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who is better, in terms of..
1.intelligence
2.tactics
3.hth skill

use feats to support your argument please.

Surfer by far.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Surfer by far.

did you even read the op?

post them feats my boy

Superman across the board.

Originally posted by panthergod
Superman across the board.

what an ignorant superman fanboy sound like

Superman's more of a brute fighter, guy always charges into fights.

..compared to punching bag Surfer. Ok.

Surfer definitely didn't run into Mjolnir and Stormbreaker. Lmaooo

Originally posted by panthergod
Surfer definitely didn't run into Mjolnir and Stormbreaker. Lmaooo

Superman got one-shotted by some fodder name Titus. Didnt see no "tactical" thinking there, meanwhile surfer manhandled Champion

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Superman got one-shotted by some fodder name Titus. Didnt see no "tactical" thinking there, meanwhile surfer manhandled Champion

..so..?

Surfer can't even defeat Hank Henshaw.. Who Superman 4 shots under the same longtime Surfer writer Marz...

3/4 times A Superman directly outperforms Surfer with ease..

Surfer has nothing even close to Superman in any respect for brains tactics or skill.

But lets see those showings so I can laugh.

Superman.

Originally posted by panthergod
Surfer definitely didn't run into Mjolnir and Stormbreaker. Lmaooo Surfer wins.

sooooo.

how about we stick to the confines of the thread....

Originally posted by panthergod
..so..?

Surfer can't even defeat Hank Henshaw.. Who Superman 4 shots under the same longtime Surfer writer Marz...

3/4 times A Superman directly outperforms Surfer with ease..

Surfer has nothing even close to Superman in any respect for brains tactics or skill.

But lets see those showings so I can laugh.

Sure, Champion's one. for example

Superman sweeps him.

memorizing the miracle machine is supposed to be impressive?

Marvel Fantards are reduced to trolling exclusively at this point.

Superman sweeps.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
This.

Originally posted by quanchi112


Was his post in response to a "Superman wins"?

Pffft, I should have known...

Originally posted by cdtm
Pffft, I should have known... He is more durable, more versatility, more powerful, etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He is more durable, more versatility, more powerful, etc.

..Yet can't beat Henshaw, Superman's inferior Thor, and can't beat Darkseid, Superman's physical peer, with help from Thor.

Originally posted by panthergod
..Yet can't beat Henshaw, Superman's inferior Thor, and can't beat Darkseid, Superman's physical peer, with help from Thor.



Surfer trashed the same Orion who's equal to Superman in strength in that same crossover. Not that it's CANON anyway

Temptation gets the best of me.

Surfer fights for his life against Class 5 Spider-Man, well below Venom.

90's Spider-Man chumped Surfer w/ Carnarge symbiote.

Spidey also chumps Surfer's superior Thor, and wrecks his combat skill superior Firelord.

Try again.

Should've called Hulk

Hulk would have saved Superman too. When damsels need help call in the brute.

What can't I handle? Venom hels his own against Juggernat during that era.

Kalibak was enhanced well above Orion physically in the lead up to DOTNG/Countdown and hit Superman, specifically stated to be superior to him and Mantis together, with a sucker shot via the Beta Club.

Orion comes in with the Astro Harness with killing intent. Superman previously tanked an all out to the death Orion and physically outperformed him against Source amped Infinity Man, who annihilated Orion's body via raw power yet couldn't even KO Superman.

That series is among the best Superman power/formidability portrayals. Try again.

Originally posted by panthergod
What can't I handle? Venom hels his own against Juggernat during that era.

Kalibak was enhanced well above Orion physically in the leadup to DOTNG/Countdown and hit Superman, specifically stated to be supoerior to him and Mantis together, witha sucker shot via the Beta Club.

Orion comes in with the Astro Harness with killing intent. Superman previously tanked an all out to the death Orion and physically outperformed him against Source amped Infinity Man, who annihilated Orion's body via raw power yet couldn't even KO Superman.

That series is among the best Superman power/formidability portrayals. Try again. :lol

DOTNG isnt even canon

Surfer and Thor have been humiliated by far less, so yeah.

He absolutely was enhanced, and it's not debatable. You dont read comics? Not my problem.

Thor, Surfer's superior by far, needed to be saved from Superman. Surfer and Thor together can't beat Superman's peer. Oh, and Thanos failed to dominate Lobo HTH and resorted to EP like a pussy. keep crying about that fact.

Originally posted by panthergod
Surfer and Thor have been humiliated by far less, so yeah.

He absolutely was enhanced, and it's not debatable. You dont read comics? Not my problem.

Thor, Surfer's superior by far, needed to be saved from Superman. Surfer and Thor together can't beat Superman's peer. Oh, and Thanos failed to dominate Lobo HTH and resorted to EP like a pussy. keep crying about that fact.

Why are you relying on non canon crossovers? on panel canon comics a good written Surfer would stomp Darkseid. worse than Supes.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Why are you relying on non canon crossovers? on panel canon comics a good written Surfer would stomp Darkseid. worse than Supes.

Couldn't care less about Marvel fantard delusion to justify lying about facts you dont like.

On panel Surfer got stomped by Darkseid multiple times, is nowhere near Darkseid in any respect, and Superman is far beyond Surfer in raw power and combat formidability-- and that's just Pre IC/Flashpoint, let alone current post Reborn merged Superman, who definitely tears any Herald apart easily.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Why are you relying on non canon crossovers? on panel canon comics a good written Surfer would stomp Darkseid. worse than Supes.
Based on?

Originally posted by panthergod
Couldn't care less about Marvel fantard delusion to justify lying about facts you dont like.

On panel Surfer got stomped by Darkseid multiple times, is nowhere near Darkseid in any respect, and Superman is far beyond Surfer in raw power and combat formidability-- and that's just Pre IC/Flashpoint, let alone current post Reborn merged Superman, who definitely tears any Herald apart easily.

I highly disagree with that notion.

Surfer has never been stomped by Darkseid. He is sucker shotted by him once.

Originally posted by panthergod
Surfer and Thor have been humiliated by far less, so yeah.

He absolutely was enhanced, and it's not debatable. You dont read comics? Not my problem.

Thor, Surfer's superior by far, needed to be saved from Superman. Surfer and Thor together can't beat Superman's peer. Oh, and Thanos failed to dominate Lobo HTH and resorted to EP like a pussy. keep crying about that fact.

Darkseid resorts to EP against Thor and Surfer. He resorts to a sucker EP against Surfer. So he must be a bigger pussy.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
I highly disagree with that notion.
Who cares?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Who cares?

Obviously you do since you replied to it. nice job, you just played ya self son

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Darkseid resorts to EP against Thor and Surfer. He resorts to a sucker EP against Surfer. So he must be a bigger pussy.

Darkseid out-muscles Thor and Surfer's physical superiors with one arm easily, but yeah, He's a boss, not a adolescent emo lovesick brute like Thanos, so he doesn't need to get his hands dirty with puny small world peasants if it isn't necessary.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
I highly disagree with that notion.

Feel free to delude yourself about what the comics make irrefutable.

Originally posted by panthergod
Darkseid out-muscles Thor and Surfer's physical superiors with one arm easily, but yeah, He's a boss, not a adolescent emo lovesick brute like Thanos, so he doesn't need to get his hands dirty with puny small world peasants if it isn't necessary.

Thanos does better agains a nourished Galactus than Darkseid does against a starving Galactus.

Originally posted by Baziemarc123
Obviously you do since you replied to it. nice job, you just played ya self son
I care by saying who cares?

You're a confused individual.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Thanos does better agains a nourished Galactus than Darkseid does against a starving Galactus.
so more lies..?

Darkseid directly defeated Galactus with a literal thought's worth of raw power output -- Apokolips is a reflection of his innate power via the Omega Force, per Byrne, who has him outputting more power than Apokolips does in a year to manipulate it from the Source Wall. so with virtually zero effort/power output whatsoever-- and Galactus exclusively resisted being BFR'd from space/time by the guy who established that he is essential to space-time.

Galactus blasted Darkseid backwards into a building and ripped his clothes, though.

Oh, and that was a younger past Darkseid nowhere near as powerful as modern Darkseid, who absorbed multiple pantheons worth of power in the meanwhile per Byrne.

Again, modern era he can exceed the entire planet of Apkolips' yearly power output within moments , where a mere fraction of the planet empowered by a mere thought's worth of power output from a much less powerful Darkseid -- all established on panel by the same writer-- humbled Galactus.

Try again.

Yes, they have.

bullets, chains , soup and sledgehammers. and Spider-Man.



That's nice. in Kalibak's prior appearance in the leadup to Countdown/DoTNG he mauled Orion HTH.


Surfer, Firelord and Thor get chumped by Spider-Man, Venom's inferior at that point.


Darkseid has conquered the multiverse.

Is one puny small universe supposed to be impressive or something..? lmao.



Even as a teen Darksied was defeating Skyfather Zeus in super-speed combat, while Thanos gets beat up by the Thing and Carol ****ing Danvers.

ok, can a mod just close this thread? its clear the trolls have made everything go to absolute shit.

Originally posted by ghostman
ok, can a mod just close this thread? its clear the trolls have made everything go to absolute shit.

Translation: you can't handle anti DC BS being dismantled so you're whining to mods like a child. if you dont want to discuss or debate, GTFO.

Originally posted by ghostman
who is better, in terms of..
1.intelligence
2.tactics
3.hth skill

use feats to support your argument please.

Basic physics.

https://pm1.narvii.com/6077/6d61a96ce45b3ce8fb94f23f7926f7b2261be3e8_hq.jpg

There. Now the next side goes.

Originally posted by panthergod
Yes, they have.

bullets, chains , soup and sledgehammers. and Spider-Man.



That's nice. in Kalibak's prior appearance in the leadup to Countdown/DoTNG he mauled Orion HTH.


Surfer, Firelord and Thor get chumped by Spider-Man, Venom's inferior at that point.


Darkseid has conquered the multiverse.

Is one puny small universe supposed to be impressive or something..? lmao.



Even as a teen Darksied was defeating Skyfather Zeus in super-speed combat, while Thanos gets beat up by the Thing and Carol ****ing Danvers.

DS is beat up by the batkick and resently by Diana solo.

Hey guys. You're making ghostman cry.

Originally posted by ghostman
who is better, in terms of..
1.intelligence
2.tactics
3.hth skill 1. I'm not sure who would, say, score higher on an IQ test, but Superman has historically shown great *creativity* with his (compared to Surfer's) limited powerset; whereas Surfer OTOH -- probably because he has such a huge/varied powerset, and thus writing stories could be tougher -- is typically PISed/CISed down to simply zipping around hurling cosmic bolts or raising forcefields. Occasionally he does something *exotic*, but I don't see this necessarily as an *intelligence* thing (tactical?).

I suppose one could argue that something like molecular rearrangement requires great intelligence (ie, knowing how to place all those molecules), but generally such a power is not seen this way.

2. Tactics IMO is related to intelligence, and again I give Superman the edge here because of his limited powerset. Generally, what seems to occur in comics is that, those with less use it better; those with more use it worse, this dynamic largely determined by story circumstances or apparent writer intent.

3. C'mon. H2H is Superman's thing, especially compared to Surfer. Soarin' Norrin has had his surprisingly great moments, but H2H proficiency, between these two, belongs to Superman.

In conclusion -- and I'm not saying this was necessarily done deliberately -- but it seems these 3 traits, from the onset, were picked to favor Superman. How about, Who's better at pacifistic monologuing?

((Sorry I didn't post any scans, but 1) my comments were broad brushstrokes, and 2) I'm too lazy.))

Another example of skill and intelligence with a limited powerset, as noted by Mindship.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123129/3437533-1354743023-26441.jpg

The thing that makes this unfair is, Surfer doesn't have to get fancy with his powers, change frequencies, etc... his abilities just allows him to do it. Whatever it is that needs to be done, he can just will it to happen. He doesn't need to be tactical because there is no need for it. If he wants to stop a forest fire without a single person receiving a scratch, put a shield over them and turn into rain. I know that is a bad example but I'm sure you all get the point. He is a character that can do anything whereas Superman doesn't have a choice but to utilize his powers in a certain way. That is the difference here. We are talking about a guy that can look your way and snatch your soul out. A guy that turned to snow and was talking to everyone that was around him. A guy that can grant you powers, go back in time, see in the future, transfer his feelings across a planet, create black holes, create LIFE. This is an uncalled for thread because the level of power here is completely different. Surfer IS the definition of a being with God like powers.

You're just mad they didn't compare Surfer vs Hulk Carv.

Here, Superman is able to perfectly calibrate the right dosage of microwave radiation needed to cure people, without giving them cancer:
https://m.imgur.com/a/3uMpW

But it's not just limited to his HV! Here he uses his super shout and super hearing:
https://m.imgur.com/a/ShNNz

I note Carver's complaint that Surfer has no showings, because he doesn't need to.

That's a fair point. How about h2h skill? Surfer has DEFINITELY gone punching in his fights. How is his skill there?

Superman (trained by WW and Bats):
https://m.imgur.com/a/5plLw

And again:
https://m.imgur.com/a/xb6CV

Originally posted by Bentley
You're just mad they didn't compare Surfer vs Hulk Carv.



How did you know?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here, Superman is able to perfectly calibrate the right dosage of microwave radiation needed to cure people, without giving them cancer:
https://m.imgur.com/a/3uMpW

But it's not just limited to his HV! Here he uses his super shout and super hearing:
https://m.imgur.com/a/ShNNz

I note Carver's complaint that Surfer has no showings, because he doesn't need to.

That's a fair point. How about h2h skill? Surfer has DEFINITELY gone punching in his fights. How is his skill there?

Superman (trained by WW and Bats):
https://m.imgur.com/a/5plLw

And again:
https://m.imgur.com/a/xb6CV

So Surfer doesn't need intelligence nor tactics?

Originally posted by Bentley
So Surfer doesn't need intelligence nor tactics?

Never said that.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Another example of skill and intelligence with a limited powerset, as noted by Mindship.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123129/3437533-1354743023-26441.jpg

It's cute when comic book writers try and apply scientific principles to stories about a man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes.

Lol the recent one with Mjolnir was pretty funny.

Originally posted by cdtm
It's cute when comic book writers try and apply scientific principles to stories about a man who can shoot lasers out of his eyes.

Dont tell me you dont believe supes could do that..

Originally posted by panthergod
so more lies..?

Darkseid directly defeated Galactus with a literal thought's worth of raw power output -- Apokolips is a reflection of his innate power via the Omega Force, per Byrne, who has him outputting more power than Apokolips does in a year to manipulate it from the Source Wall. so with virtually zero effort/power output whatsoever-- and Galactus exclusively resisted being BFR'd from space/time by the guy who established that he is essential to space-time.

Galactus blasted Darkseid backwards into a building and ripped his clothes, though.

Oh, and that was a younger past Darkseid nowhere near as powerful as modern Darkseid, who absorbed multiple pantheons worth of power in the meanwhile per Byrne.

Again, modern era he can exceed the entire planet of Apkolips' yearly power output within moments , where a mere fraction of the planet empowered by a mere thought's worth of power output from a much less powerful Darkseid -- all established on panel by the same writer-- humbled Galactus.

Try again.

My man, you're certifiably insane. Darkseid was nothing compared to Galactus in power, and Bryne noted that he had significantly weaken Galactus for Apokolips to not be wiped out by making him hungry. Even still, he was far above Darkseid.

You can compare Darkseid vs. Galactus as a whole separately, but arguing that their crossover (Which isn't even usable on this board) is anything but Power Cosmic >>>>> Darkseid and Apokolips is insane.

And we are way off topic.

Originally posted by panthergod
Translation: you can't handle anti DC BS being dismantled so you're whining to mods like a child. if you dont want to discuss or debate, GTFO.

what in the **** are you talking about child? i asked for three simple things and you and all the other sodomites are bringing up nonsense about cyborg superman and darkseid. this thread is about
1.intellect
2.tactics
3.hth

and you couldn't even get that right. time to have a seat bottom boy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
My man, you're certifiably insane. Darkseid was nothing compared to Galactus in power, and Bryne noted that he had significantly weaken Galactus for Apokolips to not be wiped out by making him hungry. Even still, he was far above Darkseid.

You can compare Darkseid vs. Galactus as a whole separately, but arguing that their crossover (Which isn't even usable on this board) is anything but Power Cosmic >>>>> Darkseid and Apokolips is insane.

Originally posted by ghostman
what in the **** are you talking about child? i asked for three simple things and you and all the other sodomites are bringing up nonsense about cyborg superman and darkseid. this thread is about
1.intellect
2.tactics
3.hth

and you couldn't even get that right. time to have a seat bottom boy.

Hey now.

I am on topic with scans