https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551121_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38551122_image.jpg

Source: The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe
Circa: 1999 ...alternate realities where the heroes act extra retarded are canon now?

Originally posted by deathslash
...alternate realities where the heroes act extra retarded are canon now?


Blame Lucas for the prequels, man, not me ...

And Garth Ennis has what to do with that?....since deathslash is talking about what you posted.

How would Vader deal with sound attacks (from Klaw's arm)?

I understand he can deflect/block bullets etc, deflect explosions....but if Force users need concentration, sonics would be the way to go.

That's how I would try it. Don't give him even a split second to focus. Bell rings, (one sided prep means no precog allowed), I start hitting with the sonics and bombs to keep him off balance before sniping him.

Maybe even rig the battlefield with booby traps.

Would that work?

Sounds like a plan

Frank does good job with sonics, as seen when he wrecked Daredevil.

Originally posted by deathslash
...alternate realities where the heroes act extra retarded are canon now?
Yes. Yes the are.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/f/f3/Kyle_Rayner_raped.jpg

I love how Diana is completely unimpressed by Kyle getting raped in Gotham

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How would Vader deal with sound attacks (from Klaw's arm)?

I understand he can deflect/block bullets etc, deflect explosions....but if Force users need concentration, sonics would be the way to go.

That's how I would try it. Don't give him even a split second to focus. Bell rings, (one sided prep means no precog allowed), I start hitting with the sonics and bombs to keep him off balance before sniping him.

Maybe even rig the battlefield with booby traps.

Would that work? I honestly doubt that it would work. His armor is still made out of durasteel and it's allowed him to shrug off being inside of a weapons facility as its reactor went critical, survive an ancient sith battleship blowing up underneath him,and tank two AT-ST'S falling on him.

Not to mention that he can still use his tk to throw up a force bubble to protect from Sonic/explosions and the standard starting distance still heavily favors Vader.

How does standard start distance favor Vader in a prep fight?
Frank would factor that in.

Looking/looked up that scan from the previous page.
That Klaw sonic gun seems capable of taking down under-construction buildings, besides sending the members of the Wrecking Crew reeling:


https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38553814_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38553815_image.jpg


https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38553816_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38553817_image.jpg


https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38553818_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38553819_image.jpg


Source: Deadpool Suicide Kings #5

Originally posted by riv6672
How does standard start distance favor Vader in a prep fight?
Frank would factor that in. it means that Frank's would need to get closer in order to properly use that sonic blaster. Meanwhile, Vader can still crush Frank's heart eeven if he can't see him and his range at least extends to orbit.

TL;DR: Frank is within Vader's range, but likely doesn't have what it takes to instantly win. Even if he have something to instantly kill Vader, this would essentially end up as a quick draw scenario.

Originally posted by deathslash
it means that Frank's would need to get closer in order to properly use that sonic blaster. Meanwhile, Vader can still crush Frank's heart eeven if he can't see him and his range at least extends to orbit.

TL;DR: Frank is within Vader's range, but likely doesn't have what it takes to instantly win. Even if he have something to instantly kill Vader, this would essentially end up as a quick draw scenario.

It's prep. One sided.

So two combatants start at locations A and B, 500m apart.

Except Frank has rigged location A with explosives, sonics, whatever.

Starting distance isn't an issue. As soon as the battle starts, OP means there are things in Vader's grill. Whether it be sonics as in my scenario (remote controlled? Motion controlled? Timer? Whatever) or explosives or whatever.

IOW, it's going to be instantaneous. Match starts, Frank's one sided prep is going to pay off. Vader on the other hand would have no idea what's happening until he gets his bearings.

Well, yes, sure. If Frank's prep means he's allowed to plant a nuclear bomb under Vader's feet, set to go off immediately when the fight starts, he's going to win for sure.

^^^while he wont need to go that far (thanks DS, for addressing my point), sure, lets go that far, to see deathslash say Vader tanks a nuke.

Fanboys tend to amp shit to ridiculous levels, then argue those ridiculous levels rather than points that actually remain in the realm of in-character.
Its either really dumb, or really clever, on their part, as it tends to end the thread in a haze of absurdity.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^while he wont need to go that far (thanks DS, for addressing my point), sure, lets go that far, to see deathslash say Vader tanks a nuke.

Fanboys tend to amp shit to ridiculous levels, then argue those ridiculous levels rather than points that actually remain in the realm of in-character.
Its either really dumb, or really clever, on their part, as it tends to end the thread in a haze of absurdity. yeah, because pointing out that vader could choke the shit out of frank from at the beginning of the fight is fanboying.

take that antagonistic crap somewhere else. All that I've done is bring up actual showings and feats. It's really telling that you side with a guy that brings up a non canon alternate reality as proof of how frank wins...

Originally posted by deathslash

It's really telling that you side with a guy that brings up a non canon alternate reality as proof of how Frank wins ...



That's actually not quite what I did that for.

I suppose it's okay if you want to THINK I did it for that reason, as it aids development of this discussion, but, for the record, that's not QUITE it ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
That's actually not quite what I did that for.

I suppose it's okay if you want to THINK I did it for that reason, as it aids development of this discussion, but, for the record, that's not QUITE it ... did you post those scans to show what he could do with prep? If you did, you could have simply posted canon scans instead of an alternate reality and we could've avoided this argument altogether.

Originally posted by deathslash
did you post those scans to show what he could do with prep? If you did, you could have simply posted canon scans instead of an alternate reality and we could've avoided this argument altogether.


I usually post for many reasons.
One is to give a concrete illustration of a concept in action.

The following, seen first in a Punisher respect thread, iirc, has a gem or two contained therein:

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38564692_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38564693_image.jpg https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/38564694_image.jpg

Originally posted by deathslash
I honestly doubt that it would work. His armor is still made out of durasteel and it's allowed him to shrug off being inside of a weapons facility as its reactor went critical, survive an ancient sith battleship blowing up underneath him,and tank two AT-ST'S falling on him.


Punisher should have enough sense to try attacks specifically tailored to attack the electrical systems of Vader's life support suit.

Magnetic mines and electro magnetic pulses (EMPs) come immediately to mind.
Tell me why the following should or would not happen to Vader.

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564697_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564698_image.jpg


https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564699_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564700_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564701_image.jpg


https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564702_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564703_image.jpg

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564704_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564705_image.jpg

Sources: Darth Vader #s 23 and 24, Volume 1
Circa: 2016

Originally posted by cdtm
Castle gets prep.


Who wins?

Even with prep, Vader would have to be physically held in place, smoke massive amounts of OG Kush, and mind raped in order to lose.

^^^Oh, well that convinced me.
Way to bury the lead, Vader fans.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Oh, well that convinced me.
Way to bury the lead, Vader fans.

His psionic might is too much. He could burst Frank's organs the moment that the match began, or just toss him 500 feet into the air and wait for the splat.

Originally posted by Stoic
His psionic might is too much. He could burst Frank's organs the moment that the match began, or just toss him 500 feet into the air and wait for the splat.

Why didn't he do any of that in the episode shown above?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Why didn't he do any of that in the episode shown above?

Wait a sec. You actually believe that Frank has a chance here? Or are you going to pretend that Vader does not have Force powers?

Vader. Not necessarily easily given the stipulations, but Vader.

vader wins and easily, the simple fact that the op tried to stack the thread in Punishers favor shows how much Castle is out of his league

Originally posted by Sin I AM
vader wins and easily, the simple fact that the op tried to stack the thread in Punishers favor shows how much Castle is out of his league The OP tried to make a legit and balanced versus thread since everybody knows that Vader would rape Castle in a direct confrontation.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Punisher should have enough sense to try attacks specifically tailored to attack the electrical systems of Vader's life support suit.

Magnetic mines and electro magnetic pulses (EMPs) come immediately to mind.
Tell me why the following should or would not happen to Vader.

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564697_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564698_image.jpg


https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564699_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564700_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564701_image.jpg


https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564702_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564703_image.jpg

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564704_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564705_image.jpg

Sources: Darth Vader #s 23 and 24, Volume 1
Circa: 2016 you do realize that Vader casually kept himself alive without his suit turned on in the very next issue right?

Originally posted by deathslash
you do realize that Vader casually kept himself alive without his suit turned on in the very next issue right?

Same one, actually -- the last 4 of my scans is from Vader #24.

But do you realize how LONG it took Vader to recover movement and function?

Frank would have used Vader's own sabre to quarter V's head in the time of all the monologuing Cylo did and all V's reminiscing.

Didn't want to be the one to say it.

Frank could have grabbed a sandwich, shave, and a shower, and still had time to bisect Vader.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
The OP tried to make a legit and balanced versus thread since everybody knows that Vader would rape Castle in a direct confrontation.

how is it balance when he needs plot devices to be relevant?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Same one, actually -- the last 4 of my scans is from Vader #24.

But do you realize how LONG it took Vader to recover movement and function?

Frank would have used Vader's own sabre to quarter V's head in the time of all the monologuing Cylo did and all V's reminiscing.

So now Frank has outside help now to whip up a remote to shut down Vader's suit?

https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566102_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566103_image.jpg



https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566104_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566105_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566106_image.jpg



https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566107_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566108_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566109_image.jpg


Talented colorist. Also, talented writer.

Anybody who can make C-3PO seem genuinely menacing has my respect!

https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38566110_image.jpg

Source: Darth Vader #1
Writer: Kieron Gillen
Colorist: Edgar Delgado
Circa: 2016

Originally posted by Stoic
Wait a sec. You actually believe that Frank has a chance here? Or are you going to pretend that Vader does not have Force powers?


Let me be clear:

If Vader were the one given one-sided prep-time, Vader would win.

If both sides were given prep-time, Vader would PROBABLY win, but it's somewhat more difficult to call.

If this were a standard match, and neither side had prep-time, Vader would win.


However, you don't HAVE any of the situations listed.

You have Punisher alone receiving prep-time.

And that's something different altogether.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's prep. One sided.

So two combatants start at locations A and B, 500m apart.

Except Frank has rigged location A with explosives, sonics, whatever ...




I'm finding this actually IS the Punisher's M.O.

Notice how much he's got set up just for dealing with ordinary thugs:


https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38566159_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38566160_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38566161_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38566162_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38566163_image.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Frank does good job with sonics, as seen when he wrecked Daredevil.




https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38568604_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38568605_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38568606_image.jpg https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38568607_image.jpg

Originally posted by Kazenji
So now Frank has outside help now to whip up a remote to shut down Vader's suit?


Did Punisher have "outside help" when he made and used a remote-controlled ultrasonic trap to take down Daredevil, through DD's heightened hearing and sense abilities, as shown in my previous post?

Here's what happened when DD woke up, by the way:

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38568645_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38568646_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38568647_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38568648_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38568649_image.jpg

Source: Punisher #3
Circa: 2000

Or Pym particles.

http://i.imgur.com/ILUqTEG.jpg

Sonics again (just for Stilt):
https://i.imgur.com/h3o2PWC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3IDUvVy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Bkfto0z.jpg

Originally posted by Sin I AM
ennis is trash


I'm curious what you've read from him that you find so distasteful.
I stumbled upon his "Matt in Prison" storyline and was amazed at how well constructed some of it was:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38569310_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38569311_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38569312_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38569313_image.jpg

Source: Daredevil #82-87 arc
Circa: 2006

In relation to this thread, I was amazed at how quickly Frank can kill a man without weapons, how casually he deals with bureaucracy to obtain what he desires (Need to get into Ryker's to give a hero you respect and admire a fighting chance? Murder the nearest disposable S.O.B.), and how complete Punisher's skill set seems to be (not everybody can fly a helicopter, for instance).

Frank's a talented man!

Frank just needs to go HIGHROUND !

It's worth pointing out that various criminal and government organizations have tech devoted to neutralizing things like telekinetic, mutant, and/or metahuman powers ...

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38569373_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38569374_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38569375_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38569376_image.jpg

Source: Magneto #0
Circa: 1994

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sonics again (just for Stilt):
https://i.imgur.com/h3o2PWC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3IDUvVy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Bkfto0z.jpg

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/icons/v2/icon12.gif

Thanks. Probably my favorite Punisher/Spider-Man "fight".

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm curious what you've read from him that you find so distasteful.

It's how Ennis treats superheroes in general, that's what pisses most people off.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Frank's a talented man!

Well, there is a reason why he's called a one-man army.

Most people would need a lifetime to learn half the shit he knows.

Crossed was ****ing awesome

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's how Ennis treats superheroes in general, that's what pisses most people off.

That doesnt make the stories non canon.
-shrug-
If everyone excluded feats they didnt like or agree with, this forum would be as dead as the book discussion forum.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm curious what you've read from him that you find so distasteful.
I stumbled upon his "Matt in Prison" storyline and was amazed at how well constructed some of it was:

https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38569310_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38569311_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38569312_image.jpg https://s7d1.turboimg.net/t1/38569313_image.jpg

Source: Daredevil #82-87 arc
Circa: 2006

In relation to this thread, I was amazed at how quickly Frank can kill a man without weapons, how casually he deals with bureaucracy to obtain what he desires (Need to get into Ryker's to give a hero you respect and admire a fighting chance? Murder the nearest disposable S.O.B.), and how complete Punisher's skill set seems to be (not everybody can fly a helicopter, for instance).

Frank's a talented man!

just not a fan of character wank is all. felt the same way about hudlins panther, millers batman etc

Agreed.
Character wank is bad enough on the forum, but when the creators themselves do it, well, you get some really awful threads.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
just not a fan of character wank is all. felt the same way about hudlins panther, millers batman etc

Outside of Year One, which I really like, I find most of Miller's Batman sorely overrated.

Frank dies a horrible death

Originally posted by -Pr-
Outside of Year One, which I really like, I find most of Miller's Batman sorely overrated.

Yeah, but it's all about the other heroes. I mean,All Star Batman is as fair and balanced to other characters as Ennis's Punisher.

He is the comic book George Lucas at the height of his career with the prequels.

And can you imagine an Ennis/Miller crossover?

Say, in an eight issue mini, Garth does the first four for Castle or Hitman or someone crossing over with the Dark Knight, and Frank finish's up the tail end.

Just imagine.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Punisher should have enough sense to try attacks specifically tailored to attack the electrical systems of Vader's life support suit.

Magnetic mines and electro magnetic pulses (EMPs) come immediately to mind.
Tell me why the following should or would not happen to Vader.

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564697_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564698_image.jpg


https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564699_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564700_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564701_image.jpg


https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564702_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564703_image.jpg

https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564704_image.jpg https://s7d3.turboimg.net/t1/38564705_image.jpg

Sources: Darth Vader #s 23 and 24, Volume 1
Circa: 2016

While that trick did work for a moment...

IIRC, Vader used the Force to allow him to move again and killed Cylo, impaling him with his lightsaber?

Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, but it's all about the other heroes. I mean,All Star Batman is as fair and balanced to other characters as Ennis's Punisher.

He is the comic book George Lucas at the height of his career with the prequels.

I'm not sure I follow. You're saying they treat other characters like shit, right? I'd agree with that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm not sure I follow. You're saying they treat other characters like shit, right? I'd agree with that.



I bet in my Ennis/Miller idea, Ennis would totally have Superman beat the snot out of Batman.

Then him and Castle would just tool around the fortress for the rest of the mini.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
While that trick did work for a moment...

IIRC, Vader used the Force to allow him to move again and killed Cylo, impaling him with his lightsaber?


Roughly 10 pages later?

Yes.

Thanks.

Plenty of time to act, then.

Ten pages?!?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Outside of Year One, which I really like, I find most of Miller's Batman sorely overrated.

i always consindered writers pet projects as elseworlds issues

Hmm.

Originally posted by riv6672
Ten pages?!?

I know, right?

If Vader wasn't immobilized for at least 20, what's the point?

To be fair, joking aside, most of the pages we're shown depict Vader's inner thoughts before he finally counters Cylo; it's possible the writer intended that to reflect a rather short time in the "real" world, especially if you take the stance that, with his life support system now shut down, Vader was seeing his life flashing before his eyes.

---

I'm taking note of the number of Pym particle showings and mentions in Frank's books. It doesn't seem to be a one-off thing. Given that a hero group like the Avengers likely wouldn't freely give tech to someone as unfortunately murderous as Frank, this STRONGLY suggests he has extensive contacts for any resources he wants to obtain.

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38571122_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38571123_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38571124_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38571125_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38571126_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38571127_image.jpg

Bluewaterrider,coming from this side of the debate, it's good to have you on my team/be on your team.

For once

But yes. This is a stomp in Castle's favor, mainly because prep threaa are limited by a: posters imaginations, b: the preppers intelligence, and c: what resources the prepper has access to.

A is pretty solid.
B is solid.
C is making this a stomp.

D how many times all of the above has to be explained to no avail

Ok, so with full prep this is a stomp.

What if Castle was nerfed to bringing in whatever he usually travels around with? Still gets initiative, but he can't go getting exotic tech or one offs.

Well that would be a whole different and much shorter thread then, cdtm.

Different due to the changed stips.
Shorter because the posters backing Frank in -this- thread wouldnt deny/need to have the reason Frank loses explained for 5 pages.

I retract my statement.

Lets pretend it was never said.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
---

I'm taking note of the number of Pym particle showings and mentions in Frank's books. It doesn't seem to be a one-off thing. Given that a hero group like the Avengers likely wouldn't freely give tech to someone as unfortunately murderous as Frank, this STRONGLY suggests he has extensive contacts for any resources he wants to obtain.


Well, if you read the series, you'll see that he got all that by robbing one of Avengers' armories during the time when Osborn was the new "Nick Fury", director of H.A.M.M.E.R. (S.H.I.E.L.D. replacement), leading the official Avengers team.

Hardly the first time he was stealing stuff or had an access to some supertech, though.

Originally posted by cdtm
I retract my statement.

Lets pretend it was never said.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
i always consindered writers pet projects as elseworlds issues

Nothing wrong with that; I think most of us have our own headcanons when it comes to the characters we like anyway.

Pretty much, which is why those showings cant be omitted.

Originally posted by deathslash

Vader can still crush ...
even if he can't see (Frank) ...
and his range at least extends to orbit.



Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How would Vader deal with sound attacks?

I understand he can deflect/block bullets etc, deflect explosions....but if Force users need concentration, sonics would be the way to go.


I'm surprised D.S. put the sound card on the table before me.
Perhaps seeing Klaw's equipment on Frank afforded him a head start.

I'm of the mind Vader needs concentration to work his magic too, and the following would seem to confirm that.
I must admit I was impressed with the degree of fine "motor" control they've accorded Skywalker, even from his early days as Vader, as here, recovering inside a bacta tank, they show him with skills that would make armchair fliers and auto-mechanics envious ...

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/38584733_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/38584734_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/38584735_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/38584736_image.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/38584737_image.jpg

Source: Darth Vader #6, Volume 2
Circa: 2017

Frank seems to have access to an incredible amount of stuff.
I was reading a little ago where he pulled out one of Dr. Octavius's tentacles, shrunk and then enlarged by Pym particles, to waylay a mind-controlled Spider-Man.

Actually, inasmuch as Stark Industries Tech Frank is fun to think about, REALLY interesting scenarios start occurring if Frank has proven Wakandan tech at his disposal. T'Challa's stuff is even a good VISUAL match for Frank, besides the motif of "dark hunter of evil men" already at play there.

Giger homages aside, the little I've read for the upcoming "New Celestials" storyline suggests a fighter geared like T'Challa might give Vader a run for his money even in a random encounter, let alone in the type of match we're discussing here:

https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38584845_image.jpg

Source: Can't recall at the moment
Circa: 2018

This shit annoys me to no end.

Everybody has access to ****ing everything nowadays.

Or the Internet.

Welcome to 2010.

Originally posted by krisblaze
This shit annoys me to no end.

Everybody has access to ****ing everything nowadays.

I know its non canon, but Wade having Pym particles in Deathstroke Kills the Marvel Universe was funny.

Makes you wonder where guys like him and Castle get their stuff. No way Pym, Stark, or T'challa would allow their tech to reach the black market, so there's an untold story of a dealer/mole waiting to be told.

I mean, imagine if everyone and their mother had Bat Tech, or Nth metal, or a Mother Box. It ain't happening.

Originally posted by deathslash
....none of that stuff (that Frank was wearing in Suicide Kings) would enable him to kill vader.

Originally posted by riv6672
Sooooooo, maybe he uses different stuff?

I'm not 100% convinced Klaw's weapon alone wouldn't be enough to handle Vader. I seem to recall even the first time I read of Klaw in Secret Wars that he had the ability to create sound constructs with his hand blaster. There Klaw needed a portion of Doom's stolen Beyonder-power to make the constructs real.
It seems that might have been a demotion from how formidable the blaster constructs were originally intended to be. Imagine how surprised I was to see what Klaw could do, and did, in his first known appearance:

https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/38584863_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/38584864_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/38584865_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/38584866_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/38584867_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/38584868_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/38584869_image.jpg https://s7d5.turboimg.net/t1/38584870_image.jpg

Note the ability of Klaw's sound constructs to reflect BACK the force applied by the attacker. This has some VERY interesting implications for how a match against an evil Jedi might go ...

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584909_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584910_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584911_image.jpg

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584912_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584913_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584914_image.jpg

https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584915_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584916_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38584917_image.jpg

Source: Fantastic Four #53
Circa: ~1965

Yeah, i know, i was just saying the scan proved Fank can bring a variety of esoteric weaponry into play, mot necessarily just what he was shiwn with.

But now everybody knows!

That's the power of that "internet" thing I was talking about!

Originally posted by deathslash
I honestly doubt that it would work. His armor is still made out of durasteel and it's allowed him to shrug off being inside of a weapons facility as its reactor went critical, survive an ancient sith battleship blowing up underneath him,and tank two AT-ST'S falling on him.


As I've said before in numerous threads, and proved to some extent with the first Black Panther versus Klaw showing in Fantastic Four #53 above, sonics in comicdom are a very special class of weaponry. Klaw's device(s) alone wrecked a building under construction, the super-powered Wrecking Crew, and the Human Torch and Ben, all of which you can see from earlier in this thread.

I think Klaw's tech all by itself, which Punisher was already shown having and using, would be sufficient, but I wanted to make people aware of just how durable an opponent sonics can take down in the MCU:



https://s7d8.turboimg.net/t1/38585003_image.jpg

... with some background material for context:





https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37215251_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37215252_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37215253_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37215254_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37215255_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37215256_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37215257_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/37215258_image.jpg

Source: Uncanny X-Men #194
Circa: early 1980s

Counterpoint ...

Inasmuch as I believe sonics in their various shapes and forms have an almost unparalleled rate of success in the comic world, I would be remiss if I did not say on rare occasion, and especially recently, I HAVE come across instances where they either failed or were dealt with in such a way that good tech or prep or foresight were able to neutralize them.

Foremost on my mind is the following instance, taken from the relatively short-lived "Superior Iron Man" title:


https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619273_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619274_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619275_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619276_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619277_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619278_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619279_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619280_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619281_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619282_image.jpg

Here Pepper finds (Extremis-influenced?) Tony regards sonics, unlike most of the rest of the Marvel Universe, enough of a threat to incorporate safeguards against them in his most advanced armors:


https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619318_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619319_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619320_image.jpg https://s7d4.turboimg.net/t1/38619321_image.jpg

Originally posted by krisblaze

Everybody has access to ... everything nowadays.


https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38619503_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38619504_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38619505_image.jpg https://s7d6.turboimg.net/t1/38619507_image.jpg

We still doing this?

Its interesting, at least.