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1) Superman vs. Thawne.
2) Superman vs. Barry Allen.
3) Superman vs. Hunter Zolomon.
4) Superman vs. Wally West.
5) Superman vs. Bart Allen as the Flash.

Which of the speedsters does Superman beat? Which of them is he faster (He can fly)?

Oh, you are FURIOUS.

And He beats all except current Thawn. Classic version he explicitly beat, and was competitive in speed, too.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/3765645-2630106-supeszoom1.jpg
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/3765648-2630107-supeszoom2.jpg

Forum setting, all but Bart win

1) Superman vs. Thawne. Thawne
2) Superman vs. Barry Allen. Barry
3) Superman vs. Hunter Zolomon. Hunter
4) Superman vs. Wally West. Wally
5) Superman vs. Bart Allen as the Flash. Superman

doesn't take away that current superman is trans level, but forum Flash is just too op

Is this a race or a fight?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is this a race or a fight? I'm reasonably certain he is essentially asking both. Which do Superman beat in a fight, who is he faster than while flying?

Superman against forum Flash. All of them win, with ease.

Not even close.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Forum setting, all but Bart win
This, both fighting and racing.

Flash isn't beating Superman in a fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is this a race or a fight?

Both. I apologize, I thought that was clear.

Originally posted by panthergod
Oh, you are FURIOUS.

And He beats all except current Thawn. Classic version he explicitly beat, and was competitive in speed, too.


Que?

I think this ruffles your feathers significantly. Me, I just think it's funny. Besides, the Flash vs Superman mentality is getting a little contagious. It'd be nice to have it in a thread.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Forum setting, all but Bart win

Technically, Bart was the most powerful Flash IIRC. He had few feats, but what he did accomplish? Arguably the fastest and most powerful. At least I believe that was the intention. It's been a while.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Technically, Bart was the most powerful Flash IIRC. He had few feats, but what he did accomplish? Arguably the fastest and most powerful. At least I believe that was the intention. It's been a while.
At one point, yes, he was definitely considered the fastest.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Technically, Bart was the most powerful Flash IIRC. He had few feats, but what he did accomplish? Arguably the fastest and most powerful. At least I believe that was the intention. It's been a while.

he was most powerful in Flash: The Fastest Man Alive mini

certainly not more powerful than these other speedsters best though

Originally posted by MrMind
he was most powerful in Flash: The Fastest Man Alive mini

certainly not more powerful than these other speedsters best though

He has the entirety of the Speed Force in him there(also in INFINITE CRISIS when he came back after Superboy Prime killed Conner, why Jay said he couldn't feel the Speed Force when Bart took Superboy Prime to it, and was at least partly why he came back older). He should have been far more powerful, but I don't think he did much to prove it.

^^^yeah, i think plans for him were just derailed due to fan backlash and or lack of interest.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1) Superman vs. Thawne.
2) Superman vs. Barry Allen.
3) Superman vs. Hunter Zolomon.
4) Superman vs. Wally West.
5) Superman vs. Bart Allen as the Flash.

Which of the speedsters does Superman beat? Which of them is he faster (He can fly)?

Forum rules at their best I guess.

When flying he matches them all in speed.
In a fight he should win without bfr, with bfr a smart flash will just imprison him in the speed force.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^yeah, i think plans for him were just derailed due to fan backlash and or lack of interest.

Bart having the entirety of the Speed Force? If that's what you mean, since it was a mini, unless there's something about him changing the plot at some point, I'm assuming it was already laid out he'd have Bart's clone(don't remember his actual name other than he was a Thawne) kill him and the process got Wally back.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He has the entirety of the Speed Force in him there(also in INFINITE CRISIS when he came back after Superboy Prime killed Conner, why Jay said he couldn't feel the Speed Force when Bart took Superboy Prime to it, and was at least partly why he came back older). He should have been far more powerful, but I don't think he did much to prove it.


that mini was such bullshit, the writer gave hunter zoom time travel ability
also he wrote bart to death by plot device, removing his power then self sacrifice, what a lame ending

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Forum rules at their best I guess.

When flying he matches them all in speed.
In a fight he should win without bfr, with bfr a smart flash will just imprison him in the speed force.

or steal his speed

he's not faster than any of them at their best imo. a fight is different. he's fast enough to be able to tag them and durable enough to tank what they throw at him. the thing he cannot counter is speed steal. the ones who've demonstrated that (and by this time i forget who has and hasn't) would beat him, rather conclusively i'd think.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
When flying he matches them all in speed.

How can you think this? You could argue when flying, the gap is not quite as big. That's about it.

Originally posted by leonidas
he's not faster than any of them at their best imo. a fight is different. he's fast enough to be able to tag them and durable enough to tank what they throw at him. the thing he cannot counter is speed steal. the ones who've demonstrated that (and by this time i forget who has and hasn't) would beat him, rather conclusively i'd think.

Between their superior speed, reflexes, and ability to vibrate through attacks, he shouldn't ever hit a serious Flash like Wally. Especially since they're faster than his long range attacks.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How can you think this? You could argue when flying, the gap is not quite as big. That's about it.



Between their superior speed, reflexes, and ability to vibrate through attacks, he shouldn't ever hit a serious Flash like Wally. Especially since they're faster than his long range attacks.

Because if he is so close behind them and above other flashes while running, flying pretty much takes this handicapp of him, of course not in an atmosphere where he has to take care of not damaging others while going full speed as he has no speed force to preserve his surrounding from the effects of such a speed.

Speed is (on an planet) slightly in their favor but not that much above him that he can't perceive, react or tag them. I am with you that they can't avoid being beaten for some time but they will be tagged. On the other hand, a flash can't ko a serious Superman who speeds up his perception to their or near their levels. A fight between a serious Superman and a serious Flash where both are ready would be like a fight between a very fast runner who can "run away" if he chooses to and Muhammad Ali.

No, Wally would make Clark's balls explode with several IMPs.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Because if he is so close behind them and above other flashes while running,

How is he close behind them while running? What gave you that idea? We literally just saw how Superman compares to a serious Flash.

Conclusion: He doesn't compare.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
flying pretty much takes this handicapp of him, of course not in an atmosphere where he has to take care of not damaging others while going full speed as he has no speed force to preserve his surrounding from the effects of such a speed.

Speed is (on an planet) slightly in their favor but not that much above him that he can't perceive, react or tag them. I am with you that they can't avoid being beaten for some time but they will be tagged. On the other hand, a flash can't ko a serious Superman who speeds up his perception to their or near their levels. A fight between a serious Superman and a serious Flash where both are ready would be like a fight between a very fast runner who can "run away" if he chooses to and Muhammad Ali.

This is a sound assesssment. Except it hinges on the idea that Superman is somehow competitive or close to a Flash like Wally or Barry in speed, much less Zoom at full power. A Flash is far faster than Superman when they're serious or really tapping into the SF.

I can think of a few ways a creative Flash could defeat Superman imo.

Read the text here.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/66557/1501062-jla__3_pg06.jpg
This is what Superman fighting a speedster is going to wind up looking like, whether he (Supes) is running or flying.

Characters like Kryptonians, Martians (white or green), Daxamites etc., or individually gifted speedsters like WW and CM, who arent connected to the SF, just dont compare in terms of sheer power, to the Flashes.
They are on another level.

Originally posted by leonidas
he's not faster than any of them at their best imo. a fight is different. he's fast enough to be able to tag them and durable enough to tank what they throw at him. the thing he cannot counter is speed steal. the ones who've demonstrated that (and by this time i forget who has and hasn't) would beat him, rather conclusively i'd think.
Speed steal has never beaten Superman. He isn't inertia with Zoom's powers. He generates his own speed and Flash has never been able to strip speed completely from such a character. Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is he close behind them while running? What gave you that idea? We literally just saw how Superman compares to a serious Flash.

Conclusion: He doesn't compare.


This is a sound assesssment. Except it hinges on the idea that Superman is somehow competitive or close to a Flash like Wally or Barry in speed, much less Zoom at full power. A Flash is far faster than Superman when they're serious or really tapping into the SF.

I can think of a few ways a creative Flash could defeat Superman imo.
You mean like where Flash had a gargantuan headstart and yet Superman closed in on them?

Or in Metal where Superman matched Barry going at full speed?

Or in Titans where Wally was stated to be faster than ever but Superman looked faster when flying and lost narrowly on foot?

Or in Batman The Dark Knight where Superman kept up with Flash going around Earth easily?

Or in Final Crisis where Superman matched Flash entering Darkseid singularity?

Or in Superman 709 where Superman caught Flash on foot?

Or in JLA classified where Superman caught an out of control Wally?

Need some more comparisons?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is he close behind them while running? What gave you that idea? We literally just saw how Superman compares to a serious Flash.

Conclusion: He doesn't compare.


This is a sound assesssment. Except it hinges on the idea that Superman is somehow competitive or close to a Flash like Wally or Barry in speed, much less Zoom at full power. A Flash is far faster than Superman when they're serious or really tapping into the SF.

I can think of a few ways a creative Flash could defeat Superman imo.

So at this point, you're just purposely flat out lying.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
How is he close behind them while running? What gave you that idea? We literally just saw how Superman compares to a serious Flash.

Conclusion: He doesn't compare.


This is a sound assesssment. Except it hinges on the idea that Superman is somehow competitive or close to a Flash like Wally or Barry in speed, much less Zoom at full power. A Flash is far faster than Superman when they're serious or really tapping into the SF.

I can think of a few ways a creative Flash could defeat Superman imo.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111277625/5681761-flashreflex2.jpg
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-cc780a8fec2d18c162584be9bafb2976-chttps://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e6e560dfd266c1ceb85f85a1a52589bd-c
https://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/DC-1st-Flash-Superman-1-2002.jpg
https://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Adventures-of-Superman-463-1990-2-802x1024.jpg

Facts and comics make me say this. And it's even established as a fact recently that he is close behind the 3 fastest Flashes ever while running. You are acting, (your intention is pure hypocritical and spiteful against Abhi), as if one is so much slower than the other that he has not a prayer of a chance. This is absolutely illogical considering all their showings.

If Flash would fight the Hulk I could agree, the speed differenc is so huge that one would be a statue and couldn't react to the known flash tactics, but Supes is too close to give Flash a real chance. Flash would be a fly, avoiding getting hit but not being fast enough to ko someone who is nearly as fast as him but far more durable. Once the stronger, nearly as fast one connects with a fiststrike it's over.

Conclusion: All out Flash and All out Superman can only have one winner (without bfr), Superman 10/10.

Superman "couldn't quite crack the top 3" can mean he's right behind them or he's the closest behind the top 3 who are on another level. The latter is more likely based on what happened. For example: Zum was really fast, fast enough to give Wally serious trouble. Until he tapped into the SF further and could punch him a thousand times before he blinks.

Those are your examples? I've seen Flash getting to a nuclear weapon that Superman had trouble catching and evacuating the entire city's population. Move so fast that CoIE heroes couldn't perceive him including Superman etc. During the Waid era, when the SF was elaborated on, it went from being competitive, to somewhat competitive, to its only ever competitive because Flash lets it happen. The difference in speed is astronomical, and it boggles my mind how you can bring up Flash war for evidence.

https://s8.postimg.cc/457310r81/RCO009.jpg

"I couldn't....catch up to them. They're...going too fast. "

The Flashes proceeded to run casually and not even notice his presence. They soon after go even FASTER to break into the Speed-Force.

https://s8.postimg.cc/xkcra1iwx/RCO012.jpghttps://s8.postimg.cc/zc5q4y9zl/RCO013.jpg

A few pages later, Superman is one-shot knocked out by Hunter before he can even react:
https://s8.postimg.cc/lihdfwwtt/RCO015.jpg

Btw, in first scan, that was Barry's first ever encounter with Supeeman. He didn't even know he had noticeable super speed.

The last scan you posted is just confusing. Flash has gotten so MUCH faster than that, astronomically faster than Superman's own power increase. The second scan you posted? I'm assuming you didn't read the mini or? I didn't respond in the character ownage thread, because that's not the context thread. Did you find those scans on google or something? SMH. Let's make a Luke Cage vs Superman thread and post scans of Superman who was stronger than a locomotive as evidence.

FYI, all the past Superman and Flash races were addressed in Post-Crisis. How do they historically make sense given the levels Flash has reached? They don't, hence:
https://s22.postimg.cc/5fh322fzh/IMG_5495.png

Flash fact: Superman fans are a cowardly and sensitive lot.

You're reading too into it


He said they were going too fast. We don't know how much faster they were going. Just that they were faster. DC already said that Supes is #3 (or was it 4?). he is fast enough to possibly tag tham but not in a forum setting

Anyone else interested in giving their 2 cents? Extreme Superman fans (Aka not xjlx or DS etc.) will argue for Superman in a prep war with Thanos or an arm-wrestling match with Eternity so no shortage of responses.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You're reading too into it


He said they were going too fast. We don't know how much faster they were going. Just that they were faster. DC already said that Supes is #3 (or was it 4?). he is fast enough to possibly tag tham but not in a forum setting

Fast enough that they were casually running at a pace, that Superman couldn't touch them even while flying. And at a level where he was exhausted in one lap. Superman has a lot of stamina, they must have been operating at a level far beyond him (At THAT story at least) for him to be winded that fast while they were casual about it AND had extra gears.

Not trying to be rude or anything bro, but you have an actual comic appearance of their comparison. Why are you bringing up a list that no writer will care about in a month?

Originally posted by MrMind

that mini was such bullshit, the writer gave hunter zoom time travel ability
also he wrote bart to death by plot device, removing his power then self sacrifice, what a lame ending

I actually liked it, showing how Bart had grown, culminating in when he lost his powers, still had to face the Rogues, and showed what he could do with his training and a few pieces of equipment. Was a dick move to have him die after that, though.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fast enough that they were casually running at a pace, that Superman couldn't touch them even while flying. And at a level where he was exhausted in one lap. Superman has a lot of stamina, they must have been operating at a level far beyond him (At THAT story at least) for him to be winded that fast while they were casual about it AND had extra gears.

Not trying to be rude or anything bro, but you have an actual comic appearance of their comparison. Why are you bringing up a list that no writer will care about in a month?
WAIT WAIT WAIT

You don't care about the list?

If we don't go by that list, there are DOZENS of other races between Flash and Superman which shows a much tighter race. Evidently, you're using the latest one. Yet when people attempted to use that Thor's most recent feat (Jane and the Sun BS), you quickly disregarded based on previous similar feats.

Don't be hypocritical.

I'm merely using the DC based on how DC as a company views this. If we are actually going to base this argument on the feats and previous bouts, it's much closer.

Flash admitted that he always held back against Superman in races and he proved it right after. Their races are cute and all but it doesnt come close to proving Superman is anywhere near Flash speed, especially since he admitted he was holding back the entire time which led to Superman seeing nothing but a streak from Flash. They are not comparable.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash admitted that he always held back against Superman in races and he proved it right after. Their races are cute and all but it doesnt come close to proving Superman is anywhere near Flash speed, especially since he admitted he was holding back the entire time which led to Superman seeing nothing but a streak from Flash. They are not comparable.
post that scan PLEASE

Originally posted by xJLxKing
post that scan PLEASE

Originally posted by Delta1938

What? He will be posting this image

https://i.stack.imgur.com/h2vAt.jpg

That is clearly Superman running...


Rage is just being a complete hypocrite. Carver just wants Superman to lose.

No one is arguing that Superman is faster. But the fact that both of them have an agenda that to make it seem like Superman is very slow. This isn't a Thor vs Wolverine, where we see Wolverine making circles around Thor.

And the ironic part is, Rage says,

Yet, when people present him with scans OF OTHER WRITERS showing a Superman who is much closer to Flash in terms of speed, he wants to disregard it based on the most recent feat.
We might as well say at this point, Thor has durability that can not withstand the Sun's temperature

Originally posted by xJLxKing
What? He will be posting this image

https://i.stack.imgur.com/h2vAt.jpg

That is clearly Superman running...


Rage is just being a complete hypocrite. Carver just wants Superman to lose.

No one is arguing that Superman is faster. But the fact that both of them have an agenda that to make it seem like Superman is very slow. This isn't a Thor vs Wolverine, where we see Wolverine making circles around Thor.

And the ironic part is, Rage says,

Yet, when people present him with scans OF OTHER WRITERS showing a Superman who is much closer to Flash in terms of speed, he wants to disregard it based on the most recent feat.
We might as well say at this point, Thor has durability that can not withstand the Sun's temperature

Oh I know he was going to post it. I thought you were setting him up, hence the because he's had it pointed out before how Barry's charged by Professor Zoom in that scene, and yet another example of him being corrected only to use it again later. If you were and I ****ed it up, my bad.

Stop it! I'm sure Carver read Flash Rebirth #1-3. He would never try and twist what happens on panel to suit his agenda. That's unlike Carver

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Stop it! I'm sure Carver read Flash Rebirth #1-3. He would never try and twist what happens on panel to suit his agenda. That's unlike Carver

He's read each issue 79 times and got personal insight and confirmation from Johns himself. He told me do, and I believe Carter, he's an honest and honorable chap.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman "couldn't quite crack the top 3" can mean he's right behind them or he's the closest behind the top 3 who are on another level. The latter is more likely based on what happened. For example: Zum was really fast, fast enough to give Wally serious trouble. Until he tapped into the SF further and could punch him a thousand times before he blinks.

Except he is. Reverse Flash has himself said Superman rivals his own speed.

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f858c922f4728d531f1a676e61138ee5-c

But hey, let's only count what favors Flash, shall we?

I've seen Electric Superman move so fast Wally could barely see him. Move so fast Wally could only watch helplessly.

Zum isn't Superman. Morrison had Superman AND the Flash go at absolute speeds to reach Darkseid's singularity.



Except Flashes had a huge head start and Superman still almost caught them with no buildup whatsoever.



So never ran a race, have you?



Who cheapshotted the whole team while he was powered up by two different forces?

Kal L straight up oneshotted Zoom. Under Johns no less.

Even Bizarro has matched Zoom going as fast as he could.



Neither did Superman.

And yet, Flash fans and writer have so much inferiority complex towards Superman. I mean really, you're worse than Carver when it comes to Superman.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Graviton wins 8/10 times.



That doesn't mean Graviton would be unable to affect Flash or gravity has no limitations on him. SF allows him to counter the laws of physics, but it does not mean he is beyond them, he isn't. Especially in that era (I don't remember if that scan is before he transcended or before but it's close to the time period).

Flash being able to KO Graviton before he can react in a picosecond is only a little less likely than Graviton turning the Flash into paste instantly with his gravity.

I swear, some of these scenarios/claims...they are the exact opposite of what someone who consistently reads the Flash would actually claim.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I have read every Flash appearance since Barry's death in CoIE. I was defending Wally before being a Flash fan was popular.

This isn't about PIS. This is about actually knowing the characters? For example, I am assuming this Barry (The current Flash), speed stealing and SF manipulation is something Wally is far more proficient at. It does say PC (Which means Wally technically, but who knows.)

Or people saying he can run in space or air. I'm mad at myself for making that argument a decade ago. In retrospect, I was being too zealous. There are maybe 2/3 scenes that imply that he can, and about 200 that he can't?

Regardless, you can think of them as self-imposed limitations, mental blocks if you will. Or the limits of the SF. For every 1 high end feat, there is literally 5 more from the same writer that disproves the notion he wins easily, or even that he wins at all.

Graviton is especially a rogue that would give Flash hell due to the nature of his power set. I think this would be an interesting match up. Maybe speed blitz for the initial win if Iris or Linda is in mortal danger. Otherwise Graviton imo.

I'm guessing averages of a character work only if the said character isn't against Superman in a thread.

I should put Flash against Thor or Hulk. Let's see your reaction then, huh?



Nice bait. Guess what, this very same writer had Superman casually match and even exceed Barry going "as fast as he can".

https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/36403321_Dark_Nights_-_Metal_2017-_003-024.jpg https://s7d2.turboimg.net/t1/36403323_Dark_Nights_-_Metal_2017-_003-025.jpg

Superman actually won the race across the world.

https://s1.postimg.cc/6dwkw5phi3/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.cc/4wqfuem7mj/image.jpg https://s1.postimg.cc/7nzi2h96jf/image.jpg

Guess Superman is unmatched when flying after all.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He's read each issue 79 times and got personal insight and confirmation from Johns himself. He told me do, and I believe Carter, he's an honest and honorable chap. At least we got that settled. I'm sure Carver will be back here later with another scan. Which of course he will have gained personal insight on.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
At least we got that settled. I'm sure Carver will be back here later with another scan. Which of course he will have gained personal insight on.

We will all be wowed by the glory of carver9.

I also want to give a heads up that under the current flash writer, the Flash's family/group seem to help each other generate speed. That's kinda been the theme

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bo3vLpEFPvM/Ws3m8oxZT5I/AAAAAAAAFS8/1KxXIuZr4XAWSpsbJ3q0V2vDXzw2QO31wCHMYCw/s1600/RCO015.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OgRHPDYm4ac/Ws3m9AHNjdI/AAAAAAAAFTI/_fPrlQ7Ov68kmWMsY0IQN3UWgvyvXKU1QCHMYCw/s1600/RCO016.jpg

So if we are going to use the most recent "race", we should take into consideration that they somewhat "amped" each other.

Meh, he probably means the power of friendship and all that nonsense.

So is Superman faster than the Flash despite Flash always saying that he is the fastest man alive? I saw Abhi explaining the latest issue of Flash, which I was going to bring up. Superman did say that he couldn't catch Barry and Wally, because they were moving too fast, so I'm confused.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I also want to give a heads up that under the current flash writer, the Flash's family/group seem to help each other generate speed. That's kinda been the theme

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bo3vLpEFPvM/Ws3m8oxZT5I/AAAAAAAAFS8/1KxXIuZr4XAWSpsbJ3q0V2vDXzw2QO31wCHMYCw/s1600/RCO015.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OgRHPDYm4ac/Ws3m9AHNjdI/AAAAAAAAFTI/_fPrlQ7Ov68kmWMsY0IQN3UWgvyvXKU1QCHMYCw/s1600/RCO016.jpg

So if we are going to use the most recent "race", we should take into consideration that they somewhat "amped" each other.

This the only example? And there anything with more detail? If they truly are amped by being around each other, then damn.

Originally posted by Stoic
So is Superman faster than the Flash despite Flash always saying that he is the fastest man alive? I saw Abhi explaining the latest issue of Flash, which I was going to bring up. Superman did say that he couldn't catch Barry and Wally, because they were moving too fast, so I'm confused.
No one is really arguing Superman is faster than Flash (Barry and/or Wally).

But it seems a few members, Rage, Carver..etc are trying to imply that Superman's speed is far inferior to either Barry or Wally. The try to site the most recent Flash issue (#49). As Superman stated that they are too fast for him. Again, a few members are trying to put a lot of emphasis on the word, TOO; as if Superman is saying they are so much faster.

Now, when people like Abhi try to site other events that pitted Superman vs Flash, they are either dismissed or once again, an emphasis is put into a specific word. You also have Carver trying to site Flash Rebirth #3 despite the fact that Flash was amped and Superman was running.


All in all, Superman is slower, but he the difference is not as vast as Thor and Wolverine. They are peers; we know this not just by their history of racing, but DC even released a "statement" that Superman is ranked #4 in running speed, behind Wally, Barry, and Reverse Flash.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No one is really arguing Superman is faster than Flash (Barry and/or Wally).

But it seems a few members, Rage, Carver..etc are trying to imply that Superman's speed is far inferior to either Barry or Wally. The try to site the most recent Flash issue (#49). As Superman stated that they are too fast for him. Again, a few members are trying to put a lot of emphasis on the word, TOO; as if Superman is saying they are so much faster.

Now, when people like Abhi try to site other events that pitted Superman vs Flash, they are either dismissed or once again, an emphasis is put into a specific word. You also have Carver trying to site Flash Rebirth #3 despite the fact that Flash was amped and Superman was running.


All in all, Superman is slower, but he the difference is not as vast as Thor and Wolverine. They are peers; we know this not just by their history of racing, but DC even released a "statement" that Superman is ranked #4 in running speed, behind Wally, Barry, and Reverse Flash.

You've cited Rage arguing the most recent showing to dismiss prior, while arguing prior showings to dismiss the most recent of Mjolnir destroyed by the Sun. I figured I'd give something for carvy. He dismisses Superman breaking Soulfire Darkseid in half, despite The Source/Anti-Life Entity (merged back into one) couldn't scratch him, but dismisses DCnU Superman ripping DCnU Doomsday in half, because Wonder Woman's sword pierced him (ignoring it's not a normal sword, since it can literally cut atoms and cause nuclear explosions) but if his logic was consistent, he'd dismiss Wonder Woman piercing him because he destroyed the sword and kept fighting, so it didn't bother him.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
No one is really arguing Superman is faster than Flash (Barry and/or Wally).

But it seems a few members, Rage, Carver..etc are trying to imply that Superman's speed is far inferior to either Barry or Wally. The try to site the most recent Flash issue (#49). As Superman stated that they are too fast for him. Again, a few members are trying to put a lot of emphasis on the word, TOO; as if Superman is saying they are so much faster.

Now, when people like Abhi try to site other events that pitted Superman vs Flash, they are either dismissed or once again, an emphasis is put into a specific word. You also have Carver trying to site Flash Rebirth #3 despite the fact that Flash was amped and Superman was running.


All in all, Superman is slower, but he the difference is not as vast as Thor and Wolverine. They are peers; we know this not just by their history of racing, but DC even released a "statement" that Superman is ranked #4 in running speed, behind Wally, Barry, and Reverse Flash.

Ultimately, most of the flashes should be able to defeat Superman. Speed does in fact kill. They are able to land IMP hits and be considerable faster than Superman. I also don't see how Superman can stop the speed stealing.

Barry, Wally, and Bart have all shown that they can steel or lend speed.
Reverse Flash/Zoom/Prof Zoom all have shown they are faster than Superman.


Superman can take some win but not majority. That's just my opinion of course

Superman can tank an IMP. Easily.


Flashes have one ability that MIGHT be able to take out Superman.. Superman has... everything else.

Originally posted by panthergod
Superman can tank an IMP. Easily.


Flashes have one ability that MIGHT be able to take out Superman.. Superman has... everything else.
One ability that might?
Superman has no way of resisting speed steel.
Superman can most definitely take an IMP hit. I don't think he can take a lot of them.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Between their superior speed, reflexes, and ability to vibrate through attacks, he shouldn't ever hit a serious Flash like Wally. Especially since they're faster than his long range attacks.

meh, i don't think the vibrations would be very effective. i don't think the speed disparity is THAT major. the flashes would go physical or he could even possibly counter the vibrations with his own. they would need to physically beat him and i don't see that happening very often. the speed steal though? no real counter for that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Speed steal has never beaten Superman. He isn't inertia with Zoom's powers. He generates his own speed and Flash has never been able to strip speed completely from such a character.

huh. we saw jay steal his speed, and jay wasn't nearly as good with the SF as some of the guys here. we've seen the kinetic energy of a PLANET stolen, and surtur, and black adam....along with superman himself. far MORE than sufficient proof to suggest they could drain him completely. to say they haven't taken the speed of someone on his level is both wrong and a rather poor defense abhi.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, i don't think the vibrations would be very effective. i don't think the speed disparity is THAT major. the flashes would go physical or he could even possibly counter the vibrations with his own. they would need to physically beat him and i don't see that happening very often. the speed steal though? no real counter for that.



huh. we saw jay steal his speed, and jay wasn't nearly as good with the SF as some of the guys here. we've seen the kinetic energy of a PLANET stolen, and surtur, and black adam....along with superman himself. far MORE than sufficient proof to suggest they could drain him completely. to say they haven't taken the speed of someone on his level is both wrong and a rather poor defense abhi.
And Superman was still able to run just fine alongside Jay even then.

Nome of those characters were actually completely drained of speed.

of course not--he felt horrible draining inertia--but that doesn't mean he couldn't have continued to drain them, and like i said, jay wasn't as good as some of these others. i think it's an ability that can be countered by....VERY few. without it, i can't see a flash beating superman in a fight. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
of course not--he felt horrible draining inertia--but that doesn't mean he couldn't have continued to drain them, and like i said, jay wasn't as good as some of these others. i think it's an ability that can be countered by....VERY few. without it, i can't see a flash beating superman in a fight. /shrug

You cant see a Flash beating Superman? I'll help you see it...

https://postimg.cc/image/lihdfwwtt/

Originally posted by carver9
You cant see a Flash beating Superman? I'll help you see it...

https://postimg.cc/image/lihdfwwtt/

Are you this dense?!

Originally posted by SquallX
Are you this dense?!

it's not exactly the Zoom we are used to see.

Sage Force + Speed Force + Strength Force

Originally posted by leonidas
of course not--he felt horrible draining inertia--but that doesn't mean he couldn't have continued to drain them, and like i said, jay wasn't as good as some of these others. i think it's an ability that can be countered by....VERY few. without it, i can't see a flash beating superman in a fight. /shrug
Not really. Inertia had lost his power and was using Velocity 9 to artificially power himself up.

https://s22.postimg.cc/r5cldpmlp/image.jpg

As soon as his power returned, he was free from the speed steal.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
it's not exactly the Zoom we are used to see.

Sage Force + Speed Force + Strength Force

My point is, yes, Barry and Wally are indeed faster than Kal. But, this is not a race, but a fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. Inertia had lost his power and was using Velocity 9 to artificially power himself up.

https://s22.postimg.cc/r5cldpmlp/image.jpg

As soon as his power returned, he was free from the speed steal.

that doesn't really help your case though. extenuating circumstances clearly freed him--though i don't know the whole story. where's that from?

besides, he was frozen for a long time and it would be easy enough to simply repeat. there is no logical counter to the speed steal for superman. he uses kinetic energy. flash steals it. even if he slowed him to half, that would make the speed difference great enough that he couldn't counter a vibratory attack for example, maybe into the brain to ko him, or into the heart. just not seeing it happening for superman.

and carver--i wish there were like some SUPER ignore button. great proof. ffs

Originally posted by SquallX
My point is, yes, Barry and Wally are indeed faster than Kal. But, this is not a race, but a fight.

Yep.

Imo Superman can one-shot every speedster without problem.

At worse he can slow them down by surrounding the area with freeze breath. That will remove the friction on the ground too.

Flying doesnt help...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-37223b9819038201991950e45c3699aa-c

Any with the ability to speed steal beat him.

Originally posted by leonidas
that doesn't really help your case though. extenuating circumstances clearly freed him--though i don't know the whole story. where's that from?

Final Crisis Rogues Revenge.

Extenuating circumstances which just gave him his powers back.



Superman has shrugged off such attacks before.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/fullchronosuspension.jpg

Yes, there is counters. Superman generates his own speed, Flash can't strip it totally from him.

I know right.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Final Crisis Rogues Revenge.

Extenuating circumstances which just gave him his powers back.



Superman has shrugged off such attacks before.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/fullchronosuspension.jpg

Yes, there is counters. Superman generates his own speed, Flash can't strip it totally from him.

I know right.

when have you ever seen it either countered or fail? because i've seen neither, ever, except from another flash maybe....

Originally posted by carver9
Flying doesnt help...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-37223b9819038201991950e45c3699aa-c

And no way Carter could have left something out intentionally or unintentionally, because he's read it no less than 4 times and is the poster boy for honesty and integrity.