Thragg vs Zod

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krisblaze
These badboys go at it.

riv6672

deathslash
Thragg 7/10

carver9
Thragg stomps tbh.

abhilegend
Zod beats Thragg face in.

riv6672
^^^finally, a REASONABLE poster.

Enzeru
Originally posted by carver9

Thragg stomps tbh.

Can you back that up, please? Because in my opinion Zod literally oneshots Thragg.

Invincible was a 30 tonner at the beginning and fighting adult Viltrumites. More powerful ones were +100 tonners, but nothing really implied "incalculable" high herald level strenght. At best top tier Viltrumites are low heralds.

It took 3 Viltrumites to destroy a planet. And they still needed help first in form of someone shooting them the way free into the ground. If that hadn't happened first, they would have probably died upon impact with the planet - according to their own admission.

Does anyone here see Zod crashing into a planet and dying in process? I don't. Mid herald bricks have the durability to survive that.

deathslash
Originally posted by Enzeru
Can you back that up, please? Because in my opinion Zod literally oneshots Thragg.

Invincible was a 30 tonner at the beginning and fighting adult Viltrumites. More powerful ones were +100 tonners, but nothing really implied "incalculable" high herald level strenght. At best top tier Viltrumites are low heralds.

It took 3 Viltrumites to destroy a planet. And they still needed help first in form of someone shooting them the way free into the ground. If that hadn't happened first, they would have probably died upon impact with the planet - according to their own admission.

Does anyone here see Zod crashing into a planet and dying in process? I don't. Mid herald bricks have the durability to survive that. this is lowballing of the highest order.

Invincible's beginning strength shouldn't matter and even then, he was significantly stronger than the thirty ton range.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350679-invincible+feat+strength+lifts+pillar+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350680-invincible+feat+strength+lifts+pillar+%282%29.png

Hell, before he even started working out, he was explicitly stated/shown to be able to casually bench 400 tons.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350674-invincible+feat+strength+400+tons+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350675-invincible+feat+strength+400+tons+%282%29.png

As for other Viltrimites, let's look at one of the more noteworthy ones. Here we can see Conquest (who almost killed Invincible) is encased in 400 tons of steel while he heals from his injuries. Pay attention to what's being said here:

https://m.imgur.com/a/8A2ZslH

Wait a second, did he just casually move 400 tons in addition to the six miles of solid rock that fell on him?

A planet that we have no idea of the size of. For all we know, Viltrum was the size of Mars. We do however know that it would have to be significantly more dense than earth in order for beings like the Viltrumites to live on it. You're also ignoring that Thragg hilariously outclassed those "three Viltrumites".
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395169-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395170-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%282%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395171-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%283%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395173-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%285%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395174-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%286%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395175-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%287%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395176-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%288%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395177-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%289%29.png

Would you look at that? It looks like Thragg actually owned four Viltrumites including Allen and Battle Beast.

Nobody thinks that Thragg would die on impact with a planet because he was leagues above those three. You're also ignoring that he literally tanked the shockwave/explosion of the planet.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397322-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%283%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397323-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%284%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397324-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%285%29.png

But yeah, he's clearly low herald at best.
laughing out loud

quanchi112
Owned.

zopzop
Zod 10/10. He's actually fought established characters.

cdtm
If this gets taken to the sun...

panthergod
This is a dann good fight and its idiotic to say otherwise. Thragg is stronger but less durable and vulnerable to high intensity hv. Zod 6/10.

CosmicComet
400 tons? That's it?

How much stronger does Mark get than that later on?

Even if Thragg is 1 million times stronger than that, he still isn't close to Zod in strength.

carver9
Originally posted by deathslash
this is lowballing of the highest order.

Invincible's beginning strength shouldn't matter and even then, he was significantly stronger than the thirty ton range.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350679-invincible+feat+strength+lifts+pillar+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350680-invincible+feat+strength+lifts+pillar+%282%29.png

Hell, before he even started working out, he was explicitly stated/shown to be able to casually bench 400 tons.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350674-invincible+feat+strength+400+tons+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350675-invincible+feat+strength+400+tons+%282%29.png

As for other Viltrimites, let's look at one of the more noteworthy ones. Here we can see Conquest (who almost killed Invincible) is encased in 400 tons of steel while he heals from his injuries. Pay attention to what's being said here:

https://m.imgur.com/a/8A2ZslH

Wait a second, did he just casually move 400 tons in addition to the six miles of solid rock that fell on him?

A planet that we have no idea of the size of. For all we know, Viltrum was the size of Mars. We do however know that it would have to be significantly more dense than earth in order for beings like the Viltrumites to live on it. You're also ignoring that Thragg hilariously outclassed those "three Viltrumites".
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395169-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395170-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%282%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395171-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%283%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395173-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%285%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395174-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%286%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395175-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%287%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395176-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%288%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395177-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%289%29.png

Would you look at that? It looks like Thragg actually owned four Viltrumites including Allen and Battle Beast.

Nobody thinks that Thragg would die on impact with a planet because he was leagues above those three. You're also ignoring that he literally tanked the shockwave/explosion of the planet.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397322-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%283%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397323-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%284%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397324-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%285%29.png

But yeah, he's clearly low herald at best.
laughing out loud

This is ownage of the highest order.

deathslash
Originally posted by CosmicComet
400 tons? That's it?

How much stronger does Mark get than that later on?

Even if Thragg is 1 million times stronger than that, he still isn't close to Zod in strength. four hundred tons wasn't his upper strength level though. That was his starting strength. Anyway, mark was as strong as Conquest by his second fight with him and Conquest moved four hundred tons in addition to the six miles of rock on top of his head so......yeah.

Also, when Mark beat Conquest for the second time, he was just a little bit under Nolan as far as strength and Nolan, Mark, Thaddeus, Battle Beast, and Omni-boy got absolutely raped by Thragg.

carver9
Originally posted by CosmicComet
400 tons? That's it?

How much stronger does Mark get than that later on?

Even if Thragg is 1 million times stronger than that, he still isn't close to Zod in strength.

What's Zod best strength ft?

RealityWarper
Thragg punches clean through Zod.

Zack M
Zod beats him worse than Hank.

Zack M
Originally posted by deathslash
this is lowballing of the highest order.

Invincible's beginning strength shouldn't matter and even then, he was significantly stronger than the thirty ton range.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350679-invincible+feat+strength+lifts+pillar+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350680-invincible+feat+strength+lifts+pillar+%282%29.png

Hell, before he even started working out, he was explicitly stated/shown to be able to casually bench 400 tons.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350674-invincible+feat+strength+400+tons+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3350675-invincible+feat+strength+400+tons+%282%29.png

As for other Viltrimites, let's look at one of the more noteworthy ones. Here we can see Conquest (who almost killed Invincible) is encased in 400 tons of steel while he heals from his injuries. Pay attention to what's being said here:

https://m.imgur.com/a/8A2ZslH

Wait a second, did he just casually move 400 tons in addition to the six miles of solid rock that fell on him?

A planet that we have no idea of the size of. For all we know, Viltrum was the size of Mars. We do however know that it would have to be significantly more dense than earth in order for beings like the Viltrumites to live on it. You're also ignoring that Thragg hilariously outclassed those "three Viltrumites".
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395169-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395170-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%282%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395171-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%283%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395173-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%285%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395174-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%286%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395175-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%287%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395176-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%288%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395177-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%289%29.png

Would you look at that? It looks like Thragg actually owned four Viltrumites including Allen and Battle Beast.

Nobody thinks that Thragg would die on impact with a planet because he was leagues above those three. You're also ignoring that he literally tanked the shockwave/explosion of the planet.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397322-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%283%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397323-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%284%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397324-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%285%29.png

But yeah, he's clearly low herald at best.
laughing out loud

That's it? Zod stalemated Superman, who benched the weight of an entire planet. These two are not even close in terms of strength.

quanchi112

RealityWarper

Zack M
Yeah, Thragg isn't all too impressive.

Baziemarc123
Zod probably wins tbh

leonidas
i don't know thragg at all, but based on those scans hard to fathom him being anywhere near zod/superman level. /shrug

deathslash
Originally posted by Zack M
That's it? Zod stalemated Superman, who benched the weight of an entire planet. These two are not even close in terms of strength. *sigh

And suddenly, out comes Golgo with the measuring tape and his hands all lubed up for handling dicks. He also hilariously failed to kill any of the suicide squad and got raped by Wonder Woman even while he had Faora's help.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't know thragg at all, but based on those scans hard to fathom him being anywhere near zod/superman level. /shrug
Keep in mind, Omni-man fought Supreme to a double knock out. This same fight was referenced as being canon by Kirkman himself. Thrag was still leagues above Omni-man though.

Thragg>>>>>>Omni-man≥Supreme

Zack M
So, basically nothing. Zod, FTW. Because in order to beat Thragg, he needs to kill the Suicide Squad. I've read it all.

Khazra Reborn
Kneel before Thragg.

celeyhyga17
Interesting fight. Does Zod get two suns?

Zack M
Zod wins 10/10 with one sun.

carver9
Zack, do you ever debate or do you just say DC wins?

quanchi112
Originally posted by carver9
Zack, do you ever debate or do you just say DC wins? thumb up

krisblaze
Originally posted by CosmicComet
400 tons? That's it?

How much stronger does Mark get than that later on?

Even if Thragg is 1 million times stronger than that, he still isn't close to Zod in strength.

400 million tons isn't close to Zod? lmao

abhilegend
Originally posted by deathslash
*sigh

And suddenly, out comes Golgo with the measuring tape and his hands all lubed up for handling dicks. He also hilariously failed to kill any of the suicide squad and got raped by Wonder Woman even while he had Faora's help.


Keep in mind, Omni-man fought Supreme to a double knock out. This same fight was referenced as being canon by Kirkman himself. Thrag was still leagues above Omni-man though.

Thragg>>>>>>Omni-man≥Supreme
Zod literally punched Henshaw body in half, punched holes in Eradicator, tanked combined attacks from Enchantress, Henshaw and Eradicator and beat them all.

He literally no sold Kyle merged with Hal's ring who was leaking enough energy to blow Mogo up and beat him down like nothing.

Current Zod would break Thragg in half.

abhilegend
Originally posted by krisblaze
400 million tons isn't close to Zod? lmao
Even a rookie Lantern like Jessica can hold far more weight.

https://s1.postimg.cc/1wkhpgpkm3/014_0017.jpg

That's 1.5 sextillion kgs.

Later she held the entire planet together.

https://static2.cbrimages.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/GLS-34-1.jpg
https://static2.cbrimages.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/GLS-34-2.jpg

Inside a supernova.

zopzop
Originally posted by krisblaze
400 million tons isn't close to Zod? lmao
No, it's not. Zod held his own against a character that lifted a weight equivalent to the weight of the Earth. That's a phuck ton more than 400 million tons.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Even a rookie Lantern like Jessica can hold far more weight.

https://s1.postimg.cc/1wkhpgpkm3/014_0017.jpg

That's 1.5 sextillion kgs.

Or 1.5E+20 TONS.

Zack M
Originally posted by zopzop
No, it's not. Zod held his own against a character that lifted a weight equivalent to the weight of the Earth. That's a phuck ton more than 400 million tons.

Or 1.5E+20 TONS.

That's what I'm saying. Thragg has some cute feats, but they just don't compare to top tier kryptonains.

zopzop
Originally posted by Zack M
That's what I'm saying. Thragg has some cute feats, but they just don't compare to top tier kryptonains.
Forget top tier Kryptonians. Even noob GL's have feats that sh|t all over Thragg.

Zack M
Originally posted by abhilegend
Zod literally punched Henshaw body in half, punched holes in Eradicator, tanked combined attacks from Enchantress, Henshaw and Eradicator and beat them all.

He literally no sold Kyle merged with Hal's ring who was leaking enough energy to blow Mogo up and beat him down like nothing.

Current Zod would break Thragg in half.

Don't forget that it's the SAME Enchantress they solod the entire Justice League, including Superman. Zod is a beast.

Zack M
Originally posted by zopzop
Forget top tier Kryptonians. Even noob GL's have feats that sh|t all over Thragg.

I'd also put guys like Black Adam and Captain Marvel above Thragg .

zopzop
Originally posted by Zack M
I'd also put guys like Black Adam and Captain Marvel above Thragg .
Me too. Like I've said before, they have a history against established characters.

deathslash
Originally posted by krisblaze
400 million tons isn't close to Zod? lmao thumb up the problem with the vast majority of those that are supporting Zod seems to be that they're getting caught up on Mark's starting strength. Meanwhile, they completely ignore that Conquest lifted that weight in addition to six motherphucking miles of solid rock. They just disregard the fact that Omni-man was clearly Supreme's equal. Just ignore that Mark was implied to be one of the strongest people in existence. What's that, Mark shrugged off multiple hits from Solar Man (another characters that's stated to be the equal of Supreme)? Nobody cares.

They then either don't know or just straight up ignore that Omni-man, Mark, Thaddeus, Battle Beast, and Allen were all roughly as strong as if not a little bit stronger than Conquest. Finally, they completely ignore how Thragg stomped all five of them after nearly killing Omni-boy and tanking the explosion of a planet.

Superman ignores a planet blowing up under him; everyone starts immediately releasing enough jizz to supply multiple sperm clinics. Thragg ignores a planet blowing up under him; "low herald".

Never change KMC.

riv6672
^^^Its odd for me to be on the DC/Superman by proxy side.
Feels good.
I should do it more often!

abhilegend
Originally posted by deathslash
thumb up the problem with the vast majority of those that are supporting Zod seems to be that they're getting caught up on Mark's starting strength. Meanwhile, they completely ignore that Conquest lifted that weight in addition to six motherphucking miles of solid rock. They just disregard the fact that Omni-man was clearly Supreme's equal. Just ignore that Mark was implied to be one of the strongest people in existence. What's that, Mark shrugged off multiple hits from Solar Man (another characters that's stated to be the equal of Supreme)? Nobody cares.

They then either don't know or just straight up ignore that Omni-man, Mark, Thaddeus, Battle Beast, and Allen were all roughly as strong as if not a little bit stronger than Conquest. Finally, they completely ignore how Thragg stomped all five of them after nearly killing Omni-boy and tanking the explosion of a planet.

Superman ignores a planet blowing up under him; everyone starts immediately releasing enough jizz to supply multiple sperm clinics. Thragg ignores a planet blowing up under him; "low herald".

Never change KMC.
Thragg didn't ignore a planet blowing.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Yv-F-ojdx-8/U0ivffKqg2I/AAAAAAACVPg/6jl8ugZ56ZQ/s1600/p75_21.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HVwd-IqhJ_k/U0ivf8e8jeI/AAAAAAACVPo/O2Rm307zjRc/s1600/p75_22.jpg

Pretty much all of the viltrumites were koed there.

Also Thragg fought them one on one. When five no named Viltrumites fought him one on one, they pretty much raped him within one page.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Xs6AIpHX5io/U0i3bzb0tpI/AAAAAAACV_o/QTZOAM3Hr8U/s1600/p102_12.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sBosKsfVX5M/U0i3cOlZXJI/AAAAAAACV_s/uQ1JMTs3hlk/s1600/p102_13.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XOnDKD_sxJs/U0i3ct6y5CI/AAAAAAACV_4/Po6-Vgc3jgU/s1600/p102_14.jpg

Enzeru
Originally posted by deathslash

this is lowballing of the highest order.

But yeah, he's clearly low herald at best.

I've read all Incredible comics and at no point have I stated, that Invincible hasn't gotten stronger as the time progresses. He even caught up on Thragg and beat him.
Where our arguments separate, is who in our eyes belongs in the herald rank.

I personally consider Hulk to be a mid herald. He has the strength and durability and then some of those two aspects, but he lacks in the versatillity department.

High heralds have destroyed planets before. Some of them with mere punches. Gladiator destroyed a planet that survived the death of its galaxy, so it was resistant and durable for sure, yet it stood no chance against Gladiators wrath.
We saw how three Viltrumites had to approach destroying the planet.

Yeah, Thragg was more powerful than them, but you're implying some massive no limit fallacies here. Where does Thraggs power in your opinion stop?

None of the Viltrumites survived a planetary explosion. That happened in the background, while they were fighting. +400 tones is nothing compared to the upper echelon of heralds in comics. And I consider Zod to be closing in on the Supermans and Thors.

You seem to think that Thragg could compete with Zod, because he was arguably the most powerful Viltrumite - or at least in the top 3. I think that Zod would have bitchslapped everyone Thragg has ever faced, while holding Thragg in a choke hold - with Thraggs eyes popping out.

carver9
Originally posted by zopzop
No, it's not. Zod held his own against a character that lifted a weight equivalent to the weight of the Earth. That's a phuck ton more than 400 million tons.

Or 1.5E+20 TONS.

Terrible way to debate. So everyone that has held their own with Supes is planetary? I doubt that and every writer doesnt view characters at the same strength. What I mean by that is, in one comic Hulk could probably bench press the sun and in another the writer might not even think he could lift earth. I have proof of this actually happening with the same Superman you're talking about. We dont share fts. What fts does ZOD have that proves he is stronger because fighting someone doesnt auto gives him planetary strength. .

zopzop
Originally posted by carver9
Terrible way to debate. So everyone that has held their own with Supes is planetary? I doubt that and every writer doesnt view characters at the same strength. What I mean by that is, in one comic Hulk could probably bench press the sun and in another the writer might not even think he could lift earth. I have proof of this actually happening with the same Superman you're talking about. We dont share fts. What fts does ZOD have that proves he is stronger because fighting someone doesnt auto gives him planetary strength. .
My post had nothing to do with Zod beating Phagg because he could lift more. I stated that Zod beats Phagg because Zod has a history against ESTABLISHED characters.

You are quoting my post in reply krisblaze where I stated that even if Phagg could lift 400 million tons it's still nothing to Zod (or any other DC/Marvel herald worth their name). Superman has lifted MUCH more. Hulk has lifted MUCH more. ROOKIE GL's have lifted a phuckton more. Freaking Terrax, who the forum sees as a jobber, has lifted more.

Get it now?

CosmicComet
Originally posted by krisblaze
400 million tons isn't close to Zod? lmao

400 million tons is a phucking large hill or a tiny mountain at best you dolt.

It's much less impressive than it sounds.

deathslash
Originally posted by Enzeru
I've read all Incredible comics and at no point have I stated, that Invincible hasn't gotten stronger as the time progresses. He even caught up on Thragg and beat him.
Where our arguments separate, is who in our eyes belongs in the herald rank.

I personally consider Hulk to be a mid herald. He has the strength and durability and then some of those two aspects, but he lacks in the versatillity department.

High heralds have destroyed planets before. Some of them with mere punches. Gladiator destroyed a planet that survived the death of its galaxy, so it was resistant and durable for sure, yet it stood no chance against Gladiators wrath.
We saw how three Viltrumites had to approach destroying the planet.

Yeah, Thragg was more powerful than them, but you're implying some massive no limit fallacies here. Where does Thraggs power in your opinion stop?

None of the Viltrumites survived a planetary explosion. That happened in the background, while they were fighting. +400 tones is nothing compared to the upper echelon of heralds in comics. And I consider Zod to be closing in on the Supermans and Thors.

You seem to think that Thragg could compete with Zod, because he was arguably the most powerful Viltrumite - or at least in the top 3. I think that Zod would have bitchslapped everyone Thragg has ever faced, while holding Thragg in a choke hold - with Thraggs eyes popping out. Originally posted by Galan007
You're riding the lowball-train hard today, lol.

Wow, you still consistently try to mislead people after all this time, eh? Fortunately, I actually know what I'm talking about, so I can make the needed corrections to your purposely fallacious post. smile

Here's the ENTIRE scene you selectively pulled those scans from:
http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/26899322_Invincible_075-023.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/26899325_Invincible_075-024.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/26899328_Invincible_075-025.jpg

As you can see: they were ALL back up on the very next page. Lol.

But I like how your stance has changed. First you said the blast "nearly killed!1!1!!!" them. When I busted that inaccuracy, you reverted to "they were KTFO!1!1!!!". Now that I've busted that inaccuracy as well, I wonder what you'll defer to..? mmm

Yet another lol @ your attempt to try and act like Mark and Nolan's powers were depleted, btw. Do you even realize how long it takes for Viltrumites to deplete? Do you even realize that NO in-universe sources alluded to them being depleted? Tattered clothing and a bloody lip don't change this, I'm afraid. laughing out loud
Originally posted by Galan007
Allen explicitly noted that some Viltrumites are tougher/stronger than others(that's why he could one-shot some, but was utterly owned by others):
http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/26955938_Invincible_075-013.jpg


And on that note, the 4 Viltrumites who dogpiled Thragg are the SAME Viltrumites who easily pummeled the shit out of Allen, and forced him to retreat with Space Racer:
http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/26955939_Invincible_076-006.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/26955940_Invincible_076-007.jpg

deathslash
Sorry folks, that was meant for abhi.

carver9
So much anger in here.

abhilegend
Originally posted by deathslash
Sorry folks, that was meant for abhi.
Right, and what has Allen ever done to consider him a standard?

Baziemarc123
Why are people scaling lanterns feat to Zod?

Comics are inconsistent, Hal also shielded around Earth that kept 250,000 Kryptonians out which is far above Zod

Baziemarc123
People have their jobbing moments, most writers ignore power levels during those moments, but on panel showings and feats Hal>>>>>>>>>>>Zod, and average kryptonians

just like here

https://s22.postimg.cc/hfs8frxdp/c6769472-48eb-40b4-a23b-10b71005b06b.jpg

Zack M
Well, Hal is uber AF nowadays.

deathslash
Originally posted by abhilegend
Right, and what has Allen ever done to consider him a standard? .....he beat up Omni-man.
https://m.imgur.com/a/FGoNqUn
He literally stomped the shit out of him. He was also the one that saved Mark from the sun.
https://m.imgur.com/a/Yg4lPrS

Oh, and as for those "no name Viltrumites", here's what just one of them did against Omni-man.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3351066-invincible+vs+viltrumites+%2328+%2814%29.png

One of the others in that group broke Nolan's phucking spine.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3351068-invincible+vs+viltrumites+%2328+%2816%29.png

You also ignored that the same woman that overpowered Mark was in the group you freaking liar.
Originally posted by Galan007
Look, I get that you were trying to lowball Thragg by bringing up him getting beaten by FOUR Viltrumites... But you never considered how powerful those Viltrumites were. And again: Anissa(one of the 4 who attacked Thragg) is CLEARLY stronger than Mark, as she EASILY overpowered him:
http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26906100_Invincible_110-011.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26906101_Invincible_110-012.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26906102_Invincible_110-013.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26906103_Invincible_110-014.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26906104_Invincible_110-015.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26906105_Invincible_110-016.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26906106_Invincible_110-017.jpg
What's you're endgame here, abhi? These ridiculous red herrings/lowballings/misleadings don't even make sense, for god's sake. srsly

Btw, you still haven't addressed how you clearly lied about them being knocked out. Hell, this is the second thread that you've blatantly lied about that in. You're probably going to ignore the clear as day evidence that just one of them was roughly on par with Nolan and then you'll try to deflect to safer waters. I'm honestly wondering what you're going to lie about next.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Its odd for me to be on the DC/Superman by proxy side.
Feels good.
I should do it more often!


I MAY ABSOLVE YOU OF YOUR OFFENSES AGAINST THE HOUSE OF EL IF THIS CONTINUES!

abhilegend
Originally posted by deathslash
.....he beat up Omni-man.
https://m.imgur.com/a/FGoNqUn
He literally stomped the shit out of him. He was also the one that saved Mark from the sun.
https://m.imgur.com/a/Yg4lPrS

So circular logic?

Good.

In invincible universe, weaker characters can damage stronger characters just fine.

Mark almost killed Conquest by headbutts when Conquest literally punched through Mark. It's not like DC/Marvel.

So random viltrumite >>Invincible, huh? And the same invincible albeit a little stronger killed Thragg in the sun?

How does that support your claim?

Right, they just had their eyes rolled over because they were asleep.

Zod literally destroying Henshaw body in half is better than anything Thragg has ever done. There you go.

bluewaterrider
Originally posted by deathslash
thumb up the problem with the vast majority of those that are supporting Zod seems to be that they're getting caught up on Mark's starting strength. Meanwhile, they completely ignore that Conquest lifted that weight in addition to six motherphucking miles of solid rock. They just disregard the fact that Omni-man was clearly Supreme's equal. Just ignore that Mark was implied to be one of the strongest people in existence. What's that, Mark shrugged off multiple hits from Solar Man (another characters that's stated to be the equal of Supreme)? Nobody cares.

They then either don't know or just straight up ignore that Omni-man, Mark, Thaddeus, Battle Beast, and Allen were all roughly as strong as if not a little bit stronger than Conquest. Finally, they completely ignore how Thragg stomped all five of them after nearly killing Omni-boy and tanking the explosion of a planet.




mmm


Just so we're on the same page, are you saying it would it take Spider-Man ONE issue to beat any of the guys you listed above, or two?

celeyhyga17
Damn u guys are really shiettin on Invincible universe.

All that damage portrayal is off-set by the ridic damage soak. Plus it was always more an art style. When a top tier(Omniman) from this comic fought a top tier(Supreme) outside the realm of Invincible, he represented well.

Thragg is a beast. As for Zod, he's been impressive of late. I don't see a stomp either way.

Zack M
Zod is just more impressive. In suicide squad, he still fought with half his skull blown by the bomb.

celeyhyga17
No use playing up Zod's dam soak here. Thragg has than in spades and then some. Ure better off talking about his versatility edge like hv or super breath.

Zack M
Zod is definitely more durable, imo

Rage.Of.Olympus
This thread is everything wrong with the board ATM.

DarkSaint85
thumb up it didn't have me in here smile

deathslash
Originally posted by abhilegend


In invincible universe, weaker characters can damage stronger characters just fine.

Mark almost killed Conquest by headbutts when Conquest literally punched through Mark. It's not like DC/Marvel.

So random viltrumite >>Invincible, huh? And the same invincible albeit a little stronger killed Thragg in the sun?

How does that support your claim?

Right, they just had their eyes rolled over because they were asleep.

sure, fine. Go ahead and ignore that Mark broke his skull when he head-butted Conquest. Ignore that in the final war, numerous half Viltrumites were dying just trying to ram into Mark and Nolan.

*Anissa*
*Named character*
*Introduced as being stronger than Mark*
*Random*

Are you retarded? That's like calling Thragg or Conquest "random Viltrumites". That's like calling Rao a "random Kryptonian".

You mean the corpes that formed the ring of their planet?
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4389543-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%281%29.png
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4389544-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%282%29.png

I didn't think you could actually sink any lower, but once again, it seems that I've overestimated you. You're now lying about the billions of corpes that surrounded the planet. You're mental gymnastics are simply incredible.
laughing out loud

bluewaterrider
.

bluewaterrider
.

Baziemarc123
Abhi is known for lying, and misinterpreting context. just the usual lol

carver9
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Damn u guys are really shiettin on Invincible universe.

All that damage portrayal is off-set by the ridic damage soak. Plus it was always more an art style. When a top tier(Omniman) from this comic fought a top tier(Supreme) outside the realm of Invincible, he represented well.

Thragg is a beast. As for Zod, he's been impressive of late. I don't see a stomp either way.

That isnt the issue though. The beings that are damaging them are their equals. It's like calling Zod weak because he blasted half of his brains out. It's like call Superman weak because Zod broke his jaw with a blitz and blasted a dose of heat vision through him casually. Equals can do that to each other... it doesnt take away from their durability. Now when you have humans causing damage to Heralds, that is when you question things.

abhilegend
Originally posted by deathslash
sure, fine. Go ahead and ignore that Mark broke his skull when he head-butted Conquest. Ignore that in the final war, numerous half Viltrumites were dying just trying to ram into Mark and Nolan.

Mark almost killed Conquest. But hey, he broke his skull (that's major. Almost dying is minor).

Half vilturmites are as powerful as the real vilturmites now?



Right, Anissa. Forgive me for not remembering random invincible characters.

But I thought Mark was as strong as Nolan and second most powerful compared to Thragg at that point. Are you saying random vilturmites like Anissa were stronger than Mark?



Well, what's special about Anissa? That she raped Mark?

So you are sabotaging your own point? Vilturmites actually die from planet destruction?

Damn, what a weak race.



Hey I was trying to give vilturmites some benefit of the doubt that they survived the destruction of Viltrum.

But hey, dying is so much better than getting knocked out.

deathslash
Originally posted by carver9
That isnt the issue though. The beings that are damaging them are their equals. It's like calling Zod weak because he blasted half of his brains out. It's like call Superman weak because Zod broke his jaw with a blitz and blasted a dose of heat vision through him casually. Equals can do that to each other... it doesnt take away from their durability. Now when you have humans causing damage to Heralds, that is when you question things. *sees Juggernaut punching Thor's teeth out and getting a tooth punched out.
*Glances at the hulk bashing in Thor's head with his hammer
*Looks at Diana owning Faora whilst acknowledgiqng that she's physically weaker.
*Looks at the flash snapping Zoom's neck.
*Looks at Superman getting an arm broken by Zod.

Yeah right. Physical equals can never damage each other.

deathslash
Originally posted by abhilegend


So you are sabotaging your own point? Vilturmites actually die from planet destruction?

Damn, what a weak race.



Hey I was trying to give vilturmites some benefit of the doubt that they survived the destruction of Viltrum.

But hey, dying is so much better than getting knocked out. *ignores that those Viltrumites died long before the destruction of the planet
*Ignores that they died from a plague tailor made to kill them
*Ignores the on panel evidence and statements from the characters
*Pretends that the planet blowing up killed them

At this point I'm absolutely convinced that you're retarded.

abhilegend
Originally posted by deathslash
*ignores that those Viltrumites died long before the destruction of the planet
*Ignores that they died from a plague tailor made to kill them
*Ignores the on panel evidence and statements from the characters
*Pretends that the planet blowing up killed them

At this point I'm absolutely convinced that you're retarded.

Are you saying these vilturmites were killed by a plague? I'm forgetting about that but there were alot of the vilturmites who were still alive at that point.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HVwd-IqhJ_k/U0ivf8e8jeI/AAAAAAACVPo/O2Rm307zjRc/s1600/p75_22.jpg

What about Allen? He was koed by the blast as well.

Enzeru
No idea, why this thread is still going on.

Anyone, who has actually read Invincible comics and looked into the lore of that universe knows that Zod oneshots Thragg and everyone else in the Invincible universe. There is just a massive power gap between Invincible characters and mid to high tier heralds from Marvel and DC comics.

But okay, I'll dwell a little bit deeper into all of it:

Originally posted by deathslash

A planet that we have no idea of the size of. For all we know, Viltrum was the size of Mars. We do however know that it would have to be significantly more dense than earth in order for beings like the Viltrumites to live on it.

How dense was Viltrum in your opinion? How high was its gravity? Let's say the density compares to gravity. You're speculating, that it must have been so much more impressive then Earth... Can you give me a number?

Don't worry about it, I've got you:
https://i.imgur.com/rlSLCTM.jpg

^ It's stated, that Viltrums gravity was 1.25 the gravity of Earth. So actually fairly similar. In the story the Viltrumes were very interested in Earth later on, because it was similar to their home planet and had a race, they could also easily breed with.
So there goes your argument of Viltrum being some kind of a special animal, which required even more than just regular planet busting power. Not that the argument would have mattered in the first place, since as long as it's not the Earth we're talking about... the size, the density and the gravity of the destroyed planet rarely ever matters.

Let's face it... Invincible characters have questionable durability. They tend to bleed and bruise very quickly. What makes them stand out is their ability to recover. In the Invincible universe that has something to do with "Smart Atoms", where their bodies simply pull themselves back to their original form (aka their insane healing factors).

Omni-Man:
https://i.imgur.com/vyESIXX.jpg

^ His durability states, that he can survive direct hits by field artillery cannon shells. That's cool and all, but at the same time that's not something even low heralds in Marvel and DC even notice.

Allen the Alien:
https://i.imgur.com/5HLW6Zk.jpg

^ His durability states, that he can withstand anti-tank missiles, before starting to receive serious damage.

I'm not even going to post Invincible stats, because they're even lower. To be fair though, that was when Invincible was still younger and well below Omni-Man and Allen.
But that isn't even the point. The point is the following thing:
https://i.imgur.com/IXhTxok.jpg

^ That's how Viltrumite biology actually works. Their "smart atoms" increase their strength and other powers, but their durability simply doesn't scale in the same way. The bio tells us, that in theory Viltrumite muscle perform greater and greater strength until a certain task is performed. So for the sake of the argument, let's say that Thragg can reach the strength level needed to compete with Zod... Unfortunately for Thragg the same doesn't apply for his durability. Viltrumite durability simply does not scale the same way their strength does. Which is a common theme through out the ENTIRE comic run. Even the most powerful Invincible characters were rather gooey and constantly receiving tons and tons of damage. They don't have high strength and durability like heralds in Marvel. They have high strength and a great healing factor. But even their healing factor is bad, when compared to someone like the Hulk.

Even if Thragg can go toe to toe with Zod in the strength department (which is something I doubt anyway), he would get his face punched off, because his durability is just not there. Every time Invincible characters punch each other bones are broken and limbs torn off. Even when a younger and less experienced Invincible attacks someone like Conquest, who at that point is well above Invincible.

TL-DR: Zod oneshots.

leonidas
my impression from this thread has been that via abc logic this should be competitive, but by feats and, apparently, biology, zod should take it handily. i'm no closer to having any idea how close this fight would be than when it started. blink

DarkSaint85
BZ me Leo.

leonidas
i lol'd. thragg v zod--we could bz who has the worst name?

CosmicComet
Zodd is a great name.

SquallX
Originally posted by leonidas
i lol'd. thragg v zod--we could bz who has the worst name?

Kneel before Zod! That just roll of the tongue.

quanchi112
Originally posted by deathslash
*ignores that those Viltrumites died long before the destruction of the planet
*Ignores that they died from a plague tailor made to kill them
*Ignores the on panel evidence and statements from the characters
*Pretends that the planet blowing up killed them

At this point I'm absolutely convinced that you're retarded. thumb up

h1a8

deathslash
Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you saying these vilturmites were killed by a plague? I'm forgetting about that but there were alot of the vilturmites who were still alive at that point.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HVwd-IqhJ_k/U0ivf8e8jeI/AAAAAAACVPo/O2Rm307zjRc/s1600/p75_22.jpg

What about Allen? He was koed by the blast as well. Thaddeus (the old Viltrumite who got his head ripped off by Thragg) explicitly stated that he made the plague to kill most of the Viltrumites. This is kind of why, you know, Thragg targeted him first and explicitly stated that by killing him he had avenged the former king. Also, Omni-man said that there were only about fiftycViltrumites left alive after the plague. Some of them died from being temporarily weakened by the plague, and others were straight up killed (we saw Omni-man kill at least four).

What matters is that you acknowledge that the corpses were the ring of the planet.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395164-thragg+back+story+%281%29.png

Hell, in the scan in which you think that people died/got knocked out there are only four Viltrumites that hadn't been dead for several hundred years. Once again, Allen wasn't knocked out by the blast since we literally see him fully conscious in the one page later. And since no real amount of time passed and Mark also had his eyes closed during the blast, it's safe to assume that the guy that's stronger than Mark's dad is just fine.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/26899328/Invincible_075-025.jpg.html
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395169-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%281%29.png

Even if some of the Viltrumites did die, it doesn't matter. Do you know why?
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395166-thragg+vs+kid+omni+man+%2375+%281%29.png
Each of them have different level of strength/durability. That's not to say that they're weak though. Even some of the weakest actual no name Viltrumites have displayed 100+ ton strength. Oh also, you can see a half breed Viltrumite (Oliver) taking on Thragg. So no, half Viltrumites are not necessarily weaker than normal ones and btw, Mark himself is a half Viltrumite so.....yeah.

To reiterate, No one of note was knocked out or even killed by the planet exploding. Thragg stomped on Thaddeus, Oliver, Nolan, Mark, Battle Beast, and Allen. Mark at the time of his ass whooping was a little stronger than Conquest (who lifted 400 tons in addition to 6 miles of rock. Seriously, stop getting caught up on the 400 tons and look at the six miles of rock falling on his head and being casually pushed off). Thragg spent days fighting battle Beast with his intestines falling out and spent all of that time moving faster than the Space Racer's FTL tech.

Reading comprehension is key in these sort of debates and it seems like you didn't read/forgot/ignored the prerequisite information in order to make an informed opinion. So I would like to respectfully ask you to stop posting in this thread until the time comes when you understand what it is that you're talking about. If for no other reason than that your absence will help me avoid the rolling migraines that strike when you like about something without even knowing that you're lying about something.

h1a8
Originally posted by deathslash
Thaddeus (the old Viltrumite who got his head ripped off by Thragg) explicitly stated that he made the plague to kill most of the Viltrumites. This is kind of why, you know, Thragg targeted him first and explicitly stated that by killing him he had avenged the former king. Also, Omni-man said that there were only about fiftycViltrumites left alive after the plague. Some of them died from being temporarily weakened by the plague, and others were straight up killed (we saw Omni-man kill at least four).

What matters is that you acknowledge that the corpses were the ring of the planet.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395164-thragg+back+story+%281%29.png

Hell, in the scan in which you think that people died/got knocked out there are only four Viltrumites that hadn't been dead for several hundred years. Once again, Allen wasn't knocked out by the blast since we literally see him fully conscious in the one page later. And since no real amount of time passed and Mark also had his eyes closed during the blast, it's safe to assume that the guy that's stronger than Mark's dad is just fine.
https://www.turboimagehost.com/p/26899328/Invincible_075-025.jpg.html
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395169-thragg+vs+invincible+and+omni+man+%2376+%281%29.png

Even if some of the Viltrumites did die, it doesn't matter. Do you know why?
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395166-thragg+vs+kid+omni+man+%2375+%281%29.png
Each of them have different level of strength/durability. That's not to say that they're weak though. Even some of the weakest actual no name Viltrumites have displayed 100+ ton strength. Oh also, you can see a half breed Viltrumite (Oliver) taking on Thragg. So no, half Viltrumites are not necessarily weaker than normal ones and btw, Mark himself is a half Viltrumite so.....yeah.

To reiterate, No one of note was knocked out or even killed by the planet exploding. Thragg stomped on Thaddeus, Oliver, Nolan, Mark, Battle Beast, and Allen. Mark at the time of his ass whooping was a little stronger than Conquest (who lifted 400 tons in addition to 6 miles of rock. Seriously, stop getting caught up on the 400 tons and look at the six miles of rock falling on his head and being casually pushed off). Thragg spent days fighting battle Beast with his intestines falling out and spent all of that time moving faster than the Space Racer's FTL tech.

Reading comprehension is key in these sort of debates and it seems like you didn't read/forgot/ignored the prerequisite information in order to make an informed opinion. So I would like to respectfully ask you to stop posting in this thread until the time comes when you understand what it is that you're talking about. If for no other reason than that your absence will help me avoid the rolling migraines that strike when you like about something without even knowing that you're lying about something.

Do you have any evidence that Thragg can lift 400 million tons?
Or that he can take a punch with a 400 million ton force without dying?

If yes, then post it.
That will make this discussion more debate worthy.
I seen MANY times characters holding their own against characters they have no business doing. Colossus vs Gladiator, Thing vs Namor, etc

panthergod
These numbers means jackshit. It's embarrassing that presumed adults can't figure out comic books. It, really laughable.

Omni-man is mid Class 100/top tier(the Supreme portrayal is an high end outlier), and it's not up for serious debate.

Thragg is well above that level. However, Viltrumites have relatively low invulnerability compared to Kryptonians.

Zod is not stronger than Allen. Thragg is a peer to Superman in strength.

Baziemarc123
Originally posted by panthergod
These numbers means jackshit. It's embarrassing that presumed adults can't figure out comic books. It, really laughable.

Omni-man is mid Class 100/top tier(the Supreme portrayal is an high end outlier), and it's not up for serious debate.

Thragg is well above that level. However, Viltrumites have relatively low invulnerability compared to Kryptonians.

Zod is not stronger than Allen. Thragg is a peer to Superman in strength.

probably the smartest you've said in your entire life

also http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=653919&pagenumber=4

let me know if you're up for the spectrum vs superman debate BZ

panthergod

Baziemarc123
Here we go with this superman can hold back by a billion ton crap again

Zack M
It's hard to match top tier kryptonians.

abhilegend
Originally posted by deathslash
Thaddeus (the old Viltrumite who got his head ripped off by Thragg) explicitly stated that he made the plague to kill most of the Viltrumites. This is kind of why, you know, Thragg targeted him first and explicitly stated that by killing him he had avenged the former king. Also, Omni-man said that there were only about fiftycViltrumites left alive after the plague. Some of them died from being temporarily weakened by the plague, and others were straight up killed (we saw Omni-man kill at least four).

What matters is that you acknowledge that the corpses were the ring of the planet.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395164-thragg+back+story+%281%29.png

I will take your word on it because I don't remember that.

This is just hilarious though. Allen was floating with his eyes closed, that's a classic sign of being koed.

But whatever man.

So getting your arm ripped off by Thragg is class 100 feat, eh?

Mark is a special case by being a human vilturmite hybrid.

Right, so either Thragg got weaker or Battle Beast grew stronger if Thragg needed days to beat Battle Beast.

Yeah, six miles of rock man. It must be like nothing compared to the mass of a planet.

But six miles of the rock!!!

Aww, you're getting so mad at the prospect of your precious invincible characters losing.

Chill out, Zod beats Thragg face in.

SquallX

Pillow Biter

quanchi112
Seems like Thragg wins based off the arguments presented.

panthergod
Originally posted by abhilegend
I will take your word on it because I don't remember that.

This is just hilarious though. Allen was floating with his eyes closed, that's a classic sign of being koed.

But whatever man.

So getting your arm ripped off by Thragg is class 100 feat, eh?

Mark is a special case by being a human vilturmite hybrid.

Right, so either Thragg got weaker or Battle Beast grew stronger if Thragg needed days to beat Battle Beast.

Yeah, six miles of rock man. It must be like nothing compared to the mass of a planet.

But six miles of the rock!!!

Aww, you're getting so mad at the prospect of your precious invincible characters losing.

Chill out, Zod beats Thragg face in.


... Are you willing to correct these fools on the space cheese bs so we can have an valid discussion? because you know using those numbers is bs.

panthergod

CadenceV2
My two cents. I made this Respect thread a little bit ago.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/invincible-respect-thread-1935089/

Feats in respect thread that matter to comparing to Zod.

Strength:
Invincible is easily able to city size craters moon surface with his strength and ramming attacks.
Able to lift millions of tons and throw it into orbit with the far inferior kid Omniman.
Tech Jacket can throwthousands of tons from earth to the sun in short time frame. Invincible beats him up.
Omni Man match strength with Supreme, and Mark is superior to Omni Man post his amp via Atom Eve.

Durability Feats:
Mark has withstood blows from Solar Man fine, a character directly stated to be Superman level by the writer.
Omni Man withstood blows from Supreme who is also Superman tier.
Mark withstood attacks of ccity level in several feats of mine in the respect thred, and mountains will disentigrate will before he shows wounds.
Mark survive bashing through the multiple levels of the planet at light speed, with only the soli nickle core being a "possible" threat to his health.

Speed:
Mark is as fast as Zod by feats. No way to argue this otherwise. Mark has better travel speed than New 52 Zod by alot too. So there is that.

Weakness:
Only major weakness Mark has here is lack of heat vision for range attacks, and the fact sun temperature heat will destabilize his atomic structure with PROLONG exposure. So a heavy attack on Heat Vision would wound him for sure. Thats it.

So yes, by feats and establish characters Mark or his inferior father fought is proof he should compare to Zod. Could go either way for me.

abhilegend
Originally posted by CadenceV2
My two cents. I made this Respect thread a little bit ago.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/invincible-respect-thread-1935089/

Feats in respect thread that matter to comparing to Zod.

Strength:
Invincible is easily able to city size craters moon surface with his strength and ramming attacks.
Able to lift millions of tons and throw it into orbit with the far inferior kid Omniman.
Tech Jacket can throwthousands of tons from earth to the sun in short time frame. Invincible beats him up.
Omni Man match strength with Supreme, and Mark is superior to Omni Man post his amp via Atom Eve.

Durability Feats:
Mark has withstood blows from Solar Man fine, a character directly stated to be Superman level by the writer.
Omni Man withstood blows from Supreme who is also Superman tier.
Mark withstood attacks of ccity level in several feats of mine in the respect thred, and mountains will disentigrate will before he shows wounds.
Mark survive bashing through the multiple levels of the planet at light speed, with only the soli nickle core being a "possible" threat to his health.

Speed:
Mark is as fast as Zod by feats. No way to argue this otherwise. Mark has better travel speed than New 52 Zod by alot too. So there is that.

Weakness:
Only major weakness Mark has here is lack of heat vision for range attacks, and the fact sun temperature heat will destabilize his atomic structure with PROLONG exposure. So a heavy attack on Heat Vision would wound him for sure. Thats it.

So yes, by feats and establish characters Mark or his inferior father fought is proof he should compare to Zod. Could go either way for me.
Those are piss poor feats to compare to kryptonians. Forget about Zod, by those feats Thragg wouldn't even stand against Supergirl.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by abhilegend
Those are piss poor feats to compare to kryptonians. Forget about Zod, by those feats Thragg wouldn't even stand against Supergirl.

They stand up very well. Zod is weaker than Superman overall by feats and win loss streak. So is Supergirl, Power Girl. All Kryptonians. Not to mention the different feat scales of Silver Age Superman vs Post Crisis Superman vs New 52 Superman vs Rebirth Superman.

So yes, depends which versions and which Kryptonians you speak of. Superman > any other Kryptnonian including Zod and most versions of Superman/Supergirl/Powergirl/Supergirl arr different anyway from the last versions.

Unless your a DC fanboy, then yeah, my argument is indeed piss poor.

Zack M
Rebirth Zod is damn near close to Superman, though. For someone who can own Hank, Zod gets a healthy majority.

deathslash
Originally posted by Zack M
Rebirth Zod is damn near close to Superman, though. For someone who can own Hank, Zod gets a healthy majority. 1. You're going off of singular feats. Look at the overall picture and he becomes significantly less impressive.

2. Didn't he get the shit beat out of him by by Hal even when he was significantly amped? Not impressive at all.

3. Most of the showings that I've seen from him this far also include a fair amount of help/context.

cdtm
Hal was also amped, with the Krona gauntlet made ring.

We saw how it super charged a dying Kyle.

deathslash
Originally posted by cdtm
Hal was also amped, with the Krona gauntlet made ring.

We saw how it super charged a dying Kyle. not saying that you're wrong, but do you have any scans? I thought he was just using a ring.

Zack M
Originally posted by deathslash
1. You're going off of singular feats. Look at the overall picture and he becomes significantly less impressive.

2. Didn't he get the shit beat out of him by by Hal even when he was significantly amped? Not impressive at all.

3. Most of the showings that I've seen from him this far also include a fair amount of help/context.

Yeah, Hal has been amped, so Zod owning Hal was pretty impressive. Why isn't impressive that he owned Hank?

deathslash
Originally posted by Zack M
Yeah, Hal has been amped, so Zod owning Hal was pretty impressive. Why isn't impressive that he owned Hank? is beating down Hank impressive? Yes. Is it a feat that now defines how powerful Zod is? No.

We go off of averages here, not high end showings. If we go off of high end showings and use them as the baseline for characters, suddenly Spider-Man is an actual threat to Supergirl. Seriously, I feel like I have to remind of this time and time again.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by deathslash
is beating down Hank impressive? Yes. Is it a feat that now defines how powerful Zod is? No.

We go off of averages here, not high end showings. If we go off of high end showings and use them as the baseline for characters, suddenly Spider-Man is an actual threat to Supergirl. Seriously, I feel like I have to remind of this time and time again.

True words. High end arguments is what dumb ass Death Battle videos do lol.

deathslash
Originally posted by CadenceV2
True words. High end arguments is what dumb ass Death Battle videos do lol. thumb up In addition to throwing in alternate realities and occasionally making faulty arguments. That's not to say that they're wrong about everything, but going only with high end feats often significantly stacks a fight in the favor of one character.

Zack M
Originally posted by deathslash
is beating down Hank impressive? Yes. Is it a feat that now defines how powerful Zod is? No.

We go off of averages here, not high end showings. If we go off of high end showings and use them as the baseline for characters, suddenly Spider-Man is an actual threat to Supergirl. Seriously, I feel like I have to remind of this time and time again.

It's just not Hank, though. His current average is pretty high with Hal and all.

abhilegend
Originally posted by CadenceV2
They stand up very well. Zod is weaker than Superman overall by feats and win loss streak. So is Supergirl, Power Girl. All Kryptonians. Not to mention the different feat scales of Silver Age Superman vs Post Crisis Superman vs New 52 Superman vs Rebirth Superman.

So yes, depends which versions and which Kryptonians you speak of. Superman > any other Kryptnonian including Zod and most versions of Superman/Supergirl/Powergirl/Supergirl arr different anyway from the last versions.

Unless your a DC fanboy, then yeah, my argument is indeed piss poor.
No, it doesn't match with either post crisis or new 52 kryptonians. Post crisis Supergirl has outright destroyed moons solo, one handed choked out J'onn.

Even New 52 Supergirl has feats better than that.

Pillow Biter
I think Supergirl was getting an early push, but her typical strength portrayal seems to have settled to a lower level than when she was able to manhandle the league.

Again, it's weird that she doesn't seem to get credited with the same degree of dynamic power that Superman does. Nor do other Kryptonians.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it doesn't match with either post crisis or new 52 kryptonians. Post crisis Supergirl has outright destroyed moons solo, one handed choked out J'onn.

Even New 52 Supergirl has feats better than that.

Not sure why Moon level is overly impressive. Supreme busts planets and tetonic plates and Omni Man match him fine. Mark and two other Viltrumites full body lightseed through a denser than earth planet to bust it, which is better than busting a moon which is only 1/82 earth in mass and density.

So yeah, while DC comics have more comics and more feats, Invincile and Skybound characters have incredible level feats and unlike inconsistent DC comics with 60 years of contradicting feats, Skybound characters have 300 comics only worth of consistent feats.

So I disagree.

deathslash
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it doesn't match with either post crisis or new 52 kryptonians. Post crisis Supergirl has outright destroyed moons solo, one handed choked out J'onn.

Even New 52 Supergirl has feats better than that. lol at manhandling Manhunter being impressive. He's like the DC version Rhino. He almost got killed by Midnight or ffs.

abhilegend
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Not sure why Moon level is overly impressive. Supreme busts planets and tetonic plates and Omni Man match him fine. Mark and two other Viltrumites full body lightseed through a denser than earth planet to bust it, which is better than busting a moon which is only 1/82 earth in mass and density.

By matching feats Supergirl matched Lobo who pulls suns from sky, tank supernovas and black holes and threeshotted Ultraman who survived destruction of his whole universe.

Space Racer had destabilized the core of the planet otherwise the vulturmites would have died on impact.



Kryptonians are rather more consistent than that.

abhilegend
Originally posted by deathslash
lol at manhandling Manhunter being impressive. He's like the DC version Rhino. He almost got killed by Midnight or ffs.
J'onn has legitimate strength feats like helping to move the earth and has gone toe to toe with Captain Marvel and Triumph.

Zack M
Originally posted by deathslash
lol at manhandling Manhunter being impressive. He's like the DC version Rhino. He almost got killed by Midnight or ffs.

Lol MM didn't even want to fight Midnighter, dummy. Plus, Midnighter has the ability to see weak points, and he still failed. When MM was serious, he mind wiped him and the rest of Stormwatch. Don't leave out the details, sport.

cdtm
Originally posted by abhilegend
J'onn has legitimate strength feats like helping to move the earth and has gone toe to toe with Captain Marvel and Triumph.

Toe to toe, nothing. He damn near beat Triumph within an inch of his life. smile

Add to that, taking out Mon-El with a good sucker punch. Even for a cheap shot, you generally need to be in someone else's ballpark for it to result in a KO/injury.

CadenceV2
Originally posted by abhilegend
By matching feats Supergirl matched Lobo who pulls suns from sky, tank supernovas and black holes and threeshotted Ultraman who survived destruction of his whole universe.

Space Racer had destabilized the core of the planet otherwise the vulturmites would have died on impact.

Kryptonians are rather more consistent than that.

The Core was destabilized yes. Only due to they "May" die on impact not that would happen for sure. Also the core was on a planet denser than earth by bio. So theres that to consider too.

As for Lobo, never seen him move stars. Tanking Supernovas and blackholes mean little when he has immortality. So why bring him up in discussion with Zod is beyond me. Ultraman was also not much to bring up, he survive destruction of his universe, yet he is only moon level in strength and durability.

So i dont see how relevenat these feats are overall when discussing Zod, Superman's inferior, beating Thragg who is Invincible/Omni Man's superior.

Zack M
Pulsar Stargrave.

abhilegend
Originally posted by CadenceV2
The Core was destabilized yes. Only due to they "May" die on impact not that would happen for sure. Also the core was on a planet denser than earth by bio. So theres that to consider too.

Right, and they were to die hitting the core if not destabilized.

Maybe you haven't looked hard enough then.

He tanked them on his durability. Not healing factor.

That's post Flashpoint Ultraman. We are talking about pre Flashpoint Ultraman here who survived the destruction of his whole universe.

You're acting like Superman wouldn't punch Thragg face in.

cdtm
Originally posted by cdtm
Toe to toe, nothing. He damn near beat Triumph within an inch of his life. smile

Add to that, taking out Mon-El with a good sucker punch. Even for a cheap shot, you generally need to be in someone else's ballpark for it to result in a KO/injury.

Here's supporting evidence. Remember how powerful Triumph is, and how he could have killed Superman:

https://origin-static.comicvine.gamespot.com/api/image/original/2632568-66.png

https://origin-static.comicvine.gamespot.com/api/image/original/2632570-68.png

https://origin-static.comicvine.gamespot.com/api/image/original/2632571-69.png

https://origin-static.comicvine.gamespot.com/api/image/original/2632572-70.png


It's like all the years of frustration over working with Guy Gardner, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, G'nort came out at once against poor Triumph. laughing out loud

CadenceV2
Originally posted by abhilegend
Right, and they were to die hitting the core if not destabilized.

Maybe you haven't looked hard enough then.

He tanked them on his durability. Not healing factor.

That's post Flashpoint Ultraman. We are talking about pre Flashpoint Ultraman here who survived the destruction of his whole universe.

You're acting like Superman wouldn't punch Thragg face in.

Find me where its stated as fact? Its not. In the scan he Thaddeus stated as quoted "If the core has time to stabilize, we COULD die on impact." That states he did not know for sure, and before this quote Thaddeus stated this was something no Viltrumite ever tried before and was all theory anyway. Thaddeus also stated they needed Allen and Tech jacket too to pull the feat off, and he was wrong about that as himself, Nolan, and Mark was enough. Proving he is unreliable in his facts from the get go. Context of the words help.

I debated plenty of times against Lobo in Comicvine threads. Not once was ever a showing in his respect threads or debates him pulling stars. So please show me one since you have some inside hidden info.

Being immortal negates taking damage.

Yet Pre Flash point Ultraman was still weaker than Post Crisis Superman anyway. Inconsistent. I can also show you a feat of Hyperion surviving the destruction of his universe and holding apart two universes. Still not a universal level character :/ Add to all this, this is New 52 Zod since its current characters, which new 52 Ultraman is far inferior.

Superman sure. Too bad this is Zod we are arguing about. The guy inferior to Supes in every way by high ends and overall story plot.

abhilegend
Originally posted by CadenceV2
Find me where its stated as fact? Its not. In the scan he Thaddeus stated as quoted "If the core has time to stabilize, we COULD die on impact." That states he did not know for sure, and before this quote Thaddeus stated this was something no Viltrumite ever tried before and was all theory anyway. Thaddeus also stated they needed Allen and Tech jacket too to pull the feat off, and he was wrong about that as himself, Nolan, and Mark was enough. Proving he is unreliable in his facts from the get go. Context of the words help.

Why would they even said if there was no chance for them to die?

Why would the writer put that there?

Here you go.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111115653/3501064-7177738075-34190.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/133524/2763791-2763211-78894_original_super.jpg



He immortal due to his healing factor. He is not immune to damage.



Well you can do that but that would be incorrect. Hyperion only survived the destruction of the two earths which he failed to hold apart.

The universes were destroyed by cascading effect. It wasn't a bomb explosion.

But still superior to Thragg.

DarkSaint85
Cadence should've debated against me over at comicvine with Lobo stick out tongue

RealityWarper
Batman >>>> Lobo.


https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/batman-blows-lobos-head-off-5.jpg

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru !

Nani !

Hebi !

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/batman-blows-lobos-head-off-6.jpg

RealityWarper
Stellar Mass doesn't equals Stellar Weight:

mass

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun

a body of coherent matter, usually of indefinite shape and often of considerable size: a mass of dough.
a collection of incoherent particles, parts, or objects regarded as forming one body: a mass of sand.
aggregate; whole (usually preceded by in the): People, in the mass, mean well.

Zack M
Lobo was also struck by a time storm, capable of re-writing time and space. He took it with no problem, although he did lose an arm.

RealityWarper
Lobo is inconsistent but his recent showing hardly makes him capable to dance with Thragg imo.

If it was a popularity contest, I prefer Lobo by far. ^^

Stoic
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^Its odd for me to be on the DC/Superman by proxy side.
Feels good.
I should do it more often!

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I MAY ABSOLVE YOU OF YOUR OFFENSES AGAINST THE HOUSE OF EL IF THIS CONTINUES!

Better be careful riv, or he'll be offering you some pipe next.

Zack M
Lobo doesn't have too many low feats, actually.

deathslash
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why would they even said if there was no chance for them to die?

Why would the writer put that there?

God, your reading comprehension is simply abysmal. Thaddues said that because he'd never tried to destroy a planet before. He didn't know whether they could do it or not. Hence why he stacked it in their favor by having the Space Racer shoot the planet first and then ram through it. Thaddues even thought that they needed all three Viltrumites, Allen, and Tech Jacket to do it.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3397320-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+%281%29.png

It was also an in character statement from somebody that had expressly stated that he'd never done anything like that before. It's not hard to see that Thaddeus was going off of guesswork.

Why would the writer include this? Because it adds to the suspense. Do you actually think that Thor would die by getting shot? When he says that he could die it's meant to make the sequence seem more epic/interesting.

Stoic
Supreme was ridiculously powerful. I'd say he was easily on Zod's level, so where does that leave us?

Thragg was also an extremely good fighter for a guy of his power level.

deathslash
Originally posted by Stoic
Supreme was ridiculously powerful. I'd say he was easily on Zod's level, so where does that leave us?

Thragg was also an extremely good fighter for a guy of his power level. thumb up
Let's also remember that mark was shrugging off punches from Solar Man. The same Solar Man that was stated by the writer to be superman level.

panthergod
Erik Larsen isn't an authority on Supermans power level.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by Stoic
Better be careful riv, or he'll be offering you some pipe next.


I'LL STOMP YOUR HEART OUT OF YOUR CHEST, GAMMITE!!!

SquallX
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Batman >>>> Lobo.


https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/batman-blows-lobos-head-off-5.jpg

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru !

Nani !

Hebi !

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/batman-blows-lobos-head-off-6.jpg

Now your using Batman as a way to low bawled Lobo!

Batman has also
-kicked the Spectre
-reacted to Flash
-reacted to Zoom
-dodge Kal lasers after being fired
-Hit and damage an alien dog after Flash failed to
-out trace the Omega Sanctions

So yeah, use Batman as the focal point to undermine legit heralds and above characters.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by SquallX
Now your using Batman as a way to low bawled Lobo!

Batman has also
-kicked the Spectre

Spectre made it happen so Batman can feel better.



Neither going at full speed.



That's a mistake of the artist.



Which proves that Batman hit harder than Flash. I'm fine with that.



Or not...



The example of using Batman as a focal point to Lobo is valid.

People uses Lobo as a focal point for Kryptonians.

If you don't have double standards, it makes sense to use any character as a focal point for anything if the context is respected.

panthergod
RealityWarper's remedial lack of ability to comprehend tropes of comic stories is entertaining as usual.

Tell us some more about how Sentry moved a Celestial by himself, eh? laughing out loud

RealityWarper
Originally posted by panthergod
RealityWarper's remedial lack of ability to comprehend tropes of comic stories is entertaining as usual.

Prove it.

Scans.



On this topic, I've proven that Rogue's action was irrelevant.

Tony Start said on panel that she wasn't even able to slow the Celestial down.

You have no sense of scale of the power displayed displayed by those characters.

By the way I need salt for the incoming next meal, bring me more, please.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by SquallX
Now your using Batman as a way to low bawled Lobo!

Batman has also
-kicked the Spectre
-reacted to Flash
-reacted to Zoom
-dodge Kal lasers after being fired
-Hit and damage an alien dog after Flash failed to
-out trace the Omega Sanctions

So yeah, use Batman as the focal point to undermine legit heralds and above characters.

You missed out on Batman taking a beating from a bloodlusted WW who wasn't pulling her punches.

Whilst not in his armour thumb up

panthergod
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Prove it.

Scans.


..You dont' understand comics, why would I debate a medium so far beyond your meager comprehension..?



So still lying, on top of being too dumb to get that HELPING SOMEONE means that you are NOT doing it ALONE, by definition..?

Please, continue to show what a joke everything you say is, kid. Please. laughing out loud laughing out loud

celeyhyga17
The only time Sentry carried a Celestial solo was when he lifted Exitar's husk from earth.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by panthergod
..You dont' understand comics, why would I debate a medium so far beyond your meager comprehension..?

Your usual stance at avoiding the debate by searching excuses is dully noted.

You are not in position to criticize my comprehension, your posts are full of bias, in the best case.



I've never said that he was alone doing the action, I said that Rogue's action was irrelevant, thus making it alike he was alone to perform the feat.

Again, you are in no position to criticize my comprehension.

You don't even get the nuances in what you are attempting to read.




This tells more about you than it tells about me.

Your childish attempt failed shortly. thumb up

I'm still waiting for the scans that are supposed to exist to prove your point and I will wait for a long time.

deathslash
Originally posted by panthergod
Erik Larsen isn't an authority on Supermans power level. you don't have to be an authority on superman in order to know or state where other characters are in relation to him. If Stan Lee said that the silver surfer is superman level, then guess where he is.

LordofBrooklyn
Originally posted by deathslash
you don't have to be an authority on superman in order to know or state where other characters are in relation to him. If Stan Lee said that the silver surfer is superman level, then guess where he is.

If Stan Lee said that Beast is Superman level would that make it so?

cdtm
Well, Stan Lee did say Wolverine can't possibly fight Hulk because he's short, and Hulk would step on him.http://images.killermovies.com/forums/moresmilies/closedeyes.gif

Stoic
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
If Stan Lee said that Beast is Superman level would that make it so?

Stop being obtuse, or I may begin calling you Captain Bunghole. These are fictitious characters, which means that they can make a character 7 billion times more powerful than Superman after he stops holding back.

Deathslash is exactly correct. Not to mention that Zod has several years to go in order to be as powerful as Kal, and we know that this will never happen in a comics medium, because these are guys that never age. I mean Peter Parker is older than many grand parents and yet.... You see where I'm going with this right?

Zod is the Walmart version of Superman, whereas Supreme was stated to be even more powerful than any man of steel at the time of his creation.

Thragg made Supreme look like a light weight. For all intents and purposes (as well as strong implications), Thragg should rag doll Zod, while Zod should be able to roast him alive if he manages to keep from having his eyes poked out at the beginning of the battle.

panthergod
Originally posted by deathslash
you don't have to be an authority on superman in order to know or state where other characters are in relation to him. If Stan Lee said that the silver surfer is superman level, then guess where he is.

Except not, as Stan Lee has no say on how powerful superman is. He doesn't get a vote beyond any fan supposition, really.

Now, if it was a defining superman writer, It may hold some weight.

panthergod
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Your usual stance at avoiding the debate by searching excuses is dully noted.

You are not in position to criticize my comprehension, your posts are full of bias, in the best case.



I've never said that he was alone doing the action, I said that Rogue's action was irrelevant, thus making it alike he was alone to perform the feat.

Again, you are in no position to criticize my comprehension.

You don't even get the nuances in what you are attempting to read.




This tells more about you than it tells about me.

Your childish attempt failed shortly. thumb up

I'm still waiting for the scans that are supposed to exist to prove your point and I will wait for a long time.

Your logic is laughabe. If Rogue was there aiding in the lifting feat, it's inadmissible as a solo showing. Sentry NEVER did that feat alone, period. It's a shared feat, exclusively.

The fact that you're too idiotic to grasp this is why every post you make is an inherent joke.

cdtm
Originally posted by panthergod
Except not, as Stan Lee has no say on how powerful superman is. He doesn't get a vote beyond any fan supposition, really.

Now, if it was a defining superman writer, It may hold some weight.

Didn't Joe Casey claim his probe busting Superman could have taken on Imperiex, right then and there?

Stoic
Originally posted by cdtm
Didn't Joe Casey claim his probe busting Superman could have taken on Imperiex, right then and there?

See what I mean? As fictitious characters go, you can raise their power level or lower it however much you please. It isn't as if any one particular writer has to place a hard limit on them as if they were some kind of real life power lifter with very real human limits.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by panthergod
Your logic is laughabe. If Rogue was there aiding in the lifting feat, it's inadmissible as a solo showing. Sentry NEVER did that feat alone, period. It's a shared feat, exclusively.

The fact that you're too idiotic to grasp this is why every post you make is an inherent joke.

The fact that you are too idiotic to grasp the fact that Rogue's help was unnoticeable by Exitar is laughable.

The power of Exitar is just VASTLY beyond the power of all heroes on Earth combined.

Again, you have no sense of scale.

panthergod
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The fact that you are too idiotic to grasp the fact that Rogue's help was unnoticeable by Exitar is laughable.

The power of Exitar is just VASTLY beyond the power of all heroes on Earth combined.
Hey idiot... two people lifting something means neither person did it alone.

period.

Until you grasp this everything you say is worth less than shit.

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