DOS Doomsday vs. Thor and Savage Hulk

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twt
DOS Doomsday vs. Thor and Savage Hulk

Without BFR

Who wins?

MaZeRaIII
Team.

carver9
Either solos

celeyhyga17
Team loses if they don't get serious

Adam Grimes
Is current Thor weaker, celey?

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Is current Thor weaker, celey?
Classic > Current. Not really by much.

Stoic
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Classic > Current. Not really by much.

Not by much? Thor was recently incapacitated by the cold. He used to comment on how cold things would become but never to the point of passing out, only to be upstaged by the She Hulk who completely resisted it. He's a lot weaker.

I've a feeling that Marvel is about to work the Thor Force into the character.

StiltmanFTW
Thor is a non-factor, good thing Hulk is here to save him from DD.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Stoic
Not by much? Thor was recently incapacitated by the cold. He used to comment on how cold things would become but never to the point of passing out, only to be upstaged by the She Hulk who completely resisted it. He's a lot weaker.

I've a feeling that Marvel is about to work the Thor Force into the character.
Ymir cold wasn't it?

I might as well use a bullet to the Dome amirite? What kind of debating is this?

XLR87T3
Savage Hulk fought Proxima Midnight, right? He did resist the weight of a star, otherwise he would have been smushed on the floor. He held it up by staying on all fours.

Hulk is stronger than Doomsday

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Thor is a non-factor, good thing Hulk is here to save him from DD. By being a good meatshield until Doomsday gets bored and eats them. evil face

MaZeRaIII
Hulk didn't resist the weight of star, that's fake news, man.

He was getting downed by it, not even able to stand up, that's not resisting, but the opposite of it.

On top of that Proxima's spear's energy has also engulfed Cap America and Corvus and they were also tanking that, so no weight of the star in both cases, that was hyperbole, given how Cap America's and Corvus's instances essentially debunk that there was weight of the star involved.

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111271301/5285064-2318713342-1tRPh.jpg

carver9
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Hulk didn't resist the weight of star, that's fake news, man.

He was getting downed by it, not even able to stand up, that's not resisting, but the opposite of it.

On top of that Proxima's spear's energy has also engulfed Cap America and Corvus and they were also tanking that, so no weight of the star in both cases, that was hyperbole, given how Cap America's and Corvus's instances essentially debunk that there was weight of the star involved.

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111271301/5285064-2318713342-1tRPh.jpg

Ok, you was doing good until you posted this. Proxima blades did more than just stab, it poisoned, etc... the attack she used against Cap was obviously different. You literally see black energy forming around Hulk ending with him falling to his knees...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138490/3475066-hulk_lifts_star_001_infinity_6_001.jpg

She activated an ability, AND, she left the swords inside of him that split into three blades...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138490/3475067-hulk_lifts_star_001_infinity_6_002.jpg

He had the weight of a star on him, no disputing this. By the end of it, Hulk was standing up which tells us he overpowered it...

https://alejo-panels.tumblr.com/image/172714503171

You posting a blade going through Cap that clearly doesnt match the above does not take away from the writer intention, and, the showing is completely different.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, you was doing good until you posted this. Yeah, not fan of nonsense really, sadly the whole weight of the star is one of those.

Originally posted by carver9
Proxima blades did more than just stab, it poisoned,

Poison? Sorry, but that's just fan-fiction right there. It's your typical energy weapon, no poisoning effect or statement was showcased.

Originally posted by carver9
the attack she used against Cap was obviously different. You literally see black energy forming around Hulk ending with him falling to his knees...

Sorry, but how is it different, also in my posted scan you can both Corvus and Cap covered in the same black energy as well as violet glow look properly the scan even marks where black energy is, and guess what no weight of the star nonsensial element there going on.

Plus you are only focusing on Cap, while forgetting Corvus, whose physical stats are just average to say the least, yet he tanked the same attack like nothing.

Originally posted by carver9


She activated an ability, AND, she left the swords inside of him that split into three blades...

Creating abilities out of nowhere, i see, with no confirmation of course.

Anyways, both Cap and Corvus thad the whole violet energy sword thing as well in them, yet again none of the same effects, so again weight of the star is just your typical hyperbole.

Originally posted by carver9


He had the weight of a star on him, no disputing this. By the end of it, Hulk was standing up which tells us he overpowered it...

Standing up? Sorry, but Hulk is on his knees and in pain, he was in such stance the moment he got attacked by the spear, there is no overpowering it in that scan, but the opposite of it, misinterpretating instances is not helping argument.

Also, once again, weight of the star was pure hyperbole, Corvus and Cap tanked it, people with average physical stats, if there was that level of weight present both would have been dead, maybe Cap could've had plot armor, but not Corvus.

Originally posted by carver9


You posting a blade going through Cap that clearly doesnt match the above does not take away from the writer intention, and, the showing is completely different.


First of all the blade's effects were clearly showcased on Cap, since we can see clear as day, that both had the violet glow and black energy glow were present in both Cap and Corvus, only blind person would ignore such aspect, my scan even marks the places where black energy is present, so yes, the showing is the exactly same given because of those glows the effects come, and no weight of the star hyperbole present as well.

So no, this instance lacks legitimacy in general.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
Ok, you was doing good until you posted this. Proxima blades did more than just stab, it poisoned, etc... the attack she used against Cap was obviously different. You literally see black energy forming around Hulk ending with him falling to his knees...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138490/3475066-hulk_lifts_star_001_infinity_6_001.jpg

She activated an ability, AND, she left the swords inside of him that split into three blades...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138490/3475067-hulk_lifts_star_001_infinity_6_002.jpg

He had the weight of a star on him, no disputing this. By the end of it, Hulk was standing up which tells us he overpowered it...

https://alejo-panels.tumblr.com/image/172714503171

You posting a blade going through Cap that clearly doesnt match the above does not take away from the writer intention, and, the showing is completely different.


The "weight of a star" is just a figure of style, Carver.

This is simply a Spear powered by the power of a star.

It doesn't weight like a star...



Wow ! Captain America and Corvus Glaive ARE SO STRONG!

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111271301/5285064-2318713342-1tRPh.jpg

carver9
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Yeah, not fan of nonsense really, sadly the whole weight of the star is one of those.



Poison? Sorry, but that's just fan-fiction right there. It's your typical energy weapon, no poisoning effect or statement was showcased.



Sorry, but how is it different, also in my posted scan you can both Corvus and Cap covered in the same black energy as well as violet glow look properly the scan even marks where black energy is, and guess what no weight of the star nonsensial element there going on.

Plus you are only focusing on Cap, while forgetting Corvus, whose physical stats are just average to say the least, yet he tanked the same attack like nothing.



Creating abilities out of nowhere, i see, with no confirmation of course.

Anyways, both Cap and Corvus thad the whole violet energy sword thing as well in them, yet again none of the same effects, so again weight of the star is just your typical hyperbole.



Standing up? Sorry, but Hulk is on his knees and in pain, he was in such stance the moment he got attacked by the spear, there is no overpowering it in that scan, but the opposite of it, misinterpretating instances is not helping argument.

Also, once again, weight of the star was pure hyperbole, Corvus and Cap tanked it, people with average physical stats, if there was that level of weight present both would have been dead, maybe Cap could've had plot armor, but not Corvus.




First of all the blade's effects were clearly showcased on Cap, since we can see clear as day, that both had the violet glow and black energy glow were present in both Cap and Corvus, only blind person would ignore such aspect, my scan even marks the places where black energy is present, so yes, the showing is the exactly same given because of those glows the effects come, and no weight of the star hyperbole present as well.

So no, this instance lacks legitimacy in general.

None of us have to be fans... doesnt take away from what happened.

Iirc, she poisoned Monica with them and she used them as tracers. Then the blades depowered Hulk. Versatility.

Look at the scene, they are completely different. I honestly shouldnt have to explain it. Just look at it. Cap isnt covered in Black energy.

Lol... Corvus did not have the weight of the star on him and he didnt tank anything. He was leaking from his face. The scenes are completely different.

The blades passed through Cap. The blades were stuck inside of Hulk and bright of them had black energy surrounding their bodies WHILE THE BLADES WERE STUCK INSIDE OF THEM. The scenes are not comparable. Look at the scene again please. Hulk is stabbed by three blades that gets stuck inside of him. Black energy starts forming around his entire body. He falls to the ground WITH THE BLADES STILL STUCK INSIDE OF HIM. Did this happen in the Cap scene?

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
None of us have to be fans... doesnt take away from what happened.

Iirc, she poisoned Monica with them and she used them as tracers. Then the blades depowered Hulk. Versatility.

Look at the scene, they are completely different. I honestly shouldnt have to explain it. Just look at it. Cap isnt covered in Black energy.

Lol... Corvus did not have the weight of the star on him and he didnt tank anything. He was leaking from his face. The scenes are completely different.

The blades passed through Cap. The blades were stuck inside of Hulk and bright of them had black energy surrounding their bodies WHILE THE BLADES WERE STUCK INSIDE OF THEM. The scenes are not comparable. Look at the scene again please. Hulk is stabbed by three blades that gets stuck inside of him. Black energy starts forming around his entire body. He falls to the ground WITH THE BLADES STILL STUCK INSIDE OF HIM. Did this happen in the Cap scene?

There is one blade stuck on Cap and two on Corvus...

That's the same attack anyway.

The Spear has only two mode of attacks: melee or throwed.

carver9
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The "weight of a star" is just a figure of style, Carver.

This is simply a Spear powered by the power of a star.

It doesn't weight like a star...



Wow ! Captain America and Corvus Glaive ARE SO STRONG!

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111271301/5285064-2318713342-1tRPh.jpg

My last post to you on this since you dont know what you're talking about. Still luv ya though...

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111164621/5656311-star+1.jpg

"My spear was forged from a sun trapped in distorted space/time. All at once it was a life given new star and also an all consuming new star".

Lol, its powered by a star, eh? It is a freaking star.

Last post to you, thanks for the reply.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
My last post to you on this since you dont know what you're talking about. Still luv ya though...

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111164621/5656311-star+1.jpg

"My spear was forged from a sun trapped in distorted space/time. All at once it was a life given new star and also an all consuming new star".

Lol, its powered by a star, eh? It is a freaking star.

Last post to you, thanks for the reply.

Bro, I know the context of that feat.

Proxima's spear has only two modes of attacks.

Hulk didn't get a special treatment compared to Cap or Corvus.

carver9
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Bro, I know the context of that feat.

Proxima's spear has only two modes of attacks.

Hulk didn't get a special treatment compared to Cap or Corvus.

Lol... its powered by a star? Hilarious.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by carver9
None of us have to be fans... doesnt take away from what happened. True it doesn't take away that the whole weight of the star is but traditional showcase of hyperbole.

Originally posted by carver9


Iirc, she poisoned Monica with them and she used them as tracers. Then the blades depowered Hulk. Versatility. Context, you are forgetting context, the reason Monica was poisoned was because the energy which blade applies consists of dark photons which counteracts with Monica's body's photons, thus causing painful side-effects on her body. But overall the blade has no unique posioning ability.

As for Hulk, that's some misleading statements you are bringing up, it didin't depower Hulk, he was simply knocked out by the attack.

Originally posted by carver9



Look at the scene, they are completely different. I honestly shouldnt have to explain it. Just look at it. Cap isnt covered in Black energy.

Cap is COVERED in black energy, my scan even marks the places where black energy is present, don't play blind, please.

Originally posted by carver9


Lol... Corvus did not have the weight of the star on him and he didnt tank anything. He was leaking from his face. The scenes are completely different.

There is nothing different, 2 attacks get stuck on Corvus, we see BOTH VIOLET GLOW AND BLACK ENERGY covering him, and he obviously tanked that, my scan once again has MARKED the places where black energy is present on Corvus, playing blind is not gonna work here. But yeah he didn't have the weight of the star just like Hulk didn't, it was a metaphor, nothing more.

Of course the scenes are different, but the effects and usage is same, they get speared, they get violet and black energy glow covering them.

Originally posted by carver9


The blades passed through Cap. The blades were stuck inside of Hulk and bright of them had black energy surrounding their bodies WHILE THE BLADES WERE STUCK INSIDE OF THEM. The scenes are not comparable.

The scenes are comparable, look at the scan properly, 1 blade was stuck on Cap, the other 2 were on Corvus, both had violet and black energy glow thus the effects of the blad were present, yet they tanked it.

Originally posted by carver9


Look at the scene again please. Hulk is stabbed by three blades that gets stuck inside of him. Black energy starts forming around his entire body. He falls to the ground WITH THE BLADES STILL STUCK INSIDE OF HIM. Did this happen in the Cap scene?

Yep, Cap got 1 blade stuck inside him and we even see black energy forming as well, same with Corvus except he had 2 blades stuck in him as well as black energy.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
Lol... its powered by a star? Hilarious.

Oh you're right. That's not even powered by a star, just forged from a star...

There is not a single argument left to say it has the weight of a star. That was definitly hyperbolic.

celeyhyga17
It's clear she activated an ability of the spear. She mentions it hear when she talks of a "denser" net.
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111164621/5656311-star+1.jpg



Whether it was the weight of a star is debatable. It didn't look like he powered through it at all. More a durability feat because he was pinned down for the most part until she retrieved the spear. Another thing is it sounded hyperboloic. But it was clear there was some kind of gravity manipulation of some sort.

carver9
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
True it doesn't take away that the whole weight of the star is but traditional showcase of hyperbole.

Context, you are forgetting context, the reason Monica was poisoned was because the energy which blade applies consists of dark photons which counteracts with Monica's body's photons, thus causing painful side-effects on her body. But overall the blade has no unique posioning ability.

As for Hulk, that's some misleading statements you are bringing up, it didin't depower Hulk, he was simply knocked out by the attack.



Cap is COVERED in black energy, my scan even marks the places where black energy is present, don't play blind, please.



There is nothing different, 2 attacks get stuck on Corvus, we see BOTH VIOLET GLOW AND BLACK ENERGY covering him, and he obviously tanked that, my scan once again has MARKED the places where black energy is present on Corvus, playing blind is not gonna work here. But yeah he didn't have the weight of the star just like Hulk didn't, it was a metaphor, nothing more.

Of course the scenes are different, but the effects and usage is same, they get speared, they get violet and black energy glow covering them.



The scenes are comparable, look at the scan properly, 1 blade was stuck on Cap, the other 2 were on Corvus, both had violet and black energy glow thus the effects of the blad were present, yet they tanked it.



Yep, Cap got 1 blade stuck inside him and we even see black energy forming as well, same with Corvus except he had 2 blades stuck in him as well as black energy.

This is borderline crazy. The inaccuracy of a lot of things you are saying is mind boggling. Her blade depowered him which is the reason Banner asked "damn, how did you do that".

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111164621/5656313-star+3.jpg

I'm not as patient as anyone else on here going back and forth on obvious wrong. When you say one thing wrong, it just ruins the experience of me wanting to debate against you.

leonidas
lol classic case of reading into something that you want to see. thumb up this is what happens when we die on a hill of literal interpretations in comic books.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It's clear she activated an ability of the spear. She mentions it hear when she talks of a "denser" net.
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111164621/5656311-star+1.jpg

There is no ability to activate, it's automatic, as showcased by every time someone gets hit by that spear.

As for that density net, it has nothing to do with Spear's ability overall, it's more like as in the energy spear to be tough enough to pierce Hulk, that's what it means by denser net. But overall it has little value in conversation.


Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Whether it was the weight of a star is debatable. It didn't look like he powered through it at all.

There is nothing to debate, both Cap and Corvus tanked that attack, 2 charaters with average strength and durability, if it truly induced effect of star, they would be dead or at least KO'd.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

More a durability feat because he was pinned down for the most part until she retrieved the spear. Another thing is it sounded hyperboloic. But it was clear there was some kind of gravity manipulation of some sort.

More or less accurate, though the feat is unquantifiable, when you have both Cap and Corvus tanking the same attack as well.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by carver9
This is borderline crazy. The inaccuracy of a lot of things you are saying is mind boggling.

The Irony of old still stands strong.

Originally posted by carver9


Her blade depowered him which is the reason Banner asked "damn, how did you do that".

You are reading way too much into it, THERE IS NO STATEMENT confirming that she depowered Hulk, show me at least one confirmation, - Banner was simply suprised that Hulk was KO'd, as it is not such easy task to accomplish, that's why he asked "how did you do that"

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not as patient as anyone else on here going back and forth on obvious wrong. When you say one thing wrong, it just ruins the experience of me not wanting to debate against you.

Glad we agree on obvious wrong part, because so far the evidence supports my argumental position.

Also, no offence, but just because you say my argumental side is wrong, doesn't automatically make it wrong, i and even RW have presented evidence to back up our claims, simple as that really.

Ruining experience? How exactly? By correcting that your position is incorrect one?

Damborgson
When has Hulk been ko'd without Banner also being ko'd though?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
It's clear she activated an ability of the spear. She mentions it hear when she talks of a "denser" net.
https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11116/111164621/5656311-star+1.jpg



Whether it was the weight of a star is debatable. It didn't look like he powered through it at all. More a durability feat because he was pinned down for the most part until she retrieved the spear. Another thing is it sounded hyperboloic. But it was clear there was some kind of gravity manipulation of some sort.

thumb up

DarkSaint85
Is this where Black Panther's shields tank the weight of a sun?

https://s5.postimg.cc/99onru6oj/New_Avengers_2013-_024-024.jpg

StiltmanFTW
She doesn't use it all the time.

It's like saying that every ki blast is a kamehameha, lol.

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Damborgson
When has Hulk been ko'd without Banner also being ko'd though?

https://pm1.narvii.com/6351/195f6f1c2d2f1d6a8369e4ff6187e77cace9a474_hq.jpg

thumb up

Just for LoB:

https://pm1.narvii.com/6374/4069faa37d99c8d6a44942297f5cb4ce213f67e2_hq.jpg

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
There is no ability to activate, it's automatic, as showcased by every time someone gets hit by that spear.

As for that density net, it has nothing to do with Spear's ability overall, it's more like as in the energy spear to be tough enough to pierce Hulk, that's what it means by denser net. But overall it has little value in conversation.

Disagree. Maybe if a similar thing was mentioned with the hits on Cap and Corvus, I would be more inclined to agree with u. All signs point to gravity manipulation. She mentions "weight of a star".

And this bit with the spear tough enough to pierce the Hulk doesn't really jive with what happened.

Btw Odinson has taken a hit on the face and it was never an automatic thing with this star thingy.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c9A9I386RyU/WOzYuxTKUUI/AAAAAAADJxY/i7WhkCTi7tMbMcF8XU8xSsLQH-KU6wgAACLcB/s1600/84_14.jpg

DarkSaint85
This is all we have ever seen as an explanation - and even then it was false, lol:

When thrown, the spear transforms into three tracers of black light. These cannot be evaded:

https://s5.postimg.cc/8lft8j5ab/5zs4y_QU.jpg

Damborgson
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://pm1.narvii.com/6351/195f6f1c2d2f1d6a8369e4ff6187e77cace9a474_hq.jpg

thumb up

Just for LoB:

https://pm1.narvii.com/6374/4069faa37d99c8d6a44942297f5cb4ce213f67e2_hq.jpg

The first one was 30 seconds later, which is how long the guy was out for I assume from the groggy speaking

The second one has always been ambiguous, because it was right at that time that Thor broke the hold on the Hulk.

DarkSaint85
Lol I was kidding, Thor bag thumb up

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
https://pm1.narvii.com/6351/195f6f1c2d2f1d6a8369e4ff6187e77cace9a474_hq.jpg


Residual lightning 🌩 4teh loss.

Beating Hulk is easier than I thought. Might as well use tasers.



















stick out tongue

Damborgson
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol I was kidding, Thor bag thumb up

Oh. laughing out loud

You suck at that no expression

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Disagree. Maybe if a similar thing was mentioned with the hits on Cap and Corvus, I would be more inclined to agree with u. All signs point to gravity manipulation. She mentions "weight of a star".

Again, you are assuming nothing but headcanon, with no confirmation to yours about grav manipulation, i already explained that DENSER NET means making her spear tough enough to PIERCE Hulk, it has nothing to do with the effects that black energy does to the opponent, never was stated to do, nor showcased, simple as that.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17


And this bit with the spear tough enough to pierce the Hulk doesn't really jive with what happened.

Except it does, making something denser means making something more durable that's the definition of making something more dense, the only logical explanation is that Hulk's tough guy thus it is needed a more durable weapon to pierce him, simple as that.



Originally posted by celeyhyga17

Btw Odinson has taken a hit on the face and it was never an automatic thing with this star thingy.


Different writer with different interpretation of how powers work, show me SAME WRITER doing the same and you would have a point here, on top of that different artists portray effects differently as well (there is no violet glow as well there), so let's not forget that.

But anyways the whole star thingy was nothing but pure hyperbole, Cap tanked it, Corvus tanked it, and as you showcased Thor tanked it as well, same with Panther.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
She doesn't use it all the time.

It's like saying that every ki blast is a kamehameha, lol. Provide evidence that it is turn on/off ability, so far it was shown as automatic, what you see is nothing but different artist and writer, thus the effects are interpreted and drawn differently, but work in the same way anyways as the core of the abilities remain the same regardless what writer, also let's not act surprised after all if Cap could tank it, then so can Panther.

carver9
This is hilarious. I knew Dark would be in here.

NemeBro
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Except it does, making something denser means making something more durable that's the definition of making something more dense, the only logical explanation is that Hulk's tough guy thus it is needed a more durable weapon to pierce him, simple as that. Density is defined as mass per unit of volume. Making the spears denser would by definition increase the mass per unit volume of the spear, which would increase its weight.

There really isn't any way around this, you're just 100% wrong here my man. thumb up

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by NemeBro
Density is defined as mass per unit of volume. Making the spears denser would by definition increase the mass per unit volume of the spear, which would increase its weight.

There really isn't any way around this, you're just 100% wrong here my man. thumb up

Cool you defined density, but not increasing it in proper terms especially not comic variation of it, you would be correct, if in mass part, if spear's actually became BIGGER and HEAVIER ala Giant Man essentially, but since there is no visual mass change effect whatsoever nor any evidence for that matter, then you are wrong in this regard, and in this part your argument falls flat.

Then there is another factor playing which has spear increasing density without getting additional mass, ie decreasing volume for additional density, which is supported in comics as that spear transforms into 3 small spears thus less volume and more density.

Also incresing density of the spear (even though it didn't grow bigger) doesn't mean it automatically changes the effects of black energy induces, which is a different aspect of spear's capabilities.

You tried well, but fell short a bit.

-Pr-
Guys, be careful as regards the relationship between density and weight. Both of the big two play fast and loose with that connection.

I know sweet **** all about Proxima's weapons mind you; it's just a general comment.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, be careful as regards the relationship between density and weight. Both of the big two play fast and loose with that connection.

I know sweet **** all about Proxima's weapons mind you; it's just a general comment.

Well, in the Proxima/Hulk example, we have both density and weight statements, so the intent seems perfectly clear.

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Well, in the Proxima/Hulk example, we have both density and weight statements, so the intent seems perfectly clear.

If that's true then what's the issue?

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Well, in the Proxima/Hulk example, we have both density and weight statements, so the intent seems perfectly clear.

Except the weight was hyperbole in basic form, by that logic of yours both Cap and Corvus tanked weight of the star, since the same effect was on them as well, it was pure hyperbole, it was explained countless times by now though.

As for density it merely references Spear's ability to turn into 3 small spears by creating less volume in each spear but more density.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by -Pr-
If that's true then what's the issue? Misunderstandings of what "density" part really represents.

As well as hyperbolic aspect of weight statement, and counter-evidence completely irradicating that aspect.

carver9
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Misunderstandings of what "density" part really represents.

As well as hyperbolic aspect of weight statement, and counter-evidence completely irradicating that aspect.

How much did the spear weigh?

carver9
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Except the weight was hyperbole in basic form, by that logic of yours both Cap and Corvus tanked weight of the star, since the same effect was on them as well, it was pure hyperbole, it was explained countless times by now though.

As for density it merely references Spear's ability to turn into 3 small spears by creating less volume in each spear but more density.

Why did Hulk fall to his knees when he was hit by the spear and couldnt stand?

-Pr-
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Misunderstandings of what "density" part really represents.

As well as hyperbolic aspect of weight statement, and counter-evidence completely irradicating that aspect.

Going purely by the scans posted in this thread, it looked to me like she was using a different attack on Hulk than she had intended for Cap.

Her dialogue supports that too.

Where's the contradictory evidence?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
If that's true then what's the issue?

Relevant scans were already posted.

Infinity #6.

1. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11126/111260040/4890850-9865089673-34750.jpg
2. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11130/111304429/5926283-6839496394-36733.jpg

If you want to bust carver for massive trolling, then by all means, do us all a favour and check out "Can current Wonder Woman actually beat any of these Marvel heroes" thread, not this one.

XLR87T3

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Relevant scans were already posted.

Infinity #6.

1. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11126/111260040/4890850-9865089673-34750.jpg
2. https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11130/111304429/5926283-6839496394-36733.jpg

If you want to bust carver for massive trolling, then by all means, do us all a favour and check out "Can current Wonder Woman actually beat any of these Marvel heroes" thread, not this one.

Funny you should say that, I thought Carver wasn't the one that was in the wrong, so maybe I need to re-read.

I'll have a ook.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Funny you should say that, I thought Carver wasn't the one that was in the wrong, so maybe I need to re-read.

I'll have a ook.

Really???

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by carver9
How much did the spear weigh? It's not about weight, but durability, that's what is meant by increasing density, she said it then proceeded to change her spear into 3 small forms and attack Hulk, which works by decreasing volume to make things denser.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by carver9
Why did Hulk fall to his knees when he was hit by the spear and couldnt stand?


Not relevant to the topic, the point is spear doesn't get someone with weight of the star.

carver9
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
It's not about weight, but durability, that's what is meant by increasing density, she said it then proceeded to change her spear into 3 small forms and attack Hulk, which works by decreasing volume to make things denser.

You also said Cap and Corvus withstood something Hulk couldnt. With that said, either Cap and Corvus didnt withstand the same attack or the attack was different or Cap and Corvus is stronger than Hulk. Your choice.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Really???

To be fair, it is you.

carver9
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Not relevant to the topic, the point is spear doesn't get someone with weight of the star.

It is relevant though because you are denying something that was told to us so since I cant accept the weight that was told to me in the comic AND the writer, you must've read something that told you a different weight.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by carver9
Why did Hulk fall to his knees when he was hit by the spear and couldnt stand? This is not a good question because it parts from the notion that the force of a star is needed in order to put down the Hulk, which goes directly into a circular argument.

MaZeRaIII

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by -Pr-
Going purely by the scans posted in this thread, it looked to me like she was using a different attack on Hulk than she had intended for Cap.

Her dialogue supports that too.

Where's the contradictory evidence?


Nope, it was the exact same attack, her talking about density and applying her was on panel showcased by changing the volume of her spear into 3 small spears with more density because she couldn't catch Hulk with her 1 spear in full form got it? She did the same with Cap and Corvus, plus the energy effects of violet and black glow were present in both Cap and Corvus as well as Hulk.

Her dialogue is getting misintepretated, density manipulation is about changing DURABILITY OF A PERSON/OBJECT, anyone with BASIC comic knowledge knows that, basically she pulled a Vision, she talks then she applies the attacks which is showcased as throwing 3 small spears (smaller distance between atom, better density/durability) into Hulk, the exact same thing she did with Cap and Corvus, it's the exact same attack, no matter how you look at it.

Counter evidence is in regars to the whole weight part with Cap and Corvus being able to tank the specific same attack.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by carver9
It is relevant though because you are denying something that was told to us so since I cant accept the weight that was told to me in the comic AND the writer, you must've read something that told you a different weight.


I am not denying it, denying implies that the instance has legit aspect to apply, which it doesn't, if Cap, Corvus can resist it, lol with their low physicals.

Confirmed by writer? Where is the evidence then, huh.....

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
Funny you should say that, I thought Carver wasn't the one that was in the wrong, so maybe I need to re-read.

I'll have a ook.

Please do. Thanks.

It's the same story all over again; he refuses to read the scans, magically forgets what other members explained to him several times already, everything just so he can misuse a feat he likes.

-Pr-
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Nope, it was the exact same attack, her talking about density and applying her was on panel showcased by changing the volume of her spear into 3 small spears with more density because she couldn't catch Hulk with her 1 spear in full form got it? She did the same with Cap and Corvus, plus the energy effects of violet and black glow were present in both Cap and Corvus as well as Hulk.

Her dialogue is getting misintepretated, density manipulation is about changing DURABILITY OF A PERSON/OBJECT, anyone with BASIC comic knowledge knows that, basically she pulled a Vision, she talks then she applies the attacks which is showcased as throwing 3 small spears (smaller distance between atom, better density/durability) into Hulk, the exact same thing she did with Cap and Corvus, it's the exact same attack, no matter how you look at it.

Counter evidence is in regars to the whole weight part with Cap and Corvus being able to tank the specific same attack.

You're talking like yours is the only interpretation, when it obviously isn't, as evident by the comic which seems to imply something else.

Or do you think that the writer thinks Captain America could survive the weight of a star bearing down on him?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Please do. Thanks.

It's the same story all over again; he refuses to read the scans, magically forgets what other members explained to him several times already, everything just so he can misuse a feat he likes.

Oh, the carver special. Gotcha.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by carver9
You also said Cap and Corvus withstood something Hulk couldnt. With that said, either Cap and Corvus didnt withstand the same attack or the attack was different or Cap and Corvus is stronger than Hulk. Your choice.

The attack was the exact same, only with ignoring the details someone would say otherwise.

I don't care whether Cap or Corvus are stronger or not, that's not my point, my point is the spear doesn't bring the weight of the star, simple as that.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by -Pr-
You're talking like yours is the only interpretation, when it obviously isn't, as evident by the comic which seems to imply something else.

There is nothing to intepretate, when everything is as simple as it gets..

Density Manipulating = changing durability with adding mass and making it bigger or making the object smaller via changing the volume, and guess what the scans show? It shows Proxima making 3 small spears from 1 big spear and throwing them into Hulk, the EXACT SAME THING SHE DID TO CAP AND CORVUS, 3 smalls spears + black energy glow + violet energy glow.

There is nothing in general interpretate, when the basic narrative already tells you what it is.


Originally posted by -Pr-

Or do you think that the writer thinks Captain America could survive the weight of a star bearing down on him?

Sure, it's not as if the weight of the star was merely a hyperbole with no evidence to confirm it's legitimacy, so sorry, but applying writer intent implies you have evidence from writer to back up the claims, so far none of us has that part, so we stick with comics and their narrative.

The whole weight of the star part gets thrown out of the window the moment Cap and Corvus withstood the same attack.

-Pr-
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
There is nothing to intepretate, when everything is as simple as it gets..

Density Manipulating = changing durability with adding mass and making it bigger or making the object smaller via changing the volume, and guess what the scans show? It shows Proxima making 3 small spears from 1 big spear and throwing them into Hulk, the EXACT SAME THING SHE DID TO CAP AND CORVUS, 3 smalls spears + black energy glow + violet energy glow.

There is nothing in general interpretate, when the basic narrative already tells you what it is.




Sure, it's not as if the weight of the star was merely a hyperbole with no evidence to confirm it's legitimacy, so sorry, but applying writer intent implies you have evidence from writer to back up the claims, so far none of us has that part, so we stick with comics and their narrative.

The whole weight of the star part gets thrown out of the window the moment Cap and Corvus withstood the same attack.

Assuming it's the same attack, which the comic suggest it isn't based on her own dialogue.

The simplest answer is generally the most obvious at first glance. She says her next attack is denser. She says the weight of a star is coming down on Hulk. That's two parts of dialogue that suggest it's not the same kind of attack used on Cap.

Just because both attacks are visually very similar doesn't make them identical. That's like saying every Superman punch or Surfer energy blast is the same strength, when it isn't.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
To be fair, it is you.

Nope, it isnt.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by carver9
Nope, it isnt.

Carver. Proxima used the same attack on Monica Rambeau...

When she throws her spear it just causes damages and pain. That's all.

carver9
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Carver. Proxima used the same attack on Monica Rambeau...

When she throws her spear it just causes damages and pain. That's all.

I'm not defining this to you again. The attacks are different... if you disagree, it's ok. I'm ok with you not agreeing with it but just know, I think you are completely wrong. Enjoy!!!

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
Assuming it's the same attack, which the comic suggest it isn't based on her own dialogue.

The simplest answer is generally the most obvious at first glance. She says her next attack is denser. She says the weight of a star is coming down on Hulk. That's two parts of dialogue that suggest it's not the same kind of attack used on Cap.

Just because both attacks are visually very similar doesn't make them identical. That's like saying every Superman punch or Surfer energy blast is the same strength, when it isn't.

thumb up

One Big Mob
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Carver. Proxima used the same attack on Monica Rambeau...

When she throws her spear it just causes damages and pain. That's all. Aren't you up in arms in another thread that MM was at his absolute peak against Sentry, yet Proxima saying her attack only against Hulk carries the weight of the star with it and it doesn't count because other attacks didn't do that?

h1a8
So let me get this straight.
We have multiple theories.
1. Proxima can change the spear's density by will.
2. The spear's density is constant
3. It was a massive weight, but not that of a star (hyperbole).


If 1. is true then it would make sense for her to always have it at max density when throwing it. She would have to be literally stupid not to.

If 2. is true then it makes her not stupid anymore, but we now must question what Glaive meant by "net". If he referred to the spear then 2. is stupid.

If 3. is true then everything makes sense (except her not willing to always use it at its max density).

DarkSaint85
I always saw it as 3, personally.

It's a massive weight, but not a star.

1. Isn't true for your reasoning. I guess it could be possible, though, as Stilt said, not every attack is Goku's greatets Kamehameha. Not ever blast from Thor is his most powerful, Batman doesn't empty his most powerful gadgets in every fight.

2. Definitely can't be true, otherwise Panther, Cap et Al have taken stellar weights as well

carver9
Originally posted by h1a8
So let me get this straight.
We have multiple theories.
1. Proxima can change the spear's density by will.
2. The spear's density is constant
3. It was a massive weight, but not that of a star (hyperbole).


If 1. is true then it would make sense for her to always have it at max density when throwing it. She would have to be literally stupid not to.

If 2. is true then it makes her not stupid anymore, but we now must question what Glaive meant by "net". If he referred to the spear then 2. is stupid.

If 3. is true then everything makes sense (except her not willing to always use it at its max density).

You have to remember, the spear IS a star, an all consuming star. How would he not be lifting the weight of a star when it IS a compressed star?

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I always saw it as 3, personally.

It's a massive weight, but not a star.

1. Isn't true for your reasoning. I guess it could be possible, though, as Stilt said, not every attack is Goku's greatets Kamehameha. Not ever blast from Thor is his most powerful, Batman doesn't empty his most powerful gadgets in every fight.

2. Definitely can't be true, otherwise Panther, Cap et Al have taken stellar weights as well

If it was created from a star, it wouldnt have a choice but to be the weight of a star that was forced on Hulk. How much does this weigh???

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67330/1883301-allstarsuperman29mk.jpg

This key was almost made from the same crap Proxima blade was made from. The difference is, she have to activate hers.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by carver9
You have to remember, the spear IS a star, an all consuming star. How would he not be lifting the weight of a star when it IS a compressed star? Ah for ****'s sake

This isn't a complicated topic. She changed the ****ing weight against Hulk. Real simple like that. "Imo it was hyperbole", doesn't matter. She said it, whether it was hyperbole or not, we know that specific attack was meant to be heavy.

We don't know enough in depth details about how the spear works so we can assume it works by the least contradictory way possible. By being able to do whatever the **** Proxima wants it to do.

And there's no ****ing way a LoB tier pussy like Proxima is dragging around a stellar weight spear and chucking it at lightspeed and what have you.

It splits, it makes nets, it does stuff. Why can't it change weight mid throw and shit?

carver9
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Ah for ****'s sake

This isn't a complicated topic. She changed the ****ing weight against Hulk. Real simple like that. "Imo it was hyperbole", doesn't matter. She said it, whether it was hyperbole or not, we know that specific attack was meant to be heavy.

We don't know enough in depth details about how the spear works so we can assume it works by the least contradictory way possible. By being able to do whatever the **** Proxima wants it to do.

And there's no ****ing way a LoB tier pussy like Proxima is dragging around a stellar weight spear and chucking it at lightspeed and what have you.

It splits, it makes nets, it does stuff. Why can't it change weight mid throw and shit?

Good morning buddy. Nope, it didnt take affect when she threw it. As shown here, the spears didnt drop Hulk when it was in his chest... it only happened when the black ooze started circling his body...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11126/111260040/4890850-9865089673-34750.jpg

He then fell to his knees. It's obviously an activated ability and Thanos blessing her with it pretty much tells us how powerful Thanos is. He doesnt need the weapon to achieve whatever results he is reaching for. When has Thanos ever needed a weapon like that anyways? Also, its pretty got darn powerful, it reverted Hulk back to Banner.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by carver9
Good morning buddy. Nope, it didnt take affect when she threw it. As shown here, the spears didnt drop Hulk when it was in his chest... it only happened when the black ooze started circling his body...

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11126/111260040/4890850-9865089673-34750.jpg

He then fell to his knees. It's obviously an activated ability and Thanos blessing her with it pretty much tells us how powerful Thanos is. He doesnt need the weapon to achieve whatever results he is reaching for. When has Thanos ever needed a weapon like that anyways? Also, its pretty got darn powerful, it reverted Hulk back to Banner. Then the black ooze is the star weight. It doesn't change my point at all.

It was an ability to be activated, not something that is present all the time in the spear. If it is, then she is effortlessly and flawlessly swinging around the weight of a star and it doesn't translate to any of her physical prowess because she's a giant pussy.

You queers are making this a lot more complicated than it is. All that really matters is that whatever was holding Hulk was said to be extremely heavy, which was contrary to any other attack. Otherwise it downplays what she used against Hulk as you can see if this thread considering Cap stood up against a star being spearchucked at him.

All this ****ing head canon when it was stated right there what was happening against Hulk. Good for him, bad for him, I don't give a shit. But you sacks of ass have been arguing specifically about it almost this entire thread.

carver9
thumb up

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by -Pr-
Assuming it's the same attack, which the comic suggest it isn't based on her own dialogue.

Your headcannon is this, comic clearly portrayed it as the exactly the same, from visuals to effects.

Originally posted by -Pr-


The simplest answer is generally the most obvious at first glance. She says her next attack is denser.

Density Manipulation in Marvel means MAKING SOMETHING MORE DURABLE, like when Vision can change his density from being able to phase from anything to being able to tank rockets, do you get it?

When she said so, she was merely using 1 form of spear, in its original form against Hulk, when she said those words she then proceeded to throw spear into 3 lesser spears, less volume of object but more density (ala better durability) against Hulk, she did the exact same thing against Cap and Corvus changin density was showcased as her merely throwing spear and chaning into 3 small spear form, nothing complicated whatsoever.

People are really trying to overcomplicate something that isn't complext at all.

Originally posted by -Pr-


She says the weight of a star is coming down on Hulk. That's two parts of dialogue that suggest it's not the same kind of attack used on Cap.

Not really, the weight of the star is a hyperbole statement in general, what you did here is build argument out of nothing, given the lack of validity of such statement.

Originally posted by -Pr-

Just because both attacks are visually very similar doesn't make them identical. That's like saying every Superman punch or Surfer energy blast is the same strength, when it isn't.

It's not just visual similarity, Proxima did the exact same thing, she threw spear it turned into 3 spears which induced violet and black energy glow, same attack.

Also your analogy doesn't work, since you have no evidence that spear's powers are not automatic when thrown against enemies (ie violet and black energy glow, which is what making the effects, and it was always present).

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Again, you are assuming nothing but headcanon, with no confirmation to yours about grav manipulation, i already explained that DENSER NET means making her spear tough enough to PIERCE Hulk, it has nothing to do with the effects that black energy does to the opponent, never was stated to do, nor showcased, simple as that.
Except it does, making something denser means making something more durable that's the definition of making something more dense, the only logical explanation is that Hulk's tough guy thus it is needed a more durable weapon to pierce him, simple as that.

Why would denser net mean tougher spear? You completely missed the point. Keyword is net. She wanted something strong, something tough, and powerful to hold him down. Something that could blanket him and keep him pinned. Hmmm.. Increased weight, maybe gravity.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Why would denser net mean tougher spear? You completely missed the point. Keyword is net.

Because that's how density manipulation works in comics, or are people now magically forgeting who VISION is and his powers, he changes density to phase through objects or changes it to become tough enough to tank many things.

I missed nothing, you simply don't properly comprehend notions presented here - density manip means making things tougher doesn't mean object becomes heavier or bigger, that depends on context and representation.

In Spear's case, the statement is illustrated as her changing the 1 spear (which couldn't hold Hulk in that form) into 3 small spears that's how her density manipulations is manifested, by changing the volume of object (making it smaller), thus more density.

MASS/WEIGHT remains exactly the same way, the only difference is that since there is lesser volume becasue now there are 3 small spears rather than 1 big one, it is more denser, nothing complicated whatsoever.

Overall she did the exact same thing against Hulk/Corvus.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

She wanted something strong, something tough, and powerful to hold him down. Something that could blanket him and keep him pinned. Hmmm.. Increased weight, maybe gravity.

Wrong, by your logic, Vision would also be gravity manipulator, a bit faulty notions.

Anyways your headcanon aside, this is false, density doesn't change power only durability.

Your logic would be correct in regards to mass, if not the fact her density manipulation is showcasing as lessening volume and creating 3 small spears, rather than bringing more mass, again comic shows it cut and clear.

One Big Mob
Why are you using Vision as an example when he specifically changes his mass?

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Why are you using Vision as an example when he specifically changes his mass?


Because he doesn't do it by the means of GRAVITY MANIPULATION, he is referrenced because to simply denotate that changing density doesn't automatically make one a gravity manipulator.

One Big Mob
I don't think you know what you're talking about.

MaZeRaIII
Sorry, and sincerely no offence intended, but you are not exactly the right person to tell me something in those regards.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Because that's how density manipulation works in comics, or are people now magically forgeting who VISION is and his powers, he changes density to phase through objects or changes it to become tough enough to tank many things.

I missed nothing, you simply don't properly comprehend notions presented here - density manip means making things tougher doesn't mean object becomes heavier or bigger, that depends on context and representation.

In Spear's case, the statement is illustrated as her changing the 1 spear (which couldn't hold Hulk in that form) into 3 small spears that's how her density manipulations is manifested, by changing the volume of object (making it smaller), thus more density.

MASS/WEIGHT remains exactly the same way, the only difference is that since there is lesser volume becasue now there are 3 small spears rather than 1 big one, it is more denser, nothing complicated whatsoever.

Overall she did the exact same thing against Hulk/Corvus.



Wrong, by your logic, Vision would also be gravity manipulator, a bit faulty notions.

Anyways your headcanon aside, this is false, density doesn't change power only durability.

Your logic would be correct in regards to mass, if not the fact her density manipulation is showcasing as lessening volume and creating 3 small spears, rather than bringing more mass, again comic shows it cut and clear.

My friend why are you using this description,
http://www.thepropstore.com.au/img/props/theme/Pirate/Net_Fishing%20Net%20Brown_2m%20x%203m_75.jpg

for this?
http://www.atlantacutlery.com/images/Product/large/throwing-weapons-ax_assegai-spear-w-short-shaft_2631.jpg



And PM is literally describing her attack with the words, "weight of a star". Literally.

You don't use a denser net to stab somebody. U use it to immobilize someone or pin them down

StiltmanFTW
@Maze

Why you want so bad to deny what was said on panel?

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
My friend why are you using this description, for this?

Maybe, because A. She doesn't create nets, it is a metaphor and B. it is HOW IT IS SHOWN IN SCANS.

She talks about density net part, then proceeds to make her SPEAR Into 3 SMALL SPEARS, that is how she MANIFESTS the process, by making volume smaller thus creating 3 small spears, each one more denser/tougher than the original 1 spear, but still retaining the same mass/weight.

Literally nothing complicated here.


Originally posted by celeyhyga17


And PM is literally describing her attack with the words, "weight of a star". Literally.

Yeah, too bad it is hyperbole, guess Cap and Corvus also took on weight of the star too.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

You don't use a denser net to stab somebody. U use it to immobilize someone or pin them down

Too bad Proxima doesn't create nets, her dialogue is directly followed by her making 1 spear into 3 smaller spears, she manifested the density part in that way, i already have explained this countless times already.

One Big Mob
You're using density in comics to say something doesn't actually get heavier. You're using Vision as an example to further your point. Here is one of the first images I found of Vision from a ****ing Google image search
http://i.imgur.com/xvu6QY6.jpg

Gravity manipulation is a red herring though. It really doesn't matter at all in relation to anything said here. Does it take away from the mass? What sort of conclusion are you looking to get from this goalpost move?

The chain of events is this:
They needed a denser net. Proxima says the weight of a star is holding Hulk down. What happens to Vision is completely irrelevant because in the case of Hulk, density had a direct correlation to weight.

You can scream "hyperbole" if you want, and that's fair, but the intent was made that it was HEAVY. How this heaviness was achieved matters little in the grand scheme of things. It didn't actually weigh the weight of a star, the gravity was just so great it FELT like the weight of a star. Oh, great. Changes everything.

Not only that, but how are you going to play the hyperbole card when you're trying to tell us how something works in comics? Tell me again about the established fact of density not being equal to a mass increase based on no proof whatsoever while you deny actual statements and cheapen them to the realm of hyperbole.

By using Vision of all people to prove your point too.



Now I might be off base here because I've only skimmed through very little of this thread. I just know you guys were arguing about it for a few pages. Either way... Vision. laughing out loud

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
@Maze

Why you want so bad to deny what was said on panel?

Denying implies that the instance contained legit aspect, except it factually didn't. So i am not denying anything, merely clearing up the spear doesn't bring weight of the star, given it was just your another hyperbole.

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by One Big Mob
You're using density in comics to say something doesn't actually get heavier.

MISINTEPRETATION of my words i see, i see.

I didn't say things don't get heavier, i said getting heavier/bigger depends on context and representation of specific power, but you would already know this if you actually read my posts properly, but you didn't.

I already explained that my mention of Vision is connected that density manipulationg doesn't make one a gravity manipulator.


Originally posted by One Big Mob


You're using Vision as an example to further your point. Here is one of the first images I found of Vision from a ****ing Google image search

Good, too bad your argument lacks value because you didn't properly read my posts, thus making false arguments.

Originally posted by One Big Mob


Gravity manipulation is a red herring though. It really doesn't matter at all in relation to anything said here.

Well, at least we agree on GM part.

Originally posted by One Big Mob

Does it take away from the density or something? Does it take away from the mass? What sort of conclusion are you looking to get from this goalpost move?

Once again, changing density is not necessary meaning making things get more mass, for example you achieve the same density upgrade effect if you change the volume of objects, making it smaller, but retaining same mass, but with more density as an effect of it.

And guess freacking what Proxima did? After talking about density part, she proceeds to make her 1 spear into 3 small spears, guess what it means - less volume, more density, but same mass regarless.

Originally posted by One Big Mob


The chain of events is this:
They needed a denser net.

Except, she didn't create anything remotely close to being similar net, but whatever.

After she said those words about density, she then proceeded to make her spear into 3 smaller version of it, that's how she manifested density part, is it really that hard to get?


Originally posted by One Big Mob


Proxima says the weight of a star is holding Hulk down.

Sure, too bad the same effect and attack was on Cap and Corvus, thus we know that it is hyperbole, simple as it gets.

Originally posted by One Big Mob


What happens to Vision is completely irrelevant because in the case of Hulk, density had a direct correlation to weight.

Fan-fiction. When she was talking about density all she did was change her spear into 3 smaller version of it, so sorry, but you are wrong here. Since she didn't add mass to her spear, all she did is make the volume smaller, thus we got 3 small spears, but with more density, and of course with the same mass.



Originally posted by One Big Mob


You can scream "hyperbole" if you want, and that's fair, but the intent was made that it was HEAVY.

Headcanon, the intent was simply to damage opponent. Nothing about gravity or other nonsense.

Originally posted by One Big Mob


How this heaviness was achieved matters little in the grand scheme of things. It didn't actually weigh the weight of a star, the gravity was just so great it FELT like the weight of a star. Oh, great. Changes everything.

Again, talking about gravity, when there is ZERO evidence gravity was warped, once again fruitless statements with no facts to back it up.



Originally posted by One Big Mob

Not only that, but how are you going to play the hyperbole card when you're trying to tell us how something works in comics? Tell me again about the established fact of density not being equal to a mass increase based on no proof whatsoever while you deny actual statements and cheapen them to the realm of hyperbole.

Oh....look another example of you unable to understand my posts.

As i said already density boost can be achieved by multiple means, you don't have to get bigger mass for that, you can simply change the VOLUME OF OBJECT BY MAKING IT SMALLER THUS BETTER DENSITY, just like what Proxima did, she made her spear into 3 smaller versions of it, thus chaing the volume of the object by making it smaller, hence greater density.



Originally posted by One Big Mob


By using Vision of all people to prove your point too.

Once again, Vision was used to prove that when he changes density he becomes more durable, as well as that he does it not by bending gravity, it is as if you don't even read posts properly, HMMM..... big grin


Originally posted by One Big Mob


Now I might be off base here because I've only skimmed through very little of this thread. I just know you guys were arguing about it for a few pages. Either way... Vision. laughing out loud

Yeah, this was long.

Either way misintepretation, lol.

DarkSaint85
How do we know the volume of the three smaller Spears was less than the original?

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How do we know the volume of the three smaller Spears was less than the original?

I don't know, maybe because they are SMALLER as well, you had 1 spear which transformed into 3 smaller version of it while Proxima talked about density boost, you achieve that effect, either by getting more mass, or by making volume smaller, and if the volume gets smaller, than usually objects become smaller as well.

StiltmanFTW
"I don't like it, it didn't happen" going for whole 5 pages. Wow.

This feat is really bothering you.

One Big Mob
Wait a second, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed your position actually had some merit. Here it turns out you're saying it got denser because she split the spears into smaller spears and her talking about the weight of the star was just added for zero reason at all?

Am I correct on this?

Also the weight of her original unchanged staff that she carries around is what held Hulk down I guess?

leonidas
Originally posted by One Big Mob

You queers are making this a lot more complicated than it is. All that really matters is that whatever was holding Hulk was said to be extremely heavy, which was contrary to any other attack. Otherwise it downplays what she used against Hulk as you can see if this thread considering Cap stood up against a star being spearchucked at him.

thumb up

leonidas
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Ah for ****'s sake

This isn't a complicated topic. She changed the ****ing weight against Hulk. Real simple like that. "Imo it was hyperbole", doesn't matter. She said it, whether it was hyperbole or not, we know that specific attack was meant to be heavy.

We don't know enough in depth details about how the spear works so we can assume it works by the least contradictory way possible. By being able to do whatever the **** Proxima wants it to do.

And there's no ****ing way a LoB tier pussy like Proxima is dragging around a stellar weight spear and chucking it at lightspeed and what have you.

It splits, it makes nets, it does stuff. Why can't it change weight mid throw and shit?

laughing out loud

and again. thumb up

THIS is the bran i've missed. love

MaZeRaIII
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Wait a second, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed your position actually had some merit. Here it turns out you're saying it got denser because she split the spears into smaller spears and her talking about the weight of the star was just added for zero reason at all?

Am I correct on this?

Yeah, it was simply her boasting about it, nothing much though.

She changed the volume of spear, yep.

Originally posted by One Big Mob

Also the weight of her original unchanged staff that she carries around is what held Hulk down I guess?

Not the staff, but the violet and black energy.

The density part was merely to make it durable enough to pierce Hulk, simple.

One Big Mob
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
Yeah, it was simply her boasting about it, nothing much though.

She changed the volume of spear, yep.



Not the staff, but the violet and black energy.

The density part was merely to make it durable enough to pierce Hulk, simple. Let's simplify this then.

But the violet black energy was said to be the weight of a star holding him down.

So what do we conclude from that? Naturally we conclude it has SOMETHING to do with weight, no? It wasn't said that purple drink african american energy was holding Hulk down, it said that WEIGHT was holding Hulk down.

"Hyperbole, Cap and Corvus"

Ok, but in Hulk's case again, weight was specifically said to be holding him down. How do you explain that?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
The density part was merely to make it durable enough to pierce Hulk, simple.

So it's a pure coincidence she mentions the weight of the star pressing on him on the very next page?

C'mon...

leonidas
well, were it the ACTUAL weight of a star, hulk would have been driven straight through the earth, were it the ACTUAL weight of a star, we'd have seen gravity around hulk being affected--dramatically. soooo.... we could use the "it's comicszzz!1!" argument, but that can be used for everything. not sure what the deal is with just saying it was REALLY heavy. /shrug

celeyhyga17
Could be. It could also be a localized thing that affected just the area he was occupying and buffers that prevented the general area from being wrecked.

leonidas
yeah, but see the gymnastics necessary to make things fit the literal description? seems easier to just say it was really heavy. /shrug

One Big Mob
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, but see the gymnastics necessary to make things fit the literal description? seems easier to just say it was really heavy. /shrug It is a lot easier to accept it as true than to do whatever Bazerall is doing.
Carver was also doing some sketchy shit before arriving at his current conclusion.

When you have a BazieCarv showdown, neither side is 100 percent correct. You just have to wade through and use what makes sense to people on that level.


Also, anything heavy enough to hold down Hulk in the first place should have him tumbling through the planet, so a sun needing to do that doesn't exactly work.

Basically, density was coupled with mass in the scene, and whatever was holding down Hulk was incredibly heavy. And that's factoring in that it may be hyperbole. Those are the facts. Denying them makes you look like a public *edit with forgotten space* cock sucker to a group of nuns.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, but see the gymnastics necessary to make things fit the literal description? seems easier to just say it was really heavy. /shrug
My bad. Forgot that a little too much mental gymnastics for your demographic induces nap time.
:P
















Sorry. Low hanging fruit.

-Pr-
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Ah for ****'s sake

This isn't a complicated topic. She changed the ****ing weight against Hulk. Real simple like that. "Imo it was hyperbole", doesn't matter. She said it, whether it was hyperbole or not, we know that specific attack was meant to be heavy.

We don't know enough in depth details about how the spear works so we can assume it works by the least contradictory way possible. By being able to do whatever the **** Proxima wants it to do.

And there's no ****ing way a LoB tier pussy like Proxima is dragging around a stellar weight spear and chucking it at lightspeed and what have you.

It splits, it makes nets, it does stuff. Why can't it change weight mid throw and shit?

Basically this. ^

The discussion is rather pointless. Even if people agree she made it really ****ing heavy, it doesn't mean that the only thing that can get Hulk on his knees is the weight of a star.

Something something truckstop bathroom.

DarkSaint85
Where do I turn?

The left, where no Carver is right, or the right, where Maz isn't?

One Big Mob
Originally posted by -Pr-
Basically this. ^

The discussion is rather pointless. Even if people agree she made it really ****ing heavy, it doesn't mean that the only thing that can get Hulk on his knees is the weight of a star.

Something something truckstop bathroom. Agreed. It'd be a high end feat if completely true.

Within his realm but like everything in comics, not something needed to accomplish similar results. It also incapacitated him as well anyway. Whether he would have eventually broke free or not, it did the job.

carver9
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, but see the gymnastics necessary to make things fit the literal description? seems easier to just say it was really heavy. /shrug

Then you have to look at this from ALL directions like a Celestial standing on Earth (while being the size of a planet) without it crumbling. Bench pressing earth weights while ON earth. Pushing Earth without it crumbling. The temperature from Gladiator heat vision on earth being as hot as the sun. Owen and Beyonder fighting each other in a room hitting with enough power to destroy universes but does nothing to the room. This is pretty simple. Let's not make it harder than what it is. Superman laid a key that weighs a million tons on a rock and the only thing it did was leave a dent mark. No!!!

carver9
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where do I turn?

The left, where no Carver is right, or the right, where Maz isn't?

My presence irritates you (I smile at this), I dont think you'll ever agree with me.

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Where do I turn?

The left, where no Carver is right, or the right, where Maz isn't?

https://media.giphy.com/media/26gJzCca96ocheVZS/giphy.gif

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by MaZeRaIII
I don't know, maybe because they are SMALLER as well, you had 1 spear which transformed into 3 smaller version of it while Proxima talked about density boost, you achieve that effect, either by getting more mass, or by making volume smaller, and if the volume gets smaller, than usually objects become smaller as well.

That's just circular reasoning.
If I take a Lego tower, and split it into it's constituent bricks (i.e. smaller pieces).....I'm not suddenly having a dense Lego brick, lol.

Voltron's lions don't suddenly become denser.

How did it become denser? By PM making it so, due to its funky properties. I mean it can be made of anti photons, after all.

-Pr-
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Agreed. It'd be a high end feat if completely true.

Within his realm but like everything in comics, not something needed to accomplish similar results. It also incapacitated him as well anyway. Whether he would have eventually broke free or not, it did the job.

Yeah. It's still a hell of an attack either way, so it doesn't make anyone look bad. An attack strong enough to hinder the Hulk is nothing to sneeze at.

So how was this discussion even relevant to the thread in the first place?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Could be. It could also be a localized thing that affected just the area he was occupying and buffers that prevented the general area from being wrecked.

thumb up

Similar how Molecule Man's blast capable of wrecking several billion dimensions didn't even bust a wall in his room, lol.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/59756/2318145-274237_moleculeman6_super.jpg

DarkSaint85
@Pr: Carver thumb up

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
thumb up

Similar how Molecule Man's blast capable of wrecking several billion dimensions didn't even bust a wall in his room, lol.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/59756/2318145-274237_moleculeman6_super.jpg
Wow.


Reality was right all along.

Sentry > Molecule Man

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
So how was this discussion even relevant to the thread in the first place?

The feat was mentioned on the first page and Maze's been trying to discredit it for ~6 pages stick out tongue

Get ready for more... to be fair, this is hardly the first thread that got derailed by that particular feat. Whenever it gets mentioned, it always gets nasty.

leonidas
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
My bad. Forgot that a little too much mental gymnastics for your demographic induces nap time.
:P
















Sorry. Low hanging fruit.

nutkick

right in YOUR low hanging fruit. thumb up

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